Exposing Dr. Fauci, the Most Dangerous Bureaucrat in America with Steve Deace

Summary

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The Charlie Kirk Show: Exposing Dr. Fauci, the Most Dangerous Bureaucrat in America

Guest: Steve Deace | Date: May 1, 2021

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Overview

In this episode, Charlie Kirk hosts Steve Deace, BlazeTV commentator and author of the book Faucian Bargain: The Most Powerful and Dangerous Bureaucrat in American History. The discussion centers on Dr. Anthony Fauci’s unprecedented influence over American life during the COVID-19 pandemic, the rise of an unelected expert class, and the cultural and constitutional ruptures exposed by the pandemic response. They explore why Deace believes Fauci represents a larger systemic failure, the dangers of unchecked bureaucratic power, and practical steps for reclaiming freedom and accountability.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Write Faucian Bargain?

• Purpose of the Book (03:11):

  • Steve Deace states the core motivation: “We wrote this book, Charlie, so that this would never, ever happen again.”
  • He critiques the Imperial College model used to justify lockdowns, highlighting early expert dissent even from left-leaning or establishment sources and universities (Oxford, Yale, Stanford, Harvard).

• Notable Quote:

  "Lots of academics who probably also believe there's 57 genders ... thought this was total and complete crap. It was terrible science. And yet the entire world fell into this trap..."
  —Steve Deace [04:36]

• Book Structure: The book is heavily footnoted, providing readers with ample data and citations to argue for reopening and accountability at local and state levels.

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2. The “Faucian Bargain” & Bureaucratic Power

• Fauci's Unprecedented Influence (07:17):

  • Deace describes Fauci as “the most powerful and dangerous bureaucrat in American history," comparing his reach to J. Edgar Hoover’s.
  • Argues that Fauci, without being elected, had the authority to touch every aspect of American life—mask mandates, business/school closures, religious restrictions.

• Notable Quote:

  “There is no element of our lives that has gone untouched by the authority of Anthony Fauci. Without a single vote being cast…”
  —Steve Deace [07:17]

• Loss of Informed Consent & Second Opinions:

  • Deace laments the denial of “informed consent” and the ability to hear from dissenting experts.
  • Fauci’s career is described as “largely unremarkable” prior to COVID, with even his AIDS work in the '80s drawing controversy for sparking panic.

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3. Culture of Deference to “Experts”

• Argument from Authority (11:30):

  • Kirk and Deace critique the media and cultural attitude of not challenging “medical experts,” equating it to a logical fallacy.
  • Deace shares an analogy about geologists and worldview bias vs. true expertise (13:00).

• Notable Quote:

  “Where does the expertise end and the worldview bias begin?”
  —Steve Deace [13:09]

• Social Attitudes:

  • Kirk notes a cultural shutdown of debate: "'The doctors and the science say,' and there is no discussion past that at all." [15:23]
  • Both argue this trend is a “conversation stopper” with real consequences for freedom.

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4. The Extra-Constitutional State and the “Expert Class”

• Bureaucratic State as Hydra (16:52):

  • Deace asserts that removing Fauci alone won't solve the problem: “Anthony Fauci is a hydra... you cut the head off, there will be another one to take its place.”
  • References Eisenhower’s farewell address warning about “tyranny of the expert class.”

• Notable Quote:

  “The Constitution begins with the words ‘we the people’, not ‘them the experts.’”
  —Steve Deace [18:16]

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5. President Trump’s Handling of Fauci and the Pandemic

• Missed Opportunities (19:21):

  • Both fault Trump for not separating sooner from Fauci and bringing in alternative voices (e.g., Scott Atlas).
  • Deace supports giving leeway for the “first 15 days” due to uncertainty, but sees “30 days to slow the spread” as the fatal error.

• Notable Moment:

  • Deace shares attempts to contact Trump’s inner circle to get alternative data and opinions into the White House.

• Lesson:

  “If we could do one thing differently...the president should have gone, ‘Wisdom and a multitude of counsel...’ We never did that. We never got a second opinion.”
  —Steve Deace [22:19]

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6. State Responses: The DeSantis Model

• Ron DeSantis Praised (25:31):

  • Deace lauds Florida Governor Ron DeSantis for ignoring the narrative, following data, and bucking pressure regarding COVID policies.
  • Contrasts this with failures in other Republican-led states.

• Quote:

  “If there was ever a Republican who could have justified being just a complete wimp...it would have been Ron DeSantis...But instead, he followed the data and the science and went contrarian...”
  —Steve Deace [28:57]

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7. The Lasting Legacy: Politics as “Public Health”

• Weaponizing Public Health (31:23):

  • Deace points out how “public health” is now a justification for all manner of policy overreach—gun violence, social issues, even ideological conformity.

• Notable Quote:

  “Covid is not an outlier. It's an omen...These are the new rules of engagement of political and cultural warfare in America.”
  —Steve Deace [33:11]

• Speculation on Future Overreach:

  • Kirk: “We are going to have mandated lockdowns once a week or once a month in the next decade to try to fight climate change. I'm telling you.” [33:18]

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8. Call to Action: What Can Listeners Do?

