How Do You Send 14 Million People Home?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Charlie Kirk Show – "How Do You Send 14 Million People Home?"

Release Date: April 10, 2025

Introduction

In the episode titled "How Do You Send 14 Million People Home?", host Charlie Kirk delves into pivotal issues surrounding immigration, political leadership, and cultural heroes with a lineup of distinguished guests: Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, immigration expert Mark Krikorian from the Center for Immigration Studies, and renowned author and commentator Eric Metaxas. The discussion navigates the complexities of Texas's Senate race, the state of U.S. border security, and the enduring legacy of Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

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1. Texas Senate Race: Ken Paxton Challenges John Cornyn

Timestamp: [00:00 – 10:08]

Guest: Ken Paxton, Attorney General of Texas

Charlie Kirk opens the discussion with Attorney General Ken Paxton, who announces his challenge against incumbent Republican Senator John Cornyn for a fifth term. Paxton articulates several reasons for his primary bid, focusing on Cornyn's recent legislative decisions that Paxton believes have alienated Texas Republican voters.

Key Points:

• Gun Rights and Second Amendment: Paxton criticizes Cornyn for supporting restrictive gun legislation, stating, "he limited our gun rights and inflicted damage to the Second Amendment" ([01:44]).
• Border Security: He highlights dissatisfaction with Cornyn's handling of border security, emphasizing the importance Texans place on this issue ([03:35]).
• Candidate Longevity: Paxton questions Cornyn's extended tenure, noting, "after 24 years, the people of Texas have had enough" ([02:49]).
• Campaign Strategy and Optimism: Paxton expresses confidence in his campaign, citing favorable polling data and past election successes, asserting, "there is no good reason for him to run" ([04:28]).

Notable Quotes:

• "We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country." – Charlie Kirk ([00:34])
• "The people of Texas deserve two very strong conservative centers. We're going to go support President Trump." – Ken Paxton ([09:07])

Campaign Details: Paxton shares his campaign website, kenpaxton.com, encouraging listeners to support his bid to unseat Cornyn. He emphasizes grassroots funding and his commitment to advancing President Trump's agenda ([07:52], [10:08]).

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2. Immigration and Border Security: Insights from Mark Krikorian

Timestamp: [11:10 – 26:44]

Guest: Mark Krikorian, Executive Director, Center for Immigration Studies

Mark Krikorian provides an analysis of the dramatic decline in illegal border crossings since former President Donald Trump's administration. He attributes this "sea change" to robust border controls and contrasts it with the policies of the Biden administration.

Key Points:

• Decline in Border Crossings: Krikorian notes a "90 plus percent drop" in illegal crossings under Trump compared to over 10 million during Biden's tenure ([12:18]).
• Challenges in Deportation: He discusses the complexities of deporting individuals who claim asylum, highlighting systemic inefficiencies and the need for legislative reform ([15:36], [18:34]).
• Self-Deportation and Employer Enforcement: Emphasizing the importance of worksite enforcement, Krikorian suggests that targeting employers can significantly reduce illegal immigration by limiting job opportunities for undocumented individuals ([23:10], [24:35]).
• Future Immigration Policy Needs: Krikorian advocates for the withdrawal from the UN Refugee Treaty and the overhaul of asylum laws to streamline deportations and prevent system abuse ([16:12]).

Notable Quotes:

• "The border can be controlled. Doesn't mean everything's fixed because you've still got all kinds of illegal aliens that Biden let in." – Mark Krikorian ([12:18])
• "There's a real danger of that, I'm afraid. And that's the goal of the anti borders people, both on the left and the libertarians, is to have a kind of one way border where you can come in but we can't get you out." – Mark Krikorian ([19:08])

Policy Discussions: Krikorian elaborates on the necessity for Congressional action to reform immigration laws, stressing that executive actions alone are insufficient to address the immigration crisis. He also touches upon the importance of securing other choke points beyond the land border, such as visa overstays and sanctuary cities ([25:01], [26:44]).

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3. Economic Policies and Cultural Heroes: Eric Metaxas on Trump and Bonhoeffer

Timestamp: [28:00 – 38:53]

Guest: Eric Metaxas, Author and Salem Radio Host

Eric Metaxas praises President Donald Trump's economic policies, particularly the tariffs imposed on the Chinese Communist Party, framing them as necessary measures against global bullying and unfair trade practices.

