B (3:13)

Well, I think we've been heading down this road slowly for a long period of time. Many Americans didn't really notice we were heading down this road. Obviously, Dennis Prager and I and others who produced the movie sort of saw this one coming several years ago. It feels to me like it's a road we started down probably over a decade ago with firing professors who, you know, spoke up about this or censoring another person that may have spoken about that. And now we're just going down the same road. We've just picked up the pace. We're just taking as a society. What was just traveling 20 miles an hour down this road in the last 10 minutes. We put our foot down on the accelerator pedal and we're now moving at 100 miles an hour down this road.

A (4:15)

Yeah. And so the president having no access to any of these social media channels, I think is directly related to the types of people that are staffing these companies. What happens on these college campuses does not stay on these college campuses. They then go work for Facebook and Twitter and YouTube and you could disagree with the president. You could think that you he handled certain things correctly or incorrectly, but then all of a sudden he shouldn't have access to the tens of millions of people on social media. It feels as if they're almost trying to create America into a major, the whole country into a college campus.

B (4:50)

Well, you know, if you think about it, an example I use, forget about politics per se or right or left. What if everyone on college campuses or the vast majority of people on college campuses were vegan? And then, you know, the professors were vegan and some of the most of the students were vegan, or some of the students that weren't vegan converted to veganism while they were there at college, when they left the college and they went home for Thanksgiving, or when they left the college and went to their new workplace, do you think they would just leave the vegan lifestyle, I mean, do you think it's something they would just keep to themselves? How long before those people went into the break room of the new place they were employed at and said, hey, I looked at the vending machine and there was beef jerky in there. And I kind of find that problematic. And even though the people at their workplace may not have been vegan, what if they just started causing a fuss? Like, how long would it take for the guy who managed a company to go, you know what, just pull the jerky, replace it with cheese nips. Like, I don't want to deal with this. And now you have more and more like minded vegans showing up at that workplace each, each new graduating class. So of course these businesses, these entities, whatever they were, would start taking on veganism. And if you want to keep your employees happy, then you'd have to have a, you know, meat free Friday. And before you know it, one guy who brought in pot roast for leftovers, that guy would be suspended because he offended other. I mean, how else would it work?

A (6:39)

Yeah, no, that's right. And I like the analogy of vegans because they tend to be unusually evangelistic about their dietary choices. It's as if it's not good enough that they have made a decision to be vegan. It's, why aren't you also a vegan?

B (6:57)

Yeah. And what's so different about that politically?

A (7:01)

That's the point.

B (7:01)

Yes. Yeah, exactly right. That's the point. I've made this decision to go this direction politically, and you know, I support Black Lives Matter and I support global warming and I support, you know, climate change and I support systemic oppression and all this. And I'm sure as hell not gonna keep it to myself. And you're not gonna be able to eat your pot roast and smoke your cigarette.

A (7:25)

No, that's perfectly put. So I guess the question is the movie is really effective and I encourage people to check it out because it starts with your life story. And your story is it's really well told. You wanted to be a firefighter and they called you back like five years later. If I remember correctly, I saw the film about a year ago or a couple, about nine months ago, and you basically just got to work, you decided not to play the victim despite certain circumstances around you that maybe would have allowed you to play that card. And you've reached a fair amount of success. And now you look at kind of the current generation and you say, where exactly is this stemming from? And I think that in some ways you and Dennis Play different roles in the film where Dennis plays kind of more of the professor and the explainer. And you kind of actually play the hero type against the criticism of the movie. Right? Where the criticism is you need to be sheltered and play a victim your whole life. And you kind of say no, you don't just look at my life. Can you talk about that a little bit? Because I found that to be really effective and fascinating the way it was told.

