Eric Metaxas (3:21)

folks. This is a program where I like to be eclectic. I'd like to talk to somebody who's a legend in this business to the point that he's a doddering old man. But I have an affection for him. Charlie Kirk, welcome to the program.

Charlie Kirk (3:35)

Thank you.

Eric Metaxas (3:36)

Am I on your program or are you on my.

Charlie Kirk (3:38)

I can't quite figure it out, but I dressed up just for you, Eric. I wore my favorite T shirt. It's not called Golden Boy. And here we are.

Eric Metaxas (3:47)

I love the fact that a young man like you would be incredibly aware of Seinfeld.

Charlie Kirk (3:54)

Not that there's anything wrong.

Eric Metaxas (3:56)

You know more actual trivia about Seinfeld than I do. But I trump you on four Seinfeld levels. We cannot discuss this right now. We've got to stick to politics because we're losing people. Charlie, you have been right next to the president in the middle of what is obviously history. We're experiencing history right now. I wish it weren't so. And yet it is so. Millions are praying. Millions from around the world are praying for this election, which is obviously not yet settled. What do you see happening right now that people like me might be unaware of? What are you being where you are and being close to the center? What do you see cooking?

Charlie Kirk (4:40)

Yeah, I mean, look, there's no doubt that this election, I don't use this word lightly, was stolen. President Donald Trump outperformed every part of the country that was not a focal point for Joe Biden to get enough votes electorally through the Electoral College to get over the top. Some great examples, Eric. And we have this incredible whiteboard here where we've been going through all of this. I mean, President Donald Trump outperformed Obama. He outperformed mitt Romney, John McCain, and even his own numbers in 2016, dramatically. Miami Dade County President Donald Trump overperformed by 15 points versus 2016 versus his own numbers. President Trump did better in Chicago. He did better in Washington, dc. He did just about as well in, in LA and Boston. He did better in New York City, Eric. He did better by about five or six points in New York City. There were congressional candidates that were supposed to lose in New York, Claudia Tenney, for example, or Nicole Malitakis. And they're doing phenomenal. They haven't certified the election results because New York has this month long election window where you could still try and find as many ballots as you probably need. California's done the same thing, but they're gonna win. I think Nicole actually was determined to be the winner. President Trump won Long island and Sussex County. He won huge parts of the suburbs around New York. He won the suburbs of New Jersey. What's the significance of this is that there probably wasn't a huge focus for absentee ballot funny business, voter registration irregularities, absentee ballot fraud, voting tabulation, Dominion voting systems irregularities. And my best example for all of this, Eric, and this is just the most logical way that I could show it, is I'm from the Midwest. I know Madison, Wisconsin really well. I've been there probably a hundred times. And Madison, Wisconsin, of course, is where the University of Wisconsin Madison is. And so in 2008, at the height of the Obama movement, President Barack Obama got 71% of the support in Dane County, Wisconsin. Joe Biden got 76% this time and 60,000 more votes. And. And the campus is closed, Eric. How is that possible? The campus is a ghost town, Charlie.

Eric Metaxas (7:00)

This is what's so tricky here. And this is why the folks on the other side of this, they're not stupid, they're very clever. They're just not clever enough. But they're very clever. And they've kind of rolled out this plan to win this election by any means necessary. But now that we have time to look at how they did it and how they didn't do it, some of the things that you said come into play in what I'm thinking. It's really fascinating. I mean, the larger point you're making, which maybe people listening aren't aware of, is just the idea that anyone would outperform Barack Obama. I mean, it's kind of an amazing thing because everybody knows that his candidacy was historic. People came out like they've never come out forever. The idea that they would do that for doddering Joe, for one of the lamest candidates we've ever seen. I actually think he made Hillary Clinton look like a good candidate. And I'm not being sarcastic. I actually think that I've never seen anything like him. So the idea that people were pumped to vote for him is laughable. Now, you could say that. Well, they weren't voting for him. They were voting against Trump. Okay, that will account for some of it. Cause some people hate Trump that much, but it still can't account for these numbers. When you just talked about New York, the reason Trump did so well in New York compared to the past or compared to what anybody would have expected is obvious. It's because people who wanted to win this election knew not to focus on New York. They knew New York's gonna go blue. We don't need to worry about it. We only need to worry about the swing states. So it gives us a way to see the difference between these states and these states, between these states and these states. And so you've just made the point. I mean, the idea that New York City, of all places, who hates Trump more than New York City? And yet Trump got 5 to 6% more this time. I didn't know that. It's why I love to talk to you. I keep learning stuff. But I guess the question a lot of folks have, Charlie, is where do you see this going? Because a lot of people are tuned out, or they're just. Let me put it this way, they're afraid to hope. They're afraid because they don't want to be crushed. So they're just trying to steel themselves that everybody says Biden got elected. Get over it. Get over it. And I don't want to be too hopeful. I personally know that we have to fight to the death because to allow an election to be stolen in the United States of America and is. Is. Is evil. We cannot let that happen. But I don't know. I. Was there a question in there someplace?