• Information as Power (36:48):

  • Deace urges listeners to arm themselves with data and be active—take information to school boards, organize, refuse to comply with senseless mandates.

• Sweden as a Control Group:

  • Presents data from Sweden: one of the least restrictive countries with lower excess deaths compared to most of the EU, challenging the necessity of strict lockdowns.

• Political Will Over Laws:

  “We are a nation of political will and always will be...Take the information here and fight back with it.”
  —Steve Deace [39:09]

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Memorable Quotes

• “You can't rally people against an esoteric notion. You must personalize it.” —Charlie Kirk [17:07]
• “We have to force our elected officials to act on it. And don’t take no for an answer.” —Steve Deace [39:17]
• “Protect first principles… Because this idea that we are even gonna entertain what happened in this last year is acceptable is so beyond reprehensible to me.” —Charlie Kirk [39:24]

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Notable Timestamps

• 03:11 — Why Deace wrote Faucian Bargain
• 07:17 — Fauci’s power over American life
• 13:09 — On expertise vs. worldview
• 16:52 — “Expert class” and the hydra of bureaucracy
• 19:21 — Critique of the Trump administration’s COVID strategy
• 25:31 — Praise for Ron DeSantis and alternate state-level responses
• 31:23 — Public health as a political weapon
• 36:48 — Call to action: organize, utilize information, push back

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Conclusion

Kirk and Deace sound a warning over the rise of unelected “experts” as arbiters of public policy, spotlighting Fauci as both a symptom and symbol of an overgrown bureaucratic state. They urge listeners to be skeptical, become informed, and organize at the local level to reclaim constitutional freedoms. The conversation is combative, urgent, and thick with culture-war rhetoric—a call not just to “own the libs,” but to challenge the whole framework that allows for unaccountable “experts” to wield so much power.

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Transcript

[A]

This episode is brought to you by our friends who can protect your data and anonymize your [e-mail] charlie e x p r e s s v p n.com charlie protect yourself against big tech and big brother. Hey everybody on the program today, Steve Dace from the Blaze. Very smart guy. He has a new book out called Fauci and Bargain where he goes out after Dr. Anthony Fauci. Comprehensively from a fact first standpoint, I really enjoyed this conversation. He really had a lot to offer. I enjoyed it. If you want to support us, go to charliekirk.com support email us your thoughts freedomarliekirk.com I want to thank Cynthia from Texas. I want to thank Tyler from Oklahoma. I want to thank Connor from Massachusetts. And I want to thank Shia from Maine. God bless you guys for supporting [e-mail] support Buckle up everybody. Here we go.

[B]

Go.

[A]

We are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

[B]

Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks. But I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job.

[A]

We are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. Are you still going to the post office? Still paying full price for postage? Well, thanks to stamps.com, you don't have to anymore. Mail and ship anytime, anywhere right from your computer. Send letters, ship packages and pay less, a lot less with discounted rates from USPS, UPS and more. Stamps.com saves businesses hundreds of thousands of hours and tons of money every year. Stamps.com brings the service to the US Postal Service and UPS right to your computer. It's a must have for any business whether you're a small office sending invoices or side hustle, Etsy shopping, shipping out orders. With stamps.com you get up to 40% off post office rates and save up to 66% off UPS shipping rates. Stamps.com is a no brainer, saving you time and money. No wonder nearly 1 million small businesses already use stamps.com stop wasting time going to the post office so go to stamps.com instead. There's no risk with my promo code. Charlie, just go to stamps.com, click on the microphone at the top of the page and type in Charlie. That's stamps.com, promo code. Charlie, stamps.com, never go to the post office again. Hey everybody. Welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show. With us today is Steve Dase. Very smart guy who I love his tweets even though I deleted Twitter. People send them to me quite often. And he has a new book, very important book, can't wait to explore it with him. The Faucian Bargain. Steve, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.

[B]

Charlie, it's a pleasure to be with you and congrats on your success, man. Well earned.

[A]

Thank you, I appreciate that. And I think we met briefly five years ago at a cruise thing and I hope our paths cross again. So I love the thesis behind this book and I love the title. And I have to compliment you, the picture you chose for your book is perfect. It is absolutely perfect. And I just, I wanna say one thing, because the podcast audience, they can't see it, so they have to go buy the book to see it. It's a picture of Trump's back walking out and Fauci just with this sinister. It's just a perfect. It's a 10 out of 10. Steve, why'd you write this book?

