Do You Really Need College to Succeed?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: “Do You Really Need College to Succeed?”

The Charlie Kirk Show
Host: Charlie Kirk
Date: April 11, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this spirited episode, Charlie Kirk debates college students in a town-hall style setting, challenging the prevailing narrative that a four-year degree is essential for personal or financial success. Drawing from data, anecdotes, and his own direct experiences, Kirk repeatedly asserts that “college is a scam” for many, arguing the cost, content, and ideological environment of universities make them a poor investment for most young people. Throughout the episode, he fields tough questions from college students and supporters, engaging in a robust, sometimes heated dialogue about the true value—and pitfalls—of higher education in America.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Central Question: Is College a Scam?

• Kirk begins by declaring: "College is a scam, everybody. You gotta stop sending your kids to college." ([00:03])
• His core argument: Most students are forced to take irrelevant, expensive classes, graduate with debt, and still land jobs that didn’t actually require a degree.

2. Student Perspectives and Pushback

• An economics student cites research from the Hamilton Institute, noting, "people who get bachelor degrees over a total lifetime earnings will earn over $1 million more than those who don’t." ([01:17])
• Students argue that college offers opportunities to develop as “writers, artists, architects, engineers”—critical for a well-rounded society.

3. Curriculum and Ideological Indoctrination

• Kirk critiques the curriculum, noting the lack of teaching about economists like Thomas Sowell and Milton Friedman ([02:12]):

  "If you're studying economics and they're not teaching Thomas Sowell, you're not getting an education. You're getting an indoctrination, and you're being scammed." ([02:12])

• He accuses colleges of prioritizing “woke rubbish” over rigorous, balanced perspectives, especially in the liberal arts.

4. The Earnings vs. Debt Dilemma

• Multiple times, Kirk challenges the narrative that college pays off:

  “If you study the liberal arts, even after 10 years, study came out yesterday, 16 lowest paid majors happen to be some of the highest majors that people actually go and study.” ([03:13])

• He highlights that half of college graduates land jobs not requiring a degree and contrasts average graduate earnings (~$61,000/yr) with trades—plumbers and welders often make more without college debt ([15:17], [15:44]).

5. Institutional Design: Customization vs. Compulsion

• Kirk draws a sharp contrast:

  “Every other part of life is all about your own customization... But you come to college and they say you must go take these 3, 4, 5 classes that are very expensive... That sounds like a scam.” ([06:00])

• He criticizes general education and “diversity class” requirements as institutional rent-seeking.

6. Dropout Rates and Systemic Failure

• Kirk: “41% of kids that enter college will not graduate.” ([04:16])
• He disputes that dropout rates are primarily due to student hardship—arguing instead that the institution itself is at fault through lack of value-add and necessary support.

7. The Skills Mismatch & Labor Market Realities

• The show highlights trade and technical careers as under-promoted, pointing out:

  “There are 11 million job openings in this country that pay $75,000 a year, that require six weeks of training... using your hands.” ([08:20])

• Kirk denounces the societal expectation that four-year degrees are necessary, pushing for acceptance of alternatives like trade schools.

8. Employer Preferences Are Shifting

• Kirk lists major employers moving away from requiring degrees, e.g., Walmart, Koch Industries ([12:31]):

  “They end up causing problems because they're super entitled and they're like, oh, what are my pronouns? And they have all this left-wing nonsense...” ([12:36])

• He questions whether college actually builds responsibility and hard work.

9. Debt, Subsidies, and Value Disconnection

• Kirk points to college supporters benefitting from public subsidies:

  “So I’m paying for your college is what you’re saying. My taxes are paying for your college.” ([17:42])

• He argues this detaches students from the real cost/value equation and breeds defensiveness towards criticism of college.

10. The “Rigged Game” and Generational Cynicism

• Ending the debate, Kirk empathizes with the sense of betrayal among young people:

  “If you feel as if there’s a massive amount of injustice in the world... you have been told to do things that are not in your best interest, one of them being having to go to college to succeed... there is a lot of truth to the argument that you, as a young person, have been lied to and misled...” ([28:36])

