Does Putin Want Peace...And What If He Doesn't? ft. Raheem Kassam

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Charlie Kirk Show — "Does Putin Want Peace...And What If He Doesn't?" ft. Raheem Kassam

Release Date: May 28, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Charlie Kirk Show, host Charlie Kirk delves into two pressing global issues: the escalating crisis in South Africa and the ongoing Russia-Ukraine conflict. Joining him are distinguished guests Robert Hersov, a South African businessman, and Raheem Kassam, Editor-in-Chief of TheNationalPulse.com. Through in-depth discussions, the episode explores the socio-political turmoil in South Africa under the African National Congress (ANC) and analyzes President Vladimir Putin's motivations and strategies in the Ukraine war. The conversation is enriched with notable insights, statistics, and direct quotes, providing listeners with a nuanced understanding of these complex international matters.

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Part 1: The South African Crisis — Insights from Robert Hersov

Timestamp: [02:07]

Robert Hersov, a 64-year-old South African businessman and fifth-generation native, provides a critical overview of South Africa's deteriorating socio-economic landscape post-2017. Hersov outlines the decline since the ANC's rise to power in 1994, highlighting significant issues such as:

• Economic Decline and Deindustrialization: Hersov states, "from 2008 until today, our country has gone backwards, has deindustrialized, the economy is falling apart" (02:07).

• Anti-White Legislation and Policies: He emphasizes the introduction of 114 race-based laws targeting white, colored, and Indian populations, including the controversial "expropriation without compensation" act. "Would you invest in a country that had a law expropriation without compensation?" he questions (03:32).

• Threat of Genocide: Hersov warns of potential genocide, citing Donald Trump's use of the term to describe the situation. "There is in process a potential genocide" he asserts (03:59).

• Violence Against Farmers: Highlighting the dire situation for farmers, he mentions that "20% have been tortured and raped" and extrapolates that such violence could potentially affect up to 235,000 American farmers if replicated (06:41).

Timestamp: [07:45]

Charlie Kirk probes further into the racial violence, questioning if white farmers are targeting black individuals or vice versa. Hersov clarifies, "there are no white people hunting down black people. Nothing. It is a one way street" (07:04).

Timestamp: [12:31]

Hersov counters claims of lacking cultural context, asserting, "You're missing nothing. The left wing, the mainstream media believe we deserve it" (12:31). He underscores the role of the ANC and far-left parties in perpetuating economic and social instability.

Key Quotes:

• "We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives." — Charlie Kirk (00:56)
• "Genocide isn't just extermination. There are 10 elements to genocide." — Robert Hersov (03:59)

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Part 2: Russia-Ukraine Conflict — Analysis with Raheem Kassam

Timestamp: [19:00]

Transitioning to the Russia-Ukraine war, Raheem Kassam offers a detailed examination of President Putin's strategies and the broader geopolitical implications. Key points include:

• Putin's Struggle to Secure Peace: Kassam discusses Putin's inability to negotiate peace effectively, stating, "the problem with Putin has right now is he doesn't actually know how to sell peace" (19:00).

• Trump Administration's Approach: He highlights the dual strategy employed by President Trump, combining rhetoric urging Putin to negotiate with economic incentives. "There are weapons in the arsenal of peace here" Kassam notes (19:00).

• NATO Defense Spending: Kassam anticipates European nations increasing their defense budgets from 2% to 5% of GDP, a move that could significantly bolster NATO's stance against Russia (23:32).

• Western Involvement and Its Consequences: He critiques Western policies that may have inadvertently prolonged the conflict, pointing out that despite no desire for involvement, the West remains a pivotal player in brokering peace deals (26:06).

Timestamp: [25:34]

Kassam addresses the potential increase in armaments to Ukraine, questioning the reconciliation of such actions with America's non-interventionist stance. He connects this to broader themes of global hegemony and the responsibilities it entails (25:34).

Key Quotes:

• "There will be no further concessions. Where you land now is where you land after any given peace deal." — Raheem Kassam (21:40)
• "Look, the Russian mentality ... doesn't have democratic institutions like we do." — Raheem Kassam (35:12)

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Conclusion and Call to Action

As the episode wraps up, both guests emphasize the need for American awareness and intervention in these international crises. Robert Hersov calls for the U.S. government to sanction key figures responsible for perpetuating anti-white legislation in South Africa and to support initiatives that uphold economic freedom and democracy (16:48). Raheem Kassam underscores the importance of strategic diplomacy and increased defense spending to counteract Russia's aggressive maneuvers in Ukraine (27:50).

