← The Charlie Kirk Show
The Charlie Kirk Show
EXPOSING the MANY Cybersecurity Threats to America's Elections with Rep. Louie Gohmert
00:58:17
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Charlie Kirk
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
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Congressman Louie Gohmert
I want you to know we are
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Charlie Kirk
lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
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Congressman Louie Gohmert
I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.
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Charlie Kirk
We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Are you guys hungry? I bet you are. Good Ranchers is the place to get your next meal. Good Ranchers has the top quality meat from across the country. It's really incredible. We had a whole box of Good Ranchers beef and meat come to our office and people have been cooking, they have been eating and they really like it. It's very, very good. Americans on average throw away 40% of all meat purchased from grocery stores due to spoilage. With Good Ranchers cutting edge technology, you can kiss spoilage goodbye. Each item is individually wrapped and flash frozen to lock in that juicy American goodness. For the price of a family going out to dinner, you can fill your freezer with quality meats with good ranchers.com don't waste your money on cheap cuts and overseas beef buying from the other guys. Get the American beef cuts your family deserves with Good Ranchers. Buy today@good ranchers.com that's good ranchers.com goodranchers.com use the promo code Charlie C H A R L I e to save $20 off your purchase. The that's goodranchers.com right now to use the promo code Charlie save $20 off for a limited time only. Goodranchers.com, promo code Charlie. Congressman, I wanna thank you so much for joining us and I second wanna thank you for speaking out on this issue. In the last week and a half, you've been one of the few members of Congress that has been speaking out about this raid in Germany. Seitel, the hammer and scorecard, all of it. I'm gonna let you just begin and you have the floor. Congressman, what is going on in this, what happened in this election and what are you trying to uncover?
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Congressman Louie Gohmert
Well, if we got time, let me take you back to the election in Texas. In both the primary March of 2018 and in the general election of 2018, there was a group and private intelligence group, former intelligence people that were monitoring the election in Dallas County. And you know, it's been some years back but it was news that Soros and others were trying to get people in place who would do the counting in our elections. And I thought, well, that's a shame, but there are some places that may work. But here in Texas, our secretary of State is in charge of all the election counting, and that's appointed by a Republican governor, so we're safe. I didn't think about the fact that our four biggest cities are controlled completely by Democrats. And unlike East Texas and West Texas, where the county clerk is expected to have her staff or his staff do all the counting, in the big counties, they will hire firms. One was hired, I think their base was in Toronto, Canada, to come in and do the counting for them. And we knew of one problem, of course, all of these systems report, hey, we don't connect to the Internet, so nobody can get in and hack. And actually there was a great article that of all people entities, NBC did January 10th of this year. Had you seen that, Charlie?
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Charlie Kirk
Yeah. Also the CNBC piece that was done at the hackers convention.
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Congressman Louie Gohmert
Yeah. Well, yes, they have to be programmed some way. And they do have data go from certain parts of the county into an aggregating system. And most of them use citel. The Scytl was originally headquartered in 2018 in Barcelona, Spain. Gives you warm feelings that Spain can control how our elections come out. Feel good all under. But anyway, so I had this group get with me and they did a briefing. Sidney Powell and others have seen the information. And I went, holy cow. So I kept trying to get our attorney general in Texas to there's enough here. You could get warrants, you could seize accounting machines and laptops and equipment. Nothing was ever done. Kept being told, oh, yeah, we're on top of. We're taking. So over a year ago, I took it to the White House and I made a presentation to the President. He said, this is a real problem. I said, they're going to try to do it in 2020. And by then, we also had the general election results and there were actually votes changed. One of the things they could do, though, the early voting was put onto flash drives. And each early voting location had a flash drive with all the votes. They brought those in on Friday night after early voting stopped before the election on Tuesday. And then they had three days to play with them. And there were some changes made in the primary that were bound and noted. But that's one way. I mean, they're using every tool at their disposal, whether it's the ballot harvesting. You know, there are just so many things False votes, but illegal people. People illegally hear voting. But in any event, the President said this is a problem. And anyway, apparently there were plenty of people in the administration that shouldn't be there that