• He cautions against succumbing to cynicism, urging young people to seek hope and clarity instead.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Curriculum Gaps:
  “If you’re studying economics and they’re not teaching Thomas Sowell, you’re not getting an education. You’re getting an indoctrination, and you’re being scammed.”
  — Charlie Kirk ([02:12])
• On the Compulsory Nature of College Courses:
  “They’re scamming every kid in this audience. They are forcing them to take classes that make them poorer, that take up their time in order to get the credential. That is an institutional scam.”
  — Charlie Kirk ([06:00])
• On Value Proposition:
  “Going $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 into debt... why even go to college at all, if you’re just basically getting a credential that is worth less and less money in the marketplace?”
  — Charlie Kirk ([33:18])
• On College and Political Indoctrination:
  “Angry, bitter, resentful activists that hate the country. That’s not developing. That’s hardening and, and honestly creating a mobilization army for the radical left. That’s what we’ve seen.”
  — Charlie Kirk ([24:48])
• On Employer Preferences:
  “Walmart just got rid of their, even in their corporate level. So you don’t need to go to college. Koch Industries...they said we no longer want kids that have gone to college.”
  — Charlie Kirk ([12:31])
• On the Trades vs. College:
  “There are 11 million job openings in this country that pay $75,000 a year, that require six weeks of training...using your hands.”
  — Charlie Kirk ([08:20])
• On Cynicism vs. Hope:
  “Cynical people do really bad things...Instead I have to go through the process of stopping the cynicism saying, wait a second, what do I believe? What can I do? Actually, hopefully get an optimistic, hopeful message out. Because the politics of cynicism is bad for everybody.”
  — Charlie Kirk ([29:10])

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic/Quote/Exchange | |-----------|---------------------| | 00:03 | Charlie sets the stage on college as a scam, life choices, activism. | | 01:17 | Student questions Charlie's stance, referencing degree-holder lifetime earnings. | | 02:12 | Kirk critiques economics curriculum—absence of free-market thinkers. | | 04:16 | 41% of students drop out—debate over blame (institution vs. individual). | | 06:00 | Kirk on the forced nature of irrelevant college classes. | | 08:20 | Kirk: 11 million well-paid jobs require no college, only short training. | | 10:10 | Critique of forced diversity/DEI classes. | | 12:31 | Rising employer skepticism of college grads; real-world employer examples. | | 15:17 | Average graduate ($61k/yr) vs. plumber/welder ($68–72k/yr) earnings. | | 17:42 | Dispute over college students' use of public funds. | | 21:47 | Kirk restates case: irrelevance and waste of classes, dropout rates. | | 28:36 | Kirk acknowledges generational cynicism and calls for hope. | | 32:31 | “College is a scam”—the value proposition isn't worth the cost. | | 34:07 | Kirk identifies left-wing indoctrination as a core issue with colleges. |

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Final Thoughts and Tone

• The tone is combative, direct, and highly skeptical of mainstream academia.
• Kirk’s argument is unyielding but nuanced in places, making exceptions for highly technical, necessary degrees (engineering, law, medicine).
• While he strongly criticizes the current landscape, he closes with empathy, encouraging hope, self-directed learning, and purposefulness.

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Bottom Line

Charlie Kirk’s episode is a bracing challenge to the collegiate status quo, dismissing the “college for everyone” mantra as both economically faulty and culturally detrimental. He urges students to weigh the true costs, consider alternatives, and not be shamed away from skilled trades or entrepreneurial paths. For Kirk, true success is about contribution, wisdom, and meaning—not merely paper credentials.

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Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro American student organization in the country, fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You gotta stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a Point USA College chapter. Go start a Turning Point USA High School chapter. Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade. Most important decision I ever made in my life. And I encourage you to do the same. Here I am, Lord. Use me. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold investments@noblegold investments.com, that is noblegoldinvestments.com

[Economics Student]

I'm going to keep it short and sweet. I'm just curious about your stance on college as a scam, because I feel like, according to the Hamilton Institute, people who get bachelor degrees over a total lifetime earnings will earn over $1 million more than those who don't. And also, I feel college is an important place for people to, like, go learn valuable life lessons. And also, it's good to have, like, a balanced society because then you're gonna get artists. You're also gonna get architectures, you're gonna get engineers, you're gonna get all sorts of people that we need in society because, like, what's the point in living if we don't have writers or artists, you know? So I just wanted to get your take on that.

[Charlie Kirk]

Question is, do the best writers learn to write in college? Probably not. No. The best writers are gifted writing, and they learn to write by writing. And I would just argue that this kind of holistic view you get. For example, what are you studying? Can I. Can I ask?

[Economics Student]

Economics.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, so what do you think of Thomas Sowell?

[Economics Student]

I actually really like him. I bought his book Basic Economics. He's one of the first economists.

[Charlie Kirk]

Do they teach it here?

[Economics Student]

Not yet, but also.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, so now you prove my point. If you're studying economics and they're not teaching Thomas Sowell, you're not getting an education. You're getting an indoctrination, and you're being scammed. Okay, Milton Friedman. Do they teach Milton Friedman here?

[Economics Student]

No, but I'm aware of him.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, Ludwig von Mises, I'm aware of him. But no Murray Rothbard. Hold on, no FA Hayek, no Frederick Bastiat. No, you're not getting economics education, you're getting an indoctrination. You should know every single. It's not your fault. But what you're paying for or going into debt for is not a real economic education. Those are the people that theorized about free markets, which is a legitimate school of thinking. Monetarism, private property rights. And the fact that you. And not. I'm not criticizing you, criticizing the institution that's failing you, that you don't know what these people believe and you're not being taught that rigorously proves my point that college is a scam.

