Islam v. America, Gen Z v. Property Taxes

Summary

The Charlie Kirk Show

Episode: Islam v. America, Gen Z v. Property Taxes
Date: November 19, 2025
Host: Charlie Kirk (posthumously), Producers Andrew Colvett and Blake Neff
Featured Guest: Sagar Enjeti (Breaking Points)

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Main Theme Overview

This episode of The Charlie Kirk Show splits sharply into two segments. The first half scrutinizes what the hosts describe as the growing influence of Islam in America, focusing on recent events in Dearborn, Michigan, and legislative developments in Texas. The second half brings in guest Sagar Enjeti for a robust debate on the campaign to abolish or reduce property taxes, especially in red states like Florida and Texas, and the generational implications of such fiscal moves.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Islam vs. America — Dearborn, Michigan Protests & Policy Moves

The “Fracturing Right” and Post-Election Tensions

• After recent challenging elections for conservatives in Virginia and New Jersey, the hosts note increased tensions and "sniping" on the right. Charlie Kirk, they recall, always emphasized unity and identifying shared threats. (02:01–03:18)

Flashpoint in Dearborn

• Large-scale protests erupted: “Hundreds, maybe a thousand” clashed in the streets, including the involvement of Jan 6 prisoner Jake Lang, with “Christians vs. Muslims in the streets.” (03:18–04:57)
• The protests were sparked by concerns over Islamic migration and influence in American towns, an issue Charlie Kirk and team often observed during travels, particularly in the UK.

Governor Abbott’s Executive Order

• Texas Governor Greg Abbott designated the Muslim Brotherhood and CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) as “foreign terrorist and transnational criminal organizations,” barring them from acquiring land in Texas and allowing legal action to shut them down. (03:50–04:57)
  • Quote:
    “Today I designate the Muslim Brotherhood and Council on America Islamic Relations as foreign terrorist and transnational criminal organizations. This bans them from buying or acquiring land in Texas and authorizes the Attorney General to sue to shut them down. Big moment for sure.” — Andrew Colvett (03:36–04:35)

CAIR’s Involvement and Islamic Influence in Policy

• CAIR allegedly funneled money to agitators on U.S. campuses through the “Champions of Justice Fund,” supporting anti-Israel protests, with the claim that its advocacy strengthens a “left-wing nonprofit arm” that covers for disruptive, even illegal behavior.
• The hosts contend CAIR launders “radical Islamic values...in left-coded language” as civil rights activism.
  • Quote:
    “CAIR has alleged ties to Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, including funding terror designated groups...They promote Sharia-aligned policies and public institutions.” — Andrew Colvett (06:28–07:51)
  • Examples cited: Halal meals in schools, imams performing marriages, adjusting exam schedules for Islamic holidays, modifying jail procedures.

Islam’s Compatibility with the West

• Core claim: Islam as a political ideology is “incompatible” with Western principles, especially when political influence is sought—not just personal faith practiced.
  • Quote:
    “On the macro, Islam is not compatible with the West. And we have clips of Charlie saying these things.” — Blake Neff (07:56–09:11)
  • Cut to previous Charlie Kirk segment for emphasis (09:11–09:59):

    “The spiritual battle is coming to the west and the enemies are wokeism or Marxism combining with Islamism to go after what we call the American way of life... We want the American way of life, which is by the way, Christendom.”

Notable Quotes/Clips:

• “That Muslim call to prayer, once you start hearing it, it’s at 4am and they play it very loudly because they view that as an assertive aggress[ion], an assertive play to show we are taking over this place. We are terraforming America to resemble the Middle East.” — Blake Neff (09:59–10:22)
• About the climate in Dearborn:
  • Muslims confront Christian protesters:
    “He hopes Jake gets Charlie Kirked. You hope I get Charlie Kirked.” — Charlie Kirk (12:28–12:38)
  • Mayor Abdullah Hamoud labels a resident an “Islamophobe” and says,
    “You do not belong in this city... As mayor, you are not welcome here. The day you move out...I will launch a parade celebrating that fact.” — As attributed by Andrew Colvett (13:13–13:27)
• Bridget Gabriel:
  • “42 Muslim candidates won elected office...across at least nine states.” (13:59–14:24)
• Islamic Imam outlines strategy:
  • “Let’s work towards a Muslim mayor. Next election, nominate people for the school board...local township. Begin the demographics change.” (14:24–14:47)
  • Hosts argue the plan is to “conquer” by converting, outbreeding, and winning local offices.

Islam as Political Ideology

• Sagar prompts: Why is Islam more than a religion?
  • Blake Neff:
    “Islam from the start is political...If you are a devout Muslim, you are explicitly required to pursue those laws...There’s no tension, like there would be with Christianity...Islam was a conquest thing from the beginning...now in the 21st century, they are very aware it can be done demographically.” (15:04–17:19)
• The episode draws a sharp line between fellowship with individual Muslims (“nice Muslims”) and a perceived macro-level political threat from Islam.