Key Points:

• Tariffs Against China: Metaxas commends Trump’s decisive actions against China, stating, "only President Trump has the courage to do it" ([29:02]).
• Dietrich Bonhoeffer Film Promotion: He introduces a film about Dietrich Bonhoeffer, drawing parallels between Bonhoeffer's resistance against Nazi tyranny and the current political climate, urging listeners to watch the film as a model of Christian courage ([30:20], [36:58]).
• Bonhoeffer’s Legacy: Metaxas underscores Bonhoeffer’s role as a Christian hero who stood against evil, likening him to modern leaders who must act with similar courage in the face of contemporary challenges ([33:34], [37:56]).

Notable Quotes:

• "I love this president. He has just been so extraordinary." – Eric Metaxas ([29:02])
• "Bonhoeffer is the ultimate hero. But the left, which we now know is insane, they tried to destroy this film." – Eric Metaxas ([33:34])

Bonhoeffer Discussion: Metaxas delves into the life and legacy of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, emphasizing his steadfast Christian faith and heroic stand against the Nazis. He criticizes the left for opposing the portrayal of Bonhoeffer in the new film, viewing it as an attack on Christian values and the defense of Israel ([30:20], [37:56]).

Call to Action: Listeners are encouraged to watch the Bonhoeffer film available on platforms like Amazon Prime and Apple TV, and to explore Metaxas’s comprehensive biography on Bonhoeffer for an authentic understanding of his contributions ([36:58]).

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Conclusion

The episode "How Do You Send 14 Million People Home?" presents a robust discussion on critical issues facing America today. From the high-stakes Texas Senate race and the imperative of stringent immigration policies to the celebration of historical Christian heroes like Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Charlie Kirk and his guests provide insightful perspectives aimed at empowering listeners with knowledge and encouraging active participation in America's cultural and political discourse.

For more information and to support the initiatives discussed, listeners are directed to visit freedomarliekirk.com.

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

Hey, everybody. We got Ken Paxton, Mark Kakorian, and Eric Metaxas. Three powerful interviews. Primary John Cornyn, securing the southern border, and Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Great topics, great conversation. Email us freedomarliekirk.com Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

[Ken Paxton]

Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

[Mark Krikorian]

I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

[Eric Metaxas]

I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy, his spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.

[Charlie Kirk]

We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold [e-mail] that is noblegoldinvestments.com it's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegoldinvestments.com In Texas, there is some breaking news. You have John Cornyn, who's been around for quite a while. John Cornyn has had some very, let's say, questionable votes in the last couple of years. And primary him is Ken Paxton, the Attorney General of Texas, and he joins us right now. Ken, welcome to the program. It's a major announcement. People can Support [e-mail] Tell us why you are primary ing the incumbent Republican Senator John Cornyn from the state of Texas.

[Ken Paxton]

First of all, thanks for having me on. It's nice that you get to sit in your seat. Usually I'm sitting in your seat when you interview me. That's right. So, yeah. So I've been watching John Kohner, obviously very, very close to the situation in Texas. And it's been disappointing, not just to me, but to our primary voters. Two years ago, three years ago, he went on stage at the Republican convention, and for 30 straight minutes, he got booed. He had just worked to pass this restrictive gun legislation, worked with Joe Biden. Joe Biden was congratulating President Trump, was criticizing and saying he was a rhino. And the people of Texas were furious that he limited our gun rights and that he inflicted damage to the Second Amendment, which then the ATF used to try to pass more regulations that I had to go sue on. So these are the types of things that have not endeared John Cornyn to the Republican voters of Texas. And it's really obvious that after 20, you said he's been there a while. He's working on 24 years in the Senate. When he finishes, he wants to be there 30. The people of Texas have had enough at 24.

[Charlie Kirk]

So talk more about what the case you are going to bring to the people of Texas. I know that a survey conducted by Tony Fabrizio found you winning by nearly 25 points and Tony is the best. I mean he is the gold standard. So it shows that Ken Paxton's chances of beating John Cornyn are quite good. But what do you have to say to some of the folks in Texas that have known Senator Cornyn for a while? They consider him a friend. They donate to his campaign and they would say, Ken, you're just being a rabble rouser. You're causing a problem where it's not necessary. We shouldn't divide ourselves. We just should focus on Democrats. What is your response? Cuz I'm sure you're gonna hear that quite a lot.

[Ken Paxton]

So I actually already have. I've talked to several of these people and I and they've said, you know, we, we're supporting John because he's our friend. And I've asked them the question why is John Cornyn running again for his fifth term? And the answer from them usually is well. And it's very they pause and they're like, well, you know, we don't know. We don't actually even think he should run. We've told him five terms is too many but he's our friend so we're sticking with them and we're going to spend a lot of money to beat you. There is no good reason for him to run. And I don't know what it is, I haven't heard what is he going to do different than what he's done in the past? And then how do we know he's going to be different? He doesn't have accomplishments that we're proud of. We do know things that he's done, including lots of spending in the Ukraine versus spending on our own border that we're not happy with. And Texas voters really care about immigration, they really care about second Amendment and those are two things that he's focused on and gone the other way. Those are problems for us.

