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- [00:04]
A
My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro American student organization in the country, fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You gotta stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a Point USA College chapter. Go start a Turning Point USA High School chapter. Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade. Most important decision I ever made in my life. And I encourage you to do the same. Here I am, Lord.
- [00:47]
B
Use me.
- [00:48]
A
Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold investments@noblegoldinvestments.com that is noblegoldinvestments.com.
- [01:17]
B
all right, welcome back, everybody. We are monitoring the first day of the preliminary hearing in the state versus Tyler Robinson. And there was a lot of back and forth going on about exhibits. I saw some reports saying that, you know, they weren't going to show any of the evidence, but actually that was a motion or that was a move made by the defense, not the state. The state is moving to show them all, but the defense has a concern about those being displayed or published, quote, unquote, published before they've been admitted as evidence. So that's the back and forth going on there, which is. Which is interesting. I do have some notes on that, that it's. The hearing started with arguments over publishing of evidence beyond the courtroom, per the defense request. Per the defense. The state wants evidence published. Defense doesn't want anything to be public, especially prior to the judge admitting his evidence. So that's the central tension there. We've got Jay Towne, former prosecutor, that is going to be joining us in just a second. And we also have. Which I think is a very important guest, we have Austin Metcalfe's father, and that's Jeff Metcalf. He's going to be joining us. I just. I reached out to him because there's very few people that can understand the torment that Erica Kirk and Rob and Katherine, Charlie's parents, are experiencing right now, just having to be in the courtroom with Tyler Robinson. I can only imagine the agony that they are currently experiencing. So please pray for Erica, pray for Rob and Catherine. Pray for the whole team, the larger team that's in Utah today. And it is true, Don Jr. Is in the courtroom by Erica, Rob and Katherine side standing in solidarity with them. So we appreciate dawn for doing that. Blake, any thoughts? I got a. I'm gonna pull something together here.
- [03:29]
C
I mean, we're just. We told you last week, we're committed to seeing this process through from beginning to end. So we know this is a little unusual from our normal show, but it's exactly what we want to be doing in this moment. We want to. There's been so many false claims about this process online. There's been so many. There's been so much, I think, agitation because people have been waiting for this. They want to see the process of justice play out. And because it was. There were so many delays, a lot of other stuff intruded. And we're so glad we're finally at this point where we're seeing witnesses come up, we're seeing people talk about it, and we're committed to showing every minute of it that we're able to.
- [04:10]
B
Yeah. So like I said, we've got J Town, and we've got Austin Metcalf's father. Yeah. So this is interesting, too. So there was a. You just heard the last witness before they took the break is actually a UVU police officer. I'm not sure his name presently, but essentially he said he heard a shot, and then he was asked what kind of shot. He said it was a. It sounded like a rifle because it was louder. He seemed to be familiar with the type of shot. So, you know, the Internet's gonna be full of all these alternate theories. Here's the police officer that was on duty that day saying, I heard a rifle shot. Okay. So that's a key piece of evidence there. Here we go. The defense attempted to object to entering the first exhibit, a photo of the courtyard in for publication, the state of Utah. In this photograph. A fair. Is. Is this photograph a fair and accurate depiction of the area of UVU campus on September 10, 2025? Defense. Your Honor, we would object to inability to inauthenticate. There's not been a foundation laid that this officer took this photo, can verify when it was taken or by whom it was taken. So we would object. So this is the sort of back and forth that is going to play out over the next couple of days. We are being sort of warned that this is gonna be typical, that, you know, they're gonna Present evidence, there's gonna be objections. It all is very procedural. And, I mean, I don't know. There hasn't been a whole heck of a lot presented yet, but there hasn't. There was a mention of meth that I'm trying to get clarity on. Oh, also, Judge Graff has entered in a picture for evidence of the screwdriver found by Officer Bagley. So that's his name into the record. I will go ahead and admit. So that was a direct quote from Judge Graff. So that was the officer that heard the rifle shot. Officer Bagley. He apparently was the one that discovered the screwdriver on top of the building.
- [06:22]
C
Building allegedly used for assembling. Disassembling the rifle.
- [06:27]
B
Yeah. And I, you know, I know there's some controversy over assembling or disassembling, so we'll. We'll hold on that. And not make any judgments until the evidence is presented in court. So that's about where we're at right now. You know, we weren't expecting. Oh, we have Jay on the phone right now. All right. J Town, are you there?
- [06:54]
D
I am here. I'm here. So sorry we weren't able to do video today, but. That's okay. It's better. They're staring at you anyway.
- [07:02]
B
No, no, that's great. I appreciate it, Jay. I know we've been. It's very difficult to kind of predict the clock for this hearing. They keep kind of suggesting they're going to have a break at one time, and then it either goes long or they get delayed on the first, you know, the first marker. And so then everything. The timeline is shifting, but I guess that's what we have to expect this week. All right, so, Jay, you have been monitoring this hearing, right? Very, very closely. You're a career prosecutor, you're a former U.S. attorney. Tell us what you have observed from this hearing thus far.
