Podcast Summary: The Charlie Kirk Show

Episode: Debates From the Archive — Charlie on Why College is a Scam
Host: Charlie Kirk
Date: October 23, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Charlie Kirk revisits a spirited debate on American college campuses about the value of higher education. He argues that college in its current form is a "scam" for most students, focusing on the financial burden, the lack of moral and intellectual substance, and the prevalence of left-wing ideology. Challengers—primarily students—push back on his claims, questioning his definitions, evidence, and outlook on education’s broader value. The conversation covers philosophy, the meaning and purpose of education, ethics, and the real-world utility of college degrees.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why College is a Scam (Charlie's Central Argument)

• Financial Burden & Deceptive Promises

  • College is overpriced, delivers little practical value for most, and often fails to prepare graduates for relevant jobs.
  • Kirk says, "College is a scam, everybody. You gotta stop sending your kids to college." (00:17)
  • Highlights the national graduation rate (59%). “Forty-one percent of kids that go to college do not [graduate].” (25:13)
  • Most graduates get jobs not requiring a degree: “Over half...” (25:28)
  • Informed consent is lacking: “Far too often, students are not given informed consent for the debt burden, the time, and unfortunately, the dropout rates...” (29:14)

• Ideological Indoctrination

  • Claims universities are breeding grounds for postmodern relativism, progressive ideology, and intellectual confusion.
  • “College is a scam. And you're a perfect example... to show the intellectual drivel that is caught on a college campus.” (14:35, 14:39)

• Education vs. Indoctrination

  • Distinction between real education and the buffet of “postmodern ideas.”
  • “Education in Latin means to lead forth... I think college should lead you towards the good, the true, and the beautiful.” (04:01–04:26)
  • Complains about mandatory classes in “drivel”: “How many of you are forced to take classes that are a waste of time... every hand goes up.” (30:42)

2. Student Pushback & Counterarguments

• The Value of Exposure to Different Ideas

  • Students argue that college is about encountering new perspectives, developing independent thought, and social growth.
  • “Education right now is the ability to go out and learn different mindsets, to be introduced to different subjects...” (03:11)
  • “That's what college is about. Exposing yourself to different...” (18:28)

• Questioning the "Scam" Definition

  • Students press for rigorous definitions of both “scam” and educational outcomes.
  • “Give me a definition first because you're the one making a claim.” (24:39)
  • “Define value.” (27:18)
  • “Where do they specifically say that you are guaranteed a job?” (29:14)

• Not All Degrees Are the Same

  • Recognition that some fields (medicine, law, STEM) require formal credentials, and college serves a purpose.
  • “You already... So you're agreeing with me, right? You think that it's important that someone has a credential to do an accounting job.” (32:50–32:57)

3. Philosophy, Ethics, and the Purpose of Education

• Defining Good, Truth, and Beauty

  • Kirk’s conservative, classical view: “The good, the true, and the beautiful are the three things that every college student should grapple with.” (04:56)
  • Student is skeptical: “I don't engage with you on the ideas that good, true and beautiful are something that can be defined and something that can be taught.” (05:15)

• Christian Metaphysics vs. Relativism

  • Kirk: “There's an ultimate perfection... a creator who loves you... There is nothing more perfect for good, true or beautiful than that.” (05:42–06:06)
  • Students challenge the objectivity of Kirk’s moral claims: “I think that something like good is... the question of ethics. It's not really a question of education.” (09:51)

• Ethics, Consequences, and Social Norms

  • Kirk sees consequence-based morality as central (“Would you be more or less likely to shoplift if a police officer was next to you?” (12:14)).
  • Student: “But consequences does not determine ethics.” (12:34)

4. Culture War Issues: Gender and Feminism

• What Is a Woman?

  • Kirk repeatedly presses a feminist student to define “woman,” arguing cultural confusion is symptomatic of higher education’s failures.
  • “If you can't tell me what a woman is, and also you're a feminist, shouldn’t you be able to tell me what a woman is?” (21:10–21:20)
  • Kirk: “That civilization cannot answer the question of what is male and female? That civilization will cease to exist.” (19:45)

• Men, Women, and Societal Roles

  • Kirk: “We should open doors for women, for example... We as men have a moral right to stand up for the women in our life against predators, against rapists, against...” (22:00–22:17)
  • Student: “I think that we should protect everyone. If men have duress...” (22:08)

• Postmodernism & Ideological Conflict

  • Kirk bemoans “postmodern drivel” and invokes key theorists: “Do you want to talk about Herbert Marcuse, Jacques Derrida, or Michel Foucault. One-dimensional man... I have read the pantheon of the garbage that you believe.” (23:21–23:31)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful.” — Charlie Kirk (00:07)
• “First rule of communication, don't swear at the person you're talking to. Really?” (34:13)
• “If you go to Harvard, I think you are infected with the worst possible [ideas].” — Charlie Kirk (32:03)
• “You should have the ability [to read feminist writers], should it be elevated and taught in interdisciplinary way and, and treat it as if that's higher education is a different question.” — Charlie Kirk (17:59)
• “For more on many of these stories... and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com” — Charlie Kirk (35:11)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Charlie's Opening Appeal — (00:03–00:59)
  Emphasis on activism, faith, and getting involved.
• First Student Exchange: Education, Value, and College Funding — (01:09–06:32)
• Debate Over the Good, True, and Beautiful — (04:01–07:56)
• Ethics, Consequences, and Religion — (08:09–14:35)
• Gender, Feminism, and Definitions — (17:26–23:39)
• Second Q&A: Is College a Scam? Graduation, Value, Consumer Expectation — (24:04–30:17)
• Credentialism, Wisdom, and Hiring — (31:25–33:35)
• Communication, Tone, and Wrapping Up the Debate — (34:13–35:11)

Tone and Style

• Charlie Kirk: Direct, combative, philosophical yet colloquial; mixes classical references and rhetorical provocations.
• Students: Inquisitive, sometimes defensive, mixing personal experience, skepticism of grand claims, and progressive values.

Final Takeaway

Charlie Kirk lays out a case that, for the overwhelming majority of students, college no longer delivers on its promises—it leaves students in debt, fails to impart timeless virtues, and has become an ideological echo chamber. Students push back by highlighting intangible benefits, the diversity of experiences and learning, and the necessity of credentials for certain fields. The passionate debate underscores a vast divide over the meaning and value of higher education in modern America.