Do We Really Need to Argue Against Polygamy? (Yes)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Charlie Kirk Show – "Do We Really Need to Argue Against Polygamy? (Yes)"

Release Date: July 24, 2025

In this compelling episode of The Charlie Kirk Show, host Charlie Kirk navigates through pressing economic developments and delves into the contentious topic of polygamy, presenting a detailed analysis from a conservative and pro-family perspective. The episode features insightful discussions with Joe LaVorgna, Counselor to U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, and Inez Stepman, an anti-feminist and member of the Independent Women's Forum. Here's a comprehensive breakdown of the key segments, discussions, and notable insights from the episode.

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1. Economic Boom Fueled by Capital Expenditures

Guest: Joe LaVorgna

Charlie Kirk opens the episode by highlighting an unexpected yet significant economic surge in the United States, driven primarily by capital expenditures (CapEx). He introduces Joe LaVorgna to shed light on this economic phenomenon.

• CapEx Growth Statistics:

  • First Quarter: Capital expenditures rose at an annualized rate of 24% ([02:09]).
  • Second Quarter Projection: An additional 11% increase is anticipated, bringing the first half's CapEx growth to a 17% annualized rate.
  • Historical Context: LaVorgna compares this growth to the post-pandemic era, noting it as the highest since late 1997, nearly three decades ago ([02:09]).

• Impact on AI Innovation:

  • A pivotal moment features Palantir CEO Sandar Minch praising President Trump's leadership in AI innovation, linking it directly to increased CapEx ([03:35]).
  • Quote: "The AI revolution is an American phenomenon. It is something we are leading in." – Sandar Minch ([03:35]).

• Blue-Collar Job Investments:

  • LaVorgna explains how increased CapEx translates to higher productivity and profits for companies, which in turn leads to higher wages and more employment opportunities for blue-collar workers ([04:51]).
  • Quote: "Real wages are up 1.2%. The only time it's been faster was under Trump 1.0." – Joe LaVorgna ([04:51]).

• Future Projections:

  • Anticipation of sustained economic growth at 3% or higher in the second half of the year, with long-term benefits including higher living standards and wages ([09:37]).

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2. Strategic Trade Deals and Foreign Investments

Guest: Joe LaVorgna

The discussion transitions to the strategic trade deals that are pivotal in maintaining America's competitive edge.

• Key Trade Agreements:

  • Japan: A landmark deal involving 15% reciprocal tariffs and a commitment from Japan to invest $550 billion into the U.S., with a 90% profit retention for the U.S. and 10% returning to Japan ([12:05]).
  • Philippines and Indonesia: Additional trade deals enhancing bilateral investments and reducing regulatory barriers.

• Reasons for U.S. Investment Appeal:

  • Low Corporate Tax Rates: The U.S. offers some of the lowest corporate tax rates globally, making it an attractive destination for foreign investment ([07:41]).
  • Pro-Business Regulations: Streamlined permitting processes facilitate faster establishment and expansion of businesses ([07:41]).
  • Abundant Energy Resources: Availability of cheap and abundant energy supports large-scale industrial operations like data centers and manufacturing plants ([07:41]).

• Impact on Local Communities:

  • Investment influx leads to manufacturing plant establishments, creating jobs in rural areas and revitalizing forgotten parts of the country.
  • Quote: "President Trump has made sure that illegal immigration has been put to a halt and you're going to pay Americans." – Joe LaVorgna ([15:35]).

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3. Capital Expenditures as a Catalyst for the Working Class

Charlie Kirk emphasizes how CapEx not only boosts the economy but directly benefits the working class. The discussions highlight the interconnectedness of tax policies, trade agreements, and technological advancements in fostering an inclusive economic environment.

• Full Expensing Policies:

  • Companies can fully deduct expenses related to building plants or data centers, encouraging investment in innovative and AI-driven industries ([04:51]).

• Economic Resilience:

  • By fostering a business-friendly environment, the U.S. ensures sustained economic resilience and growth, positioning itself as a leader in the global market ([07:41]).

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4. The Debate on Polygamy and Modern Relationship Dynamics

Guest: Inez Stepman

Transitioning from economic discussions, Charlie introduces Inez Stepman to address the provocative topic of polygamy and its implications on modern society.

