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The Charlie Kirk Show
Greg Gutfeld | How to Survive Mob Rule and Preserve Your Sanity in 2020
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Thank you for listening to this Podcast
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1 production now available on Apple Podcasts, Podcast 1, Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Hey everybody. Today on the Charlie Kirk Show, I have an exclusive conversation with Greg Gutfeld from Fox News. I love Greg Gutfeld. He's a terrific person. You're gonna love this conversation. I want to thank those of you that Support us@charliekirk.com Support charliekirk.com Support helps keeps us going and growing strong. Charliekirk.com Support please consider supporting us monthly. It helps us hire more staff and stay strong. Email us your questions. Freedom charliekirk.com get involved with TurningPoint USA today@tpusa.com tpusa.com get engaged. Get involved. Start a chapter. We are fighting for freedom on campuses across the country@tpusa.com Greg Gutfeld is here. Everybody buckle up. Here we are. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
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Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
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Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
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I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy, his spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.
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We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Hey, everybody. Welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show. We are joined by what I call the most witty and wise and funniest person in the entire conservative movement, Greg Gutfeld. You've probably seen him on Fox News many times, and he's actually had the opportunity to speak at a few of our Turning Point USA events throughout the years. And he has a new book out that I encourage everyone to go get. It's called the plus Self Help for People who Hate Self Help. And Greg, you were once a self help writer at a magazine, is that right?
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Yeah, actually, first of all, thanks, Charlie. And it's good to see you being hated by so many people because that means you're doing something right, because I went through all that. So that means you're doing something when you have a lot of critics. Okay, so back to your question. I kind of began my career after I was an American Spectator as a staff assistant. I went to Prevention magazine in Allentown, Pennsylvan, and I was their first fitness editor. Then I moved to Men's Health and became their editor in chief. I was at Men's Health I was at Rodale, which was Prevention and men's Health for 10 years. And so that's service journalism. That's how to, how to be a better person, how to get 6 pack abs in 3 days. I am responsible for all those ab cover lines of the 90s. The obsession with abs was my fault. But the irony of the whole thing was that these magazines are generally for kind of older people. Prevention especially was the largest health magazine and mostly read by 60 year old women. I'm a 25 year old guy giving them advice. I am drinking every day, smoking every day, going to bars, having a ball. And here I am giving health advice to people that are twice my age. It doesn't work. I realized how cheesy and false it is because whenever you meet self help writers, they're generally really miserable and in need of help. There's like themselves. I've been at conferences where there are other self help writers from other magazines, men's magazines, women's magazines, and they look terrible. They just look terrible. They're the least healthy looking people. So I never liked it. And then all of a sudden I'm on the other side of that hill. I'm now 55, which I can't believe I've said that because you don't believe you're that old. And now I have wisdom and now I feel like, okay, now I can actually accomplish the stuff that I wanted to accomplish and I have stuff I can tell people. I think I learned a lot and we don't take wisdom seriously. So I thought I'd do that instead.
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Well, I'm actually really pleased and encouraged that there's a non political book out there in this entire political landscape. And it's very funny, I think that kind of self help industry. I've met these same sorts of people, they're just kind of disheveled, you know, they're probably 60 or 70 pounds overweight, they haven't shaved in like two and a half weeks. And then they write this long article about self discipline and waking up on time. And it's like there's something a little bit contradictory here.
