B (2:51)

Charlie, it's always good to be with you. And frankly, if I can get that kind of a flattering introduction, you can have me anytime.

A (2:58)

Well, thank you. And so can you just kick us off by giving us your analysis of what happened a couple weeks ago on Election Day. I'm under the impression and the opinion, as is many other people, that this was a red wave that was basically interrupted by four cities that decided to stop counting. And with some immense irregularities, Republicans and President Trump did incredibly well. How do you see things?

B (3:29)

Well, look, I think if you separate the Trump situation, which was so heavily motivated by absolute hatred by the news media, the Internet companies, et cetera, and you look at the rest of the election, it was a substantial Republican victory. I think people like Charlie Cook, who study elections are shocked by how well Kevin McCarthy and the House Republicans have done. The Republicans gained seats in the state House and state Senate. They picked up a governorship in the U.S. senate in a very difficult environment. In terms of who was up, we had an amazing number of victories, including Olympia Snow, I mean, Susan Collins, who in Maine ran, I think, 15 points ahead of Trump to get reelected. And the truth is, other than the two Georgia Senate seats, we were on the way to a very good night. We're already guaranteed 50. And if we win the two, either one or the two Georgia seats will be a majority and McConnell will still be in charge of the Senate. Pelosi has what may be the narrowest margin since 1919, and she's going to it's going to be almost impossible for her to effectively hold the House together in the Democrats. I'm writing a newsletter at Gingrich360, pointing out that in 92, Bill Clinton won. And in 94, we elected the first House majority in 40 years, picking up 53 seats. In 2008, Obama won. And in 2010, John Boehner led a campaign called where are the Jobs? He picked up 63 seats, 10 more than I did. And my question for the House Democrats is going to be, so how many seats do you think you'll lose in 2022? Will it be a Gingrich size wave or a Boehner sized way? But in any case, it's extraordinarily likely that this is the last term for the Democratic majority, for the near future. Then you get to the presidential campaign. By the way, the other good news was that on referendums, voters around the country, even in California, were turning down left wing ideas. So every time you look below the presidency, the we were doing fine. And it raises real questions about the presidential results because it's a little hard to imagine us picking up House seats, state legislative seats, governorships, and somehow having Biden run that far ahead of his ticket, particularly given Biden's campaign. I think that it is. First of all, I stipulate the Democrats in the near future are always going to have a majority of the popular vote because we don't really compete in New York, Illinois and California. So they come out of those states with huge margins. But everywhere else, we're very competitive. And I think that it's in my mind, and we're in the middle of the count right now in Georgia, but in my mind, Georgia, Nevada, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan are all contested states. And I think it's very hard for me to believe that any of them is legal. Nevada, the state legislature and the governor, who are Democrats, they just basically rewrote the election law in the spring to make it legal to do everything illegal, and you can't contest it. There are former Attorney General Adam Laxall says there are 600,000 votes that no Republican has ever seen and that there's blocked off. So in effect, you have a legally corrupt state in which the Democrats have passed laws that are just remarkably corrupt. In Georgia, for reasons that are beyond my comprehension, the Republican Secretary of State agreed to a negotiated agreement with Stacey Abrams. You can't challenge the absentee votes. So there were a million 260,000 absentee ballots in 2018, with a much smaller number, 3.5% were thrown out. This year it was 0.3. So they want us to believe that there were 10 times as many ballots thrown out on a smaller vote. You would think the opposite would be true if you had a giant vote. There are probably more, not fewer. And technically, under the agreement that the Secretary of state signed, they can't go out and check any addresses. I mean, the whole thing is so crazy that I've called on the state legislature to take it over because it was a change of state law without the approval of the state legislature. And if they go back and count those ballots, my guess is it's worth 40,000 votes. Just that one thing. So anyhow, that's a sweeping overview of kind of where we are.

A (8:40)

It's very well put. I have a question about Georgia. So this was a Republican secretary of state who basically surrendered to the non elected. Stacey Abrams just gave her whatever she wanted. Who was funded by, you know, tech billionaires and Hollywood liberals who were putting tons of money behind Stacey Abrams. Why would a republican secretary of state do this in Georgia? I'm fascinated with Georgia. You know the state better than basically anyone. How's that possible?