• Rise of Polygamist Sentiments:

  • Online movements suggest that young men should adopt polygamy as a response to frustrations with no-fault divorce and perceived failures in the current monogamous framework ([19:35]).

• Inez Stepman's Argument Against Polygamy:

  • Historical Incompatibility: Polygamy thrived in pre-civilized societies but proved incompatible with modern civilized life due to its reliance on constant warfare and demographic instability ([21:09]).
  • Mathematical Imbalance: Polygamy inherently creates a surplus of unattached men, leading to social unrest and potential conflicts ([21:09]).
  • Cultural and Anthropological Concerns: Modern societies prioritize wealth building and technological advancement, which are hindered by the instability introduced by widespread polygamy ([21:09]).

• Current Relationship Challenges:

  • Dating Market Imbalances: Both men and women face difficulties in finding compatible partners due to shifting societal expectations and personal standards ([24:14]).
  • Impact of Technology: Increased reliance on digital communication diminishes in-person social skills, exacerbating relationship issues ([24:45]).
  • Health Factors: The obesity crisis affects women's attractiveness more significantly, contributing to dissatisfaction in the dating market ([24:20]).

• Conservative Movement's Role:

  • Stepman urges the conservative movement to address structural issues such as bias in family courts and the incentives within marriage laws to support stable, monogamous relationships ([33:00]).
  • Emphasis on legal reforms and cultural shifts to reinforce the institution of marriage as the foundation of a successful society ([33:28]).

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5. Concluding Insights and Call to Action

As the episode draws to a close, Charlie Kirk encapsulates the urgent need to address both economic opportunities and societal challenges.

• Economic Prosperity:

  • The CapEx boom and strategic trade deals signify a golden era for the U.S., promising sustained economic growth and job creation ([10:39]).

• Social Stability:

  • Addressing relationship dynamics and reinforcing the institution of marriage are crucial for preventing a civilizational collapse and ensuring societal harmony ([28:20]).

• Call to Action:

  • Kirk encourages listeners to engage with Turning Point USA and partake in initiatives that support economic and social resilience ([35:42]).

• Final Statements:

  • Guests Joe LaVorgna and Inez Stepman reiterate the importance of proactive policies and cultural reforms to sustain America's prosperity and social fabric ([35:50]-[35:54]).

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Joe LaVorgna on CapEx Growth:

  "They are virtually the same. Unfortunately, through the bulk of time and data go back to the 1960s, people saw real wage declines, not even increases, but declines." ([04:51])

• Palantir CEO on AI Leadership:

  "The AI revolution is an American phenomenon. It is something we are leading in." ([03:35])

• Inez Stepman on Polygamy's Incompatibility:

  "Polygamy has a math problem... you get a lot of restless young men, and that causes social problems." ([21:09])

• Charlie Kirk on Societal Issues:

  "We are seeing a civilizational potential collapse. We don't solve this." ([28:20])

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The Charlie Kirk Show adeptly intertwines discussions on economic prosperity with critical social issues, presenting a holistic view of the current American landscape. Through expert insights and passionate discourse, Kirk and his guests advocate for policies and cultural shifts that aim to sustain economic growth and reinforce societal stability.

For further engagement and to support the initiatives discussed, listeners are encouraged to visit Turning Point USA and participate in building a resilient and prosperous America.

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here live from the Bitcoin.com studio. What is feminism and why should we be against it? And as Stetman joins the show to discuss the argument against polygamy, believe it or not, we have to make that argument today. And then what if I told you there was an economic boom happening in America? It's called the Cap X boom and we talk about the positive news that's happening here in America. Email us as always freedomarliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast. That is the Charlie Kirk show podcast page. And as always, you guys can get involved with turning point [e-mail] that is tpusa.com Buckle up, everybody. Here we go.

[Joe LaVorgna]

Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

[Inez Stepman]

Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are.

[Charlie Kirk]

Lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

[Scott Besant]

I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.

[Charlie Kirk]

We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold investments@noblegold investments.com that is noblegold investments.com it's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegoldinvestments.com there's record amount of money being invested in the country right now. You didn't hear that in the mainstream media. You didn't hear that on your local newspaper. But do you know that capital expenditures or capex, it's a very important data point on how much companies are investing in America. Joining us now is Joe LaVorgna, counselor to the U.S. treasury Secretary Scott Besant. Joe, great to see you. Thank you so much. Tell us about the successes that we are seeing with capital expenditures in this country right now.

