From the Archive: Charlie vs Students on the College Scam

Summary

Podcast Summary:

The Charlie Kirk Show
Episode: From the Archive: Charlie vs Students on the College Scam
Date: May 16, 2026
Host: Charlie Kirk

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Charlie Kirk visits a college campus to engage in an open debate and Q&A session with students, tackling his controversial claim that "college is a scam." The discussion covers the value of higher education, economic outcomes, social mobility, and ideological divides present on campus. Throughout, Kirk stands firm in his unapologetically conservative beliefs while fielding challenging questions from skeptical students.

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Key Topics and Discussion Points

1. Is College a Scam? (01:17 – 03:45)

• Kirk’s Position:
  • Half of college graduates, according to Kirk, secure jobs that do not require their degree, equating this to a failed value proposition.
    • "Any business that has a 50% rate of a customer being scammed will be shut down by the federal government for disenfranchising their customers." (01:30)
  • High dropout rates (~41%) cited as evidence college isn’t delivering promised value.
  • Kirk questions the curriculum, suggesting it often lacks practical content and doesn't provide a positive view of America.
  • College is described as "just a glorified credentialing exercise" rather than education.
    • "You're just paying for a piece of paper so you can get a job." (02:48)
• Student Pushback:
  • Students contend that college offers networking, workplace readiness, and personal growth.
  • Kirk doubles down, arguing these benefits don’t justify the cost or necessity of college—except for technical/professional fields (medicine, engineering).

2. Alternatives to College & Economic Perspectives (03:45 – 05:13)

• Kirk Emphasizes:
  • Many lucrative careers don’t require a degree (e.g., Walmart manager, plumbers, HVAC technicians).
  • "There are 11 million job openings in this country right now that don't require college degrees. We are oversupplying college." (04:32)
• Student Critique:
  • One student accuses Kirk of "taking advantage" of the college space by spreading his anti-college message on campus.
  • Kirk responds: "It's like going to a place to tell people you're being scammed. If you call that taking advantage, then so be it." (04:51)

3. Kirk’s Qualifications and Expertise (06:43 – 09:03)

• Challenged by Students:
  • Kirk’s lack of formal academic credentials is questioned. Critics say most students know more economics than he does.
  • Kirk turns the question back, quizzing students on their knowledge of economists:
    • "Who’s Milton Friedman? Who is Ludwig von Mises?" (07:16 – 07:44)
  • Kirk argues lived experience as an entrepreneur, autodidact, and author outweighs formal qualifications.
    • "You don't have to go to college to be wise...I read a hundred books a year. I visit over 150 colleges." (08:37)
  • When asked to cite where he’s factually wrong, a student attempts to point out a misstatement on communism/socialism, leading to a spirited but inconclusive historical debate.

4. Debate on Racism and White Privilege (12:49 – 15:00)

• Accusations:
  • A student labels Kirk a "potential white supremacist" based on his public arguments about "whiteness" and denial of white privilege.
• Kirk’s Defense:
  • Kirk asks for direct evidence of racism and maintains there is nothing whites can do in America that blacks can’t.
    • "So what can a black person do that I can't do in America? Or what can I do a black person can't?" (13:20)
  • A black student supporter steps in, citing personal experience to challenge the narrative about racial discrimination in hiring.
    • "Please tell me how my black experience and my black man has not given me... [listing political internships and jobs]." (14:52)

5. Accusations of Fascism and Turning Point USA Funding (15:15 – 17:16)

• Student attacks:
  • Turning Point USA is called an "evil company" funded by "thousands of fracking companies" and accused of making “the rich more rich.”
• Kirk’s Rebuttal:
  • Kirk points out that many billionaire donors, Big Tech titans, and oligarchs are left-leaning, not conservative.
    • "The wealthiest people, absent Elon Musk, are all on the left. Jeff Bezos, George Soros, Mark Benioff..." (16:21)
  • Argues the political left manipulates working-class activists while protecting elite wealth.