[Charlie Kirk]

So Attorney General Paxton, what would you also have to say to the objection but you can't win a general election. Again, I'm sure you're going to hear this all the time that you're just going to lose this seat and throw it to the Democrats. How would you respond?

[Ken Paxton]

So I've heard that in every general election I've run in, and yet when you look at my general election results, even statewide, that's never been true. I've always performed relative to Abbott and Patrick. So for instance, in the last election, I spent $6 million. They said the same thing after I went through a brutal primary with three people running against people, all well funded, including George P. Bush. And I went through a runoff and I overwhelmingly won that by 38 points. Then they said, well, he can't win. We got it to replace him because he win the general election, which is what they always say. And then I've always won it. So this time I spent $6 million in general election. I won by 10. Dan Patrick, who's awesome, spent about 25 or so, and he won by about the same amount. And Abbott spent, you know, 150 or more and he won by 11. So it's just not true. My numbers come out very similar. And that's always the argument that people like Corny make because they can't come up with another reason why they should be elected.

[Charlie Kirk]

So let's dive deeper into one of these elements here. What do you also have to say to Texans that are worried that you're leaving your attorney general position?

[Ken Paxton]

So I would say this. I've done this for 12 years and I love it. And it's, I think it's time, I think, you know, I think holding on to offices too long, I think you lose some of your freshness. And I think it's time for a change. I think it's time for me to change, time for John Porter to change. I think that we have people coming up the ranks that could potentially win this. And look, I can't control who wins it, but I think there will be some very good people running. And I have lots of hope that they, they've, they've seen the model that we've set up and that they have a pretty good idea of how to follow that. And, and certainly I would be happy to give, you know, ideas of how to do that because I think we've done some amazing things. And I want an aggressive attorney general from Texas because I think it's not only good for Texas, I think it's good for the whole country.

[Charlie Kirk]

Unfortunately, we've seen a pattern of people that go to the US Senate and they just kind of lose their gusto and their spirit. I don't think we're gonna see that from you. But what specifically would you want to see a US Senator from Texas do, especially in this next year? What do you wanna see the focus be? What do you want to see the agenda specifically, if you were to become the US Senator from Texas?

[Ken Paxton]

So I think it's pretty important right now to support President Trump. His agenda is something amazing. I mean, whether it's his tax cuts or whether it's his. What he's doing, even with tariffs, even with China reform, what's going on with these crazy judges that are out of control. The agenda is one of the best I've ever seen, if not the best I've ever seen in my life. So there's lots of stuff to support. And I think it's very true that John Cornyn has not been that guy. I know he is. Suddenly he's gotten religion, and he will have that religion until the election's over. But I will be there from the beginning and to the end, because I actually believe this stuff. It's in my heart, it's in my soul, and I will be supportive of President Trump and everything he's doing.

[Charlie Kirk]

So, Ken, I know a lot of our audience wants to support you. What does the campaign look like? When is the primary? What is the process? And how has Senator Cornyn responded?

[Ken Paxton]

Well, so I don't think he has much to respond to. He doesn't have a past that he can go out and talk about in the Republican primary. He can talk about it in a general election because, you know, he's reached out to Democrats and moderates, but he doesn't have. He doesn't have initiatives or things he's worked on that are. That are good Republican issues. On the other hand, he can't really talk about the bad things he's done. Guns and border and criticizing President Trump. So his campaign guarantee will be negative attacks on me. It won't work. I've been through this many times. But that is where he is going with his money. On the other hand, I will be out for the next 11 months. Our primary is March of next year, first Tuesday of March. I have a lot of practice in talking to Republican voters. I will be out talking to Republican voters. I will be out raising money. And I can tell you I will raise a lot of money, and I will get my message across about what it is that I want to do that is different than what he's done and how I will oppose some of the very things that he pushed so hard.

[Charlie Kirk]

So this is gonna escalate in A very significant and serious way. Kind of final question here. What would you have to say for those that say that this is going to thwart President Trump's Senate agenda, meaning it puts at risk his agenda in the United States Senate? Could John Cornyn go rogue like a John McCain?

