Liberty Vs Lockdowns 2.0 with David Harris Jr. and Ryan Helfenbein

Summary

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The Charlie Kirk Show

Liberty Vs Lockdowns 2.0 with David Harris Jr. and Ryan Helfenbein

Date: June 27, 2020

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Episode Overview

This episode features Charlie Kirk joined by Ryan Helfenbein (Executive Director, Falkirk Center for Faith and Liberty) and David Harris Jr. (author and commentator) in a roundtable discussion on the intersection of faith, freedom, and the immense societal upheaval of mid-2020. They break down government responses to COVID-19, the effectiveness and morality of lockdowns, the state of liberty in America, the aftermath of George Floyd’s death, the questions around systemic racism, and the moral foundations of the United States. Combining personal reflections, policy critique, and philosophical debate, this episode takes a no-holds-barred, unapologetically conservative approach to the cultural and political crises of the time.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reflections on COVID-19 & Government Lockdowns

Main Theme: Government overreach, the balance between public safety and liberty, skepticism toward "experts".

• Lockdowns as Overreach:

  • Charlie: “The lockdowns did way more damage than was ever originally estimated… It was an outrageous abuse of power against Christendom, against the kingdom, and against patriotic Americans.” (02:49)
  • David: Recounts how a well-connected billionaire acquaintance initially warned him of a catastrophic virus threat, but was later proven wrong as mortality data emerged.

• Skepticism of 'Experts':

  • Charlie: “I am inherently distrustful of the expert community because there’s a very low cost to being wrong and very little reward to being correct.” (03:40)
  • Points out Fauci admitting to misleading the public initially on masks.

• Liberty vs. Safety:

  • Charlie: “You cannot have freedom without responsibility... If I’m going to incur some form of risk for that, so be it.” (04:18)
  • David: “Do not restrict me from being able to go to church, go to work and be able to travel as I see fit.” (04:38)

• Early Data & Containment:

  • Cites Princess Cruise ship as an early case study showing contained infection/fatality rates.
  • Calls media response and continued school closures “immoral.” (10:14)

Notable Quote:

"We saw the Princess Cruise... that data has been nearly within like 0.001% of now, the macro data." — Charlie (09:41)

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2. The Role of Faith & Essential Freedoms

• The importance of church, faith, and religious freedom is central to the conversation.

• Ryan: “The place where Christ is king, church is essential, and freedom... is everything.” (01:51)

• Laments churches being targeted more than other organizations during the lockdowns.

• Liberty University Example:

  • Praises Jerry Falwell Jr. for keeping Liberty University open with reportedly no COVID-19 outbreaks among students. (08:26)

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3. Protests, Systemic Racism, and American Opportunity

Main Theme: Evaluating claims of systemic racism; defending America's progress toward equality.

• Systemic Racism Debate:

  • David: “There was systemic racism in our country up to a certain point... but I don’t believe today we have an issue with systemic racism.” (12:00)
  • Points to statistical data on police shootings and personal business success as counter-evidence.

• Systemic Injustice vs. Systemic Racism:

  • Charlie: “Admitting that there might be systemic injustice is not the same thing as saying systemic racism.” (14:08)
  • Argues the black community’s current challenges are not solely due to racism, but also to policy changes like the Great Society programs (LBJ era), which, he claims, increased single-motherhood rates. (16:38)

• Affirmative Action Critique:

  • Charlie: “Affirmative action is… incredibly racist and I actually think it hurts black people.” (15:30)

Notable Quote:

"We are systemically unracist as a country. I actually think we have to go out of our way to find injustice." — Charlie (17:18)

• Jussie Smollett & Bubba Wallace Reference:
  • Satirically addresses recent high-profile race hoaxes as evidence of a society eager to find (or fabricate) racism. (17:32-18:07)

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4. Patriotism, Christianity, and American Exceptionalism

• Can You Love Jesus and America?