[Economics Student]

Yeah, but again, I've only been here like a semester and a half, so.

[Charlie Kirk]

But do you know who John Maynard Keynes is?

[Economics Student]

Heard of him? You did read about him a little bit.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, so you write about John Maynard Keynes, but you were Keynes.

[Economics Student]

Yeah, in class. I let him in class.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right, so that's my point, is that they'll teach you Keynes, but they won't teach you One out of the seven people that I mentioned of Bastiat, Hayek, Von Mises, Rothbard, Sole or Friedman, and that's that. That proves my point, which is that it's all demand side, it's all one picture of an economic argument that is not the complete picture of what. Now maybe later on you'll get a supply side, you know, economics teacher here. But this idea that you go to college to kind of get your worldview liberated, yet you get your worldview altered, to be perfectly honest. Secondly, to your point of earnings over a period of time, it matters completely and solely on what you study. If you study the liberal arts, even after 10 years, study came out yesterday, 16 lowest paid majors happen to be some of the highest majors that people actually go and study, which is liberal arts, you know, sociology. God bless people that do that stuff. I suppose, but you're also filled with all of the woke rubbish that is infecting our society.

[Economics Student 2]

All right, I just want to talk to you about that book. It was a good segue.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, did you read it?

[Economics Student 2]

No, but I want your thoughts like face to face. Why do you think college is a skin.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, so half of this audience, if you get a job, will get a job that doesn't require a college degree. 41% of kids that enter college will not graduate. And the vast majority of kids 60 to 70% that go to college, I believe, study things that are completely worthless, meaningless, and don't enrich society at all.

[Economics Student 2]

But is that the fault of the student or the college? Because I looked in the stats for this. It's usually because they either don't have the finances to support themselves going to college or they don't. They have mental health problems that lead them to dropping out, or stress or their family's not supporting them. So is that the fault of college that they pick bad degrees? Is that the fault of the college that they can't support themselves? Right. It's like getting a gym membership and then saying, well, you know, I don't want to actually go work out. It's the fault of the gym.

[Charlie Kirk]

So. Good question. So first, the 41% of kids that drop out. The federal government will fully underwrite any four year college through fafsa, you know that. Through a student loan. Meaning. So if anyone has financial difficulty, that's not really a thing. The federal government will fully grant you your loan to any four year university. Right. So you might have, you might not want to take on that student loan burden. You might not want to take that on, but that's number one. Number two, I can't speak to the mental health issues. I doubt that 41% of the kids that graduate in that number all have mental health issues. But maybe that's the case. I'm not sure. I don't know that number. But let's talk about the institution itself. So everyone in the audience here, how many of you have had to take classes that are a waste of time, that you wish you didn't have to take, that are a waste of money and that every single hand goes up? Look around, look around, look around, look around. They're scamming every kid in this audience. They are forcing them to take classes that make them poorer, that take up their time in order to get the credential. That is a institutional scam. And by the way, every other part of life is all about your own customization, your Netflix account, how you get your burrito bowl from, how you dress, your Amazon cart is you are in charge. But you come to college and they say you must go take these 3, 4, 5 classes that are very expensive, especially for you out of state students, to go further into debt, study things that don't matter, to find jobs that don't exist. That sounds like a scam,

[Economics Student 2]

at least in my personal experience. Right. Like maybe some colleges, I would say,

[Charlie Kirk]

what do you study?

[Economics Student 2]

I'm studying economics and what I would say is that I have a great levity in choices of classes I want to take. Even if, like there's a bunch of general education classes, I have a great flexibility in the class I want to take. It's up to the student if they want to take meaningless classes given their credit limit.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, but I mean, I would just speculate that this school still has specific criteria of classes. Right? Am I correct? Yeah, you have to take a diversity class. That sounds like a scam. They are robbing you to take a diversity class.

[Economics Student 2]

It's actually not what you typically think.

[Charlie Kirk]

I think, I mean, I'm taking. Is it true? Do you guys have to take a diversity class?

[Economics Student 2]

No, no, this is, this is true. This is true.

[Charlie Kirk]

All right, so that's a scam. Like, let's be clear, diversity class scams.

[Economics Student 2]

Can you define what a scam is?

[Charlie Kirk]

When you are, you are getting ripped off of your. With your money, your time, your resources, either beyond what is a market rate or against your will. So I'll give you an example. If you guys want to fly to New York and Spirit Airlines says we're going to charge you $2,500 for a one way ticket, I think we all could agree flying spirit Airlines for $2,500 is a scam. Like you know it when you see it.

