How Trump Is Leading America Back To Capitalism, People, and Patriotism with Sean Spicer

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Charlie Kirk Show

Episode: How Trump Is Leading America Back To Capitalism, People, and Patriotism with Sean Spicer
Date: October 13, 2020
Host: Charlie Kirk
Guest: Sean Spicer (Author of "Leading America", Former White House Press Secretary)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Charlie Kirk interviews Sean Spicer on the eve of the 2020 presidential election. They discuss Spicer’s new book, Leading America, and explore how President Trump’s administration has contributed to the resurgence of capitalism, American values, and patriotism. Together, they break down Trump’s political victories, campaign strategies for the 2020 election, challenges conservatives face in media and culture, the role of youth activism, and how generational shifts are shaping the political landscape.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Motivation Behind "Leading America"

• Sean Spicer explains his book aims to compile the collective challenges conservatives face in education, media, big tech, and culture, noting liberals often dismiss these concerns ([01:49]):
  • “People read the book and go, oh my gosh, have that aha moment and say, I didn't fully appreciate what you guys were talking about.” — Sean Spicer [01:49]

2. Trump Administration’s Achievements

• Judicial Appointments: Spicer emphasizes the depth and influence of judicial appointments as a historic legacy—especially the type and philosophy of Trump’s Supreme Court and lower court picks ([02:51]):
  • “It's not just the number, it's the type. These are real conservative justices that aren't going to stray.” — Sean Spicer [02:51]
• Regulatory and Economic Policy: Reducing regulations, taxes, strengthening the military, and supporting veterans ([02:51]-[04:03])
• Accountability and Follow-through: Trump as unique in keeping legislative and policy promises compared to typical campaign rhetoric ([02:51]-[04:03])

3. Messaging and Second Term Agenda

• Communication Shortfalls: Both agree Trump’s accomplishments are not well known among average voters and urge for more focused messaging ([04:03]-[05:57])
  • “People don't vote for you because you let more emails out. They vote for you because you created more jobs, because you strengthened the military, because you took care of the vet.” — Sean Spicer [04:19]
  • Regeneron and COVID: Spicer advises Trump to focus on pandemic initiatives and economic growth, less on grievances and past attacks ([05:57]):
    • “He needs to stay laser focused on stuff like Regeneron and what he's doing to eradicate Covid, what he's gonna do to continue to grow the economy.” — Sean Spicer [05:57]

4. Media, Academia, and Conservative Suppression

• Hostility in Media & Academia: Spicer describes a culture in journalism schools and media oriented toward progressive activism, double standards in coverage, and the intent to “cancel” conservatives ([08:43]-[10:24]):
  • “It's not about reporting on the facts. In so many cases, the mission statement is your job is to make the world a better place... that's going to be vastly different from how a liberal believes the world needs to be made a better place.” — Sean Spicer [09:08]
• Cancel Culture & Bias: They highlight real-world impacts, including a young woman fired for supporting Trump and the suppression of conservative views on campus and in corporate America ([12:14]-[14:59]):
  • “If you put a Donald Trump hat on... people have no problem targeting you...but don't worry, you can support Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Bernie Sanders...That's fine. Because we're okay with that.” — Sean Spicer [13:34]
• K-12 and Higher Education Concerns: Spicer and Kirk discuss the risks of sending students to colleges that may indoctrinate rather than educate, and the broader implications for families and culture ([15:09]-[16:39]):
  • “I don't need my kids to go to school to learn the values. I need them to go to learn writing, arithmetic, science, history, and not discern what their values are by some public servant.” — Sean Spicer [15:09]

5. 2020 Election Analysis

• Swing States and Electoral Map: Both analyze key states—Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Arizona, Florida, Minnesota, Nevada—and voter demographics ([19:44]-[26:52]):
  • “His biggest opportunities right now are Wisconsin and Minnesota.” — Sean Spicer [23:55]
  • “If Donald Trump isn't ahead by about 150,000 votes in Pennsylvania, he will lose.” — Sean Spicer [24:12]
• Demographic Trends: Discussion centers around Trump’s performance and the GOP’s prospects among:
  • Seniors: Losing ground, critical in Florida. Seniors react to Trump’s style, virus management, and values ([26:52]-[29:53]).
    • “Seniors are the largest block...I think for a lot of seniors, especially senior women, it comes down to the tone, tenor and style.” — Sean Spicer [27:10]
  • Minorities and Young Voters: Gains with Hispanics, Black voters, and especially young conservatives—a credit to youth activism ([28:33]-[29:35]).
  • Women: Subgroup breakdown—stronger with 40–55-year-old women with college-age kids, weaker with younger women ([28:33])

6. COVID-19 Response

• Evolving Science and Media Double Standards: Spicer acknowledges the scientific uncertainty and criticizes media inconsistencies regarding approved behaviors (protests vs. church, etc.) ([30:28]-[31:39]):
  • “It's not his fault when the science changes...certain activities are okay and certain aren't...the media has and the left has really screwed the American people.” — Sean Spicer [30:28]

7. Winning Strategy for 2020

• Focus on Seniors & Policy Outcomes: Convince low-propensity GOP voters, especially seniors, emphasizing the American Dream and generational opportunity ([33:32]-[34:16]).
  • “Seniors are very selfless. They care about the next generation ... talk about that American dream and what the president has done to ... grow the economy, put people back to work, give them a career...” — Sean Spicer [33:32]
• Urgency and Generational Consequences: Stress the stakes—policy reversals would become entrenched if lost in 2020 ([34:19]-[35:09]):
  • “Once Biden and Harris are in for four years, it will take generations to undo what they do, if ever.” — Sean Spicer [34:19]