were saying, we've got it, it's under control. And of course, you know, and I fact you were so well informed about most everything, but I know you're familiar with cisa, that's our cyber and infrastructure security agency headed by a guy named Christopher Krebs. How could we go wrong? But there was a great. There was an article in Politico, of all places, on Election Day weeks ago, and it was really a puff piece about Krebs. And he was assuring everybody there was no way our votes could be affected. System secure, no place for fraud. And he did thank his partners in Silicon Valley, who all, of course, love President Trump. And for those that are leftists that may be watching, that's called sarcasm. Okay? But you know, the guy worked for Microsoft before he came to the government. So what could go wrong having a guy that was a Bill Gates loyalist working and securing our election? Since Bill Gates loves President Trump so much, in any event, that's who was supposed to be watching the henhouse. And all they were doing was preparing reports that said how safe we were. All the while on Election Day, all of that data from most of our election locations was going through, being aggregated. And as we found, as NBC had found, there are ways to hack in. They are connected at different times to the Internet. And that's what we knew from the Texas election, from two years ago. So I can't confirm or deny the raid or raids occurred. I just had gotten a report that Germany had. The people in Germany had reported about the raid. But what I knew was the day before, I had given information, supplied it to the White House and said, look, here's what you need to be getting from Seidel. And this will be. We'll be able to determine what votes were changed, how widespread, how many thousands or millions. And by the way, another thing, Charlie, I've heard people say, you know, the President needs to give it up. He lost by about 5.4, 5.5 million votes. I mean, obviously he couldn't have won the election. You do a breakdown and you see that California, with all where they legalized so many illegal ways to vote, that's where he won by 5 million votes. And then another million votes or so in New York. But you look at the other 48 states, President Trump won reelection. And when we're looking, and I've been around you so much and I know how your mind works and that's why I love the way it works so well. You know, it's logical. Okay, what would be a fail safe way to check to see if there are indications that the outcome is suspicious? Well, most everybody knew going in if Republicans were going to avoid losing massive number of seats in the House, then it was going to. President Trump was going to have to have extensive coattails to carry Republicans along. He would have to win so big that the sweep would help us not lose seats, much less gain any. We weren't expected to gain any. So we're hoping that there would be enough coattails from Trump, people would turn out for him and we wouldn't lose seats. We picked up maybe a dozen or so seats. The, the only way we were going to be able to keep the majority in the Senate was going to be again if Trump turnout was so big that we didn't lose the majority. And the background on that. We picked up seats two years ago because the Democrats had nearly twice as many seats of theirs that were up for reelection. This time we had a lot more Republican seats up. So this was the time for them to pick them up. Okay, so when you see we picked up a bunch of seats in the House and no incumbent lost their seat, it was Republican and we kept. It looks like we'll keep the majority in the Senate. How did that happen? Well, it could only happen with Trump coattails. So that tells you something is terribly wrong. If the popular vote says Trump won or lost by five and a half million votes, there's something bad wrong there.
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Charlie Kirk
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Congressman Louie Gohmert
Well, I can't give any specifics on Hammer and Scorecard. Those are certainly issues. But we do have people doing deep dives. And, you know, we hope to know more soon. But with regard going back to the reported raids in Germany of Seidl, by the way, they apparently gone through a bankruptcy. But I'd mentioned earlier that two years ago their main headquarters was in Spain, Barcelona. Well, that apparently got moved main headquarters to a place called Frankfurt, Germany. You know, Germany, Germany, where Merkel was telling Trump the next day that he just needed to concede and get out of there. Yeah, because she doesn't want to pay what she agreed to pay to Germany's fair share to the UN and she doesn't like Trump trying to hold their feet to the fire. There are all kinds of reasons. She oh, and they want us back in the Paris accord like everybody else because we're the ones, we're the only ones that are going to pay every other country in the world for all the damage China is doing to the environment. So they have a lot of reasons. In Germany, they and in Spain, they want Trump out. But what we, what really bothered me is here I provide, I'd email this information on what specifically to look for that, what information we needed that was I didn't come up with it. It was provided by some of our former intel people. And then immediately after that, we hear that Seidel's server has been grabbed and it's apparently if it were apparently it was not by direction of the president. So you wonder who's getting that and what's that all about. And there's still some ways that we can grab that information.