Charlie Kirk concludes by encouraging listeners to stay informed and involved, reiterating the significance of understanding and addressing these global challenges from a conservative, freedom-oriented perspective.

Final Thoughts:

• "America, thank you for taking notice. We're going to keep the spotlight on the bad guys." — Robert Hersov (16:48)
• "The world is turning to gold. Shouldn't you be looking into doing that, too?" — Charlie Kirk (17:19)

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Notable Advertisements Skipped

The transcript includes promotional segments for Noble Gold Investments and Balance in Nature supplements. Consistent with the summary guidelines, these sections have been excluded to maintain focus on the episode's substantive content.

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Takeaways

• South Africa's Decline: Under the ANC, South Africa faces severe economic downturns, anti-white legislation, and rising racial violence, with potential risks of genocide.

• Russia-Ukraine War Dynamics: Putin's inability to effectively negotiate peace, combined with potential increased NATO defense spending, may alter the war's trajectory. The West's role remains crucial yet contentious.

• American Involvement: Both crises underscore the importance of U.S. awareness and strategic intervention to support democratic values and counteract authoritarian tendencies globally.

This episode serves as a clarion call for listeners to engage with and respond to these international issues, advocating for freedom, economic stability, and peace.

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

Hey everybody. Charlie Kirk here live from the Bitcoin.com studio. What is happening in South Africa? Kill the Boar. An amazing conversation with Robert Herzog. One of the best conversations that we have had about what's happening in South Africa. It will blow you away. And then Rahim Kassam on what the heck is Putin doing? We explain. Email us as always freedomarliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast, that is the Charlie Kirk show podcast page. And get involved with Turning Point USA [e-mail] that is tpusa.com Buckle up everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

[Rahim Kassam]

I want you to know we are.

[Charlie Kirk]

Lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

[Rahim Kassam]

Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

[Robert Hersov]

I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy, his spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.

[Charlie Kirk]

We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold [e-mail] that is noblegoldinvestments.com it's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegoldinvestments.com what is going on in South Africa? You see, we've been covering what is happening in South Africa, but we're told by the media that it's not happening. But it's good that it is, that we need cultural context to understand the Kill the Boar chant. Well, in South Africa, they're doubling and tripling down on the kill the Boar chat. This is now becoming global and international news. Joining us now is a very accomplished businessman from South Africa, Robert Hersov. Robert, great to see you. Thank you for joining the show. Please introduce yourself and tell us what is happening in South Africa.

[Robert Hersov]

Charlie, thanks for that. An honor to be on your show. So I'm a 64 year old South African businessman, fifth generation, born in South Africa, spent 31 years of my life living in America, Europe and the UK and I went back in 2017 and in 1994, the African National Congress, the ANC, got elected. White minority rule ended and we had democracy. And for the first 14 years, things went really well under Nelson Mandela. But from 2008 until today. Our country has gone backwards, has de industrialized, the economy is falling apart and the ANC government has been introducing anti white racist laws, socialist policies and have basically been breaking and stealing the economy. And the reason they thought they could get away with it is because we had a miracle solution in 1994 with Nelson Mandela and the whole world went, we've solved South Africa, let's go look elsewhere. And the ANC government has used that as an excuse to bring in kleptocracy, inactocracy and break and steal the country. It is in very, very bad shape. And thank you Donald Trump and thank you America for pointing it out.

[Charlie Kirk]

So let's get into the facts here. I am told by the American media that there is no anti white, anti boar, anti farmer sentiment, that no one is actually dying. What is the truth on the ground in South Africa from the race politics that the major South African political parties are demonstrating against South African white farmers since 1994?

