Don't Disrespect Our Oval Office — Trump/Vance v. Zelenskyy

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Charlie Kirk Show | Episode: "Don't Disrespect Our Oval Office — Trump/Vance v. Zelenskyy" | Released: February 28, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of The Charlie Kirk Show, host Charlie Kirk delves into a groundbreaking and unprecedented diplomatic incident that unfolded in the White House. The episode focuses on the dramatic public confrontation between former President Donald Trump, Vice President J.D. Vance, and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy over a rare earth minerals deal. This summary captures the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened.

---

1. The White House Confrontation: An Unprecedented Diplomatic Moment

At the heart of the episode is the detailed analysis of a rare public dispute that occurred in the White House involving President Trump, Vice President Vance, and President Zelenskyy of Ukraine. The incident began as a negotiation over a deal concerning rare earth minerals but quickly escalated into a heated exchange.

• Initial Negotiations (00:58-03:15):

  • Producer Blake introduces the situation, highlighting the tension when Zelenskyy confronted Vance about past agreements with Russia.
  • Charlie Kirk emphasizes the disrespect shown by Zelenskyy, stating, “It's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media.” (02:29)

• Public Exchange (02:24-32:14):

  • During the negotiation, Zelenskyy sharply criticized Vance’s approach to diplomacy, forcing an emotional and confrontational dialogue.
  • Lindsey Graham praises Charlie Kirk’s efforts in building Turning Point USA, while the conversation underscores the complexities of international diplomacy under pressure.

• Outcome: Zelenskyy's Departure (04:25-33:58):

  • After a ten-minute dispute, Zelenskyy was asked to leave the White House without signing the deal.
  • President Trump released a statement expressing that Zelenskyy was not ready for peace and disrespected the United States in its cherished Oval Office. (04:34-05:46)
  • The deal remains unsigned, and Zelenskyy's sudden departure marks a significant shift in US-Ukraine relations.

2. In-Depth Analysis and Reactions

Charlie Kirk, along with his guests Alex Marlow and Kurt Schlichter, dissect the implications of this diplomatic fallout.

• Alex Marlow's Insights (05:46-09:05):

  • Marlow suggests that Zelenskyy’s inability to maintain composure reveals his vulnerability without US support.
  • He critiques Zelenskyy's previous actions, including campaigning for Democratic candidates, implying a lack of loyalty to the US.

• Blake’s Perspective (09:05-13:17):

  • Highlights the historic nature of the exchange, comparing it to unprecedented diplomatic tensions.
  • Points out that such public confrontations are rare and have significant implications for international relations.

• Kurt Schlichter's Analysis (17:39-34:35):

  • Schlichter commends Vance for defending America's honor and criticizes Zelenskyy for not respecting US protocols.
  • He emphasizes the importance of America's stance against being treated as a "kicking post" by foreign leaders.

Notable Quotes:

• Charlie Kirk: “We are not your kicking post and we're not your piggy bank. And we're going to assert our wants, needs and desires, our interest ahead of everybody else's.” (35:50)
• Alex Marlow: “Zelensky was being ungrateful; they're not going to let this war continue forever without accountability.” (07:08)

3. Media and Political Reactions

The episode explores how different media outlets and politicians reacted to the White House incident.

• Media Reactions:

  • Jackie Heinrich from Fox News reported on the fallout, noting Zelenskyy's early departure and the cancellation of the press conference.
  • MSNBC and CNN labeled the event as "horrific" and a "tragedy," showcasing a media bias that favors Zelenskyy over the US administration. (36:33-37:57)

• Political Commentary:

  • Lindsey Graham, a staunch Ukraine supporter, expressed disappointment in Zelenskyy, suggesting he must fundamentally change or leave his position. (57:21-60:27)
  • The guests argue that the media's portrayal is skewed to favor foreign leaders over American interests.

Notable Quotes:

• Jackie Heinrich (Fox News): “Trump kicked Zelensky out of the White House. The rare earths deal was not signed.” (32:39-33:58)
• Lindsey Graham: “Zelensky has to make big changes or to leave.” (56:08-57:21)

4. Implications for US-Ukraine Relations and Future Diplomacy

The discussion delves into the potential outcomes of this confrontation and its impact on the ongoing Ukraine-Russia conflict.

• Impact on Peace Negotiations (15:49-26:37):

  • The guests speculate whether this incident brings the US closer to a peace deal or further away from it.
  • Alex Marlow suggests that Zelenskyy's reaction may hinder the possibility of a swift resolution to the conflict.

• Trump’s Negotiation Strategy (30:03-60:10):

  • Charlie Kirk and Kurt Schlichter analyze Trump’s use of leverage, portraying him as a master negotiator willing to take high risks to achieve US interests.
  • They predict that Trump will continue to maneuver Zelenskyy and Russia to secure a favorable peace agreement, possibly forcing Ukraine to make significant concessions.

Notable Quotes:

• Charlie Kirk: “Trump is a master at reading leverage and just intuitively understanding this.” (37:57-38:47)
• Kurt Schlichter: “It is not in America’s interest for this Ukraine war to continue.” (30:28)

5. Concluding Thoughts and Future Prospects

As the episode wraps up, the hosts and guests offer their final thoughts on the incident's significance and what to expect moving forward.

• Future Expectations (60:26-67:27):

  • The hosts express optimism that the confrontation will lead to a settlement, with Zelenskyy possibly apologizing and returning to the negotiation table.
  • They caution against expecting traditional media pundits to understand or support Trump’s aggressive diplomacy tactics.

• Final Insights (67:25-67:27):

  • Alex Marlow reiterates that Zelenskyy’s behavior grants Trump additional leverage, anticipating that the former will seek to rectify the situation to reopen negotiations.

Notable Quotes:

• Charlie Kirk: “This is President Trump reasserting American dominance and American leadership in a pragmatic, realistic way on the global stage.” (36:18-36:35)
• Blake: “Zelensky is going to have to fundamentally change or... you need to get somebody new.” (57:21-58:07)

---

Conclusion

This episode of The Charlie Kirk Show provides a thorough examination of a rare and significant diplomatic clash between the US and Ukraine, highlighting the complexities of international relations under high-stakes negotiation. Through insightful analysis and notable commentary, Charlie Kirk and his guests offer listeners a deep dive into the ramifications of Zelenskyy’s public confrontation with Trump and Vance, the media’s biased portrayal, and the potential paths forward for achieving peace in the Ukraine-Russia conflict.

For more detailed discussions and ongoing coverage of this developing story, listeners are encouraged to tune into future episodes of The Charlie Kirk Show.

Transcript

[Blake]

Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

[Alex Marlow]

Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

[Charlie Kirk]

I want you to know we are.

[Kurt Schlichter]

Lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

[Charlie Kirk]

Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

[Lindsey Graham]

I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.

[Andrew]

We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold [e-mail] that is noblegoldinvestments.com it's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegoldinvestments.com.

[Blake]

Hello, this is producer Blake. We've got a lot going on right now. So Charlie was recording earlier today, but we just had some very remarkable public diplomacy go down in the White House. Volodymyr Zelensky, the president of Ukraine, was in Washington today to sign the rare earth minerals deal that he and Trump recently negotiated. They held a public conversation with the press in one of the rooms of the White House. And something none of us have ever seen before just happened. First, let's welcome in who you actually just saw. Alex Marlow is rejoining us once again. Are you there, Alex?

[Alex Marlow]

Yeah, I'm there, Blake.