6. Policy and American Middle Class (20:09 – 23:13)

• Economic Philosophy:
  • Kirk endorses "precision in free markets," encouraging entrepreneurialism and choices.
  • Warns, however, against “mass immigration” which he claims undercuts American workers’ wages.
    • "When you have mass migration, you're going to get lower wages, but that means you're going to disenfranchise American workers." (21:27)
  • Advocates for prioritizing American-born workers in the labor market.
  • Consistently frames focus as “restoring the American middle class” and resisting globalist or oligarchic structures.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On college's value:
  • "You're just paying for a piece of paper so you can get a job." (02:48)
• On personal qualifications:
  • "You don’t have to go to college to be wise. You don’t have to go to college to be intelligent. I read a hundred books a year. I visit over 150 colleges." (08:37)
• On race and opportunity:
  • "So what can a black person do that I can't do in America? Or what can I do a black person can't?" (13:20)
• On criticism and open debate:
  • "But I'm such a bad fascist, I let the people would disagree. Open mic to talk to me for two hours uninterrupted. Okay, I'm an awful fascist." (15:36)
• On economic oligarchy:
  • "The left uses people like you that think that, oh, we're going to fight the rich. Well, they protect their oligarchy while you guys have to keep on working hard and never own anything. When we conservatives are the ones that actually want to restore the American middle class and bring jobs back to this country." (17:19)

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Key Timestamps

• 01:17 – Student challenges Kirk on "college is a scam"
• 03:45 – Value of non-degree jobs and economic alternatives
• 06:43 – Kirk’s college experience and credentials questioned
• 08:37 – Kirk lists his self-taught and entrepreneurial achievements
• 12:49 – Accusations of racism/white privilege discussion
• 15:15 – Debate over Turning Point USA as "fascist" and its funding
• 16:21 – Kirk lists left-leaning tech billionaires
• 20:09 – American middle class and immigration debate
• 21:27 – Effects of mass immigration on labor market

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Episode Tone & Style

The exchange is energetic, with Kirk confidently fielding tough questions and sometimes turning them back on the questioners. The students offer critical and sometimes confrontational challenges, especially around issues of race, economics, and Kirk’s legitimacy. Despite the heated moments, Kirk invites open debate and rarely shies from spirited disagreements.

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Summary

This episode serves as both a showcase of Charlie Kirk’s advocacy against the prevailing college system and a microcosm of America’s wider ideological conflicts. Kirk’s encounters with students highlight deep divides on higher education’s value, social mobility, economics, and race. Despite facing sharp criticism, Kirk maintains a blend of assertiveness and open engagement, reinforcing his position as a polarizing, but unapologetically vocal, figure in today's culture war.

Transcript

[A]

My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro American student organization in the country, fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You gotta stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a Point USA College chapter. Go start a Turning Point USA High School chapter. Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade. Most important decision I ever made in my life. And I encourage you to do the same. Here I am, Lord. Use me. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold investments@noblegold investments.com, that is noblegoldinvestments.com

[B]

I saw some people with the shirt that says school, College is a scam. It's quite the statement. And could you elaborate a little bit more on that? Do you believe colleges is a scam?

[A]

Yeah. Half this audience, if you guys get a job, will end up getting a job that doesn't require a college degree. Okay, then, so they get a job that requires a college degree. So, yeah. So any business that has a 50% rate of a customer being scammed will be shut down by the federal government for disenfranchising their customers. You went to chili's like, hey, 50% chance that our fries are going to give you food poisoning.

[B]

So if you look at college more than just getting a job, more as educating the population, would you say that's a scam?

[A]

It depends on what you think college is and what it's become. Secondly, 41% of people that enter college don't graduate. The dropout rate's insanely high.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

Third, I mean, what exactly is being taught here? It's a great question. I mean, are you learning about the beauty of Western civilization and reading the Federalist Papers of Hamilton and Madison and Jay? And do you get a positive view of America, or do you spend time on postmodernism of Michel Foucault and Jacques Derrida and Gene Stefanik and Derrick Bell?

[B]

I'd say more networking.

[A]

Oh, networking, yeah.

[B]

Okay, so before we go, dive deep into it, what's your definition of a

[A]

scam where a serious proportion of your customers are not given the value proposition that they pay for education. Right. Which they're not getting. Yeah.

[B]

You're saying so therefore.