[Robert Hersov]

114. 114Anti White, Anti Colored, anti Indian. Colored is a mixture of Black and white. 114 Anti white colored and Indian race based laws have been introduced in our country. 114 of them. There's black economic empowerment which every year gets extended not just from companies doing business with the government, but now any company over 50 people. There is an act that's gone been signed into law called expropriation without compensation. Just think about those words. Would you invest in a country that had a law expropriation without compensation. Not just farms, banks, mines, that watch off your wrist. But worse than that, there's an extreme left party called the Economic Freedom Fighters. Think of the brown shirts in Germany in 1933. These guys wear red berets, 100,000 of them jumping up and down in a football stadium shouting kill the Boer, kill the farmer. One settler, one bullet. And that fellow you're showing on the screen, Julius Malema, in an interview said that they're going to slit the throat of whiteness, but not yet. And the media, the media, the mainstream media try to tell you the American people there isn't a problem. Donald Trump used the word genocide. He said there's a genocide taking place in South Africa. The media threw the hands in the air and said there's no genocide. But genocide isn't just extermination. There are 10 elements to genocide. There's classification, persecution, organization, denial leading to extermination. And with laws like expropriation without compensation and all the pieces being put in place and these crazy guys with the red hats jumping up and down there is in process a potential genocide. And if I may give you one more important statistic, there are so many farmers in South Africa that have been attacked, murdered, and of those murdered, 20% have been tortured and raped. If you take the number of people murdered farmers murdered in South Africa as a percentage of the 30,000 commercial farmers, extrapolate that as a pro rata number to the 3 million commercial farmers in America from 2020 to today, 235,000American farmers would have been killed.

[Charlie Kirk]

Holy crow.

[Robert Hersov]

And you tell me there's nothing happening in South Africa.

[Charlie Kirk]

I mean, that almost takes your breath away when you think about that. Is it black people that are going and hunting down white farmers? And are white farmers hunting down black people or because it would be a national news story if white farmers were going after black individuals, which way is it?

[Robert Hersov]

So it's not just white farmers, the black colored Indian farmers being attacked too. But the vast majority have been white farmers. And it is black terrorists. People desperate for economic reasons, but also racially motivated. You don't torture someone unless there's a hatred of some sort, which is racial. And this Julius Millennis eff jumping up and down saying, kill the Boer. Boer means farmer. One bullet, one settler is inciting that sort of anger and horror. But there are no white people hunting down black people. Nothing. It is a one way street.

[Charlie Kirk]

So the entire world basically came to a standstill and we had massive civil unrest in America with the drug overdose of George Floyd. And now we are seeing in South Africa a pattern where you say if you extrapolate that to America, 235,000American farmers. But we're told that it's not happening. The media is insistent. How many of these white farmers and these Boers now want to come to America? And if things were wonderful, then they would stay there. That is the evidence that they own the land. Their parents were there. Yet how many of them want to actually now come to America?

[Robert Hersov]

So there have been 13 generations of Afrikaners. An Afrikaner is a white African. There have been 13 generations of Afrikaners in South Africa. The first Dutch settlers escaping persecution, Huguenots, came to the Cape in 1652. I think Mayflower was 1620. So if the white Africans are going to get kicked out of Africa, I mean, you want to kick all the Americans out of America? Makes no sense. We're African, we grew up there. It's our country as much as anyone else's. So I think there's not going to be a flood of refugees to America because the Afrikaner South Africans have nowhere to go. And you know, usually when a country's melting down and you can see persecution taking place, it's usually against the Jews and the Jews leave. When the Jews start leaving, you know, a country's in trouble, but they've got to, they can go to Israel. The Afrikaners have got nowhere to go. South Africa is their land. It's my land. Why should we leave? So what Donald Trump's done, which is incredibly intelligent, use the word genocide, which the left hates, it's supposed to be their word they can throw against other people. And genocide, even though extermination is not happening, there is too many elements of it being put in place where it could happen. So there won't be a flood of refugees to America. But I must praise America and Donald Trump for mentioning the word genocide, putting a spotlight on South Africa and offering people refugee status because he's brought the world's spotlight onto the evil that the ANC and the two hard left parties are perpetuating on our country.