[Ken Paxton]

John's not going to go rogue. He's going to be a good boy for the next year and a half, and then he'll go back to being what he is, which is a moderate to, you know, somebody who is going to answer to DC as opposed to the citizens of Texas. In the end, it's the people of Texas that elect the senator from Texas. And we've elected a very good one, Senator Ted Cruz. They have a right to their choice and they do not want John Cornyn. And I think the next 11 months are going to prove that. And I think the polling already shows strongly. As a Republican senator, there is no way that he should be down as an incumbent that served four terms by 25 points. And that is not my only fault. I have separate polls from different pollsters that are very similar to that, that are not worse, that are even a little better. So the people of Texas deserve. We're not in Vermont. We're not in Maine. We are in Texas. We deserve two very strong conservative centers. We're going to go support President Trump.

[Charlie Kirk]

Very good. Repeat the website and how people can support you. Attorney General Paxton.

[Ken Paxton]

Well, thank you for bringing that up. Kenpaxton.com and you can learn about my campaign as well as contribute. Obviously, they are going to have a lot of money from Washington and we're going to have a lot of money from just the grassroots. And that's where my money comes from. So really appreciate you mentioning that.

[Charlie Kirk]

Kenpaxton.com, attorney General Paxton, thanks so much.

[Ken Paxton]

Thank you. Have a great day.

[Charlie Kirk]

I want to hear from you, the audience. Email me freedomarliekirk.com do you support this? Do you support Attorney General Paxton primaring John Cornyn? So far, the emails are overwhelmingly positive. So we want to hear from you guys. Email us freedom. Charliekirk.com I can tell you there are multiple, multiple US senators that are in need of primary and a little bit of chin music, a little bit of, a little bit of a warning shot is necessary to make sure the uniparty is put on defense. Private student loan debt in America totals about $300 billion. Why? Refi is the sponsor of our wildly successful cultural phenomenon Campus Tour. Private student loan debt. So many Americans feel stuck and helpless and they've even lost hope. Why Refi gives you a light at the end of the tunnel. Why Refi refinances distressed and defaulted private student loans which are technically different than federal student loans. It may not be available in all 50 states. Why REFI offers a 3 minute rate check without any credit impact. You can even skip a payment every six months up to 12 times without penalty. You don't have to ignore that mountain of student loan statements on your kitchen table anymore. Just call 888 yrefi34 or or log on to yrefi.com that is yre f y.com yrefi.com so take a look at it right now. Y refi. Great supporters of this program. Go to yrefi.com joining us now is Mark Krikorian, executive director for the center for Immigration Studies and columnist for Compact magazine. Mark, I want to just first start, can you explain to our audience how profound the changes that we've seen at the southern border in just the last couple months under President Trump's leadership? What have we seen? What are the numbers show? And compare that to Joe Biden.

[Mark Krikorian]

What we've seen is a 90 plus percent drop in the number of people coming across. And you know, the Biden administration kept saying this is seasonal, this is because of climate change, this is because of poverty, blah, blah, blah. There's nothing we can do about it until Congress gives us new tools, what have you. Well, we didn't need new legislation. We didn't need new tools. We just needed a new president. And the numbers have not just gone down, you know, right at the beginning, but we're in April now and the numbers are the lowest ever recorded. I mean, I talked to some border patrol people and there are days, there are stretches on the border where there are whole days where literally not a single person tries even in the middle of the night with smugglers to cross. So this is a complete 180 degree turn from what we saw under Biden. It shows that the border can be controlled. Doesn't mean everything's fixed because you've still got all kinds of illegal aliens that Biden let in. You've got visa overstayers. That's going to be the main source of new illegal immigration in the future. But at the border, you know, they've shut it down. And the important point is that they need to keep it up so it doesn't creep back up again because the smugglers are always looking for another way to come in. So, you know, eternal vigilance is the price of border security. But so far it's a sea change.

[Charlie Kirk]

So you mentioned something, I think that's important. These are all approximations. I asked expert after expert, how many people did come across the southern border when Joe Biden was president.

[Mark Krikorian]

Our estimate, and this is, you know, some people say it's too low, but I think you're getting something like 10 million people, most of whom the administration consciously let into the country, plus another couple million who were so called gotaways. In other words, they got past the border patrol because there were whole stretches of the border that nobody was able to patrol because the agents were there, you know, on diaper duty with all the illegal immigrants Biden invited in, who came and turned themselves in. So I think, you know, 10 million is not a low ball number, but it's also not exaggerated. On the other hand, you know, isn't that enough? I mean, how many millions does Democratic administration have to illegally let into the country before we decide we have to do something about it?