[Blake]

It's absolutely incredible. Incredible. So again, to set this up, I was watching this. A lot of the clips have been out of context, but what basically happened is Trump and Zelensky were talking out the deal. Trump was saying, I want peace, all of this. And then J.D. vance was there, Vice President Vance, and he talks about, okay, you know, we're gonna try to develop better diplomacy with Russia to work towards peace. And something incredible happens where Zelensky, he basically picks a fight with Vance. He says he was going on, oh, we had these deals with Russia, and then Russia broke all these deals. So what kind of diplomacy do you want us to do? He basically picks a fight with him and explodes. It goes on for about 10 minutes. Let's do. Let's do clip 271.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country. Yes, but he.

[Blake]

If you.

[Charlie Kirk]

Mr. President, Mr. President, with respect, I.

[Blake]

Think it's disrespectful for you to come.

[Charlie Kirk]

Into the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president for trying to bring it into this conference.

[Lindsey Graham]

Have you ever been to Ukraine that.

[Charlie Kirk]

You say what problems we have have.

[Blake]

I have been to come once. I have actually.

[Charlie Kirk]

I've actually watched and seen the stories.

[Blake]

And I know what happens is you.

[Charlie Kirk]

Bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour. Mr. President, are, do you disagree that you've had problems what bringing people into your military? And do you think that it's respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to. Trying to prevent the destruction of your country?

[Blake]

A lot of.

[Charlie Kirk]

A lot of questions.

[Blake]

Let's start from the beginning.

[Charlie Kirk]

Sure.

[Blake]

First of all, during the war, everybody.

[Charlie Kirk]

Has problems, even you. But you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future.

[Blake]

God bless.

[Lindsey Graham]

You don't know that. God bless.

[Charlie Kirk]

God bless.

[Lindsey Graham]

You will not have war. Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel.

[Blake]

I'm not telling you because you're in.

[Lindsey Graham]

No position to dictate that.

[Charlie Kirk]

Remember this.

[Lindsey Graham]

You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. We're going to feel very good. We're going to feel very good and very strong.

[Charlie Kirk]

You will feel influenced.

[Lindsey Graham]

You're right now not in a very good position. You've allowed to be in a very beginning and he happens to be right.

[Charlie Kirk]

About from the very beginning of the war.

[Lindsey Graham]

You're not in a good position. You don't have the cards right now with us. You start having cards right now. You don't miss the President. You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War 3. What do you think you're gambling with World War 3? And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country, far more than a lot of people said they should have.

[Charlie Kirk]

Have you said thank you once a lot of times? No. Even today you said thank you, went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October.

[Blake]

Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the President who's trying to save your country. So just a second. So that recently wrapped up and then we had this statement just released from President Trump on truth Social. I'm not sure what the number is, but let's put it up if we can. We had a very meaningful meeting in the White House today. Much was learned that could never be understood without conversation under such fire and pressure. It's amazing what comes out through emotion. I have determined that President Zelensky is not ready for peace if America is involved because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiations. I don't want advantage. I want peace. He disrespected the United States of America in its cherished Oval Office. He can come back when he is ready for for peace. And a follow up press conference between Trump and Zelensky, they are reporting, has been canceled. Zelensky's motorcade pulled up to the White House. I believe he may have already departed. Alex, what do we make of all of this?

[Alex Marlow]

Yeah, it's very interesting to watch Zelensky kind of buckle under the pressure of the moment. This was the moment for him to take his medicine, which is that he is vulnerable unless he is the backing of the United States or NATO countries. He's not a NATO country. The the United States especially President Trump has been proactive about giving him weaponry. He got Javelin missiles from Trump proactively, which even Biden didn't do that. Trump had been an ally of Ukraine and this has been a big myth. I talked about with Charlie, people who are just tuning into the show on the pre tape segment where I talked about how Trump had helped Ukraine immeasurably. The American media had prevented the public from being aware of that. And he comes in and he's essentially lecturing us on our emotions. He's appealing to our emotions on how we feel about stuff because Putin invaded. Buddy, we don't care who started this thing. We just want it to end. And that was the memo that Zelensky did not get. And Vance made very good points about how Zelensky had come to Pennsylvania and campaigned on behalf of Kamala Harris and Democrats. He'd come to campaign for the other guys. And Trump is still trying to broker a piece so no more Ukrainians die. The price of that piece is going to be he's going to have to share the rare earths with us. That should be a good compromise to any good negotiator. But, but, but Zelensky could not handle it. He kind of freaked out there. That was a unbelievable thing to scold the Vice president and the President about our emotions in the Oval Office. I admit I've never seen something like that happen in the public.

[Blake]

It really is Incredible. Charlie tweeted just a few minutes ago that this is the most transparent display of diplomacy in. In history. I literally cannot think of of another example like it going all the way back. You'll hear about arguments between world leaders that happen at summits, that happen in private, but nothing where, you know, a super. Like a. An engagement that appeared to be polite, appeared to be, you know, kind of a formality explodes like that. Goes on for several minutes. And it looks like a lot of people are reacting. They're saying Zielinski screwed it up. We have a Mark Thiessen. He was a former speechwriter for Bush. He's kind of a more hawkish Republican. He literally has Ukraine's flag in his profile name on X. And he says this is entirely Zelensky's fault. Trump greeted him graciously, was ready to turn the page, just said he wanted to get help, help Ukraine get its territory back. And Zelensky comes in, gets into a fight in public. I've never seen anything like it in my life.

[Alex Marlow]

Something here that I. Yeah, can I add something here that I think is really important? He's anticipating the American media is going to take his side. And what does that say about the American press? Zelensky is only doing this in front of the press because he thinks they're on his team, not the President of the United States team. And I got to tell you, I bet he was correct to assume that. Watch how the media react to this story, because this is one is a total Rorschach test. If you are on the pro America side, if you're in the America first side, you see, what Trump and Vance did is defend our nation, our sovereignty. What Zelensky did is attack us despite our graciousness and the fact that we've given them so much. It is totally outside of the realm of possibility that this would have happened if we had a press that actually cared about this country more than Ukraine.

[Blake]

And it's such a bafflingly bad play to me, because Trump has been the biggest guy in American politics for a decade. And I think anyone who honestly looks at the way he is, you can kind of understand how you would appeal to Trump. And if Zelensky came in and was just over the top. We're so grateful for the aid you've given. We're so grateful for the aid. You would have never let this war start, Mr. President. The invasion didn't happen while you were president. If he had that approach, I bet it would really win Trump over. Trump would think, oh, I can work with the Zelensky guy. We can get something going here. Instead, throw in your lot to just assume, oh, well, the media, the same people who very badly failed at stopping Trump in 2024, they'll tear him down, they'll wreck his administration, and that will force him to give me more money to keep the war going. I just, I really cannot figure out what was driving this to happen. Unless maybe he just didn't expect it to blow up that way. But he, he should have, he should have backpedaled once he saw what was going on. And instead they just escalated it and they gave us. I would say this is certainly the single most memorable moment of, of the new Trump administration so far.

[Alex Marlow]

Yeah, it's explosive. The reaction online are unbelievable. My, my newsroom at Breitbart is. Everyone is going absolutely nuts for. This is just. People don't even know what to make of it. Exactly. I it for some, a calamity like this to happen, there's got to be. It's got to be a multifactorial origin. I think Zelensky probably has some language issues. I could have chosen better words if he was more of a native English speaker. I think that's part of it. I think he's completely arrogant because of the American media and the way they've treated him in the past, and the Democrat Party that's welcomed him and flown the Ukraine flag and all these people, even establishment rhino type neocons who have been so pro Ukraine relentlessly, I don't think he got a dose of reality. I think this stuff that J.D. vance was saying is all common knowledge to us. People listen to Charlie's show, people listen to my show. They, they know that Zelensky went and campaigned for Democrats, which was election interference on behalf of the Democrats in our country. They know that we'd given them over $100 billion and a lot of it had disappeared. We don't know where it went. Tucker says it went to ski resorts and I have no reason to doubt him. We don't like this guy that much. I don't think he understood that. I don't think he understood that. He needed to come in there and he needed to say, hey, Trump, you're the man. This is your moment. This is your media now, and I'm going to work with you to broker a piece that is the moment we're in. And he couldn't do it. He tried to save face in some and it will go down as perhaps a historic, historic failure for him and for his country.