[Economics Student 2]

I mean, it depends on how you view the worth of college. Like if you. The federal, the Federal Reserve for San Francisco gave a, released a newsletter discussing the actual finances behind is college actually worth it? And they found that by age 40, you recoup all at the average student,

[Charlie Kirk]

recoups all their costs if they graduate,

[Economics Student 2]

if, if they graduate. And even accounting for that, other economists

[Charlie Kirk]

also stayed no. So that, that's an important study. If you take out the top 10%. That's not the case. So 10% of what? Top 10% of graduates and income earners. So the top 10% end up flourishing with a college degree. The other 90% do not. Do you know that there are 11 million job openings in this country that pay $75,000 a year, that require six weeks of training, that require muscular labor or using your hands. 11 million job openings. Now, a lot of you guys are in college because you've been pushed into college saying that you must get the piece of paper. You might get the piece of paper when there are very good paying jobs. 11 million of them. But either your society, your parents or your own choices are no, I want to go to college. I want to go after that piece of paper. My Contention is that there are way better options out there for a lot of students. Not every student, but almost every. A lot of other students.

[Economics Student 2]

Charlie, I think a part of your core rhetoric, there's actually some real truth there that, like, I think a lot of. There's people who are getting really just pressured to go to college, even if they make poor choices. I'm just saying that even while you're in college, you can make better choices to make yourself.

[Charlie Kirk]

I totally agree. Do you think most people do?

[Economics Student 2]

I know some that are making great choices. I know some of them being terrible.

[Charlie Kirk]

So let's think about this. Why do you think. Let's just say most make terrible choices. Would you say that's the case?

[Economics Student 2]

I'll give you 40 to 60.

[Charlie Kirk]

Why do you think that is? Maybe because the institution incentivizes bad choices. It's easy to coast and still graduate. It's easy just to check the boxes. Right. It's not an institution designed around excellence. It's around. Let's get you through the mill as quickly as possible. Get the piece of paper, pay your bill. Thank you very much.

[Economics Student 2]

But do you think that the actual. The culture around students going to college could change instead around their decision making?

[Charlie Kirk]

I think we need way less kids going to college. The institution itself is so broken, let's be clear. Forced, diversity, classes, dei, all that stuff. It's nonsense. If it was really college, really should be closer to what Hillsdale College is, which is about wisdom, beauty, truth, goodness, not just about job preparedness, but that's. We've lost that completely. If it's about doctors, lawyers, engineers and the skills, of course. But you know that it's way beyond that. I mean, people going to. Not to pick on you, but you're studying economics. That's terrific. That's a good reason to go to college. It's not the best reason, I'll be honest. But it's a good reason, right? I mean, economics is a serious discipline. It's a real science. You know, we need people really rigorously studying that. So

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[College Supporter]

I'd like to disagree with you about college as a scam. Okay, just because there's 50% of people who you say don't need college to get a job, why would it be a scam? There's a social impact about college about on America Colleges, you know, good.

[Charlie Kirk]

The majority of kids that go to college and they graduate have a lower view of America than when they entered. Do you think that's a troubling thing?

[College Supporter]

I think just changing your opinion doesn't really matter too much.

[Charlie Kirk]

Do you think that college teaches responsibility and hard work?

[Economics Student 2]

Sure.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, well, I find that hard to believe. Why is it that employers are more and more not wanting to hire college graduates and they actually want to hire people that didn't go to college?

[College Supporter]

What employers?

[Charlie Kirk]

You can name them out, man. Walmart just got rid of their even in their corporate level. So you don't need to go to college. Koch Industries, one of the largest employers in the country from Georgia Pacific Railroad to Dow Chemical, they said we no longer want kids that have gone to college. They end up causing problems because they're super entitled and they're like, oh, what are my pronouns? And they have all this like left wing nonsense that they've been filled with.

[College Supporter]

Well, then you have engineers, doctors, lawyers, people.

[Charlie Kirk]

Sure, we need that. But that's less than 20% of the people that go to college. Yeah, but college is scamming.

[College Supporter]

To say college is a scam, but 25% of people become great people. No, Lawyers, doctors, engineers.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's not what college currently is though. Again, I, I'm happy to have you read the book College is a scam. I wrote it. I can have a more wordy thing, which is the vast majority of people that go to college are receiving a scam for the money that they're borrowing. Vast majority. Of course there's exceptions. You can make whatever you want with your life. I mean, you could, but I mean, when you enter into an enterprise, you need to know that you are going to college. Let me make more money at the end. How many of you guys have to take classes that are a waste of time that you wish you wouldn't have to Take every single hand. You're being scammed against your will to take classes that make you go further into debt. Why can't you say, I don't want to take this class. Why are you. Why as a customer, you can't you

[College Supporter]

do a differential equation?

[Charlie Kirk]

You what?

