January 6, Five Years Later

Summary

The Charlie Kirk Show

Episode: January 6, Five Years Later

Date: January 6, 2026
Host: Charlie Kirk
Guests: Ben Berkwam (Real America’s Voice), Senator Ron Johnson (R-WI), with additional commentary from co-hosts/contributors

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Overview

In this special fifth-anniversary episode marking the events of January 6, 2021, Charlie Kirk and guests revisit and analyze the fallout and enduring controversies. The episode centers on the treatment of January 6 defendants, Biden-era immigration policy and voter integrity concerns, the alleged misuse of welfare, and skepticism toward the U.S. medical establishment’s vaccine policies. The show maintains its signature unapologetic, grassroots conservative viewpoint throughout, focusing heavily on themes of government overreach, double standards in justice, and the durability of American values.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Reflecting on January 6: Patriots or Perpetrators?

[01:09 – 10:23]

• Charlie opens by framing January 6 as less an “insurrection” and more as a moment of “patriots that largely did nothing wrong.”
• Ben Berkwam reports live from D.C., marching with January 6 supporters, drawing a distinction between peaceful pro-Trump protestors and federal “overreach” in prosecuting them.

“The bottom line is the message is very simple... until the people that orchestrated the real coup against President Trump... are held accountable, the American people aren't going to rest.”
—Ben Berkwam [03:29]

• Ben recounts stories of harsh and allegedly disproportionate treatment of January 6 detainees: lengthy solitary confinement, denied legal counsel, and ruined lives.
• Charlie underscores his own advocacy for Trump’s controversial, sweeping pardons for J6ers.

“I want people to know... pardon them all, pardon them all. And that’s ultimately what President Trump did.”
—Charlie Kirk [03:50]

• Personal Impact:

  • Many, like Coy Griffin, detained for non-violent actions, suffered severe consequences.
  • Some J6ers, unable to cope, died by suicide.

• Two-Tiered Justice Argument:

  • Sharp contrast drawn between the treatment of J6ers and left-wing protesters (e.g., BLM, Antifa), whom they claim were treated far more leniently despite greater violence and property damage.

“Most of the guys in BLM that were burning down their cities never even got charged. Most of antifa never even got charged. And so... it’s the two tiers of justice.”
—Ben Berkwam [07:46]

• Discussion pivots to the only fatality at the hands of police, Ashli Babbitt, and Officer Michael Byrd, highlighting perceived hypocrisy in media and legal responses.

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2. Venezuela, Maria Corina Machado, & U.S. Foreign Policy

[12:54 – 17:31]

• The show analyzes a recent New York Times story about the Trump administration’s complicated relationship with Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Corina Machado.
• Despite rumors that Trump soured on Machado due to her not declining the Nobel Peace Prize in his favor, the panel affirms the real reasons were her uncompromising stance and skepticism about her ability to unite the Venezuelan opposition.

“Our position is that she’s the valid opposition leader and that she, her proxy, won the election. So you kind of, you believe in elections or you don’t…”
—Co-host [17:08]

• US officials like Marco Rubio and Rick Grenell reportedly pushed for less direct support, fearing instability.

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3. Immigration, Welfare Fraud & the Fight for Political Power

[18:56 – 29:44]

• Extensive segment on the expansion of welfare and government dependency, focusing on alleged fraud among Somali immigrants in Minnesota.
• Senator Ron Johnson joins to stress the systemic, intentional design of Democrat policies to increase government control.

“They want to grow government so they can have the power to control other people’s lives… All these programs are designed to grow government, to make more people dependent on government, so they’ve got the power that people are dependent on voting them back into office.”
—Sen. Ron Johnson [21:03]

• The hosts contend that census counting of illegal immigrants skews Congressional representation and fosters Democrat electoral dominance.

• Allegations of Voter Fraud:

  • Discussion of ballot harvesting and assistance for non-English speakers in voting, casting doubt on the sanctity of the “secret ballot.”

“I remember accounts… you bring in everyone all at once. And they have the same guy going like, ‘that’s our guy. That’s our guy...’ really displaying the sanctity of the secret ballot.”
—Co-host [24:02]

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4. Election Integrity, The Filibuster, and a Conservative Path Forward

[29:44 – 37:47]

• Senator Johnson discusses the difficulty of reforming elections or passing immigration overhaul due to lack of political will—even among some Republicans.
• Strong advocacy for voter ID laws and a basic federal standard for elections.

“We have to restore integrity to our elections or this things over. Because the Democrats will cheat. They're designing the system to cheat and they’ll cheat.”
—Sen. Ron Johnson [33:51]

• In-depth debate about the filibuster: Should Republicans nuke it to pass priority legislation?
• Mike Lee's suggestion for a “talking filibuster” as an interim move, requiring Senators to maintain actual debate on the floor, is praised.

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5. Revisiting COVID-19 Vaccination Standards

[38:29 – 40:08]

• Conversation shifts to President Trump's decision to reduce recommended childhood vaccines in line with European standards.
• Senator Johnson, referencing Bobby Kennedy and Aaron Siri, criticizes the medical establishment for insufficient studies on vaccine safety and effectiveness.