[Blake]

Let's play another one of the clips here. I think we can fit this one in just to show what the vibe is. Let's do a clip. 268 this is another funny exchange. Let's throw it.

[Charlie Kirk]

She's asking what if Russia breaks the ceasefire?

[Lindsey Graham]

What if they. What if anything? What if a bomb drops on your head right now? Okay. What if they broke it?

[Kurt Schlichter]

I don't know.

[Lindsey Graham]

They broke it with Biden because Biden, they didn't respect him. They didn't respect Obama. They respect me. Let me tell you, Putin went through a hell of a lot with me. He went through a phony witch hunt where they used him. And Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia. You ever hear of that deal? That was a phony. That was a phony. Hunter Biden, Joe Biden scam. Hillary Clinton, shifty Adam Schiff. It was a Democrat scam. And he had to go through that. And he did go through it. We didn't end up in a war. And he went through it. He was accused of all that stuff. He had nothing to do with it. It came out of Hunter Biden's bathroom. It came out of Hunter Biden's bedroom.

[Blake]

We've been on this story so long it's easy to forget sometimes. This all kind of started with you. Remember he gave Zelensky the call in 2018 or 2019, and then they said we have to impeach him over that Hunter Biden, we have come a long way since then. But. Yeah, Alex, so how do we see this playing out? Let's assume Zelensky's correct, that the media do take his side and they talk, you know, they'll say Trump disgraced America with his bad diplomatic protocol or whatever. How do you see that shaping out with the American public?

[Alex Marlow]

Yeah, this might be one where they might see the writing on the wall that they can't. They can't do that this time because you cannot come into our overall office one of the hallowed grounds on American soil. And to be so spoiled. He just comes off as a spoiled baby. Trump was trying to be gracious, trying to him. And I feel like it is going to be a big. It's something that Zelensky certainly calculated. He would have the people in the room, the press who were there, they would have his back. But for him to come out and to suggest that Trump has been anything short of trying to broker a piece that provides a best case scenario for Ukraine is just inaccurate. And he needed to turn that page. He needed to move on. And he wants to go relitigate that. Putin did invade his territory. That's true. But again, that is not the focal point right now. The focal point now is not how this started. It's how we bring it to a peace before things get worse. It's noteworthy that the average age of the Ukrainian troops now is in the mid-40s, their mid-40s. It wasn't how it was the beginning of the war. They've lost hundreds of thousands of people. Russia, I think, has lost a million people. It's time to end this thing for the good of humanity. And anyone who is not prepared to do that is just going to be. It is not going to be welcome in the eyes of Trump, who wants this thing cleaned up so he can go back to focusing on his agenda and Vance jumping in there and defending our honor as a country after Zelensky wasted so much of our money and he went against Trump, despite how Trump was helpful to him when Trump was president and Zelensky knew it. Zelensky didn't hate Trump before. I don't think he'd hate him now. It's one of these things where Vance was defending our honor, and then Zelensky gets emotional about it like a baby. Unbelievable stuff. And I just don't know how the media spins it. Maybe, but they'll try. They will try.

[Blake]

And I suppose the, the million, the hundred billion dollar question is, what is the impact of this on the actual war? Does this somehow bring us closer to peace? And I think the answer is we don't know. It would. I, I think I would consider it a tragedy. Charlie would consider it a tragedy if that were to result in, you know, if this means there is no peace. Russia crushes Ukraine, hundreds of thousands of people die. I don't think that's what President Trump wants. He genuinely does want peace. We want peace. But we can only have peace if every part, every party involved actually wants it to happen. And today it kind of did have the look that rather than pursuing peace, Zelensky wanted to pursue this dunk on President. On Vice President Vance. Why don't you give us your thoughts, Alex, on that part of it? Are we closer to peace or farther away?

[Alex Marlow]

Yeah. Yeah. Blake, one thing that's really interesting here that I was thinking about is that there's been a lot of back and forth about whether or not Ukraine has all these. These rare earths. And the EU says that they've got all these rare earths. They've got a lot of them. They've got like 5% of the world's rare earths. And there's been a lot of dispute about that. Russian media says they don't have as much. And, you know, I don't tend to trust Russian media at face value, but it's an interesting possibility that maybe Russia was right and, and the EU was wrong. Again, all else being equal, I tend to trust the EU more than Russia, but who trusts the EU that much? Maybe there's something going on that maybe there aren't as many of these minerals that we thought we were going to get when we were brokering this piece. And maybe that was part of the underlying thing. Maybe that's why Zelinsky was freaking out, is that that could have been exposed. So that's another thing, because the deal was not signed. So apparently Zelensky's left the White House, been kicked out of the White House now. So he's on his way home. And if there's no deal signed yet, then what was this all about?

[Blake]

We kicked him out. Wow. That I. Truly unbelievable. This is. This is. Forget the most viral part of the. Of this Trump presidency. This, this feels like a top five crazy moment in the entire Trump era.

[Alex Marlow]

Yeah, this is really exciting. This is what we live for in the news business. And I'd love to see America defended by. It's a double whammy for me because America first guy. I love to see Vance and Trump defend America, and I just like the clarity with the way both them spoke. Zelensky, he's at a disadvantage because it's our home soil and he doesn't speak the language naturally, but advance and Trump defending our honor was great to see. I think it's a historic moment for both of those men. And I think the country is, is. Will ultimately be grateful for that display.

[Blake]

It's. Yeah. It's a new mode of diplomacy. It's the most transparent diplomacy we'll ever see. All right, we actually have Andrew now. Andrew, can you.

[Kurt Schlichter]

Yeah.

[Blake]

We there to join us? What's your reaction?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes, I mean, I think what you guys were just saying. I've never in the history of diplomacy, of White House visits, seen anything like this. It's explosive. It's unprecedented. I don't know if anybody in the news media landscape knows where things go from here. Other than the fact that Zelensky has left the White House, there's been no deal signed. I mean, that is a complete devolution of that relationship, and it is historic. I mean, normally these things are scripted. Everybody plays nice. Everybody's on their best behavior. The fact that J.D. vance blew all that up. I mean, really, it was Zelensky. But the fact that J.D. vance stepped in and as Alex has defended our country's honor in that moment was striking. And I think it says a lot about his courage. He's got, you know, we've been talking about Doge and big balls. Well, I think we got a, we got another guy here that, that, that also exhibited a lot of courage under fire and a lot of gusto. And, and I'm really proud of JD for standing up for our honor. He's going to get lambasted in the, in the MSM and the legacy news media for breaking protocol. Whatever. I don't care. Zelensky started this exchange and JD Vance wasn't going to sit idly by watching it happen. I completely think that Zelensky comes out looking like the unhinged foreign oligarch that he is. And I think people with eyes to see it are going to see it. I think this changes dramatically, at least in the short run, the way that I see this negotiation for peace playing out. But it could very well mean that Zelensky is going to simply defy anything that the US Proposes. Even if we try and broker a piece, Zelensky could very well just try and thumb his nose at the Americans, which is, I would say, political death sentence for him if he actually allows a democratic process to play out within Ukraine. So we're in uncharted territory. But I absolutely. To your point, Alex, I think before where you said he's never been confronted with the depth of his. Just how unpopular he's become and especially within conservative circles. And this was a come to Jesus moment for him that he simply refused to acknowledge because he's had smoke blown up as you know what for so long with, you know, Hollywood, the foreign press, our press in the United States. So I couldn't be more stunned, shocked, surprised that this happened, but actually really grateful at JD Van.