[A]

Well, that's the question. You come here to get educated. You guys are going from the wrong thing. This is just a glorified credentialing exercise. Yeah.

[B]

And that's what you're paying for. Therefore it's not.

[A]

Okay, so. So we're not. Education. You're just paying for a piece of paper so you can get a job.

[B]

And education, I mean.

[A]

Oh, is it education? So are you.

[B]

It is education. Sorry, the education.

[A]

What does that even, what does that mean to you?

[B]

Resources. Learning how to work, learning how to move around a professional workforce.

[A]

You need to go to college to learn that?

[B]

Yes, yes, I'd say so.

[A]

I think you're being. You're being scammed, man. Take it from someone who didn't go to college. You don't need any of that stuff. Yeah.

[B]

Would you say a doctor would need a college degree?

[A]

Of course. But the vast majority of kids here aren't study to go to become a doctor.

[B]

How many engineers are in here?

[A]

Yeah. Okay, so how many people that are studying social or liberal sciences? Social sciences? Yeah, a fair amount.

[B]

Okay. It's personal choice.

[A]

The vast majority of kids that go to college are social sciences, psychology, communications. About only 18 to 20% are studying engineering.

[B]

And you say they shouldn't go to college?

[A]

Well, it all depends. Again, it depends on what you're studying, why you're there, but you don't. This idea that engineering you need a four year degree. You could also just learn to code in six months and work for Salesforce and earn $180,000 a year.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Yes, it is true. Coding's hard, Charlie. You have to go to college to learn to code. Okay, that's my point. I'm not saying it's easy. You just need to go to college. Secondly, what does a manager of a Walmart, a Walmart supercenter make a year? Anybody know $400,000 a year?

[B]

400,000 a year?

[A]

Yeah. They don't require. Yeah, you guys should just go become a manager of a Walmart doesn't require a college degree. What is the average plumber make in Scottsdale, Arizona? $115,000 a year. What is the average H Vac technician make in Henderson, Nevada? $75,000 a year. But those don't require college degrees. There are 11 million job openings in this country right now that don't Require college degrees. We are oversupplying college.

[B]

But yet you're here taking advantage of college and college students.

[A]

Am I taking advantage? Is that what I'm doing?

[B]

You're taking advantage of the space, taking advantage of the students. Not in a way of like intellectually taking advantage.

[A]

It's like going to a place to tell people you're being scammed. If you call that taking advantage, then so be it.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, you're taking advantage as you're taking my time. You're taking everyone's time and you're volunteering your time too.

[A]

I didn't force you.

[B]

Okay, Sorry. Yeah, you're taking our time.

[A]

We're fair enough. I do this also in other places than campuses too, so.

[B]

Yeah, no, but then you're here and then you're saying college is a scam.

[A]

It is. Half of you guys will end up getting a job where your entire college debt burden means nothing. You will get a job that does not require a college degree at all. You're four years wasted. You shouldn't have come here in the first place. Half.

[B]

Well, I disagree with you.

[A]

All right, well, that's fair. I hope it's worth it.

[B]

Have a wonderful day.

[A]

All right. Thank you.

[C]

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[D]

You dropped out of college and your highest community college. Sorry. Your Harper College experience.

[A]

I apologize. Barely was smart enough to make it through community college. Okay, so barely made it through high school.

[D]

Your Highest degree level is an honorary doctorate degree from Liberty University.

[A]

That's true. I do have an honorary PhD.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

So essentially, what are your qualifications for arguing that college is a scam? Or really any having any economical knowledge at all, when likely the vast majority of the students here know more than you about economics as a whole.

[A]

Okay, so. No, hold on. It's okay, guys. It's okay. Who's Milton Friedman? Who is Milton Friedman?

[D]

I have no idea. And it's not important to this conversation.

[A]

Who is Ludwig von Misesa?

[D]

These are all probably economists.

[A]

And the same thing, John Maynard Keynes.

[D]

Okay, obviously I know who Keynes is.

[A]

Oh, obviously?

[D]

Yeah, he's the most famous economist of all time.

[A]

You don't know Milton Friedman?

[D]

I mean, that's an economist.

[A]

Okay, how about Murray Rothbard?

[D]

That's another economist.

