The Charlie Kirk Show
Episode: Escaping California and Defining the Two Americas with Michael Knowles
Date: December 24, 2020
Guests: Michael Knowles
Location: Turning Point USA Student Action Summit
Overview
In this episode, Charlie Kirk and guest Michael Knowles delve deeply into the cultural, political, and economic chasms dividing modern America. Recorded live at Turning Point USA’s Student Action Summit, they discuss the exodus from states like California, the emergence of “two Americas”, the role of standards and traditions in society, the future of the conservative movement, the phenomenon of “national divorce”, and broader philosophical questions about liberty, law, and self-government. The conversation is peppered with critiques of pandemic policy, reflections on history, and a call to courage for conservatives.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The State of the Country & Pandemic Culture (02:10–07:15)
- Masks and "Suddenly" moments:
- Knowles describes the world as "on its head", sharing stories about subtle resistance to mask mandates and how quickly society’s standards shifted in under a year:
“We are in the suddenly. Can you imagine ... how quickly it got so crazy? It’s been nine months. It’s 279 days of 15 days to..." – Michael Knowles (03:12)
- The hosts critique the religiosity around mask-wearing:
"It's become pseudo religious … if you do not wear the mask properly, you're a bad person." – Charlie Kirk (03:25)
2. Standards, Wokeism, and Political Correctness (05:02–07:00)
- Knowles argues that political correctness and wokeism haven't abolished standards, but replaced the old ones (like traditional behavior or gender roles) with new, often more divisive ones.
- Conservatives, they argue, have failed to defend the purpose behind old standards, which has ceded ground to the left.
3. Freedom, Risk, and Government Overreach (07:00–09:49)
- Personal anecdotes about escaping strict COVID lockdowns and policies in California.
- The Daily Wire’s move from LA to Tennessee is highlighted as emblematic of a broader trend, citing both economic (income taxes) and cultural freedom as motivators.
"Tennessee has a zero percent income tax... California's gonna have a 16% income tax soon.” – Charlie Kirk (08:22)
"We moved the whole company out to Tennessee...within two weeks of us getting there, LA completely shuts down again.” – Michael Knowles (07:56)
4. The Economic and Political Exodus from Blue States (09:49–11:10)
- They discuss businesses and individuals fleeing high-tax, high-regulation states such as California.
- Names like Elon Musk, Joe Rogan, Charles Schwab, and Oracle relocating are cited.
- Question whether blue states will notice or care about the departure of tax revenue and productive citizens.
5. The Formation of “Two Americas” and the Notion of “National Divorce” (10:21–14:47)
- Kirk and Knowles express fears about increasing fragmentation and polarization, dubbing it the emergence of “two Americas.”
- They debate the possibility and mechanics of a "national divorce"—a peaceful, negotiated separation of the country along ideological/geographical lines.
- The crisis is not of making, but of observing (11:08).
- Kaepernick’s protest against the flag is discussed as symbolic of an irrevocable divide:
“The flag is a symbol... of the whole country. When you protest the flag, you are stating in no uncertain terms that I hate the country.” – Michael Knowles (11:21)
6. Reparations, Historical Revisionism, and Where It Ends (12:51–13:34)
- They critique California’s discussions of slavery reparations, pointing out the contradictions in policy and history.
7. Bailouts, Inter-state Tension, and the Technocratic Class (18:02–21:14)
- Kirk worries that states like Tennessee and Florida will be forced to bail out mismanaged states like Illinois and California, exacerbating tensions.
- Knowles notes the philosophical danger: permanent exit from self-government leads to the breakdown of mutual respect for electoral outcomes.
8. “Jesusland” vs. the United States of Canada: Cultural Memes (20:47–21:44)
- Referencing viral memes that split the US into conservative (“Jesusland”) and liberal (“United States of Canada”) enclaves, both guests express preference for “Jesusland.”