- [07:39]
D
Well, a couple of things. One, from the prosecution perspective, they've been very meticulous. You know, anytime you put a witness on, especially a professional like a police officer, which my understanding is there's going to be four police officers who testify to prob. 40 or 50 different exhibits. And you're going to go through their experience, you're going to go through, you know, where they were on that day, and then they're going to start to really, really narrow the focus about everything that they saw that is relative to the crime. You mentioned I heard a rifle shot. And how do you. Why do you say that? Well, because a pistol, a firearm, they make different Noises and you can tell a pistol shot from a 30 odd six. And so that was, I think, you know, pretty, pretty interesting considering some of the tinfoil hat crowd out there. Right. But at the same time, the defense counsel is going to make this as laborious as possible. There are no rules of evidence in a preliminary hearing yet. They've objected to every single exhibit thus far based on foundation. Now let me just say it for, for everybody. If you know, your daughter or a friend takes picture of your backyard just because you didn't take the picture on that day and maybe you weren't even in the country on the day that picture was taken, you can still authenticate a picture of your backyard as a fair and accurate depiction of your backyard. And that's all he was asking the officers to do. Frankly. I've had Google Earth images authenticated by police officers or by the owner of the, wherever that the Google Earth was depicting. So defense is going to make this laborious. The thing about that is if they do that in front of a jury, a jury will hate them because they are just dragging it on, just making it hard unnecessarily because all the objections are overruled, then the evidence comes anyway. So we just wasted another 20 minutes because you guys wanted to jump up for some preservation of the record. Objection. That was meaningless.
- [09:52]
B
Yeah. And so you think that this is just a preliminary trial tactic then, Jay, that they will. Do you think that?
- [09:59]
D
I mean, it could be, you know, but typically you just wouldn't, you know, your prelim hearing tactic and your trial tactic, they're about the same thing. And if we're, you know, if, you know, history is in the indicator. They've objected to everything. They've been a very litigious defense group. And so I don't know that they're not going to object to everything on the record, build a record because they know. Here's the thing, the reason you do that, the reason why you look scared is because you are scared because you know there is overwhelming evidence against your client. The only way to save his life is to hope for an appeal and appellate court somewhere that says, you know what that judge shouldn't have overruled, that it should have been sustained and yada yada, and therefore you got to have a new trial. Well, okay, well, we're just going to take a plea deal now because it's 15 years from now and some of the witnesses are dead or, or don't remember, it's just an old case. And, and that's the hope that's the tactic. I've seen it done over and over again. There's nothing new here. The evidence is overwhelming against Tyler is in the indictment. Right. I mean just the. But the evidence itself and we haven't even heard from, you know, the, the lover and, and the parents from Tyler Robinson where admissions were likely made by Tyler Robinson.
- [11:31]
B
Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, we've got an exhibit, I mean they've got a list of exhibits that they're planning on. Right. So we've got the drone image of Ubu, photo of the screwdriver. Daytime photo of sniper perch, photo of sniper perch. Video of mother with children in crowd. Written statement, video of shooting from behind the questioner. Written statement, video of shooting from behind Charlie Kirk written statement, video of shooting from behind the booth. Photo of the rifle in the bushes. Photo of the rifle in the bushes. Photo of rifle and box. Medical examiner report, UVU surveillance, doorbell, camera. And then they've got recorded statement from Lance Twiggs. So, I mean there's a ton here I want to talk to you about an issue so many Americans face and that's health insurance. There's an organization I really, really appreciate called Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a faith based alternative to health insurance. And this is real stuff. Folks like you gotta listen in. With chm, you're not paying into a company's profit margin. You're investing in a community with less overhead than the competition. You get reliable support through the giving and prayer of fellow members. Members contribute every month to help pay for each other's medical bills, allowing believers to afford the care they need because they're not insurance. You get access to your preferred doctor or hospital without network restrictions. You heard that right. If you want to see massive savings in your health care budget, CHM has four low cost programs for every stage of life, starting at just $115 a month. Plus you can enroll or switch your program at any time. See why so many believers are taking a leap of faith? Start today by visiting chministries.orgcharlie and use promo code Charlie for a 50% credit towards your first month. That's chministries.orgcharlie and use promo code Charlie. You know, Jay, it begs the question because I saw some people mentioning this on social media, other lawyers kind of chiming in and I don't know if this is specific to Utah law, but there was some people that were sort of saying, I'm surprised they didn't waive the preliminary. The defense didn't waive the preliminary hearing. What do you make of that, Is that even an option in the state of Utah? First of all, assuming that they had a choice one way or the other, can you surmise tactics from either decision?
- [14:15]
D
Well, I am. I am surprised, frankly, that they didn't waive the preliminary hearing. The prosecutor said that they have received. That the defense counsel has received every piece of evidence. So it's not like they're just wondering, is there any evidence against Tyler Robinson? They've received it all. They know that the evidence is overwhelming. So why error it all this week when there's no. Not even any rules of evidence. Right. So anything that might be inadmissible is not inadmissible this week. And what's happening is the world is watching. People are hearing the evidence against Tyler Robinson. No longer were defense counsel be able to hide against the tinfoil hat crowd and hope that they can draw some of those jurors for the actual jury trial, because there won't be any legs for the tinfoil hat crowd to stand on because it will be so overwhelming. The admission, the ballistics reports, the fingerprints, the DNA, some of the evidence, other evidence that likely exists that hasn't even been commented on yet. And so wave it. The only. I mean, that's not like. That's. The other thing is that it's not like this is going to be sworn testimony from eyewitnesses where they said they saw a small dog one day, and then on the stand they say they saw a puppy, and they try to make reasonable doubt out of that. The hearsay is admissible. So, you know, the officers, when they're having these conversations with other people and they testify about those conversations, that would be hearsay at trial. So there's really no ability to impeach on that hearsay because it won't even be admissible at trial. You have to actually call the witness. So, again, it's just a. I don't know that this defense team is. Is the dream team. That's. That's kind of the conclusion I'm reaching at the moment.