[Andrew]

History, economics, the great works of literature. Did you study these things in school? Probably not. Or even if you did, maybe it's time for an enjoyable refresher. Hillsdale College is offering more than 40 free online courses, including their newest course on totalitarian novels. In this free eight lecture course, you'll learn from Hillsdale College President Larry Arne as he goes in depth on four novels. 1984, Brave New World, Darkness at Noon, and that Hideous Strength. I love all four. Even though these novels were written in the 1930s and 40s, they're highly relevant today as they show what a tyrannical government does to human nature. More importantly, they can show us that faith, family and friends are worth fighting for. Maybe you read these books a long time ago in school. Maybe you've heard others talk about them and they seem a little intimidating. Let Hillsdale College, America's greatest college, help you make the most of them. Go right now to charlieforhillsdale.com to enroll. There's no cost and it's easy to get started. That is charlieforhillsdale.com C-H-A-R L I E for hillsdale.com.

[Blake]

I believe we have another guest. We have Kurt Schlichter joining us from his automobile. Are you able to hear us, Kurt?

[Kurt Schlichter]

I can. How do you like beautiful West Texas?

[Blake]

Oh, it looks. It looks very lovely.

[Kurt Schlichter]

God bless America.

[Blake]

All right.

[Charlie Kirk]

I've been on that drive and it's.

[Kurt Schlichter]

It'S, it's one heck of a drive. And, and the, the beauty of it is it's full of the kind of Americans that Zielinski never talks to, Zelensky never sees. Zelensky stays in the cities when he comes and doesn't understand that the people out here who have to pay for this in treasure and if necessary, in blood are. And I don't think he understands that when he runs his little foreigner mouth at the guy we just elected president and gets put in his place, which is subordinate to the United States of America, normal Americans are going to cheer. And I want to tell you, I say that as a friend of the Ukrainians. I trained Ukrainian soldiers in Ukraine when I was in the army. I deployed a Ukrainian unit, was with us. I sympathize with them. I wish they could win their war. I think they fought very bravely. But we're not going to take a lot of guff from some foreign potentate that is not in the cards. It's not happening. And you were right, Andrew. They were blowing smoke up his fourth point of contact and he got high on his own supply.

[Charlie Kirk]

Couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree more. We, I'm told we haven't played this, so I apologize. I'm coming in late. I tried to schedule a doctor's appointment conveniently with other scheduling dynamics that we have rushed back. 273 this is CNN. Chris, Christiane Amanpour's reaction to what just transpired in the Oval Office. 273 Never in the history of modern.

[Blake]

Diplomacy, war, peace, whatever, have I ever, ever, ever seen anything like it. We just have to hope that for the safety of the free world and for the American people, for the European people, for the Ukrainian people that these two presidents out of breath and try to iron out their differences. This was an entirely personal go to with so many mistruths and misfires. Totally in line with what I was saying. Nothing like it.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, who wants to take the mistruths and misfacts?

[Kurt Schlichter]

Well, look, I haven't had a chance to see the whole exchange. I think you saw plenty right there. It is personal, but it's more than just individuals. It's about the United States of America. And that's why JD Vance did such a great job standing up for the country. Our country's not going to take guff from little foreign potentates anymore. It isn't going to happen. As for Christine on import, you know, it would go a long way if every once in a while you took America's side in a fight. It would have gone a lot. You know, you'd have done Zelensky a favor if you said, hey, normal Americans, the guys who drive trucks, the guys who shoot guns, the guys who actually elected this president have a lot of doubts about you, Zelensky. They look at you, they look at your background, they don't trust you. They think you're corrupt. Maybe instead of presuming to lecture them from some sort of moral high ground, you were handed by a bunch of Hollywood half wits and regime media superstars. You came in and you made your case about how you're fighting for the freedom of your country against invaders and how you need America's help. Please, please help us. We're very, very brave. And that, now that would have struck an entirely different chord and we'd be in a very different place. But you know what? We're not going to be ignored. We're not going to be insulted. We're not going to be treated like children, told to sit there and be quiet and not spoken until we're spoken to. That isn't in the cards. That's not how this presidency works.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, and you know, Kurt, what strikes me here is that this could essentially force Zelensky to run into the arms of Europe. And Europe's talking tough on Russia still. But, but here's the problem. They have so, you know, they have so lacked. There's been a lack of investment in their own security, defense because they've been leaning on the United States. And so Trump had that one line where he said, you have no cards to play. You have no cards to play. His only card is to run into the arms of the Europeans. But the Europeans are feckless weak. They have not invested in their own security. And so is that even a card to play? What does Zelensky do next?

[Kurt Schlichter]

Well, look, in worst case, it's yo. Oh, please don't throw me in that briar patch.

[Blake]

What?

[Kurt Schlichter]

He's going to show Trump by doing exactly what Trump wants him to do. I mean, the Europeans have already tried that. Well, we're just going to have to, you know, you're mad at us for not carrying our fair share of NATO, so I, I guess we're just going to have to show you by carrying our fair share of NATO. Oh, no, please don't do exactly what he wants. There are no cards to play. Look, I used to negotiate for a living when I was a full time lawyer. And sometimes you walk in with nothing. And maybe you can bluff. Maybe. But if you have a master negotiator like Donald Trump, are you going to bet on bluffing out, Bluffing him?

[Charlie Kirk]

Come on, come on.

[Kurt Schlichter]

That's crazy talk.

[Charlie Kirk]

I totally agree, Blake. What? Is this a bluff from Trump or is this. Was this like, he mean he means business?

[Kurt Schlichter]

Yeah.

[Blake]

I feel like you can never know. Trump is, he's very much.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's his genius.

[Blake]

Well, yeah, it's like, it's, you know, there was the famous. They called it like the madman theory where Nixon would act like he was very aggressive. He would cultivate the idea that he could do anything so that people would respect him and Trump. The best way to actually have people believe that about you is to actually be that way. And Trump really can be a guy who can swerve very much. He can seem this implacable enemy and then he's actually very eager to make a deal, but he can hold a grudge, too. And so I think it's one of those things where when you're watching it, you're never quite sure what will happen. But as we saw in the first term, it had this pattern of eventually working out that it would seem very chaotic. It would seem like it was causing conflict. And then actually, surprisingly, he'd get on really well with the Mexican president, who was this big left winger, and we'd get remain in Mexico. He would actually successfully renegotiate the trade deals. He would go to North Korea. There's this special thing with Trump where whatever he's doing ends up working out surprisingly well. I don't know how this will fit into it. We'll have to see. We'll have to see what unfolds, to say the least. I very much wonder if maybe what could happen is Trump will say, we're happy to make more concessions with Ukraine, make a better deal, but Zelensky specifically needs to resign, and that would be an interesting way to get him out. And also bring. Make Ukraine democracy again. Say you guys have to hold an election. We'll support a democracy if it's an actual democracy, not a sort of military dictatorship for the duration. There's a lot of ways I can see this. This shaking out.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. And, Kurt, I look at. I don't know if you saw the statement, because I know you're driving, but President Trump released a statement basically saying, you know, he's not ready for peace yet. He. He disrespected us in. In our cherished Oval Office. But here's how he ends it, Kurt. He says he can come back when he is ready for peace. Basically, Trump is saying, there's no option to move forward. We settle or you're on your own.

[Kurt Schlichter]

I think that's an excellent statement of the present situation. And look, again, as I said, I sympathize with the Ukrainians, but I'm an American and I believe in American interest. It is in America's interest for this war to end. It's costing us money. It's risking our lives. It is not in America's interest for this Ukraine war to continue.

