Charlie Kirk (2:50)

So let's dive into that. We use that language Sometimes about the insurrectionists, about the people that wish us harm and the activist media, they say that this is fear mongering and not true at all whatsoever. Can you help build that out and talk about how they really want to overthrow, you know, the system of government that we enjoy?

Tom Fitton (3:10)

You know, we. And you remember a few years ago when they were taking down or attacking statues of Confederate generals and politicians and President Trump said, well, why not Jefferson and George Washington? And from the communist revolutionary perspective, they're like, yeah, why not? They reject our constitutional system. They think it's fundamentally flawed and evil. When they say they're anti fascist, they mean they are anti anyone who is anti communist. And they don't believe in allowing us to govern ourselves under our constitutional system, under the U.S. constitution. They think the U.S. constitution is a racist classist document. So they reject everything that we kind of accept in our nation's political life. Both, I think both sensible Republicans and Democrats, to be fair. I mean, we think they, they don't play in our, on our playground. They don't believe what we believe. And I mean we, meaning Americans, who think they're liberal or conservative in the traditional sense of the word, they reject all of that. And that's why it's no surprise to me when they target liberals, because they reject liberalism even as the modern day liberals understand it, it's a dire threat to the Republic. And, and on top of that, we've got this kind of kleptocracy, this criminal class that's been running DC for so long that is allowing it to go on because they see political benefit from it and they see it as another way to prevent accountability for their really quite apparent criminal misconduct, whether it be Hillary Clinton or now we're seeing it confirmed. That was just as much about protecting Biden as Hillary Clinton.

Charlie Kirk (5:07)

Yeah. So let's get into that. I agree with the analysis and the description of a kleptocratic government. In fact, I have warned for the last couple of years that's where we're headed. And it's a little bit of a cynical view, to be honest, but I think it's accurate. And it really started when you and Judicial Watch started exposing the Hillary Clinton email scandal and the destruction of devices, the tarmac meeting. That's when I started to recognize and realize, more so than any other time in my short political career, that there really is kind of a gangster class that runs our government. And they believe that the country is theirs to exploit. They believe the riches are for them to collect. They believe the Laws are not for them to live by, and they believe that anyone dares question them, they should be punished for opening their mouth. These are people in both political parties, but less so. I don't see Republicans doing any of this. Instead, I see it almost primarily on the Democrat Party in the last couple years and the way they operate. The sophistication. Not even the sophistication. I shouldn't say that, but the brazenness that they operate with is so incredibly, it's awful for a democracy and for a republic. More specifically, as you mentioned, Tom, what is going on with the Biden crime family scandal? And then I want to build out all these pieces together because you've been on top of it. But can you just give us an update of what we've learned when it comes to Joe Biden and Hunter Biden selling out our country to our foreign adversaries?

Tom Fitton (6:46)

Well, we've had confirmation that the laptop is real. We've had confirmation that emails in the laptop are real. We've had confirmation, at least as of today, that the FBI is interested in talking to Joe Biden's or Hunter Biden's business partner, Mr. Bubiaski, I think his name is, I don't want to mispronounce Bob Yolinski.

Charlie Kirk (7:09)

It took us an hour of radio to get it right.

Tom Fitton (7:11)

Well, Mr. B, who has confirmed, because he's the recipient of the email, that the big guy in the sleazy China deal outlined in the Hunter Biden material is, is indeed Joe Biden. And the fact that the FBI is only interviewing him or supposedly is going to interview him today or shortly highlights the other aspect of the scandal, is that the FBI and Justice Department had this material since late last year and evidently haven't done anything with it and kept it quiet during impeachment, despite the material in it being particularly relevant to why President Trump was targeted. You know, what struck me is I always suspected there was a lot to the Biden scandal given the desperate effort by the left to destroy Trump for asking questions about it. You know, Trump being the, his instincts always, almost always being correct as to where the corruption is. He was like, what's going on with Ukraine? What happened with Biden and Burisma? And he was right to ask questions about it. And their overreaction suggests, oh, my gosh, there must have been something there. Now we know that the Ukraine dealings was a side hustle, practically speaking, for the Biden gang, that the big money was even elsewhere in dramatic fashion with China, it looks like.