Charlie Kirk (9:45)

Well, I mean, hope is a tricky thing, because as soon as you begin to have hope, you also then open yourself up to the possibility of being crushed. And those of us that have been through failing elections are kind of. I get a lot of emails from people saying, charlie, am I allowed to have a little bit of hope right now? Because I just kind of began to get over this a couple weeks ago. And so look, here's where we are right now. The question is, did the Democrats commit a perfect crime? And we don't know yet. These are. My guess is no. My guess is that. And here's why. And I can Kind of take you through this. The Saturday before the election, I was driving through Wisconsin. I was doing a couple political events, and I was getting a little bit anxious because I started to see on the ground the changes that I saw in 2016. The crowd sizes, the normal people showing up. When I would go into a gas station or a restaurant and I would ask just normal people who they were voting for. They were tilting towards President Trump, not because they loved him, but they realized the consequences of the election. These were married women, suburban voters. I started to see it anecdotally, I started to see it on the ground. Yet I didn't see it reflected in any of the public polling and the public polling that I usually just throw out as garbage. For example, Quinnipiac is an absolute garbage poll. They should be decommissioned. They should all resign and retire. Any news network that uses them should be a disgrace. Nate Silver, he's a con man. He should resign. The Cook Political Report. I saw them on television the other day. They weren't just wrong, Eric. I mean, it was the opposite of the truth. They said that Nancy Pelosi was gonna get 244seats in the House. She'll be lucky if she gets 225. She'll probably end up at 221. To be off by 20 seats is incredible. So here's the point is that as I was seeing things on the ground, I didn't see it yet break in public polling. And none of the people I were talking to in some of the state races or some of the Senate races were yet seeing it in internal polling. Until Eric, on Saturday evening, the Des Moines Register poll came out. Do you remember this? Where the Des Moines Register poll showed Donald Trump up 7 points, the same number as in 2016. And I said, this is it. The tide is breaking. The Biden campaign is not gonna have time to be able to recover from this. And it set the entire political world on fire. And you might remember that Sunday and Monday, the polling, all that got released kind of didn't get make any news coverage. It just got stopped covering. They're like, well, we're so close to an election, who knows what's gonna happen? And all the public polling started all of a sudden reflect President Trump because he really got on message. He was doing so many rallies. People realized the significance of the election and. And the late breakers were going for Donald Trump. And it's my theory that the Democrat Chicago mobsters that run a big part of the apparatus of politics on the left, they were scrambling and they were worrying and wondering what can they possibly do? And it is my working theory, Eric, that there was a stand down order, doing the best possible Hillary Clinton Benghazi impersonation they could do where they said stop counting the votes in Atlanta, Milwaukee, Detroit and Philadelphia. We have still not received answer why they stopped counting the votes in just those four cities. And what's even more creepy is many of the news networks seem to know it was going to happen. They were incredibly slow to call Florida, so slow to call Ohio. By midnight they were still saying, well, we can't call some of these states yet. They called Arizona and Virginia almost instantaneously.

Eric Metaxas (13:14)

Including Chris Stirewalt on Fox News. He seemed to be all over that. He was asked about that the other day on Fox Business and he said he was proud that he was ahead, that he got the scoop. And he sneered rather openly at the idea of people saying, well, it doesn't look like we're going to be able to get the actual counts because of the recounts and stuff. So we've got to kind of go back to this Dominion thing and talk about that.