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You meet them in the like if you ever meet self help person like in a green room, there's like the button is always like the buttons on the shirt aren't actually lined up. And if it's a guy, the fly is never totally up. They're just, and they're. I shouldn't talk because look at me, I mean, I just got done exercising so I'm kind of a wreck. But they're not put together. And it's to your point though, in journalism in general, the people that are dispensing advice, whether it is self help or political or, or how to be a better person in general, when you meet them, the contrast is so stark. And I think that's why, like, you know, it's always interesting with like, people paint Republicans and conservatives as like evil, awful people. And then you in person, they're like, sorry, they're like pretty good looking. They're pretty put together, they're pretty generous, they're pretty happy. It's like, okay, so the way the world portrays bad, evil people, you find out, are really, really great. And the people that we're supposed to listen to for advice, like a Paul Krugman look like they are on. They're from evil Island. You know, it's like the idea of conflating protesters with rioters, it's like, no, it's peaceful protests. It's like, no, I see with my own eyes. These are sick people. I'm coming to the conclusion in that world that the only difference between the protesters and the rioters is the time of day. Just once it goes dark, just changes.
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Yeah, it's fine. You can say whatever you want.
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And also to your point about this not being a political book, it is frustrating to work in television and that I never could win the argument. I don't want my face on the book because all the books with faces on them now are just. You just feel like it's a right wing book, right? And you always have somebody like this with their, with their, like with the
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flag draped over them.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was gave. Who's the guy I give crap to? Pete Hexif. Giant American flag, by the way. At least he went for it. Like, his cover is insane.
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No, I give him credit. It's the full Braveheart.
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It's just like we are straight to
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the light of fire.
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Go all out. But it's like what I wanted to do was I wanted this to be more like this secret or power where there's just a symbol. But everybody that who's your agent or marketing people, like, dude, you're on tv. You're not going to put your face on the book. That's how you sell this book, you idiot. And so I'm going to do this, but I think the next iteration when this comes out, because it's not political and people, I think this out of all my books is going to last way longer than my other books. Because if a book is Political. It does. It literally does not have a shelf life because it's a moment in time.
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It's a perishable good.
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Which was about joy. Hate was about cancel culture. And that was from 2010 or 2012 when I wrote that it was all about cancel culture. It's more relevant today. But I don't think anybody's reading it because it's guy on the COVID It's eight years old. It seems dead. So I want this to have a different cover so people can pick it up who don't know who I am five years from now and can go like, wow, this was a. This was about living in a time of hysteria, mobs, disease. And it could be helpful. I'm sorry, blathered.
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It's perfect. So you say in the book that there's a crisis of meaning. I'm paraphrasing here. Or that people are without direction. I see this firsthand. We see it statistically and anecdotally, especially with young men in this country where. And you see it reflected in, we're having 500,000 less children this year than last year. Drug use is up, Suicide is up. How do you address this in the book? You're embarking on this very important task of trying to communicate wisdom. A lot of young people look up to you. What are some of the themes that you hit on?
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Well, you know, it's kind of interesting. You go back to like what Jordan Peterson said about start by making your. Making your bed. And people laughed at that. But that's kind of what the plus is about, is like I created a new, or let's call it an artificial replacement for impulse control. Let's say you don't have a religious upbringing and you don't have a two parent household and you don't have a role model. And so you're faced with options that are good and bad or in the midst of good and bad. This book creates this artificial thing that you teach yourself before every decision. Plus or minus. So before I text, before I tweet at Charlie Kirk something obnoxious because he ripped my show. Is this a plus or minus? Because this book was made for me as somebody who could have better impulse control on Twitter, online, on email, in meetings, even on tv. Although I think it's funny that I'm more in control on TV than I am anywhere else, I think. But the idea of the plush was like, how can I add some muscle to my impulse control, especially when my impulses can be so negative? So it was also. That's why I said self help for people who hate self help. It's me. I hate self help because I'm kind of negative, if you haven't noticed. So to your point, they may not find. It may be hard to find meaning these days. So you have to almost create. You have to create a system for yourself that becomes ingrained. And that was what I was doing with the book. It's like, okay, if you can't control the world, you can control your reactions to the world and. And you can reshape the world in a weird way. The book is my example of the plus in action. I didn't have a contract for this book. Normally when I do books, I have a contract that had a book that I was supposed to do in 2021, so I could have sat out all year and done nothing. But I thought about this in the middle of the night about this system. And I had all these ideas about cancel culture, the Kavanaugh stuff, the Covington stuff. All this stuff was in my head and I thought, well, what's the plus thing to do and what should I do? I'm going to write a self help book that tackles these things. And that was like not. I wasn't planning on the negative would have been not to do anything. So I hope that this is just a valley for us and that we come out of it and that there will be meaning rediscovered. It is. I like, I do think that when you're watching what's going on in the streets, there's a lot of miserable people who are finding meaning in self destructive envy. It's like they're not trying to rob Charlie Kirk of his wallet. They just don't want Charlie Kirk to have that wallet. That's envy. It's not even jealousy. You know, jealousy is I really would like your car. So I'm gonna go to work and earn enough money to have a car like that. This is. I'm going to destroy your car. And I don't even want your car. I just don't want you to have it. That is envy. That is pure envy. And we're seeing it on the streets. And I don't know if it's up to us to provide moral value or meaning to those people. I would provide them with prison and three meals a day because I think it's a lost cause for them. I don't know.