Charlie Kirk (8:41)

Yeah. And you can See with how the tech companies came to the rescue for the Bidens initially when any of this reporting started. Is there any evidence, Tom, that this is Russian disinformation?

Tom Fitton (8:57)

No, it's disinformation designed. If there's any disinformation is from Biden defenders who are knowingly putting out a lie that the Russians somehow are behind this. How is China money tied to Russia? I'm trying to figure that out. Look, this is just an extension of the Russia smear. It's Russia, Russia, Russia. And Adam Schiff, he knew what Biden was up to. All of these folks should be asked questions about what they knew and when about Joe Biden. Because the dirty little secret in Washington D.C. is there are no dirty little secrets. Usually this corruption is well known among the political class. And my guess is there's not a member in the Senate. Were certainly people in the House have been around who are surprised by anything that's coming out about what Joe Biden was up to.

Charlie Kirk (9:48)

And they should be very nervous because these multi decade members of Congress have all done various deals at a lesser extent of spouses sitting on board, members approving pork, approving certain deals for certain corporations that need some sort of favors. And they'll take care of your son or your daughter, they'll take care of your cousin and eventually the entire family sees their net worth increase dramatically without ever having to hit your tax returns or your personal financial filings.

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Charlie Kirk (11:15)

So, Tom, I want to build this out a little bit further and deeper when it comes to the corruption that we are seeing in the D.C. political class. And it seems that there are two Americas, as John Edwards said, and he was definitely corrupt himself and awful. But the two Americas are the one America that allows you to do whatever you want with any sort of accountability. And the other America seems to be, if you dare, disagree with the dogmatic status quo opinion, they're going to target you. Are we seeing this more clearly than ever that there really is a ruling class that is untouched by our justice system?

Tom Fitton (12:06)

There is at least a portion of the ruling class operates as if the rules don't apply to it. We're always going to have elites in a country, right? But during the founding period of the country and really largely up until recently, the values of the elites were in sync with the values of the majority of Americans. There's no in sync. That synchronicity has been lost. And they have the values of most Americans now. They don't believe the rules apply to them. And if you put in a president they don't like, for instance, they'll break the rules in order to get him out. And we're all supposed to forget about impeachment, right? I'm not going to forget about it. Our country was almost lost. It was a close run thing. I'm convinced, and I'm going to give Judicial Watch credit, that if Judicial Watch didn't start yelling about Robert Mueller and the corruption surrounding his appointment almost alone,

Charlie Kirk (13:07)

and you were the one that exposed Andrew Weissman, you're the one that actually helped find the text messages between the lovers, if I'm not mistaken.

Tom Fitton (13:16)

Well, when we put pressure on them to start producing the material, we found out that Andrew Weisman was an anti Trumper, praising Sally Yates for her corrupt opposition to the president's restrictions on travel into the United States to protect our national security, then we subsequently found out that Andrew Weissman was conspiring with the Associated Press to try to take out Paul Manafort improperly. I don't know what else we can be doing to expose the corruption behind the scheme against President Trump. We've already documented it, but the point is that we were talking about it contemporaneously with it happening. And I think if we weren't talking about it and putting pressure on behalf of the rule of law, they would have just run roughshod over the whole city. In terms of throwing out the president.

Charlie Kirk (14:09)

Do you think that Hunter and Joe Biden will face any Sort of criminal charges through all this.

Tom Fitton (14:16)

Oh, boy, you know, I hope so. But we'll need two different people investigating them. You know, past experience is usually the best indication of future results. And past experience is that because they're part of that class that we've talked about, they won't get the investigation necessary. Look, we already have evidence of that. The FBI and DOJ sat on this material. If I were the president, I would appoint a special counsel. I'd have separate law enforcement agencies looking at this. I don't trust the FBI to do anything. You know, just. Look, I always go back to that FBI Justice Department investigation of those parents who were paying to have their kids

Charlie Kirk (15:00)

put into Lori Laughlin and all of that. Yeah, yeah.