Charlie Kirk (13:45)

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Eric Metaxas (14:45)

we have an historic moment happening in America. You're close to the president and close to other people who are close to the president and you have a particular perspective. I wanna continue talking to you about that because I think it's important for those who do not have that kind of access to hear what's going on on the inside. So let's start there. What do you see happening around the President. What are his spirits? What is the sense of where we go from here?

Charlie Kirk (15:19)

Well, I think that he's in a fighting spirit and that's exactly the correct posture. All the irregularities, the fraud, the issues, the upload issues. He is not going to take the 1960 Richard Nixon tact where he just concedes for the betterment of the country, which I actually think we're still living. We're living the consequences of Richard Nixon not contesting the 1960 election.

Eric Metaxas (15:44)

Okay, look, not everybody knows about that. I've referred to it a couple times on this program. But help my audience tell us what happened in 1960. Not that I haven't covered it in my own books, but go ahead.

Charlie Kirk (15:55)

Well, I'll do it as quickly as I can. Richard Nixon running up against John F. Kennedy. Richard Nixon was actually the sitting Vice President. It was a super tight race. Joseph P. Kennedy, John F. Kennedy's father, was a bootlegger, bad guy, anti Semite, super rich. Realized that it was gonna come down to one city in one state, calls the mayor of Chicago, Mayor Daley, and basically makes a deal and says, I need you to start canvassing cemeteries. Do what you do in Chicago, get my son to be elected president. And it's one of the most well documented, well known instances of voter fraud. At the last moment to get a certain candidate elected and the reports start coming out, JFK is called the winner and Richard Nixon decides not to fight it and to concede for the betterment of the country and for what he thinks a healing part for America. I think that was a mistake. It was stolen by Democrat thugs and they've been doing it ever since. And a lot of JFK's decisions in the early parts of his presidency were pandering to the wishes and the demands of Mayor Daley, whether it be the railroad decisions, whether it be all sorts of different sort of public policy decisions. That's a different Chicago wrinkle that we could add into it. The point is this, is that problems that are not confronted multiply. That is a rule of life. When you see a problem and you do not confront it, it will multiply and then it will become permanent. And that is exactly what we have seen with Democrat voter fraud over the last 40 or 50 years. It just so happens that Donald Trump is so enormously popular, he was so unpredictable, politically impossible to pollute, hard to pinpoint and target, that they needed to now resort to what I think was Plan C. This was not Plan A or B. Plan A was they were going to win by so much, they didn't need this on the margins. Plan C was to stop the voting, get as many ballots as you can that were questionable, no signature verification, win on the margins, and dominate the mechanics of politics in four urban cities.

Eric Metaxas (17:47)

Okay, there's a lot of questions that come out of this, but before I get to those, I want to say what Nixon did in 1960, it kind of reminds me of what some of the patrician class, the Prussian military did with Hitler. They were too civilized to fight this thug, and when they realized that he and his fellow criminals had taken over the great nation of Germany, it. It was too late. So there's a time to be civil, and there's a time to understand that if you're too civil, your throat will be cut and your children will be murdered. Nixon did that in 1960 for the good of the country. And I would say when JFK wrote his book Profiles in Courage, which we know was written by his friend Ted

Charlie Kirk (18:41)

Sorensen, I was going to say he

Eric Metaxas (18:42)

didn't write it, and he got a Pulitzer Prize, which is all. It's just despicable, the whole thing. But who ought to have been the first chapter in Profiles in Courage? Obviously, it ought to have been Richard Nixon, except the book was written before 1960. But I'm saying that what Nixon did was a profile in courage. It's what a statesman does, it's what a patriot does. They take a bullet for the team and they live to fight another day. That's precisely the opposite of what Biden would do. We have. Clearly, the election's not been decided, and he's already declared himself President elect with signage and everything like that. But what Nixon did is an amazing thing. And you're quite right to point out that today is a completely different day. And for Trump to do that would be an act, Would be a profile in cowardice. He must do what we know he will do and is doing already, which is to confront this vile abomination of corruption in our electoral system. There is nothing more horrific than in a free country to countenance this kind of thing in one city, much less across the board. So it brings me to my question, Charlie. Who. Who do you think? Because these would be conspirators. Who do you think gave the high sign or made the plan behind the scenes what to do on election night? These are our people. This wasn't an algorithm. Who do you suppose are the mandarins of power on the Democratic side? Who are. Who made these decisions?