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2. Gen Z v. Property Taxes – Debate with Sagar Enjeti

Introduction to the Debate

• Sagar Enjeti is welcomed as a “contrarian thinker” (18:55–19:14) to address the growing push in red states to either abolish or deeply curtail property taxes, particularly for older homeowners.

Sagar Enjeti’s Argument for Property Taxes

• Historical context:

  • Property taxes are the oldest American tax, existing in 14 of 15 colonies in 1796; seen by the Founders (e.g., Jefferson) as the “most righteous” tax because it tied investment in community to civic responsibility. (19:14–21:03)
  • Quote:
    “Property taxes, in many ways [are] the most American tax that exists...Thomas Jefferson actually believed that property tax was the most righteous tax that could exist here.” — Sagar Enjeti (19:22–20:42)

• Civic and practical reasons:

  • Abolishing property taxes severs the local connection between taxpayer and communal services (schools, police), risking centralized control and disconnecting citizens from governance.
  • Carve-outs for older homeowners risk shifting tax burdens to younger families/destroying the social compact.

Counterpoints & Listener Reaction

• Blake Neff notes the volume of pushback received:

  • “The discussions we have had on this topic have been volcanic...they are mostly hostile to you and me, Sagar.” (21:03–21:15)
  • Stresses that the tax burden shift to Gen Z is “almost inevitable” if property taxes are abolished, leading to higher income or sales taxes instead.

• Sagar: In Florida, abolishing homestead property taxes would leave an $18.5 billion funding gap, likely to be offset by regressive sales taxes or increased costs elsewhere (22:55–24:30).

• Societal compact: Older generations previously paid into the system; now, property tax rollbacks are seen as abandoning that agreement and leaving younger generations without support.

Wealth and Homeownership Gaps

• Demographics show homeownership and wealth heavily concentrated among boomers and older Gen X, while younger generations face severe hurdles (32:19–33:57).
  • Middle ground proposals (means testing property taxes, freezing them at retirement) are discussed but Sagar opposes them, citing the California model, where Prop 13’s property tax freeze contributed to a dysfunctional housing market and locked-in wealth disparities (33:57–37:10).
  • Quote:
    “Nobody is advocating for anybody being kicked out of a house...but we are accepting market realities where...large assessment has also, frankly, quite largely increase[d] your own personal wealth.” — Sagar Enjeti (33:57–37:10)

The “Generational Warfare” Warning

• Blake Neff pleads for empathy and realism:
  • “We are not pursuing generational warfare. We’re not attacking anyone who owns a home, anyone who’s retired. We are reminding people we are all in a country and we have people who have the biggest problems, which are young people. And this would ignite generational warfare to pursue this. And I think Charlie would tell us not to do that.” (37:25–37:49)
• Sagar closes:
  • “That’s well said, Blake.” (37:49)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “One of the problems facing America is this rising tide of Islam.” — Blake Neff (03:00)
• “Islam is incompatible with the West.” — Charlie Kirk (frequently referenced/clip at 09:11)
• Dearborn anti-Christian sentiment:
  “You hope I get Charlie Kirked.” — On-the-street protester, referenced by Charlie Kirk and E. Sagar (12:32–12:40)
• Sagar:
  “Property taxes, in many ways, [are] the most American tax that exists… Thomas Jefferson actually believed that property tax was the most righteous tax that could exist here.” (19:22–20:42)
• Blake Neff:
  “If you’re going to just abolish or radically cut property taxes or make special carve outs, if you’re not actually attacking government spending directly, that bill is going to be paid another way...” (31:33–32:19)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:01 | “Islam vs. America” – Dearborn protests intro | | 03:36 | Abbott designates CAIR/Muslim Brotherhood as terrorist organizations | | 04:57 | CAIR’s activism and ties to disruption; leftist cover for Islamic causes | | 09:11 | Charlie Kirk on Islam, West, and the American way of life | | 12:28 | Protesters: “Charlie Kirked” as death threat | | 13:13 | Mayor Hamoud: Islamophobe resident “not welcome here” | | 13:59 | Bridget Gabriel: Surge in Muslim candidates | | 15:04 | Islam as a political ideology explained | | 18:55 | Sagar Enjeti segment — property tax debate begins | | 21:03 | Listener responses: property tax debate backlash | | 22:55 | Florida policy example — impact of abolishing property taxes | | 32:19 | Demographic data — generational wealth and homeownership | | 37:25 | Blake Neff warns against generational warfare |

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Section Summaries

Islam vs. America

• Segment concerns escalating tension between cultural enclaves in America, especially post–October 7 events, and risks of “Islamification” via migration and local politics.
• Cites policy moves (like Abbott’s order in Texas) and cultural skirmishes (Dearborn protests) as evidence of broader trends.
• Frames Islam as inherently political and incompatible with liberal democracy, often returning to Charlie Kirk’s past framing and language.