“Our approach hasn't been rational this day. So again, it's a great first step.”
—Sen. Ron Johnson [39:36]

• The host and Johnson encourage skepticism and independent research regarding vaccine mandates and public health guidance.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On January 6 and Pardons:

  “I want people to know... pardon them all, pardon them all. And that’s ultimately what President Trump did.”
  [03:50] —Charlie Kirk

• On Two-Tiered Justice:

  “Most of the guys in BLM that were burning down their cities never even got charged... it’s the two tiers of justice.”
  [07:46] —Ben Berkwam

• On Welfare and Dependency:

  “They want to grow government so they can have the power to control other people’s lives… so they’ve got the power that people are dependent on voting them back into office.”
  [21:03] —Sen. Ron Johnson

• On Voter Fraud Allegations:

  “They could say they have nine people living in an apartment... they’re gonna send them nine ballots.”
  [23:54] —Co-host (paraphrasing Minnesota sources)

• On Election Integrity:

  “We have to restore integrity to our elections or this thing’s over. Because the Democrats will cheat."
  [33:51] —Sen. Ron Johnson

• On Vaccine Policymaking:

  “There’s a much more rational way approaching this. Our approach hasn’t been rational this day. So again, it’s a great first step.”
  [39:36] —Sen. Ron Johnson

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:09 – 10:23: January 6 anniversary reflections; J6ers, pardons, alleged mistreatment, and media double standards
• 12:54 – 17:31: Venezuela, Maria Corina Machado, opposition politics, and U.S. foreign policy
• 18:56 – 29:44: Immigration, welfare fraud in Minnesota, impacts on political power, and voting system vulnerabilities
• 29:44 – 37:47: Election reform, filibuster debate, legislative priorities for conservatives
• 38:29 – 40:08: Vaccination policies, criticism of medical establishment, and call for more rigorous science

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Summary Takeaways

• The episode invokes January 6 as a symbol of governmental and media overreach, with the hosts reiterating their support for Trump and the “J6ers.”
• Guests and co-hosts alike frame contemporary American politics as a struggle between grassroots, law-abiding patriots and an entrenched, manipulative “regime.”
• Immigration and voter fraud are painted as existential threats to the republic, while skepticism of elite narratives—whether about elections or public health—remains a constant.
• The show ends as it began: urging listeners toward activism and political engagement, especially focused on reforms to voter integrity and American sovereignty.

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To delve deeper or hear firsthand perspectives, visit The Charlie Kirk Show.

Transcript

[A]

My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro American student organization in the country, fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You gotta stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a Turning Point USA College chapter. Go start a Turning Point USA High School chapter. Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade. Most important decision I ever made in my life. And I encourage you to do the same. Here I am, Lord.

[B]

Use me.

[A]

Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. The Charlie Kirk show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold. But the leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends and viewers.

[C]

All right. Welcome to the Charlie Kirk show. It's January 6th, 5th anniversary of the.

[B]

5Th anniversary of the new Pearl Harbor. Yes, the greatest attack on our democracy.

[C]

Well, it was a great attack on patriots that largely did nothing wrong. Most of whom were attacked should have probably just been.

[B]

We did the greatest manhunt. We did the greatest manhunt in American.

[C]

History for what could have been settled with a mere trespassing charge. And actually, on that note, we here at the Charlie Kirk show are going to pay tribute to some of these patriots that are in Washington, D.C. marching to raise awareness of injustices that are still unaccounted for. And to help us do that is Ben Berkwum, Real America's Voice, national correspondent and host of Law and Border on Real America's Voice. Ben, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show. Tell us what you're doing on the ground and what. Yeah, there you are, walking backwards. Beautiful sight. Ben, tell us what's going on in D.C. let me just give you the.

[D]

Lay of the land. So five years ago today, I was freezing on the Ellipse. The Ellipse is right over here. We've got the White House right off to my left. We've got the Washington Monument off to our right. This entire area five years ago was packed full of patriotic Americans who love this country, who wanted one simple thing was the truth about the 2020 elections that the majority, at least MAGA know was stolen. And so they came to peacefully assemble. President Trump said peacefully march. And we went down. And we saw what happened that day. One thing Andrew. And as we're getting up here, we're going to get to some of the, the folks that are going to be marching. There's over 200 January Sixers that are here. God bless you guys. You should be thankful. You live in a free country. God bless President Trump, huh?

[C]

Good for you, Ben.

[D]

And so, but this is the, this is the, you look at what happened, the injustice that happened to these guys, and you compare that to where we're at now in our country. And the bottom line is the message is very simple. We've started it. Thank God President Trump won the election. Thank God he made the pardons. But until the people that orchestrated the real coup against President Trump, the four years of a coup against President Trump, the insurrection against President Trump, all of the Russia collusion, hoax, all of that nonsense, the impeachments, everything else, until they're held accountable, the deep state's held accountable, the American people aren't going to rest. And so that's what we're here today. We're going to be talking to some of those 200 January Sixers and helping, you know, get their stories out. Some of them still struggling, many of them not here today, committed suicide. And so it's just, you know, it's a bittersweet day, but thank God they're out.