[Charlie Kirk]

So one of the problems that I think is going to arise is the left suddenly caring about constitutional rights and due process. An objection that I've been receiving on college campuses is, Charlie, you're not allowed to deport any individual unless they get a full court hearing. They get months and months of attorneys briefing them, is that correct? Does every person that has waltzed into this country, all 10 million of them, do they get attorney representation? Do they get nine month waiting periods? If so, we would not. We would deport a couple thousand people at that rate. What does the law say?

[Mark Krikorian]

The law says you can make an asylum claim and everybody gets to say that when they're captured or when they're in deportation proceedings to say, no, don't deport me because I'm claiming asylum. And ultimately, that is the core of the, the problem we're in because Congress created something called expedited removal, which means obviously to expedite deportation of people so you don't end up going into the court system. The thing is, if you say asylum or I fear return, or I've been persecuted, what have you, then you get taken out of that and put into the pipeline that you know is now 3 plus million, almost 4 million backlog in the immigration courts. That has to be fixed. There are things the administration can do to limit that. But ultimately this is something Congress has to fix. Asylum law is a relic of the Cold War and it needs to be fundamentally changed. I've written about this. The Heritage foundation just had a report last week laying out some of the ways to, you know, restrict asylum and therefore make it easier to remove people, to eliminate asylum as a gimmick, to do just what you're saying, you know, tie up the courts and stay here for years at a time. But, and like I said, the administration can do some things. Ultimately, Congress needs to revisit asylum. And the first step is the president can take. And what he needs to do is withdraw from the UN Refugee treaty, which is where all of this asylum rigmarole comes from originally.

[Charlie Kirk]

So I have several questions on that. Just to be clear though, do we have to give every single illegal alien a court date? Then we are not allowed to just pick them up and expel them from our country.

[Mark Krikorian]

If they say that, you know, they fear persecution or want asylum, then yes. Yeah, absolutely. Now they don't. Even, even if they say that, they don't automatically go to court. There is a screening interview, what's called a credible fear interview. The problem is the standard is so low, even in the statute, that basically it's just screening out people who say that Mickey Mouse is talking to them through their dental work, rather than actually a hard standard where you just flush out the people who are not likely to get asylum. So the answer is, you know, not necessarily. Not everybody has to get a court date. But you can game the system. And the system is, is gameable enough that if you're smart and if you have a smuggler who gives you the right instructions, you can in fact gum up the system successfully if you want to.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. If you say the magic words, say open sesame or hocus pocus, you're allowed to stay in the country. Mark, I don't want to zero in on this too much, but what you are painting is a rather urgent and dare I say, somewhat depressing picture that we're not going to be able to get mass deportations unless Congress fixes the asylum statute. All it's gonna take is for millions of these people just to say the magic words and they're gonna gum up the works of the judiciary and throw sand in the gears and we won't get mass deportations. Is that the case?

[Mark Krikorian]

There's a real danger of that, I'm afraid. And that's the goal of the anti borders people, both on the left and the libertarians, is to have a kind of one way border where you can come in but we can't get you out. The one aspect that gives me a little more hope is that and the way you can increase numbers is if the administration steps up worksite enforcement More because those people are likely, you know, they're not likely to be criminal. Some of them will be, but most of them are just working stiffs. And they're also not going to have credible asylum claims. Probably it depends. Some of them, you know, some ACLU lawyer may come up with something, but you can actually get higher numbers of deportations when you start doing work site enforcement. And they have started, but they need to step it up. What they've been focusing on at first, and correctly so, is criminals. But most illegal immigrants aren't, you know, violent criminals. They're just reg. I mean, they've broken a law, but they're just working stiffs. And if we're gonna enforce the law, we've gotta enforce work site enforcement in a big way if you're gonna get higher numbers than we're seeing now.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's like the talking points all went out. I've done five campus events. @ every single one a kid comes up saying, well Charlie, every single one of these illegals needs due process and they need a multi year waiting period. And I thought to myself, I wanna know what the law actually says. We're not gonna deport anybody under this at all. I mean, the left has figured out how to gamify and entrenched the entire judiciary. And of course there is no scrutiny on their way in, but there's scrutiny on the way out. I hope everyone understands how insane this is. No scrutiny on the way in, but there's scrutiny on the way out. That is the current configuration. Joe Biden's parting gift to us is. Oh yeah, I know, you got 10 million new people, good luck getting them out. We gotta fix this, everybody. Congress has to act, they gotta act quickly. I don't know if it can go in a reconciliation bill or if it takes 60 votes, but the key really is self deportation, which Mitt Romney was made fun of back in 2012, but we have, we have to emphasize that. Gentlemen, let's get real for a second. Are you frustrated with today's woke dating scene? The apps, the games, the endless swiping. It's a waste of time. Finding a woman who shares your values, faith, family and patriotism feels nearly impossible. But it doesn't have to be. Selective search, America's leading matchmaking firm, is changing the game. They connect strong, successful men like you. Men who love God, love America and want a family with incredible women who share your values. These are intelligent, faith driven women who put family first and still believe in traditional values. Imagine that if you're single, 35 to 40 years old Conservative man in Southern California. Listen up. Selective Search has an exclusive network of women ready for the real thing. Here's the best part. Their candidate program is 100% free and confidential. So my closest friends have used Selective Search and let me tell you, they're meeting incredible women. This is your chance. This is not an app. It's your answer. The perfect conservative woman is out there waiting for you. Visit selectivesearch.com california today. Let the professionals introduce you to women already looking for someone like you in Southern California. Don't wait for the perfect moment. Take action now. Go to selectivesearch.com California and start building the future you deserve. Email us freedomarliekirk.com Mark Kakorian does great work from the center for Immigration Studies. Mark, how can we intensify self deportations? Can we up the pressure on employers so illegals don't get jobs? You mentioned that a little bit. Or clamp down on illegals getting benefits. It seems as if and the New York Times has an article on this, the self deporters. Our immigration correspondent has found a surprising trend. It seems as if this has to this can only happen with an acceleration of people self deporting. What is your comments or thoughts on this? Mark?