Charlie Kirk (20:13)

Yeah, it's hard to say, I mean, there's a lot of different working theories here, and I think they all might have some element of truth together. And so some people are very focused on the Hammer scorecard, the Dominion voting systems. And I think that actually there's a lot behind that. We've already seen that one of the Dominion voting systems changed 6000 votes in Michigan from a Republican losing to a Republican winning. We've seen memory stick upload issues in three counties now in Georgia that otherwise would not have been found if it wasn't for the canvassing and the audit in Georgia. I also think that there's a lot to be said, though, about a phrase that I coined called ballot laundering, where all these ballots were sent out and you enlist 30 or 40 criminals, which it always stuns me. People say, well, voter fraud doesn't exist. I say, we have crimes in every form of society. Everything. It's like saying money laundering doesn't exist. They're like, well, I went into my local laundromat, I couldn't see any money laundering. I'm like, yeah, that's the point is that I counted all their dollar bills. I audited them. I said, well, do you look at their books? Did you talk to their customers? Did you see that guy come with a big thing of cash and say, yeah, you know, wash some of my briefs and my suits. You have to look a little bit deeper with a little more complexity. And ballot laundering is what the New York Times said in 2012. It exists all over. They used to cover this stuff ferociously, which is called granny farming. There was a 1,774% increase in voter registration for people over the age of 90 in Pennsylvania in the midst of a pandemic this year, 1007.

Eric Metaxas (21:43)

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Say that again. Nobody's ever said 1,774%.

Charlie Kirk (21:50)

I say these numbers so often, I feel like everyone knows it by now. So I guess, I guess, well, that's

Eric Metaxas (21:54)

why I'm here, to slow you down and to make you speak to the American public.

Charlie Kirk (21:59)

There was a.

Eric Metaxas (21:59)

Say again.

Charlie Kirk (22:00)

There was a 1,774% increase in voter registration for 90 plus year olds in the year 2020. In the midst of a pandemic. It's inexplicable. It's not true.

Eric Metaxas (22:14)

You call this granny farming?

Charlie Kirk (22:16)

I did not coin that term. The New York Times did, believe it or not, in 2012.

Eric Metaxas (22:22)

It's very funny, except it's crime. So you're telling me that that's an actual figure 1,774% increase in voter registration among. Say it again.

Charlie Kirk (22:37)

90, 90 plus year olds in the midst of a pandemic.

Eric Metaxas (22:40)

Yeah, because you can just see them blasting out of their driveways at 100 mile an hour to register during a pandemic knowing that they might die. That's logical. Charlie, let me ask you a question for a change. I just asked who do we think was behind this? And you gave a complex answer. But I guess the point is that there have to be figures, elders in the party, at the DNC who make decisions that we're going to do a wide ranging multi state campaign to steal this election. So the question is, who are these people when the votes stop getting counted suddenly in a number of swing states or in the number of swing states. Clearly that's not a coincidence. Somebody has to be behind that. Do we have any idea who is hiding back in the weeds? Who was pulling these levers?

Charlie Kirk (23:37)