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Charlie Kirk
You, you have mentioned it. What could potentially be the significance of this and how it implicates what where what may or may not have happened, you know, about a week and a half ago.
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Congressman Louie Gohmert
Well, as even the NBC stories showed, there are back doors to the information being accumulated. And that's something I'd been hearing. There are back doors where they can go in and people can change votes and they do. And what we've seen in 2018, from the briefing that I got was that there they used a couple of methods. One is just flipping Republican votes in a race or more races, but flipping Republican votes and making them Democrat votes just in the county. And that creates some problems for the data and that what makes a good analyst able to do a deep dive and see, wait a minute, these were changed, here's where they were changed. And that's what messed up the down ballot votes. So that's one way. And another thing is apparently they use what's called a multiplier. They can input a multiplier so that just hypothetically, or for example, every vote for Beijing Biden would end up being multiplied so that he was getting more than one vote. It would be multiplied by whatever they put in. Now I've been told that in some of the deep diving going on now, there are actually fractions of a vote. And, and since the Democrats demanded that black votes only count as three fifths of a vote back before the Civil War, we haven't been having fraction of the votes. But if you ever see that, it tells you there's been a multiplier that applied that fractionalized an outcome. So those are a couple ways. And so if you had the undoctored CIDL server, you should be able, or experts should be able to find votes that were changed. If they're there and they've not been erased, then you'll find those votes that were switched. You'll find what votes, what elections they were switched in. And in fact, I'd seen data on votes that were switched in 2018 in Dallas, Texas. But unfortunately, and I've been telling the President for a while, as long as Christopher Wray's heading up the FBI, this country's not safe. And you're not safe. Christopher Wray took his admonition to clean up the FBI to mean that he needed to sweep everything under the rug. And that's what in my humble opinion, he's been doing ever since he got there. We cannot move forward and the FBI can't get their reputation back as long as he's there. It's just in my opinion, not honest at all. In the Washington part. We got good, honest FBI agents around the country, but we got people that still are a problem for us keeping this self government going.
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Charlie Kirk
If I remember correctly, you were a judge in a past life, is that right?
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Congressman Louie Gohmert
Correct.
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Charlie Kirk
And so there's a lot is now going to be put on judges right now, Federal judges and Supreme Court judges. Just looking at this realistically, what does the Trump campaign have to present? If you put your judge kind of robe on, what needs to be presented for a judge to maybe order a revote or something, that would dramatically change the current trajectory. Take as much time as you'd like. For our audience that really doesn't understand how the legal process works, what it would take for a judge to act
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Congressman Louie Gohmert
that dramatically, and you're right, it would be dramatic. There have been elections that have been overturned and new votes required. But in a case like this, and I've discussed this with some of the attorneys helping the president, and I'm also licensed and certified to practice before the U.S. supreme Court. But as a member of Congress, I'm not authorized and I'm prohibited from practicing law. But it doesn't keep me from remembering as our highest level trial judge in Texas and then also on the Court of Appeals as chief justice back in Texas, you will have to come in and everybody's heard about different types of fraud, whether it's dead people voting, which did occur apparently 10,000 or so in Michigan, even though we've been told, oh, well, they may have voted, but we would have called those and not counted those. Well, we know some got counted, but it's not enough to come before the court and show that there was fraudulent voting. You need to show that. And we need to show that dead people voted. We need to show that some people voted for other people. We need to show that has been reported in Pennsylvania that there were mail in ballots that got voted and recorded before they ever could possibly have been returned. All of those things need to come in. If we can get, and there ought to be, it ought to be retrievable by subpoena or warrant to get the data from Seidel and other sources to show. And we need to do this to show votes that were changed from here to here. Some people have seen the video of Matt Bevin's race last year in Kentucky for governor, where you just saw over 500 votes just flip from Republican to Democrat. Well, that kind of stuff was what I was shown had been