8. Advice for Young Conservatives

• Get Involved, Work Hard: Spicer urges young people to intern, “get your hands dirty,” discover strengths by doing, and start grassroots activism ([35:47]-[37:25]):
  • “Getting involved, getting your hands dirty, figuring out how to be that person that solves problems, that works later than everyone else is where it happens.” — Sean Spicer [35:47]
• Credit to Turning Point: Spicer praises Kirk and Turning Point USA for mobilizing youth and providing conservative counterweights on campus ([37:25]):
  • “The growth in the youth vote is because of an organization like Turning Point...We’re going to present you with actual facts.” — Sean Spicer [37:25]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “These are real conservative justices that aren't going to stray.” — Sean Spicer [02:51]
• “People don't vote for you because you let more emails out. They vote for you because you created more jobs, because you strengthened the military, because you took care of the vet.” — Sean Spicer [04:19]
• “It's not about reporting on the facts. In so many cases…the mission statement is your job is to make the world a better place.” — Sean Spicer [09:08]
• “We have the toughest next generation of conservatives ever in the history of the planet.” — Charlie Kirk [10:24]
• “Seniors are the largest block...for a lot of seniors, especially senior women, it comes down to the tone, tenor and style.” — Sean Spicer [27:10]
• “Once Biden and Harris are in for four years, it will take generations to undo what they do, if ever.” — Sean Spicer [34:19]
• “Getting involved, getting your hands dirty, figuring out how to be that person that solves problems...is where it happens.” — Sean Spicer [35:47]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Book & Conservative Challenges: [01:49]
• Trump’s Judicial and Policy Legacy: [02:51]
• Campaign Communication & Second Term: [04:03], [05:57]
• Media/Academic Bias and Cancel Culture: [08:43]-[15:09]
• 2020 Election Electoral Analysis: [19:44]-[24:43]
• Demographics and GOP Trends: [26:52]-[29:35]
• COVID-19 Response & Media: [30:28]
• Advice for Young Conservatives: [35:47]-[37:25]

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Final Thoughts

Charlie Kirk and Sean Spicer deliver a passionate, unapologetically conservative analysis of the Trump presidency and 2020 electoral landscape, arguing the outcome will shape American policy and society for generations. Key calls to action center around focused voter engagement, especially among seniors, resisting left-wing cultural dominance, and the continued mobilization of conservative youth. Spicer's reflections offer both practical campaign advice and encouragement for grassroots involvement, underlining the persistent headwinds but also the resilience and potential of the conservative movement.

Transcript

[Sean Spicer]

Thank you for listening to this Podcast 1 production now available on Apple Podcasts, Podcast 1, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hey, everybody. Today on the Charlie Kirk show, we are joined by my friend Sean Spicer with exclusive political commentary on what states Trump needs to win in the 2020 race, and most importantly, what Trump is doing that he did not do in 2016. It's very interesting. And what groups he's doing better with and what groups is he doing worse with might surprise you. Email us your questions. [e-mail] support [e-mail] support if this podcast has impacted you in any way whatsoever. And also if you want to get involved with Turning Point USA, go to tpusa.com Sean Spicer is here. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

[Sean Spicer]

Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

[Charlie Kirk]

Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

[Sean Spicer]

I want to thank. Charlie's an incredible guy, his spirit, his love of this country.

[Charlie Kirk]

He's done an amazing job building one

[Sean Spicer]

of the most powerful youth organizations ever

[Charlie Kirk]

created, Turning Point usa. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Hey, everybody. Welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show. I am joined by my friend and terrific American, Sean Spicer, who is the author of a very exciting new book, Leading America. Sean, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.

[Sean Spicer]

Thanks. It's an honor to be here.

[Charlie Kirk]

So we're a couple weeks out from the election. I imagine that the reason you wrote this book is to help clarify the choice between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. Tell us why you wrote the book, and then let's dive into some of the big themes in it.

[Sean Spicer]

I wrote the book because I don't think that people fully appreciate the headwinds that conservatives face every day, whether it's on college campuses, in the classroom, in big tech, corporate America, in Hollywood. And so to put that collectively down in one place and to say, this is what it's like, because so many times liberals dismiss conservative concerns and say, give me a break. You guys are so full of it when you looked at it collectively. I think people read the book and go to, oh, my gosh, have like that aha moment and say, I didn't fully appreciate what you guys were talking about. And again, and I think it goes back to why the president's policies are moving the country in the right direction and what the alternative would be.

[Charlie Kirk]

So let's. Let's dive into that. There are a lot of people that do not know the full list of victories that the Trump administration has accomplished. What would you say are the biggest ones that people don't always know or they're not able to say off the top of their head that you believe are monumental and historic, that the Trump administration has been able to achieve.