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Yeah. And they find. They actually find satisfaction in not even getting the good, but in seeing other people suffer, which is even. It's actually way more morally twisted than people recognize. Is that when they get the Gucci bag that's actually gave them less satisfaction than when the glass shattered?
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Absolutely. And also, I mean, I, you know, my neighborhood got ravaged on that. It was Saturday, Sunday, and somewhat of Monday night back in June. And my wife was in the apartment because she had told me she was staying with friends because I was up north about an hour away. And I said, you know, you should get out of the apartment. She says, I'm already out of the apartment. I'm at my friend's house. She was at a birthday party in Brooklyn. And I said, and I called her because I saw the looting from Friday and Saturday. And I said, you have to stay where you are because Stubbo is going to get destroyed. She said, no worries. But she lied. She actually came. She actually was home.
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That was not the plus thing to do.
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She was looking out our window and watching every single store, hundreds just going in and going out. And to your point about stuff that they were stealing was like a woman running out of a store with like a hundred bras, you know, of a difference. That was out of the lingerie store. And it was just insane. But completely understandable. When you don't have impulse control and there are no incentives or disincentives, that is punishment or consequences. There's like punishment is an incentive not to do something. You subtract that. It's free money. And that's why it was an organized looting in Chicago. They had time to plan it organized because they knew there wasn't going to be any repercussions.
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Yeah. With no guidelines. I mean, there's the old expression that the laws are the wise restraints that keep men free. When there is no law, men actually are not free. And I'm convinced that some of these looters and terrorists, if there's a pile of dirt, they would take it. It's almost they find some sort of satisfaction in the capacity to be able to hotwire the laws and not be held accountable for it. That gives them meaning. It's almost they've gamified the criminal process.
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It is this. It is a mentality that has been ingrained if you went to any major university in the last 20 years, that capitalism, free markets, achievers do not deserve what they have. So you have protesters walking through the suburbs. I think it might have been Seattle, telling the white owners of homes to leave their homes and let black individuals have their homes. Because I guess historically it was a black neighborhood. But it's like you have to give up your homes and that happened. I guess that happened last week. I'm trying to make sure. Like, maybe it was just. Maybe it's just five people. But there's a guy running for office in Minnesota who was standing outside somebody's house shouting expletives, saying, f the police and all this stuff. And he's got the governor's endorsement. So the leaders are doing it.
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Yeah. And it's perfectly philosophically consistent if you understand the left and you understand what drives them. And I don't mean to make this too political, but I mean, you kind of went there, so I will. I mean, they just are more miserable. And it's because. And I'd love your opinion of this. I don't know if you talk on this in the book or not, which is. It's a lack of gratitude. If you don't have gratitude, it's very easy to become bitter. Do you talk? Do you kind of. Can you walk. Walk us through this kind of this new, like, systematic thinking that you have in the book, which I'm really. I'm really interested and intrigued by because it's very. It's pragmatic, basically.