Property Taxes and Generational Fairness

• Sagar Enjeti robustly defends property taxes as an American institution tying citizens to their communities and school systems.
• Warns that the abolition or reduction of property taxes would invariably shift the burden to younger, less wealthy generations, potentially igniting real generational conflict and failing to address core economic issues for families.
• Various proposals for middle ground receive skepticism, with California’s experience as a cautionary tale.
• Hosts repeatedly emphasize the need to restore the social compact and avoid stoking resentment between age groups.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Charlie Kirk Show juxtaposes what it sees as two existential threats to the American way of life: the erosion of conservative-Christian identity by the political spread of Islam and demographic change, and the risk of alienating or disadvantaging Generation Z through misplaced fiscal reforms on property taxes. The tone is unapologetically combative, pugnaciously conservative, and framed around culture war imperatives.

The debate with Sagar Enjeti is lively and policy-focused, with all sides emphasizing the urgent need to restore the social contract across generations before America faces deeper instability, either from within or without.

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro American student organization in the country, fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You gotta stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a Point USA College chapter. Go start a Turning Point USA High School chapter. Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade. Most important decision I ever made in my life. And I encourage you to do the same. Here I am, Lord.

[Blake Neff]

Use me.

[Charlie Kirk]

Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. The Charlie Kirk show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold, the leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends and viewers.

[Andrew Colvett]

All right, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show. I'm Andrew Colvett, executive producer of this fine show. And I am joined by Blake Neff, another producer here. Our not so secret weapon. We actually, before this, had an interview with Megyn Kelly. I encourage you guys to check that out. Both Blake and I did that. It was good fun. Yeah, it was great.

[Blake Neff]

It was good.

[Andrew Colvett]

It was an honor to be there. I mean, I'd sat very many early. So our shows are at similar times. Right. So you have to pre record on certain days and you have to wait for that schedule to align. But I remember multiple times, you know, setting Charlie up with the interview with Megan and very early mornings, you know, so it was an honor to be with Megan. And then of course, Megan and Erica are going to be doing the tour stop in Glendale, Arizona on Saturday. And as a matter of fact, I think Jack's doing it in Bakersfield with Megan on Thursday. Thursday. Nice.

[E. Sagar]

Nice.

[Andrew Colvett]

I believe. So today's opening story is gonna be Islam versus America. There's a lot of these stories that are kind of coming together all at one time coalescing. And I thought it was really apropos because, Blake, there's a lot of talk right now online about the fracturing of the right or that different groups are chipping at each other.

[Blake Neff]

There's people, we like to argue, always frank and. But just especially we'll be. We'll admit it. The elections in Virginia, New Jersey were challenging. They weren't results we were hoping for. And always after that, that ends up with some sniping. Some blaming, and then there's other stuff that's been going on. You know, we don't even want to name names and, like, dive into it. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot of stuff Charlie fought so hard against. Charlie all cared about looking forward, building the coalition, finding the common ground where there was disagreement.

[Andrew Colvett]

Absolutely.

[Blake Neff]

And we were talking just before this show, what would Charlie be wanting to do right now? And he wouldn't be wallowing in disagreements. He would be thinking, what can unite us? And one of those things he cared so much about uniting us on before his death was, hey, guys, one of the problems facing America is this rising tide of Islam.

[Andrew Colvett]

Absolutely. And so what we saw, and I think it's a really important, I think, event, cultural event, but I think it's a precursor of things that we are probably going to see more of, unfortunately. And that was in Dearborn, Michigan, where you had, let's say, hundreds. I've heard as many as a thousand. I'm not sure on the total numbers. We couldn't verify it, but protesters that came out, they announced that they were gonna do this protest on November 10th. And then they said, we're gonna do it on November 18th. So they only had like eight days or so between the announcement and the protest. They went to Dearborn and there was clashes in the streets yesterday. Apparently there was a J6 prisoner, Jake Lang, who was involved in kind of. I think it got more heated as soon as he got involved. But they were just trying to say, hey, listen, this is America. Dearborn is kind of ground zero for. It's probably a terrible expression to use when we're talking about the Islamification of America, but it's ground zero for this mass migration that's happening within the west, largely especially in the uk. You and Charlie visited the UK and that was one of your largest observations. But now it's happening in Dearborn and we've got mom Donnie as the new mayor in New York. A lot of things are coming together. And then yesterday, Blake, Governor Greg Abbott went on X, went on Twitter and said, today I designate the Muslim Brotherhood and Council on America Islamic Relations as foreign terrorist and transnational criminal organizations. This bans them from buying or acquiring land in Texas and authorizes the Attorney General to sue to shut them down. Big moment for sure.