  • Ryan/Charlie: Responding to critics who claim you can’t love America and Christ simultaneously.
  • Charlie: “America is the greatest country ever to exist in the history of the world. The kingdom has expanded more because of America than any other country.” (19:37)
  • Clarifies that while God/family come first, love of country and patriotism are biblically compatible. (20:04)

• Types of Equality Defined:

  • Equality under law (necessary and good); equality of opportunity (admirable); equality of outcome (evil, “Marxism”). (20:12–21:09)

Notable Quote:

"If you even try to pursue equality of outcome, it’s actually against how people are made in the image of God… If you tried to equalize those through central planning, you are definitionally trying to normalize something that God may have gave someone more than someone else." — Charlie (21:09)

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5. Personal Reflections on the American Dream

David Harris Jr.:

• Shares his mixed-race family story, entrepreneurial success, and journey from drug addiction to faith. (22:00–24:41)
  • “America to me is freedom. America to me is… the land of opportunity. I've been provided so many opportunities and, and it is the true opportunity for, for us to pursue happiness.” (24:41)

Charlie Kirk:

• Details story of interviewing the President at age 26 without a college degree.
  • “Show me another country where that is even... I didn’t go to college. Like, that’s not supposed to happen.” (26:13)

Ryan Helfenbein:

• Emphasizes founding principles, gratitude for the opportunity, and the enduring relevance of America's biblical underpinnings. (28:18–28:50)

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6. Faith, America’s Future, and a Call for Engagement

• America’s survival is linked to faith in God.
  • David: “God will survive without America, but America will not survive without God.” (29:21)
  • Urges Americans, especially people of faith, to understand the country’s foundations and remain engaged.
• “If America is spared… it will be because of the believers that are believing for God’s will to be done in this country.” (29:44)

Notable Quote:

"It’s not a choice between either/or. It’s both. Love Jesus with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. Love your neighbor. Guess who your neighbor is. If you live in America... they’re Americans." — Ryan (29:44)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|-----------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:49 | Charlie | "The lockdowns did way more damage than was ever originally estimated..." | | 03:40 | Charlie | "I am inherently distrustful of the expert community..." | | 12:00 | David | "There was systemic racism in our country up to a certain point... but I don't believe today we have an issue with systemic racism." | | 17:18 | Charlie | "We are systemically unracist as a country. I actually think we have to go out of our way to find injustice." | | 19:37 | Charlie | "America is the greatest country ever to exist in the history of the world." | | 21:09 | Charlie | "If you even try to pursue equality of outcome, it’s actually against how people are made in the image of God..."| | 24:41 | David | "America to me is freedom. America to me is… the land of opportunity." | | 29:21 | David | "God will survive without America, but America will not survive without God." |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:51 – Opening reflections on faith, liberty, and lessons from 60 days of COVID crisis
• 02:49–05:00 – The failures and costs of nationwide lockdowns
• 06:00–08:30 – Early responses to COVID-19; Trump’s travel bans and Liberty University’s stance
• 09:41–10:31 – Princess Cruise as microcosm of virus transmission and outcomes
• 12:00–16:38 – Conversation shifts to systemic racism, police, and American opportunity
• 20:12–21:09 – Three types of equality and the case against equality of outcome
• 22:00–24:56 – David Harris Jr. on personal journey, faith, and American possibility
• 26:13 – Charlie’s experience interviewing President Trump, success without college
• 28:18–29:21 – Final exhortations on faith, God, and America’s future

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Closing Thoughts

The panel implores listeners to resist panic, demand responsible government, cherish their American freedoms, and ground their beliefs in faith and rational analysis. All three urge renewed engagement in civic life, arguing that individual liberty, faith, and America’s founding principles remain the best hope for overcoming crisis and division.

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Transcript

[A]

Thank you for listening to this Podcast

[B]

1 production now available on Apple Podcasts,

[A]

Podcast 1, Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcasts.

[B]

Hey, everybody. Today on the Charlie Kirk Show, I sit down with two dear friends of mine, Ryan Helfenbein at the Falkirk center for Faith and Liberty, and David Harris Jr. Who is cross posting this episode. So God bless him for everything he does for our country. It's a great conversation about the Chinese coronavirus and so much more. We talk about faith and liberty and it also Liberty University. Terrific school. You guys are gonna love this conversation. Email me your questions. Freedomcharliekirk.com Freedom charliekirk.com Make sure you go back in the archives and listen to my episode with President Donald Trump. You guys are going to enjoy it. Buckle up, everybody. It's a great conversation. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

[C]

Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

[A]

I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

[B]

Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are gonna fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Hey, everybody. Welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show. I am joined by two dear friends of mine, Ryan Helfenbein, the head and executive director of the Falkirk center for Faith and Liberty, which is an amazing effort, and a fellow at the Falkirk center for Faith and Liberty, David Harris, Jr. He's also going to be posting this on his feed.