Yeah, I mean there's some suspects that we all have in mind. My best guess, cuz this feels like a Chicago operation that was exported to the four major cities is the Obama political team. My guess is that the Biden team leaned on some of the Obama machinery and experience to do this. I'm talking about the Axelrods, the Jarretts, the Stalinsky types that Eric Holder. Yeah, those types, exactly. But understand this was a multi year process in getting the right people. Remember, personnel is policy. This is something Republicans and conservatives fail to ever realize. The people you have actually are a reflection of. The policy that will happen is that they won district attorney races, they won Secretary of state races, they spent tons of money on changing the way we do balloting. For example, Stacey Abrams might have lost the battle in 2018, but she won the war. Brian Kemp and Raffensperger, the guy that's the Secretary of State in Georgia, they gave Stacey Abrams everything she wanted when she came in with $40 million. Eighteen months ago, when all of us were worrying about Elizabeth Warren versus Beto versus all this, you know what Stacey Abrams is worrying about? She was suing with $40 million in the bank with a high priced Washington D.C. law firm getting the absentee ballot threshold completely changed. For example, in 2018 and 2016, 4% of all absentee ballots were rejected for lack of signature verification. It's less than half of 1% this election now with more absentee ballots than ever before because of the pandemic, with more people voting by mail, we now have a lower threshold of rejection. So let's pretend it was even just 2%. That's 40,000 ballots that would have been rejected for lack of signature verification. And for issues of the balloting, President Donald Trump would win Georgia. He still can if you just reinstitute the same ballot practices. Now why did it change? It's because Stacey Abrams came in with $40 million funded through tax credits of Hollywood figures that redomicile to Georgia because with their parasitic mind, they wanna destroy more states that work. They come into Georgia, write her big checks, the tech billionaires do the same thing, and then Raffensperger and Brian Kemp run to the hills cuz they don't wanna be called the R word in a state that had a, let's just say, complex racial past. And Stacey Abrams gets everything she wants and all of a sudden Republicans are like, won't really matter, we'll win Georgia by two points instead of three points. And all of a sudden you realize, no, when these elections come down to 50,000 votes and you're able to have a different threshold of how the actual mechanics of elections are done, then you're gonna lose. And the last point I'll say is this, is that the Democrats have employed Sun Tzu's Art of War far better than we did. They actually cared about the terrain of which the battle was fought on. We couldn't care less. We're like, well, this is an idea battle. No, it's not. This has nothing to do high taxes, low taxes, defund the police. It's whether or not ballots are gonna be counted correctly. Republicans have never cared about that. And now we start to see the consequences of that.

Eric Metaxas (26:39)

Well, it's funny because the idea that, you know, Chicago, you know, using the dead to vote, going to graveyards and getting names, the idea that Democratic cities are corrupt, it's like a joke. And yet you think, why would we allow something like that to be significant enough that we would joke about it? I mean, what could be more despicable in the United States of America that this could go on? And honestly, if not for Donald Trump, we wouldn't even be looking at this. And if he had won easily on November 3rd or on the morning of the 4th, we might not be looking into this. So I actually, Charlie, see it as a blessing from God that we are able to deal with this and actually drain the swamp. I think that these folks are gonna be hoist by their own petard to quote Shakespeare, or that they're going to like Haman to quote the Bible. They're gonna build a gallows from which they themselves hang.

Charlie Kirk (27:43)

Yeah, I sure Hope so. I mean, look, voter fraud's well documented. Just go to Duval county in Texas, when Lyndon Baines Johnson used to canvas cemeteries. And the old story goes like this, where they used to go through cemeteries at night to correlate old voter registration records. And Lyndon Baines Johnson was walking through the cemetery with one of his political operatives, and they couldn't read the name on one of the gravestones, and they moved to the next one. And LBJ says, get over here. Every single person in the cemetery has a right for their voice to be heard in this election. That's a well known story in Texas politics.

Eric Metaxas (28:18)

Right. Well, we know that there was no greater skunk and criminal in the White House than Lyndon Baines Johnson. There's no doubt about that in my mind. And he has some close competitors, but he wins. But the idea that politics is that dirty game that ought to be banished from public life, it's really a cancer on the body politic that we would allow even ourselves to joke about it or to allow it. It's counter to everything the founders stood for, all of whom were noble men.

Charlie Kirk (28:51)

Yeah, I have a contrarian opinion here. You might agree or disagree, Eric, but we kind of let this happen in a different sense. When you do not prosecute injustice, then again, problems that are not confronted multiply. When Peter Strzok and Lisa Page and Brennan and Clapper are able to do what they did, then why wouldn't they also execute the largest voter fraud operation in modern American history? If all of a sudden you're going to go after Dinesh d', Souza, Steve Bannon, Wayne lapierre, Roger Stone, and every person that's ever had a conversation with President Trump, but you allow every single Democrat operative to run free, of course they're gonna try to do stuff like this. And you're right. But I think that we have to realize that politics is just a reflection of the country that we live in. And when we do not go after the sort of widespread criminality in June, the taking down of the statues, the burning of our cities, of course, then they're gonna cheat in elections. And this goes to something that Rudy Giuliani proved as mayor in the 1990s, which is the little bit of graffiti will be a murder tomorrow. And you remember this, right? And this is now playing itself out in American politics, which is the toppling of the statue in Fairfax, Virginia. That's okay. Well, those same thugs are now gonna try and fill out ballots to defeat the fascist that they just wanted to tear a statue down against. It's all interconnected.