B (8:33)

Well, thanks. The fireman story as depicted in the movie is when I was about 19, I was completely jobless and hapless. I lived in my dad's garage in North Hollywood, California and I barely got out of high school with very bad grades, never took the SATs and I was not college material whatsoever. The economy was bad and I found myself wandering around just looking for jobs to see if I could get out of my dad's garage. I was going to supermarkets, trying to become a bag boy, just walking on a construction site, seeing if they needed any labor. And I wandered into the North Hollywood Fire Department because I had a strong back. I played football in high school. I was pretty fearless at 19 and I thought this is something I could do. I'm strong, I like to help people. I think I like hanging out with dudes. It was kind of felt like it was an extension of all the football I played. And I think firemen be pretty sweet gig. So I just sort of naively wandered into the place. I remember I just walked there and I just sort of walked in and I was like, hey, can I put in an application? And the guy said, yeah, you can put in an application, but there's going to be a wait. And I said, like what kind of wait? You know, when you're 19, six months is a long time. And the guy said, years. And I said, okay. I said, but, but how come? He said, because you're white and we're just hiring black people or Hispanic people or women or whatever, whatever they were hiring. They're trying to get their quotas down. That was, you know, many years ago, obviously. So this stuff's been going on in Los Angeles for a while. So I put the application in and then I found myself getting a job on a construction site some months later as a, as a laborer, as a ditch digger. And I dug ditches and I bought a beat up pickup truck and a couple of tools. And next thing you know, I'd work my way up into some sort of junior carpenter role. And at some point years later, maybe trying to think of about six Years later. I hadn't been living at home for many years at that point. My dad, when I saw him, handed me this letter that, of course was addressed to his house because that's where I was living. And it was from the LA Fire Department. Said, your test date has come. And I thought, when is this? From age 19 to 25 or 26. That is chunkier, big delta there. And I was like, what? And I said, your test date is this Saturday at Hollywood High to take the written test. I was like, okay. I was a carpenter at that point. Probably gave up my dreams about being a fireman many years ago. But I'd been waiting for so long that I just thought, now I'll just go down to Hollywood High on Saturday and take the test. And I was waiting in line, and I was so dumbfounded by the fact that I'd put my application in and six years later they processed it, that I kept asking everyone around me, when did you put in your application? There was a young woman of color behind me, very diminutive. And I said to her, when did you put in your application? And she said, Wednesday. And I thought, oh, my God. But I never looked at myself as a victim. No one ever told me I was a victim. I was happy. No one ever told me I was a victim. I wasn't a victim. I grew up in a poor family and I was uneducated. But. And I didn't have any of the. I didn't have any the modalities in place to try to get me a scholarship or help me be a fireman or all that kind of stuff was around. But I certainly never thought of myself as a victim. I just thought, well, you're poor, you're uneducated, you're just going to have to outwork people. And that's what I did.

A (12:47)

Well, and that's a great lesson. That's why I think that whether intentionally or unintentionally, you are actually the narrative form against the criticism, which is why it makes it such an effective film. Because it's one thing to say, stop being a victim, but then you actually need to have kind of stories and heroes that are able to portray the opposite. Where Dennis in the film is much more of kind of a philosophical critique where he talks about. Basically, I've been warning against this since I've been in the Soviet Union when I was 9 years old, not 9, but since he was 18. And it's just the narratives, I think, form together really well. Look, let's talk about censorship on social media sites and what you can do about it. The left wants to silence and remove any voices they don't agree with. It's true. Twitter and Facebook were supposed to be open platforms, but I don't need their content moderators acting like the op ed section of the New York Times. So instead of letting social media sites revoke your right to free speech, how about revoking their right to your data? Now, you could just deactivate all your social media accounts, but that would be giving the left exactly what they wanted in the first place. Instead, I use Express vpn. Ever wondered how free to access sites like Facebook make all their money? Well, by tracking your searches, video history, and everything you click on and then selling on your valuable data. When you use ExpressVPN, you anonymize much of your online presence by hiding your IP address. That makes your activity more difficult to trace and to sell to advertisers. And ExpressVPN couldn't be easier to set up. You just tap one button on your phone or computer and you're protected. ExpressVPN also encrypts 100% of your data to protect you from hackers and Internet bad guys. It's finally time to say no to censorship and take back your online privacy@expressvpn.com Charlie by visiting my special link, you get an extra three months of ExpressVPN service for free. Again, that's exp r e s s vpn.com Charlie ExpressVPN.com Charlie to protect your data today. And so now we're kind of living in a country where the college campus radicals and the culture that comes from it feel more emboldened and more empowered than ever. And the kind of story that you outline in the film we are being told can't happen and is now a near impossibility. Can you talk about. I mean, you're also. I heard your son, I think, on Dennis Prager's program. I could be wrong, Adam, but I was very impressed. Can you talk about how what you're now seeing in the younger generation, at least amongst his friends, and how that. How it's different than when you grew up? I'd be fascinated kind of of your kind of intergenerational critique there.