[Charlie Kirk]

When I was at Oxford last week, this came up repeatedly. In fact, a young man, we had a 20 minute debate on this where he's like, you know, I don't like the kill the boar thing, but we really should take the land from the white farmer. And I finally got him and I can't wait for this video to be published. I finally got him to say, let me understand, under your moral worldview, you punish the grandkid for the sins of a grandfather. I said, under what dimension is that morally fair? This intergenerational sin, every toxic idea that has infected America is on full display in the race politics of South Africa. From critical race theory, from confiscation of land, from the revenge for the ancestor actions, there's been national focus on eating only the healthiest of foods. And that's great news for balance in nature. Their method of producing a vibrant nutritional supplement is second to none. While so many others use chemicals and additives. Balance in nature is made solely from whole food ingredients, while other methods sacrifice nutritional quality for the sake of profits and volume. Balance in nature's advanced value vacuum cold process involves freeze drying the fruits and veggies into a fine powder, helping to retain as much nutritional value as possible compared to the other inferior methods which cut corners at your expense. Balance of nature packs a nutritional punch and that's the whole reason for taking balance of nature, getting the most nutrition for the sake of your health. Use my discount code Charlie to get 35% off plus free shipping and their money back guarantee. You must use my discount code C H A R L I E. Call them at 800-246-8751 and use discount code Charlie or order online at balance in nature.com use discount code Charlie to get 35% off plus free shipping. Email us. As always, freedom charliekirk.com let's just remind you what they are chanting in South Africa. Play cut 182. Just an entire stadium raving kill the boar with gunshot noises. But Robert, I am told by our media we are lacking cultural context. What am I missing here?

[Robert Hersov]

You're missing nothing. The left wing, the mainstream media believe we deserve it. We deserve it. That's how sick the left is. This is a terrifying situation. The economy's broken. A million South Africans have emigrated, have left. The white population of South Africa is 7%, used to be 20%. And listen to these statistics. Our unemployment rate is 40% and our youth unemployment rate is 60%. So the ANC government has destroyed the economy, broken all the state owned enterprises, and now after 31 years, because they failed, what are they using as the excuse? Colonialism, whiteness, apartheid. And they're trying to do that to reclaim the ability to steal from this country. But on the far left you have these guys, the economic freedom fighters who ought to be jailed and if not jailed, sanctioned. And I'm hoping Donald Trump's administration. And it's very easy. There's a list of 2,348 names of people, hate speech, criminality, anti Americanism that ought to be put on those lists because we can't fix this country internally. We can't shift the country to free markets, democracy, rule of law. It's falling apart. And the west has looked the other way. Britain and Europe have been pathetic thinking soft diplomacy works. And America's been just as bad until the arrival of Donald Trump. So we have one chance only to save this country. And unfortunately, or fortunately, it's coming from you.

[Charlie Kirk]

American left wing race hustlers are very quick to try and distort what is happening in South Africa. Listen carefully, this is the celebration parallax. As the great Michael Anton would say, it's not happening, but it's good that it is.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Placot203 and there is no confiscation of land. Half of South Africa is white owned farms, essentially, even though the white population is only 7%. What the government did do that really caught Trump's eye this year was A measure that would allow the government to. To take land without providing compensation.

[Charlie Kirk]

There is. In one clip, he says there's no confiscation of land. At the end, he says there's a measure that would take land without providing compensation. Talk about. Yeah, well, talk about the ideology of resentment, of race politics, that all of the kill the bore is a result of the envy and the greed of the majority black population that would much rather complain that white people own land rather than trying to make something of their own lives.

[Robert Hersov]

So here's an interesting thing, Charlie, which no one knows. 88% of South Africans are Christians, conservative, and they want the same thing. All South Africans and all Americans want a better life. Safety, security, basic services, opportunity for a job and dignity and a better life for their children. The vast majority of South Africans want that. But it's the ruling party who are the gangsters who want to stay in power and who in a malevolent and pernicious way, want to keep people poor, homeless, hopeless, unemployed and uneducated so that they can bribe them with social grants. 28 million South Africans, 28 million out of 60 survive on social grounds. Our economy is growing at 1%, our population growth at 2%. So it's not the mass of South Africans that are anti whites, or it's the government and these nasty two parties on the left supported by America and the West's pathetic leftist media.

[Charlie Kirk]

Robert, in closing here, what would you say in about 30 seconds is the call to action for America to stand up against what's happening in South Africa?

[Robert Hersov]

America, thank you for taking notice. We're going to keep the spotlight on the bad guys. And incredible congressmen like Ronny Jackson are putting a bill into Congress and into the Senate that would identify the individuals in South Africa that are creating hate speech, anti Americanism, anti Semitism and destroying our economy. Sanction them. Put them on the Magnitsky list, SDN them. Pick on the individuals. But please try not to pick on the country because our economy's on its knees. Thank you, America.