[College Supporter]

Can you do a differential equation?

[Charlie Kirk]

Can I do it?

[College Supporter]

Can you explain me the anatomy of a human?

[Charlie Kirk]

Like somewhat off the top line what psychology is? Yes, I do know what psychology can you explain to me? Do you want me to explain psychology?

[College Supporter]

You can't explain it to the depths of a bachelor's degree or a PhD.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, hold on a second. Time out, I've sat here with no notes, no phone and debated people with

[College Supporter]

PhD studies because it's your job.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on. I didn't go to college, man. That's the point is you could do whatever you want without a college degree. You can listen to podcasts, read books.

[College Supporter]

Wasn't able to go to the University of Gattengai.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's literally the reason I can't hear what you said. What'd you say?

[College Supporter]

You know Gauss, right? Mathematician.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes, vaguely. Sure. Okay. Vaguely, yes, vaguely, yeah. Do you know who Mel Freeman is? Do you know who Herbert Marcus is? You know, Thomas Soul is.

[College Supporter]

Do you use a phone?

[Charlie Kirk]

Do you know who Governor Morris is?

[College Supporter]

Well, that's because of gals.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, you don't. So I could do Gotcha too. Like before you try to. University is the reason that everybody.

[College Supporter]

He was able to become so proficient in mathematics.

[Charlie Kirk]

So here.

[College Supporter]

Here's the thing changed the world.

[Charlie Kirk]

The majority of kids that go to college are more depressed than when they answer degree.

[College Supporter]

Are able to perform much better in their field than someone who doesn't.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, then, if that's the question, if that really is true, if college is this amazing accelerant, then why do so many students.

[College Supporter]

I wouldn't say in an accelerate, but if you're looking at a science.

[Charlie Kirk]

Let me finish, man.

[College Supporter]

And you want to accelerate, or have

[Charlie Kirk]

you not done that?

[College Supporter]

You need a degree.

[Charlie Kirk]

All right, let me. Let me make my point. If that's the case, why do half of these kids end up with anywhere between 50 to $100,000 in debt and they end up getting a job that says, oh, sorry, you never needed the degree in the first place. Why is that the case? Tell me.

[College Supporter]

People, on average, once going to the college, make more money.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, that's not true. They end up getting a job. That's only if they graduate. And it depends on the field of study. Do you know the average college graduate now is, is, is getting a job at $61,000 a year. The average plumber after 18 months, $68,000 a year. The average welder, $72,000 a year with peers. The plumber didn't go to college. The plumber went to trader technical school. There's 11 million job openings that do not require a college degree in this country.

[College Supporter]

Plumbers use.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm sorry, what?

[College Supporter]

Who engineered the stuff plumbers use?

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm sure someone here, I mean that someone with a degree saying who designed the airplane for the pilot to fly? I mean someone with a degree that went to college. Pilots go to college. I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying you get rid of the all places of higher learning the way it's currently comprised for you guys the amount of debt you have to go into the class.

[College Supporter]

You say don't get rid of places of higher learning, but then you go on disability.

[Charlie Kirk]

You're interrupting every 15 seconds. You're not debating in good faith because it is a scam. So let me ask you a question. Can you point to other things of American life the last hundred years that have been scams? For example, when someone, they run an advertisement and say buy these pills because you know we're going to make you super muscular and they don't have all the fine print that it might not work and you have to have a monthly subscription or we shut down that business for being.

[College Supporter]

That's a little different though. That's a whole.

[Charlie Kirk]

How is it different? Hold on a second. When you show up to college, they tell you you have to take all these classes that you didn't sign up for. Did they? It said that you're gonna have to take all these different classes. Did they tell you that half of you guys would not ever use your degree when you go into your career? How many guys knew that? You guys knew that when you signed up.

[College Supporter]

Well, college is what you make.

[Charlie Kirk]

You guys are. You guys are willingly participating in the scam. Good for you. The point is this, is that most kids know deep down they're getting ripped up off. The number one thing I hear from people across the country in corporate America, boy, college is a waste of time. Boy, I wish I never would have gone. Now I have $60,000 of debt, $70,000 in debt. I wanted to start a business, but now I don't have the credit to do it. Instead we are wasting our most prized possession, our 18 to 22 year olds to go stick them at many universities when they shouldn't be here in the first place. And it is a failed project. It is making us poorer. It is make. And by the way, just look at the actual numbers over a period of time. Has it worked? Is homeownership now going up for young college graduates?

[College Supporter]

We're going to blame that on college though.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's the.

[College Supporter]

There's a lot of different reasons people are not.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's the most equally applicable thing across the board for a generation.

[College Supporter]

So.

[Charlie Kirk]

And if you look at the average. How much debt do you have to go to school, by the way?

[College Supporter]

None.