happening in 2018 in Texas. They got the system down. So I feel like it should be retrievable once they get that data to show that. But all of that is still not enough. You have to be able to show that on an extensive enough basis that a judge would say, whoa, there's no question this affected the election. And when it gets to that scale, then the choices are you can order all of the improper votes to be struck. If those can be shown, you can. And then a recount with the ones that were legitimate, you could order a complete redo of the election, but we don't have a lot of time for that. Or the court could order that. These votes are in such a disastrous form they cannot be certified as the election results from this state. Therefore, this state's Electoral College votes can't be certified and they can't help either candidate get to 270 in which. And if they're not enough for anybody to get to 270, Biden or President Trump, then it would be thrown to the House. And as you know, it's not the Democrat majority that would decide takes one vote. And then we have more states with the majority Republican than Democrats. And since Mitt Romney is not in the House of Representatives, then we should be able to hold Republican states voting for the Republican candidate. So those are all possibilities, but it's got to be compelling enough. And another, another factor, too. And this is one of the things that bothered me so much about the FISA court being lied about. If you're a judge, you're going to be lied to time to time. But what really bothered me is the FISA courts didn't seem to be bothered that people came in and committed a fraud on their court. I found if you put one lawyer in jail one day, one time, the rest get the message. And you don't have problems with lawyers not doing what they're supposed to or being honest about what's supposed to happen. But nothing like that happened. The visa courts didn't seem to be bothered. I don't know any federal judges that wouldn't have freaked out over that. And here in Pennsylvania, they were ordered to allow the Republican poll watchers to come in. I went up to Pennsylvania, okay, I'm not from Pennsylvania. That's where the fight was. So I showed up. But you have to let the Republican poll watchers watch. And why not? They ought to have it as cheap as TV cameras are, you know, Internet cameras, they should have been watching every desk where votes were being counted so you could ensure, okay, you think Biden was going to win so big, then let's see it honestly. Instead, they were putting up paper or posters where you couldn't see in. And that was they were ordered to allow people to see. So if I'm a judge that issued that order, I've got my judge hat back on, my judge robe back on, and the evidence comes in that after I sent that order to make it transparent Allow everybody to see what was. And okay, you finally let them in, but you moved the counting back so far they still couldn't see. I'm deeply offended by that. And I think Justice Alito and others have enough integrity. They would be deeply offended by people doing that. And there's a legal doctrine that if one side has access to evidence and that evidence is either destroyed or can't be gathered, then a judge is allowed to take judicial notice or to order a jury that they can take notice that the evidence was available to this person, it's no longer to this party, and it's no longer available. And therefore you can consider that that evidence proved their point was not valid. And it's one of the few times a judge can instruct a jury that you can take something that's not direct evidence, but if they've hidden evidence, they haven't followed an order, then the court could just say, you know what, I told you to make it transparent. So all the votes that you didn't allow to be transparent, they're not going to count because we can't trust them. And if you've intermingled, you didn't set the ones aside I told you to, every one of them, then we can't trust your account of the votes and it can't be certified. You need a do over. Or he could say, it's not enough time, can't be certified, your state can't be certified. Which again throws it back to the house.
- [26:57]
Charlie Kirk
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Congressman Louie Gohmert
The way if you're trying to get a quick injunction and you can make a basis, show a basis for a court to act, the Supreme Court will put one judge on it and have them make a determination. And it also happens with courts of appeal as well. If it's an emergency, you have one judge on it, but then you can appeal to the full en banc, all of the judges together. And that's why sometimes you will see maybe a three judge panel or one judge on a federal court of appeals that will issue an order or decision or temporary ruling or even a final ruling. And then the party can say we want to go have a hearing before the full panel and go from there. But emergencies, it's not uncommon to have one judge assigned to take that up. And if you're the litigant, you're really hoping it's a friendly judge because you got friends and you got enemies at
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Charlie Kirk
the Supreme Court, not Sotomayor or Breyer or Kagan, that's for sure. So I'm glad Alito was wearing the, was wearing that role.