[B]

We wrote this book, Charlie, so that this would never, ever happen again. What's gone down in the last year, and what blew me away about this entire story is I really thought when I started pushing back on the Imperial College model, looking at its premise, its conclusions, the plot holes of data that existed within it. For example, the entire model is predicated on how it believes coronavirus will spread to the population, while also admitting it doesn't know really how coronavirus spreads. Other than that, you know, this is some very sound logic. I really thought when I first started pushing back on this last year that it was gonna be a proxy fight for global warming. And it would still be, it would be the Charlie Kirks and Steve Daces and Breitbarts and Blazes of the world against academia, Right? What really shocked me is the day after the Imperial College model came out, Dr. Sunitre Gupta at Oxford University was quoted in the pages of the Economist, a left leaning publication, saying that this model is bunk. It's not real science, it's not epidemiology. This should not be our policy here in the UK. The first weekend of lockdowns, you saw Dr. Tony Katz of Yale University in the pages of the New York Times, saying, locking down the healthy isn't the way to go. Michael Osterholm from the center for Infectious Diseases at the University of Minnesota, now working in the Biden administration, wrote virtually the same thing the first weekend in the Washington Post. And as time went on, more and more experts from elite universities, Stanford University, before we even knew what a Scott Atlas was, they were conducting seroprevalence studies that showed a lot of the calculations we have about when this virus arrived and therefore when the curve began to rise are way off. Martin Koldorff, who helped design the VAERS site for CDC at a Harvard University. I could give you lists and lists of names of experts at places. I mean the entire center for Evidence Based Medicine at Oxford, that's the number one, based on number one ranked university in the world. Charlie, according to U.S. news and World Report. Lots of academics who probably also believe there's 57 genders and the world's gonna fry from global warming in 10 years thought this was total and complete crap. It was terrible science. And yet the entire world fell into this trap. The one country that didn't, Sweden, is the country that exported Greta Thunberg to the world, which just shows how crazy this is. And so we thought somebody needed to supply the average American with the real data and that they're not being told by their media and by their so called experts so they can get their country back. And that's what we have in the book Fauci and Bargain. It has more footnotes than pages so that you can go and make the argument to your governors, your legislators, school boards, et cetera.

[A]

So first of all, the title is brilliant. It's a play off of an idea, the Faustian Bargain, which is basically a deal with the devil. That's the best way I can explain it. I believe it comes from a play from like the 1500s, if I remember. Faust was the name of it anyway.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Terrific, is really good title. And again, the picture on the COVID is just so awesome. Because the deeper truth of the book. I haven't read the book. I read a couple parts of it that was sent to me, just excerpts. And the endorsements are phenomenal. But what you're getting at here is that an unelected, basically unknown technocrat was running all of our public policy decisions. And the picture, I think embodies that because the person who people actually voted for, the person that is within our constitutional system, he's being manipulated and puppeteered by this sociopath. Talk to us about Dr. Fauci, the person, because that's actually what you lead with. Right? And I wanna get to the things you were talking about, but you say it's the most. He was the most powerful and dangerous bureaucrat in American history. That's quite a statement. More than J. Edgar Hoover, more than some of these guys that have had.

[B]

Tell me why everybody that's gonna listen to us in this podcast, Charlie, everybody, whether it's Can I go outside and breathe air without a mask? Can my kids be in school? Can I have a business? Can I have a job? Can I go to an event? Can I go worship at a church? Can I worship in my home with other people? Can I see my sick mom or grandmother, sick father, grandfather? There is no element of our lives that has gone untouched by the authority of Anthony Fauci. Without a single vote being cast, mail order or any other method, no vote was cast? No. The government. This is supposed to be government. By the consent of the governed, yes. No one consented to this. On top of that, we have been denied.

[A]

Really.

[B]

What I would argue are two of the bedrock principles of our health care system. Number one, informed consent. Number the idea that if, you know, you go to a doctor and he says you've got a mass on a sensitive part of your body, an extremity on your brain, and here's what'll happen if we don't remove it. So we gotta remove it right now. The idea that you don't have a say in that, you don't get to ask, is the cure worse than the disease? What's my recovery time look like? What's the rehab look like? If we remove that thing from my brain, will I be a vegetable? Will I be able to get back to some form of normalcy? And then maybe you'll make the decision that living 10 years that way isn't as good as living out the next 18 months, months, still being able to love people and have them know and love you. I mean, those are the things. With informed consent, we get to make those decisions. And we've never been offered that this entire time. And on top of that, we've never been offered a second opinion. I mean, the idea that you immediately have to go under the knife, no matter how dire it is, and cannot get a second opinion, that is not how we operate here with our healthcare system. Yet we were denied hearing from these counter experts at these elite academic institutions. Why? Because Anthony Fauci, except for the AIDS crisis in the 80s, is a largely unremarkable figure you cannot really point to again, other than aids. And he's been there. He's one of the longest serving bureaucrats currently in government. He's the highest paid bureaucrat currently in government. You cannot point. This isn't even Francis Collins, who he works with at nih, who mapped the human genome. Whether you think Francis Collins is right about COVID or not, and I don't, mapping the human genome is a pretty illustrious accomplishment. I would guess. And this is a rather unremarkable figure. This is not somebody, for example, that's anywhere near the name, escapes me right now, of the gentleman that was considered the Frenchman who was considered the leading infectious disease expert until President Trump unfortunately mentioned his work on hydroxychloroquine. Didier Rial. That's right. He was considered the world's foremost expert on infectious disease until he mentioned hydroxychloroquine and Trump quoted him. And then suddenly he became a quack. You can't really point to anything like that with Anthony Fauci other than his work on aids. And originally he was highly criticized for not taking it seriously and sparking panics. I'm a little bit older than you, so you don't remember when we all were told that we could get AIDS off a toilet seat at school, for example. All right, the panic that went on in the 1980s over that, very similar, in a way, to what's going on with COVID that it was going to spread into the heterosexual community and kill just as many heterosexual as it did in the homosexual community, which, of course, never occurred. A lot of the same scarecat tactics and politicization of that virus went on with this one. He was involved with that as well. But other than that, most of his career is largely unremarkable. And I think that's important for our audience to understand because he's 80. If he had retired five years ago, 10 years ago, like a lot of people at that age group do it, this would have largely been the same. This is the construct of the swamp. If he were gone, another creature would have emerged from the black lagoon. Maybe it would have been Debbie. Bedazzle, your face shield Burks. And I get to visit my parents on Thanksgiving. While I tell you to stay home. Who knows who it would have been? That's the point. None of us knew who the hell. What the hell Anthony Fauci was, you know, 18 months ago, and now he's Max Headroom in all of our homes. He's omnipresent. That's the point of the bureaucratic state. If it wasn't going to be him, it was. It was just gonna be somebody else.