- [16:08]
B
Any thoughts, Blake?
- [16:09]
C
It's just I've been expressing all this bafflement to people that it seems every time there's a famous trial, the rules are totally different. We obviously have 50 states, but it's all just very overwhelming. So we're very grateful to have you here, someone who's experienced to walk us through this. I thought I've had. I know they say they plan for this to take about the week. It's going to be full days other than Wednesday. They Have a half day. Is there any chance this ends surprisingly early or goes surprisingly long? Could this go into the next week
- [16:42]
D
with this defense team? It's possible. I mean, the prosecution really, if. If the judge, you know, allows things to move along, the prosecution really should be done today. Most of the stuff is just being entered, like the medical exam. I mean, they have to prove that Charlie Kirk did in fact die and that he died from a gunshot wound and that it was deemed a homicide by the ME So those. I mean, those are all just sort of admitted pro forma. A lot of these exhibits will be admitted pro forma, so they should be done today, maybe first thing in the morning. But this defense team, that for some reason they want to drag their client through and let the whole world see just how guilty he is and, you know, maybe poison the jury pool, maybe that's the only tactic that makes sense here, is that they're trying to make war deer so hard because everybody has seen such overwhelming evidence of Tyler Robinson's guilt.
- [17:44]
C
Well, so you say they could get it all done today. So, for example, the Lance Twigs statement that they have that they can't cross examine. But are we going to hear the whole statement? Are they going to give a summary of the statement? Are they just going to state the video? We have this and, you know, we'll get into it.
- [18:01]
B
Yeah. Interview that they did with them. So I would presume, Jay, that they're going to show the whole thing. Right. Or at least they're going to show the video.
- [18:09]
D
They are. Or at least play the audio of it. If the judge doesn't want to show it, which is. That's fine. If I'm the state at this point, every piece of evidence I'm putting in. Because you guys are making me go through this ridiculous process. You know what your client did. So does he. But you want to go through it, Fine. I am going to paint the most guilty person that. That ever lived for the whole world to see and behold. So I'm not pulling punches if I'm the prosecution at this point. You're going to make me waste a week on this, Fine. Guess what? Your guy is gonna look like the most guilty person that ever lived. And he is. So go ahead, State of Utah.
- [18:49]
B
Yeah. Interesting. So you think the tactics here then, and maybe I'm reading into what you said, Jay, is that, you know, they're gonna. They're gonna make this laborious. They're gonna make. Make it as painful as possible. Maybe either, you know, just to keep. Keep pushing the psychology Maybe taint a jury pool. Do you think that there's a tactic here where they're trying to get the evidence out so that. Because the Internet does what the Internet does with this stuff. And the tinfoil hat crowd, as you call them, are they banking on that? Do you think?
- [19:23]
D
It could be. I mean, they could just be banking on breaking the will of the prosecution, that they just don't have it in them the energy to fight for the Kirk family, for Charlie Kirk. And that very well could be that they, that they think that, you know, maybe they'll just give up and give them life without parole.
- [19:44]
B
I don't think that's gonna happen.
- [19:46]
D
Yeah, it better not happen. Yeah, but that, I mean, you. Look, all these strategies are losers, guys. That's the thing you got to remember from the defense perspective, the defense lawyers perspective, everything they do is going to cause a loss. Right. Their guy is gonna, is going to be found guilty and likely sentenced to death. So if that's the case, then, I mean, what strategy isn't worth trying? Right?
- [20:13]
B
That's a really, I think that's a really interesting point.
- [20:15]
C
Yeah.
- [20:16]
B
Yeah. When you, when you sort of like don't have the evidence on your side and there's not a whole lot of outs, you're just kind of throwing stuff at the wall to see if you could get the judge to do something, could trigger a drag it out or a get it reversible on appeal. I find that like a really interesting psychology for the defense, to be honest.
- [20:36]
C
Do you people keep speculating that the defense might be hoping on, can we get a weirdo on the jury who's just going to, Who'd be open to thinking Israel did this, the Trump administration did this. I imagine it's basically malpractice for the lawyer to openly play to that and they don't want to end up getting disbarred. But it would that be in the back of their heads, that the longer we drag this out the crate, the more crazy people there will be and that could improve our odds of a mistrial.
- [21:08]
D
Well, perhaps. I mean, you do broaden the pool. The longer the crazies get to run around on the Internet, then the more crazies there might be. But look, the prosecution is going to have a team of people scrubbing social media, scrubbing chat rooms, everything they can get their handle hands on to be looking for anything as it relates to Charlie Kirk. And there are 12 people in the state of Utah that haven't formed an opinion about Tyler Robinson's guilt. But Also don't subscribe to the, the tinfoil hat crowd, I guess as I, as I'm going to continue to call them because, you know, I mean, they can be fair minded, open minded. They have to be able to subscribe to the death penalty. That'll be difficult. State of Utah as well, very conservative, very religious state. But here in the great state Alabama, you know, we, we do it on the regular. And you know, some people can get past it because justice is important. So again, the defense counsel, they're going to try every single tactic. They're going to try to break the will of the prosecution and that ain't going to happen.