[Blake]

We have Zelensky leaving the White House early. Apparently, the agreement they were going to sign has gone unsigned. We saw a diplomatic deal collapse in real time. I've been reacting here with producer Andrew, who had to leave the doctor's appointment early, as well as Kurt Schlichter. We haven't played every video that we have available from this, so I kind of want to go back to play one of these because they're pretty incredible. This is a very interesting argument over basically saying the word thank you. Let's play clip 272.

[Lindsey Graham]

It's going to be a very hard thing to do, business like this, I tell you.

[Charlie Kirk]

Thank you.

[Blake]

I said a lot of times, except that there are disagreements, and let's go.

[Charlie Kirk]

Litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the American media. When you're wrong, we know that you're wrong.

[Lindsey Graham]

But you see, I think it's good for the American people to see what's going on here. I think it's very important. That's why I kept this going so long. You have to be thankful you don't have the cars. You're buried there. People are dying. You're running low on soldiers. Listen, you're running Low on soldiers, it would be a damn good thing. And then you tell us, I don't want to cease fire. I don't want to cease fire. I want to go. And I wanted this. Look, if you could get a ceasefire right now, I tell you, you take it so the bullets stop flying. And you meant stuff getting killed.

[Blake]

Of course we want to stop the war.

[Lindsey Graham]

I'm saying you don't want to cease. I said to you, I want to cease guarantees because you'll get a ceasefire faster than any.

[Blake]

Ask our people about ceasefire, what they think. It doesn't matter for you what.

[Lindsey Graham]

That wasn't with me. That was with a guy named Biden who was not a smart person. That was your.

[Charlie Kirk]

It was your president.

[Lindsey Graham]

Excuse me, that was with Obama. Who gave you sheets. And I gave you javelins. Yes, I gave you the javelins to take out all those tanks. Obama gave you sheets. In fact, the statement is obama gave sheets and Trump gave javelins. You got to be more thankful because let me tell you, you don't have the cards. With us, you have the cards, but without us, you don't have any cards.

[Blake]

Just one of several crazy exchanges there. I want to get this. This was just posted a short time ago by Jackie Heinrich with Jackie Heinrich with, I believe, Fox News reporting out the story. She says White House officials tell Fox, first, Trump kicked Zelensky out of the White House. He did not leave on his own. Trump kicked him out. It says the rare earths deal was not signed. The White House claims that the Ukrainians were begging to reset negotiations, but Rubio Secretary of State Rubio informed them Zelensky needed to leave the White House grounds and return when he is ready for peace. The president and US Officials felt disrespected by Zelensky's rhetoric and his demeanor. They cited that he was, quote, shrugging and rolling his eyes during the conversation. And then she adds this, this is incredible. When I went to the upper press to ask what was going on, the lunch that Trump and Zelensky were supposed to be dining on and while talking, was sitting out in the hallway, I am told that White House press office staffers will be eating it. So that's the current state of things. Zelensky kicked out of the White House and told, come back when you're ready for peace.

[Kurt Schlichter]

Oh, man, when have we ever seen anything like this? And I got to tell you, it's refreshing. And Donald Trump did on purpose as he said, I want the American people to see what I'm dealing with. Well, they have. And I got to tell you, most normal Americans are going to go, Damn right, Mr. President. Damn right. And you just, just watch for the people who side with a foreigner. Just watch for the people who make excuses for the guy who hasn't held an election in years. Watch who sides with us and who sides with them.

[Charlie Kirk]

I totally, I totally agree with this. You know, I've been thinking about this clip a lot lately, Kurt. It was that Jasmine Crockett, and she was. I think she was talking about the, the hockey, hockey game with US vs Canada, and she was saying, I'm rooting for Canada. I'm rooting for Mexico. This is a sitting US Congresswoman who openly admits that she's rooting against her own country. But, yeah, we could say that that's just about a sports event, but that mindset is emblematic across the political spectrum. It doesn't matter if it's about negotiations with Ukraine, about Greenland, Panama, deporting criminals, all of this. You've got one side of the country, let's call them 35%. Maybe it's less, maybe it's more. 35% of, though, is an incredible amount of people in this country that I guarantee you are rooting for foreign nations that are going to be siding with zelensky. And that 35%, when you take it to our press corps, is probably more like 85%, 90%. So don't expect you listening in the audience for the US Media to look favorably on what just happened. They're going to say this is blowing up norms. It's destroying the world order that's been led by America. No, I see it completely different. Differently. This is President Trump reasserting American dominance and American leadership in a pragmatic, realistic way on the global stage, telling our allies that they will not treat us like garbage anymore. And we're not your kicking post and we're not your piggy bank. And we're going to assert our wants, needs and desires, our interest ahead of everybody else's. And to the extent that those align, fantastic. And to the extent they don't, too bad. So sad. Get in line.

[Blake]

I want to play. Since we're talking about the press's reaction, let's play another clip of their reaction. We did CNN earlier. Now we have MSNBC. Let's play clip 275. I certainly have never seen anything like what we just watched unfold between the.

[Charlie Kirk]

President of the United States and the.

[Blake]

Leader of another country. Give me your take on what, what we've just witnessed. We're on live tv so I'm not going to speak in terms that I would speak if we are off the air, but this was horrific. This was a tragedy and a tragedy for American national security interests. I want to really emphasize that. And then another thing, let's. Let's put up 283 quick just because Ryan. Ryan found this. This is apparently the Ukrainian ambassador, someone with their delegation, as this is happening, just sticking her face into her hands. Oh, no. What is happening, man? It's. It's amazing. Yeah. Like, they're saying, I wonder what words he wanted to use in private. Like, what's worse than horrific? Like, this was a genocide. This was the end of humanity. This is that meteor out in space hitting Earth and exploding. There's a lot of hyperbole. I think, like I said, Trump can hold a grudge. I wouldn't be surprised, you know, if Ukraine were to come back very aggressively, very quickly and say, this was extremely bad and we are genuinely ready for peace. Trump does like to make deals, but it's very remarkable, and I think we'll be seeing this shake out over the weekend. Very, very much so.

[Charlie Kirk]

I happen to think that Trump is the master, the master at reading leverage and just intuitively understanding this. And I think he's gamed this out. Game theory in Trump's head is already played out in five different ways. And I think he knows he's got this guy dead to rights. I think he knows that. He said it right there. He says, you got no cards without us. With us, you got cards. So, you know, and I tend to believe the press statement from the White House saying he was begging for a reset. Hey, everything's fine. We argued it out. What's a little fight tomorrow? Tomorrow we'll, you know, we'll be bros again kind of thing. I think. I think they're not playing around. And I think this is years of being frustrated, the Biden regime's handling of this. Of this conflict, and it just. It just boiled over. And I think Trump's. I think Trump's already sized up the leverage. Kurt, if you want to reply, you got about 30 seconds till our break.

[Kurt Schlichter]

Look, I think that if you like Ukraine, if you truly like Ukraine, like the regime, media pretends to like the Democrats, pretend to. They be honest and say, hey, Zelensky was totally out of line here. Totally out of line. Guys, go to your corners, cool off, get back in there, hug it out, work it out, but they can't do that.