[Joe LaVorgna]

Yeah, you led with a nice lead in and that is if you look at the capital expenditures, essentially what businesses are spending to run their businesses more efficiently, to run it better. Those capital expenditures in the official government data rose at a 24% annualized rate in the first quarter. That's obviously a huge number. And then we have figures from the Federal Reserve that suggest that in the second quarter those same government numbers, when they become official Next week should show another 11% increase. That would bring first half capital expenditures, capital outlays, Capex, as it's known, to a 17% annualized rate. That would be the fastest two quarter gain excluding the pandemic since late 1997, which, think about it's almost 30 years ago we had gains of this magnitude. And that, of course, Charlie, was before the one big beautiful bill was signed. So it's a really remarkable story that people aren't aware of.

[Charlie Kirk]

They are not. Let's play cut 3. 332 here. I had our team get this. It's, it's the Palantir CEO San Carr praising President Trump's leadership in AI innovation, which is directly tied to capital expenditures. So if we want to win the AI race, we actually want people to invest capital in this country, not Otherwise. Play cut 332, please.

[San Carr]

Well, I, you could say our adversary, China, they're, they're kind of the best at long range planning. They have systematically worked over 40 years to invest against our weaknesses. But, you know, the one thing they could not see coming is the AI revolution, because even we could not see it coming. The AI revolution is an American phenomenon. It is something we are leading in. As the President said, we can't take that for granted. We have to keep up the pace, as the President's doing and as our industry is doing. But the real opportunity is that AI allows us to give the American workers superpowers. It allows us to compete in a completely asymmetric way. We shouldn't forget, at the dawn of World War II, we had the 17th largest army. We were the underdog by a long shot. And I think American greatness always starts when we're the underdog. When we were the rebels against the redcoats, when we were, when we were starting to build factories In World War II, we're back there again. I would agree with the President that we are the leader in AI. We're not catching up, we're leading.

[Charlie Kirk]

So this AI renaissance is very important. I know you guys are monitoring this at the Treasury Department. What does that also mean for blue collar jobs investment? And can you talk about how capital expenditures actually is a direct investment in the working class? Because when companies invest, workers then have higher wages and more work. Please.

[Joe LaVorgna]

Right. So, Charlie, if you look so far at the first six months of President Trump's term, blue collar workers, these are people who are not the professional managerial class. They're oftentimes unfortunately living paycheck to paycheck. Their real wages, their inflation Adjusted Pay is up 1.2%. The only time it's been faster to start a new administration was Trump 1.0 to 1.3%. They're virtually the same. Unfortunately through the bulk of time and data go back to the 1960s, people saw real wage declines, not even increases, but declines. So already the blue collar boom has occurred. To the extent we get more capital investment, in other words, companies being able to invest in tools, machinery to allow them to produce more, that means higher productivity, higher profits. By definition it means higher wages. And we know from technology, and I certainly now is at the forefront of technical, technological innovation, that when we have these technological booms, they're disinflationary. So that will also tend to lift real wages. But also the middle class tends to benefit quite significantly. We had a little bit of that under Trump 1.0 in his first term when you saw significant increases in median household income and the middle to lower income wage earners did the best. So essentially what the President's doing is he's taking the policies that work well in his first administration and he is accelerating and improving upon them in the second term because there's other parts of the bill, not just the full expense of CapEx, but also Charlie, the full expensing of, of structure. So now you could deduct the building of a plant or a factory that is incredibly novel, it's innovative, it will help on the AI race, it'll help on building digital assets because you need data centers. So all these things are working together and you need people to build it. Those that's going to directly benefit the US worker.

[Charlie Kirk]

Let's play cut 380. This again, this is major blue collar bottom up investment. Play cut 380 please.

[Unknown Speaker]

The capex comeback in full swing. Business investment is surging at the fastest pace since 1997. Equipment production jumping 17% year over year powered by retroactive incentives. In the President's newly signed big beautiful bill, the administration hoping to boost productivity, lift blue collar wages and lay the groundwork for longer term economic growth.

[Charlie Kirk]

So what other components on the Capital X side makes America have a competitive advantage? So can you just walk our audience through how some of these companies, they need to pick what country they're going to have capital expenditures in and why is it now that America is winning that contest, please?