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You're saying it is basically looking at everything as an opportunity for a plus or a minus type behavior. Two roads and figuring out which way to go. It's real simple. It's almost. Bongino said this to me. He goes, greg, it's so idiotic, but no one's ever done it before. That's how I hear Bongino when he's talking to me. He said, this is. I've never read this before, but it's so obvious. And it is obvious. I actually used this principle when talking about dealing with people like miserable leftists. And if there is a glimmer of hope that you can kind of open them up to other ideas, I have strategies in there to do that. Whether it is like trying to meet them a little bit, trying to get them to talk about other things as analogous to politics. So it's like, okay, so if you think this is wrong, how do you. Why do you use an alarm clock? You know? Or why do I not. That's a dumb analogy. But why do you. Why do you invoke discipline in these areas, but not in these areas? Stuff like that. But then there's often no hope. There's an interesting study of the social justice warrior type activists, and they're generally antisocial. If you're in a pub, they're the person that, rather than having a drink and having a chat, is yelling at you. And it's not like I was trying to figure out what came first. Does the social justice activism make a person miserable, or does the miserable person gravitate towards that? And I think it gravitates toward it, and then it inflames. Because if you notice, if you've noticed, even among the groups of the social justice warriors, they're not even very nice to each other. It's not like they all go out afterwards and have a beer. They're actually pretty bitter and angry towards themselves. And a lot of it is the lack of gratitude in the sense that they feel that they deserve more without actually trying to earn it. You know, it's like, I deserve this. I deserve your respect. I have self identified as X, Y and Z. And if you don't genuflect before my identity, you're a racist bigot. And I always say whenever anybody starts giving me their identity speech, I pull the Tommy Lee Jones line from the Fugitive. You know, when Harrison Ford says, I'm innocent, and Tommy Lee Jones just goes, I don't care. And it's like when somebody starts telling me as a blank, blank, blank, blank, blank, I go, yo, I don't care. I'm just speaking to your words. And right now, I don't care what you claim you are today, because it's going to change tomorrow.
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So there's a lot of people listening to this podcast, and we've done podcasts on how to try to get people's lives reorganized. It's a serious problem in our country to try to get people straightened out and try to get them understanding of how they can find purpose and responsibility. Just technically, Greg, what is your message in the book of the applicability of this kind of systematic thinking of looking at everything through a plus and minus? It's somewhat utilitarian, but it's also deeper than that. Right?
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It's not just kind of funny because I'm not religious, but the people that have interviewed me, God, Dennis Prager. Oh, geez, I hate it when I can't. I'll just say, but they all say that there's a religious tradition in this. And the advice that I give about leading a productive life has a lot to do with forgiveness, doing the right thing. Because religion instills impulse control. And my book is about impulse control because I'm not religious. So what I'm trying to do is almost offer a secular religious tract. But I didn't mean to. Probably the most important part of the book is to share the risk. I say that a Couple of times. I first heard that phrase from Claire Lehman from Quillette when I interviewed her. And it was. And it was. You know, I had been writing about the cancel culture, and I do think cancel culture is probably one of our biggest threats. If a group doesn't like you, they will try to destroy you. So there's the Breitbart model as the response. Mutually assured destruction. So if John Smith wants to destroy Charlie Kirk by going to Charlie Kirk's employer and saying, if you don't fire Charlie Kirk, I'm gonna do a boycott, then you have the right to know where John Smith works. So then you can direct people to go to his place of work and say, this guy is bullying, blah, blah, blah. That would be like a bright guardian kind of mutually assured destruction, which I don't disagree with, but I don't want to do it. So I'm asking myself why I don't want to do it. Because there's a certain religious element to the idea of turning the other cheek combined with sharing the risk. The idea that rather than go after them, you share the risk with Charlie Kirk or you share the risk with the