[A]

Yes, I am.

[B]

So say hi, because this will be on your feed.

[A]

Hello, everybody. David J. Harris Jr. Here, and I'm excited to be here with two of my brothers.

[B]

So what's going to be fun is now I am going to yield the floor because I'm going to be a guest on my own show. And David will be a guest on his own show because this is being posted everywhere.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Ryan, you are now the host of the Charlie Kirk Show.

[C]

Dude, I am humbled by this. One of the things we say over at the Falkirk center, this is the place where Christ is king, church is essential, and freedom, Charlie, which we know, we all agree on this. Everybody who's listening, freedom is everything. And so 100%, I just, you know, the last 60 days have been nuts. I kind of, you know, it's I'm looking at this as an opportunity to recap, you know, to actually, like, what have we learned over the past 60 days? Let's start with COVID 19. So we. We have seen failure after failure after failure. We've seen government lockdowns. We've seen localities in churches that have been closed. We're even seeing the effects of it even now with. With masks being worn everywhere. But I want to get your thoughts, your reflection.

[B]

Yeah. I don't think that. I don't think it's over yet, because now they're trying to re. Lock down the country.

[C]

Right.

[B]

However, the lesson should already be very clear.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Which is that the lockdowns did way more damage than I think it was ever originally estimated. I mean, I have to say all three of us were part of the community that thought that we were going way too far, too early. And I remember exchanging messages with you guys, you know, a couple weeks out from Easter. I was like, this is not good.

[C]

No.

[B]

And that wasn't the whole consensus in the conservative movement at the time. Time. Some people like, no, let's just wait it out. And I think it's pretty well accepted that it was an outrageous abuse of power against Christendom, against the kingdom, and against patriotic Americans.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

So the biggest lesson for me is one that I took. I take into the news cycle, into my life every single day, which is to be an independent thinker, be highly skeptical and rooted, yoke yourself in reason.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Not an outrage or in rage in general. And I actually am inherently distrustful of the expert community because there's actually a. There's a very low price.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

To be wrong. Very low cost to be wrong. And a very little reward to be correct.

[C]

Foushee has paid a tremendous. Wait. No, actually, that's wrong.

[B]

You're right.

[C]

You're right. Fauci hasn't paid anything.

[B]

And so he came out and said, oh, we lied about the masks because we didn't have enough masks.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So we told you not to wear masks even though they might work or they might not work. And so now they're trying to re. Lock down the country in certain areas. We know lockdowns don't work.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I'm a huge opponent of nationwide forced draconian lockdowns. Shelter in place for nursing homes. Makes sense. And I'm just of the belief you cannot have freedom without responsibility. You cannot. And so if you want to do something foolish to yourself, you absolutely should have the liberty to do that. I'm not an advocate of that.

[C]

No.

[B]

But do not restrict me from being able to go to church, go to work and be able to travel as I see fit. And if I'm going to incur some form of risk for that, so be it.

[C]

Right?

[A]

That's freedom.

[B]

You can have freedom without responsibility, dangerous

[A]

freedom, but that's still freedom. You still have the freedom to do that. You should have the freedom to do that. So for COVID 19, for me, I actually had a friend of mine that is a billionaire that's very well connected that brought me information from the very beginning saying that this virus was man made. This virus was not released by accident. This virus is part sars, part mers, and also part hiv. And this virus has the potential to be worse than the Spanish flu. And he was sharing this with me like within a couple of weeks of this thing breaking. He was giving me other supporting data. I had him on my show a couple of times to talk about it. And he was very much a proponent for locking things down, shutting, shutting things down. He thought the stock market was going to hit 10,000. He was literally waiting for the absolute disaster. So there's, there's, there's two sides that could be accurate here. One, now that we've seen that it actually was not that disastrous, is it because the President made the early decisions that he did to shut down travel from China in January when he took so much heat over it January 21st, I believe nobody, he said that he was on a, in a discussion with 20 plus advisors and nobody agreed with him to shut travel down from China yet he did anyway. I believe that that was huge in thwarting the, you know, invasion of this thing from people that were carrying it. And it could have been 10 or 100 times worse had he not done that. The other side of the other side is that it's no worse than the flu because now that's what we're seeing. Now we're seeing. I interviewed Dr. Dan out of Kern county that owns and operates eight medical clinics that said he began to do his own testing. And in that testing he did, it came out to, you know, point 2% of the people basically were, were the, was, was the mortality rate and that so many more people than had been reported actually had COVID 19 and had gotten better from it. They had the antibodies. So the news was being skewed. So, you know, it's like you take both of these things into consideration, it could have been, I believe it absolutely would have been a lot greater had had a lot greater disaster had the President not taken Action, banned travel from China, banned travel from Europe, did what he did when he did. But at the same time, and I don't believe it was released by accident, but at the same time we also now see how the overreach was implemented by so many Democrat politicians, governors, mayors, that basically just threw the constitution out the window, seemed to target churches. And my hope is that well meaning Americans, believers, Democrats obviously and Republicans as well will realize how far some of these politicians are willing to go if they're given the opportunity to take that much power.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