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Congressman Louie Gohmert
So the other question, impressed by Justice Alito and his devotion to wanting to follow the law. And just like you were pointing out, Charlie, unless there are consequences for absolute ignoring a court order, then of course that will continue. And I don't we've got enough people on the Supreme Court now that, that do believe in the rule of law. And let me tell you another thing that you're trained about as a judge judge is the fact that decisions, both criminal and civil, they can have, they need to have a deterrent effect to improper conduct. And so like, for example, if you're, you're deciding on appropriate punishment, then you're supposed by law, you you're supposed to consider general deterrence. What will be a message in what I do here that is strong enough that others who are similarly tempted to do this kind of conduct will not want to do it, and then specific deterrence so that the people you are specifically dealing with will never want to do that again. It will be so costly. And if you send a message like that to Seidel, to Dominion, ES&S, you will see them be much more careful about the back doors that are left open or things that are hooked to the Internet. But this is very, very critical for our future. And for those Republicans or Rhinos that say, look, the President needs to concede and we can come back and win more seats in the presidency in 2024. No, some of us have seen how they were learning this way of stealing an election in 2018. They got much, much better at it in 2020. And if this election is stolen, if the fraud is not corrected, and it could be that after you take out all the illegal voting and you take out the manipulation of the data, that Biden wins, okay, he wins. And Trump would let him roll in. But I don't think that's where it's going once we get down to the real votes.
- [32:19]
Charlie Kirk
So, Congressman, in addition to that, can you help me understand? Because you're talking about how a judge could step in Supreme Court, justice or otherwise, and could say, if you didn't follow my orders, these votes could be thrown out and it could go to the House and all of this. What you're saying is that despite what a lot of the establishment Republicans are saying, there's a lot of remedies for President Trump at this moment. If this gets interpreted as a spoiled election in the eyes of a judge. And you've mentioned what it would take to get there, and it is a very high threshold. Do you think, based on current claims by the very, very reputable Sidney Powell, she's confident that President Trump will serve a second term. She thinks that the Biden transition team is kind of a waste of time, is what she said today on television. There's a lot of people that are anxious and confused about this entire process and how it all working. People know that it's stolen. It's just. And what's really upsetting, Congressman, I was on an airplane a couple days ago, and people came up to me, they said, can we trust anything the government ever says again? And I said, probably not. And that's where we're getting to, where people are just gonna say they're gonna treat Their government like it's a banana republic. I guess the question is, can you comment on what could realistically happen before the magical dates start appearing when the electoral college gathers and we have to start really filing, you know, pre inaugural paperwork because we do have to have, you know, the next leader of the free world by January 20, unless the Supreme Court decides to come in on dramatic, dramatic action. Do you see, do you think, do you see that there could possibly be some bombshell revelations where the US Supreme Court could, you know, step in here?
- [34:11]
Congressman Louie Gohmert
Yeah, I believe some of us have seen enough fraud that the Supreme Court absolutely needs to step in. And it takes me back to the summer I was an exchange student to the Soviet Union, Charlie. I spent a lot of time with other college students. Half of that summer was in Ukraine. I used to say the Ukraine. And one of the Ukrainians said, do you say I'm from the Texas? And I said no, we don't say the Ukraine here either. We're from Ukraine. But so much time with college students and I couldn't believe they didn't trust their governments story on anything, most of them. And, and I said, doesn't it bother you that you can't believe anything your government tells you? And there was a Russian expression that, that I heard over and over. It drove me crazy that, well, there's nothing to be done, nothing to be done. I hated that it was so fatalistic. But that's how a Marxist government is able to stay in power is by showing the people you can't do anything. It's just going to ruin your life. Just sit back and roll along and coast along. But that's not the American way and the courts can do something. And frankly, Charlie, I would rather have a redo election than to have the courts roll in and say, I agree, we can't trust it and it can't be certified and it goes to the House. The first time that ever happened. John quincy Adams in 1824 did not get a majority of the popular vote and he didn't have enough electoral college votes. So it went to the House and it created lots of trouble for him. He didn't win a second term, of course. And then he ran for Congress the unthinkable after being president, but, and tried to work on eliminating slavery. But it would be cleaner if we could make sure that people's vote counted. You know, I know in my own district the first time I ran, I was told by somebody that was a major Democrat that I pay a lady here for. It's usually around 1500 votes. And she had a list. She'd go get people to sign on the