[Sean Spicer]

So I think first on my list always is going to be judges. And I know a lot of people talk about, well, I know he's appointed judges. But the depth and breadth of that is something that's not known because it's not just the three Supreme Court justices, and I count Amy Coney as a justice because it's fait accompli as far as I'm concerned. But to have three in one term, and, Charlie, it's not the number, it's the type. These are real conservative justices that aren't going to stray. We don't think we have to worry about them in the mold of some ones, like Justice Breyer, that we've seen kind of get appointed by a Republican and then drift to the left. But it's also what he's done at the lower levels of the federal court that, to me, first and foremost, is going to be his legacy for at least generations to come. Regulations and taxes is up there. I think what he's done for veterans in the military are all equally as important. But I think the biggest thing. I've been in politics for 25 years, it's the first time in modern history that I can remember a candidate running for reelection saying, I kept my word on all of the things that I said I was gonna do, and I not only implement them, but they moved the country in the right direction. Think about, he's not coming and saying, look, guys, wow, there was a Democratic Congress. I couldn't get this done. I need four more years. He's saying, look what I got done. There's even more to come.

[Charlie Kirk]

Do you think that the president needs to lean in more on this list of accomplishments? Because we've knocked on over 200,000 doors at Turning Point Action, our political arm. And I'm gonna be honest, Sean, most people have no idea. They have no idea.

[Sean Spicer]

I spoke with the president earlier this week, and I said exactly that. I said, Mr. President, when you said 47 months of accomplish versus 47 years of doing nothing, that was so perfectly themed out. That's what it is, Charlie. Here's the deal. I Get the president's got grievances and I understand him, in some cases he's been treated unfairly. A lot of people who've done stuff on the other side of the aisle have not been held accountable the way he has for less. And so I understand it, right? I think if you're under attack the way he is, you get it. But at the end of the day, people don't vote for you because you let more emails out. They vote for you because you created more jobs, because you strengthened the military, because you took care of the vet. That's what they do. And so if he can focus on that, get another four years, then he can deal with all the other stuff as well. But he has a great list of accomplishments and the more that he just hammers at home. And also the contrast could not be greater. Biden's been around for 47 years and he framed it so perfectly in the debate. Just say, okay, Joe, why do you need four more years when you couldn't get anything done in 47?

[Charlie Kirk]

And I think the corruption issue is a huge issue. I am so upset that no one has gone to jail for the Russia investigation, which I want to build out with you, the Hillary emails. However, dealing with corruption is going to be a second term task. And if you don't have a second term, all this corruption will just go into the far distant memory and no one will be held accountable. Sean, what do you think the President has to do even better in articulating a second term agenda? I mean, when we're knocking on doors, people say, I can't tell you what the President actually is gonna do in the second term.

[Sean Spicer]

Isn't that sad though? I mean, but the problem is, so I mentioned, I was on the phone with him the other day, he said, you know, what do you think about Regeneron? Look it, I'm gonna give it up for free and the military's gonna deploy this. And I said, Mr. President, then talk about that. But you can't expect other people to do it because he's got this massive bully pulpit and whatever he talks about, people talk about. So if he's talking about the corruption, if he's talking about emails, then that's what people are gonna talk about. He needs to stay laser focused on stuff like Regeneron and what he's doing to eradicate Covid, what he's gonna do to continue to grow the economy. But he did this so well in the lead up to the last election, for the 30 last days, he was focused like a Laser beam. He needs to be focused again on that and talk about nothing but policies. They're gonna continue to move the country forward. That's it. He did everything he did on trade. Again, revising a trade deal is no big deal in the sense that just doing it for the sake of it. But that's not why he did it. He did it to make people's lives better, to bring jobs.

[Charlie Kirk]

And it's a good deal.

[Sean Spicer]

Right. So it's not a question of, oh, I revised it. It's, he now has dairy farmers in Wisconsin that live a better life. He has auto workers in Detroit that are living a better life because he fought for them. That's what they need to do, is to talk about those policies but not worry about the extraneous stuff that you're absolutely right. Go in a second term, you got 40 years, then go figure that stuff out. But if you don't get there, the point that you made is so cruc. Crystal. Excuse me. Is so important because once he's gone, no one's going to continue to look into this and it's going to get swept under the rug and we're going to move back to the same kind of swamp type mentality that existed.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. And that's. That's my fear. And I know a lot of really good people that have been fed disinformation and misinformation and from a propagandist media. Sean, you dealt with this propagandist media firsthand. You wrote a great book. I believe the title is the Briefing. Is that right? Talking about it. And you were on the front lines of the Trump administration. I want to compliment you, Sean, because you are a good person. You have refused to say one bad thing about the President post being trusted with the highest office. And that is not the case for some of these other people that I believe have engaged in Dante's ninth circle of hell, which is treachery. You know, Dante talked about the worst thing that you. Dante, I should say the worst thing that a human being could do, the lowest level, is betray. And these people that have been in the White House that take their knives out and then stab the back and the President, people have used the word treason. I think that's overused. I think it is just blatantly immoral and evil. I want to thank you for that, Sean, cuz you've been so loyal and you don't get enough credit for that. What did you glean from your time in the White House of dealing with the activist media and how they intentionally misinform the American people.

[Sean Spicer]

Well, first, thank you for the kind words. But I'll say, I think it speaks volumes to the kind of person you want to be. If you're the kind of friend, co worker, family member that people don't feel like they can trust you, then they're not going to tell you things and they're not going to come back to you. You know, to your point, I want to be able to look at people that I want to work with in the future and say, look, you can talk to me, you can trust me, I can give you counseling. You know, it's not going to end

[Charlie Kirk]

up on a blog somewhere or, or some crazy book. Are you kidding me?