Tom Fitton (15:04)

Now, look, I don't support breaking the rules, but was that the most important thing the FBI needed to be doing? But that's what they were doing as Obamacare happened, as evidence about Hunter Biden fell into its lapse. That's what their focus was on silly, unimportant investigations where the big corruption is ignored.

Charlie Kirk (15:28)

Not just the big corruption, but the corruption that affects everyone. The institutional, governmental corruption was ignored and validated. And then you have that woman from 60 Minutes, Leslie, say there's no evidence that your campaign was spied on. It is so pathologically untrue, it is Orwellian doublespeak. It is not just untrue, it is the opposite of the truth. Not only was Trump's campaign spied on, you guys tried to cover it up, you did it illegally, you lied about it, you launched an entire investigation to throw smokescreen against us as we tried to look into it. And yet Leslie says there's no evidence of that at all. Mr. President, how dare you say that? And what I'm worried about, Tom, and the only way we can remedy this is by winning an election. What I'm worried about is that there are people on the other side that, that are so just unmoved by facts or what's actually happening in our country under the premise that they are the ambassadors of truth, that the country can't survive this. You cannot have one group of people like Leslie. That's an important position of power. Talking to millions of people saying, well, you're saying there's no evidence you spied on it, it legitimately and actually happened.

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Charlie Kirk (17:15)

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Charlie Kirk (17:42)

people say voter fraud is not real. Is voter fraud real?

Tom Fitton (17:46)

Of course it's real. We see stories about it every day. And the danger of voter fraud is that it's hard to detect. Voter fraud prosecutions are a fraction of the cases that are brought to any prosecutor's attention. And, and of course that's just a fraction of what's really going on. And it's hard enough to detect when it's in person because there are many states where voter ID isn't required or the voter ID that is required is just silly in terms of it not being enough to justify to cement anyone's identity. You can bring in a utility bill and that's enough in many places. But when you've got 100 million ballots and ballot applications being put in the mail and being mailed to dirty voting lists, as we know has happened, then the opportunities for fraud are allegiant and they're almost impossible to detect. I mean, don't believe me, believe the Baker Carter Commission, James Baker, the old Republican hand, and Jimmy Carter, the former president. And they highlighted the fact that vote by mail, absentee balloting, it's harder to detect fraud, especially vote buying schemes. So, and on top of that, the left is undermining any of the security measures you might want if you're going to have vote by mail. They don't like witness requirements, they don't like signature requirements, they don't like even postmark requirements. I mean, we're worried about them counting ballots in Pennsylvania for three days after the election, or I think it's six days in North Carolina. Now in California, it's not a dispute. They will be counting ballots for 17 days after election day.

Charlie Kirk (19:34)

17 days, Charlie, and it will only allow them to continue to manufacture ballots and manufacture all of this stuff. So is there have there been any wins on the front of suing and trying to make this process better in the last couple weeks or months to try to hold this mail in voting scheme accountable?

Tom Fitton (19:57)

Well, the Republicans have been playing defense to try to stop changes in the rules and they've been, I would say, 90% successful. But for instance, in Pennsylvania, where they're going to be able to in theory, count ballots that have not been postmarked up to three days after election day, you know, all they need to do is change over one state. The left does, in order to compromise the election. You know, I know in California, we sued the governor over his plan on his own just to mail ballots to virtually everyone on the voting list. And we said, a, you're not able to do that under the law and B, your current plan would have ballots going to people who are dead or likely moved away. So the legislature blessed his ability to mail the ballots and he promised he wouldn't be mailing those inactive voters. But as we've pointed out that when you've got a lot of bad names on the list that you know are bad, meaning they're inactive, it means the rest of the list can't be trusted or at least trusted enough to mail them blindly. We have a study coming out or just as out. I don't know if you've seen it yet, Charlie. We did a looking at census data, the best recent available census data. I think it goes to 2018, their most recent voter registration data across 37 or so states. And we found in 29 states they had 1.8 million extra names in the rolls than people living there and eligible to vote.