absentee ballot request, and then she would get the absentee ballots. And I asked the clerk one time, does she really vote that many? She said, yeah, sometimes she votes them all in green ink so she can prove how many she voted because she gets paid for every vote. But in any event, there's always been cheating. You know, I was watching a vote back in the 90s, and Tom Brokaw told, I guess it was David Brinkley, tell him that story that Johnson told about when he ran years ago. He said, well, he said, you know, back then, before Watergate, the press was friends with all of the presidents as they were president. And a lot of times the President would come down to the press room, sit at one of our desks, and just sit around and talk. And he knew he could trust them not to print anything that was like that off the record. And one time, and it must have been 66, said, we were watching some midterm reports of votes coming in, and Johnson, Lyndon Johnson had his boots up on the desk and scratching his belly, I think, drinking a beer. Yeah, I remember back when I was running, my campaign manager and I were out in the cemetery the night before the election. Of course, in Duval county, there were a lot of dead people that used to vote or vote in alphabetical order and those kind of things. But, yeah, and we would write down the name off each tombstone, and we came to one that had all this stuff on it. We couldn't really tell the name. And my campaign manager said, come on, Lyndon, let's go to the next grave. And I grabbed his arm and I said, no, sir, this man has ever been as much right to vote as anybody else in the cemetery. And so, you know, and those of us in Texas that know our Texas history know that happened in Duval County. And then I think the courthouse burned when the investigators came to investigate. So the biggest, as John Fund has said before, that wrote a great book on fraud and elections, the biggest fraud about elections is the statement that there is no fraud in elections. There has always been people trying to cheat, and some have done so successfully. And by the way, I asked Monica Crowley, that worked for Richard Nixon after he was President, I think, helping with the book. And I said, well, I'd heard in 1960 that Nixon was told there may be enough fraud in Chicago that we could go to court and you'd have a shot at winning. And she said she had talked to him about it and that he Said, yeah, he was told it was a good shot at overturning it, but he just felt like it would be too divisive for the country. And so Charlie, you go back to the discussion earlier on deterrence. If there are no consequences for cheating, then it just gets worse and worse and worse until it builds to where we are now and people don't have, you're gonna have 70 million people that don't have confidence in this vote.
- [40:09]
Charlie Kirk
So Congressman, I wanna take a question here from some of our listeners. We have tens of thousands watching and I wanna thank you for being so generous with your time. One question that we just keep on getting is what can we do? Some of our supporters here@charliekirk.com support. Just one question here from Gary from Michigan. He says, what can we do? He said, I feel helpless and I feel like this election was robbed. What can just average Citizens Patriots do right now? Because we're just a lot of people are sitting at home saying this feels like the greatest con job in elections in American history. What can I do?
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Congressman Louie Gohmert
It's not just American history, it's in world history. I mean this is, this will be the biggest stone election in world history. Yes, it went on in the Soviet Union, but they didn't really have to steal a lot of votes. People were scared not to vote as they were told. And you ran. There were problems obviously in Venezuela, in Cuba, any place you have socialism, you're going to have an all powerful totalitarian government. But to your question, I know as a, when I was a judge we were not to be affected by the opinion of people. But, and sometimes I hated what the law was and I would explain, I think this is the wrong outcome, but I'm not allowed to legislate from the bench. You'll have to go to Austin to get the law changed or Washington to get the law changed. So I'm going to have to follow the law. But there are a lot of judges. Well, most of us just say it. Most of us do not want to be exceedingly unpopular and be called all kinds of names. I think God's been good to me during my days as a judge. My skin got so much thicker and so I could handle it. But I see judges all the time. They are definitely swayed by popular opinion. And I think Justice, Chief Justice Roberts is one of those. In fact, my understanding was that on Obamacare decision he was really, that he was planning on voting, that it was unconstitutional. And I was told that information was coming into the court from back channel stuff with its Sources, which it's not supposed to, but from the White House saying, you know, you guys need to understand, if you declare the Affordable Care act, real misnomer, you declare the Affordable Care act unconstitutional, there'll be millions of people die. They won't have insurance, they can't get the health care, and it'll all be your fault. The Republicans don't have a plan. And so all these people would be out. You can't do that. And Chief Justice Roberts will go down in history as the most political chief justice since Taney and the Dred Scott decision. And that ultimately, supposedly Roberts just didn't want to go down in history as the most political Chief Justice. So what happened? He became the most political chief justice since the Dred Scott decision. But