Podcast Summary: The Charlie Kirk Show — "How to Win America’s Cold Civil War"
Date: September 16, 2021
Guest: Thomas D. Klingenstein (Chairman, Claremont Institute)

Episode Overview

This episode features a spirited discussion between host Charlie Kirk and Thomas D. Klingenstein about America’s current state, which Klingenstein characterizes as a "cold civil war." The conversation focuses on the ideological battle within the United States, contrasting traditional American principles with what Klingenstein terms "woke communism." Both contend that victory in this struggle depends on clarity, decisive leadership, and grassroots mobilization—urging listeners to recognize the seriousness of the cultural and political conflict.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining the "Cold Civil War"

• Klingenstein's Perspective:

  • Describes the conflict as a war of irreconcilable ends, likening it to the Civil War (02:10).
  • Asserts that "woke communism" (aka identity politics or multiculturalism) seeks group outcome equality, which fundamentally opposes America’s commitment to individual freedom.
  • "To win a war, you have to know you’re in one. And I think we have...Republican leaders in the Senate who haven’t figured that out." (02:10, Thomas Klingenstein)

• Charlie's Agreement:

  • American workers sense something is deeply wrong, even if they struggle to articulate it (04:15).
  • Stresses that most Americans feel the cultural shift but lack the vocabulary or framework to describe it.

2. "Woke Communism" vs. American Values

• Klingenstein explains "woke communism" as an ideology that requires every institution to be changed, history to be rewritten, and dissenters to be silenced (05:09).
• “The enemy I call woke communists...This regime has a different understanding of justice.” (02:10, Klingenstein)
• Tech censorship is seen as enforcing ideological conformity.

3. The American Way of Life

• At its root: commitment to individual freedom—the right of individuals to pursue happiness as they see fit (08:06).
• Key attributes: hard work, self-reliance, colorblindness, believing in American exceptionalism.
• The divide: “Some people think America is good and they want to preserve it; other people think it’s bad and therefore want to throw it out.” (08:06, Klingenstein)
• Trump praised as “unequivocally, unapologetically pro-American.” (08:06, Klingenstein)

4. Tactics, Leadership, and Conservative Messaging

• Lack of recognition among Republicans:

  • “Most people drift. And I think we are drifting or we are wandering over a cliff. We need leaders...” (11:25, Klingenstein)
  • Critiques moderate Republicans for not recognizing the urgency, insisting, “That’s what is going to get us killed.” (15:59, Klingenstein)
  • Libertarian “live and let live” strategies are seen as obsolete in face of an aggressive, uncompromising opposition.

• Leadership Examples:

  • Trump lauded for courage and directness but deemed not the best explainer (16:17).
  • The party needs a uniting, anti-woke platform as it once did around anti-communism or anti-slavery.

5. The Nature of Justice and the Divide

• Discussion of "social justice" vs. "American justice":
  • Social justice aims for “group outcome equality”—not compatible with American individualism and constitutional values (13:02).
  • “Republicans tell the Democrats to follow the Constitution...Democrats don’t believe in the values the Constitution seeks to protect....In a war, one side breaks the rules...because they don’t believe in the rules.” (13:02, Klingenstein)

6. Urgency and the Role of the General Public

• Winning requires more than high-minded debate; it requires assertion and moral clarity (15:59-18:15).
• Trump as the “bodyguard of Western civilization,” likened to General Grant: rough around the edges but effective in the fight (27:20-28:55).
• Republicans lose ground by always taking the "high road" and refusing to personalize political conflict.

7. Risks of Complacency and What Defeat Looks Like

• Complacency among Baby Boomers and elites: Those who avoid confronting the reality to protect their lifestyle (20:40).
• If “woke communism” prevails, traditional institutions—family, religion, education—will be remade or destroyed (35:09-36:29).
• “All the institutions that support the American way of life will be destroyed or made woke.” (35:09, Klingenstein)

8. Historical Lessons: Lincoln & Churchill

• Lincoln as a model for the time: understood the stakes, showed prudence, and articulated the cause worth fighting for.
  • "Lincoln understood if democracy died here, it died everywhere for a long, long while." (37:34)
  • Churchill and Lincoln both framed battles for civilization as existential.
• Prudence and courage are presented as essential leadership qualities (37:34-39:30).

9. Action Steps for “the Infantry”

• Grassroots activism:
  • Engage in anti-Critical Race Theory campaigns, run for school boards, and protest at local levels (40:08).
  • “We need people standing up and, when they’re canceled, to stop apologizing. Most people, when they get canceled, they say, ‘I was terribly wrong. I’ll never do it again.’ That’s nonsense.” (40:08, Klingenstein)
  • “This happens one by one and everybody can do a little thing. Obviously, some people can do more.” (40:08, Klingenstein)

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• “To win a war, you have to know you’re in one.” (02:10, Klingenstein)
• “The only way to eliminate those outcome differences [between groups] is by force, by tyranny.” (02:33, Klingenstein)
• “America’s understanding of justice is individual freedom...there will always be group outcome differences.” (02:50, Klingenstein)
• “If you think America is systemically racist...then you have to throw out the American way of life.” (05:09, Klingenstein)
• “Our greatest strength has been to transcend race.” (23:14, Klingenstein)
• “Trump would probably be the worst president we ever had in any other time, but this time.” (25:29, Klingenstein)
• “In a war, one side breaks the rules, because they don’t believe in the rules, and then the other side breaks it, because they have to survive.” (13:02, Klingenstein)
• “Live and let live will lose to do it our way or else, every time.” (28:55, Klingenstein)
• “All the institutions that support the American way of life will be destroyed or made woke.” (35:09, Klingenstein)
• “People in their own little way standing up at a meeting and saying, ‘This is nonsense,’ and then incurring the wrath or the charge of racism...everybody can do a little thing.” (40:08, Klingenstein)

Important Segments and Timestamps

• 02:10 – Klingenstein defines the “enemy” as “woke communism” and explains the need to recognize we’re in a culture war.
• 05:09 – Discussion of how “woke” ideology remakes institutions and American history.
• 08:06 – What is the American way of life?—Individualism vs. collectivism.
• 13:02 – The competing concepts of justice and why constitutional appeals fail.
• 15:59 – Why Republican moderation and libertarian attitudes are inadequate.
• 23:14 – When the “cold civil war” began and the dangers of race-based division.
• 25:29 – What kind of presidential leadership is needed in 2024 and why Trump fits the moment.
• 27:20 – Critique of Republican unwillingness to fight, using Trump and Grant as analogies.
• 35:09 – What losing the culture war would mean for America’s institutions.
• 37:34 – Lessons from Lincoln and Churchill for today’s leaders.
• 40:08 – Concrete action steps for ordinary citizens to take.

Takeaways & Calls-to-Action

• Recognize and name the conflict: Understand the stakes and be unafraid to label the ideological struggle as a form of civil war.
• Assert American values: Leaders and citizens must clearly and unapologetically defend individual freedom and reject collectivist narratives.
• Organize and act locally: Get involved with school boards, protest Critical Race Theory, and stop capitulating to cancel culture.
• Refuse to apologize for patriotism: Stand up for American values in every sphere and push back against false accusations.
• Draw from historical resolve: Look to figures like Lincoln and Churchill for models of standing firm in existential struggles.

For further reading:

• "Winning the Cold Civil War" by Thomas D. Klingenstein (link available at charliekirk.com)
• More on Claremont Institute and The American Mind (americanmind.org)

Host: Charlie Kirk
Guest: Thomas D. Klingenstein
Podcast: The Charlie Kirk Show
Date: September 16, 2021