[Charlie Kirk]

None. Okay. Wow. Are you on scholarship or.

[College Supporter]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, so who's paying for your college then?

[College Supporter]

Probably the federal government.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, so I'm paying for your college is what you're saying. My taxes are paying for your college. So wait, do you have a you're on grant or what?

[College Supporter]

I'm not going to discuss my college finances.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, now this is really important. This is why you're so defensive of college. This is why you're so forceful, because you don't have to walk around the rest of your life with $100,000 student loan debt.

[College Supporter]

There are plenty of people that have

[Charlie Kirk]

part time go to college. This explains you perfectly. I, the taxpayer, when I write my check to the irs, I'm subsidizing your ability to go to college.

[College Supporter]

Okay, When I write my check to the irs, I also give money for people to go to college.

[Charlie Kirk]

You should have skin in the game. You should and you don't. Right now you are doing a freeloading thing. Of course you should be defensive.

[College Supporter]

I pay taxes. I pay federal taxes, I pay state taxes.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm sure I pay a little bit more than you, but that's a separate issue. But the point is this is that you think you pay anywhere close to the tuition value you get at the school. Probably not.

[College Supporter]

Yeah, probably. I do. It's like 5,000 a semester. It's a lot of money, but you

[Charlie Kirk]

get a lot out of it. Hold on, how much is it to go to school here?

[College Supporter]

Around 5,000.

[Charlie Kirk]

So in state?

[College Supporter]

In state, yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay. That include room and board and tuition?

[Communication Major Student]

No.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, how much does it cost?

[College Supporter]

Room, board, tuition, all of it's around 11,000.

[Charlie Kirk]

11,000 a semester. So you pay $22,000 a year in taxes?

[College Supporter]

No.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, got it. So you're in a tax deficit, which means the US taxpayer is subsidizing your education. That's fine. I'm not faulting you for it. But this is why you're so defensive, is you're detached from the Price, you're detached from the cost. It's easy to be defensive of something you're not paying for.

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[Real Estate Finance Student]

I just was curious about your stance on like college is a scam.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[Real Estate Finance Student]

And I just was curious, you know, why you say that.

[Charlie Kirk]

Let me prove it to you. How many of you have to take classes that are a waste of time that you wish you shouldn't have to take?

[Real Estate Finance Student]

Well, there you go.

[Charlie Kirk]

I rest my case. How many of you guys know at least three people that dropped out that went to this college previously and earlier? Okay. The national graduation rate is 41%. Most people that go to college do not graduate. You guys actually go to a school that has a lot of applicability in the job market outside of some of the majors that are offered but aeronautical engineering, computer engineering, which, you know, go work for Elon Musk and. But so this, this school is actually a little bit more of the exception than it is the rule because I think humanities are largely one of the great wastes of time and kind of societal poisons and cancers that are happening in our society. So yeah, I'm happy to continue.

[Real Estate Finance Student]

So yeah, so what do you recommend an 18 year old dude or a girl to do after high school?

[Charlie Kirk]

Turn up the volume. Can we try? I apologize. Sorry. Yeah, we're gonna try and I will come out there and say hi to you guys in a second. So yeah, and we're go say hi to all of our friends over there. So yeah, what do I, what do I recommend? It all depends on what you want to do. That's the most, the worst thing you can do is enter into a four year, a four year agreement where you have to borrow a bunch of money, try to find your way, go take a bunch of classes that have very little relevancy and next thing you know you end up with a college degree and you end up getting a job that doesn't require a college degree. Here's a fact, half of people that graduate college end up getting a job that does not require a college degree 10 years after they graduate. That is the best argument I have. It goes to show the diploma doesn't actually have, I mean, I mean you're

[Real Estate Finance Student]

looking at engineering students, you're looking at,

[Charlie Kirk]

well, engineering's different, you know, finance students. I qualified that students like that.

[Real Estate Finance Student]

For example, I went to community college for Two years. And, you know, a lot of other people go to community college. You get free community college for two years, then you could transfer over and then two years at a, at a college like Cal Poly or, you know, university. And, you know, the top five paying, you know, jobs out of college are accountants, engineers, teachers.

[Charlie Kirk]

Try to get closer to the mic

[Real Estate Finance Student]

so people can, you know, teachers, engineers, stuff like that. And it's just, you know, and then the guys, the people that are wearing the shirts are actually in college. So I'm just curious, like, but, you

[Charlie Kirk]

know, they know better than I do that it's a scam then.

[Real Estate Finance Student]

I mean, it's just someone like me, you know, I think it just comes down to hard work ethic, you know, Like, I don't understand, like, not everyone's built for the trades. Not everyone's built to go into construction or, you know, work as a painter or whatever they're doing after college.

[Charlie Kirk]

Or mechanic.