[Charlie Kirk]

Robert, God bless you and thank you for your courage speaking out on this issue. Thank you. The world is waking up to the power of gold. National banks are scrambling to secure it. According to the World Gold Council, central banks added 1,000 tons of gold in 2024, the third straight year of net gold buying. They understand what many investors don't. Gold is real money. Unlike paper currency, gold's value doesn't disappear with inflation, reckless government spending or market crashes. Now, noble Gold investments makes it easy for you to Claim your share. As our new administration works to reverse the economic chaos of the past, market swings are inevitable. When uncertainty rises, you need something solid, something to keep you on the path to financial freedom. Gold can be that foundation. And right now, when you make a qualified investment, Noble Gold will send you a free 10th ounce of a cold coin. Visit noblegold investments.com that's noblegoldinvestments.com the world is turning to gold. Shouldn't you be looking into doing that, too? Joining us now is Raheem Kassam, editor In Chief of TheNationalPulse.com that is TheNationalPulse.com Rahim. Great to see you, Raheem. It's with great confusion that we are looking at what's happening with Russia and Ukraine. President Donald Trump issued a statement and also said on a press gaggle before boarding Air Force One that he's not happy with Putin, saying something has gone wrong with Putin, that Putin is launching missiles into cities in the midst of peace negotiations. What's going on here?

[Robert Hersov]

Yeah.

[Rahim Kassam]

Thanks, Charlie. Thank you for having me. You know, a story that somehow became very close to my heart since I was in the Madan Square during the revolution in the latter days of 2013 and early 2014 and looking, you know, down the pipeline at everything that could have happened there, you know, talking about the necessity really of a war, a hot war, given the EU's expansionism, given NATO's expansionism. And obviously, now we're talking about Vladimir Putin, given his kind of this inability that he finds himself in now to row back from this war. I think we need to go back about 10 days. I think it was when the vice president was in a gaggle on a plane with reporters. And he said, look, the problem with Putin, the problem Putin has right now is he doesn't actually know how to sell peace. He doesn't actually know how to get out of this amongst his own people. And those are the people who are immediately around him, the generals, the oligarchs. But it's also the Russian people. What does he take to the Russian people now and say that he got, that he extracted, that he won from all of this process? And increasingly, as we look at him aging, increasingly as we look at how he is considering this to be perhaps a legacy, that he didn't want a stalemate in Eastern Europe? How does he sell a piece? Now? President Trump has tried, you know, peace for the sake of peace. But now you can see that the tone is shifting. And there are two tacks that he's taking, they're very familiar to people, people who know President Trump. But obviously it leaves the mainstream media scratching its heads because they never listen to him anyway. So the 2 tax are this what we saw this weekend, which is, which is the volley fire of rhetoric to say, you know, hey, sharpen up, we need you at the table. You need to be at the table. What have you done? Lost your mind? And the other one is, is the carrot, right, which is the economic exposure. Welcome Back to the G8. We'll have you all the conferences. We can move past this. We can invest in Russia and have Russia invest in the Western world again. And that is something that we're seeing now, I guess, in the last seven days, that has now become the tactic for the Trump administration. It's certainly been a longer and a harder slog towards peace than I think almost everyone had hoped. But we can still see there are weapons in the arsenal of peace here.

[Charlie Kirk]

So, so I have several thoughts here. Number one, what is Russia and Putin's calculus here? Why are they bombing cities in the midst of these peace negotiations? And do you think Russia wants an end to this war?

[Rahim Kassam]

I'll take the second question first, if you don't mind. I think yes. And I think yes, because the war hasn't extracted for Russia what it necessarily wanted. They didn't go far enough, I think they would say in the, in the early days of the war, they failed to secure the capital, they failed to decapitate the leader of the, the government there at the time. And so this, this slow trudge hasn't really worked out the way they wanted it to work out. Look, I think when you look at the number of lives lost, the amount of money it's cost, there's nothing really that you can take back. And Zelensky has this problem too, by the way. There's nothing really that either of those leaders can take back to their public and say, ah, look, we achieved this, that and the other. For all of this blood that's been shed and for all the money that we've spent on this and for the live livelihood that you have lost in the time being. Right. There isn't that. And so the, the, it's, it's this, it's this weird log jam. Which brings me on to the first part of your question, which is we are actually probably at the most dangerous part of the war since it started because neither of these two men want to give up any face, neither of those two armies want to be the first to be seen to back down. But also they recognize that without bearing further teeth, they can expect no further concessions. My analysis of it is there will be no further concessions. Where you land now is where you land after any given peace deal. I would counsel both of them to just get their pens on paper.