[Sean Spicer]

I mean, but to your point, Charlie, when I was researching this book, I started to look at journalism schools and there's an entire chapter on journalism schools. And it was mind blowing to me what they're teaching and how they're teaching journalists. And it's not about reporting on the facts. In so many cases. The mission statement is your job is to make the world a better place. Well, I can tell you my view of a better place is a much more limited government, much less, much less regulation, fewer taxes, more power to the people, greater empowerment of charities and organizations that want to help people. And so that's going to be vastly different from how a liberal believes the world needs to be made a better place. And when you realize that journalists, that's their goal. When they went into this White House, they realized, this guy is not one of us. So we are going to fight with everything we can. I also get into this idea of the double standards. What happens is to folks on the right when they say stuff, and you see this all the time on college campuses and throughout your travels, the person on the right can say the exact same thing as someone on the left. And the way that they are treated and canceled out on the right, that's exactly right. On the left, they're excused and allowed to continue because, well, it's in pursuit of their greater good.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, it's the left. They hate the idea that there are other ideas. And the left is. They are persistent in their pursuit of not just trying to attain power, not just trying to win arguments they don't actually care about, that they want to destroy us. And I tell this to conservatives, young conservatives, and what's really interesting, Sean, is we have the toughest next generation of conservatives ever in the history of the planet. It's an unintended consequence of the malevolence of the Left because we have 16, 17, 18 year olds that are losing jobs, losing internships, losing friends. By the time they're 22, they are battle ready. No more of the kind of country club type Republican. I'm going to be really direct with you. If your cellular plan is with Verizon, AT&T or T Mobile, you're just paying too much. You are paying too much money for the exact same coverage that you would be getting right now with peertalk. Look at your cell phone bill where it shows data usage. The average person who switches to PeerTalk is using less than 4 gigs of data a month. But the big carriers are charging unlimited data. It's like paying for an entire row on an airline, but only needing one seat. That's how PeerTalk saves the average person over $400 a year on their wireless service. Unlimited Talk, text and two gigs of data, all for just $20 a month. And if you go over on data usage, they don't charge you for it. Hey, look, just by switching to PeerTalk, it's the easiest decision you make today. Grab your mobile phone, dial £250 and say, Charlie Kirk. When you do, you'll save 50% off your first month. Dial £250 and say keyword Charlie Kirk. PeerTalk, simply Smarter Wireless. Welcome back, everybody. Charlie Kirk show. Radio stations across the country. CharlieKirk.com joined right now with my friend Sean Spicer, author of Leading America. Everyone go pick up a copy right now. We were talking about how the left doesn't just try to cancel you, they try to destroy you. I just got an email right here. Sean is unbelievable. We get thousands and thousands of emails on our podcast from young people across the country. Young lady who works as a musical publicist in Tennessee and she posted a picture that said four more years with President Donald Trump signed. I'm going to read this email right now. It's so unbelievably stunning. I have never seen an email so incredibly just honest about how they don't want opposition ideas. So this young lady is an outspoken conservative. Newfound outspoken conservative. She got this email from her employer. Let me read this to you. They say due to you posting this. Let me see this. Pull this up right here. They say in interest of transparency, they say we have to fire you. We saw your latest Instagram post in which you held a Make America great again posterior. From this we infer that you support the policies and ideologies of Donald Trump's administration, which blatantly undermine the values that we uphold at our company. Blurred out. Therefore, we will dissolve ties with you, pay referral fees through February 2021, and we'll be terminating our professional relationship. They admit it's because of Donald Trump. I mean, this is. Can you build this out more, Sean, of how you saw this?

[Sean Spicer]

But, Charlie, look, you're the one on college campuses. I talk about this in the book that I traveled around, I went to Berkeley. My God, I thought I was scared that this was gonna be the end of my life. I joke in the book that I always know where I'm headed by the amount of security I'm assigned. And the problem is that there is no hiding it anymore. If you put a Donald Trump hat on a Make America Great hat, put a sign in your yard, people have no problem targeting you. And to your point of that email, they'll just say it, you support the president, you are obviously bad. But don't worry, you can support Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, all of these people. That's fin. Because we're okay with that. And that goes down the line of corporate Hollywood, big tech. Think about the number of students you guys face on college campuses. I talk about this in the book, Charlie, when I was on college campuses and you're on there a heck of a lot more than I am. I always ask, how many conservatives have you had on campus? Either one of the first few, if not the first. How sad is that? On a place that you're supposed to be learning and seeing both sides, that they're not even given it. And when they are, it's to shout them down, to cancel them out, to protest them, in the case of some of the stuff at Berkeley, to light things on fire. But it is so unbelievable. And it's actually what makes it worse is not that the students are doing it, but they're being enabled by faculty and staff of the college.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes. They're being instructed to do it. They are being trained to do it. And that's what people have to realize. When you send your kid to college, you're playing Russian roulette with their values.