B (9:09)

Well, let me say first of all, I think Stacey, to her credit, had raised over $40 million just for the purpose of reshaping the electorate. And she had brought in a very tough Washington law firm that knew what it was doing. The secretary of state. The way I put it simple. Republicans play badminton and Democrats play pro football. Now you put a badminton team out on a field and a pro football team out on the field who's going to get run over. And so you have these nice, well meaning people who, you know, may have a good time at the country club on Sunday lunch. They don't have a clue the war they're in. On the other side you have people like Stacy who as a competitor, you have to respect. She's ruthless, she's tough, she's determined, and she took these guys. Both the governor and the secretary of state got taken to the cleaners. And I think the only hope we have in Georgia is for the legislature to stand up as under the constitution, it very specifically says the election of the electors is a function of the legislature, not the governor, not the secretary of state, not the courts. And so the Georgia legislature, which is Republican, could intervene, demand a recount, and then let the Democrats sue to block us from checking on phony ballots. And let's let the whole country see how determined they are to protect the right of people who are illegal to vote.

A (10:38)

It's the worst possible combination because you had more absentee ballots than ever before and a lower rate of rejection. So it was exponentially worse than it was.

B (10:49)

One of the things I'm checking on now, so I can't say this with certainty, but in the spring and summer, the secretary of state said there were at least 1,000 people who double voted. That is, they got an absentee ballot, voted it and showed up at the polls. And I've not seen any reference to double voting because of course, if you can't check the absentee ballot, then how do you know whether or not the person double voted? And so, but there were a thousand this summer in the, in the primaries. So I think again, every time you turn around now, they did find a substantial number of votes in Floyd county that had not even been reported, which is a very, very Republican county, probably nets 800 or more for Trump and shrinking Biden majority. But you see the same by the way, it's worse in Philadelphia. Philadelphia may be the most corrupt political city in the United States. And it's worse in Nevada where they literally have outlawed any legality. It's an amazing case. I may write a book about this because some of now that we're digging into it, some of these stories are so unbelievably abusive of common sense and decency that they need the country needs to realize how badly we need election reform.

A (12:13)

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B (14:56)

Well, look, I think, and I just wrote a newsletter about this the other day, if you really believe, as our Declaration of Independence says, that you've been endowed by your creator with certain unalienable rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, all of that's based on the rule of law. And Lincoln in particular was extraordinarily eloquent throughout the Civil War in describing the importance of the rule of law. So the rule of law starts with your sacred right to vote, because you're picking the people to whom you're going to loan power. And if your vote is canceled by an illegal vote, or if your vote is drowned by 50 illegal votes, we just took away your most fundamental safeguard as an American. So my view. Forget Trump. My view is that this election is so clearly, for the first time, you've had the intensity of a presidential spotlight on corruption, which we used to tolerate, which one, which got much bigger, because I believe the left knew they couldn't beat Trump in a fair fight. And they were so desperate to beat him, they hated him so deeply, that I think they spent several years laying the framework for just plain breaking the law. So I think whatever you think about Trump, as Americans, we have an obligation to learn what happened. And we have an obligation, I think, to change the laws. I mean, Georgia is going to have to go back in and fundamentally rewrite the law. And the principles ought to be simple. Every person gets to cast a legal ballot. We get to know that you did it. We get to know that you are legal. It gets to be counted legally. Nobody who's illegal of any kind including dead people should be allowed to vote and you shouldn't have ballot harvesting. When I look at, for example, three times as many 90 year olds voted in Wisconsin as two years ago, more than ever in history. And I start thinking about unions like the Service Employees International Union, which have unionized a large number of nursing homes. And so you have a union worker come by to pick up a ballot for a senior citizen. Well, guess what advice they're going to get when they vote, or if they're frankly not capable of knowing what's going on, but they sign their name, then the union member is going to vote for them. And I think that is just as illegal as anything else. So I think we're at a real crossroads in reclaiming our rights as Americans and making sure that government isn't literally stolen from us.

A (17:44)

And in Pennsylvania, they had a 1,774% voter registration increase for people over 90 years old in the midst of a pandemic. So you have a raging pandemic and out of nowhere people, 90 plus years old decide to go register to vote at a rate that is so dramatic, it's a 1,774% increase. Something there does not add up. And it's something where the New York Times actually wrote an article back in 2012, they call it Granny Farming, where you intercept the ballots to and from, you go to. Unfortunately, there's dementia units. There are people that are not all there cognitively. And you have people that prey on them and are able to get the vote that they desire. The issue that I find, Mr. Speaker, is that we as Republicans and conservatives, not President Trump, but most people kind of in the bureaucracy of the Republican Party, they refuse to contest on these election issues because it wasn't, it wasn't something that they thought they had to get into and they found it to be too messy. It's just like we'll just discuss ideas and then we'll win. But the Democrats are now into the mechanics of politics. They always have been. And now you're starting to see that that's actually how elections are being decided. Mr. Speaker, I want to ask you about the future of the Republican Party. We don't know how this election will end up being remedied. Hopefully the Supreme Court will intercede. But I think that President Trump has changed the Republican Party for the better, especially to now become a working person's party. He won more non white voters than any Republican since 1960. He won counties in West Texas near El Paso that Republicans haven't won in nearly 100 years. How do you think that President Trump has positively impacted the future of the Republican Party?