Eric Metaxas (30:10)

Well, I mean, actually, I think you're making my point. I don't think you were disagreeing with me. I think that that is the point. When you allow things to go on with a wink and you say, well, that's just the way it is. That ought not to be our point of view. When somebody breaks a window or sprays graffiti on something, you don't take the racist view and say, well, that's just how those people behave in that neighborhood. No, no, no. You do the opposite. You treat them the way you treat every other American. You say, we don't do that here, and you prosecute them, and then the next time they'll think twice about it. I think that, you know, that's called the broken windows theory. It was used by Rudy Giuliani to staggering effect in New York City. And de Blasio is undoing that as quickly as he can. But it is simply true. But it reflects the larger ideology, Charlie, that we were talking about, is that when you kind of laugh at something or you turn it into a joke, how is it possible that you would allow LBJ or JFK to get away with this and then let this go on through the decades? And. And so you're quite right. That is, we're where we are because of this. And I would say the statues were torn down because we didn't deal with that previous stuff. It goes on and on. But I do think that right now we have an opportunity to deal with this. I think a lot of people are gonna go to prison. I'll be honest, where this is gonna go.

Charlie Kirk (31:36)

And this has a cascading effect that only one thing feeds into the other. And then, finally, we shouldn't act surprised when Republicans are almost paralyzed from prosecuting some of the stuff or fighting on the ballot issues because they want to be called. Because they're afraid they're going to be called racist. And that's what's happening in a lot of these cities. Philadelphia, Atlanta, Milwaukee and Detroit. You have these Board of Supervisors, some of which are standing very strong, but you're not even allowed to look into the voting irregularities because they say, well, why do you hate black people? And that's just not even close to the intention. Nor is that even close to the result of any of the reasons why we're looking into this. And they have, excuse me, it's being

Eric Metaxas (32:18)

looked into because we love black people. That's the whole point. This is the ultimate gaslighting. And that if you don't care about every American, you just let this stuff go. But look, we have a lot of cowards and we have a lot of people that they're just not, they're not able to fight these battles.

Charlie Kirk (32:39)

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Eric Metaxas (33:58)

I still wanna go back, Charlie, to the who. The idea that there are people, actual people behind this, we don't know yet. But I think that that's the bigger issue and that's the issue we have to deal with. It's one thing to figure out this election to figure out who won, or rather to prove that Trump won, which it seems clear he did. It's another thing then to say who is so cynical and so criminal that they would dare, that they would dare to try to steal an election from the American people who are the government? Let me ask you. People want to know if folks like you and me believe that Trump actually won. I had Dick Morris on this program the other day. He said without question, he knows that Trump won. So the question, of course becomes, how will this play out? If he won, how do we prove that he won? How do we force those opposing his victory to accept it?

Charlie Kirk (35:03)

Yeah, there's a Couple different buckets here. The first of which, without having to get to the U.S. supreme Court, can there be some ruling or determination of spoiled ballots, for example, signature verification, ballots that weren't sorted properly, people that were not given access. That's a very high threshold to throw out ballots, but it's not impossible. There's plenty of precedent for that. The second is. So that's kind of a more of a very technical. Were the ballots sorted properly? Were the ballots given signature verification? Did you go through the same process that you did in other ones? If not, why, that could actually be very favorable for President Trump, especially in Georgia and Pennsylvania. Those are the two states where things are really. They've really been mucked up, to be honest with you. They've really been kind of thrown together that we've been getting half answers, upload issues, people not given access. I would not be surprised if a court comes in, maybe the Supreme Court, and says, look, any of these backdated ballots are not gonna be counted in the Pennsylvania election. That could change a lot of the outcome, but that's not gonna be enough. The thing that all of us are waiting for, that we know exists, but whether or not we are in possession of that which it exists, is what Sidney Powell is kind of teasing us with is, is there verifiable evidence that you can present in front of a hostile judge that can show that the tabulation, the machinery, the Dominion voting systems, was changing votes? Can you actually prove that?