[A]

So there's three things I wanna unpack with how Anthony Fauci was able to have so much power. Two of them are a symptom, I think, of a system, and one of them I actually place on President Trump because he could have actually changed something. And I say this as obviously a vocal Trump supporter, and I've said this before. The first is this idea that we're not allowed to challenge medical experts, like the minute they go on tv, no matter what they say. It is the ultimate logical fallacy. Argument from authority. I'm a doctor. You're not. Sit down and obey. When in reality this stuff actually is. It's complicated. But the end result isn't that complicated. Right. There's some very basic. You need just a very elementary understanding of chemistry and biology, science, math, and kind of risk analysis to make some of these decisions.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And once you present these studies, they're not that hard to follow for smart people that just take the time. I truly believe that.

[B]

Can I address that individually, since you just made that point? Do you mind really?

[A]

Yeah, please do. And I have two more, so don't let me forget. But yeah, please go into that one. Yeah.

[B]

Because this is a very important point that you're making. I had to do this with my audience over with our podcast over at BlazeTV. I had to do this from the very beginning. I had to separate expertise from the, from the worldview bias. And the analogy I gave my audience, Charlie, is if I go to the Grand Canyon, all right, I want to have, and I have a decorated geologist giving me a tour, the world's most renowned geologist. I'm going to be very honored to have him give me a tour and explain sediment formations and things that are beyond my area of expertise. And I'm going to defer to that expertise, provided it stays in that realm. But then when he turns to me and says, and of course we know that all of this Majesty you're now gazing upon, all happened because 20 billion years ago, one single celled protein combined with an amino acid caused the big bang. And now, through a series of natural random coincidences, billions of years later, here we are. That's what I'm going to call horse, horse pucky. Because we moved beyond your expertise to your worldview bias. Where does the expertise end and the worldview bias begin? Because again, we have been denied the fact there are lots of experts here with a counter opinion. Two weeks ago, Governor DeSantis hosted a conference. Experts from Harvard, Stanford and Oxford. These are three universities 99.9% of this planet cannot get admitted to. And yet some skinny gene wearing algorithm, you know, avocado test, toast obsessed, you know, algorithm runner at Facebook, decided you could. I'm sorry, YouTube decided he knew more about this than these people did. That's the problem here. It's that it's not even the expertise, but it was only one narrative of expertise.

[A]

I have to tell you about this incredible movie, Roe vs. Wade. This is not a documentary. It's a real Hollywood movie with actors like Jon Voight, friend of mine, Stacey Dash, and John Schneider from Dukes of Hazzard, Steve Guttenberg from Police Academy, and even LA Law's Corbin Bernson. Not some boring movie about a court case. No, no, no. I was blown away to learn about how Planned Parenthood manipulated the courts and lied to the media back in the 70s, all for power and greed. And this was a mass conspiracy, including the corruption of Supreme Court justices. Literally the most famous court case in American history that everyone has heard about, but no one knew anything about. Finally, the truth comes out. Hollywood and the media have tried to stop this movie from coming out. It could get canceled any moment and banned every day. So go see it right now before they remove it from itunes, Amazon or Google Play, or download it from your major cable or satellite carrier. It's on demand. Enjoy Roe vs Wade, the movie today. Yeah, you're right. And I will say though, that there is a. It's a conversation stopper, especially in medicine, and it's something that has to change in these upper middle class communities. And I was raised in one of those in the suburbs of Chicago. And visiting back. It is this incantation. Well, the doctors and the science say, and there is no discussion past that at all. It doesn't matter if you say, well, I could tell you that I think hydroxychloroquine is working with this friend I gave it to and all of a sudden they saw rapid change. Or what about this doctor? No, no, no. It is submitted science sealed and blood versus that's number one. This kind of untouchable new kind of cable pundit that we are introduced to in the last year that I think the left is only going to use against us more. Which is why I want to just thank you for your book. If we do not call BS on this new authority figure, that is never really. You're right, The AIDS thing's a good example, but this is a whole new phenomenon, the Restriction of freedom and Liberty. Because I have a title that I'm a doctor and I'm gonna go do 100 cable news hits. And all of a sudden I could turn off the American project like that's never happened before. Number two, and I'm sure you talk about this in your book, is that we are living in an extra constitutional state where the Dr. Anthony Fauci, you're right. If he would have been replaced it would have just been there could have been someone even worse. I know it's hard for people to believe, but there might have been someone even more power hungry than Fauci and even more sociopathic. Do you talk about that in the book? About how we're in this extra constitutional moment?