[Mark Krikorian]

Yeah, absolutely. The administration is doing some stuff in that regard. I mean the IRS is now providing information to ICE and they're making clear, everybody knows that in fact the acting head of the IRS quit because of that, which is, you know, good riddance. The DHS has now reinstituted something that was in the law but the Biden people undid, which is if you've been ordered deported and just are still here, haven't left and there's 1.4 million people like that, you now have almost thousand dollar a day fine and they can seize your home and your property, you know, in lieu of the fine. So the administration's doing some of this. The big step, the next big step as you suggested is making it as hard as possible to get a job if you're illegally here. And that requires worksite enforcement. They've got to step it up. They've got to go after employers where they have evidence that can stand up in court to make it clear to employers they need to, they need to avoid hiring illegal immigrants. You got to make it as hard as possible to beat here illegally. That's what spurs self deportation. The administration is doing some smart steps in that direction. They need to step up especially worksite enforcement to make that work better.

[Charlie Kirk]

Here's the other really important and Good thing the border is sealed. And so we're not adding to the problem. We just have to deal with the incumbent. I don't want to say occupying force, but the incumbent entrenched problem here domestically, where, where else can we choke point this? What other NGOs can we doge or be defunding? And how do we crush sanctuary cities once and for all?

[Mark Krikorian]

Well, the first point is, yes, the border is the regular, the land border is mostly sealed. That's, you know, that's, that's done. But there's lots of people coming in on visas legally and then just not leaving. So the illegal population isn't just, in other words, it's not just a matter of trying to reduce people, get people here to leave. It is still going to be growing. And so that's a problem that DHS to deal with. As far as other choke points, you know, the driver's licenses, we've got to get this real ID deadline passed so that illegal immigrants can't get regular driver's licenses. Only in certain states can they get basically illegal alien driver's license is what amounts. Sanctuary cities is hard enough to crack because the 10th Amendment, according to Supreme Court says the feds can't cut off money for purposes that aren't related to that grant money. In other words, you can't say you're a sanctuary city, so no more highway funds or education funds for you. All they can do is cut off Justice Department grants and they're trying to do that. Most of these big cities couldn't care less. They're like, keep the money. We're going to keep protecting illegal immigrant criminals. So sanctuary cities are a tough nut to crack. I'm not really sure without Congress acting, the administration can really reign them in and end this outrageous nullification really of federal law that sanctuary cities represent.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's really well said. Mark, tell the audience about the work you guys do at the center for Immigration Studies and the top projects you're working on.

[Mark Krikorian]

We're a think tank in DC. CIS.org we're the only think tank on this. There's a couple of other good organizations on, you know, low immigration and controlling the borders, but they're more citizen action, advocacy groups. We're the only research group on this and we've got all kinds of stuff coming. We have a report coming out probably next week on how immigration is not a solution to the birth rate issue. Is that if you're going to have, you know, if you're going to get birth rates to come back up, immigration is not a solution. In fact, it probably hurts it. And to see you know everything we do, you can sign up for our email. We don't bother you too much. And if you have a taste for snark and sarcasm, I'm on Twitter myself with my account, Mark S, as in Stephen. Mark S. Krikorian.