[Joe LaVorgna]

So number one, Charlie, we start with the Tax Cuts and jobs act of 2017. You've got a significant cut in the corporate tax rate. Corporate tax rates is one of the lowest in the world. We'd Love to see it lower, but it's one of the lowest in the world. So you've got that. That now is permanent. You've got pro business regulation. The President trying to shorten the time with which it takes to build something because the permitting process has gotten out of control. You want to do AI you want to have to be the crypto country of the world, the dominant driver. Well, you need data centers. How do you have data centers? We need data centers. You got to power them. You got to power that with energy. You need cheap and abundant energy. The US has that. So you've got a very friendly business environment. You've got low corporate tax rates, you've got cheap and abundant energy. You're getting tax credits to be here. If you're building a plant or you're investing in Capex, I mean, it's across the board where you want to bring your money here. And the tariff in addition is an added incentive to do it. So this is why you're seeing the President announce all these countries wanting to invest directly in the US By Secretary Bess has been working so hard to get these trade deals through. We're now reaping the early stage of these benefits, which should be multigenerational as they take hold.

[Charlie Kirk]

And so let me just kind of have one final question here, Joe, which is the how much of this is current and is also a lagging indicator? When do you think we'll start to really see the culmination of CapEx? Because some of this, in my opinion, takes 6, 9, 12, 18 months to materialize into macroeconomic data. When do you think we're going to really start to see all of this take hold, where people start to feel the benefits of this capital expenditure bonanza? That's happening in a good way.

[Joe LaVorgna]

So the big gain in Q1 that looks like it continued in Q. Charlie was due to the fact that we have retroactivity to the tax cut. So it's already starting. That's number one. Number two, because President Trump has been able to get the inflation rate down, we're seeing the real wages increase. So it's here, it's in the very, very early innings. And because AI now is so abundant and we know how to use the technology, so that shortened the time period from which you actually get the benefit. So we're not talking like 12, 18 months, we're going to continue to see the benefits. As you get more Capex, we'll see very strong second half numbers. The economy should be growing at 3%, 3% plus and then sometime in the new year, we could talk about how 2025 started this incipient boom. And with these policies in place, there's a very long Runway. And that Runway is going to be higher living standards, higher wages, and Americans are going to feel much richer and healthier because of it.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here. According to the Department of Energy, the risk of blackouts could increase by 10,000% over the next few years. It's because of massive energy demand from AI data centers and an aging, fragile power grid that just can't keep up. I don't know about you, but I don't like the idea of being without power even for a day. That's why I got the grid Dr. 3300 from my patriot supply. It's a powerful solar generator that runs refrigerators, AC units, medical devices, power tools, and anything you need to ride out a blackout. And right now, for their Christmas in July event, they're including over $1,000 in free survival gear with your generator, including an emergency food supply, water filtration, survival tools, and more. You heard that, right. Over a thousand free bucks in gear. Go to my patriotsupply.com promo code, Kirk. That is my patriotsupply.com Promo Code, Kirk. Talking about trade deals and investment. So much good stuff happening. It's important that we emphasize that it's Joe LaVorgna, Counselor to Secretary Scott Besant. Joe, congratulations on the major trade deals. Well, the President deserves congratulations, but you also get congratulations because your team has been working very hard on it. We had a landmark day yesterday. The Philippines and Japan. Japan is our number one foreign investor. They're our fifth largest trading partner. Take a little victory lap and explain to the audience what happened yesterday.

[Joe LaVorgna]

Well, the. The President, with the help of Secretary Besson, Ambassador Greer and Secretary Lutnick, worked on an historic deal where there's a 15% reciprocal tariff with Japan. They are going to take our agricultural products, make it less onerous as we, as they import products from us, don't have to go through other additional regulatory checks that we're holding back many of the goods that we want to export to them. And at the same time, Japan has committed to, and this is because of President Trump's leadership has committed to investing $550 billion into the U.S. with a 9010 split, 90% of the profits and proceeds taken by the U.S. 10% going back to Japan. So it is an incredibly good deal. It follows on the news of other trade deals this week. Indonesia and the Philippines. And as Secretary Bessant Highlighted in the financial markets clearly now believe this full throttle. The deals are coming through. So everything is working as President Trump had envisioned and his leadership has gotten us these deals. And we're optimistic. We're going to continue to make progress.