[Blake Neff]

For sure. And care. It gets brought up. So it is an Islamic advocacy arm in the United States. But it's long had friction where it gets. You inevitably get involved with some shady stuff. And so something that actually was just reported Yesterday in the New York Post, the California chapter of CARE, they were cutting $1,000 checks through something called the Champions of Justice Fund. And what those thousand dollar checks were going to, among others were agitators on US College campuses, the ones who were shutting down entire campuses, harassing other students, taking over buildings as part of their anti Israel protests, which in early 24, which we'll be frank, frequently spiraled into just outright violent, anti Semitic disruptive behavior. And they were getting funded by care. And that gets at the heart of what we've talked about also with Antifa, which is there are these left wing nonprofit arms whose purpose is to provide ideological cover and financial support for barely legal or just aggressively illegal behavior by their more rank and file individuals. And you have to break these networks up. You can't just have financial subsidies endlessly going to people who are terrorists. Terrorist sympathizers, rioters, disruptors, the people who are, who actually aren't winning at the ballot box. And so they impose what they want through the streets and through the courts rather than ever winning an election.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, well, I mean, Care, for you know what it's worth, they call themselves a social justice or civil rights advocacy. We're a civil rights organization, which is, by the way, it's just par for the course. They're going to launder radical Islamic values ideas and frankly people, because they're very in favor of mass migration from Islamic countries to the west, they're going to launder those ideas in left coded language. Right. So they're going to wrap themselves in the ideas and language of the left in order to destabilize the countries. But CAIR has alleged ties to Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, including funding terror designated groups. They oppose President Trump's travel restrictions and travel bans in Trump 1.0 and Trump 2.0, calling it religious based discrimination. They had the CAIR's executive director, Nihad Awad in 2023 express joy over the October 7 Hamas attacks on Israel. I was happy to see Palestinians break the siege, was what he said. They promote Sharia aligned policies and public institutions. So for example, because we're talking about Texas, look what CAIR has done in Texas. CAIR has advocated for accommodations like halal meals in schools. They've advocated to adjust exam schedules for Islamic holidays, allowing imams to perform marriages.

[Blake Neff]

They do that in. I think they already do that in New York. I think they get Eid off. That's kind of related to Ramadan.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, yes, exactly. So blue districts, you would assume this, but what Governor Abbott has Done in Texas, they're going to get sued. Kerr's going to going to sue them. Other people are going to sue them. But what he has done in Texas, it should be codified by the state legislature. This should be as strong of a political foot forward as you could make, right? Because governors, executive orders from the president, they're all less firm than when you pass them through legislation, right? They're less reliable, stable. But this is the other thing. Look it, they've care has even modified jail procedures to align with Islamic practices. So Charlie used to say this Islam is incompatible with the West. And you have to take this from a macro to a micro. On the micro level, you are going to meet nice Muslims. Okay? That is not the argument that Charlie made. That is not the argument that we will make on the show. You will sometimes obviously meet people that are wonderful people of all backgrounds and walks of life. However, on the macro, Islam is not compatible with the West. And we have clips of Charlie saying these things. By the way, if we, if we want to throw it away, let's do, let's do 190.

[Charlie Kirk]

The spiritual battle is coming to the west and the enemies are wokeism or Marxism combining with Islamism to go after what we call the American way of life. And the American way of life is very simple. I want to be able to get married, buy a home, have kids, allow them to ride their bike till the sun goes down, send them to a good school, have a low crime neighborhood, not to have my kid be taught the lesbian, gay, transgender garbage in their school. While also, while also not having them have to hear the Muslim call to prayer five times a day. That's important. We want the American way of life, which is by the way, Christendom.

[Andrew Colvett]

Amen.

[Blake Neff]

I never quite got him to leave the tea out of Christendom. But such is life. Such as life. But we'll have more on this. But that Muslim call to prayer, once you start hearing it, it's at 4am and they play it very loudly because they view that as an assertive aggress, an assertive play to show we are taking over this place. We are terraforming America to resemble the Middle East.

[Andrew Colvett]

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[Charlie Kirk]

Said he hopes Jake gets Charlie Kirk. You hope I get Charlie Kirk.

[E. Sagar]

You hope he gets killed because you don't like him?

[Andrew Colvett]

What?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[E. Sagar]

You hope he gets killed because you don't like him.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[Blake Neff]

I suppose we'll be hearing that one for a long time, won't we?

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah.

[Blake Neff]

Which, you know what? I hate it. But at the same time, there's something satisfying or useful when the mask comes off when they just admit what they want.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah. Hopefully people notice and you see just. Yeah. How depraved they are. I totally agree. Here's Dearborn Mayor Abdullah Hamoud. To a resident, you do not belong in this city. Islamophobe. Get out. 225. I mean, Hezbollah, you know, bombed the.