Charlie Kirk (21:30)

That's unbelievable. 1.8 million. So some people are saying that even there are more registered voters in some of these states than people that are alive. I mean, why is it that some of these states refuse to clean their voter rolls?

Tom Fitton (21:50)

The left opposes it because I don't think there's any reasonable reason to oppose. It's not a hard, it's not an unreasonable requirement that the states take reasonable steps to clean up the rolls. The current law is, Charlie, let's say you don't vote this year, they send you a postcard. If you don't respond to the postcard and then you don't vote in the next two federal election cycles, then they take your name off. So you're talking what, maybe four, five, potentially six years before of inactivity, before Your name is removed. They oppose that. Why would you oppose that? I think it's because they want that bumper. They want that insurance of having extra names on the rolls to be used in case they need them in an election stealing scheme. When you combine that with voter id, they oppose asking anyone to verify their citizenship. That's something else we're not allowed to talk about. We have tens of millions of aliens, both legal and otherwise here in the United States and we're supposed to believe none of them are registered to vote and none of them vote.

Charlie Kirk (22:58)

And you add all this up, maybe 5,000 fraudulent ballots here, 6,000 fraudulent ballots there, you're talking about margins of victory that can be very considerable in favor of the Democrats. There's been over 1,000 documented and indicted cases of documented cases of voter fraud in just the last couple years. Over 1,000. And yet they say that there is no evidence at all of this whatsoever. Tom, I want to ask you, I want to shift gears for a second. You and I have been talking about this for months. You've been coming on our program and you and I have agreed on this. And I've just been asking, where is Durham? What's going on? Definitely no indictments are coming now. Last 11 days before the election, maybe something after. We had Rich Higgins on our podcast. He's a bar believer and a bar defender. He thinks they're sealed indictments. He thinks things are locked, loaded and ready to go. What do you think?

Tom Fitton (23:54)

Well, I would be pleased as punch to be wrong, but I haven't seen any evidence that they have done the type of investigation that would result in significant prosecutions. You saw during the Mueller investigation and it was abusive admittedly. But you know, those are that some of that is the indicia of a serious federal grand jury related investigation. You have witnesses coming in, lawyers conveching about their witnesses having to come in. You have grand jury appearances. You have all of that noise around a significant investigation. And you know, just because grand jury proceedings are secret in terms of what goes on in them, it doesn't mean people are legally prohibited from talking about them. Namely witnesses or reporters figuring out that grand juries are taking information.

Charlie Kirk (24:44)

So we have no evidence that those have been impaneled seeing it.

Tom Fitton (24:48)

And certainly Attorney General Barr, he said earlier this year that there is no evidence and I'm paraphrasing, but essentially that Barr and excuse me, that Biden and Obama are not being targeted for investigation. And you know, Comey came in and he talked. I tell you what, I keep on saying, it's one thing to say, look, we did an investigation, Tom and Charlie, we had them all come in, we had all the testimony and look, we don't have a case. It's ugly, but we don't have a case. I'm not seeing they even done that. I don't think they've brought in key people to be questioned. How can you draw any conclusions about what went on without talking to Obama, without talking to Biden, without talking to Hillary Clinton? I don't even care. Pretend they're not targets.

Charlie Kirk (25:40)

They certainly are witnesses and they talked to Brennan. Right. Which goes to show us what.

Tom Fitton (25:50)

Well, they're coming to a conclusion, I would think, about what they plan to do. The fact is Brennan's on TV talking about stuff all the time. Lisa Page, Peter Strzok, James Comey, they

Charlie Kirk (26:07)

got book deals, TVs, they're a professor at Georgetown now.