“If you had told me, do you want to live in the United States of Canada or Jesusland? ... I think I’ll take the Jesusland, please.” – Michael Knowles (21:18)
9. Why More Don’t Resist – Fear and “Court Jester” Conservatives (22:07–24:47)
- Both hosts lament the lack of conservative courage in resisting progressive orthodoxy and mandates:
“We are a nation of cowards... [and] people that are so fearful, we forget that courage is a virtue, first of all.” – Charlie Kirk (22:07)
- Knowles coins the term “court jester conservatives” and, jokingly, “Vichy French conservatives,” for those who appease rather than oppose progressive power structures.
- They joke about identifying certain politicians as fitting these roles, with not-so-subtle references.
10. The Shift from “Woke” to “Based” and Language of Awakening (26:19–27:33)
- Explores how both right and left use the language of awakening (“woke,” “red-pilled,” “based”)—each with its own etymology and intent.
- Trump’s “anti-ideological” candidness is contrasted with political jargon; his bluntness and fulfillment of promises (e.g., the Israel embassy move) cited as strengths.
11. Conservatism, Libertarianism, and the Crisis Over First Principles (30:49–38:20)
- The conversation turns inward to the right’s own philosophical struggles:
- Debates over “Trumpism” versus establishment ideology.
- Admission that for years, conservatives idolized the free market to a fault and were late to see the downsides of dogmatic economic libertarianism.
- Critique of libertarians for their lockdown stances:
"…you want the country locked down? You have the mask on. Yes, I know.” – Michael Knowles (34:38)
- Discussion expands to classical liberalism’s limits, referencing Locke, Burke, and even the American Founders.
12. Faith, Purpose, and the Weakness of Religious Institutions (41:01–45:09)
- The conversation turns to religious freedom during lockdowns, criticizing Catholic bishops for not fighting harder to keep churches open.
“If you believed it was the body of Christ, you’d shut your church? Well, impossible.” – Charlie Kirk (43:18)
- The hosts express frustration with institutional leaders (both religious and political) perceived as lacking conviction.
13. Hope, Courage, and the Path Forward (45:14–50:14)
- The episode closes on a note of cautious optimism, grounded in the visible energy and defiance of conservative youth—thousands gathered at the Student Action Summit.
"Despair is a sin. … Hope is a virtue. It is a demand. And courage is a virtue, too." – Michael Knowles (45:43)
- Kirk emphasizes the need to break up big tech and fix mail-in voting to prevent institutional “lock-in” of unrepresentative left-leaning power.
- Both guests agree: conservatives finally have a robust, motivated base, but must learn not only to win but to govern.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
Important Segments with Timestamps
- 00:42–02:10: (Event setup and Michael Knowles introduction)
- 02:10–07:15: Mask mandates, sudden cultural shifts, and standards
- 07:56–09:49: The exodus from California, tax policy, and Daily Wire move
- 10:21–14:47: "Two Americas," national divorce, and the symbolism of the flag
- 20:47–21:44: “Jesusland” vs. United States of Canada meme
- 22:07–24:47: Lack of courage, “court jester” and “Vichy French” conservatives
- 26:19–27:33: Language of "woke," "based," and Trump’s anti-ideological stance
- 30:49–38:20: The right’s debate over first principles: Trumpism, corporate power, libertarian critique
- 41:01–45:09: Critique of religious institution’s response to lockdowns, faith and risk
- 45:14–50:14: Hope through youth activism, the future of conservatism, and the call to rebuild institutions
Tone & Language
The conversation is unscripted, frank, and often humorous, with both hosts displaying a mix of skepticism, sarcasm, and earnestness. Knowles and Kirk bounce between deep philosophical reflection and pointed, personal anecdotes, always keeping the tone energized and combative (“bring it on, baby”—24:44). The episode is unapologetically partisan, appealing to conservative listeners seeking clarity and encouragement in a turbulent year.
Final Takeaway
This episode paints a vivid picture of an America at a crossroads—not just politically, but existentially. As Kirk and Knowles dissect the symbols, policies, and personal choices dividing the nation, they challenge their audience to reclaim courage, defend standards and truth, and prepare for the battles—cultural and political—ahead.