[A]

F. A. Hayek.

[D]

I don't know who that is.

[A]

Well, then you just came here, insulted my intelligence for. You're right, I barely made it through community college because I was too busy, I don't know, starting a national youth movement with hundreds of thousands of members.

[D]

Hey, hold on though.

[A]

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Employing hundreds of people, raising hundreds of millions of dollars.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

Having a top 10 most popular podcast and reaching tens of millions of people online every day.

[D]

Sure. But you're also calling all of your constituents idiots by saying they participate in the scam. They, you know, there's.

[E]

Right there.

[A]

I'm calling the institution a scam. So then I just had 10 people come up and we had warm conversations. So you asked, what are my qualifications? I'm a job creator, entrepreneur, autodidact. Do you know what that word means? Yeah, self taught. You know, you should probably learn that word if you're other people's intelligence. So autodidacticism is what Leonardo da Vinci was. You don't have to go to college to be wise. You don't have to go to college to be intelligent. I read a hundred books a year. I visit over 150 colleges.

[D]

I'm not saying you're unintelligent. I'm just saying you lack qualifications.

[A]

Well, are you a New York Times bestseller?

[D]

Of course not. I'm in college.

[A]

Got it. So I'm just trying. What are my qualifications? I have published books, read lots of books, dialogued a lot of people, and instead of asking what my qualifications are yet, can you name one? Name one thing I'm wrong about.

[D]

You literally just. You just now incorrectly cited the difference between socialism and communism, while you yourself, you claimed that Russia was socialist. Russia Was never social. No, it was a communist nation. There is a significant difference.

[A]

Why did Lenin say that socialism is the gateway to communism and he was self described socialist? Lenin in his private Lenin and documents

[D]

in the Russian Revolution, Lenin was overtaken by Stalin.

[A]

Hold on a second. No, Lenin died and then Stalin was his successor. Yes, but Lenin himself said quote that socialism is the introductory phase to communism.

[D]

So then the vast majority of people, when they're referring to communist Russia are referring to Stalin's rule over Russia. That was a communist rule that turned into a fascist rule later on.

[A]

Okay, so, but what, what, what thinker was deified in Soviet Russia?

[D]

That thinker was deified?

[A]

Yes, Marx. Oh, and what, what, what book did Marx write?

[D]

Yes, he wrote Capital which. And he also wrote the Communist Manifesto.

[A]

Who was his co author?

[D]

Who was co author?

[A]

Yeah, Engels. Good, I'm glad college is really paying off for you. Hey, so. So. No, but it's okay. It's fine. He comes up here and insults my intelligence. What are your qualifications? Doesn't even know the co author of the Communist Manifesto at Das Santal. But no, let me just.

[D]

Again, again, but does my lack of knowledge on that mean that I have no knowledge?

[A]

Is that insulted me and you came up here guns a blazing man. And let me just ask again, what did I say that was wrong? I said that under the generally agreed upon definition of communism and socialism, which are interchangeable terms, one is a more harsh degree of the other is that the elimination of the family, the elimination of private property and the deprivation of basic human rights such as right to speech, right to assembly and right to worship. How is that not a good definition

[D]

of communist socialism that explains fascism better.

[A]

Well, but in the Communist Manifesto Marx said, quote, we are here to destroy the nuclear family and eradicate the family because it was the original oppressive tyrannical structure. He said religion is the opiate of the masses and that private property must be eradicated. I have just now documented all three of those with evidence back to original source documents. And then in practice, Russia did all those three things when they were the Soviet Union. So where am I wrong?

[D]

But then at the same time, if you claim that those are all negative things, then why do you practice certain things in those in the doctrines that you just stated?

[A]

Well, I'm not trying to take people's stuff away. I want people to have bigger families and I want churches to remain open.

[C]

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[D]

yeah, but the thing is. No, but your main, your biggest thing, your biggest point that everyone here is for is that you're a potential white supremacist.

[A]

So what evidence do you have that I'm a racist?

[D]

I was just literally watching a video of you talk about how. Talking about whiteness as a whole. Talking about whiteness as a concept.

[E]

Okay.

[D]

And you were trying to explain how white privilege doesn't exist.

[A]

Correct? It doesn't.