[B]

Absolutely, absolutely. And we begin the book that way because though he's on the COVID and you understand successful political activism, you can't rally people against an esoteric notion.

[A]

No, I love how you personalize it. It's one of Alinsky's rules. You must personalize it.

[B]

You've got to give people a villain to rally against. But understand that Anthony Fauci is a hydra. You know, if you know the mythological reference, you cut the head off, there will be another one to take its place. And we get into that in the very beginning of the book. We quote from President Eisenhower's farewell address, and a lot of times the fear of the military industrial complex that he talks about has been quoted so many times. But there's another aspect of that farewell address where he warns the American people about the rise of essentially tyranny of the expert class, that we're on the cutting edge of scientific post World War II scientific advancements never seen before in human history. Enjoy those. They'll bring you great blessing. But don't allow that to be where you mentioned the fossibility of the appeal to authority. I hand over my freedoms and liberties now because so and so has this many abbreviations of accommodation after his name. The Constitution begins with the words we the people, not them the experts.

[A]

It's well said, it's very wise. I'm a big Eisenhower fan. I know that not all Republicans are, but he loved his country and he was willing to call balls and strikes. Now we have a medical industrial complex. Go figure that one out. So then the third thing that I'm not sure if you talk about, and I say this as a supporter of President Trump, he should have went scorched earth on these people early. He should have quarantined himself from these medical experts, and he should have had the right people like Scott Atlas around him early. Now, the only danger to that is that Fauci and these people would have been on cable television blaming him even more for all these deaths, but they were doing that anyway. And so I don't think that that could have been any worse than it was. That's the only counter argument that I've heard is like, well, Charlie, we would have created this whole kind of like, dissident Kind of, you know, it helped to have them close and then they didn't totally turn against us. I'm not totally sure that's a good argument. What do you make of that? Do you think that there should have been at least some separation from this kind of permanent bureaucratic medical establishment and the president?

[B]

From the very beginning, I thought 15 days to flatten the curve was a terrible idea, but I think mercy can triumph over judgment. Given the fact that, that we were also being told from our intelligence sources, you couldn't trust what we were hearing from China and the WHO. Amazingly, that tweet from last January 31st that the Chinese confirm there's no human to human transmission of CoroNavirus on the WHO Twitter account is actually still up. They don't even have the self awareness to delete that tweet.

[A]

And Twitter allows it to stay up. Of course they do.

[B]

Yes. You can still go and find it. Okay, so. So I think we can all not backseat drive and Monday morning quarterback to the point of giving every elected leader the benefit of the doubt for that first 15 days. Where I think this thing went off the rails was the 30 days to slow the spread. That is where the blue state governor said, thank you for the precedent. We'll take it from here. We can get our tyranny on in all forms. And a few red state governors did as well. I mean, Mike DeWine in Ohio has just. Is ridiculous. I mean, I've seen him compose literal sonnets to Covid and coronavirus. He thinks he's Winston Churchill. I'm saving the people of Ohio against a virus with a 1.7% Chamberlain. Yeah, well, that's more like it. Yes. With a 1.7% CFR. And I think that's where the narrative to this was lost. If we could go back in time, hop in the DeLorean and go back in time. And I have had, and I mean, I'm not. Wasn't as well connected in that world as you were, but there are several people that worked in the Trump White House even at a high level, Hogan Gidley, Kellyanne Conway, that I had relationships with prior to the Trump White House. And I've always been hesitant about, you know, tapping into those because part of my job also is to be, is to be at least somewhat objective in my analysis. And it's hard to do that with personal relationships. And then, you know, your friends feel like, you know, you kind of turned on them. So I've always viewed it maybe when, when they're in active office, like we just Put the friendship on hold. You do your job, I'll do mine. And let's not cross the streams like in Ghostbusters. But in this case, I violated one of my own rules. I spent months contacting, emailing anybody I knew maybe that maybe had coffee or something with. With Donald Trump one time. Okay, you know, we're losing the narrative here. Do you know who a Sunitre Gupta is? Do you know who a Martin Koldorff is? Do you know what? Carnegie Mellon. Where Carnegie Mellon University, Ro. Rockefeller Universities are all places that are pushing back on this narrative. The 30 Days to Slow the spread. If we could do one thing differently, it would have been before they gave up. During those first 15 days, Charlie, the president should have gone. Wisdom and a multitude of counsel to quote Proverbs, brought all of these experts in. All right. Hey, we took a timeout like in a college basketball game. The momentum's going against you. You call a timeout to slow the other team down. We're doing that right now. We're slowing the spread, flattening the curve, making sure our hospital systems don't get overrun. But how serious, how terrible is this? We have to come up with our own. We got to terraform this thing from the very beginning. Our own real time data. We can't trust China. So I'm going to put all of you in a room. We're going to put this on camera on C Span White House feed, unedited. Everyone can watch. We're going to put an expert steel cage match and you guys go back and forth with each other and the best ideas are coming out of that room. And that's what I'm going to do. We never did that. We never got a second opinion. And I think by the time they figured out that they were. That Fauci was utilizing them for whatever his ultimate purpose is.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that this was a. This was a. This was a scam. They. He had. He had been permitted to use the platform of the White House to build himself up into an almost mythological status.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That the blowback against getting rid of him, you know, the point of diminishing returns had not been reached yet. If they. And I'm okay with that. This is what's different maybe with guys like you and I because we've been a part of and worked on campaigns. It's not so, you know, I'm an ideologue. But it's different when you've been on a campaign and you see how the nuts and bolts of the process and how minds are really made up. And you understand it's not as cut and dried of a process as it is from the outside. But they could have found a point of diminishing returns earlier. I mean, I'm emailing. I'm emailing Jenny Thomas, Clarence Thomas, his wife, who's got. Who counts Mike Pence as a friend and things of that nature. Hey, see if they know who. And this is his. His task force. Right. Do they know who Scott Atlas is? We were one of the first shows to have him on right after his first piece in the Hill in May of last year. You know, put him in Foushee's place, get a control of this narrative. I would argue it wasn't until the President got Covid himself, got treated with things like Regeneron and came out of the hospital that he actually got on the narrative that he should have been on probably in July and August to push back more successfully on the teachers unions. They just, once they got behind the curve, Charlie, with 30 days to slow the spread, they just could never get ahead of the narrative again after that.