[Sean Spicer]

Before the college chapter. I write this whole thing on K through 12, and in researching the book, it was stunning to me. Because you think as a parent, I'm the parent of two young kids, you send them off to school, they're teaching them writing, arithmetic, art, science, whatever. Maybe, you know, a little PE there. When you start to see the actual curriculum, some of the things that are being taught in fourth, fifth, sixth grade about values and policies who's right, who's wrong, what candidates are right or wrong? The idea that cities across the country, they are given time off to protest causes. And I write in the book, I said, just for what it's worth, you may, like, in many cases, they're getting the day off to protest climate change. And I write in the book, and I said, listen, I'm not here to argue the merits of climate change, but just stop for a moment and think to yourself, if that school board was taken over by conservatives who wanted to send your kids to a pro life rally, would you think the same as you do right now about climate change? And my guess is that a lot of folks on the left would say, well, that's different. And it's like, you're right, it is. But I don't need my kids to go to school to learn the values. I need them to go to learn writing, arithmetic, science, history, and not discern what their values are by some public servant. God bless them. I appreciate everything that teachers do, don't get me wrong. But when you realize that this is the stuff that's being encouraged and, oh, by the way, if you don't do it, then you're going to get held accountable for not being part of the group that goes and protest these causes that they've deemed worthy.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's exactly right. And you see time and time again a pattern of the people that are in charge of the instruction and the education of our children. Not educate, but indoctrinate, almost sow seeds of bitter resentment for the greatest country ever to exist in the history of the world. And I tell parents, be very careful sending your kids to college. Very careful. And what college? Why are they going? How are they going to pay for it? It is a multidimensional risk. It's not just a financial risk. It's not just a social risk. It's also a philosophical, religious and spiritual risk. I mean, you are talking about a completely human being that could exit that college. And I don't mean different in a good way. I mean that different in a way that will be completely and totally unrecognizable to parents that spent their entire fortune trying to make sure their kids go to college. It's Charlie Kirk, host of the Charlie Kirk Show. We are here with Sean Spicer. The book is Leading America. Everyone go pick up a copy and make sure you guys are subscribed to the Charlie Kirk show podcast. Type in Charlie Kirk show to your podcast provider. Hit that subscribe button. When is the perfect time to plant trees and shrubs. Big box store experts will tell you anytime or I don't know. But the best time to plant is actually fall right here, right now. Which means you got to do something at fast growing trees.com skip the big box stores and head to fast growing trees.com the world's largest online nursery. No more waiting in line, messy cars and digging through a lackluster selection. Just go to fast growingtrees.com and choose from thousands of varieties of trees, shrubs and plants expertly curated to thrive in your area and delivered to your door in one or two days. Whether you're looking for shade, privacy, fruit trees, or just added color for your yard, every plant is shipped with a well developed root system ready to explode. With new growth coming this spring, there's a better way to buy trees and shrubs plants for your home yard. Fast GrowingTrees.com now through November 15th go to FastGrowingTrees.com Kirk for 10% off. That's 10% off at Fast GrowingTrees.com Kirk welcome back everybody. Charlie Kirk here. Charlie Kirk show radio stations across the country. Also Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, not TikTok and podcast providers across the country. Type in Charlie Kirk show your podcast creator. Sean I want to get into the 2020 election. You were the communications director of the Republican Party RNC Republican National Committee back in 2016, if I remember correctly. You did a phenomenal job of having the President's back even after the Billy Bush tapes, all of that. You held the line when they were calls for him to drop out. People forget that there were calls for the president to drop out less than a month out from the election. You held the line beautifully and nicely. What's the state of the race here, Sean? Because if I'm being honest, I am kind of in the middle. I don't know how to process some of this information. I'm getting. I'm getting information from people on the ground that this thing might be a lot closer than people think. What are you seeing and hearing?

[Sean Spicer]

I think it's a lot closer. But Charlie, I remind people all the time. Michigan was won by 10,704 votes. That's 0.22 over percent. Pennsylvania was 44,000 votes. Wisconsin was 24,000 votes. If you take that, realize that Hillary Clinton was a hated and despised candidate by many in her own party and replace it with Joe Biden, who, let's face it, has bad policies but is rather a milquetoast individual. There's not a lot of hatred for the guy. People May not like him, but he's not as viscerally disliked as a Hillary Clinton. It can change the dynamic really quick. And so look, if you want President Trump reelected, if you recognize the importance of these policies, and we were talking about this earlier in the show, then get out there, vote, vote early. But right now I'm gonna tell you, if the 2018 election wasn't a wake up call for folks on the right, then they got another thing coming to them because these guys are fired up. They know what they're doing. Now if the Trump campaign can keep this thing close, I believe that their ground game in their political operation, I agree with that. Are the most sophisticated in modern history, but it's only worth a field goal. You gotta keep the race.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's exactly right.

[Sean Spicer]

And in a state like Michigan, if you can't get within three, it won't matter. So they got it. And the problem that I see is

[Charlie Kirk]

they have to close the gap. You're exactly right.

[Sean Spicer]

You got Arizona in play right now. There's a lot of these states. I think the Trump campaign needs to figure out, here's how we're gonna get to 270. I love to see us pick up Minnesota, but they gotta shore up what it's gonna take to stay and get 270.