[Charlie Kirk]

Thank you, Mark.

[Mark Krikorian]

Thanks.

[Charlie Kirk]

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[Eric Metaxas]

You know what? I'm not Charlie Kirk. I'll just keep it real simple and emotional. How much do I love this president? I love this president. He has just been so extraordinary. He gets it. And you know, Charlie, what's at the heart of this? And it's not like I was thinking to link to Bonhoeffer, but of course it is. This is a man of courage. This president stands up to bullies. The Chinese have gotten away with literally murder and with cheating and lying. And on some level, Trump respects it. It's like, okay, if you can get away with it, why not take advantage? But guess what? We're not going to let you. Sorry, we can't let you get away with it anymore. He is brilliant. President Xi must understand this. Kevin O'Leary, Mr. Wonderful. Yesterday was saying that we should slap 400% tariffs on China and Then she would be on a plane to D.C. to make a deal. Yesterday. It is about time we confronted the bully in the schoolyard. And it is only President Trump who has the courage to do it. We need men and women of courage, and this president is a gift from God, not just to this nation, but. But to the world. I think many around the world are just applauding him, and it's exciting. Praise God.

[Charlie Kirk]

Amen. Speaking of men of courage, Eric, I know you have a passion project that you want to talk about with our audience, which is very important, which is Bonhoeffer. Dietrich Bonhoeffer is one of the most important men to live in the 20th century. Most Americans do not know enough about him. Tell us about your incredible movie. We could play the trailer, but tell us about it.

[Eric Metaxas]

It's. It's. No, I'll tell you, Charlie, the real headline here. First of all, Today, literally today, April 9, is the 80th anniversary today of the death of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, one of the greatest heroes of the 20th century. He stood against the bullies and the monsters and the evil figures of his time fearlessly in the way that President Trump and others are standing up today. Of course, Bonhoeffer, way ahead of everybody. Why? Because he did it to the point of death. He was killed by the Nazis. So he's the ultimate model of courage. And we're living in a time right now where you have a lot of Christians out there, sort of Christians who don't understand that if you do not live with heroic courage in the face of evil, if you don't stand up to bullies, if you don't say the thing that everybody's afraid to say, you're a coward and you're not serving God. You can't fake it and say, well, I have faith if you're not behaving like you have faith. So Bonhoeffer is the ultimate hero. But the reason I wanted to come on your show today, Charlie, is because a lot of folks in the MAGA movement don't know this. The Bonhoeffer film that came out in November, an amazing film not officially tied to my book, but it is an amazing film about this amazing hero killed today. Eighty years ago, that film was targeted by the left, mostly by the pro Hamas lunatic left, and they did everything they could to crush the film in the box office, and they were pretty successful. It's insane. I don't want to give you the details, but I was stunned because this is a film made by people that are not pro Trump people. They just said we want to make a great film about Bonhoeffer. They made a great film partnering with, you know, Hollywood royalty to make a great film about this hero. And the radical left did everything they could, pulled out all the stops to destroy the film. So what I'm saying, folks, if you believe in standing up for Israel, I'm not saying you have to agree with everything Netanyahu does, but if you believe in standing up for the Jews, this guy is the ultimate hero. And the left, which we now know is insane, in case you haven't covered that subject, they did everything they could to crush the film. So the film is now on Amazon prime, it's on Apple tv. It's. You can find it almost everywhere. But it's a genuinely great film. And it kind of takes my breath away, Charlie, that the left is so crazy that they would try to harm a film like this about a man who gave his life for the Jews of Europe because of his Christian faith. That's where we are. But that's what they did.

[Charlie Kirk]

Why do you think, Eric, out of all of the 20th century, quote, unquote, heroes that we teach our kids, Bonhoeffer is de emphasized in academia. It is de emphasized in our media. Why is Bonhoeffer not as much of a household name as some of the other great titans and heroes of Western civilization? What do you attribute that to?