[Blake]

Yeah. So I was just thinking as I watched that clip where, you know, what's his name on MSNBC was raving how horrific this is. I think it is worth pausing to reflect on what we've said a lot about the Ukraine war, which is, this is a war which 100% did not have to happen if you followed the lead up to that war in late 2021, early 2022, Russia was very, very, very straightforward about what their grievances were with the West. They were angry about NATO expansion. They wanted to negotiate. They were saying, if we can make a deal on Crimea, if we can make a deal on leaving military assets away from the border, if we can make deals about who gets to join NATO, and so on. They were ready to. They wanted some sort of negotiation, and we would just refuse to do it. We would howl about their buildup, but we would not negotiate. And then they invaded Ukraine. Hundreds of thousands of people from both countries are now dead because of this. We have the evidence that a peace could have been negotiated within the first few days of the conflict, which would have been a much better deal than we are likely to get now. It might have literally just been. We acknowledged Crimea and we acknowledged Donbass, which were two territories Russia already controlled at the time, that, by all measurements, appear to want to be a part of Russia anyway. And they threw all of that out and they insisted on plunging. A unfortunate country. Ukraine is an unfortunate country. It is probably the most conflict wracked of all of the former Soviet countries. It's one of the poorest. It is a tragic country that has had enough bad things happen to it. And we had warhawks in Washington, war hawks in Brussels, push them into a war that they could not win without foreign support, when they could not, when, like, we weren't willing to send our own troops to do it. We have people. We had people saying, this is great because Ukraine is doing the dying for us to kill Russians. And now all of these people are going to have this moral outrage because Trump got mad at Zelensky for not being grateful for the billions of dollars we've already sent him. And I just. I'm just in awe of how outrageous they're. Like moral posturing can be. I just. I just had to tee off on that. Sorry, Andrew. What do you have to think about it?

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I mean, listen, I. I just find the whole thing. I just think it was a rebalancing. I actually see Trump has gotten into worse fights with Marco Rubio in the past. In my opinion. I see this as an opportunity for him to really let them know that he's not messing around. He wants peace. He wants this thing over. He's not interested in Ukraine's, you know, trying to get the Donbass back or trying to fight for Crimea. Like, I mean, Ukrainians position is basically we want the entire, you know, territorial integrity pre war back in Ukrainian hands probably back before 2014. That's not going to happen. That's not going to happen for a lot of reasons. First of all, Russia's not going to consist see that. Second of all, that nobody can make them. Third of all, they're not giving up Crimea. Fourth of all, these are regions that want to be part of Russia. And you know, yeah, we've lost a generation of Ukrainian men. They're going to fight it out to the bitter end. That's a terrible strategy. That's terrible leadership. You got to know when you've been beat, when you, when you have reached a stalemate. And the only sensible thing to do, I think Trump said sees this is to, is to basically sue for peace. That's the only sensible thing that that is left on the table because we're not going to keep fun and we're not going to keep bankrolling this quagmire forever. And on one level, and I, when we come back from the break, I'd love to get your opinion on this, Kurt. I do feel bad for Ukraine on some level. They, as Mersheimer has said, and we're going to play this clip, they have been led down the primrose path by the west saying that we were going to have their back to the bitter end, didn't matter what, we're going to push off Russia and we're going to, we're going to bring you into the west, we're going to let you join NATO. And basically Putin called the west bluff and said, screw you, I'm going to invade. Now, I don't like Putin. Putin's not a good guy. But how would we feel if the and we got a taste of this with the Cuban Missile crisis, if Russia was parked outside our doorstep pointing nukes at us, pointing weapons at us and advancing an alliance that they built closer and closer to our doorstep? We wouldn't like it at all. Now, I'm not saying we would go bomb Cuba, but that was on the table. Kurt, you know, I'm not as good of a student of history as you, but listen, I mean, we've got to understand that Putin is maybe a malicious actor, but he's not an irrational actor.

[Andrew]

If you are a private student loan borrower which, by the way, private student loan debt totals about $300 billion. You guys should take a look at it. You can finally take control of your student loan situation with a plan that works for your monthly budget. Because of private student loan debt, so many Americans feel stuck and they feel helpless and they've even lost hope. If your private student loan debt is keeping you up at night and ruining your life, it doesn't have to just call. Why refi? Can you imagine being debt free and not living under this burden anymore? Be unburdened by what has been? Many clients aren't even able to make minimum monthly payments on their private student loans when they first contact yrefi. Go to yrefi.com that is yrefy.com yrefi can reduce your monthly payment and guarantees interest rates under 6%, ensuring affordability and financial relief. Go to yrefi.com that is yrefy.com that is yrefi.com so take a look right now at why refi.com wonderful people available not in all states, so check it out. Why refi.com.

[Blake]

This this Trump press conference or press briefing with Zelensky ended with Zelensky departing, kicked out of the White House and told to come back when he is ready for peace. I have a message from a friend of mine that I think is pretty insightful. If I thought that my life and my country's survival depended on my ability to suck up to someone, I would just do it. And it is to be more serious for a moment, it's sad to think who are the people whose lives might end that didn't have to end because Zelensky couldn't help himself from picking a fight with the country that has bankrolled him more than any other country in the world. It's sad to think about, and it's unfortunate that it came to this, but you also find yourself thinking like did was this a necessary thing that had to happen to show that we are serious?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, I kind of fall in that camp. Hey Kurt, I'm going to play this John Mersheimer clip, famous clip. I'm sure you've seen it before, but285 and I'll get you a reaction to it. 285 But I actually think that what's.

[Blake]

Going on here is that the west is leading Ukraine down the primrose path.

[Charlie Kirk]

And the end result is that Ukraine.

[Blake]

Is going to get wrecked.

[Kurt Schlichter]

What we're doing is encouraging the Ukrainians to play tough with the Russians. We're encouraging the Ukrainians to think that they will ultimately become part of the.

[Blake]

West because we will ultimately defeat Putin.

[Charlie Kirk]

And we will ultimately get our way.

[Blake]

And of course, the Ukrainians are playing along with this and the Ukrainians are almost completely unwilling to compromise with the Russians and instead want to pursue a hardline policy.

[Kurt Schlichter]

As I said to you before, if.

[Blake]

They do that, the end result is.

[Lindsey Graham]

That their country is going to be wrecked.

[Charlie Kirk]

Kurt Schlichter.

[Kurt Schlichter]

Yeah, I'm not, look, to put mildly, I'm not a fan of Mearsheimer, but he's right there. The west told Ukraine, hey, let you and him fight. Oh, we got your back. NN sort of had its back.

[Blake]

You know, Mearsheimer, for those who don't know him, he's a very esteemed foreign policy professor. Written a lot of books about, you know, he's like considered basically the main guy in his branch of foreign policy studies, neorealism. And he's been very astute on this conflict for basically a decade now, where he just makes the point got and it was actually a point Obama made a decade ago is what's so funny about how it shows how fanatical the left has gotten, which is just Ukraine is next to Russia. It has been a part of Russia for most of the past 500 years. It is considered the cultural origination point of Russia. If you read a history of Russia, it doesn't start with Moscow, it starts in Kiev. And Russia is just always going to care more about that country than we will. And any diplomacy we're going to do has to account for that, that they care more than we do. Their ability to escalate or their willingness to escalate is greater than ours. And there was just this total unwillingness in Washington to account for that. And it's horrible to think that hundreds of thousands of people died because people in Foggy Bottom wanted to feel like they were, they were tough guys.

[Kurt Schlichter]

Look, the Europeans and, and the alleged friends of Ukraine have really led Ukraine down the path at the end of the day. And you guys have it right. You know, I, I about all this inter Slavic stuff and it's stuff that we can kind of know about, but we can't feel. If you guys remember goodfellas and how they, the mob was said they were going to make Joe Pesci and they instead of making them, they shot him in the back of the head. And Robert De Niro and Henry Hill were basically said, hey, we're not Italians. We can't understand what went on with the Italians. It's real Italian Stuff. Well, this is real Slavic stuff. There's a lot of things going on there we don't fully get. We can approach understanding it, but there's nationalist fires, religious fires, all sorts of, all sorts of things going on that make this very, very dangerous to interfere in. And interference includes, oh, go ahead, go ahead, wave the red flag in front of the bull and maybe you'll scare the bull off or maybe the bull will charge. Unfortunately, this bull charged. And what we've had is a human tragedy unfolding for three years. There's a way out, and it's not going to be one that Ukraine likes, but you know what? It lost.