[Charlie Kirk]

So let's just talk about electoral math. Sean, I kind of want to get geeky with you because you actually understand the political math. So you got to get 270 electoral votes to win. I think it's a given, at least. I operate from the given of Iowa, Ohio and North Carolina going for Trump. If we lose those, we're losing everything. Everything else is like a non starter. I think we win those three. I like what I'm seeing out of those three states, Georgia and Texas, not going to happen this cycle. We got those ones in the bag both on the Senate side and on the presidential side. Therefore, then you got all of a sudden fastened down in Arizona, Florida. The fact Arizona is in contention should be a fire alarm for conservatives because that used to be a reliably red state. And you remember Mitt Romney, who. It leaves a lot to be desired. He won Arizona by 9.4 points. I mean, it was a, wasn't even contested and a lot of it was because he's Mormon. East Valley voters, you know, there's a lot of that. And Also, you know, McCain moms in Scottsdale and in Fountain Hills, they, you know, they're more moderate in nature. And so. But now Arizona is in play. And so I think Trump can win Arizona. Florida is going to be a beast. It always is. But Florida's actually been trending more conservative in voter registration, in mentality. It all kind of comes down to a Rust Belt state. Then can you rob one from the former Blue Wall that they're trying to reconstruct? Right. Can you keep one brick back? That's kind of what I've been telling people. Can you keep one brick for yourself and let them win three? We win one. And again, none of that matters if you don't win Arizona or Florida. The only way is if you win a Pennsylvania, but then you're tied at 269, depending on how CD2 goes in Nebraska or CD2 goes in Maine, and it goes to 2. 69 goes to the House. Pelosi will run the clock out till she gets enough votes. Where it's. Every state gets one vote. Where do you think that the President's best chances are here, electorally? Is it a Pennsylvania? Is it a Wisconsin? Is it a Michigan? Is it Minnesota? Is it in Nevada? You think all of a sudden we can kind of steal one from the Sunbelt? They're not looking at. What are you seeing, Sean?

[Sean Spicer]

All right, so real quickly, I think Arizona is a lot more in play. It's gonna be challenging. I just. He's down right now. Look, here's the thing that people don't recognize. This is gonna be one of the hidden things of the election in 2016. Fifteen states, nine that went for Trump, six that went for Clinton, were won by a plurality, not a majority, Arizona included. Meaning that you had these third party candidates that had a big effect. Jill Stein and then Gary Johnson.

[Charlie Kirk]

Gary Johnson, Yeah.

[Sean Spicer]

We don't have those big enough. So if you're talking about one or two or three points and you get that taken down to a point, that leaves a lot of wiggle room in there.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, you're right.

[Sean Spicer]

I don't think Nevada's in play, not because the President's not gonna win it. They went to all mail in for a reason. They knew the President was doing well, he was coming up strong in that state. I think they mailed every person living in debt a ballot for a reason. I think Michigan and Pennsylvania are very challenging. His biggest challenge, his biggest opportunities right now are Wisconsin and Minnesota.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's interesting. Tell me why. I don't know if I would have had that same analysis. Tell me why.

[Sean Spicer]

I think just if you look at the data both in terms of Pennsylvania now, I will say this. Pennsylvania, I think of the other of the Two, I think Michigan's the furthest away.

[Charlie Kirk]

I agree with that. That I agree with. Yes. Sorry to interrupt you.

[Sean Spicer]

Pennsylvania. I think it could, if you call me the day after election, say he got Pennsylvania. I wouldn't. Here's the thing. On election night, if Donald Trump isn't ahead by about 150,000 votes in Pennsylvania, he will lose. He's got to get the day of vote. The mail in vote in Pennsylvania is going to be the biggest challenge and that's gonna be the problem in Pennsylvania. But I do think that Minnesota has been trending red. He came very close last time without putting any resources in it. This time they're fighting hard for it.

[Charlie Kirk]

And Elon Omar doesn't help the Democrats cause she is so outside of the mainstream of Minnesota voters. And it's really. Minnesota is the greatest example of how conservatives play offense in the Trump era where Democrat farmer, labor unions, they call themselves dfl. They used to be the most liberal left wing voters. The Garrison Keillor types. Right? Oh, little house. Little home. Little house on the. No Home companion. Right. Little home companion. Anyway, NPR show and all those guys love Trump. Now you go up to the Iron Range and they all love Trump. Please, Sean.

[Sean Spicer]

I got people that drive around Minnesota and I hate when people say this in a campaign. So I hate that I'm actually saying it. But they'll say, sean, I was just in Minnesota. I've seen more signs than anywhere before. And I'm like, but the point isn't that there are signs or not signs that they used to not be there and they are now.

[Charlie Kirk]

And that's a good point. Yard signs don't vote. I'm actually a believer in yard signs. I get, I get in little fights with consultants all the time. Like yard signs don't matter. I'm like, I think they matter. Okay, I can make an argument why they matter. They motivates your base. It actually get. I don't own a yard sign business. I'm just a yard sign peddler. I'm a big believer in yards. I always have been. So Sean, let's break, let's break it down then. I mean, Florida, I actually think Trump's going to win. I think as of today, Trump wins Florida. Arizona. We're headquartered in Arizona. Turning Point Action, Turning Point usa. We're on the ground. I do think we win Arizona, it's going to be tight. The rural areas. CD1 we're going to run up the score. Wickenburg, Tucson. We're going to lose. It's all About Mesa and Chandler, though, it's all about the East Valley and Phenix. It's about Mormons. That Jeff Flake has completely poisoned the well in that whole part of Arizona. Scottsdale's a little troublesome. Gilbert's going to be. We're going to run up the score there. The West Valley, Peoria. And that's the question I want to ask you, Sean. The one demographic that's troubling is old people. And I don't mean that as a pejorative. Some people say you can't say old people. Ok, senior citizens. So let's just go to the positives of the Trump era. Trump's going to do better with younger voters. I think we've played a role in that. I really do it. Turning Point action and what we do at the podcast, Hispanics, blacks, all actually trending really well. But senior citizens are a problem. Why?