Yeah. And so I want to differentiate lessons from the virus and the lockdown. Those are two different categories. Right. So the virus. We have some pretty good data that if you have comorbidities, if you're above the age of 60 and you're overweight, this is something you should be concerned about.

[A]

True.

[B]

However, if you are those things, if you're ever 60, overweight and you have comorbidities, you should be concerned. Every single flu season. I'm not saying this is the flu. It's similar in data wise there. However, every time there is a pathogen.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Those people should be concerned.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The nursing homes were a huge component of the data here. This idea that we are going to shut down schools. And I want to just applaud Liberty university. Jerry Falwell Jr. Amazing. I mean he deserves so much credit.

[A]

Jerry.

[B]

Great. Didn't shut down the school. I think it was like zero cases, right?

[C]

Yep, yep.

[B]

I don't want to misspeak but I think it was zero cases. That's what I heard. He took. He took it on the chin. Every media outlet after him and he's been vindicated and exonerated. No school should be closed this fall

[A]

except from the mainstream media. They haven't vindicated him.

[B]

No, of course they haven't. Examined.

[C]

The New York Times came and actually falsely reported.

[B]

They were. And I hope, I hope they're criminally accountable. They should be held accountable because they trespassed. It was absolutely slanderous. Liable is the worst thing. But I want to just say that the locked the virus. It's tough to say that we can control the virus. And I try to come with this at humility and I think it's just like a central planners. Let's just say it's a central planners dream. Yeah, it's a dream but I was going to say that. But it's. It's almost like they're. It's a syndrome is what I'm saying. It's central planning syndrome that we believe we can, we can metaphysically control the spread of a viral infection.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And I think that it almost makes us think we can play God a little bit.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I'm not saying you should do nothing. I'm not. That's not what I'm saying. But it would to the extent where you're going to shut down all of society and you act as if that is an appropriate reaction. I mean, we better be seeing 20% mortality rates if we're doing that. Right. I mean, like that. Right.

[A]

Even five.

[B]

I mean. Right. I mean that's even. To, to get to that.

[C]

Right.

[B]

We're not even.

[A]

No, not even close.

[B]

And we knew that early on. And what frustrates me is we saw the Princess Cruise, we saw the contained data and we said, okay, this is a great example of how many people it's going to infect, how many people it's going to die. And guess what? That data has been nearly within like 0.001% of now. The macro data.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So that was the per. So people that don't know cruise ship. I think it was off Japan or something.

[C]

Yeah, it was very early.

[B]

Very early. But you couldn't have designed a better test case because they're all using recirculated air.

[C]

Right.

[B]

They're not, they're not disembarking for a six day period.

[C]

Right.

[B]

It's a petri. Dis.

[A]

Right. It was a petri dish.

[B]

It was. And so we tracked it. That was like the. God forbid, I call it a good thing. But you couldn't have designed a better controlled experiment. So the lockdowns were outrageous. It was so silly. They're talking about kids that can't go to high school now they might cancel football in the state of Colorado. I mean, this is immoral.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I mean at this point I can no longer stay silent.

[C]

I wonder who said that plug for

[A]

my book was that I couldn't stay silent at David Harris.

[B]

But I restore. I refuse to. Yeah, comply is the wrong word. I confused. To concede or to cooperate with this narrative that we are going to lock down America again. I'm not going to go along with it.

[A]

We better not. No.