[Charlie Kirk]

I want to just put 383 up on screen. It shows that President Trump upselled Japan from a $400 billion investment to a $500 billion investment. That's all tied into capital expenditures. Can you just walk through somebody living right now in Marshallton, Iowa, or someone that's living in Butler, Pennsylvania, or someone that is in a rural area where factories are starting to come back? What does this mean for forgotten parts of the country? That President Donald Trump is a phenomenal salesman for America? Please, Joe, tell us.

[Joe LaVorgna]

Yep. So, so, Charlie, what it means is, is that Japan, it's not just Japan, many other countries have announced their intention to bring capital, bring money into the US that money is going to invest in projects that people want to be in that these foreigners want to be in. It could be cryptocurrencies, the creation of digital assets, which you need to mine those assets. So it's building a data centers. It could be automobiles because again, there's tariffs. Those tariffs are designed to encourage people to not sell into the US Rather invest in the US So it's a whole range of potential different industries and products that people want to come into the US because the US Is the largest economy in the world. We're the biggest consumer in the world. We're the wealthiest consumer in the world. So there's all these wonderful opportunities that come into the US And President Trump has said, look, we are open for business and we're going to make it so that it is your best reason. It makes the most sense for you to be here. So you have countries like Japan who are committing over half a trillion in capital to build the industries and firms here that they think are going to be additive to the US Economy. The US Worker is going to be a direct benefit of that. So again, we'll get more details as things come out, but this is really fantastic news.

[Charlie Kirk]

It is. And so, for example, that means that Toyota might build more manufacturing plants here. That's correct. Japanese. So talk about that, how foreign companies can avoid the tariff. And that means that they will build and they'll invest in the United States, which is a benefit for everybody. It's a benefit for welders, electricians and plumbers and accountants, please. Right.

[Joe LaVorgna]

That's right. Well, Secretary Bessus from South Carolina, BMW has many plants there, they got plants elsewhere. And those are jobs, those are high paying jobs that, that Americans are, that they're working at. They're working at these places. So as more countries consider, like, look, we've got this tariff, maybe it makes more sense. Instead of selling into the US and paying this tariff, maybe we should relocate to the US to take advantage of its low corporate tax rates, its investment incentives, it's high quality workforce. And this is important, it's cheap and abundant energy. Because whenever you're going to make something, Charlie, you need an input. You need energy to power that. And in many places in the world, energy costs are incredibly high, especially in Europe. Why would you want to operate there? Bring your business to the U.S. we're open. It's the golden age, the golden era, as President Trump says. And you got to employ people. Who are you going to employ? Where are you going to employ Americans? Because the president has made sure that illegal immigration has been put to a halt and you're going to pay Americans. And as Secretary Besson has said, because there's now there, there isn't any more below or artificially artificial labor supply anymore. You're going to get normal market based wage rates. So your companies here, they're building. And at the same time, the Americans who are here who want to work at a market based wage are going to get it. You're going to see wage wages rise, as Secretary Bess has highlighted.

[Charlie Kirk]

Joe Lavorna, thank you so much for your leadership. Congratulations. Deal with the Philippines. Japan got capex going up. Thank you so much.

[Joe LaVorgna]

Thank you, Charlie.

[Unknown Speaker]

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[Charlie Kirk]

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[Unknown Speaker]

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[Charlie Kirk]

Joining us now is a very smart woman, Inez Stepman. She's a fellow Claremont, let's say troublemaker with me, but Independent Women's Forum and an anti feminist. Wow, that's quite a statement. Inez, great to see you. Thank you for joining us. And as there is a discussion going online and it's a very important topic, I don't want to get into any of the names because I think that will only distract us from the essence and the meat of this. But there are some online that are saying that young men, you should go be a polygamist, have as many sexual partners as you can, don't be restrained by monogamy. I think this is not just unbiblical. I think it's bad and sane and a really terrible idea. Inez, walk our audience through this kind of the growing movement and sentiment of young men that seem to be very, very mad at no fault divorce, which is leading them towards a almost a polygamist aim. And your response to it, INEZ Stepman.