[Sean Spicer]

Well, so here's first of all, just to explain why. It's because all those groups, when you look at them, don't make up the biggest. They make up a disproportionately smaller amount of the overall electorate. Seniors are the biggest voting block. So if you win all those other ones or improve yourself.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no, for sure. I mean, why are we struggling with seniors? That's what I mean.

[Sean Spicer]

Oh, no, no, I get it. But I think that the point to your audience is to make sure that they understand that, like, they're not created equal. Seniors are the largest block. But you're right. Cause in Florida alone right now, the latest polls, which I am not a big fan of the public polls, but the reality is he was, his exit poll was plus 14 last cycle. He's up plus 5 now. That's not enough if you're in Florida to win a state that he won by 1.2%. That being said, I think for a lot of seniors, especially senior women, it comes down to the tone, tenor and style. And they look and they say, oh, those aren't the values that I grew up on. And we have to get through to them the importance of the binary choice and the policies. Many of these people still remember Russia and the Soviet Union, and we've got to get through that. This is the communist, the socialism that the Democratic Party is talking about is what these people have fought against their entire life. This is what they, they were against. And now this is what we, the direction that we're moving in. But again, I think that that's what, not what the choice has been given them. And I think that that's what the campaign needs to say. They did a phenomenal job in 2016, making it a binary choice saying Hillary Clinton's policies.

[Charlie Kirk]

I completely agree.

[Sean Spicer]

And so they gotta do it again and to really focus in and target these senior voters. But that's why Florida's in play. I'm telling you, as close as Florida's been, if Trump was up where he was with seniors in 2016, he wins Florida by four.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes, that's right. Seniors are the question mark. And it's really interesting. I had a roundtable with some friends yesterday and they said, what's the future of the party? Look, I say we're actually trending better with demographics that I would have thought. I mean, we have blacks coming our way, we have Hispanics, we have. What's really interesting, we are dominating 40 to 55 year old women. 40 to 55 year old women that have kids in college or late high school in the incredible. Now, some are suburban women that don't like Trump that much, but they are skewing our direction. 30 to 40 year old women, not great. 18 to 30 year old women, not great. But younger voters, I'm telling you, the numbers are going to come out. Trump is going to overperform with young voters 18 to 22, like no one could expect. They have no enthusiasm for Biden. So here's the question and just kind of political science part of me is really interested is that on campus voter registration has plummeted. On campus voting is non existent. So you kind of that whole base of the Democrat Party that goes under. If Trump can close the gap with seniors, he wins the election. I'm convinced of it.

[Sean Spicer]

Remember, because of COVID a lot of these folks aren't on campus. And that takes a lot of these urban areas where they were getting out the vote off the table. Now the question is, do they vote at home? Maybe. But I don't think they're gonna have the same mechanism that's there. You can't gather it up on the quad where the students are gonna say, okay guys, we're all gonna go vote now.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, Those kind of clusters of voting have completely disappeared. And I think that the virus plays a role in how a lot of these seniors are looking at Donald Trump. They think that he's mismanaged it or they really believe the virus is one of the biggest threats now. And I'm not saying it's not a threat, I'm just thinking that it's, that is a compartmentalized view of the American society right now. I think that that is a single variable and variant analysis. Where you have the economy, you have health and welfare, you have all sorts of things. And besides the virus, can you comment on how you talk about in your book Leading America? Everyone go check out a copy right now. How the President handled the Chinese coronavirus.

[Sean Spicer]

Well, well, look, I think at the beginning of this, the President communicated it very clearly. What? The thing with where the President, I think has misstepped is this. It is a novel virus. It changes. We're adapting. That's not his fault. Right? We learn new things every day. The doctors initially told us that masks didn't do any good. Then they told us they did. Then they taught me. And I think that I get it. Like, it's new. It's something that we're all evolving to. And the President, I think, should embrace that and just say, guys, I'm doing everything I can to eradicate this, but it's not his fault when the science changes and when people are saying, well, it's okay to protest if you're going out for certain causes, but it's not okay to go to church. It's not okay to do certain other activities. This is where the media has and the left has really screwed the American people, is that certain activities are okay and certain aren't. And that's the problem, Charlie, is that we're not. We talk about the President, all these people, he's being dishonest and isn't being straight with us. Really, to go tell people that depending on what they protest, it makes them. It's either a healthy thing or an unhealthy thing. Give me a break.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's outrageous. I want to tell you guys about Good Ranchers. You've heard me talk about it before. We just got this unbelievable order from Good Ranchers. And the meat was incredible. It was meat unlike I've ever seen before. And it was from American Ranchers, Good Ranchers. They began with the standard of bringing top quality, 100% American born, raised and harvested meat to families across America. This vision was instilled into them from their grandparents that owned community grocery stores and believed in trust, charity and family values. GoodRanchers.com partners directly with only American ranchers from across the United States to bring the highest quality meat straight to your door. Good Ranchers. With an S.com, you get 100% American raised beef right to your door. GoodRanchers.com is only American beef that's a hundred percent born and raised, harvested beef and chicken delivered straight to your door and free Shipping as always, goodranchers.com with an S your favorite meats right to your door. Perfect for grilling out or dinners at home. Go to goodranchers.com to view all their American beef and chicken packages. Use the promo code Charlie. C H A R L I e promo code charlie good ranchers.com Sean, we're talking about the 2020 election. We are in the last sprint. Your book talks about this. It's every. It's on everyone's mind there. There's a lot of complaints out there. Will Durham do anything? Rush investigation. I think all the only focus needs to be. We have to get low propensity Republicans over the age of 60 to vote for Donald Trump. I just. I just. It's that simple. Every other demographic's actually accelerating in our direction. Sean, you ran the rnc. A lot of people watch this podcast. A lot of people watch the rebroadcast of it. If you were talking directly to the Trump campaign or the president, tell us exactly what you would say. And also, please tell the people that are watching this or me knocking on doors, make the case for Trump for the demographics that we need to win over.