B (15:29)

Well, when I was growing up, it was just something that was. I mean, we understood there was such a thing as racism in this country and that this country had sinned a few times for sure, in its past. I watched Roots with my mom, and we understood that this was this horrific chapter in the Past, but now it was modern times. You know, it was the late 70s and the mid-80s and people were very much just into living their life. You know, black, white, Hispanic, whatever. I mean, everyone knew there was a difference, you know, between this group or that group, but it's not, it didn't become who you were. So if you were a woman or you're gay or you're lesbian, or you're black or white or whatever, none of that was who you were. You were an individual. And we're in a country with so many examples of people being successful from every walk of life that it would have seemed insane to say that you couldn't be successful if you were of this group. Now there's a narrative and the narrative is just something that is kind of spoon fed to kids, whether it's cnn, whether it's just popular culture, whether it's the NBA, whether it's Hollywood or whatever is going on on their school campus and it's fed to them in such a way where it just is. It's sort of like a religion. You know, I think people who grow up in religious households, they don't go, well explain this or why is it? Or prove it to me. Like I need proof that there's a God, or I need proof that there's X, Y and Z, they just go, this is. And so if you took my daughter, I have 14 year old twins, my daughter is in the world or in the camp of this just is. If you said, well give me some examples of racism, she'd just go, it is, it's ubiquitous, it's around us, it's beyond, it's much deeper than, here's my priority proof again, it's like a religion. Like I don't need to prove to you that God exists. He exists. It is.

A (17:55)

No, that's exactly. And I feel as if that kind of religious fervor, that's a perfect comparison because like, why are we even discussing it? This is the base, this is the starting point. The starting point is that we all live in kind of this massive leftist religion and everything's racist. You actually don't control your own actions. You don't have agency. And a lot of young people are now, for lack of a better term, infected with this ideology and it impacts their decisions and where they decide to go to school, if they decide to go to school at all, and the decisions they make beyond that. And so I want to build this out further. What do you think are actually some of the solutions to this? Because the movie is Very strong on the criticism of where do you think are, how do we actually fix this? The cancel culture, the rush to censor, to obliterate a political opponent at all costs. How do we actually get to a place of fixing this?

B (18:54)

I think the people that are being accused of being racist or misogynistic or homophobic or whatever are going to have to stop backpedaling and explaining themselves and kind of telling these people, I'm not going to apologize and sort of go a little bit more on the offense versus the defense. I have found with these people, when they accuse somebody of something, the second that person takes a step backwards, they take two steps forward. If you don't take a step backward, then they don't take the step forward.

A (19:33)

Forward.

B (19:33)