[Charlie Kirk]

And so that's the first thing. So the second part is that is there any appetite within the Trump White House or the broader, let's say, Republican coalition to continue sending armaments to Ukraine if Russia wants to continue brokering this war?

[Rahim Kassam]

Yes, yes, there is, and an increasing one at that as well. And I say that as somebody who fundamentally opposed involvement from the outset, I can see on Capitol Hill, I can see within the defense establishment now, them sort of even coming around to a more, I dare say, Bidenesque approach to dealing with this thing, which is throwing more money and resources after it. It's not their preferred route right now. The preferred route right now, actually, we'll see the fruits of in the next couple of days. What's going to happen in the next couple of days is European nations are going to decide and announce whether or not they're increasing their percentage share of GDP into the NATO budget. Remember, it typically been 2%. Just about nobody was reaching that in the first instance. Trump comes along in 2016, about half of NATO members go, okay, we're, we're going to do it. About half of the half ended up doing it. Now, President Trump has been talking about upping that to 5%. And the rumor mill is such that across Europe, a lot of these governments now are about to say, you know what? Yes, it's high time we do this and announce an increase to 5% GDP spending for defense. That will be, it doesn't sound, it sounds, it sounds like a bureaucratic change. It will actually be somewhat of a sea change, not just for the way that Europeans regard their own defense spending, but actually how external adversaries to Europe, especially Russia, perceive European military capabilities. So that is coming in the next few days. We think we'll see how that goes because that could change a lot.

[Charlie Kirk]

And so just kind of one final question then is if we then start sending more armaments to Ukraine, how do we reconcile that with a lot of our position, which is that we have no business in this war? We've said this for quite a while. I suppose Russia, if they're willing to keep on sacrificing so many of their citizens, do they think they have the west over the barrel because we don't have the might or the fortitude to continue this war?

[Robert Hersov]

Yeah.

[Rahim Kassam]

Well, unfortunately, the role of a global hegemon, whether you like it and accept it or not, doesn't necessarily mean you have a part of every war, but it certainly means you have a part of every piece that is negotiated around the world. I mean, whether it is India and Pakistan, whether it is in Eastern Europe, people will look to the global hegemon for guidance, leadership, and underwriting of any peace deal that is, that is put together. So I take your point entirely. I feel exactly the same way. I don't feel that even my country, the United Kingdom, necessarily has a role to play in that war in that climate. But we have to also remember that it was a lot of European actors, a lot of American actors that led Ukraine into a position where it had no nuclear deterrent, led Ukraine into a position where it thought it was going to be, rolled the red carpet out to join NATO and the European Union. And when those promises didn't come true, when, when. And not that I'm saying they should have come true, but necessarily when they didn't come true, this war broke out as a result. And, and you had a number of leaders that were replaced there. Again, European and American efforts. So, yeah, we don't want to be a part of this, but unfortunately, we're tidying up the, the messes and made by the Obama Biden administration and indeed the previous leadership of the European Union. I think I said it at the beginning of this administration back in, back in January, I said, look, if they don't have a peace settlement on the cards by summer, something drastic is going to change.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. And again, the big fear here is how can you broker peace if one of the sides do not want peace? And if Russia really does not want to have peace and they're willing to keep on throwing hundreds of thousands of their own young men as just a meat grinder, then the question is, what do we in the west actually do? And reconciling that with the question of what is the domestic appetite in America. But one minute remaining, Rahim, does Russia really want all of Ukraine?

[Rahim Kassam]

I think the prevailing consensus within Russia's military establishment and political establishment would say yes. I don't think public sentiment in Russia tracks the same way. This is what I mean when I talk about how, you know, Putin is looking at legacy at this point. He knows he's not going to be in power probably in five to 10 years time, and he probably knows that the country is going in a very different direction after he leaves office. So can he bring the Russian people to him on this issue. I don't think he can. In which case I think he is literally just clinging on to a losing battle here.