[C]

So, okay, so. So here we are. We have the virus, we have the lockdowns. Then what happened, which was unforeseen by anybody. Is this. The story took a sudden twist. It became an issue of law and order. George Floyd, that, that was horrendous what happened to him. But then you saw protests, that protests lasted five minutes and then it immediately went to the complete disintegration of societal justice, law and order, rioting, stores being looted, Molotov cocktails, you name it, the whole thing. And then we had the issue of, you know, Black Lives Matter, the organization coming forth and you springing upon this opportunity. Right. And so here's. Here's my. Here's my question. The issue of systemic racism. I know you all have addressed it, we've addressed it again and again, but systemic racism versus systemic injustice, what is that? What does that mean to you?

[A]

Well, I don't think. I mean, I think we have to acknowledge and admit and understand that there was systemic racism in our country up to a certain point. But all of that began to go away once we had liberation, once we had the Civil Rights act, once we began to champion black lives as actually mattering in the. In the 60s.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Then there were changes that were made. There were. There were changes in equality. There were changes for women that were made. There were changes for black Americans that were made. And we, as a society, we had the opportunity to then make sure that we supported the individuals that actually supported what we believe matters the most, which is equality.

[C]

Right.

[A]

So I don't believe today we have an issue with systemic racism. And every single person that tries to say that we do have an issue with systemic racism tries to use the unarmed black individuals that have been shot and killed by police.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And the numbers are completely. The data actually proves the opposite. More whites are killed.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

The individuals that are black that were unarmed, I think there was nine last year, and like five or six of them were doing something violent or in the act of doing something violent, or

[B]

they were saying they had a weapon.

[A]

Yeah. Or they. Or they had a weapon or they reached for the officer's gun. So it's not like there's this. There's this boogeyman of the police that just. That embodies all of police that are out just looking down to. Looking to track down and hunt and shoot and kill black individuals. Nor is there a system in place where an individual cannot start a business, join a company, become an employee, have an idea. I'm a living proof of that. Have been a business owner and an entrepreneur for over 20 years.

[C]

Huge.

[A]

And it was night. It was in the 1990s, 1994, 95, that I had my first idea. And I said, I'm going to create a business out of this. And we. I started a company. I had to do all of the necessary legalities as far as state, local business licenses, everything necessary to get the business up and operational and then provide the capital to be able to provide everything necessary for individuals to be able to work for my company, to create a living. And I did it very successfully. Yeah, if there was systemic racism, then I wouldn't be able to do that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I want to make something very clear because when people, when I reject the premise of systemic racism, and David's actually absolutely right, there was a period of time where that existed. However you look at the 1960s, admitting that there might be systemic injustice is not the same thing as saying systemic racism.

[C]

I totally, wholeheartedly agree.

[B]

And so again, this takes a mature mind of which the left is not capable of because they intentionally try to keep conversations.

[C]

So it requires nuance and thought.

[B]

And so, for example, saying that the black community has been disadvantaged is 100% true post 1960s. Saying that was only because of racism is patently untrue.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So for example, the black community was impacted by the Great Society Act. So every community was actually, because single motherhood went up in the white community, just went up more dramatically in the black community than any other community. Now, so explain me this is that post Civil Rights act passed in 1964. How is it. So if we account Jim Crow laws, segregation and slavery. Evil, evil, evil, which, thank you, Christianity,

[A]

which was systemic racism.

[B]

Of course it was, it was definitionally systemic racism. So the definition of systemic racism legislatively and policy wise, which is the only way we can really discuss it, is that I can do something with the color of my skin that a black person can't do, or vice versa. Now if we want to get hyper technical, I think affirmative action is Absolutely,

[A]

I'm 100% against affirmative action.

[B]

And so I'm not getting into that. I just think, I actually think there

[A]

it's incredibly racist racism.

[B]

And I actually think it hurts black people.

[A]

It does hurt black people.

[B]

So that's a, that's a different.

[A]

And it hurts anybody else. It hurts everybody could be qualified for a job.

[B]

It creates a hyper racialized society. But let me say this. So if you account slavery, Jim Crow and segregation and everything that led up to it, a good point, a good fulcrum point, if you will, is okay. The day before the Civil Rights act was passed.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Let's start that as like everything before that, up to that moment.

[A]

Yeah, right, yeah.