[Sean Spicer]

Look, he's accomplished a lot. You go through the area, figure out what people care about. But I think right now you're right. We focus on seniors. We talk about what he's doing, not just for that generation. Seniors are very selfless. They care about the next generation. They want their kids and their grandkids to do well. And so we need to talk about that American dream and what the president has done to make sure that we can continue to grow the economy, put people back to work, give them a career, retool and retrain, give people new opportunities that he did through the First Step Act. But this president has done so much to give people opportunity, and we need to focus on that and everything else. To your point, yes, I agree. Get the Durham report at some point, make sure people are held accountable. But there is not a single person that is already not voting for Donald Trump that's gonna say if that report comes out.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, now I completely agree. I agree.

[Sean Spicer]

Stay focused. And guys, if you are knocking on a door right now, if you are calling a friend, understand, as I said earlier in the podcast, that in the show here, that these states are going to be close. That friend that you dragged, that colleague that you call, the relative that you haven't talked before and say to them, this is what's at stake. You need to vote. And you need to vote for Trump Pence, because the other side. This is not a joke. What Biden is willing to do is say, I'm so. I really want to be president. I will give Kamala Harris the keys to the car. That's dangerous, folks. And if you don't get it, the problem, Charlie, is this. We lost to Obama. He put Obamacare and look at how hard it's been to dismantle. Once Biden and Harris are in for four years, it will take generations to undo what they do, if ever.

[Charlie Kirk]

You're exactly right. And Obamacare was just one of the, you know, the things that was put forward. And I tell people, look, this election is going to have generational consequences and implications in more way than one. In more ways than one. So it's leading America. Everyone check out the copy. In closing here, Sean, can you build out just for young people some of your advice? You built a very good career. You started and I heard your story when you spoke at Liberty University. Pretty humble beginnings. And you worked your way up to be press secretary for the president of the United States. What were some lessons you want to communicate to younger listeners?

[Sean Spicer]

Look, I think the biggest one is get involved, figure out what you want to do. I had some opportunities that made me realize what I didn't want to do as much as what I did want to do. But getting involved, getting your hands dirty, figuring out how to be that person that solves problems, that works later than everyone else is where it happens. I got where I am because I interned a ton of times. I put in the extra hours, I did the tasks that people didn't want to do, and I got recognized for it. When I went to the rnc, almost every single person that I hired started as an intern for us. We got to watch them. We got to see how they were motivated. We got to see their quality of work. So if you get involved, you figure out what you like and don't like. I found out through trial and error that I really like talking to the media and crafting messages as opposed to all the other stuff you can do in politics. But it was through trial and error. So go get involved, knock on some doors, write some press releases, get engaged, figure out what you like to do, what you don't like to do, and keep out searching opportunities to do that. But look, I will just say this. You've been very kind with your time in the book, pay a lot of kudos to what you and Turning Point have done, because you're absolutely right. This election and the growth in the youth vote is because of an organization like Turningpoint, you guys have gone out there in the face of all these headwinds and say, we'll go on to college campuses, we'll go to the quad, we'll have that civil discussion. And guess what? We're going to present you with actual facts. And that's what people need to know. And Charlie Kirk did this from the ground up. So if you have an idea, if your school doesn't have a Turning Point chapter found one. Get involved, get going. And that's how the system changes, by you getting involved.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's exactly right. Well, thank you. We appreciate those kind words, Sean. And you know, getting engaged and getting involved and getting into the grassroots is exactly what's going to save our country. And I had someone ask the question, well, what do I do? Just get started. Start something. Knock on doors, make phone calls. Inaction is giving the power, the keys to power, to the other side. And I really believe that if the silent majority, we use that term quite often, if every silent majority member made a phone call, got someone to the polls, chipped in $5 and wasn't just a spectator, but it was an activist in this fight, we would win this election. Sean, it's been great leading America. Everyone pick out a copy. Thank you for what you've done for our country. Everyone check out charliekirk.com subscribe to our podcast. Type in Charlie Kirkstray, your podcast provider, and as always, thank you guys so much for listening. Sean, thanks so much. See you soon. What a great conversation that was with Sean Spicer. If you guys want to win a signed copy of the MAGA doctrine, we are giving out five signed copies just for this episode. Just show us that you are subscribe to the Charlie Kirk Show. Give us a five star review and say that you listened to Tron Spicer's episode. You want to get involved with Turning Point USA mentioned in this episode? Go to tpusa.com, email us freedom charliekirk.com and finally, please consider supporting [e-mail] support. Thanks so much, everybody. God bless.