They're really looking for opportunities. And once they find out that you don't apologize or that you're not going to genuflect in front of them, they almost you're of no use to them and they move on. For instance, I say things all the time that may sound horrible. No one ever asked me to apologize because they know I don't apologize. So I'm left alone. The people that don't apologize get left alone almost immediately. So it's kind of a two parter. I think the side that's being told that they're bad or that they're racist or that they're oppressive or misogynist, they need to start standing up and instead of trying to have a dialogue and explaining why they're not racist. And by the way, how can you ever explain why you're not racist if you really think about it, you know what I mean? Like, they're telling you this is what's in your heart and then you're trying to explain to them they're not. Those people just need to say, shut up, this is insane. And you owe me an apology for calling me racist. That's number one. Number two, I think that groups of people, large groups of people are going to have to understand that this is not effective. It's not helping, it's not getting anything done. It's kind of that Donald Trump thing when he was on the campaign trail saying to the black community, what do you have to lose? We're just going to need more people saying, has this been effective for you? Are your schools working? You have representation now? Are they representing you? Is your job better? Is your 401k better? Do you have a 401? Like at some point the people who are claiming the powers that be that are saying, we're gonna help these people. At a certain point, they're gonna have to wake up and realize nothing happened for them. They're not doing any better. They're gonna have to humble themselves a little, realize that maybe they backed the wrong candidate and that it was always just lip service, never did anything for them. It never gets any better because it can't. Joe Biden can't do anything for the black community. He'll talk about it, but he can't do anything for them. And neither can almost any or any politician other than open things up, create jobs and create opportunities.

A (22:11)

No, that's really well said. And so speaking of just lip service and not delivering results, I loved your interview a little while back with Gavin Newsom. And so you are now, if I'm understanding this, leaving California, is that right?

B (22:27)

Well, at some point, I gotta get my kids out of high school, if they ever go back to high school. They're not in high school now because all the schools are closed. But at some point, one must leave California unless things change dramatically.

A (22:42)

And so California is really a tragic example of this. Where had everything going for it, had the largest population, the best weather, amazing entrepreneurs, lots of talented people gathered in a kind of a geographic area, and somehow it all got screwed up. You've lived in California your entire life. Can you kind of walk us through this and how it's connected with some of the other themes we've talked about? Because we've seen Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro leave, you've signaled that you're going to leave. I can imagine. For every one Joe Rogan, there's another hundred people that are leaving that aren't making a big public thing about it, or a thousand. Can you talk about how California has just become almost unrecognizable?

B (23:27)

Well, California has always sort of prided itself on being the tip of the spear for change and progress, you know, so we always said, we're gonna set the trends. We're gonna. And we did it with fashion, we did it with entertainment, we did it with tech. California's always been like, we will be the first, we will be the most progressive, we will lead the way. And so it's heavily Democrat. It's got a Democrat supermajority. And they've said, we are gonna enact things that are going to be the most progressive. And the problem with the most progressive is it's the least friendly for taxes, it's the least friendly for business, and in many other. Many other endeavors and rarely yields results. So we're going to have the most progressive schools, we're going to have the most progressive taxes, we're going to have the most progressive legislation. And unfortunately, that always just means more rules, more regulations. You know, there's a funny little example because I made a documentary about Carroll Shelby, the race car driver, automotive builder, Shelby Cobra. Shelby Mustang. That Shelby, he lived in Texas and he came from Texas to Venice Beach, California so that he could build his supercar, so he could build his Shelby Cobras. Could you imagine someone coming from Texas to Venice Beach, California to construct automobiles today? It's a great point that obviously would be insane if you were in Venice, you would then be moving to Texas so that you could build your business up in a place that wasn't over regulated and taxed and everything else. So they tried an experiment, they're still in the middle of it. And, and the problem is it never yields results. They go, we're going to raise taxes so we can have more money. It never works. We're going to have more regulation so we can be safer at work. It never works. All it does is drive people out of the state. And so if you want to know if those plans work, once implemented, then you just look at California and they also had this sort of mindset of let's not punish people. Like, let's not punish criminals, let's not punish the homeless. If you're homeless, then you should be allowed to be where you are. And of course, everything just gets worse immediately. You either do something about the homeless situation or you don't. And you sit back and you just watch it grow 25% every year. And that's what's happening with California. So it's kind of an interesting little petri dish, which is, how fast can you ruin a state with these policies? And the answer is fairly quickly. And then the other little experiment is, what shall the people of the state do once you start ruining it? And the answer is, for Elon Musk and many others, they shall leave. That's the answer. Because they're smart. You know, my whole thing with California, and especially Gavin Newsom, who's really a dumb ass. Do you not think that Elon Musk is smarter than you?