[E. Sagar]

Embassy in Beirut, including Many Americans.

[Andrew Colvett]

So I just feel it's quite inappropriate.

[E. Sagar]

You are an Islamophobe, and although you live here, I want you to know.

[Charlie Kirk]

As mayor, you are not welcome here.

[E. Sagar]

And the day you move out of the city will be the day that I launch a parade celebrating the fact that you moved out of the city.

[Andrew Colvett]

Geez, good people. And this is what they do. This is what I want to make very clear. Their whole goal is to infiltrate mayor by mayor, elected office by elected office, and then they're going to. Essentially, their plan is to outbreed. They were gonna immigrate and they're gonna outbreed Americans and Westerners more broadly. And I wanna play this clip, actually, I believe. Yeah. This is Bridget Gabriel. She's been on the show before with Charlie, and she talks about how successful Muslims were in these past elections.

[E. Sagar]

Play cut 220, 42 Muslim candidates won elected office. 42, 76 ran and 42 got elected. So while all eyes were on Mamdani in New York, the Muslims were able.

[Blake Neff]

To sweep such victories for the first time in American history across at least.

[E. Sagar]

Nine states occupying positions.

[Andrew Colvett]

And last clip I'm going to play in this segment, but this is an Islamic imam explaining how they plan to take over America. And it ties into that last clip. Play cut 222. Let's work towards a Muslim mirror. Next election that comes in, nominate people for the school board of education. Next election that comes here, nominate people for the local township. Begin the demographics change.

[E. Sagar]

People converted.

[Andrew Colvett]

There's a big, huge conversion going on in this country. So that's demographic change. Mayor by mayor, I mean, this is their plan. It is a conquering. Maybe, Blake. That's the question. Explain why Islam is more than a religion, it's actually a political ideology.

[Blake Neff]

Well, it is. It is. The thing about Islam is, in contrast to Christianity, if you know, if you read the Gospels, if you read the early Christians, there, you know, there can be places that are very Christian, but it doesn't. Jesus doesn't actually talk a lot about how you're supposed to organize a state, how you're supposed to organize a government. It is mostly about individuals or faith communities. Islam from the start is political. Muhammad is the political leader of the first Muslims. They have the concept of a caliph who is a political leader of all Muslims. Islam has from the very beginning, specific rules. How should an Islamic state be organized? And what this means is, is you have far more explicit rules of. This is what you should endeavor to do in your country. That is what Sharia is. Sharia means Islamic, like law according to Islamic principles. Islam, if you are devout Muslim, you are explicitly required to pursue those laws. And so if you're a good Muslim, you are going to be saying, we should pursue Sharia. They might disagree about exactly what it is, but there's no tension. Like there would be with Christianity. Like with Christianity, we would have a lot of reasons to say, oh, you can't compel certain things on everybody. Or there's just no obvious way. You're supposed to set up a Christian state, but with Islam there, no such tension exists. You are, in fact, supposed to set up an Islamic government. You're supposed to impose special taxes on people who are not Muslims. You are. I mean, I think they're even supposed to, like, dress differently. And there's all of these things. And so there's this vast history for Muslims to view. Oh, I am part of. And also, it was a conquest thing from the beginning that the faith was created and rapidly conquered the area around it to spread Islam. So they have an entire history of we can expand, we can take over an area, and then we can impose Islamic law, Islamic norms on that place. In the past, they did it with actual warfare. We are now in the 21st century, and they are very aware it can be done demographically. You'll have Islamic thinkers in their own private, you know, sermons and podcasts. They will say, we are going to conquer the west with our wombs. That's the wording they'll use.

[Andrew Colvett]

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[Charlie Kirk]

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[E. Sagar]

Thank you guys. Thanks for having me.

[Andrew Colvett]

You are a contrarian thinker on a lot of topics, I think, and you always make it interesting, whether that's Daylight savings time or in this case, property taxes. And you and Blake, I think, are of the same mind here. What is your take on this push in Florida to eliminate property taxes?

[E. Sagar]

Yeah, first of all, just thank you guys for having me. My first time joining the program since Charlie's passing. I just want to commend you both for the job that you guys are doing. Very, very sorry that Charlie and I never got to have the fight about Daylight Savings Time that we were once promised. So RIP Charlie, we will one day be able to have that. But on property tax in general, there's been a new push by Governor DeSantis. This is picking up on quite a few red states, Governor Abbott and others in Texas pushing explicitly to either abolish property tax and in a more objectionable case, in my opinion, specifically carve out property tax exemptions for older homeowners. And something that I'm really passionate about is defending the very idea of property tax, very specific. Also being able to critique individual school districts because I believe that it's very important to preserve the local connection of the taxpayer to the community. And one of my more recent objections right now specifically, is that it actually centralizes control of education, of police, public services and others at the state and the federal level. And if you really think back to the founding of our republic, property taxes, in many ways the most American tax that exists. 14 out of the 15 colonies had property taxes by 1796. Thomas Jefferson actually believed that property tax was the most righteous tax that could exist here in the United States. And so I'm concerned more specifically at a very high level that this is largely a giveaway to the wealthy landowner class, which, yes, also disproportionately happens to be much older, and that it is not one that prioritizes younger families, turnover and other healthy elements of a housing market, which remains, as you guys know, as Charlie knew as well, one of the central pain points for the burgeoning American family. And if we care about families caring about housing, housing policy, school district funding is something that we all really need to think very deeply about. And I just think this goes in the wrong direction.