- [22:15]
B
Yeah, I don't really. I mean, when, when you've got this much evidence, right, Jay, you would think that the prosecution is sort of willing to go through brick walls if they have to. You know, all these objections, all this procedural stuff, I mean, I can't imagine that they, that they would be cowed by that. All right, so we're going to go back to the hearing. J Town, thank you so much for joining. We're going to be in close contact this week, my friend. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
- [22:43]
D
You got it. Thank you.
- [22:47]
B
Hi, folks. Andrew Colvett here. I'd like to tell you about my friends over at why Refi. You've probably been hearing me talk about why Refi? For some time now. We are all in with these guys. If you or someone you know is struggling with private student loan debt, take my advice and give them a call. Maybe you're behind on your payments, maybe you're even in default. You don't have to live in this nightmare anymore. Why Refi will provide you a custom payment based on your ability to pay. They tailor each loan individually. They can save you thousands of dollars and you can get your life back. We go to campuses all over America and we see student after student who's drowning in private student loan debt. Many of them don't even know how much they owe. Yrefi can help. Just go to yrefi.com that's the letter Y. Then refi.com and remember why Refi doesn't care what your credit score is. Just go to yrefi.com and tell them your friend Andrew sent you. All right, welcome back. Lots of information there that was just gone through. And we had. We see the defense cross examining Officer Bagley. You know, we hear about the sniper's nest, the impressions on the ground, how Officer Bagley, you know, first experience the noises, the sound of the shot, what he put in his police report. Very procedural, very by the book. Everything feels very deliberate. These are my general takeaways here. I don't see anything that's surprising yet, but noteworthy, certainly.
- [24:32]
C
I mean, you see it. I was messaging a friend of mine. It's a little remarkable. You know, obviously it's such a high profile case. Then when you see these police officers being asked, what were you on campus for? Oh, there was a guest speaker that day. Do you know the name of that guest speaker? Yes, I do. And they are really. They're laying that all out. But this gets back to. You want to make sure everything is entirely by the book as this goes through. Precisely because it's so high profile. Precisely because there are people who will seize on literally anything they possibly can to, we believe, help. Help the person we believe is guilty escape full culpability.
- [25:13]
B
Yeah, you're right. It's the. The sort of procedural nature of it is fascinating to watch, actually. You know, so you've got officer Bagley. So he says, yeah, I signed up for an overtime shift for this, for this event. And the way that they have the exhibits so that they're not displayed publicly. I think this is an interesting clip to show just to kind of go through the way that, you know, the step by step process that has to be followed here based on judge Graff's instructions. So he actually has to get off the witness stand to go and point where he found the screwdriver. So you don't actually get to see it, but he's off camera pointing to it. Let's go ahead and play it. Just as a good example.
- [25:53]
E
SOT 23, go ahead and publish exhibit 3.1.
- [25:57]
F
Officer Bagley, so you testified that this is the screwdriver as you saw it on September 10, 20, 2025, correct? Yes, I'm going to. And this was on top of which roof?
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E
Pelosi building.
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F
And in relationship to the entrance that the stairway. And when you hopped over the rail to get there, where was it located?
- [26:17]
E
About 10 or 15ft in.
- [26:19]
F
Okay, if I could, your honor, bring up states exhibit number two that was previously admitted. I would like to have officer Bagley come down from the witness stand and point on that exhibit where approximately where the screwdriver was located. So if you can describe where you saw that screwdriver. Point to that.
- [26:42]
B
Yeah, so this is the LOSI building right here with the light gray. Here's the guardrail in the center of the picture with the red brick just over that, about 10, 15ft in about right there.
- [26:51]
F
Thank you. You can take your seat again.
- [26:55]
B
So that was interesting. I think that's just a good example of how he has to. We have to navigate these exhibits so that they're not published. Just a quick programming note for anybody watching on the stream. We have Jet Metcalfe, Austin Metcalfe's dad, just about to join us. And I know he's got some words of encouragement for Erica. You know, speaking of which, there's an interesting report here. I'll try and get the graphic for everybody here. This is. I've confirmed that this is actually a reporter inside the courtroom here. There's. I guess this is. Let me get the name of this reporter. Senior national correspondent for News Nation, Brian Enten. If you could throw that graphic up when you get it. Just took a screen grab of the tweet. But he said, seen from inside the Tyler Robinson courtroom. Erica Kirk was crying before the hearing started. Donald Trump Jr. Is in the front, front row with his wife. Tyler Robinson was laughing with his attorney before the hearing started. Erica left during the description of the shooting. So, I mean, I just think it's, like, important just to kind of understand that this is, you know, there's a lot of noise, there's a lot of attention on this. There's a lot of, you know, back and forth. I'm sure some of you have seen my Twitter back and forth with Candace or Blake's, all that's noise. Because actually, what is really important here is the fact that these are human beings that are dealing with this awful experience. And I just can't imagine being in that courtroom right now. And the fact that Erica has to do that and be in front of all those people for something. She is, I mean, she's a victim here. And, you know, Rob and Catherine Kirk, Charlie's parents as well.
- [28:50]
C
And we should note, we've seen. Erica has never seen a video of the shooting. She's never really listened closely to a description of it. She does avoid doing that. And so when he says she walked out, she's walking out because the officers describing what he saw and what happened.
- [29:10]
B
Yeah.
- [29:10]
C
And that's still very challenging for her.