[D]

You are a white man. How do you know?

[A]

Because I have eyes.

[D]

Because you have eyes. That's not a.

[A]

So what can a black person do that I can't do in America? Or what can I do a black person can't. I can't do?

[D]

Let's think of some history right here.

[A]

Let's go. I don't need a history. I don't have lesson.

[D]

No, you're talking about you need a history lining.

[A]

Clearly I know you're talking points better than you do and I've read all those. The literature that you have. I probably forgot more about the lecture.

[D]

S3 affects the present day as well. You know that's true. If you went to college you would know.

[A]

Well, hold on a second. But let me, let me.

[D]

So then why are you wearing the college of scam shirt? Drop out.

[A]

Well, well, because you could.

[D]

It's because you don't believe your own beliefs. And that's what I'm saying.

[A]

You can admit something's a scam and still get through it. That's why he's wearing it. Okay, then why? You could feel like you're getting ripped off by an airline but still want to get to New York, but that's

[D]

not what we're talking about anymore.

[A]

You're like, I'm getting ripped off by a thousand dollar ticket, but you still get on the airplane. Like, it doesn't make you a hypocrite. It means that the people are ripping you off and a lot of you are getting ripped off. But no. So as far as white privilege, without the history lesson of, you know, Jim Crow, segregation, imperialism, colonialism, slavery, all the stuff that I know that you're going to say. But just concretely, in America today, what can a white person do that a black person can't do?

[D]

Black applicants to jobs are 50% less likely to get jobs with. They have a black sounding name.

[A]

That's not even close to being. That's not even close to being true.

[D]

That is a literal.

[A]

In fact, it's the opposite.

[D]

I'm not going to argue your experience. I'm not going to know.

[A]

See, now you have to listen to him under your rules because a black person is going to say, you're wrong.

[E]

I am.

[D]

He can say I'm wrong.

[A]

I. I know. I come on up to the mic.

[E]

I know.

[A]

I read. I read your. My name is Keemon Dixon. I have a really black name.

[C]

Please tell me how 50% of my internships have been denied when I've worked

[A]

for Senator Mike Lee, Mayor Trent Sachs, Speaker Mike Schultz.

[D]

Hold on.

[C]

I worked for a congressman, Burgess Owens. I've actually worked on his campaign. I've worked on the campaigns of John Hussman Jr. Please tell me how my black experience and my black man has not given me. Go ahead.

[A]

So

[E]

you create a company that's like, like close to being a fascist. And then like, okay, how am I.

[A]

Sorry, let's go through this. How am I a fascist

[E]

dude like you?

[A]

Can you name one thing I believe that's fascist?

[E]

You believe that like you are.

[A]

But I'm such a bad fascist, I let the people would disagree. Open mic to talk to me for two hours uninterrupted. Okay, I'm an awful fascist. I'm more like a free speech liberal the 1970s, not a fascist.

[E]

But I just want to say Turning Point USA is a evil company that was funded by thousands of fracking companies

[A]

and that just no it's not thousands, but we do have some frackers that give us money, but.

[E]

And then all it is is making

[A]

the rich more rich. Fascism to fracking. That's all it is.

[E]

That's all it is.

[A]

Okay, again, I'm happy to have a debate. I can see you're getting kind of fight fired up. I'm sorry, but why? Why are we evil? Like we're having a nice discussion. You're calling me because it seems like

[E]

you just want the rich get even more rich.

[A]

Like we haven't talked about the rich at all. I mean, so do. You don't even know my positions on this stuff at all. The wealthiest people, absent Elon Musk, are all on the left. Jeff Bezos, George Soros, Mark Benioff, Mark Zuckerberg, Lorraine Powell. Jobs on the left. Yes. Can you Name1Tech CEO outside of Elon Musk that is a conservative?

[E]

I personally think Peter Thiel.

[A]

Yeah, that's one. That's one. Larry Page, Google on the left, worth $120 billion. Sergey Brin, Google, hundred thirty billion dollars on the left. Mackenzie Bezos, Jeff Bezos.

[E]

If they're on the left, what has they done that was like quote unquote to do the left stuff?

[A]

Well, okay, so Larry Page gives money to left wing NGOs all the time.