[C]

Yeah. Ben, two points on this. One is people don't really know this part of the story behind the pardons of the J6ers, but when that was getting debated during the transition, actually, Charlie was in the room and spoke up very vociferously on their behalf and said, pardon them all, pardon them all. And that's ultimately what President Trump did. So I want people to know that piece of the story. And I remember when he told me about that and I said, good for you. Second piece here, Ben, for the audience, please. You talk about the personal stories. I mean, a lot of these people should have, if anything, right? They should have been maybe a trespassing charge. Instead, there was this manhunt across the country. Homes were raided, families disrupted, pregnant wives left without their husbands. And then they were placed in, you know, these jail cells, the gulag inside of DC Tell us more about some of the personal stories from these J6 political prisoners that you have heard on the ground.

[D]

Well, first to your first point about Charlie and America Mrs. Charlie Every single day. Charlie was the so instrumental in not just getting President Trump elected, but really this, this MAGA genesis in the next generation and Gen Z and the next generation. But the seeds that Charlie planted, we're seeing the fruits of those, and I pray we continue to see the fruits of those every day. And to your point, what Charlie said is the only way it could have happened, because to parse through every single one of these. I think of my friend Coy Griffin, who was there that day, never went inside the building. He's cowboys for Trump. He went up there, had a megaphone, and simply went up on the steps to pray over the crowd. He got on a megaphone, prayed over the crowd, and. And then he left. He got stuck in solitary confinement for two weeks. He wasn't able to see an attorney, wasn't able to call a family member, slept on a cold floor for praying on a megaphone. And there's story after story after story like that, as you mentioned, trespassing. That's the worst that some people did, not even knowing they were trespassing. When it was a fence, basically like this, it was green, this is metal, it was plastic that was taken down within minutes before I even arrived. We marched from this location down to the house. When I got there, there were no fences up. You had no idea that there was any barricade that anyone had crossed through. And so a lot of people entered that day, that space, not even realizing that they were breaking the law, going into a place. Now, obviously we saw some of the violence. We saw the attacks. The question is how much of that was instigated? We're only getting. We're only getting the tip of the iceberg on how involved the federal government was. How many FBI agents were there? Which ones of those actually instigated anything? How many ANTIFA and BLM members were there? We know John Sullivan, we know many other BLM and Antifa were there to instigate violence. But the. The bottom line is we don't know. We still know less than we know. There's a lot we don't know. And the question is, will we ever get to the bottom of it? But to the stories, it's just crazy. I mean, they weren't given Shane Jenkins, big dude, big burly guy. You look at him, you think, man, that's a tough guy. When he talks about just sitting in that cell. He was in there for over a thousand days. There were months that he went where he couldn't brush his teeth, he couldn't clip his nails, he couldn't. No haircuts. I mean, little simple things like that, but just treated like animals. And you compare the way that January 6ers were treated compared to BLM and Antifa who were burning down our country for four years, who were actually trying to destroy our country from within, who professed that they want to destroy America, they, they want to remake it and their anarchist communist vision. When we're talking about January 6th, we're talking about patriots that love this country, that want to restore the values of this nation. So huge difference between the people that were arrested and the way they were treated from all of the real insurrectionists that got away with it. Most of the guys in BLM that were burning down their cities never even got charged. Most of antifa never even got charged. And so that's the, when you look at it, it's the two tiers of justice, Ben.

[C]

A lot of those BLM rioters got settlements from the cities that they helped burn down.

[D]

That's so crazy.

[C]

So that's when you talk about anarcho tyranny. It's the law abiding people that try and do things the right way that the regime will target and harass. And it's the rioters, the lawbreakers, the criminals, the illegal immigrants that get free pass. They get money, they get subsidies and then they get settlements from blue states and blue cities. You know what's an interesting story? You could throw this up. 212 reporting from Paul Sperry. New records show U.S. capitol Captain Michael Byrd, who fatally shot unarmed J6 protester Ashley Babbitt without warning, has been running an unaccredited daycare center with wife Koleska from their Maryland home since 2008. Maryland has received over $190 million in HHS daycare funds.

[B]

Well, if it's unaccredited, is the idea that they're not right?

[C]

Apparently.

[B]

I don't think I'm ever going to.

[C]

Get mad at someone for running an unaccredited questions emerged. You can throw up 200. And it's just funny how these different storylines, Ben, seem to overlap. So this is from town Hall. On January 6, questions emerge about Michael Byrd's taxpayer funded Maryland daycare. That's out of town hall. So.

[D]

Well, think about.

[C]

It's just, it's just one of those funny, funny overlaps.