- [29:13]
B
Yeah, absolutely. And I believe we have. Our guest is just about ready. Jeff Metcalf. Again, I reached out to Jeff because there's very few people, especially in sort of the more recent, you know, days and weeks and months that could relate to what Erica's going through. And Rob and Kathryn, of course, Charlie's parents, more than. Than Jeff. And so Jeff Metcalf, Austin Metcalf's father joins us now. Jeff, welcome to the show, and thank you so much for making the time. And I see you're wearing a beautiful shirt there, sir. Thank you.
- [29:55]
E
Thank you for having me on.
- [29:56]
B
Yeah. You know, with you, it's kind of easy because I'm not talking about details of the case. I'm not talking about procedural elements that the lawyers are throwing out there. I just want to hear from you. And I'm sure Erica and Rob and Catherine, Charlie's parents, would love to hear from you, too, because you've been through something terrible and tragic and awful, and you've experienced the crazy media attention and the social media of it all. And you were a victim because you lost your son and you had to go through hell to get justice for him. And so the floor is yours, sir. We'd love to hear what you want to tell Erica, what you want to tell Rob and Catherine in this moment.
- [30:44]
E
Well, first, my condolences go out to them. Says there aren't really words that can make you feel better, but knowing that someone has gone through and understands, maybe what you're feeling gives you a little bit more comfort when it comes from them. But I just tell them, you know, I know they're strong in their faith. So am I. And that's what's gotten me through so far for me. But sitting in that courtroom for the first time ever, facing the person that's accused of murdering, you know, either your spouse or your child, it takes a range of emotions. It's a roller coaster ride while you sit there. And to be able to maintain and keep your thought process coherent is very challenging. At the least, there's a million different emotions that pulls you 100 different ways. There's the human side of you that sits on your shoulder and whispers in your ear the things you really don't want to hear or shouldn't hear. And then there's the little guy on this side of your shoulder who whispers in your ear and tells you what you should do and what you shouldn't do and what you and who you try to be. It goes back to an old Indian story about the young lad who asked the chief, you know what's inside of us? And he said, well, there's two, two wolves that live inside you. One live is, you know, full of hate, anger, fear, and the other one is love, compassion, kindness. And the young Indian said, well, which one wins? And he said, the ones you feed the most. So it's the same thing with emotions when you have, like, for forgiveness. For me, people When. Because this is what happened. When Erica stood up there and said she forgave him, that was the same exact thing I did. And my phone started blowing up because they're like, oh, my God, you know, she. She just forgave him, just like you. And I said, people don't understand forgiveness. Forgiveness is for me. So I don't carry hate, anger, revenge in that inside of me. You have to let that go and rely on your faith, because it says vengeance. Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord. So, I mean, you. You can. You can go scriptural, but realistically, for your mental health, you really need to learn how to let that go so you don't carry it around so it won't eat you up like cancer. And that's the reason I was able to forgive so fast, because I know what I needed to do for me as a Christian. And it doesn't make me any more or better or less of a Christian, because at this point, even my son cannot forgive him for what he did. And I told him, that's fine. You don't have to. But this is a personal choice for me and a personal choice with my faith that this is the path that I choose to go. Now. I don't forgive this person for. For his actions. I mean, I have to forgive him and hope to God that he can repent and find Jesus Christ as a savior. Doesn't take the fact away that he murdered my son. Doesn't take the fact away I'm still human, have emotions. Don't think I'm not angry. Don't think I'm not sad. Don't think I don't cry. I. I mean, all these things are true. But to make it the final destination where I know I'm going to end up right beside Austin at some point, and then he can tell me why the understanding. Because I don't have understanding at this moment. I just have to trust God's plan because I don't understand why he needed my son at 17. But I'm also very aware there's evil in this world, and it does exist. And like I've always said, light always overcomes darkness. So no matter what, I've learned to try to tell myself this is only temporary. Whatever's happening to me is only temporary. You will get through it. Because a. A saying I came with a long time ago is, if God brought you to it, he can bring you through it. So I have no idea what God has planned for me. I sure didn't see this coming at all. But it it does reshape you, it does break you down and it does you become someone different because you're never going to be the person you were before that person is gone. And you have to learn how to live in. I don't say a new normal because I hate that phrase because there's nothing normal about it. But you have to learn. What I chose to do is one of the things I've learned is instead of learning to learn how to live without him, I'm going to live for him. So I'm going to keep his name out there. I'm gonna do, you know, I'll probably form a 5001 3C3 and get some non profit and organization, you know, all in for Austin Metcalf foundation or something. Because I want to keep it going. I want to help people out there. I want to be able to keep the message alive. Because I think nowadays in today's society the youth has no impulse control de escalation skills, conflict resolution skills. I think some of these things need to be taught early on, even in school. I think it could be a curriculum. I would love to go around and speak to high school and colleges and wherever would want to hear me speak upon this. I would, I would love to be approached so I could spread the word and do something like that. I mean, because right now at this point I really don't have a clue what I'm going to do next with my life. And I just trust God that he's going to point me in the direction, you know, I mean, yes, I'm a. Yes, I'm a big fan of Turning Point. Yes, I was a big fan of Charlie Kirk. I mean, so, I mean has nothing a lot of people will say, well, you know, well, he was racist. He was. No he wasn't. No, he wasn't. If you listen to him, just like, you know, I was taking that out of context. People can take snippets and then turn it into their narrative. And, and that's, and that's totally unfair. And, and to, to misrepresent someone like that. I mean really, what kind of person are you and what are you trying to achieve? Are you just out there stirring the pot, trying to get clicks, trying to make a living off social media or tick tock? I mean, are you do. Are you do or are you actually have value that you're putting out there or is it really just Jeff, that's
- [37:54]
B
what I hear you saying is, you know, you're, you want to take this tragedy and turn it into purpose. And you talked about talking on, speaking on campuses or at schools or whatever. You know, we'd love to help you do that, because I do think you have a really important message to spread and. And, you know, to live with that purpose, live for Austin. I find so much of what you were just saying, you know, I. You know, Blake and I lost somebody, too, but not on the level of you or Erica or Rob and Kathryn. But, you know, I felt like I related to it a lot as well, because you do kind of realize that the life you had before all this happened, it will never be the same. And you have to live in our current moment with our current reality. I think that's something I've been reticent to accept. So even hearing you say that was powerful for me to hear. If you could go back in time and buy oil before the world relied on it, would you? Of course you would. Anybody would. So why aren't you buying silver right now? The people who recognized oil early didn't just make money. They got ahead of one of the biggest economic shifts in history. And today, a similar opportunity is unfolding with silver. Silver is more than a precious metal. It's a critical resource used in solar panels, electric vehicles, defense systems, AI infrastructure, and the massive data centers powering that digital world. While demand keeps growing, it's still affordable enough that the average American can start accumulating it right now. That's why investors are turning to silver to protect against inflation and to own one of the world's most important strategic resources. Don't be the person who looks back in 10 years and says, I saw it coming. I just didn't act. Visit noblegoldinvestments.com Kirk and learn how easy it is to own physical silver. That's noblegoldinvestments.com Kirk own the metal the future depends on.