B (19:35)

Well, I think, first of all, his focus on America and the idea that our policies should be based around American interests, I think has been very healthy and just made a lot of sense to lots of people. Second, I think his understanding that the deep state and the giant bureaucracies are inevitably in conflict with the rights of individuals has been very well received. Third, I think his understanding that if you cut taxes, cut regulations and encourage the business climate and small businesses, you create huge numbers of jobs. We're literally seeing it right now. There's a momentum which will sadly, I think, be broken by Biden if he wins. But Trump, one of the reasons he's doing better with African Americans and Latinos is simple. They had better jobs, they had more jobs and they had rising incomes. And they looked around, they said, huh, this is actually working. So I think that in that sense, there will probably be a three way from making this up. But I think it may be right. There'll probably be a three way fight in the Republican Party. There will be the old establishment country club think tank party. This is where the Never Trumpers came from. There will be a group in the middle that are sort of wishy washy, not quite sure what they're doing, trying to avoid anybody yelling at them. And then there will be probably 60 or 65% of the country of the party, which will be very Trump like, they'll be very committed to, you know, for example, we're going to go into a cycle of shutdowns again because Biden's victory will be interpreted. I just saw Fauci saying we might have to give up Christmas. You know, I'm frankly enraged that in some states a casino is essential, but a church is not. And I think you're likely to see a growing anti government sentiment as we watch these Democratic governors act like idiots and favor their particular ideology. And if Biden brings that same spirit to the whole country, I think by March or April, you'll have a get government out of my life winning of the Republican Party, which is really the heart of Trumpism. I always have told people, Trump's not essentially a conservative. Trump's essentially an anti liberal. He says that the effect of anti liberalism is to strengthen conservatism. He didn't sit around and read Bill Buckley and read National Review. He just got up and said that stuff's stupid. And everybody who's a conservative applauded him. And it didn't occur to Them that, you know, he hadn't done all the right reading, which is why you get these never Trumpers who are offended because they spent a lifetime reading all that stuff and they knew that they knew and he didn't know. But he was effective and they weren't effective and drove him crazy.

A (22:29)

I always loved your framing that you presented of him being as the most successful anti leftist figure in modern political history and that that actually helped Republicans down ballot all across the country and in Senate races, because in response to President Trump, the left did not try to normalize their positions or try to become more centrist. They just tried to outwoke each other where they decided to talk more about transgender bathrooms and BLM incorporated and defunding the police. And in complete opposition to what a lot of people thought would happen in the House of Representatives. Kevin McCarthy is on pace to probably be speaker of the house in 2022. And a lot of that is thanks to President Trump and the way that he actually framed the argument. What is common sense? What are issues that we care about? And of course, the left and the Democrats decided to basically get rid of all the Blue Dogs and embrace aoc, Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar and many of those others. So I love your framing of the three types of the Republican Party, the country club Republicans and the Chamber of Commerce types, the people in the middle and then the kind of more movement conservatives. And I think President Trump has really presented and laid the foundation for movement conservatives now to really run the party. I've always loved, Mr. Speaker, your pieces where you talk about solutions and things that we should run for and actually not just run against things for Republicans that are now going to be in leadership in the House minority or also the Senate majority. What should we concretely talk about on a policy side, on health care, on foreign policy, so that we can actually do what you did in the 1990s and build coalitions that actually impact people's lives.