[A]

Yeah, and it always should have been focused on therapeutics, not lockdowns. And this vaccination stuff. The vaccine was a false promise. No one actually believed it in the sense of it wasn't going to happen anytime soon. And the whole framing should have always been, we're in a political moment. Are we going to use this as a chance to get four more years or to lose miserably? And I know a lot of people that were making those decisions. And I say this as obviously a loyal supporter. Right. I was very frustrated with some of that. And so now I want to focus on a positive of this because I think that if this would have been handled on a federal level like someone handled it on a state level, then I think things could have been a lot different. And so one of the aspects of our country that made us not like the rest of the world is the fact that we have a state based system. The fact that there was a difference between Charlie Baker and Ron DeSantis. Ron DeSantis is the quote on the front of your book. Get specific. What decisions did he make that were bold, wise, and courageous, and what were the results of those decisions?

[B]

He followed data and not narrative. It's funny, when we were requesting to get Governor DeSantis endorsement for the book, and I anticipated it would be something fairly benign if we got one, but instead he went right after fauciism. He's using that term as if it's just mere theorizing. Or sociopathic malevolent BSing, which is what I think it is. I agree. And what he went after was, what does the data show? He actually, you know, this may be the only time I'm gonna say in the last year or so. Let me defend Anthony Fauci on something. But the other day when he was being questioned by Jim Jordan and I felt like, you know, the House Freedom Caucus bought 5,000 copies of this book to spread around. So I wonder if Jim's had a chance to look at it or read it, because he was grilling Anthony Fauci pretty hard, which I enjoyed. But he asked him where he balanced the constitution with all of this. And Fauci said, well, I don't. I would actually argue that's really not his job. I mean, if you and I have a serious ailment, we don't want our doctor balancing treatment on the base of what he thinks the insurance company will cover. Right. That's a reality of the situation. I mean, someone's gotta pay for this. But we want him in that role. His highest motivation to be, how do I get well? And so I don't think it was necessarily Fauci's job to balance the constitutional aspects of this. I think it was his job to. To look at contrary data to his own narrative and seek counsel outside of his own narrative, which he didn't do. I think it was actually the governors and the executives jobs, the mayor's jobs, the people who sit in executive offices in the executive branch. It was their job to consider the broader implications of this, which is if we shut down hospitals for this long. Here's one of the stats in our book that's gonna blow people away. Last year, hospitalizations in America, Charlie, were actually collectively 8% lower than pre Covid industry forecast heading into the year 20, 28% lower. All right, and so what does that mean? It means people didn't go in for cancer screenings like they used to. People didn't go in for a lot of preventative things. Heart disease screening, screenings. That's the number one killer in our culture. Over 600 deaths a year. How did we come up with these vaccines so fast? Well, it wasn't just the funding, but I'll bet you that these cutting edge pharmaceutical companies took their entire R and D departments and put them on COVID vaccinations. Which means we also lost a year of cutting edge cancer treatments and therapies and exploration. We lost a year of virtually everything in this process because there was no balance brought to it. We were told, this is Captain Trips. It's the walking dead. We have to do something about this right now. It's important to do something about this right now. But what's the downside? What's the law of unintended consequences here? And that's really the job of elected officials to do that on our behalf. If we shut schools down for a year, what do we do in terms of childhood development? What does that do in terms of the mental health of both the parents and the students? No one asked any of those kinds of questions, really, until a few governors. Ron was one of the very first, I would argue, our governor here, where I live in Iowa, Kim Reynolds did a lot of this from the very beginning. Now, what helped her, I think, is the fact that we also here in Iowa help feed most of the world with the ag industry. You shut us down, millions and millions of people all over the world are gonna starve. And so Kim kind of had an incentive built in to push back against this, like a lot of other governors didn't. But in Ron DeSantis's case, I mean, you're talking about the ultimate swing state. The last 11 presidential elections in Florida have been decided by an average of two and a half points. So Trump winning by four and a half points is a veritable landslide in that state. Guy won by 40,000 or 50,000 votes. I believe you're also talking about the second largest elderly population in America. If there was ever a Republican who could have justified being just a complete wimp and punking out on this, it would have been Ron DeSantis under those circumstances. But instead, he followed the data and the science and went contrarian against everyone else instead because he followed data and science. And too many of our executives still aren't doing that.