- [39:47]
E
Oh, I mean, I'm just. I'm just a normal guy. I. I'm a vessel that God chooses to use however he sees fit. I don't always agree or like it. Yes, but, you know, I. I trust him, and he's. He's putting things in front of me that I need to be open my eyes and be aware of just as. Just as this interview today. I mean, I've always been a huge Turning Point USA fan. I was huge Charlie Kirk fan. And just to be able to be on the show and talk and. And understand, you know, now I'm not going to say that my loss is the same as Erica's loss, because it's not hers was A spouse. Mine was a child. But that doesn't take away from her loss or my loss at all, because loss affects all of us differently, just like grief affects all of us differently. And there's no timeline, there's no instruction book. There's no getting over it. I mean, that's. That's. That doesn't happen. And, and the worst thing someone can say to you, and I know they're always trying to be nice, is, you know, how you doing? Are you okay? Okay, that, to me, that's the dumbest question in the world. Don't ever ask me that. I'm like, seriously, just. I understand. You don't know what to say. Just put your hand on my shoulder and pray. I mean, you don't have to. You don't have to be. You know, sometimes it's awkward for people, a bunch of my friends even, like, we don't know what to say to you. And I said, you don't have to say anything. Just come sit down beside me. That's all you have to say a word. Just your presence tells me you're here for me. That's all I need to know. There's no words that are going to make me feel better. There's no words that are going to make Erica feel better, that take that healing and that feeling better takes. It happens within us, the person who suffered the tragedy. Yes, we. We. You know, I appreciate the condolences and the love and the support throughout the. The nation, the world, the community, my friends, my family. But you still have to go through the process. You still have to grieve. And there's five phases, and. And they can raise their head at any time, and I can be fine for a week, and then a tsunami of emotion will hit me just instantly. It could be a trigger of a favorite song or a favorite place or a favorite food, or just any little memory that can be triggered will force you right back into that flow of emotions, will basically, you lose it.
- [42:26]
F
You.
- [42:26]
E
You start crying and you, you know, hopefully, you know, you're. You're in somewhere, a safe space, hopefully. But truth of the matter is, you know, you don't control this. And it's. You. You try to learn how to deal with it because you never know when it actually is going to hit. So you just try to, you know, catch your triggers, pray, and, you know, allow yourself to grieve. Don't try to hold stuff in, let it out. If you don't, I'll tell you, if you keep it inside, it's going to Eat you up like cancer. And you're going to be miserable and you're going to be bitter and you're going to carry grudges and it's going to affect the way you raise your children, the way, the way, the way you talk to your spouse, your boss, everything in life. You'll become a. A bitter, sour person. And that's not who I want to become. And yeah, I'm hurt. Yeah, I'll never be the same. But I think this also gives me the opportunity to become better, to be better than what I ever have been. Now I've got the opportunity to even step up further. Now I've got the opportunity maybe to help other people. Maybe I can go around and speak to people that can actually make a difference. Like, and I'm not saying I'm Charlie Kirk, but. But along those lines, he went around and spoke and made a difference. You know, he. He was amazing individual. I will never compare myself to him. I can only admire from afar and, and try to achieve, you know, half the person he ever was. The man was a just a walking chat GPT full of knowledge and could and had words that you. You didn't. You couldn't go up against. He made too much sense. And that's what's the problem is for the left, he. He made common sense.