Covington kid, meaning anybody who gets targeted. Even people on the left, which I think I mentioned it in the book. There's an occasion where there was a guy targeted on the left for doing something, saying something totally stupid. And I really do believe that I had a large part in keeping his job, because when I tweeted a defense of his, it kind of got. It kind of snowballed and stopped that mob from going. So I shared the risk with this guy, and of course, like, two months later, the guy is back to crap it all over me and taking my stuff out of context from the Five and saying I'm a jerk. And it's like, you know what? It's like you can't. But you got to do it. I'm hoping that the message of sharing the risk is going to be the way forward in destroying. Like I should share the risk. If Bill Maher comes under. Under fire, will Bill Maher do the same for me? I don't know, but he should. Jimmy Kimmel. I would. I would share the risk with him if he would share the risk with me. It's that kind of thing. Sometimes I'm guilty of not doing that, but I don't think I've ever called for anybody to be fired, and I've accepted. And the one thing that's in the book that I say a lot, I accept every apology, no matter how bad the crime is, well, not murder, but I mean, like, if somebody screws up and within 24 to 48 hours that I screwed up, I'm sorry. What else can you ask of them? Do you want them to crawl through broken glass? If you really hate, I mean, did Roseanne's mistake about Valerie Jarrett offend you that much that you need to see her career ruined? And it's like, no, you really don't care. You're just looking for the endorphin dopamine rush of that moment of cancellation which lasts like. It's almost like looting. It lasts 20 minutes. Hey, I really destroyed somebody more famous than me. But if this person apologizes, why not accept it? So that's my point. And it is. It just makes me think of, we have. The bar to destruction is so low, we have to make it higher. Somehow sharing the risk and maybe a little mutually assured destruction makes it more of a challenge for that person to come and ruin you. If they think that they're not anonymous. Right? They're not anonymous. If they have skin in the game, we share the risk makes them have skin in the game. So, hey, if John Smith comes after you, he could show up the next day at work and his manager goes like, what's this stuff you're doing on social media? Calling people Hitler and blah, blah. You know what I mean? It's got it. There needs to be a little bit of that.
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Well, you said something really interesting, Greg, where I can't remember exactly the phrase you said. When you're on tv, you feel like there's more weight on you when you say things something like that earlier in this interview. And I think there's a lot of wisdom to that because you're the least anonymous when you're on television. Right. I mean, it's like the opposite of anonymous, Right? You're ubiquitous.
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Yes. Right.
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And so because of that, there's almost this weight of every word you're saying is, this could be the end of my career. I'm going, And I experience the same thing when I go on tv, right?
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Yeah, of course. And not just. And now, I mean, anything. Everything lives forever. And it is kind of funny that people that can destroy you aren't ubiquitous. They're anonymous. They don't have that game. So there's like, you can get 50 people, 20 people. Media Matters. Nobody cares. Nobody cares who works at Media Matters. Those people, their lives are bent on just sitting there watching Fox and going like, oh, what did he say? And it's like, I don't I don't get upset at that. I feel bad that there is somebody who is forced to watch me every day who doesn't like me. I mean, they have to hate, watch me find what I said. Oh my God. And then, and then they have to send it out in hope that Mediaite and God knows who else picks it up. And sometimes they won't. You're like, oh. And it's, it's interesting. So basically when you're on tv, you are absolutely, you are out there saying, come get me. And you have to, in the back of your head, you have to choose your words so carefully, but you also have to tell the truth and you have to entertain. And those two are almost, almost required that you jump off a verbal cliff to take a risk if you're in the other side. It was like always like this. And you always see this with people now who are on TV and they are like, it's like they're so tight lipped because they're afraid that what they might say might ruin their careers. And that's why you also see a lot of celebrities not doing many interviews anymore because it always comes back to haunt them.