[Charlie Kirk]

Now this is a tough one because I think everyone in this audience wants to see an end to this war. We believe that the NATO expansionism and the saber rattling from the west largely provoked Putin did not excuse it, but it provoked him into invading. But now we're in kind of the trenches of this where both sides have become blinded by their own fanaticism, convinced that they need more land as a way to save face. This is a toughie. And then also I want your thoughts. Freedomcharliekirk.com Email me right now freedomarliekirk.com if that happens. Do you support sending more money and more weapons to Ukraine? Email me freedomarlikerk.com why refi is an amazing debt resettlement company. It may not be available in all 50 states. Private student loan debt in America totals about $300 billion, about 45 billion that is labeled as distressed. Go to yrefi.com, why refi is not a debt settlement company but they work with each borrower individually tailoring each loan to each borrower's specific situation. They provide you with a custom loan payment based on your ability to pay. Yrefi is not a debt settlement company and they work with each borrower individually tailoring each loan to that specific situation. Do you have a co borrower? Well, Yrefi can get them released from the loan. You can give mom or dad a break. You don't have to ignore that mountain of student loan statements on your kitchen table anymore. Go to yrefi.com, call 888-yrefi34 or log on to yrefi.com that is yrefy.com that is whyrefi.com may not be available in all 50 states. They were the sponsor of our viral amazing campus tour. So check it out right [e-mail] okay so Rahim, when I was in Cambridge a professor came up and was on the pro Ukraine side and he thought it was laughable that Crimea would even be in contention with to be Russia's. The fact regardless fact that they've annexed it, that Russian wine is from there, that the Russian navy was headquartered from there. I mean a lot of different aspects and elements to this is part of this also the West's fault for our inability to give any concessions to Putin through this process?

[Rahim Kassam]

Yeah, I think that's probably a fair analysis of it. Look, I think it's less of a fair analysis about the, the official class of negotiator. I think actually, while they probably won't want to tell you this, most things are on the table to bring that war to an end. And, and we discussed in the last segment, you know, the, what is on the table in terms of war making to perhaps bring Putin to the table. But also you're right to point out different areas of what were historically both Ukraine and Russia over the last several decades being up for negotiation. The problem is not that the problem is exactly of which you speak. It's the academic class, it's the op ed writers, it's the media class. And what the Russian apparatus and the Russian elites see day after day is all of this stuff peddled out there to say, you know, even if you do try and come to the table, we're not going to let you have this, that and the other. Anyway, we don't recognize you, we don't recognize Putin as the leader. And actually none of that is coming out of officialdom. It's all coming out of, you know, the New York Times and the Washington Post and these guys. And you know, that's not to say that they can't have their opinions on such things, but you have to understand media works a very different way in somewhere like Russia than it does in midtown Manhattan. For a major publication that is seen as all the news that's fit to print in Russia, to be publishing things like that, that would almost have to get a tacit wink and a nod from the establishment to allow that to happen. And a lot of them interpret what the media class and the academic class and the think tank class in the United States are saying is with a nudge and a wink from officialdom. And that is simply not the case. You can listen to all manner of podcasts and shows and as I do, by the way, from across the liberal elite sphere, because I love to know what they're saying. It's usually opinion driven nonsense. And you could be mistaken into thinking that this was the view of the Pentagon or this is the view of the Department of State because they say, well, you know, of course I've spoken to some sources. Turns out some source was, you know, an intern who worked in a subsidiary department at state, you know, 1500 miles away somewhere, trying to, trying to clout, chase or get, or get their opinion taken seriously. Coming back to the, to the, to the point about, about that. Look, the Russian mentality, as we know for, for hundreds of years has, has geared towards the idea of suffering and especially suffering for your, for your nation, for your compatriots. This isn't new to them. This. They don't have a feeling like we do, of necessarily like war weariness like we do. But they also don't have democratic institutions like we do. They don't have their voices represented at every level of government as we're supposed to, by the way. They don't have their voices represented in their media class as we're supposed to, by the way. And so for them, there's this giant chasm between the leadership right now which are, you know, I won't say they're not searching for a way out, but they're searching for a way out that saves them phase and public will which is really not on the side of continuing this conflict.

[Charlie Kirk]

Check out thenationalpulse.com Rahim, thank you so much. Great analysis as always. I want to hear from you. Freedomarliekirk.com if this war is ongoing, do you support sending more money and arms to Ukraine? Thanks so much for listening everybody. Email us. As always, freedomarliekirk.com thanks so much for listening and God bless.

[Robert Hersov]

For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.