[D]

Yeah. Think about the way Michael Byrd was treated while BLM was raging across America. He shoots without warning, as you mentioned, an unarmed civilian who, a veteran of our country who is simply there, you know, again, wanting answers to a stolen election, shoots and kills her. No accountability. In fact, he gets promoted. And you look at how officers were treated, obviously George, Floyd and Chauvin and that whole charade, how they were treated. But the difference between the left and the activist response to it. Byrd became a hero to the left for murdering Ashley Babbitt, while other cops who actually were doing their jobs against real criminals were demonized and ostracized and lost their jobs many times. It is, it's, again, it all goes back to that double standard. But then you also compare that now to what we're finally finding out. I mean, how did it take this long to get some answers, shout out to Nick Shirley and the work he did, but to get some answers on this fraud and shout out to Doge, the only real reason that we have most of these, all of this fraud information about all these fake daycares is because of Doge.

[C]

I got a wrap, Ben, but give our love to Mickey, Ashley's mom. I saw that she's there with you. God bless you, sir. Thanks for putting a spotlight on this important story.

[D]

God bless you guys. Talk to you soon.

[C]

Candles were lit on Bondi beach by families, by children, by people of faith to celebrate a festival of light, a festival from Bible times, one that Jesus himself celebrated. People gathered with hope, seeking unity and comfort in tradition. But instead of light, there was darkness, violence, fear, hatred showing itself at a time meant for prayer and rejoicing. Times like this remind us that even with the ceasefire in Israel, Jewish people are being targeted simply because of their faith. And times like this remind us why. The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews exists to stand in the gap, providing safety and security to God's people. The fellowship brings together Christians and Jews to be a light to suffering Jews in Israel, the former Soviet Union, or wherever the needs are greatest. Together, we can make a real difference in the lives of those who need hope the most. Your gift today will help provide the security that God's people so desperately need. Visit urgentifcj.org that's one word. Urgentifcj.org or call now at 866338 IFCJ. That's 866-338-4325. Very proud of the real America's Voice team being on the ground with Ben Berkwan, putting the resources on the ground to highlight some of the stories of. And listen, whatever you think about January 6th, whatever you think about it, because, yeah, we shouldn't have been, you know, going inside a capitol. But I remember, by the way, Blake, I remember doing that show live that morning with Charlie from Phoenix and being like, please get out. Please get out. Because we knew what they were going to do. They were going to use this against us.

[B]

It was so obviously bad it was.

[C]

So, yes, but regardless of what, you know, what you think about the particulars on that day, these were a lot of really amazing patriots that got caught up in a dragnet, in a manhunt, as you said in the first segment, that should have been reserved for the likes of Nicholas Maduro. The way that they came in, guns, a blazing, raiding these people's homes was an absolute travesty and a miscarriage of justice. And I'm glad that we're celebrating their stories because so many of these people had their lives absolutely ruined for basically a trespassing charge. Okay. All right, moving on to our next story here. This story made me think of you, Blake, and that's why we put it on the rundown here. And that is the New York Times has come out with a whole piece about why Trump and the Trump administration has soured on Machado. Now, Machado is the.

[B]

Machado.

[C]

Machado.

[B]

It's like the old SNL bit. You got to Venezuela.

[C]

So there was rumors going around that. That Trump had lost faith in her because she didn't deny the Nobel Peace Prize.

[B]

And so we should apply some context to this.

[C]

Give us the context.

[B]

Machado was the candidate in the most recent. Venezuela or she. No, they evicted her. She was going to be the candidate.

[C]

She couldn't run.

[B]

She couldn't run.

[C]

So she had sort of a proxy, so.

[B]

Yes, exactly. Her location apparently is unknown right now.

[C]

Yes, she's been under threat for a long time.

[B]

And then the other guy was in. I think he fled the country for Spain.

[C]

Yes, that's correct.

[B]

So. But she was the opposition leader. So she was a common figurehead for the Venezuelan opposition. And then right after they abducted Maduro, it seemed plausible that they would say, okay, install the opposition leader because we'd been endorsing the Venezuelan opposition.

[C]

We said they actually won election and she got the Nobel Peace Prize. It was an assumption.

[B]

It was an assumption. And then she won the Nobel Peace Prize back in October instead of Trump, and Trump was just very publicly campaigning for that award in. In an interesting way. And they awarded it to her instead. She actually did. Even the day she received it, she dedicated it to Trump. Yes, but apparently they believed she should have also.

[C]

Hold on to. Now, this was a rumor. It's unsubstantiated, but it was.

[B]

It was stated. It was reported by the Washington Post, so.

[C]

So they. Which we know never lies about anything.

[B]

The Washington Post has sources in the White House, so.

[C]

So the rumor has been going around that Trump soured on Machado because she didn't just decline the award and offer it to Trump. I thought that that sounded silly. Okay. So there's a big piece in the New York Times that is detailing why the Trump administration decided not to back Maria Karina Machado as Maduro's replacement. And it has nothing to do with her winning the Nobel Peace Prize. So I don't know if you want to take this or if you.

[D]

Sure.