- [44:21]
B
That's. That's the best I've ever heard it actually. Charlie made too much sense. He just made sense for them, you know. And I love what you're talking about, though, and I. Blake, I want to get you in here, but I just feel like you're talking about this process of becoming right. You think about a story, you know, whether it's a movie or a book or whatever, where, you know, the character has to become. They're put through this trial and they become something different. And you know, the character, like, you think about Jonah and the whale. Jonah didn't want to go, you know, to Nineveh. He didn't want to. He ran from God and he became. But God forced him to sort of step into that calling and eventually he said yes to it and I think
- [45:06]
E
out of the boat. Yeah, there's a ton of biblical things, so people. I mean, there's tons. David and the lion, Peter in the boat, you know, Lazarus back from the dead, you know, Jesus wept. I mean, there's so much things that. That's in that, in the Bible that yes, you. I choose to incorporate into my life. Charlie chose to incorporate into his life. Now I'm not. I'm not Saying other religions are bad or anything. It's just a personal belief and who I want to be and it's who I want to reach and those and anyone who has the same belief as me that I can reach out to, maybe I can help them or help someone in a situation where I can somehow be helpful, inspirational, guiding, you know, I don't want to say knowledge but maybe that, you know, give shared knowledge just so they, maybe if I can reach just one person, it's a success. But obviously Charlie reached millions of people. If I could do just a, a quarter of what he ever did, I would be very happy. But you know, I, I, I feel parallels along with him is just wanting to be out there, spread the word, you know, and have a meaningful conversation without insults and hate and threats of violence and things like that.
- [46:22]
C
Jeff, all of this has been tremendous, incredible. I want to speak to one specific parallel that exists between you and Erica which besides that it's you've lost a loved one, besides that it's a very high profile case, but that it's one that unfortunately we see hateful, gleeful things posted online. We talked about what a lot of supporters of your son's killer were saying online, posting videos, TikTok and all of that. And we see similar things with that. Here we had our young Women's leadership event and there was a guy with a big paper mache head of Charlie reenacting his death. We see people post about how happy they are that Charlie's dead.
- [47:09]
B
They make jokes about it against Erica at Women's Leadership.
- [47:13]
C
On the flip side of this also, you don't have this as much but the conspiracy theories about it where they say actually Erica's not a grieving widow, she's a fake widow. She conspired, she's helping cover up the real killers. But you're the really the closest person we have to someone who's dealt with something of this scale. Do you have a message for Erica, how you would advise overcoming the feelings this is going to cause in her, Ignoring it, getting past it, just. Any thoughts in that vein?
- [47:46]
E
Yeah. So for your, for your mental health, you need to stay, you need to stay off social media. You just need to stay away from all avenues that want to spew this vile hatred, misinformation, total lies, same exact. I still to this day, I still get death threats and my family still gets death threats. Now this is a very small percentage of a certain subculture demographic that is causing these issues. So in realistically if you're looking at the Big picture of it, they're really a small portion of people, but they're soulless, they have no moral compass, they don't contribute to society in an effective way. All they want to do is obviously they don't have enough life of their own, but they want to get involved in yours and just spew hate based on maybe the color of your skin and that's it. And there was a man who said, don't judge or judge a man by his character, not by the color of his skin. Pretty famous guy. And I think that's a great statement because that's the same way I look at people. I don't judge you by color, I judge you by character. And you know, and for those who maybe are younger than me or didn't know who said this, Martin Luther King is the man who made that quote famous. And so like, again, this isn't a race thing, this is a human being thing. Erica's husband was murdered. My son was murdered. Those things are not going to change. To accept, to want to just accept the fact is hard enough because it does seem surreal the first few days. It's going on like it, like you're in a dream and it's not really happening, but it really is. And you have to figure out how you're going to navigate this one. Get some professional help, find a counselor, find a grief group, something just. But don't isolate. That is the worst thing you can do. Get, get you a support network, learn what you know, understand what you're going to go through. It's not going to help the pain, but it's going to help with the understanding and that's going to help you navigate it. It's not going to be easy. It's the hardest thing ever. It's the most painful thing ever. But you have to get through it. Because I tell people, you never know how strong you are until you have to be. And then you're, you can actually surprise yourself. Examples. 10 years ago I was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and they told me, jeff, if it gets below your neck, we can't save you, you're dead. I just got faced with immortality and I have two 7 year old boys hugging my legs, yelling, daddy, Daddy, please don't die. So man, I had to make my, it's a mindset. And I had to make a mindset of, okay, I am not going to die. And it's the same thing with this situation right now. I am not going to let this beat me. I am going to become something better out of this tragedy. I'm going to create something for other people, hopefully to be better out of this tragedy. And it will carry my son's name on, which is the number one thing that I really want to do, is carry his name on. We already have a scholarship set up at the high school to give an athlete a scholarship, the Austin Metcalf Scholarship Award, every year. I'd like to. I'd like to increase that. I'd like to grow that. There's other charities I'd like to be involved in also, and I'd love to. I would love to speak and go around and just be able to do that with people and just spread and spread my story and hopefully give people some sort of inspiration or some sort of nugget they can carry on and just improve their life with. Because we're all here for a short period of time. Tomorrow's never promised, as I'm very aware of that now. So live every day with purpose.
- [52:25]
B
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- [53:24]
E
And now I feel like I have a purpose. I had a purpose before, and it was being a father. I'm still a father. I have one in heaven. I have one still here fixing to go to college. So I. I still have responsibilities to my other son who's lived through the most tragic event, trauma. I can't even imagine. I can't. I don't have a twin brother, and I sure can't imagine seeing him being murdered and dying in my arms. I.
- [54:03]
B
It's okay, jeff.