[B]

So that was. So actually before that, you saw black wages increase the most it ever increased it from 1948 to 1960. Now it wasn't. The black community did something that was pretty remarkable is that they. They had a sense of resiliency from 48 to 60 where they were being discriminated against. However, black businesses were thriving. There was a sense of cooperation and community. A lot of that went away when the government came in and tore down their communities and had a vertical housing units. However. This is interesting to see. What is it then? And the left can never answer this question. Tell me. And I know their answer because it's a silly answer. Why did the fatherlessness rate go from 22% to 77%.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Society.

[C]

Of course.

[B]

So I will.

[A]

But they don't want to talk about.

[B]

By the way. I will give you Jim Crow segregation and slavery for why it was 22 to 25%.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I get it. Like that's. That is legitimate institutional. That is like decades and generations of discrimination. Totally got it. Why the jump once things got equal.

[C]

Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like why did things then go up Once there was equality under the law.

[A]

It was because things got equal that LBJ said no, that's. Change the parameters.

[B]

And that's.

[A]

And I'll have those ends voting Democrat for that.

[B]

That is. That is.

[A]

I don't know if I could say that on your show.

[B]

Please don't. Please.

[A]

I should be able to say it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I still don't.

[B]

I don't say.

[A]

I don't say the N word.

[B]

Right. And so the. That. That's a conversation needs to happen. And so. But I also think. I think we're systemically unracist as a country. I actually think we have to go out of our way to find injustice. Like.

[C]

Well, we're creating. I'm gonna say this.

[A]

Bubba. We're creating a new Bubba Smollett.

[B]

Yeah. Is it Watson?

[C]

No. It's small Bubba. Small A.

[B]

No.

[A]

But by the way, I'm waiting for the two nights.

[C]

Wait.

[B]

No.

[C]

Bubba.

[A]

Wallace Watson.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[C]

Wallace Jesse Smollett. But you put it together.

[B]

I really. Yeah. So here's racist.

[A]

You Mrs.

[B]

I have it in writing. My team will tell you the second I saw the story.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I wish I had the gumption to tweet it. I said this is a fraud.

[A]

100 me next time I'll tweet it.

[C]

He's still. I'm hearing he's double doubling down. He is doubling initial reports. And then FBI took 15 agents.

[B]

Why don't they take it's in these agents to find out who's burning down our cities.

[C]

It's insane. Absolutely.

[A]

They take out burning down black businesses. Hispanic businesses. Business is owned by single women.

[B]

Amen.

[C]

So real Quick is we're heading towards the 4th of July. Okay. We're seeing statues come down. People are trying to erase history. Not even that, I think just creating. Creating complete destruction. But most of the people that are doing it don't know anything about our common history. And yet. And here's something else. Put this on the other end. We have evangelical Christians who are questioning whether you can love Jesus and America at the same time. So those are the two juxtaposed between each other.

[B]

Of course you can.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

I mean, and you can have. So look, Philippians. I think it's four, six. It's before one of the most famous verses in the Bible. Paul says, fight for whatever whatsoever is true.

[C]

Right. Whatever is good, whatever is excellent.

[B]

And if you go to the actual root of what that word means, it literally means whatever.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So that the English translation is actually not that far off. And so what makes Christ different is that Jesus didn't just say true things. See, Moses said true things, Elijah said true things. But Christ was truth. He was the embodiment of truth. Completely different is different psychologically different, metaphysically different archetypically of any religious figure ever, because that was truth. Alpha and omega. Everything that human beings need to say, anything that human beings need to hear, Christ said.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Beginning and end of all things that matter in the world. So whatever. So be true. America is the greatest country ever to exist in the history of the world. The kingdom has expanded more because of America than any other country. These things are true.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So I love America. I love what America stands for. I love the American Trinity. Now, do I love the American Trinity more than the Holy Trinity? No. There's a hierarchy there. But the Gospel says you are able to love other things if your true love is pointed to Christ.

[C]

Sure.

[B]

And I think like some of these people say that they think that there's a competition between the two. Right. And it's not even like, it's not

[C]

even more of a cop out.

[B]

But yeah, it's not even close though, Right. The final thing I'll say is this, though, is that a lot of these people. So there's three types of equality, right? And so one, one type of equality is evil, one is necessary, and one is an admirable, admirable pursuit. The type of evil that. The type of equal, I should say that is absolutely necessary is equality under the law. That's the first type of equality. Fair and equal treatment of the laws. We didn't get that till about the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Due process, the ability to represent that. That was 1960s. Quality of opportunity is admirable. We should strive towards that. Right. School choice, opportunity zones, things that lift people up from the foundational level. Like before your innocence is removed from you, you should be able to have an opportunity to succeed. The evil type of equality is equality of outcome. That is. That is an evil pursuit.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

It's very important that we segment the three type of equality.