[Blake]

We have Alex Marlow back with us. He was speaking to us just a few minutes ago and now he's back. Alex, did you get a chance to see any of those, those clips we had of the, of the media reaction? We had a MSNBC saying that this was, I think, horrific. And that was the word he had to use because he was on television. He couldn't say what he really thought.

[Alex Marlow]

I have not had a chance to see the clips because I was doing another hit that I had pre scheduled. So sorry to leave you guys for a little bit, but it's. I'm at the MSNBC homepage right now and it's Trump and Vance berate Ukraine. Zelensky in ugly Oval Office media. Ugly Oval Office meeting. So it's exactly what I predicted an hour ago, Blake, to you, which is that the media was going to try to spin this as Zelensky's the victim. And so I don't think all of them are going to be able to stick with this because it did look so bad. And the points that particularly Vance was making were so salient and so resonant, President, that Trump is not getting enough credit for all the, all the good that he's done for Ukraine over the years. And I think that once people realize that's what was going on and Zelensky was being ungrateful, they're not gonna be able to hang on to this, I don't think, for too long. But you knew they were going to try. They have to try because remember, everything Trump does is bad and everything Zelensky does is good in the eyes of our press.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. And we have breaking news here. Alex, let's go ahead and put up 288. So Zelensky has now gone on Twitter X and released the following statement. He says, thank you, America. Thank you for your support. Thank you for this visit. Thank you, potus, Congress and the American people. Ukraine needs just and lasting peace, and we are working exactly for that.

[Blake]

Do we have the. So do we have the curb your enthusiasm music? I feel like we've got the realization.

[Charlie Kirk]

I mean, it. Yeah, it feels a little bit like, here's what's gonna happen. I can almost play out the next three steps, Alex and I. I'm curious if you agree he's going to. It said, according to White House sources, he basically begged the White House for a reset. Like, let's calm down. Let's try this again. Let's go, let's. So I don't think he's leaving D.C. i would. I think what's going to happen is his people are going to reach out to the White House. They're going to try and say, hey, let's do this behind closed doors. There's going to be a I'm sorry, let's get the deal done. You're right. We need America's support behind us. I don't want to push you into Russia's arms here. I don't want you to be working closer with Putin than with us. I apologize. Trump's going to end up getting his deal, and Trump's going to then say, hey, Putin, we got the deal. It was a little rough getting there, but we got there and we're on the same page now. We need peace. We're not going to leave Ukraine hanging. And he's going to keep playing both sides in such a way until they both meet in the middle. That's. That's how I think Trump is playing this. He's going to use his leverage on each to get them into a position where he can use them.

[Alex Marlow]

Yeah, that's how Trump is playing it. But who knows now, because this was so surprising, that Zelensky, who you would think would be a pro by now. I know he was a comedian, but he's been president, he was president of his country for four years, and then he's been a dictator of his country for the last year. I say that only partially trolling. He certainly, as a kid, cancel elections and has a lot of the hallmarks of a dictator. And it's the. So he should be able to handle himself in these scenarios. And he couldn't. He just completely, completely messed up here. And so he does need a full Maya maxima culpa, and he needs to then sign the mineral deal. But that's why I wondered in the last hour with you guys whether or not the mineral deal is even a real thing. Like maybe there's something else going on that we're not seeing, that we can't see quite yet, that maybe will come out later. But if this really was just Zelensky freaking out and not handling himself like a. Like a diplomatic leader trying to lead a massively consequential negotiation, then he's just got to try to take a mulligan, just say, I'm sorry, let's sign the deal and let's move on. But can he do that? Is he capable of doing that when all he wants to do is beat Putin? I don't know.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. And I think that's been a really interesting dynamic here to the extent that Ukraine really wants to not have to make so many concessions they want. I mean, I think if, you know, if you look at a map of Ukraine, Ryan, maybe you can grab that for us where the territorial expansion of the Russian forces into Ukraine has happened. I think he's looking at that map and he's already piecing it apart. He's saying, like, I'm gonna give here, but I want that one. And I got. I can't come out losing all of it, essentially. And I bet you picked with.

[Alex Marlow]

He's going to lose land, particularly the stuff that Putin took under Obama, and the gravy train is going to slow down, knowing America is not going to completely stop, because unfortunately, we keep sending money overseas at insane levels, but it's not going to be what it was. And there's going to be more accountability, accountability for everything that does get sent going forward. And so he's not really looking forward to this, is that he's choosing between bad options. And I don't think he likes the current slate of bad options that Trump has presented him, which is partially why he freaked out.

[Blake]

This is breaking in the last minute from. I just wanted to get Jackie Heinrich. She has. Senator Lindsey Graham just had lunch in the Oval Office. Graham, of course, is a big Ukraine supporter. Speaking from the White House, Graham tells Fox he is devastated. My question is whether Zelinsky is redeemable in the eyes of the American people. From what everyone saw, nobody, including me, would want. Nobody, including me, would want him as our business partner. Zelensky is going to have to fundamentally change or go. Zelensky is going to be on your network tonight. If I were him, I would apologize to the President and the American people. So that is Lindsey Graham, one of the most pro Ukraine Republicans, saying Zelensky has to make big changes or to leave. And that's what we speculated an hour ago. Maybe you. Maybe Zelensky himself is the price to reopen negotiations between our countries.

[Charlie Kirk]

Can I just make an observation here and listen, Lindsey Graham is one of those guys that infuriates maga. He infuriates the base. And yet, and many times we ask ourselves, why is he keeping this snake close to him, to Trump? Why does Trump keep him close to him? And then at a moment like this, you can almost guarantee the two men talked, and Lindsey's like, I got an idea. I know how to shore this up. I know how to bring this dog to heel. I'm gonna say I was disappointed that I. Obviously, you know, it's an amazing asset in Trump's back pocket to deploy Lindsey Graham at a time like this and get him on the same page. And, and, and Lindsay's a shrewd politician. He knows. He knows who butters his bread. He knows he's got to stay in alignment with the President on this. And so him coming out saying that is, is. I mean, I'm looking at the reactions on social media. It's like, when you lose Lindsey Graham, you've lost everything. Right? I mean, it's an amazing card to play. And it speaks pretty, pretty well to Trump's ability to use different assets and use different allies and keep them close for just such a time as this.

[Alex Marlow]

So, Zelensky, Andrew, can I add something? Blake, which is so good, which is, yeah, going back to what we were talking about, where I was half joking about him being a dictator. Part of that is because he's losing popularity. And even before this happened, there's a very good chance he wouldn't win if he called an election, which is partially why he's not calling election now. His constitution does grant him the right to, you know, declare martial law, and then. And thus he doesn't have to have an election. So that's what he's doing. But again, he's. That basically gives him an indefinite. He could just declare he's at war for. For infinity and never call an election again, which is why I maintain he is a dictator. But part of is he thought he would win an election. He probably would have called it by now to get himself another four year Runway. He's not called it. And stuff like this could make it even more likely that he would lose. So maybe the move is if this thing does not get resolved very quickly and Trump is. Are the deal guys. So Trump knows how to negotiate this stuff better than I do. But maybe the move is if Zelensky does not come right back there, sign that deal, the move is to say, the Ukrainian people, they need to have an election right now, frame it up that way. And that could be a huge squeeze on Zelensky when it comes to negotiating any sort of brokered piece going forward. So Trump has a lot of moves he can play. Now. Zelensky, with his tantrum has given Trump even more leverage than he had previously, which was pretty much all of it.