[Inez Stepman]

Well, first, I mean, I've argued against no fault divorce for a decade. I do think it's bad policy. I think it's bad family policy. And you know, actually little, little fun anecdote, my husband and I went to one of the three states in the union to our marriage contract that allows anti no fault like divorce where they have a list of possible grounds for divorce. It really doesn't work that well in law because you can always escape to the next state. But that's part of the issue with the fact that all of our states have moved to a no fault regime. But you know, that's neither here nor there. I don't think that this argument, first of all, it has some truth to it because there is something to the fact that we are by nature not monogamous, that women are hypergamous and that men are, you know, hardwired to try to have as many children as possible with as many women as possible. And this was something that worked relatively well in human societies. In the pre Christian era and before and to some extent after in primitive societies. But it was totally incompatible once societies moved into some kind of civilization. And the reason for that, the reasons for that are anthropological. There's obviously, there's a religious argument against this as a moral argument against it, but there's also a common sense anthropological argument against it. And there's a reason that polygamy, widespread polygamy as opposed to a small minority elite, but widespread polygamy as a system of marriage has basically disappeared. All the societies that practice that, like the Plains Indians, have been essentially defeated, replaced, overwhelmed by societies that didn't.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. So let's dive deeper into that. So we believe monogamy is obviously biblically and morally correct, but it's superior cultural technology. So if young men right now start to engage in widespread polygamy or what they call this red pill culture, and explain that it's not the red pill that we would think of, which is, you know, to believe in conservative or MAGA values, but it's something completely foreign and different. Inez, can you explain that and talk about how polygamy is actually really bad for a culture at large?

[Inez Stepman]

Yeah. I mean, polygamy has a math problem, right? Even if you don't agree that it has a moral problem, you don't agree with the morality that is taught by Christianity, by Judaism, then you still have a math problem at the end of the day. Right. So then the basic math problem is what to do with all of the unattached men who have no wife and no hope of getting a wife and no hope of reproducing or having sex. Right. And those guys tend to get restless and angry. We see this, like on a small scale in our society today, right. As people are not finding a partner or not finding a girlfriend, a wife. Right. You see that there's unrest there, some of it mitigated by the soma drugs of pornography or just doom scrolling online. But still, it causes social problems. Now, imagine flipping those numbers. You have an 80% incel culture, for example. What happens is there's a lot of restless young men. And in times when societies were going to war, when there was a war season, frankly, a lot of the young men were just dying, right? So a smaller and smaller number of men were making it through that gauntlet of constant warfare and then establishing themselves in, let's say, a plains Indian tribe, in a position where he would be permitted by society and attractive enough to women to take a wife and then another wife and then another wife. Right. But you can see how very quickly, if your entire civilization depends on warfare, which is very much true about the Plains Indians, depended on this constant seasonal warfare. That doesn't leave a lot of room for building things. That doesn't leave a lot of room for actually applying labor as opposed to defense in a war. Applying it to, you know, butter. Right. The traditional distinction between guns and butter, to applying it to, you know, learning to cultivate. Right. To building wealth and being able to defend it against constant attacks. Right. So that's why a lot of those civilizations were very precarious. They lived very war filled and precarious lives. And by the way, it didn't really contrast some of the other claims, didn't really explode their fertility rate either. Most of those societies had very low fertility rates to the point where they were constantly having to raid other societies for more women in the hopes of saving their tribes from extinction, from demographic extinction. So it is a way that, to some extent a natural way that people have lived throughout the past, but it is not compatible with actually building wealth, technology, all the things, by the way, that, you know, make modern warfare, make you a formidable opponent in modern warfare.

[Unknown Speaker]

So that's.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's an important point because societies that embrace polygamy actually don't. Don't do very well. So why don't you take a step back here, Inez, and explain what an incel is the problems with young men and young female dynamic and relationships right now. Why are so many young men not getting married? Why is this. Why is this even worthy of our time to discuss? And this is even being proposed as a potential alternative. Explain it to our audience. That is not totally in touch with some of the structural issues happening right now.