B (24:18)

A couple easy first ones we should be for transparency in health care so you can know the price and the quality of anything you're paying for. The estimate by Art Laffer, the economist, was the transparency would probably take 40% of the cost of health care because you'd have a competitive market and you know, what's worth buying and what's not. So that's an example of where we ought to go. I think in education, we ought to be on the side of the students and against the teachers union. I mean, this insanity In Fairfax County, Virginia, they're spending $3 billion for a school system that isn't teaching. Now, why would you spend the money? I mean, they don't want to teach. Fine, they can go on vacation, but why should we pay for it? And I think all over the country, people begin to realize that the teachers unions are about the union. They're not about the students. They're not even about normal teachers. There's power centers that are desperate to survive. We're going to, you know, the woke wing of the Democratic Party won't be able to help itself. I just noticed that Biden has appointed as part of the treasury transition team somebody who's a passionate advocate for reparations for African Americans. Now, reparations are technically unmanageable. You can't possibly define how you would do it. Elizabeth Warren's brief life as a Native American ought to remind everyone what this kind of stuff goes to. But they just, they're not going to be able to help themselves. They're going to get into issue after issue that is, you know, whether, whether it's the transgender issue or it's allowing males who have become female to compete in sports, wiping out the women who are still women who are competing. And there'll be a hundred different cultural issues like this. And my guess is that they will dive right back in, rejoin the World Health Organization, rejoin the Paris agreement, et cetera, and deal with China the way China should be dealt with, given how much money that they've given to Biden, Hunter and the Hunter family. So it's going to be very interesting to watch them come to grips with reality. And the average American is going to like the Trump formulas our policies ought to be. For example, Trump campaigned to get us out of the Middle East. He worked very hard to be very effective with minimum forces and destroyed isis, killed the leading Iranian general at no cost to the United States, is now pulling forces out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Be interesting to see whether Biden turns it around and reinserts for forces and how the country feel. And that'll split the Democratic Party. So it's going to be a fascinating period. It's also going to be interesting. I've noticed that a number of the anti Trump people, Republicans, are now writing and making as much noise as they can. It'll be interesting to watch when they realize they have no natural home. They're not ideal, you know, they're not ideologically acceptable to the left and they're no longer personally acceptable to the right. And I think that that will be a very interesting reckoning over the next three or four years

A (27:34)

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B (30:14)

Well, I think you're exactly right. And it's one of the reasons Trump was so controversial, because Trump, in effect, repudiated a large part of what had been the Republican establishment. And I think, I mean, it was a position I had frankly migrated to over a 20 year period because we did a lot of things correct in World War II and in the Cold War, but that era was gone, and you had to ask yourself, why were we still doing things that might have made sense in 1989? I also think that it's increasingly obvious the totalitarian left can't win the argument. So they have to eliminate the arguer because they literally can't win the arguments. And so their mission in life is to go out and do everything they can to crush the person who has an alternative viewpoint. And that allows us, I think, to become the party of free speech, as you pointed out, become the party that seeks the truth. You know, I'm writing a Thanksgiving newsletter for next week, and it's kind of interesting to imagine how a left winger would write the same newsletter, because of course, you can't talk about Thanksgiving and the Mayflower and all that. You have to talk about Jamestown in 1619. And. And I think the average American just thinks that's nuts. So we're the party that believes you ought to stand for the national anthem and salute the flag. They're the party that believes you ought to kneel, ignore the national anthem and probably burn the flag. And I think that gap, psychologically is going to get bigger.

A (31:53)

No, that's exactly right. And the Democrats, just based on all indications we have post election, are not all of a sudden dismissing their kind of woke masters. They're re embracing them. They're doubling and tripling down on all of the worst kind of most radical influences in their party. You see this with the Trump Accountability Project, where they're now listing every single donor and person that worked in the Trump White House or supported President Trump so that they can never get a job again, that they can be publicly named and shamed. So we are seeing so many different examples of this. Mr. Speaker, I want to ask you about an issue that impacts actually this conversation. Right now, many people be watching this conversation on YouTube. They'll be listening to it on podcasting. The big tech companies are more powerful than any other companies we've ever seen in the history of the planet. They know everything about us. They have an increasingly totalitarian edge to them. How should we as free market conservatives approach these big tech companies? What is the right approach politically and also from a policy perspective?

B (33:01)

Well, first of all, remember all these people who yell free enterprise. The big tech companies exist because section 230 of the total Communications act protects them from being sued. So the first thing we ought to do is just take away that protection so that the New York Post, the oldest newspaper in America and the fourth largest, gets knocked out by Twitter. They could sue Twitter for economic damages. That will immediately sober them up. Second, I think they have to, in the end, become common carriers. That is, you know, if AT&T had asserted it had the right to listen to your phone calls and to cut off the ones it didn't like, we'd all go crazy. But we have tolerated these Internet systems, developing that kind of internal attitude. And when you learn, for example, that Facebook has Chinese experts on censorship working in Seattle to help them develop their algorithms, I think it's very sobering. So I think you, you know, conservatism has always involved great. This has been true all the way back to Jefferson. And Washington has always involved great skepticism about concentrations of power, because inevitably, as Adam Smith warned in the wealth of nations, anytime a group of businessmen get together, it's a conspiracy against the consumer. And so I don't think they can yell free enterprise and then look at all the advantages they get. And whether it's patent law advantages or tax advantages or you name it. And I think it's frankly, a lot of what Twitter did was, to a lesser extent, Facebook was so unconscionable that I'm hoping that the new Senate and the new House will hold very extensive hearings because it really was a left wing, totalitarian moment.