[Blake]

So we have a suggestion in our show chat that I think is amusing enough to read. So Lindsey Graham says Zelensky has to fundamentally change. What if he came out tonight on Fox and seen it? Did every network delivered an apology wearing a suit and tie?

[Charlie Kirk]

I thought you were going a whole different direction there, Blake. Yes.

[Blake]

What did you think I was saying?

[Charlie Kirk]

Here we go. I don't know.

[Alex Marlow]

I know he's got to wear an Al Sharpton tracksuit. He's gonna get the Adidas tracksuit out. He's got to get the big, big metal gold chain going. What is with that look? Can we retire that look, please?

[Blake]

I don't get as upset about it as, you know. I know Tucker Carlson complains about it a lot.

[Charlie Kirk]

Daddy wasn't gonna wear a suit tie until. Till the war was over. I mean, whatever. It doesn't. It doesn't bother me.

[Blake]

Ish. Like, yeah, it's like he's supposed to be this wartime leader. I don't get worked up about it. I'm sure it probably. Maybe it's very meaningful to people in Ukraine. Maybe they like it. I don't get.

[Charlie Kirk]

We almost have. We almost have the Graham clip. Let me know when it's loaded, guys. Top priority, 291. I believe it's loaded. Go ahead and play it.

[Blake]

President Trump handled it in a fashion that if I'm China, I'm Iran, I'm. Any wood adversary, I'd be worried about right now. He gave a master class and how to stand up for America.

[Kurt Schlichter]

Okay, so what we saw.

[Charlie Kirk]

Wasn'T exactly the clip we wanted, but it's a good clip, and Lindsey Graham is. Is out there defending President Trump. Quickly, Alex, what do you make of Senator Graham's tone there?

[Lindsey Graham]

Totally.

[Kurt Schlichter]

Right.

[Alex Marlow]

But Graham is a politician, so Graham's angling for something. And I don't. I don't have a total read on it right this second, but he is right. I mean, that was, I thought, masterful by Vance and Trump. And it will go down in their historical canon as one of their best moments, defending America and doing it calmly and articulately. They presented great arguments. Trump swooping in there and Saying to Zelensky, you've no, you have no right to tell us how to feel was so perfect. It was such a classic where Trump just sees things so quickly. That was the exact right response. That was the moment of the day. Yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, no, I totally agree. To me, the most striking part about that exchange was Vance goes out on such a limb. I mean, Vance was breaking the, like, the seal in a massive way. Like, we've never seen that. The tearing of the veil. He, he's the one who started it. And Trump had an opportunity there. Either rein him back in and say, hey, everything's good, good. But he didn't. He took his side, had his back and threw down the gauntlet. It was amazing, Amazing. Quick thinking there by President Trump. And we have, we have the other Lindsey clip, right, Blake?

[Blake]

Yes. 292. I believe this is a missed opportunity. And the question for me, for the Ukrainian people, I don't know if Zelensky can ever get you to where you want to go with the United States. Either he dramatically changes or, or you need to get somebody new.

[Alex Marlow]

Senator, I don't know if you were.

[Charlie Kirk]

In the Oval Office, my. Go ahead, Blake, take us to break.

[Blake]

I, Yeah, I, again, I've said I don't, I don't dislike Zelensky as much as a lot of people on our side do. I think he was dealt a very rough hand and he could have fled his country when they were attacked. He could have set up a government in exile. He could have gone full for an oligarch, and he didn't. But he stepped in it today and we are seeing it. And there's a lot of other things going on in the world. By the way, I'm seeing breaking news now. Pope Francis is on a breathing machine. We'll see if anything happens there. A lot is going on, but right now all of the eyes are on the Ukraine deal, which fell into a shambles on live tv. There is no deal currently. It was not signed, but sounds like Zelensky hasn't left the country yet. We may see him try to do a whirlwind apology tour within the next matter of hours. What do you think we're going to see, Andrew? Do you think, do you think there's any hope for him?

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I, Yeah, and I think Charlie would agree. I know Charlie's been texting me. He's on campus right now, but he's getting news of this, of this blow up. But, yeah, listen, I think Trump, I go back to something I said before. I think Trump is a master at understanding leverage. He's shown this now. He pushes it really, really far to a point of risk that a lot of your punditry class are not comfortable with. You know, one of the basic pendulum spectrums that you can assess a human being on is their risk tolerance. Trump has a very high risk tolerance, and your punditry class does not have a risk tolerance. And so that's why they go into punditry. That's why they go and get, you know, jobs working for these outlets. And, you know, they're not entrepreneurs. Trump is an entrepreneur. He understands what it means to play high stakes poker. Yes, sometimes you're going to lose a hand or two, but I think Trump sized it up in an instant. He understands that he has a lot more leverage in this poker game than Zelinsky does. And he looked at him and he said, you got no cards. Verbatim. He said, you got no cards. Without us, you got no cards. I think what's going to happen in the next 24 to 48 hours, I don't think Zelensky is leaving. If he does leave, he's not leaving this conversation. I think what he's going to do is he's going to back channel with the White House and the staff, and he's going to try and basically apologize, say things got too heated, and I apologize. I didn't mean to disrespect you or your country. You see that indication from his tweet saying, thank you to America, thank you to potus, you know, into Congress and the American people, we need peace, and we're going to work on that. So he's understanding that our appetite for continuing to fund a kinetic war in Eastern Europe is about nothing now. I think the American people, our sympathies still lie with Ukraine. If you took the. The polling as a nation as a whole, our sympathies are with Ukraine. I certainly feel sympathetic towards the Ukrainian people, less so towards Zelensky, who I think is an uppity for foreigner who has been swindling us out of a lot of treasure and his own people out of blood. I have zero sympathy for him. But at the end of the day, I think he's going to come back. I think he's going to come back to the table and we're going to get this deal done. That's what I think. I think Trump wants this deal done. And I think if he does it, if he signs it, if Zelensky moves forward with. About. With this, I think what you're going to see is you're going to see Trump come back into the side of Zelensky, use that as leverage against Russia, and they're gonna, they're gonna hammer something out, and Ukraine's gonna have to make some concessions. There's no reality here where Ukraine does not make a lot of concessions, but they can get peace, they can't get neutrality, they can't get European troops on the border. He can get security, he can get lasting peace. But it's, you know, this is a wake up call for Vladimir Zelensky. He does not have nearly the leverage or the star approval that he thought he did in this country. And that ultimately will be a good thing. But, but I want to say this again, Blake. Do not expect the pundit class to get this. They are not going to understand this. They're taught one speed, and the one speed is that you don't do this. And Trump saying, I'm blowing up the playbook. We do whatever we need to do. We're America, and I'm gonna fight for the interests of this country, including getting our money back out of this conflict.

[Blake]

Yeah, I think with Trump, he cares about making deals. That's very much how he perceives a lot of his success as president. He cares about making deals, and he cares about being seen as the dominant player in any deal that happens. He does not want to be seen as the guy who made concessions. He wants to be seen as the one who is strong that other people came supplicating themselves to. And I think as long as he gets those things, he can be happy. So I think if Zelensky really is apologetic, if he really does prostrate himself before Trump and apologize for this and maybe offer, you know, some, maybe some additional superficial concession, I think Trump would be happy to make a deal because he does want to be the deal maker. Trump does not want to be the guy who just had Ukraine completely implode on him. So I think we'll eventually see some sort of deal reached, but we'll see how this unfolds over the coming weekend, and Charlie will definitely have a lot to say about it on Monday. We'll see you then. For more on many of these stories.

[Alex Marlow]

And news you can trust, go to charliekirk.

[Blake]

Com.