Tom Fitton (26:11)

Yeah, I mean, does that is any. You know, maybe they're just, maybe it's just false signs of bravado that they're just pretending that they don't face criminal liability for what they did, but they certainly aren't. It's a great act amongst a bunch of people. And I just don't see any prosecutions coming down the pike. And I hope I'm wrong because there's more than enough evidence, at least publicly available evidence, to justify prosecutions from Comey on down. And of that cabinet level agency type on down, Comey, Brennan, Clapper, others.

Charlie Kirk (26:47)

And Biden was involved in this. Biden was the one that was in that intelligence scheme that launched the entire coup. I mean, I don't know if it was at that point, but it was the effort to get, to find Flynn, to go after Michael Flynn and, and still Flynn is still. Yeah, Flynn is still fighting in the federal courts right now while Joe Biden is able to get this close to the presidency of the United States, this close while he's selling our country out and he's the one that launches the Logan act if President Trump loses. Where does all this stuff go.

Tom Fitton (27:29)

If there's nothing going on? It's not much is going to change. If Durham plans something substantial, it may still proceed. I don't believe necessarily Biden coming in is the end of a substantial investigation from Judicial Watch's perspective. We've been doing this a long time and for good and for bad. The Justice Department and the way it operates really doesn't change from administration to administration. Things go on, maybe they get squelched, but it just keeps on moving. And if there's Serious investigations. And you have a U.S. attorney like Durham willing and wanting to do a prosecution. You know, Biden is gonna have some difficulty interfering with that. But I'm not saying they won't. I'm not saying they won't try, and I'm not saying they won't be successful. I'm just saying it's not a done deal that this all shuts down even with the Biden administration. And you know what? Judicial Watch ain't gonna let it be shut down without a fight. We're not gonna stop asking. I mean, we will continue. Things won't much change at Judicial Watch after Election Day. We're gonna keep on fighting the Justice Department. We're gonna keep on fighting the FBI. It's gonna be a different administration, but the fights will continue and the quest for justice will continue. It just may be more difficult. But we'll see. As far as transparency goes, Charlie, I've been terribly disappointed in this Justice Department and FBI. I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the fact that things don't change that much, no matter the administration. But the casual, as you say, they think they are above the law. And it's even worse in some ways with the Justice Department and FBI. It's gotten worse in terms of transparency in many key respects since President Trump has come in. And I think it's all because they want to make President Trump's life miserable.

Charlie Kirk (29:25)

Yeah. And the only way you can deal with these radicals, the only thing they understand is defeat. This is political warfare. You can't beat them in persuasion. You can't beat them with facts or dialogue. You have to beat them with the American people. It is the only possible way that we can send a message against the ruling class. And I think the President's surging. He's in a very good position right now. And I think that the President is in a better position than ever before.

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Charlie Kirk (30:56)

welcome back, everybody. We are here with Tom Fitton. Tom, sorry I cut you off there.

Tom Fitton (31:03)

Along those lines, in terms of the republic being under assault has obviously been them leveraging coronavirus to shut the country down. And you may not know this, but we just have new documents coming out from Dr. Fauci's emails where, oh, surprise, surprise, who wanted to push a statement out early on during the coronavirus issue praising China. And they said, we're gonna put a statement out and we wanna be supportive, especially of China. And Dr. Fauci approved the statement.

Charlie Kirk (31:41)

Obviously, that doesn't surprise me at all whatsoever. And you're the one that is doing the FOIAs. You're the one that is actually challenging these things in the courts. That's why we love what you're doing at Judicial Watch. Tom I get this question all the time from grassroots warriors. They love your work, they love seeing you on tv. They listen to our podcast, but they say, what can I do? I feel helpless. I feel like we've lost our country, that maybe we can get President Trump reelected. But what can they do about this corruption? What can people do on a micro level, a singular citizen to help improve our country and save the republic that is under assault?