Justice Scalia told me one time, and I don't know if you were following Supreme Court decisions back when the Kelo decision came out. Not as much from. From New Hampshire. I believe it was New Hampshire, but it was a case where the city decided to use their power of imminent domain to take somebody's private property, not for a. Not for a civic or city reason, but because they wanted to give it to a developer who was supposed to divide it and make it more valuable, and then they would receive a lot more property tax from all that money. And that's outrageous. You're not supposed to do that. But nobody had raised a fuss when cities across America had used their power to condemn property, to take it for a government purpose, and then handed it over to some rich developer that was building a sports stadium. You know, well, if you're going to follow the law on eminent domain, you don't give it to a private person that's going to have a private stadium. Sure, if it's going to be like Green Bay, that's legitimate, the city's going to own it. But that's. Nobody raised a fuss ever about those. Justice Scalia said nobody raised a word. So he said he had never seen the Supreme Court justices more shocked at the outrage of the public when a majority of the Supreme Court said, yeah, you can use condemnation, imminent domain and take land away if you think somebody else will pay more taxes on it. Well, people were outraged. But they said, well, if somebody, you know, had raised Cain about the sports stadiums, then they probably would never have gotten to that bad decision. And that's the way I see this. You know, you're not going to change. Clarence Thomas or Justice Alito. There are handful. Well, hopefully, hopefully 5 we don't know will not be swayed by Public opinion, they'll do what they believe the Constitution requires. But we've seen it too many times. And I'd also heard back, Roe versus Wade, that since majority of the justices went to these cocktail parties all around the world that said, well, of course a woman ought to be able to kill their baby, they had not heard people on the other side. And so all of that, long story to say it makes a difference when people go out to the streets, as they did In Egypt in 2013, a third third of the population went to the streets all over Egypt and said, we don't want the Muslim Brotherhood, the radical Islamists, running our country. We want him out. He's destroying our constitution. And it happened. They were peaceful. The Muslim Brotherhood burned down some churches and stuff and tried to make it look like. But that's the point. It's got to be peaceful. Dr. King was one of the greatest examples ever. His was peaceful. Yet Bill Ayers and those kind of people thinking that terrorism and blowing things up for people dying, that was the way to go. It didn't accomplish anything until they went in and took over, as you know, and you talk about as professors and started misinforming students. But it is critical that people make their voices heard. Have rallies like people did before the election for Trump, have rallies to say, you should not steal this election. We need fair elections. Because there was a great quote, the Republicans, many of them are saying, oh, no, we'll have another chance down the road. But there was a great quote from Churchill and I can't find it now. But basically, if you won't fight when success is virtually assured, then you will come to the place where you are going to lose. But fighting is better than dying as a slave. So this is a point we can still win. But once an election is stolen and they have total control of the intelligence, total control of the FBI, total control of all of the government, there's not going to be any more Republicans and they'll start stealing the elections all the way down to City hall and the local corner courthouse, and we're already moving farther towards socialism than I could ever have imagined. And you're going to see Christians and Jews persecuted like never before. It's already started, but we've seen Covid used as a reason to go after groups that people don't like. No, you can't meet at a church. You can go out to a casino or the liquor store, that's fine, but not to a church, for heaven's sake. I mean, we're already seeing that kind of discrimination being brought to bear and it's got to be stopped. And the way to do it is get this election corrected. Let's get all the votes that are legal votes. And if the fraud is so bad and the disobedience of court orders and of the law is so bad, we can't figure out which votes are legitimate, then you go to, you can't, you cannot certify those election results. So we either have a do over election or you just, we don't certify them and it throws it to the House.
- [50:26]
Charlie Kirk
Well, we have a special, we have a runoff in Georgia on January 5th. Why can't we have a runoff in four or five other states that can't certify their election results and do it the right way? And it's any sort of excuse. And by the way, remember one year ago it was Democrats that were calling for a revote in North Carolina in that race because of all the voter fraud. And they got what they asked for because the House of Representatives wouldn't seat, I have the name here, good guy that won, but he was in trouble there. And so, Congressman, last question here. The president is remaining steadfast in fighting this. What is your message to your colleagues and these moderate Republicans that are now just going by the wayside? What is your message? It's a question that we're getting a lot from our supporters here@charliekirk.com support. What are you saying to other members of Congress? I'll be honest, Congressman, you're one of very, very few right now who's speaking out.