[A]

Charlie Kirk here, and I've warned you about home title theft, where cyber thieves remove you from your home's title and you become the owner. Like I said, you better get home title lock, because it's coming. Well, if you are on Facebook, that big data breach is here. Facebook has 500 million accounts that were exposed to cyber thieves. And according to a retired FBI cybercrime expert, everything thieves need to take over as the new owner of your home was leaked. Name, address, personal information, and more. It's out there. The thief forges your signature on a quit claim deed stating you sold your home to him. He'll leave you in debt or even have you evicted. Do what I did and protect your home's title with hometitlelock.com go to hometitlelock.com and register your address. See if you're already a victim. Then Sign up for 30 free days of protection during this high risk breach. Again, go to hometitlelock.com promo code radio that's hometitlelock.com promo Code radio there's a lot of data out there. There's a lot of things that you got to sort out right now. So go to hometitlelock.com protect yourself, protect your family, protect your well being. @hometitlelock.com promo code radio and he had courage too, which is he was unafraid of what they would call him. And he persisted nonetheless. And he has a success story to show for it. Where the rest of the many of the other states like Ohio and Massachusetts with Republican governors have been a complete and total disaster. I mean, Ron has been amazing on almost every single one of these other issues. So, Steve, I want to close on this thought. I want to explore it with you. I'm not convinced we're in a place where this is never gonna happen again. I think we're more proud to have this happen again. What do we have to do to draw the line in the sand? Learn the lesson. Did we learn a lesson?

[B]

If we don't, we're gonna get ample opportunities to learn it again. Okay. You know, there's an old proverb, a Japanese business proverb when they were competing against us head to head in the auto industry in the 80s and they used to say to each other, americans don't have the time to do the job right the first time, but they certainly find the time to do the job over again. Okay. And you heard Anthony Fauci was just. And I'm sure this was not an innocent question just out of nowhere asked by Dana Bash on CNN over the weekend. Is gun violence a public health situation? Last week, the head of the CDC referred to non or lack of wokeism as a public health problem. They figured out, you know, they've been trying to all these culture war issues that have been so divisive for decades in America where we have strong feelings and I have my own, from gay marriage to abortion, things of that nature. And yet despite them, we still found the opportunity to share Americana together. Sporting events, church, things of that nature, schools they couldn't, the spirit of the age could not figure out what do we have to do to make this personal? So on a house to house, street by street basis, you won't go out of your home because Karen in the cul de sac will make Your life a living hell if you do without a mask. How do we do that to you? And they figured out through Covid, the words public health are the Rosetta stone. That's how we open sesame. That's how we bring the battle home. So you can't go anywhere without a lecture. You can't watch anything without being sermonized. Everything now is a battle everywhere you go. And so since this tactic worked, where this is concerned, Charlie, they're gonna do this on virtually every issue. Covid is not an outlier. It's an omen. This is how. These are the new rules of engagement of political and cultural warfare in America. And we better be prepared to confront it, because this is, pardon the expression, politically anyway, the new normal.

[A]

We are going to have mandated lockdowns once a week or once a month in the next decade to try to fight climate change. I'm telling you.

[B]

Right? Yeah, yeah.

[A]

We are going to have WOKE passports where you are not allowed to stay at certain Marriott or Hilton hotels if you have not gone through critical race theory training. It's happening.

[B]

I don't. Imperial College's biggest benefactor, and this is mentioned in the book as well, the biggest benefactor of Imperial College, which was the original model. It's funny, the UK was originally going to pursue a Swedish model, and then the Imperial College model came up and then Boris Johnson has done lost his damn mind ever since. Okay, that's terrible. Well, Imperial College, one of its biggest benefactors is a man named Jeremy Grantham. Jeremy Grantham is a multi billionaire. He has donated over 80% of his wealth to stopping what he calls the 250 year bubble caused by fossil fuels. He is a radical AOC style environmentalist, which is why when you read the Imperial College model, all of their solutions to this are proto versions of a reset of a green New Deal. That's not a coincidence. In fact, shortly after the Imperial College model came out, they came out with another paper which got almost no fanfare, saying that this is now our opportunity to re institute, reinitiate Western civilization in a more environmentally friendly way. And I think that should also be something. Audiences like ours need to be aware of that. Look how quickly Covid shows up. Whether it came from a Chinese lab or we just got Wuhan for luck one day at a wet market. Or maybe it came from a. It came from the natural world, but they were trying to alter it. Who knows? Okay, but regardless of its origins, once it got airborne into the general population, look how fast the spirit of the age had multiple sectors within its Operation mobilized to act on this right away. It took 10 minutes for Bill Gates to be on TV talking about vaccinations and boosters. They were ready to go. They were ready to pounce on this. And that's the other thing to keep in mind. If it wasn't coronavirus, they just would have pounced on something else.