[Inez Stepman]

Yeah, I mean, look, that's. That's a big question. And I'm sure there are a lot of people with a lot of thoughts about this. You know, the dating discourse is broad and long, but I do think at least part of it is the fact that we've lost touch with the differences between men and women and what men and women look for in a partner. And you see the projection going both directions. Right. You see women complaining. I just. There was a recent viral tweet a couple of weeks ago about a woman saying her friends are just fantastic, amazing catches. And then in describing how they. She thinks that they're amazing catches. Right. She's talking about their master's degrees or the fact that they have really great jobs. And it's not even that those things in themselves are turn offs. I think that can Go sort of too simplistic on, on some of the red pill discourse. But it's that they just don't matter that much to men. And women are just thinking about the things that they would like to see. Ambition, for example, the ability to provide the fact that men and women are looking for different things. So I think there are like two big hits going on in the dating culture in addition to just everybody retreating from an IRL life is one is like just simply the obesity crisis, right? And that hits women's attractiveness more than it hits men because women are not as visually choosing their partners as men are. So it hits women harder than men, even though both men and women are statistically obese. And then on the male side, just lest you think I'm only ragging on women on the male side, the ability to interact charmingly in person, to be funny, to crack a joke, to seem comfortable and confident in company again, both men and women are retreating from that. We spend more time with our phones. We spend more time interacting in an asynchronous manner where you don't have to come up with anything witty on the fly. You can take your time and type out a text, right? That hits all of us, but it hits young men more than women because women just don't really want to be with like a shy, awkward kind of guy. It really is just not one of the things that women are naturally attracted to. And I think when you put both of those two things together, you, you add in, you know, long sexual histories and heartbreak. You add in the fact that people are looking to marry much later. You, you add all those things together and you get something where the sexual market, if you will, where the average person on both sides of the sex divide is less attractive to the opposite sex than they were, let's say, in 1970, where the average woman was younger, hasn't dated around as much, right. Doesn't have as long a sexual history, is slimmer. Right. And is. Is generally not opposed to behaving in a more feminine way or taking on a more feminine role. On the flip side, right? In 1970, you, you, you had a lot of cultural encouragement for men to develop those kinds of social skills, to develop competencies, to feel that would make them feel competent and confident when they were going out and talking to women. Those were things that were kind of instilled in the culture. Not to be too glib about it, but, you know, you'd get stuck in a locker more often, you would get, you would get bullied, and that Might have been painful, but it really did shape people in a way that made them more attractive, on average, the opposite sex. And then, of course, there was a big pay differential between men and women in 1970 in a way that's not true today on the average sort of dating market. So I just. Look, love is individual. I'm not trying to be too didactic about this, but it's still. You can look at the overall dating market and see where, you know, your average woman and your average guy who are out there looking for a partner may be less satisfied with what they find than they would have been 30 or 50 years ago.

[Charlie Kirk]

That is so true. We. This is evidenced by the time I spent with a lot of students at our student Action Summit. And I said to the men, how many of you are upset with the current dating market? They're all, all their hands go up. I said, young ladies, how many you are upset with the current dating market? All their hands go up. And I said, we got a serious problem here. The young women, they want a six foot five, blue eye, hunky hedge fund manager making $2 million a year that will, you know, never cheat on her. Yeah, good luck finding that. And the men, they want something equally as unrealistic. And so we find ourselves at an impasse that has a fertility collapse, a marriage collapse, a dating collapse, and of course social media is harming this. I think feminism is to blame for a lot of it. But I want everyone in the audience to know that this is a, this is a civilizational emergency that's happening in front of our eyes. It is a massive and major issue. Marriage is the foundation of a successful society. Young ladies don't want to get married to their late 20s and early 30s. And then they find out that some of them actually are not, as let me put it this way, or even later, that men want to have younger women, let's just put it that way, without myself getting in too much trouble. We are seeing a civilizational potential collapse. We don't solve this. Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here. Brand new year, brand new opportunities to change the world for the better. It's easier than you might think. You can save babies by providing ultrasounds with preborn. Together with the Sanctity of Human Life Month, we're going to save 35,000 babies to show the world that not only do we believe life is precious, but we're going to do something about it. Your gift of preborn will give a girl the truth about what's happening in her body so that she can make the right choice. What better way to start this new year than to join us to save babies. And $28 a month will save a baby a month all year long. A $15,000 gift will provide a complete ultrasound machine that will save thousands of babies for years and years to come and will also save moms from a lifetime of pain and regret. I am a donor to this organization, and you should be, too. Start this new year by being a hero for life. Call 833-850-2229 or click on the preborn banner at charliekirk.com that is charliekirk.com and click on the preborn banner. I'm a donor. You should be, too. Charliekirk.com Preborn Banner Inez, you describe yourself as an anti feminist. What is feminism, and why are you anti?