- [51:28]
Congressman Louie Gohmert
Well, and I did find this church from this quote from Churchill. Let me tell you, we have got to fight. This is for all of the marvels. This will determine whether we will continue to be a self governing republic or if we will become a socialist state. Now, being a Christian, I feel strongly about what Dostoyevsky said and I think he is completely right. Yes, there were a lot of economic problems with socialism, but he said the problem with socialism is not economic. The problem with socialism is atheism. The government becomes God and it has to attack anything that may take away from the government being godlike. But here's Churchill's quote. And this is what I would send out to all those Republicans that say it's not worth the fight. Look, we're never going to have another Republican president. So if you're thinking if I just get Trump out of the way, then I can win in 2024. Forget that. They will have perfected the theft in such a way by 2024 Republicans aren't going to be winning again. Churchill said, if you will not fight for right when you can easily win and without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly, which is what I would say where we are here, you may come to the moment when you have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worst case. You may have to fight when there's no hope of victory because it's better to perish than to live as slaves. And I think we're at that point where this is not terribly costly. They're going to call you crazy and stupid the way I get called all the time. And you know, I did quite well on national testing. So I'm very secure in who I am, what I am. And my skin was thick enough when I got Covid back this summer and I got wonderful sweet messages from all over the country. But I got a bunch of just die MF or and I find those amusing. But you got to get your thin, your skin thicker and just go, this is for future generations to be able to have freedom to say what they want to believe as they feel led. And you know, our second Amendment, forget that, that'll be gone. But not just those. Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, yeah, all those go second Amendment. But the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. That's what this last, this, this FBI and Department of justice is engaged in. They would just go search whenever they got good and ready, lie in an affidavit and they should be going to jail. Shame on Durham. But this is worth fighting for at a chance where, at a time when we have a chance to win. And if we don't, I'm telling you Charlie, future generations, maybe not you as much and people younger than you, but for a number of our generations, they will curse our names for generations to come because we had it so easy and we could have fought and could have saved self government but just decided we didn't want to be name called or have antifa target us. But antifa's got to be stopped. These Marxists have got to be stopped. So it's, it's time not to shrink back and say, well let's go to a movie and worry about this later.
- [55:34]
Charlie Kirk
You can't do that.
- [55:36]
Congressman Louie Gohmert
So, so yeah, we got to fight. So I'm very, very grateful that you're in the fight and you're smart enough to, to see the problems and the things that the left is saying, we got to be in the fight. Organize rallies, wherever you live. Make sure you're a member of Congress. Your senators, even if they're different parties, they need to be have this outpouring of email, letters of calls saying, this is being stolen. You have destroyed my vote with fraud.
- [56:11]
Charlie Kirk
Yes.
- [56:11]
Congressman Louie Gohmert
Let's get this right. Let's make sure we get it right. And it usually requires a threat, or we're going to make sure you don't get reelected.
- [56:20]
Charlie Kirk
You get primaries,
- [56:23]
Congressman Louie Gohmert
people gets their attention. Now, I've had a premonition since I first ran that someday I might end up having to take a stand that would cost me. The way Sam Houston did when he stood up against seceding from the union and slavery. And very few people came to his funeral. Without him, there is no Texas. Yet sometimes you do have to take a principled stand, even if it means costing your friends. We still celebrate him for the good he did. But there at the end of his life, it was not fun. But he stood up for what he believed was right. Sometimes you have to do that. But what I found back when I was a judge, and I was told by every judge I knew, if you handle that case, you'll never get elected to anything. And I lost sleep. That's the only night I ever lost sleep about a decision. Lost sleep because I was concerned about losing, but I prayed about it. And what came to me by morning was if I'm going to run from the job I ran for, I shouldn't be in this job. And so I handled the case. Made some people mad, but did what I thought was right. And my approval, I mean, my polls started going up as a result. People appreciated somebody doing what they ran to do.
- [58:03]
Charlie Kirk
Well, God bless you, Congressman, for everything you're doing for our country. Keep fighting. I want to encourage you, keep stay on this. We have your back. Please, let's expose this fraud. So God bless you, Congressman. Thank you for joining us.