The Charlie Kirk Show

Episode: Debunking the Charlie Smears ft. The Thoughtcrime Team

Date: September 25, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of The Charlie Kirk Show, hosted by executive producer Andrew Colvett with the “Thoughtcrime” crew (Jack Posobiec, Tyler Boyer, Blake Neff), is a pointed response to a surge of online “smears” about Charlie Kirk—many derived from out-of-context clips from their companion show, Thoughtcrime. The team sets out to confront and clarify what Charlie actually said about controversial topics, defend his legacy, and offer necessary context—at times through explicit debunking of viral misquotes, at others by openly reflecting on the intent and meaning behind the original discussions.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Origins and Intent of the "Thoughtcrime" Clips

• Thoughtcrime was created as a space to discuss "verboten" (forbidden) topics in American culture and politics, often with humor and candor.
• As Charlie Kirk's profile grew—especially in the 2024 election—his informal remarks on Thoughtcrime became fodder for critics and were frequently removed from their original, nuanced context.

Quote:
"Most of the clips that ultimately surfaced came on the show called Thoughtcrime, which we would do every Thursday night. ...you're not allowed to have fun anymore in America in 2024."
– Andrew Colvett (00:37)

2. The "DEI Pilots" Viral Clip: Affirmative Action and Meritocracy

The Controversy

• A clip of Charlie saying, “If I see a black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified,” was widely circulated as evidence of racism.

The Context

• The team played the full conversation, showing that the statement was a reaction to United Airlines' CEO stating a goal of 50% of new pilots being women or "people of color," when only 9% of pilot trainees fit that category—implying a likely lowering of standards.
• Charlie and the team argued this policy is anti-meritocracy, not anti-black.

Quotes:
"Charlie was making the point that if you are going to pull 50% of your pilots from 9 or 10% of the population of new pilots, then you're going to have to do something that is not in favor of meritocracy."
— Andrew (09:23)

"Charlie was not saying that he looked at a black pilot...and thought those things. He said he didn't. He said, but if in the future you do X and Y and Z...then I'm going to start asking questions."
– Andrew (11:52)

Timestamp: Major DEI Pilots discussion: 06:34-15:47

3. The "Gun Deaths Are Worth It" Quote

The Controversy

• Critics cited Charlie as saying gun deaths are “worth it” for preserving the Second Amendment, especially following his assassination.

The Context

• Charlie honestly confronted the cost-benefit calculus of liberty, likening it to accepting car accident deaths for freedom of movement.
• He affirmed that tragedies do not change the fundamental logic for the Second Amendment, even after being personally affected.

Quotes:
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of unfortunately some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational."
– Charlie Kirk (21:54)

Timestamp: Main "Gun Deaths" discussion: 21:09-25:22

4. Accusations of Racism and "Anti-Black" Sentiment

Smear: “Black women do not have the brain processing power to be taken seriously.”

• Team debunks this as a flat-out fabrication, explaining the actual context was referencing women (e.g., Joy Reid, Michelle Obama, Ketanji Brown Jackson) who themselves attributed their admissions or success to affirmative action, not to innate ability.
• The critique was of affirmative action and its effects—not of black women’s inherent intelligence.

Quote:
"It's very obvious to us that you were not smart enough to be able to get in on your own."
– Charlie Kirk (from aired clip, 84:54)

Timestamp: Fact check begins: 83:24

5. Criticism of the Civil Rights Act

• The team unpacks Charlie’s critique of the Civil Rights Act as unintentionally birthing a bureaucratic regime (DEI, HR, quotas) that, they argue, now fosters “anti-white weaponization” and undermines meritocracy.
• They cite Christopher Caldwell’s “Age of Entitlement” as an intellectual touchstone behind their views, stressing that criticizing the implementation/common usage of a law is not rejecting its original moral purpose.

Quotes:
"The present reality, not the ideal, the reality of the Civil Rights act and how it's being used is making it harder for us to pursue excellence as a society."
— Charlie Kirk (76:31)

Timestamp: Begins: 75:10

6. The Martin Luther King Jr. “Not a Good Guy” Statement

The Smear

• The claim that Charlie openly dismissed MLK’s legacy as negative, focusing primarily on his personal flaws and later-life radicalism.

The Context

• The team explains that Charlie endorsed MLK's rejection of Jim Crow, praised his earlier calls for colorblindness, but pushed for a more nuanced historical view: acknowledging King's infidelities, leftward drift, and the quasi-religious veneration in modern culture.
• The point: a real hero can be flawed and is not above critique.