[Blake Neff]

Yeah. So I just want to say we always invite response from our, from our listeners. Freedom. Charlie Kirk.com and I will say the discussions we have had on this topic have been volcanic. We've gotten a ton of emails about it and I'll be frank, they are mostly hostile to, to you and to you and me. Sager. That a lot of people, you know, we got a lot of very authentic stories. People talking about how, you know, they had to work and save their entire lives to be able their homes or how they are, you know, there are seniors who are economically struggling right now and they feel singled out and it's really bad. And I don't want to downplay any of those things. And I want to emphasize we are not engaging in generational warfare on the old. I am not advocating dispossess the old. We're not saying the old are villains. But, but what we have to recognize is if we're going to change our tax system to make American life more affordable, that's the goal of this. The goal is fighting for affordability. We have to think who benefits most and also who is actually hurting the most in America. And what, you know, Sagar is Charlie talked about this all the time. The people who are in the most dire situation in America are the young. They feel like they have no path forward to what their parents and grandparents had access to. And as a result, they're becoming very radical on the left and on the right in many cases. And so I think it would be disastrous for us to pursue a tax policy of abolishing, of just abolishing property tax when it is almost certain that this will mean raising the tax burden that is paid by young working families. Because the offset to this is almost inevitably going to be higher income taxes or higher sales taxes. You know, it's like you squeeze the balloon somewhere and it will expand elsewhere. And so we have to think where is that balloon going to expand?

[E. Sagar]

Right. And let me just back up. Let's talk about Florida specifically. Right. So the Florida Policy Institute, you know, estimates there's some 1.5 million Floridians who live in school districts where actually 50% of their funding, over 50% of that funding comes specifically from the Homestead property tax. That's about 5% of the Floridian population. But you have some $18.5 billion in shortfall that an exemption of homestead property tax would happen. Now, as Blake said, inevitably, especially in a state like Florida where you have no income tax, the money is going to have to be made up from somewhere else. So that could impose like a tourist tax if you guys have ever stayed in Florida. You know, different rates for hotel rooms if you're a Florida resident, if you're not. And of course, you know, it's not like the Disney vacation for a family member is already not exorbitantly expensive. But secondary to that is almost certainly have to be made up in some other form. Sales tax is usually the way that this goes about. And you know, one of the reasons I'm really passionate about this is I grew up in the home state of Texas. And I think it's really important to say that one of the things I'm proud of is that so many Americans who live in unaffordable hellholes like where I am here in the DMV where child care is $150,000 a year on average, actually literally where I live, where the median home values are well over $1 million, I think that's disastrous. I think it's the most anti family place in the world. The median homebuyer around here is some 40 or 50 years old. I'm very proud people are moving to my home state of Texas to raise families for affordable housing. But what recently happened is what we took is that family dream and instead we basically pass off the societal. The societal compact isn't. We're all in this together. The silent generation paid property taxes for boomers whenever their children were going to school. And now by abdicating that responsibility and explicitly trying to take school taxes out of seniors, and I understand, you know, about the cost of living increase, et cetera, for Social Security not necessarily keeping up. But it is important to note that this idea about so called fixed income is one that actually does apply across the entire income spectrum. Blake, I thought you made a really excellent point on the show earlier where when a young person who lives anywhere and sees a 30 to 40% increase in their rental income, you know, the median conservative argument to that is, well, I'm sorry, you know, the free market has consequences and you're certainly going to have to move. And you know, the point about the societal compact is when we also start to talk about Medicare and Social Security and the entitlement funding which currently is being outflowed being paid for by the younger generation. I just think it's important for that compact that we all explicitly pay into and support the system. And I don't think there's anything more important than supporting younger families right now who as Blake said, ultimately tax policy is a zero sum game. Like the funding does actually do need, does need to come from somewhere. And largely the vast majority of Americans live in states right now where they have older, you know, they have exemptions for older homeowners and increasingly pass the buck to the younger homeowner, the younger family who is having a lot of difficulty making ends meet right now. And that is my singular mission, if there is one, is to try and make it to advocate for policy which will actually make it easier for them.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, I mean I think this is, you know, I think everybody's heart is in the right place. We want more families, we want more marriages, we want to restore the social compact for Gen Z. My one pushback here and I want to. I was not aware that Thomas Jefferson said it was the most righteous of all the taxes.