Tom Fitton (32:16)

Well, you know, they can support Judicial Watch. They can support tpusa. There are groups out there that they can leverage their individual support in a greater way through organizations like Turning Point and Judicial Watch. But separately, you see what we do when we ask the government for documents, we're using a law available to every United States citizen. Ask your local election officials what they are doing, for instance, to clean up the voter rolls, do FOIAs to your school board, do FOIAs to your local county executive or local mayor. There's nothing preventing you from using the law. It's a government law asking about government records. It's not rocket science. It's tough to sue if you don't get an answer. But you'd be surprised. The open records laws at the state level are often much more friendlier to requesters than we have to contend with, oftentimes at the federal level. So you might get some interesting Answers. And even asking the question is good enough sometimes because it puts them on notice. Someone is watching. Support Judicial Watch, support Turning Point, and actually do little mini Judicial Watch activities with asking government questions about what it's up to. We've got this precious, precious right to petition our government. This is what this is about. And the law puts us on equal standing with the agencies in terms of making them accountable to us. And you should exercise that precious right, because as we're discussing it, you can, it can be taken away in a heartbeat.

Charlie Kirk (33:54)

In certain states and certain counties, a FOIA request can be done via email by just a series of questions. Every city and state and county has different, you know, barriers to it. But I know that in the suburbs of Chicago, you'll call up them. You say, I want to submit a FOIA request. They say, what information are you seeking? For example, District 214, where I went to high school, you say, I want teacher salaries and I want Covid cases. I want COVID deaths and I want Covid hospitalizations for all students. And they have, by law, 10 days to answer to you. And they have a, they have a full time person at District 214 that handles FOIA requests. Guess what she usually says when we call. Oh, yeah, we haven't really had anybody call recently. It's amazing that if every person, if every person listening to this just used the simple FOIA law to your advantage, just ask more questions than you ever think would justify answers. But that would also make people think twice. And when we did this for 214, we got the answers back. They had zero hospitalizations of students, 0 deaths of students, 25 confirmed cases, and they shut down all the schools in District 214. And we got the salaries, and they were $138,000 a year teacher salaries in the suburbs of Chicago. Of course, we tried to publicize it. The local media wanted nothing to do it with it. But that sort of pressure is really important and needed. Tom, we're running out of time. I want to ask you, what is your election prediction?

Tom Fitton (35:26)

Oh, I think President Trump is going to win, and in a dramatic fashion, not just barely. I think he's, I think he's going to win, win. And I think it's possible the Republicans, I think it's a significant likelihood the Republicans take the House. And I don't say that because I want it to happen as president of Judicial Watch, it's just, I'm playing political analyst here. It seemed to me that the left, the violence associated with the left has just turned off too many voters and it's Hillary Clinton all over again with Biden corruption. It's an ugly mess for Democrats. And my advice to both political parties, Charlie, is you got a clean house. Your values are always going to be compromised and your policies will always be compromised by corrupt people in your midst. In either political party, it's usually the corruption that stops good things from happening in terms of policy. And if Democrats want to be successful, they got to get this corruption out. And, you know, in many ways, Trump was incorruptible coming in because he was outside the D.C. washington mix that has distracted so many Republicans from doing good things because they had penchants for taking care of their buddies as opposed to pursuing good policies as well. And the president just doesn't seem to care about that as much because he's not a politician in the traditional sense of the word. And if you're a Democrat, I'd be finding more, I'd be finding Trumpian figures in that regard to protect against the Biden type Hillary corruption that has saddled them for, you know, since 1992.

Charlie Kirk (37:05)

I hope you're right. Well, the book is A Republic Under Assault. Tom Fitton, Judicial Watch. Tom, thank you for joining the Charlie Kirk show again and we'll talk after the election. I hope you're right. What a great episode that was with the great Tom Fitton. Please consider supporting us@charliekirk.com support email us freedom charliekirk.com if you want to get

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Charlie Kirk (37:30)

tpusa.com get engaged, get involved, Start a chapter, Support a chapter at turningpoint USA. Tpusa.com thank you so much for listening. Everybody.

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Make sure to listen to our sister

Charlie Kirk (37:40)

ask me Anything episode. Thanks so much. God bless.