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Well, yeah. And so when you're anonymous, you're actually able to be much more destructive. When you don't have an identity, you're able to be on tv. Well, yeah, I mean, but there is something to be said. There is something to be said that the indecency and the cancellation has only been inflamed by how people can hide behind Twitter accounts or they have such small followings they're able to do things that they otherwise wouldn't do or they have duplicate of accounts. And so then all of a sudden you have an entire group of people that are held to an unholy standard and it actually creates really unhappy dynamics between the communicator and the audience. And I think that's also why we have the death of comedy, is because people are like, well, I'm so afraid of offending anyone. Which comedy is. I mean, comedy by definition is offensive.
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Right? And the worst people are the comedians that are kneeling before cancel culture. The ones that say, you know, they have a point. I think it was Sarah Silverman who said, like, it's true, some comedy from 10 years ago. I'm paraphrasing completely, but it was like, I'm pretty sure it was her, but like, you know, attitudes change. You know, it's like so she, and remember she wore blackface, which I, you know, back then I think she was absolutely petrified that she was going to be canceled over blackface. So she, you know, she got on her knees before the crocodile, you know, the crocodile, hoping that it will, you know, always eat till last, you know. And I find I really admire the comedians that are just basically giving the finger to Cancel Culture, and we need to support them when they get in trouble. I love Andrew Schultz and Dave Smith and whole bunch of people that kind of like, they're just. They're doing it without a net, you know. And also that's the other answer, too. Whether it's Joe Rogan, Adam Carolla, Dave Rubin, you got to create your own business for two reasons. One, then you can't be canceled unless they demonetize you on YouTube. And number two, you can get rich. I mean, you can get. I mean, Adam Carolla is rich. Dave Rubin's getting rich. I assume Joe Rogan's worth like hundred million dollars now. So there's an incentive for me to get the hell out of here. You know, it's like I'm thinking, like, what am I doing? But that's the bright spot, is that if you go, the audience will find you and Cancel Culture will be left with a safe, homogenized syrup of inanities. They won.
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And absent people doing that, if you stay in the institutions, the institutions will die alongside the individuals that don't have the creative capacity.
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Absolutely. I think you're seeing it in movies. Movies with messages are dreadful. I think any TV show, I mean, and then you'll see. Netflix, will keep certain shows alive that aren't being watched simply because of the demographic of the. Of the. Of the. Of the talent or just the message. It's. They need to keep the PC elements going. And that. That'll kill your business. It always. Look at Vice magazine. Vice was offensive and disgusting, but at least it was interesting. Now it's. It's a Woke Bible. It is. It is so sad. Anyway, gone down.
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B
And it's gone totally down ever since they've done that. So the. We have a couple minutes remaining. Greg, the book is called the plus. And in your own words, you believe this will be one of the more timeless pieces of literature that you have written. Anything else we didn't cover, Greg? How people can find it, or just kind of big themes you want to communicate?
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No, I think you nailed it. And I do think that it's. For me, anyway, it wasn't something I planned on. And when that happens, it always ends up doing better. Like the stuff that I didn't plan on, like with the five became a success. The stuff that I plan on, they do fine. But I have a feeling because this was an organic thing. I think it's really a different book.
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B
Well, it's terrific. Well, it's called the plus. Greg, keep up the great work. We love watching you every day and thank you for all that you do.
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A
You got it, buddy. Take care. Thanks for the time too. Awesome. Bye. Bye.
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B
What a great episode that was with Greg Gutfeld. If you guys have any questions for me or for guests, email me your questionsreedom charliekirk.com or just me your thoughts? Introduce yourself to me@freedom charliekirk.com I read all the emails. If you want to get involved with TurningPoint USA, go to tpusa.com, tpusa.com and consider supporting us@charliekirk.com support. And for 10 people that hear this, that want to win a signed copy of the New York Times bestseller the Maga Doctrine, type Charlie Kirk show into your podcast provider hit subscribe and give us a five star review. Thank you guys so much for listening. Talk to you soon. God bless.