[E]

Like if you're on a left, I don't think you will ever be this rich.

[A]

Well, they are. You know why? Because.

[E]

Because they're not.

[A]

No, because they're not. The left is a scam. The left uses. How is this? Let me tell you why. It's a good question, actually. The left uses people like you that think that, oh, we're going to fight the rich. Well, they protect their oligarchy while you guys have to keep on working hard and never own anything. When we conservatives are the ones that actually want to restore the American middle class and bring jobs back to this country. Let me finish, let me finish. The left uses people like you every day.

[C]

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[E]

who is funding do. I have never seen a leftist organization come to campus spreading their propaganda.

[A]

Well, because the whole university is a leftist organization. Liberal, left.

[E]

There's a, there is a clear cut difference between a leftist and a liberal.

[A]

You're coming after this in a good way because every major powerful wealthy person, person in the country, over $100 billion in net worth, with the exception of one person, Elon Musk is on the cultural left and gives money to the left. And you guys give them a free pass because you think that we're fascists when in reality we're the ones that are actually fighting to destroy the oligarchy the most.

[E]

All right, last question, last point, last question. Let's say. So you do want to fight for the American middle class. And that's my.

[A]

Yes.

[E]

How, how, how does free. Freer to market? Like, helps with the middle.

[A]

Again, I want, I want precision in free markets, but I.

[E]

How does, how does free market support the middle class?

[A]

And I'm not puritanical, but I think that generally more choices are a good thing. I think that generally supporting entrepreneurs is positive, but I think that mass immigration is really bad for American work.

[E]

There's no mass immigration.

[A]

Well, first of all, how many people are. Wow.

[E]

Like.

[A]

Well, you're right. There is mass invasion. But, but how many people are coming across the southern border every day?

[E]

I don't know.

[A]

But like, no, no, I'm not actually generally curious. Can you guess?

[E]

Okay. On what time frame every day? Every day. 500.

[A]

Yeah, it's at a low point it's at 10,000 right now is 15,000 last month. So what does that annualize? Let's play that out.

[E]

A lot.

[A]

Yeah, it's a lot.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That's mass immigration. Right. How many green cards do we give out every year? Probably a lot. Yeah, a lot. About 1.2 million.

[E]

Well, what's wrong with giving out green cards?

[A]

Wrong. No, you said there's no mass migration, so I'm just trying to tell you we do have mass migration.

[E]

Right.

[A]

We have 3 million on the southern border and then we have a million green cards.

[E]

Right.

[A]

That's 4 million a year.

[E]

Right.

[A]

Which is effectively basically bigger than most US States. Now everything comes with a cost. When you have mass migration, you're going to get lower wages, but that means you're going to disenfranchise American workers. What are you studying? Computer science.

[D]

Yeah, I am.

[A]

Okay, so you're an American born, I'm guessing American race. I don't, I don't want to. I wasn't, but okay, I moved to the U.S. okay, well you're in America now, I guess. I don't know, maybe I am. Student visa. Okay. You're going to now have to compete. You're kind of proving my point. But that's essential. Separate issue. You're now going to have to compete against foreign labor for your computer science jobs. I think we have a moral obligation to American born workers to give them preference and priority and restrict the labor supply so that our computer science majors can have higher wages. Not to have suppressed wages as some tech CEO can bring in a bunch of Indians and suppress their. Not against Indians, but just you know, bring down their wages.

[E]

Personally I just think that like if you came to America and then receive a green card, I think you get, you get to work however you want. Okay.

[A]

I think that American born citizens and

[E]

there shouldn't be a priority because they are American citizens.

[A]

Well, as long as you're. That's what. We're different. I actually think you must have a priority to your own citizens or else you don't have a government, you have something else. If you don't have a priority to your own people, I don't know what you have. You have a colony, not a country. You're just a big economy and that, and that's fine if that's your position by the way, your position is held by the ruling elite. Where I think that we should have a country, not just the colony where the American born citizens should be given preference over foreigners. Nothing against foreigners. I think they're nice people, but the Americans should be given first preference. And by the way, any sane country believes that we're like the only country in the world that says and certain European countries come on in and take whatever you want.

[B]

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