A (34:59)

And what happened with the Hunter Biden story was one of the creepiest and most stunning developments I have ever seen. And the that we've ever seen with a private company interfering with a federal election. And not. What was so amazing, Mr. Speaker, is that Twitter went to testify in front of Congress, and you would imagine that Jack Dorsey probably would have asked his team, hey, what questions are they gonna ask me? And probably one of his, you know, people said, well, they're probably gonna ask you about the New York Post being locked out of their Twitter account. And no one thought to say, hey, maybe we should give them their Twitter account before we go testify to Congress. Imagine how much pride that takes. Imagine the cockiness to not actually course correct or fix what you know, they're gonna ask you about, and Jack Dorsey says, you know, oh, if they delete the tweet, then they can get their Twitter account. Now, they did finally relent. After about eight days of pressure, they did finally let the New York Post back in. But these tech companies actually think they run the country.

B (36:00)

Well, look, they're not only censoring the President of the United States, which in itself is pretty amazing. There was one particular day just before the election where they censored 4 out of 6 tweets by rush Limbaugh. So you have the most popular radio talk show host in the country being censored by a group of left wingers in Silicon Valley. And I think that's really a threat to our very freedoms.

A (36:27)

Yeah. And if you can't have access to the public square, then, you know, how are you able even to interface? So in closing, Mr. Speaker, what do you think the marching orders for conservative activists should be? A lot of people have kind of pent up energy right now. They feel so frustrated that this election was stolen from them. They're not sure the best way to actually stay engaged, stay involved, and what to do. I actually think regardless of how the presidential election shakes out with Dominion voting systems and all these different things we're looking into, Republicans are in a very good position. And this election shows us that the American people, it's still a center right country. Despite everything that the power sources might tell you, we are still a center right country. What should activists do and what's kind of your advice to them?

B (37:13)

Well, I think activists should. First of all, I think activists should be noisy. I think it's very important that people recognize if you're not in the public square, if you're not fighting, if you're not doing the things that need to get done, why would you expect anybody else to know what's up? Second, they should look forward to the 2022 elections. They should be out finding candidates right now. They should take on every Democratic incumbent because as Trump proved this year, he was getting votes in places that you never expected him to get votes in. And I think as the degree to which the Democrats stand for bad government, a bad quality of life for you, I think that we're going to have an opportunity in 2022 that may be the largest we've had in modern times. And if you don't have candidates, you know, it doesn't work. So I would say you want to go out and you want to have everybody. You can organize every neighborhood of every ethnic background. And then frankly, we ought to emphasize not so much ideology but common sense. Common sense says children ought to be in school. Every piece of data we have says children ought to be in school. Common sense says you don't bankrupt small businesses. You go down a list of common sense. Common sense says they're going to be violent criminals. You better have police. So let's have a fight between a common sense party that wants your life to be better and an ideologically left wing party that who wants to dictate to you and tell you to chant my life is better even if it isn't. And I think we win that fight by a big margin.

A (38:50)

I agree. And what the think tank group doesn't realize is that most of America is actually not ideological. Most of America is actually just very pragmatic. And that's why they tend to be center right when the ideas are presented. They actually care much more about feeding their family and going to church than some think tank paper that is written about some, you know, philosopher they never heard of. So. Well, Mr. Speaker, thank you so much for joining us today. Again, I want to say Gingrich360 Newts World, we love your commentary and we hope to have you back again soon.

B (39:20)

Charlie, as always, it's great to be with you. You're a tremendous leader and you're a part of why the resurgence in 2022 and 2024 is going to be so historic.

A (39:30)

Thank you. I deeply appreciate that. God bless you. Speak to you soon. Thanks so much for listening everybody. If you want to get involved with Turning Point USA, you can go to tpusa.com tpusa.com please consider supporting us at charliekirk.com support email us your questions as always at freedom charliekirk.com freedom charliekirk.com thanks so much for listening everybody. Listen to our previous episodes about Dominion voting systems and Hammer and Scorecard. Thanks so much. God bless. Speak to you soon.