[B]

Well, what's probably most interesting about it is it seems honestly the first bullet point that of it is the most interesting which is apparently Marco Rubio talked President Trump.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Out of doing it. He said I'll quote from Ryan. Saved your summary. If the United States tried to back the opposition, it could further destabilize the country and require a more robust military presence inside of it. And a classified CIA intelligence analysis reflected that view. They were also frustrated that they believed her assessments of the situation in Venezuela were inaccurate, that she underestimated Maduro's strength, that they were skeptical of her ability to seize power. Apparently Rick Grinnell would go and have meetings and he was just very annoyed with her.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, he tried to have an in person meeting. The US tried to guarantee her security and apparently she refused to do that or somehow didn't materialize despite those promises and those assurances of security. But also they asked for a list of political prisoners. Apparently that didn't happen. Over time the relationship deteriorated. According to people briefed on the interactions, Machado and her team ignored the request for a list of political prisoners. So there was also this issue that Machado had been taking a pretty forceful stance asking for more sanctions against Maduro backed businesses and products.

[B]

The whole thing is she does and.

[C]

That that alienated her from the business class.

[B]

She. Well she comes off as just generally being very uncompromising. So it has like for example, Machado was upset that Rick Grenell did not denounce Maduro as illegitimate when Grinnell believed that that would undercut any diplomatic thing. Yeah, they were position was no negotiations with Maduro's government.

[C]

They were still trying to have a conversation.

[E]

Right.

[B]

So we were open to a negotiated exit for Maduro and she seemed to kind of have the attitude of Maduro just has to quit. And so it just seems they got very fed up with her, which is a very good adventure in third world politics.

[C]

I suppose it sounds like she basically there's reason to believe that she had alienated many members of Venezuela's like sort of elite. Right. The business class, the civil society.

[B]

Our position is that she's the valid opposition leader and that she, her proxy, won the election. So you kind of, you believe in elections or you don't as well. And I think the opening point is one of the most interesting, which is Rubio arguing if we back the opposition, it could destabilize the country. Reading between the lines there, that kind of suggests there's more support for the.

[C]

Regime if it was 70, 30 than.

[B]

They might have otherwise thought.

[C]

But I mean, even if it's 70, 30, you don't want to inflame the 30. I mean, that's a landslide by any measure. But you want to bring the entire country together as much as possible. So you want to, instead of picking favorites, picking sides, you want to establish a transition that makes a little bit more diplomatic sense. It's a brand new year and a brand new opportunity to change the world for the better. This is one of our most important partners. It's easier than you might think. You can save babies by providing ultrasounds with preborn together during this Sanctity of Human Life Month, we're going to save babies right here on the Charlie Kirk show to show the world that not only do we believe life is precious, but but we're going to do something about it. Your gift to preborn will give a girl the truth about what's happening in her body so that she can make the right choice. What better way to start this new year than to join us in saving babies? And $28 a month will save a baby a month all year long. 15,000. And I know there's some of you out there that can do this. A $15,000 gift will provide a complete ultrasound machine that will save thousands of babies for years and years to come and will also save moms from a lifetime of regret. So start this year right, by being a hero for life. Call 833-850-2229. That's 833-850-2229. Or click on the preborn banner at charliekirk.com today.

[E]

That was the game plan. Open up the borders, flood blue states with more people who be counted in the census. That gives them more members of Congress, make them more dependent on government. That grows government. That gives them greater power again. That is what the Democrat Party is all about.

[D]

Power. Again.

[E]

The shutdown wasn't about literally the enhanced subsidy. It was about making sure that President Trump has no success. They want, they're happy to take anybody hostage, whatever. Collateral damage, bad economy, so that they can win in November and retain power.

[C]

Democrats want power. They want to Rule over the ashes and they don't care how they get it. That was the point made by the great Senator Ron Johnson from the state of Wisconsin. He joins us now. Senator, welcome back to the show. It's great to you see. See you. I happen to be on that same show coming on after you. And I was watching the program. You were with Charlie Hurd. I was on a few segments later and I was watching you going like, he's absolutely right. And I texted your team, I was like, I gotta get him on to talk about this. Because what we're seeing in so many of these blue states and with this Somali fraud ring is you see that the tentacles of flooding the world with third worlders and illegal immigrants. And we're seeing now that this is not just fraud. This could have voting implications. You mentioned the census, maybe build out that point of what this scheme for power is really all about.

[E]

Well, happy New Year, guys.

[C]

Yeah, Happy New Year.

[E]

My concern about what's been uncovered in Minnesota with the Somali childcare fraud and Medicaid fraud, that type of thing, is that people say, okay, we found it. That's the problem. It's literally just the tip of the iceberg. These programs have been designed to be abused, to be difficult to really investigate and convict people based on fraud. But the bottom line, Democrats have always just sought power. To conservatives, it makes no sense. I mean, I've got enough dealings with my own life. I mean, why do I want to control somebody else's life? But that's what Democrats want to do. They want to grow government so they can have the power to control other people's lives. And in order to grow government, they've created all these programs that people sign up for. They daisy chain them. So you sign up for one, you qualify for another and another and another. They open the borders during Obama and then again during Biden to allow people to flood in this country. Very few people really understand that even illegal immigrants get counted in the census. So when you count in the census, then they basically reapportion the congressional seats. Those states, the sanctuary states that encourage the illegal immigrants to flood their states, they get more members of Congress, that means they've got more votes. And when you've got Congress as evenly divided as we are, one, two seats may make the difference between having Democrats in total control of government like they were when they passed Obamacare to carry out some other massive communist and socialist type of program that as we're seeing with Obamacare, is utterly failed. But it was designed to fail. So again, that's the whole point. All these programs are designed to grow government, to make more people dependent on government, so they've got the power that people are dependent on voting them back into office. It's sick to conservative. It makes no sense whatsoever. But that's exactly what Democrats are. That's what they're all about.