Quotes:
"MLK is basically America's national saint figure...and that's what he wanted to confront. It wasn't even MLK is bad—it is MLK is flawed."
– Blake Neff (92:27)

"To treat a lie and to canonize a lie can be problematic. ...Charlie privately said we probably needed him in that time, but to completely sanctify and not deal with the truth ...would be unfair to America."
– Andrew (94:05)

Timestamp: MLK segment begins at 89:30

7. The “Empathy is Bad” Soundbite

The Smear

• Critics circulated a 6-second clip: “I can’t stand the word empathy; actually, I think empathy is a made up new age term that does a lot of damage,” as evidence of sociopathy.

The Context

• Charlie distinguished between empathy (feeling someone else’s emotions as your own) and Christian sympathy/charity (caring about but not being controlled by another’s pain).
• His concern was with “empathy” as a moral cudgel—demanding compliance, not understanding.

Quotes:
“Empathy is a made up new age term that does a lot of damage. ...Sympathy I prefer more than empathy. That’s a separate topic for a different time.”
— Charlie Kirk (44:27)

Timestamp: Empathy explanation 44:47

8. Public Executions/Capital Punishment Controversy

• The team addresses viral claims that Charlie called for “public executions” of political opponents.
• They clarify his views evolved over time, and his support for the death penalty involved due process—never for children, never for “enemies” without trial.
• The “public, televised” discussion referenced state punishment for convicted criminals—not lynching political enemies.

--

9. "Wives, Submit to Your Husbands"

The Smear

• Critics accused Charlie of bigotry and misogyny, highlighting his support for traditional Christian marriage.

The Context

• Charlie (and the team) explain this is orthodox, biblical teaching: husbands are to lead sacrificially; wives support them—not as rivals, but as partners.
• They emphasize Erica Kirk as "the living embodiment" of biblical womanhood—strong, independent, leading the organization in its most difficult time.

Quotes:
“Your wife is not your servant. Your wife is not your employee. Your wife is not your slave. She is your helper. You are not rivals. You are one flesh working together for the glory of God. Amen.”
— Erica Kirk (66:30)

Timestamp: 61:30; Erica’s remarks at 66:02

10. Reactions to Criticism & Media Framing

• The team consistently returns to the theme that critics, political opponents—even prominent figures like Barack Obama—deliberately stripped statements of nuance and context to demonize Charlie, often to justify or excuse violence against him or his movement.

Quotes:
"They know they're misinterpreting it. They are deliberately avoiding...They want an excuse to do what they already want: justify what happened to Charlie or celebrate what happened to Charlie."
— Blake Neff (104:14)

11. On Charlie’s Legacy & Character

• The show closes with a collective defense of Charlie’s integrity, kindness, and deep Christian commitment, emphasizing he was not the figure described in viral smears.

Quotes:
"Charlie was one of the greatest men I've ever known, if not the greatest. He was fundamentally good, decent, true, loyal, generous and kind. ...He was a good Christian man who loved his wife and loved his kids and set a very high bar of behavior and standards for the rest of us. And these are lies."
— Andrew Colvett (104:38)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On DEI: "You can hire for diversity or you can hire for merit. Those are mutually exclusive options, and period." — Blake Neff (11:40)
• On Second Amendment: "We must be real, we must be honest … having an armed citizenry comes with a price. That is a part of liberty." — Blake Neff (23:34)
• On Charlie’s fairness: “He was always so encouraging to, it didn’t matter if you were somebody famous or somebody completely obscure. ...He was always the same, very thoughtful.” — Andrew (59:55)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Thoughtcrime Clip Context & Significance: 00:00–05:30
• DEI Pilots (viral Black pilot remark): 06:34–15:47
• Gun Deaths Worth It (Second Amendment): 21:09–25:22
• Political Violence, Leftist Radicalization: 27:05–38:53
• Cenk Uygur Incident & Accusations of Sexism/Racism: 38:53–44:27
• Empathy vs. Sympathy Controversy: 44:47–46:47
• Capital Punishment/Public Execution Controversy: 51:00–57:26
• Wives Submit/Biblical Marriage: 61:30–66:54, Erica Kirk at 66:02
• Civil Rights Act Critique/Obamaism: 75:10–83:24
• Debunking 'Anti-Black Women' Quote: 83:24–88:36
• MLK Criticism: 89:30–101:11
• Conclusion/Charlie’s Character: 104:14–105:33

Episode Tone and Language

True to "Thoughtcrime," the tone is combative, irreverent, self-deprecating, and direct—there’s plenty of humor as the group teases each other, but the purpose is deadly serious: to robustly defend Charlie Kirk's reputation and set the record straight, with frequent appeals to their personal knowledge of Charlie, original transcripts, and in-depth policy arguments. The religious/intellectual underpinnings are unapologetic, and the group does not shy away from controversy.

Summary prepared for listeners who want the real story behind the smears, with nuance, source quotes, and context—all in the spirit of the show.