[E. Sagar]

One of the most righteous.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah. Please explain if you know why he said that, what his rationale was for that. I'm just curious.

[E. Sagar]

Yeah, at the time of the colonies, it's very important to remember and you guys discussed this as well. The idea of a general income tax or a capital gains tax or any of these other taxes was anathema really. A lot of it was alcohol taxes, like a Pigouvian sin tax, it was tariffs and it was property tax tax. Property owners were the only ones who could vote at that time. But very importantly it was seen as a way as the property owner themselves is benefiting from the social benefit of what it would pay for, let's say from the mail system to eventually evolved into cops, into schools. And that's why 14 out of the 15 colonies by 1796 had a property tax on the books. In fact there used to be something called a general property tax which we don't even have anymore. And so I really do understand how difficult it can be, you know, when you look at your mortgage and especially with the so called reassessments of home malviews and more importantly people saying I don't feel like I'm getting enough for my property tax. But my real message to you is you have the ability to change that on a level more than any other. I mean if you live in the state of Florida, there's what millions of people who live in the state of Florida, the realistically your ability to Campaign and to change policy at the state level is very low. And you know, issues that you guys have talked about here on the show. One reason why parents felt so much courage to come and speak up, let's say, against critical race theory, you know, transgenderism, was because, you know, as taxpayers, we pay into this, we're directly funding it, and we have that access. And by removing that, you actually really do remove the social compact between the parent and the locality and the ability to influence turnover and ultimately to govern our own destiny, which is what local government really is all about. From our police force, you know, from electing sheriff, like so much of this is actually baked deeply into the American spirit. And so long way to answer your question is it was about localism and it was fundamentally about community. And it was seen as both a way to raise revenue, but also to turn people into good citizens and to recognize the ability for us to influence where those policies can, which direction they could go.

[Blake Neff]

Well, I should, I want to flag this only because we did get an email recently pointing this out from Heather in Florida who says there are proposals where it would eliminate the ad valorem property tax, except for school funding, which might be, I think it'd probably be a superior way other than the fact that, you know, obviously our public school funding is one of the most wasteful things we have.

[Andrew Colvett]

But I have another historical question for you, Sager. I'm curious because we're talking about the landed gentry were the only ones that could vote back at America's founding. Was it just a property tax on working farms and productive pieces of land that made a revenue? Or was it actually a property tax on if you owned a home in a township somewhere?

[E. Sagar]

So it was colony by colony. And it was also what Blake is saying is about the general property tax. So it wasn't just necessarily on that. It was also on the amount of stuff that you actually owned and it's overall assessed value. But it was, it was variable and different a little bit. And from some of the reading that I have done, I do think it's important though to address that point and to where we're talking about, you know, today, which is one of the reasons why I think this is really important is because the homeownership class largely is, you know, on the older side of the spectrum. And one of the things that I think all of us on this show are trying to get into is how can we make it so that younger families can afford homes. And so ultimately, when we have so many policy proposals which largely are going to benefit some of the older Americans which are, you know, rapidly appreciated their own housing stock, which, you know, if you look at their stock portfolios or overall wealth generation. We should also be looking perhaps at inverse proposals, let's say, oh well, if we're going to, let's say give exemptions or others, then we need to look at where does it encourage, let's say a first time home buyer and others. And I think unfortunately, like I said in my home state of Texas, we're going in the opposite direction. This is Lane Schoenberger, chief investment officer.

[Andrew Colvett]

And founding partner of Y Refi. It has been an honor and a privilege to partner with Turningpoint and for.

[E. Sagar]

Charlie to endorse us. His endorsement means the world to us.

[Andrew Colvett]

And we look forward to continuing our partnership with Turningpoint for years to come.

[E. Sagar]

Now hear Charlie in his own words.

[Andrew Colvett]

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[Charlie Kirk]

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[Andrew Colvett]

I love this tweet from you. Sager you go. Property tax is the only issue aside from weed that I have received as much hate for. This is absolute confirmation I am over the target. I think that's been your experience too, Blake.