[C]

Yeah, well, I couldn't help but hear that you were echoing some of the sentiments from the great Stephen Miller. Play cut 210. This was not a loophole. The Biden administration, Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas devised a scheme to fly illegal aliens into the country and then to escort them en masse across the border by the millions and to give them something known as parole, which gives them a work permit, which gives them a social, which gives them a Social Security number, which gives them access to the voting booth. This was the plan all along to get them here illegally so they can get free government benefits, get hooked to welfare, and be able to participate in American elections. And one more clip here for you, Senator. This is from Nick Shirley and David. We had Nick Shirley on the show. We don't know David's last name, but he's a patriot in Minnesota that helped uncover this massive viral story. And now they're talking about how these Somali immigrants are engaging potentially. I mean, I think it's fairly certain in voter fraud. Play cut 219 and they're all Somali. You're talking probably 100,000 or more people, and they're all living rent free. They're driving a vehicle that you paid for. They're eating food that you paid for.

[D]

Everything they do is.

[E]

Is something that you paid for.

[C]

And for instance, that entire block will then go and vote for one specific candidate. They'll have one person go there and collect all the ballots, and nobody tracks.

[D]

They could say they have nine people living in an apartment.

[C]

They're gonna send them nine ballots, and.

[D]

Then they have someone who comes along.

[C]

Collects all the ballots. So the scheme, the jig is up.

[B]

Here, even when it's not that bad. I remember accounts like. So a lot of them don't speak English. So if you can't speak English, you're allowed to have an interpreter in the booth. And there's tons of accounts where you bring in everyone all at once. And they have the same guy going like, that's our guy. That's our guy. That's our guy. That's a guy. Yeah. Really, really making, you know, really displaying the sanctity of the secret ballot.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. It's so. Exactly. I mean, it seems like the jig is up. We pay these people to come here, we settle them, we give them free money, they loot the system, commit fraud and then they vote Democrat. The question is, what do you do about it now Senator?

[E]

Well, the problem is you've got about half the country that votes Democrat and they have no problem with this. They also want to get their guys and gals into office so they just look the other way. My concern about only focusing on what's happening in Minnesota and I'm happy to do that, we have to use that as a springboard to investigate all the fraud is I'm older than you guys. I live through the development of the, the big state, the war on poverty which has utterly failed. But what it did do is it grew government back then. When I grew up, my dad worked, my mom stayed at home. We weren't very wealthy, but we had a great life. Parents of faith, they love their kids, supportive homes, but that was the norm. You didn't need two earner families nowadays you can't really survive that way. And what's really tragic is the individuals that do work their tail off, you know, making 70, 80, 90,000 bucks a year in a place like Wisconsin, paying taxes, carrying the load for the people who then do videos on social media taunting the hard workers, saying look at all these benefits I'm getting. Take a look at how much money I've got on my EBT card. Thank you for funding my lifestyle. It is just galling. And you take a look at some of the work by people like former senator Phil Graham that talks about on average people benefiting from the welfare state, not get down about $57,000 a year tax free benefits considering the death, they don't have to work. Which is why I've got about 20% of the adult male population out of the workforce permanently. Because they don't have to. We pay them not to work. We now pay for their health care. And the Medicaid expansion, the Obamacare expansion and Medicaid is crowding out disabled children from providers because it's more lucrative to get reimbursed $9 to $1 for a single adult. So again, this has been designed. Obamacare was designed to make people dependent on government for the healthcare so it could be abused, you know, provider tax, I mean I could go on and on and on. This is by design. This is exactly what the Democrat party set out to do and it's worked marvelously well for them. It's terrible for America.

[C]

So is the issue, Senator, in This block grant, the way it's sort of like the federal government's giving money to a state like Minnesota or Wisconsin or wherever Ohio, and then the state is then entrusted with policing the system. But if you get a state like Minnesota where the Democrat politicians are incentivized, especially with a community that, that votes and blocks, like the Somali community, they're incentivized to then turn the other cheek, to turn a blind eye to the fraud right in front of them. Is that the problem with the system or is it run deeper than that?