[Real Estate Finance Student]

Yeah, exactly. You know, and I just, you know, a large majority of people going into college out of high school, I think it's a good choice for kids because they have four years to develop as a human being versus just jumping into the workforce and making what, 30, 40 grand? And you can't live off that right now.

[Charlie Kirk]

I mean, are those folks over there developing as human beings?

[Real Estate Finance Student]

I mean, I'm not, I'm not, I'm

[Charlie Kirk]

not talking about them, but hold on. I'm talking about, you know, that's what college produces, though. Angry, bitter, resentful activists that hate the country. That's not developing. That's hardening and, and honestly creating a mobilization army for the radical left. That's what we've seen.

[Real Estate Finance Student]

You got your major courses where you're taking. I'm a real estate finance major, so I'm taking classes for real estate finance. I have internships in real estate finance.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's great.

[Real Estate Finance Student]

I'm not going into that field after college. But I'm saying you take classes at college to get a job after college, and most of the universities, you get over 75 grand a year out of college. If you do the route of two years at community college and transfer into a community, into a university, you're able to pay off that debt, which is around 20k, 30k for a school like this. You can go to state school and then you're off to the races.

[Charlie Kirk]

41% don't. So. Because they shouldn't have gone in the

[Real Estate Finance Student]

first place, then what do they do? What do you do after?

[Charlie Kirk]

They never should have gone. I mean, yeah, we have 11 million open trade jobs in this country.

[College Supporter]

Yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

So here's the, here's the thing. People do not want to work with their hands and parents don't want to send their kids to go work with their hands because it's considered to be dirty type labor. 11 million job openings in this country that require just a six month certification, whether it be auto mechanic, right. H Vac, plumber, so on and so forth. And it's not for everybody.

[Real Estate Finance Student]

But I mean, I get what you're saying. It's just like large majority of people in America right now are just lazy. They're not going to be doing that after high school.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, we agree. So does college make you lazy or work make you work harder?

[Real Estate Finance Student]

Makes you work harder? I mean, I worked throughout college.

[Charlie Kirk]

I worked. You are the exception then, because employers are disagreeing. They say we've never seen such lazy, entitled, narcissistic college graduates. In fact, most employers say if you have a college degree, you're put in a different category. They prefer people out of high school. Unless you want to go work for bank of America in a soulless laptop job for the rest of your life and you know, go learn about how men can become pregnant at some hr, you know, department survey, or you use

[Real Estate Finance Student]

your analytical skills that you use in school to get a job or six

[Charlie Kirk]

figures, you don't, you can develop analytical skills outside of college.

[Real Estate Finance Student]

I think, I think you're just, I'm

[Charlie Kirk]

living proof of that.

[Real Estate Finance Student]

I think you're just. Yeah, I mean, I almost dropped out too.

[Charlie Kirk]

And I'm not saying it wasn't, it wasn't the right choice for you. But more times than not, kids are deceived and lied and they have tons of animosity because this school is unique. If you go to UCLA or if you go to UC Berkeley, you're not left with $30,000 in debt. You're left with $130,000 in debt. Right.

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[Charlie Kirk]

If you feel as if there's a massive amount of injustice in the world. There is a lot of truth to the argument that you, as a young person, have been lied to and misled and that you have been told to do things that are not in your best interest, one of them being having to go to college to succeed there. I do not believe that a majority of young people should be going to college. And for fact, I think that college is largely a scam. And I'll prove it to you. How many of you have to take classes that you are forced to take that have no relevancy to your degree or major and you wish you shouldn't have to take? Yeah, every hand goes up, right? And so the idea that just a piece of paper is going to be able to grant you access in society is a highly questionable one at best. And so how many of you know someone that dropped out of college? Raise your hand. Yeah, almost every hand goes up. You're being forced to take classes that really have no relevancy to your future, whatever that might be. And you're also simultaneously then knowing that people are dropping out at a record rate, ask yourself the question, why is this the case? And so. But this is something I want to try to just hopefully find some common ground on, which is the following, which is that if you feel as if kind of the game has been rigged against you as a young person, you're not totally wrong. There is a understandable anger that begins to set in. And I know a lot of you feel this way, as if I've done everything I've been told to do, and I do not get the same shot at the American dream or at flourishing that my parents did. And I will say that we could talk at length about what to do about that. But I think that there is a. There's a critique out there by some conservatives that all young people are lazy and all that. I don't. I don't believe that. I think there's plenty of lazy young people. There's Lazy people in every age group. I don't think that millennials and Gen Z are general, are generally lazy. I think that they've been, they've done everything they've been told to do and now they're looking at their life when they're 25, 26 and 27 and they're like, wait a second, I followed the rules. So my message is understanding that critique. Let's try to turn some of that cynicism into hope, into a country that could be, you know, something you could buy into, something you could do in your own life to actually find meaning and purpose. Because cynical people do really bad things. They do over time. Cynical politics is not good for society. You get very radical political movements when you start to be cynical about everything. And guess what? I have to wrestle with this myself. I'm cynical about a lot. But instead I have to go through the process of stopping the cynicism saying, wait a second, what do I believe? What's the contra I want to live in? What can I do? Actually, hopefully get an optimistic, hopeful message out. Because the politics of cynicism is bad for everybody. If you think things are always constantly falling apart and there's no resolution, there's no way to try to solve it, then by definition what comes next is either going to be an authoritarianism or anarchy. One of the 2 and 1 will lead to authoritarianism. Right? Anarchy does not last. It doesn't. Anarchy happens and then an authoritarian person takes over. And you saw this in the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, when people get hyper cynical about the political process, they're willing to give their political power to a Napoleon or a Vladimir Lenin or whatever. I don't want that. You don't want that either. And so if you're feeling as if the game has been structured against you, I want to just say there's a lot of truth to that argument. And conservatives don't always talk like this. Conservatives will usually say, work harder, study harder, live by the rules. I agree with all those things, by the way. I think there can be a little bit more grit in this generation and all that. But I think it would be unfair and not true to act as if right now a 20 year old at UC Berkeley has the same set of circumstances that someone in the year 2004 had here. It's just not true. And the lack of recognizing that, I think is something that creates even more cynicism and more anger.