- [54:08]
E
You Know, his hunter's been put through a lot. I mean, we all have. But, you know, he's, he's my son. And as a parent, you know, you always want to protect your kids. And you know, the stuff online and let me say this up front, this goes for both sides, not just my side. I want to make this perfectly clear. The stuff that's going on online, the memes, the pictures, the vile comments, look, they come from the far right too, with pictures of Carmelo saying very vile things that are going to happen to him in prison. I don't condone that. That is not who you need to be. Stop it, please. These are two kids. One's dead and the other one's in prison. So there's no good outcome. There's nothing good about it. And making memes and, and derogatory remarks on dead children are imprisoned children. I'm sorry, you need to, you need to check yourself. You need to really look in the mirror and go, wow, what, who am I? What kind of person am I? And what if you have children? What are you teaching? What are you teaching your children with this behavior? That's what I am so concerned about, is not just me, because I'm not, I'm only here for another 20, 25 years. I'm worried about what's my kids futures like, what my kids kids futures are like. What's, what are we, where are we going to be? Are we going to be divided? Are we going to have a race war? Are we going to have a civil war again? We've already had one in this country. I, I, I, that's, I'm worried about the moral decay of society and where we're taking it and what we're learning to become acceptable is not acceptable. Well, I'm, I'm old school, as my kids tell me. Oh, you're old school, dad? Yeah, I am. I am old school. I respected my parents. I did not have a sense of entitlement. I had to work for everything that was given to me. I had rules, responsibilities, chores. My parents instilled discipline in me. You know, if we were inside, we were grounded. We hated being inside. We wanted to be outside today's world. I'm not. I mean, my generation was the last generation that grew up without cell phones, Internet and social media. Greatest time in the world to grow up. Because now everything's recorded, everything's taped, everything. I mean, you have no privacy. You cannot do the same things you I did when I was a kid. But today's, today's youth is put under such more scrutiny, more mental health issues. I mean, I honestly believe, you know, when we took God out of school, it affected our society. When we started giving people voices and opinions and platforms to say whatever they think. And if they say it loud enough, they think it's right. And they. In their mind, it's a perceived reality and it's not. And it's not the truth, but it is their reality. That's what they live in. And you can see how today has society has been formed. Just go back 50 years and see how far we've come. Just go back a hundred years and see how far we've come. It's amazing. I mean, America is the greatest country in the world, no doubt about it. But we create our own problems half the time.
- [57:55]
B
Yeah.
- [57:56]
E
From within. From within. The outside factors are not. We need to deal with what's within our borders. We need to deal with the homeless, we need to deal with the veterans. We need to deal with mental health. These are issues, but everyone wants to start, oh, it's a gun, you know. Oh, so guns are bad. No, guns are good. People are bad. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. That's what I tell people. Yes. I'm a second Amendment person. Yes. I believe in the right. I believe in everything. Do I believe in murder?
- [58:28]
D
No.
- [58:29]
B
Right.
- [58:29]
E
It's a crime. It's a law. We have to keep our civilized, normal society actions in order. You break the law, there are consequences. I told my sons this all the time growing up. You are free in life to make any decisions you want, but you are not free from the consequences.
- [58:48]
B
That's right.
- [58:48]
E
So remember that. And this was a perfect example. Unfortunately, it took it to the extreme in my case. But there are consequences for shoving a knife in someone's chest.
- [58:59]
B
Charlie's case. Yeah.
- [59:00]
E
Oh, Charlie's case is. That's a slam dunk. I mean, the man was assassinated as I watched on tv. I mean, yeah, there's just something wrong with people.
- [59:15]
B
Yeah. Jeff, I really appreciate you giving us so much of your time today. And I know God's got big plans for what you're going to do next and the purpose you're going to live with. And honestly, I'm just. I'm really encouraged listening to you because I believe what you said Erica needs to hear and Rob and Kathryn need to hear, and there's just very few people that could relate to what they're going through right now. And you're one of them. And it's a terrible club for you to be in and for us to sort of be in and membership dues. Yeah. But we so appreciate you and I thank you for. For making this a priority today. I'm gonna clip this and send it right to Erica so she can watch it tonight. And we just. We just really appreciate you. God bless you. I really mean that.
- [60:09]
E
Bless her family. And, you know, you obviously know what I told you offline. You know, you can reach out, so.
- [60:16]
B
Thanks. You too, Jeff.
- [60:17]
E
Just God bless them and I'll pray for them.
- [60:21]
B
God bless you.
- [60:23]
E
Thank you, sir.
- [60:23]
B
Jeff Metcalf, Austin Metcalf's father, so generous with his time and, yeah, that was powerful. Just to sit back and listen to. I mean, there's just something about somebody that's been through that process personally and had to. Had to face so much tragedy and heartache. And I hate to admit. I mean, I don't hate to admit it. I just have to confront the fact that I relate to so much of that. And I know you do, too, Blake. And we're going to take a quick break here. I think we're going to. The court's going to come back in session at some point, so we're just kind of waiting for that. Maybe if we want to take the RAV feed guys for the stream and they'll be back.
- [61:04]
C
We'll be back one their time. And I think they go until five.
- [61:07]
B
You said five Utah time. Yeah. So that would be four Pacific or seven Eastern.
- [61:12]
C
Seven Eastern.
- [61:13]
B
Yeah. And then we've got a special. We're gonna do a recap at the
- [61:17]
C
end of the day and we'll see how far they get. Because we were speaking with J. Towne earlier and he said in theory they could get through everything today, but the
- [61:26]
B
defense is projecting a lot. Yeah, it'll drag out, so. So all right, we'll be back soon, guys. Talk then.
- [61:37]
C
For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.