[E]

The overall problem is just the mass amount of money we spend. GAO issues an improper payment report. Since 2003, since that point in time, they've logged about $2.8 trillion of improper payments. Now, that's a very imprecise term. That also is probably just the tip of the iceberg. So, yeah, I mean, the federal government is the easiest entity to fleece, and so it gets fleeced all the time. And I keep pointing out, you know, the Somalis, they're relatively new to this country. They're amateurs relative to the entrenched interest. You know, the military industrial complex, I can tell you story after story of small businesses who create a product for the defense industry. They sold it at pennies on the dollar versus what the, the big contractor bought them and then started charging the Defense Department for. So again, we get fleeced across the board on every, in every program of government. So the solution is you have to reduce the size, scope and cost government. But that's not the path we're on. And regrettably, you know, I was one of the big holdouts on, on the reconciliation bill because I was imploring, I was begging the administration, my colleagues, you guys, we have to return to a reasonable pre pandemic global spending. This is absurd. We went from 4 trillion to over $7 trillion. We have to return to a reasonable baseline. But you know, doing those types of spending reductions, that kind of constraint, it's not politically popular. It's often said here in Washington D.C. show me a member of Congress. Whoever lost because they spent too much money, you can't. And that's until the public, until the public demands it. And that's the beauty of the Nick Shirley video, is the working people of this country, and the question is, are there enough of them, they've seen that, that are properly outraged by how they are getting screwed, how they're being taken advantage of. These people then go on social media and taunt them for giving them this lifestyle where they don't have to work. You work your tail off. You pay the taxes, and I'll live in the lap of luxury off of the benefits you provide me. Are there enough Americans? Have we already crossed that Rubicon where there are too many people gonna vote themselves benefits? Vote for Democrats, and this democracy, this republic, is over? That's the $64,000 question. I can't answer it.

[C]

Well, it's a terrifying fork in the road that you're presenting. It's something Blake and I argue about off the air all the time. Is there enough virtue left in the people? You know, we often say that you get the leaders that you deserve. And, you know, Charlie's message was always like, be a type of person worthy of great leadership. It starts individually. Are there enough good people left? Right. And that is the question. The other question, though, Senator, is, you know, how do we reform our election so that, you know, Somali, one Somali can collect eight different ballots. Nobody checks it, just hands them all in. And that's, you know, Trump was mentioning it this morning in front of the House GOP guys. The SAVE act play cut 220.

[D]

You ought to have voter ID. You ought to insist on it.

[E]

You ought to insist on it.

[D]

The only reason somebody doesn't want that.

[C]

Is because they want to cheat.

[E]

And you were to pass the SAFE act or whatever you're gonna call.

[C]

I mean, so it's getting mentioned again, Senator, is there any hope of this? Is there any political will? Do we have the votes?

[E]

One of the reasons I reluctantly, again, I think the filibuster has prevented us from being a socialist nation for decades. But Democrats, they're gonna get rid of the filibuster, so we better beat them to the punch. And to do it so we actually pass pieces of legislation like the SAVE act, some overall federal controls, and the controls we have put in place are the same things our State Department advises other nations to hold free and fair elections. We don't follow our own advice. Okay.

[C]

This is Lane Schoenberger, chief investment officer and founding partner of Y Refi. It has been an honor and a privilege to partner with Turning Point. And for Charlie to endorse us, his endorsement means the world to us. And we look forward to continuing our partnership with Turningpoint for years to come. Now here, Charlie, in his own words, tell you about why Refi.

[A]

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[C]

Senator Ron Johnson, you brought up, you opened a huge can of worms. You said something that Blake and I have been having ongoing debates about, the filibuster. I am still on the fence because I don't believe with Murkowski and Susan COLLINS and Mitch McConnell right now that we even have the votes to do much anything good. Rand Paul's always a wild card. Maybe get 50 plus 1 on some of these.

[B]

The concern is do we eliminate the filibuster and then we're not able to pass anything other than the most, you know, oh, we avoid another government shutdown. And then Democrats take power and it's just that much easier for them to tee off on their much more explicit, ambitious agenda. You know, national abortion, national, you know, D.C. statehood, Puerto Rico statehood, a lot of stuff that they've talked about packing the courts.

[E]

Well, first of all, they're gonna do that when they regain power. They purged the two senators that prevented that last time. Again, it's unfortunate they don't respect the minority rights in the Senate. So the first step would be to lay out the powerful agenda that we could pass. And that will take precedential leadership. And I'm not talking about a laundry list of, you know, three or four dozen items. I'm talking about the three or four or five things that we must do, starting with restoring our elections. And that's, you know, Democrats use Covid. They exploited it. They completely contrary to the Baker Carter bipartisan commission, said that absentee balloting is probably the greatest threat to election integrity.

[C]

Correct.

[E]

They juiced it, you know, doubled the number of absentee ballots. They have mail in balloting, which is why I think Biden, if he actually got the 80 million votes, whatever he got, I mean, that's a joke. So again, we've got, we have to restore integrity to our elections or this Thing's over. Because the Democrats will cheat. They're designing the system to cheat and they'll cheat.