[Eric Metaxas]

Well, there are a couple of reasons. The first one, and this is, of course, what attracted me to his story, because my mother grew up in Nazi Germany. So when I heard about the story of a pastor who, because of his faith in Jesus, spoke up for the Jews, a pastor and a theologian who, because of his Christian faith, spoke out against Adolf Hitler, I thought, whoa, courage. Amazing courage. But that is kind of why most people don't know about Bonhoeffer, because he was explicitly Christian. And in fact, people on the left who do praise him, they kind of make it sound like, well, he was sort of an agnostic at the end of his life. Complete baloney. And the reason the left hates me is because in my biography on him, I make it clear that his Christian faith was deepened, if anything, at the end of his life. Just the opposite. They kind of act like he slid into this, like, ethical humanism. I was watching Charlie Rose like, I don't know, 15 years ago, and Christopher Hitchens was debating, and somebody said, well, what about Bonhoeffer's faith? And he goes, oh, Bonhoeffer's not a Christian. He was a humanist. Complete lie. So the left has tried to make him out to Be sort of a Christian, not a Christian. And his Christianity makes them uncomfortable. So in my book, of course, his Christianity is front and center, not because it's my book, but because that's who Bonhoeffer was. So that's one of the reasons that his heroism makes some people uncomfortable. But right now, the reason the left tried to crush the film is because they no longer feel comfortable even standing up for Jews. They think, well, that's kind of too close to, you know, worshiping Netanyahu or standing up for Israel. We stand with the Palestinians. We're in an insane world. And I. And I. And I can't overstate it, Charlie. They worked overtime to crush this film in November. I mean, it was really shocking to me that a film that your average liberal would love the film. This is not some maga version of Bonhoeffer's life. It's a film for everybody. They just pulled out all the stops to destroy it. And that's how sick they are. I mean, they are sawing off the limb that they're sitting on. And we see them doing that in on other issues, just happy to destroy the country, to destroy the economy, because they hate Trump, and they have attacked me, and they even attacked the film as somehow being a dog whistle for Christian nationalism and political violence, which is so insane, I can't even believe I'm saying it. So the left worked hard to crush the film, which is why I want to get the word out to patriots in America. This is a great film. Everybody should see it. And literally Today is the 80th anniversary of. Of this great man's death. So obviously it's available. I think I mentioned Amazon Prime, Apple tv. It's out there. But he is such a hero. And, you know, Charlie, you and I were talking several years ago, and you said, you know, through tpusa Faith, you want to raise up an army of Bonhoeffers, real Christians, who are not just talking about faith, but who are living out their faith. He, to me, is the ultimate model of that. He's a man of action. He puts his faith in action. And whenever I talk about Bonhoeffer, it's about putting your faith in action. Not just talking, but doing the kind of stuff that you do and I try to do. Talking truth to people, waking them up. That's what real faith looks like. And I can hardly think of anybody who embodies it more than Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

[Charlie Kirk]

Absolutely. So, really quick, Eric, how do people find this film? Cause there's a lot of Bonhoeffer content out There just crisply URL.

[Eric Metaxas]

And there's a lot of bad. Yeah, there's a lot of bad stuff out there. The film that just came out in November, it's a brand new film. It's called Bonhoeffer. I think it's called Pastor Spy, Assassin, whatever. I don't. I never remember the subtitle, but it just came out a couple of months ago. It's brand new. It is absolutely awesome. Anybody who sees it, they rave about it. They weep at the end. It's powerful, it's beautiful. And obviously my book I would recommend as the definitive book on Bonhoeffer, because there's a lot of bad stuff on Bonhoeffer, a lot of kind of liberal, weird stuff that has come out. So that's one of the reasons they hate me, is because I told the truth about him in his own words. But I'm proud to have done so.

[Charlie Kirk]

As we look at the threat of totalitarianism across the west, we have a little bit of a reprieve right now. What is your message to the pastor or the church leader that refuses to stand for the civilizational struggle that we are in? One minute remaining, Eric.

[Eric Metaxas]

That's exactly what it is, Charlie. We're in the proverbial Bonhoeffer moment. I mean, when I saw the Tyranny Under Biden, all of this kind of stuff, I thought, this is why God led me to write this book on Dietrich Bonhoeffer. This is a man who understood he had a profound duty before God to get political, to stand up against political satanic bullies who hate freedom, who hate human beings, who hate the Jews, who hate Christians. If you don't live heroically like Bonhoeffer, you are not being the kind of Christian God called you to be. And that's why the movie is important. That's why the story of Bonhoeffer is important. And on this 80th anniversary, literally today, everybody needs to know about him and needs to know that the left tried to destroy this film. So if you can see it, check it out. It is genuinely a great film. Believe me, you'll thank me. It's an amazing film.

[Charlie Kirk]

Very good, Eric. God bless you, my friend. Talk to you soon. Thank you.

[Eric Metaxas]

Thank you.

[Charlie Kirk]

Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us. As always, freedomarliekirk.com thanks so much for listening and God bless.

[Eric Metaxas]

For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.