A (27:03)

I bet he is. I think Gavin thinks he's smarter than Elon Musk.

B (27:08)

Well, that's part of what makes him dumb. So he. Well, Gavin is arrogant, but Elon is smart. And how long is Elon going to put up with Gavin's bs? And the answer is for a little while, and then he's going to pick up then the world's richest man is moving to Texas.

A (27:29)

And it seems as if some people in California, I don't know if you ever noticed this, Adam. When I visit, I ask people, how long have you been here? And it's almost they know the exact date they moved in, they have celebrations how long they're there. And it's almost become like a pseudo Stockholm syndrome, you know, I've been in LA for exactly six years and two months now. We're making through it. It's going okay, especially with the lockdowns. It's almost people have pride in like the surviving of the new California. And it used to be a really enjoyable place. I mean, even just a decade ago, a lot of these complaints just kind of. It might have been on tax policy or some social thing, but now it's cross politics. People are, are completely fleeing the state. And I agree with you that Gavin Newsom, he is in particular one of my least favorite types of politicians. Cuz not only is he making bad choices, he's arrogant about it and he completely defies his own rules and doesn't even allow criticism at all whatsoever.

B (28:30)

Well, he shuts the schools down. There's no proof that schools should be shut down. The guy who says follow the science is not following the science whatsoever. And his biggest donor are the unions, the teachers unions. So you do the math. Why are the schools shut down in California? They're shut down because schoolteachers don't want to go back to work and their unions are pressuring Gavin Newsom, who's being a coward and he's sacrificing children along the way. I don't know what would be more sort of tyrannical than that. Kids are suffering, they're languishing. They haven't been in school for coming up on a year and there is no evidence whatsoever that schools should be closed down. But yet the teachers unions, who you have in your back pocket, or I should say they have Newsom in their back pocket, don't want to go back to work. So Newsom, so kowtow to them and meanwhile your kids can suck it at home. That's the kind of governor he is. It's insane. And I'm frankly, the most concerning part about it is the citizens. I have no idea why they put up with this guy. They don't speak out, they don't stand up, they don't make their voices heard. They're such cowards. It drives me insane.

A (29:59)

Yeah. And I mean, Gavin Newsom's response is that, quote, all the new billionaires created by the initial public offerings, noting that its richest people are doing pretty damn well. That's his response, that the ruling class in Menlo park is doing better than ever. So sit down and shut up. Everything's remaining closed forever?

B (30:19)

Well, yeah. First off, rich people always do well. You know, hard times aren't really hard times for them. And we're not worried about the rich people. The rich people have their kids in private schools and the private schools are open. We're worried about the poor people and the middle class people who rely on the public school system. And that remains closed.

A (30:43)

Absolutely. So, Adam, I have a question just on how your planning things out. A lot of people are suddenly disappearing from social media. Are you making any plans to go to alternative platforms? Just generally? What do you think our position should be on a lot of this social media issue? I know Dave Rubin's talked about it a lot. Dennis Prager's talked about it a lot. Are you making any moves or kind of. How are you playing that issue right now?

B (31:11)

I'm not actively making any moves at this point. I do understand that that day will come. Sort of like physically making the move out of state versus virtually or digitally making the move to other platforms. I definitely applaud and encourage these other platforms that have arisen. And I think that the tech guys and Gavin Newsom and whomever, they're making big calculated errors. And I feel the same about CNN and many of these other legacy news outlets, which is you are showing your hand now. You're being so obvious about your politics now that you're going to lose clientele. You go back two years ago and two or three years ago, and I would have these discussions where people would say, don't talk about politics on your podcast. You're going to lose sponsorships. They're pulling out. Every time someone says something that's conservative, you lose sponsors. And if you went and you looked at the itunes charts, you would see almost all progressive political shows and rarely ever a conservative voice. If you look now, you see many conservative voices, including your own, on that, on that chart. So what happened? Well, what happened was, is they pushed so hard to the left that it gave, it gave an opportunity for so many people on the right to be heard and to come into prominence. You know, like you take a voice like Dan Bongino. Dan Bongino. We might not know who Dan Bongino is today if people didn't go so crazy hard to the left that people were looking for some alternative. You know, this is I think CNN is in danger of doing this. Look at the Oscars. The Oscars have done this. They've gone so hard, left the ratings drop every year. People lost interest. You say to me, you say to the average American now, hey, who won the best picture last year? You go, I don't know. You go, you know who won this year? And the person will go, let me guess. It was about transgendered woman of color. And they go, yeah, okay, I'm sure that was the best picture. I'm sure. I'm sure. And no one. And by the way, when is the last time the best picture no one would watch?