[A]

Yeah. It just so happens this one was especially different. And it just lended itself to every imaginable totalitarian and tyrannical impulse out there. Every single one. Is that because no one wants to die? And they are willing to give up everything if they think that the person in charge is going to keep them safe? Safetyism versus liberty, which is unfortunately. We let this happen. And so I guess my final, final, final question, Steve, is what can people do about this? Obviously, buy the book. It's Fauci and bargain. You've said some very wise things, and you have a lot of courage to write this book. I hope you can actually force a response from Fauci of this book. I really do.

[B]

Well, we've had over 100 members of our audience send copies of this book to his office, and they're actually signing for it. So they've gotten it. I know that.

[A]

How do.

[B]

Here's the number one thing I would

[A]

like to do that.

[B]

Amazon lets you send it to any address you want, actually.

[A]

Yeah, So I get the thing you have to do. Amazon. A bunch of maniacs.

[B]

Yeah. The 83% of all books in America are sold through Amazon.

[A]

I can't stand Amazon. I want to talk to you later about corporate tyranny, but it actually ties into this, interestingly. What can people do, Steve? People feel helpless. People are like, Charlie, I do my own little silent protest when I walk through the grocery store with my mask on my chin, not on my mouth. Like, that's not going to save the West. Okay? But what can people do?

[B]

You know, information is the ultimate weapon of mass destruction. Whoever controls the flow of information has control. One of the seminal dates in Western Civilization is all Hallows Eve 1517. And that is the date. A little Augustinian, a cranky little Augustinian monk named Martin Luther went to the doors of his seminary in Wittenberg and nailed 95 theses to a door. Now, he had no idea what this information. Then he had it printed on Gutenberg's printing press and started sharing it. He had no idea, ultimately, that putting that information into people's hands would change the course of Western civilization, which it did. And 500 years later, when the History Channel did their most Important people the millennium. He was number two on the list. Okay, so what you can do with this information, it now comes down to what our audience is. We've compiled it for you. It's in your hands. You now need to take this to your school boards and refuse to take yet no for an answer. You're in charge. Assert your authority. Government by the consent of the governed. We're not a nation of laws and never have been. We are a nation of political will and always will be. If you haven't seen that with BLM in the last year, it doesn't matter how many laws they break. They have political will and so they gain power. We can do the exact same thing. The data is on our side. Take it to your school boards. Be relent. No more just one woman walking into a Rite Aid or a Costco without a mask. 10 guys from now on are walking into Walmart together. We're not doing this any longer. It's good. A triple braided cord is tougher to break. Have the confidence in the information in this book that the data is on your side. One of the. One of the mic drop pieces of data in the entire book. So Sweden last year did one short lockdown at the end of the year. And their version of lockdown was a 10 o' clock curfew for restaurants and bars. That was their lockdown. They have the lowest mask compliance in the European Union. Last year Sweden had 8% higher excess deaths than its previous four year average. The rest of the European Union that all did lockdowns and masks averaged 12 to 18% higher excess deaths compared to their four year average. That's Sweden for the win. We have a control group. The data's on our side. But we have to force our elected officials to act on it. And don't take no for an answer. And you need to force your corporations to act on it too. It is time to start lobbying. Lawsuits. Do I have a right to breathe? Do you have a right in an airline to force my toddler to re ingest their bacteria riddled face diaper? These are questions we. Now it is time for us to take the information here and fight back with it.

[A]

I agree. We should be a nation of political will and Republicans better start using whatever political power you have before the time runs out. Protect first principles. Because this idea that we're gonna, we are gonna, we are even gonna entertain what happened in this last year is acceptable is so beyond reprehensible to me. So everyone go buy this book, go send it to Dr. Anthony Fauci's National Institute of Health. However you do that, nih.gov, you can find the website. It's probably some K Street address next to some ridiculous pharmaceutical companies, lobbying firm, whatever. Send lots of books there and buy one yourself because get the data. You're right. Information is power. Spoken like a true Protestant, talking glowingly of Martin Luther. I'll get lots of emails from our Catholic listeners on that, but I don't care. But thank you.

[B]

My co author's Catholic, so he'll be fine with it too. It's okay.

[A]

Yeah, it's fine. Yeah. Aquinas changed the world too. And Martin Luther built the West. Thank you, Steve. You're terrific and very wise. Just continue to make lots of noise. Everyone needs to know what you're talking about. I appreciate it very much.

[B]

Thank you, Charlie. Appreciate the time, brother. Take care.

[A]

See you soon. Bye. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us your thoughts freedomarliekirk.com if you want to support our program, go to charliekirk.com support God bless you guys. Speak to you soon.

[B]

For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.