Eric Metaxas (36:35)

Sidney Powell, she said on Maria Bartimoro, she said, I wouldn't be saying this if I couldn't prove it. I wouldn't be claiming this if I could prove it.

Charlie Kirk (36:42)

And look, I know Sidney very well, and I remember when she was going on news channels just like that a year ago, and she was being ridiculed when people were saying, how can you possibly say that Michael Flynn was entrapped? And she said, oh, just wait till the 302s come out. And she was proven correct 100%. And so Sidney Powell, what are 302s? A 302 is a document that FBI agents fill out after they do something. So Peter Smirk, after he went into the White House and entrapped Michael Flynn, wrote down, we have to go get Michael Flynn. I'm paraphrasing here. Right. And so then Sidney Powell with Judge Jackson, or Judge. I can't get them all confused. He declassified the documents and Sidney Powell was proven correct. Sidney Powell also wrote license to lie. What am I saying all this. Sidney Powell is not just better call Saul from Breaking Bad. Right. She's a real lawyer. She's credible. She's been correct before. And so she's. That's what we're all waiting for. She calls it the Kraken. We call it hope, because she now is getting a lot of people's hopes up, myself included, that there will be a massive revelation that could possibly order a revote. Now, Article 3 of the Constitution states clearly and precedent shows the Supreme Court can do basically whatever they want. The Supreme Court, because of past decisions that you and I disagree with when it comes to gay marriage and abortion, the Supreme Court basically can come in as a nine person, you know, czarist branch and be like revote, and there would be no stopping them. Whether I support that kind of judicial action or not remains to be seen. I would want to see the evidence that would make them do that. I think that is somewhat unlikely. I think what is more likely, though, is that they could authorize or order some form of a recount, audit or segmenting of ballots. And look, we're talking about 40,000 ballots. That are the differential in the states that would make President Trump president. Georgia, if they just had the same absentee ballot threshold they did in prior states. Trump wins Georgia. In Michigan, if Dominion Voting Systems did what we think it has done, Trump wins Michigan. If in Wisconsin, an honest observer can look at what happened in Wisconsin, Trump can win Wisconsin. So these elections have not been certified, and we know the lengths that these people are willing to go to. And I want to just say one thing, Eric. You wrote the book on Bonhoeffer. It's one of the greatest books written out, written in the last couple decades in general, let alone on World War II and Dietrich Bonhoeffer, they think they are all Bonhoeffer. They think that they are trying to get rid of a fascist leader. So think of what you and I would be willing to do to try and defeat 1930s Hitler. That's what they think they're doing. And so we have to dismiss ourselves of thinking. We have to dismiss the thinking that they think they're trying to influence an election. They think they're trying to displace a dictator. And when you start to put on that sort of thinking cap, a lot of the stuff starts to make more sense of the lengths that they're willing to go to.

Eric Metaxas (39:54)

That is a brilliant framing, Charlie, because first of all, it's correct, but it's brilliant because I think we need to step back and understand what you just said. Most of these people, or at least many of them are, in fact, they're not cynical old timers like Joe Biden who kind of with a wink and an odd, they've been getting through working the system. Many of these people are crusaders who do believe that Donald Trump is Hitler 2.0 and that they would be themselves morally disgusting not to do anything they can. So that is really, that's really important. It's important to know what we're, what we're up against. The good thing is that there are tons of people praying. Prayer works. I don't think God is through with this nation and by his grace, we'll get through this. But people are going to have to stay on their knees, fasting and praying. Charlie, always great to speak with you. God bless you, my friend.

Charlie Kirk (40:56)

Thank you. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us your questions freedomarliekirk.com please consider supporting us@charliekirk.com support and if you want to get involved with Turning Point USA, go to tpusa.com tpusa.com and come to our Student Action Summit where we play offense with a sense of urgency to win America's culture war. TPUSA.com SAMS thanks so much for listening, everybody. God bless.