[Communication Major Student]

What exactly do you mean by college is a scam?

[Charlie Kirk]

Good question. I wrote a whole book about it, largely the value proposition that you are being offered is not worth the time or the money that many of you are forking over. There's exceptions to that generally. But for example, the vast majority of students that graduate from four year college, they'll end up getting a job if they get a job at all in a, in a career or a job that doesn't require a college degree. So henceforth asking the question, why do they go to college in the first place.

[Communication Major Student]

Okay, now what do you mean about jobs that don't require a college degree?

[Charlie Kirk]

Like working at Starbucks as a barista.

[Communication Major Student]

Okay, so what exactly do you mean by the value proposition not being sufficient for the cost of going to college?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, so I mean, going 30, 40, $50,000 into debt, that's a significant thing. And hopefully if you're going to do that, you're going to be able to prove and have some value for that for that reason. So, for example, there was a study that just came out in the last day, the 16 lowest paying job majors. And the vast majority of those are actually what kids study in college, right? Communications, liberal arts, things of that nature. And so the question is, why even go to college at all if you're just basically getting a credential that is worth less and less money in the marketplace place? Now, if you study engineering, if you study finance, terrific. But the scam also is just beyond the financial value proposition. It's the ideological pollutants that are spread on college campuses and the, let's just say some of the left wing indoctrination that occurs here as well.

[Communication Major Student]

Okay, so moving aside from that red herring there, I myself am a communication major and I am very well aware of the communication majors who just take a four year degree and go into jobs that either don't require a degree

[Charlie Kirk]

or as close to the mic as you can. Is that okay? Thank you. It's okay.

[Communication Major Student]

But anyways, I'm aware of the communication majors who only get a bachelor's degree and if they're lucky, they're only able to get research assistant jobs in communication or not even get a job that requires a degree at all. But would not those who continue on to get masters and doctorates in communication, who get hundreds who get $100,000 a year or $200,000 a year research jobs. Would that not counteract the total economic socioeconomic value of those who just go into college and then end up Starbucks baristas?

[Charlie Kirk]

Potentially, yeah. I mean also master's degrees are expensive, right? PhDs are expensive. So you're looking at least at 150 to $200,000 in debt, minimum. If you're going to do that, and if that's, if that's the path you want to take, so be it. But there are 11 million job openings in the country right now that pay $80,000 or more that don't require a college degree. A of lot 11 million job openings. And I don't think we're always telling our young people, you know, the next generation that these jobs are available to you. It's an expectation that you go to four year college and in fact you're treated and almost considered to be dumb if you don't go to four year university. And I think that's a big mistake. And not to mention the vast majority, 41% of kids that enter college do not graduate. There's something deeply wrong with the system.

[Communication Major Student]

So from what you're telling me though, from what you're telling me though, it sounds more like the problem lies not in college itself, but rather the individual paths that people choose who look at a situation, make the wrong decisions, don't stay in school as long as they need to in order to get the career that they want or they drop

[Charlie Kirk]

out because they don't see the value. They drop out because they don't think it's worth their time. And again, half of this audience, after 10 years, if they get a job, they'll end up getting a job that didn't require them going to college in the first place. Half that sounds like a scam. Why are they here in the first place? Why are they borrowing all this money and spending four years on a university just to go get a job that never would have required them to get the degree or the debt or the four years being spent on campus? Thanks for the time. I appreciate it. Thank you. For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.