[Blake Neff]

I mean, I want to be as charitable as possible because I know we have 350 million people in this country. Plenty of people have a lot of challenges and we should always avoid any, you know, hateful warfare that stereotypes everyone is, you know, all the same. And so it's easy to say like, oh, rich boomers living it up and wanting to go on cruises. I know a lot of people are not doing that. We're getting emails from them where they talk about how hard it is but we have to avoid generational warfare the other way. And I always want to emphasize if you're going to just abolish or radically cut property taxes or make special carve outs, if you're not actually attacking government spending directly, that bill is going to be paid another way and someone's going to pay that price and that's attacking them just as much.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, well. And yeah, Sager, I'm going to have give you an opportunity to respond to that because I, I'm actually in favor of maybe some ideas where when somebody retires and maybe it's means tested, maybe we freeze it at a certain rate or something like that. I want to throw a graphic up here just to underscore the point that you guys are making. This is from Fortune magazine 159. It's the age distribution of home buyers and sellers by generation. You see that weighted really high up at the old boomer, young boomer and old X. Er, those are the three biggest. Meanwhile, millennials and Gen zers are lagging far behind. And then there's also this. It's a visual, another one 163. It shows that boomers make up 50% of the wealth in the country. And then you see those small little slivers of pies for millennials. And frankly, Gen Xers are lagging pretty far behind. Now I understand boomers are a larger generation, but these are kind of the thoughts that we're exploring and we're saying, hey listen, let's give some for Gen Z or we're going to have a dramatic political revolution in this country and you're going to get mamdaniism all over the place. So we got to find a solution. We got to find a solution. So how about this as a middle ground? If you retire at 65 and you're on fixed income and it's maybe it's based on your ability, your income level or whatever, your wealth level, you could freeze it at a certain level. Because we are seeing dramatic spikes, maybe not currently this year, but especially after Covid. We saw property values shoot up, we saw reassessments shoot up. The amount of property tax elderly on fixed income had to pay. Why can't we find some middle ground there? Or is that the wrong approach?

[E. Sagar]

It's just a little tough, Andrew, because the presumption behind that is that the younger family can also simply just absorb that in there. Where, you know, if, when we're talking about who actually does get automatic inflation adjusted income, unfortunately, you know, if just to speak quite frankly, it's people who are on Social Security. People on Social Security get the automatic cost of living adjustment, including, by the way, they just got from the one big beautiful bill, 88% of Social Security recipients will now also get it tax free. So in terms of the amount of money, specifically state directed money, what you're getting at is that those people actually have much better ability because of their automatic inflation adjusted tax free income to absorb some of the shock that comes while a younger family, you know, technically can go out there and make more money. But of course it's very, very difficult in today's job market as well, especially if we look at the wages that track overall inflation, even including CPI inflation in general. I'm not really for some stuff like that because we've seen the way that it's played out. Let's say in the state of California, one of the most unaffordable housing markets on the planet, which of course has those frozen property tax rates from the time that people buy, which leads to highly variable problems in the amount that people are paying, very different neighborhoods depending on when you bought, and has explicitly been proven statistically to actually lock a lot of people in housing stock. And I know that that can sound a little bit dystop, but the thing is, is what Blake and I are trying to say is, look, nobody is advocating for anybody being kicked out of a house, but we are accepting market realities where, yes, you know, with large assessment has also frankly, quite largely increase your own personal wealth. And if we look at the history of the United States of America and really at the family unit all across the world, you know, downsizing is just simply one of the facts of life in many societies across the world. It actually would be viewed at, you know, extremely strange, this idea of, you know, living in large, not palatial home, but even a three or four bedroom, multi generational housing is viewed much more, you know, as practical and a solution for avoiding having to put people in elderly homes. And that's simply, you know, part of an American characteristic. But more importantly, what I am trying to do, beyond even the specifics that you're trying to lay out, is let's not go far in the point of the way that we did with entitlements, which has led to a lot of the way that we are right here. If we abolish property tax, well, we're not going to get rid of schools, we're not going to get rid of police, there has to be other funding vehicles. And especially in states like Florida and Texas, which Pride themselves as pro family states. That's going to have to probably come in the form of a highly regressive sales tax or some other tax which is almost certain to hit the worker and the younger family member, as well as not increasing the amount of housing stock. And so we have to accept certain market realities and others that currently exist in the way that our housing market works and the way that all of these things are funded. And we have to design it so that all of us together can prosper. And you're right. You know. Zoran Mamdani, rent control in a lot of ways is the inverse of your rent control. And rent price fixing specifically is the inverse of property tax abolition abolishment. Something I'm going to borrow there from Blake, and I think people who are conservative can rightfully ridicule that while not recognizing their own impetus to want that same thing when it benefits themselves.

[Andrew Colvett]

Give us your coordinates. How do people follow you, track you, listen to your show, all the things.

[E. Sagar]

Breaking points on YouTube, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast, E. Sagar on Twitter, TikTok, Instagram, wherever you can find me on social media. Thank you guys for having me. Really appreciate it.

[Blake Neff]

I want to, I want to emphasize, because it's created such a passionate reaction, we are not pursuing generational warfare. We're not attacking anyone who owns a home, anyone who's retired. We are reminding people we are all in a country and we have people who have the biggest problems, which are young people. And this would ignite generational warfare to pursue this. And I think we shouldn't do that. And I think Charlie would tell us not to do that.

[E. Sagar]

Well said, Blake.

[Blake Neff]

For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.