A (34:00)

That's exactly right. Usually it was like it was Godfather or Lord of the Rings, not Purple Water or whatever the one was two years ago. I'm sure it's a fine film. I just never heard of it before.

B (34:11)

Right. And no one seeks it out. No one rewatches it. So the. They have hurt their brand. That's my point. And given opportunities to other entities that flew in the face of that narrative.

A (34:29)

No, I think that's exactly right. I was watching either Jimmy Kimmel or Jimmy Fallon the other night, and I saw one of their YouTube clips, and they did a very harsh takedown, as you would expect of President Trump and the, you know, the tragic events that happened on the Capitol. But I didn't feel as if I was watching. It was Jimmy Fallon. I didn't feel as if I was watching a comedy show. I felt like I was watching a political show. And I think you're exactly right that some of these institutions and some of these platforms, for lack of a better term, have become so overly politicized that all of a sudden these new creators are given an opportunity to fill that void. I think that's really, really well put. And so the final question I have, Adam, is what is your advice to specific people that are on these college campuses that are dealing with all the nonsense that you talk about in the film? They are losing friends. They're getting kicked out of fraternities. They're under pressure. And I encourage everyone to check out no Safe Spaces. I think they could find it on SalemNow.com amongst other places. What is your specific advice for them, Adam?

B (35:38)

I would say that the folks that are doing this to you rely on breaking you apart. They're sort of hyenas chasing a pack of gazelles. They got a single one out. They got to pull them from the pack, and then they're going to pounce. If you stay together, if you don't back down. If you don't apologize, you'd be amazed at how many people are like minded but scared, don't want to say anything, and how many folks will step up. And you will also empower them to step up. You know, if 100 restaurants just reopened in Los Angeles on Monday, then there'd be 500 open the next by the next Monday. But it's the one or the two or the three that have to go first.

A (36:30)

First.

B (36:31)

Those are the people that are gonna get hit the hardest. But we need those people. So if you get out and you get thrown out of your fraternity and then you immediately start apologizing to get back into your fraternity, then nothing will ever change.

A (36:48)

Such a good point.

B (36:49)

But if you stick with your convictions and if you get kicked out of your fraternity, it's gonna suck for a little while, but eventually enough people will get kicked out of their fraternity that you'll start your own fraternity and it'll be a better fraternity. So you just have to weather the storm.

A (37:06)

And a great point you've made a couple times. This podcast, Adam is Apologizing is their currency. That is how they chart success. When you don't apologize unless you've done something. If you've done something legitimately wrong, then apologize. But a forced apology is how they actually get there. That's how they get their points on the board. That is really, really well put. That's how they determine success. Well, the film is no Safe Spaces. The great Adam Carolla. And Adam is the most downloaded podcaster ever. So it's an honor always to talk to you, Adam. And thanks so much for joining.

B (37:38)

Thanks, Charlie.

A (37:39)

You bet. Talk to you soon. Thanks. Thanks so much for listening everybody. Email us your questions freedomarliekirk.com as always, you can support us@charliekirk.com Support and I encourage you to get involved with Turning Point USA where we play offense with a sense of urgency to win America's culture war. Tpusa.com. thanks so much for listening everybody. God bless.