[Inez Stepman]

Yeah, it's funny because I've been putting that in my bio for, I don't know, 10 years. 10 years, 15 years now. It's gotten sort of mixed in with the trad wife accounts and some other weird things that I want nothing to do with. But it, it's the definition that I use is the political, economic and cultural equality or social equality of the sexes. I think that's a pretty fair and broad definition of feminism. For one, it's the definition in Merriam Webster dictionary, but it's also the definition that Beyonce used when she put that giant feminist sign behind her. So it's, it has the, I think some broad appeal. And the reason I like that definition is it swoops in a lot of people who think of themselves as more on the right. Right. Or who are conservative. They're like, what's wrong with that? Well, I mean, I think there are really two things wrong with it. One is that it's not possible, and two is that I wouldn't think that it would be desirable. So the differences between men and women are incredibly deep. And the feminist sort of premise, from the very beginning, from the first wave of feminism, you can go back and read Wollstonecraft and the American founding and still see the sort of seed of this idea. And that is that those differences are primarily socially constructed rather than biological and immutable. And I think you've seen the final stop on that train with the trans issue. Right. If we say that when men and women are interchangeable biologically with regard to everything important in life, if they're interchangeable in our relationships, in our careers, in our in society, in our role in the world and in our families, then I don't see why we shouldn't say that those biological exterior differences are also irrelevant and interchangeable. The differences between men and women above the neck, I guess, is the short version is the differences above the neck and in our brains, which are confirmed by decades of science before the academy stepped on doing any of this kind of science, are as significant as the ones that are below the neck, that are obvious and external. These differences are deep, and I simply think that it's better to accept them, to celebrate them, and to use them in a complementary way where men and women can actually feed off of each other's strengths and counter each other's weaknesses and build a more flourishing society together.

[Charlie Kirk]

In closing here, Ines, so what does this look like then, from a conservative movement standpoint? How should we approach this? Because there's a lot of young men that are really upset, they're really jaded, and they're joining the conservative movement in record numbers, which is amazing. How do we handle this as a movement conservatively, to be pro family, but also try to remedy this structural differences between the sexes?

[Inez Stepman]

Yeah, I mean, so I think it's important that we take some of these structural concerns and legal concerns seriously. I'll say that up front before I get to the part that I think young men probably won't like to hear from me, but the part that I think I agree with them on is that it is time for the conservative movement to pick up some of these issues. It is time for us to pay attention to the bias in family courts. It is time for us to think about the incentives that we are building into marriage and to counteract those, both legally and culturally. And I think we're finally at a moment where a lot of people are willing to listen to those kinds of concerns more than they might have 10 years, 20 years ago. Because, I mean, the major problem with the conservative movement, since I've been a part of it for, I don't know, 15 years or something, has been that they've always been chasing the left. Conservatism is just progressivism going the speed limit. Just in this issue, they really have done that. They've chased the left, they've chased the label feminists, they've chased the idea that the right is the real feminists, while, you know, the left is the crazy feminists. And I think we really should stop chasing that train and look at some of the ways in which we built female victimhood and, frankly, power over men into the legal system. And by the way, at the top of that list is things like ensuring due process when there are sexual misconduct allegations on college campuses. Right. Something that Biden was personally involved in as a VP under the Obama administration and stacking that deck against young men in college and something that the Trump administration reversed not once, but now twice. So I do think we should pay attention to more of those issues and take them seriously. That being said, you know, the history of human relations is long and there have been plenty of both material deprivation and cultural, you know, sort of, yes, I guess, like cultural structures that weighed against generations before us. Right. This is not. It's new, but it's not unique. It's not like we are in a totally powerless position over our own lives. And sometimes I feel like we really go into this. Like you have to be able to look at these structures, say they're unfair, and still take agency for your own life and not make yourself miserable in the process.

[Charlie Kirk]

Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us. As always, freedom. Charliekirk.com thanks so much for listening. Listening and God bless.

[Scott Besant]

For more on many of these stories.

[Inez Stepman]

And news you can trust, go to charliekirk.

[Scott Besant]

Com.