[C]

That is Marxism.

[A]

That's socialism.

[C]

That's Marxism.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

If you even try to pursue equality of outcome, it's actually against how people are made in the image of God. Here's why. David has strengths that I don't have. I have strengths that Dave. David doesn't have. If you tried to equalize those through central planning, you are definitionally trying to normalize something that God may have gave someone more than someone else.

[A]

That's so good.

[C]

Amen. Absolutely.

[A]

Absolutely.

[C]

Our uniqueness before God in that we are image bearers. And so I know, I love everything you said just there. Here's another thing. And. Oh, sorry, I'm pulling back from the microphone. So there we go.

[B]

Got to do the Joe Rogan thing

[C]

right over them right there. Okay. I'm right in the microphone. Okay. So I want to. I want to transition July 4th, you know, going in as it's coming up. David, what does America mean to you?

[A]

I can just tell you what it's been for me. You know, I've. I've enjoyed living in this country and having the opportunity to marry my wife. That is not my skin, my same skin tone. She's got a different ethnic background. She's Japanese, Portuguese, Caucasian. I'm looked at like a black man. But my mom is. Is white, of Irish descent. My dad is black, so. But still, I've never been accused of being a white guy.

[C]

This is an American story.

[A]

Yeah, it is, but you're an American story.

[B]

I'm an American, your wife's an American,

[A]

and my wife's an American. So we've enjoyed that. The freedom of not having to deal with what my dad went through. You know, my dad very dark. When he got married to my mom, he dealt with racism from both sides.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

He dealt with issues from the black community and he dealt with issues from the white community. Thank God it was at least legal.

[B]

Right?

[A]

So he could do that. But there was a time when it wasn't legal. So America to me has been. Has given me the freedom to not just be able to love my bride, but be able to start a business. Started My first company when I was 20, and it was very successful, did a couple million in sales within a few years. And I've been a serial entrepreneur. This country has given me the ability to start businesses from an idea and not have to get that idea approved from the government, not have to get that idea sanctioned by the government, not have to say, here's the idea, government, will you want to do this for me? It's like I've had the freedom to be a business owner for over 20 years. And I've had the freedom to worship. You know, I love God. I mean, he's, He's, He's.

[C]

We have such a good papa in this country.

[A]

We have such a good papa and I call him Papa. Jesus said abba, father. And anybody that has an issue with me calling him papa or daddy, that's

[C]

right out of Romans, brother.

[A]

He's my daddy.

[B]

Right?

[A]

He's our daddy. Jesus said abba. And abba is a close, intimate form of father like daddy. And I've had the ability to worship. I've had the ability to go to church, attend church, and not be chastised for that. It's like those are freedoms that we take for granted here in this country. If we haven't been to other countries or we haven't done our research and looked at history and looked at what other countries actually do, religious persecution is a big deal. And so I'm thankful so much. I'm so thankful that I was given the opportunity to be born in this country and to grow in this country, to meet my wife here, to start a business here and to live here. America to me is freedom. America to me is. It is the land of opportunity. I've been provided so many opportunities and, and it is the true opportunity for, for us to pursue happiness. And I love that that is an option. You know, the pursuit of happiness is an option. You don't have to pursue happiness. A lot of people don't pursue happiness. They pursue misery.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Or they pursue mediocrity. They pursue things that, that, you know, it's like, I don't want to be. I don't want to be complacent. I don't want to stay with that. This has been, for me, the land of opportunity. And I'm taking full advantage of the ability for me to pursue happiness.

[B]

Charlie, you know, there's an interest. I had an interesting experience a couple years ago. I'll never forget where I was with a bunch of smug Europeans who, they were incredibly anti American, philosophically and morally secular and they were Germans and nothing wrong with that. They just happened to be anti American Germans and they're just bashing on America. Stupid wars. You guys are so. This and all that. I had enough of it. I said, let me ask you a question.

[A]

Oh, I like it when Charlie's had enough.

[B]

Maybe he's just going to get really good. What would the world be without America? And this is the whole dinner party. Just went silent, said, what would the world be if we didn't exist? One of the Germans said, we'd probably be less free.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And the conversation ended after that.