[C]

Yeah, no, I totally agree. You know, so my question. So my big white whale is the voting integrity voter id, but it's also immigration. And I don't believe that we have the political will or the motivation within either the House or the Senate to get real immigration work done. And I mean, listen, I'm in favor of a net zero immigration moratorium. I get it, not everybody's on that wavelength with me. But we cannot be flooding our country. It's not just illegal immigrants, Senator. There is 1.2 million green cards to legals. Family reunification, chain migration, visa lottery, diversity lottery. All this stuff's gotta go. I mean, we don't need it. We got the AI revolution nipping at our heels. We're not gonna need a lot of these jobs, robotics even for things like farming and different industries that have typically been the ones that are loudest in the room trying to get more immigrants into the country. We're watching the eraser of American culture before our eyes. And you think about how many babies different immigrants groups are having compared to native born Americans. This thing is a ticking time bomb and we're gonna lose the country if we don't get that done. But we don't have it. So if I'm gonna do filibuster, nuke the filibuster. That's what I want. I want those two things. I don't know your reaction to that. And if there's anything else on your laundry list that you think we need to get done.

[E]

Well, the major thing Democrats exploited in our immigration law was credible fear, the incredibly low standard versus the standard for actual asylum, which is kind of hard to prove. And so we've got to get that initial hurdle much closer to the general asylum standard. That should be a reasonably easy fix, not really complex legislatively. But again, you start with these are the things that have to be done, make sure that we've got the votes to do it. I wouldn't nuke this filibuster until we have that done. Now, short of that, and Mike Lee's the champion of this, we could also stay here in town, stay in legislative session and do a talking filibuster. And you really need to talk to Mike Lee, how you do that.

[C]

We had him on. Yeah, I like that idea. I actually like that.

[E]

So we actually discussed that this morning, myself and Rick Scott and Mike Lee. We need to start talking to our colleagues about that because right now you don't have the votes for Limbian to filibuster. That's just true. But I think we need to express our colleagues in the Republican conference. Go. Okay. Short of that, there are things we have to do and we talked actually starting about saving with. Start with the SAVE Act. Let's take that basic step to restore that level of integrity. Again. I don't wanna take over elections. That's a slippery slope. But there have to be some basic federal standards for elections that states have to follow so that we have free and fair elections that don't produce illegitimate votes.

[C]

Well, God bless you for that. I endorse Senator Lees. Cause that would be. I mean the question is Thune, at that point would you know, Senator Thune be on board with changing the rules and make people actually sit and stand on the Senate floor and argue until they lose steam? I don't know. You would know better. Is there any appetite from Senator Thune?

[E]

Well, we've got to sell it. I come from a manufacturing background. So what I suggest is we need to put the Senate when we do that on a continuous shift, do a scale down staff. I mean I don't want to abuse Senate staff, but I mean it's pretty easy. You put three shifts, people come in eight, eight hour shifts. You know, we've got to be around available, don't have to be on the floor, but we just have to be available in case there's a quorum call or whatever. So it's entirely doable. You just have to have the will to do it. I always drove my kids nuts to say, you know, three quarters of the word can't is can. It just requires willpower.

[C]

So again I could imagine being frustrated as your is your is your child if you kept, kept hitting me with that one. But yes, absolutely, I totally agree. You just need to have the political will. And I just, I hope for the best from Senator Thune. I just, I don't hold my breath unfortunately. I want to get to one other topic here really quick. Yesterday the President announced that we are. It's a big win for maha going from 72 jabs for children and they're moving it down more in alignment with European some of the other industrialized nations. 11 injections. What do you make of this? You were huge when it came to fighting the COVID jabs. And so I wanted to get your comments on that. Senator.

[E]

An incredibly important first step. I give Bobby Kennedy and the President all the credit in the world for doing this. I'm sure it's not popular in the medical establishment who, let's face it, they really do not understand that much about vaccines. They're just told they're safe and effective and then they move forward. Okay. So I would recommend your listeners read Vaccines Amen by Aaron Seri. There's a lot of good books. McCulloch has a good one out. Dissolving illusions turtles all the way down. But one that brings it all together most powerfully is Aaron series vaccines. Read that and you'll start coming to understand really what a reasonable debate is about vaccines and how we should approach it. But I'm happy that we're going more to our European model, spacing them out and do real science. And that's what takes time because we have not had true rigorous studies on the safety and effectiveness of these vaccines. We simply haven't. And that's what Bobby Kennedy's been pointing out. That's what Aaron Serie proves in his book. There's a much more rational way approaching this. Our approach hasn't been rational this day. So again, it's a great first step.

[C]

We had Aaron Seri on the show for a long form conversation and it was fascinating. I learned a ton. He cross examined some of these big pharma folks that are supposed to be experts in injections and vaccines in depositions and gets them to admit that there hasn't been studies on these. And it's just, I mean, it will blow your mind when you hear the lack of evidence of science that backs some of these broad, sweeping mandates for our children.

[E]

It should outrage all of your listeners to the extent that we've been lied to by the medical Sam from our federal health agencies. We're not being lied to anymore with Bobby Kennedy and President Trump.

[C]

God bless you, Senator. We'll have you back on again soon. Thank you. Take care.

[B]

For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.

[C]

Com.