[A]

That was it.

[B]

That was it.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And. And I think that's a very important question because it's, it's not inconceivable that this can, that this can stop existing as we know it. I mean, the, the, you know, it's just the things we know to be true are disappearing so quickly. I mean, so look, I have a different story than David, but 26 years old, being able to interview the President United States and host him three times in one calendar year.

[A]

So amazing.

[B]

Show me another country where that is even. I didn't go to college. Like, that's not supposed to happen.

[A]

Can I add to that? I didn't go to. I went to one day of college. I've been to the White House nine times. I've been in the Oval Office.

[B]

I thought he's this.

[A]

I've gotten to. I've gotten to interview him. Not for, not as long as you did on your amazing podcast that's about to drop. But I did get to. I ask him one question in the. While he's sitting at the Resolute desk.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

In the Oval Office.

[C]

I've seen the video and I have evidence this happened.

[A]

Right. I'm an ex drug dealer. Right. Crackhead. I almost overdosed on crack cocaine 11 years ago.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are you kidding me? And I'm in the Oval Office with the President of the United States, so. And I know we're only in America.

[B]

I know we're short on time.

[C]

We're wrapping up. Yeah.

[B]

Just the. For anyone out there that is struggling with should I love this country or not love this country. I mean, there's a couple things. The American story has always been the pursuit of betterment and it's through self analysis. But the goal that the founders set was a very aspirational one.

[C]

Huge.

[B]

In fact, we must admit they didn't live up to their own goal upon writing those words. And I think that's a really important thing because they were actually trying to set something so forward thinking that they were even held back by their own sin. Some of them owned slaves, some of them engaged in behavior that we would not consider to be permissible today. But that those words, the preamble, the Constitution, actually are still as applicable today as they were then. Because their pursuit of timeless biblical truths that all men are created equal. Wow. Oh my gosh. Now remember the three times of equality, right? Equal under laws, really equal under God. Because those are God's laws, right? Right. And in the declaration it says laws of nature and nature is God. So look, America is the world's last best hope. It's the only moral country left on the planet. And if we cease to exist, I shouldn't say only moral country, let me rephrase that. There's other countries that are generally moral. But we cease to exist, the world and the kingdom of God will be in such a dark place. And so I am so thankful God chose me to live in this world. It's incredible.

[A]

Let me add this too. From coming from what God saved me from, from myself. I know his power is real. I know his love for us is real. It's genuine. And I know that he loves this country. He loves America, and he loves what we've been founded on. We're founded on Judeo Christian values. You know, the Creator is talked about in our Constitution. The way that our system of government is structured is based on God and the Trinity with different aspects of government. So here's one thing I think that's so important for people to understand, for everybody listening understand, is that God the Father loves you. He sent his Son to pay a ransom for you so that you could know true love and so that you could know the Father. And that's where it starts. And that is our hope for every single person listening to this. But I also want you to understand this. God will survive without America, but America will not survive without God.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

And so those that know him and trust him and seek him and pray, we need to be active, we need to be engaged. We need to know why we believe what we believe. Because we are the church here in this country. And if America is spared, which I believe it will be, I'm just trying to encourage everybody, it will be because of the believers that are believing for God's will to be done in this country.

[C]

Yeah, it's not a choice between either or, it's both. And love Jesus with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. Love your neighbor. Guess who your neighbor is. If you live in America, get your neighbor. They're, they're Americans. And by the way, that's right. And it's the freest, most prosperous nation for the reason also the most compassionate, most generous, benevolent nation ever in the world. So it's a great way to end it. Brothers, thank you so much to do this again. Yes.

[B]

Charlie, thanks man.

[C]

David, thank you.

[A]

Thanks, Charlie. Thanks, Ryan. God bless you guys.

[C]

Good bless.

[B]

What a terrific conversation. Make sure you guys check out Turning Point USA. Go to tpusa.com chip in some money if you can. Tpusa.com email me. Freedom charliekirk.com and just a reminder, this episode is brought to you advertiser free by you going to charliekirk.com support. Chip in some money if you can. $5, $10, $50, $100. Whatever you can do, become a supporter of the Charlie Kirk Show. Charliekirk.com support and if you subscribe, screenshot it give us a five star review and a nice review on the bottom. You guys are in the running to win a signed copy of the MAGA doctrine. God bless you. Keep fighting. Have courage.

[A]

Talk.