Mark Cuban - Best of TCKS

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Charlie Kirk Show

Episode: Mark Cuban - Best of TCKS
Date: July 12, 2020
Host: Charlie Kirk
Guest: Mark Cuban

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Overview

This episode features entrepreneur, Dallas Mavericks owner, and Shark Tank star Mark Cuban in an in-depth, lively discussion with conservative commentator Charlie Kirk. The conversation covers entrepreneurship, failure, the state of American politics, healthcare reform, the role of markets vs. regulation, climate change, artificial intelligence, and audience Q&A. Cuban and Kirk often disagree, but demonstrate a tone of open debate, respectful challenge, and a shared belief in the value of civil discourse and curiosity.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Mark Cuban's Entrepreneurial Philosophy

[01:50-07:06]

• Starting Out:
  Cuban shares how his first venture selling garbage bags door-to-door as a kid taught him sales, confidence, and the value of taking initiative.
  • Quote: “Unless you try, you’re never going to know… The first piece of advice is don’t ever sell yourself short.” – Mark Cuban [03:17]
• Youth and Initiative:
  Kirk and Cuban agree that youth is an opportunity, as people are more willing to help and doors open more easily.
  • Quote: “When you got nothing to lose, why wouldn’t you [start a business]?” – Mark Cuban, referencing Damon John’s book [04:16]
• Lessons from Failure:
  Cuban stresses that failing is normal and necessary; you only have to be right once.
  • Quote: “You only have to be right one time… It doesn’t matter how many times you fail.” – Mark Cuban [07:06]

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2. Politics, Parties, and Civic Engagement

[09:35-17:24]

• Skepticism Toward Political Parties:
  Cuban expresses his disdain for both parties, arguing that they are more focused on maintaining power than serving people. He advocates for technology-driven direct input from citizens instead of party politics.
  • Quote: “The real deep state are Democratic and Republican parties... they forget about the most important people in the country, which is each and every one of you.” – Mark Cuban [09:52]
• The Importance of Challenging the Status Quo:
  Cuban credits President Trump for challenging conventions, even as he disagrees with him on many outcomes. He urges students to be curious and resistant to being boxed into ideological camps.
  • Quote: “He [Trump] always challenges the status quo... If each and every one of you took that same approach, you might not identify yourself as center, right, center left... but just as curious.” – Mark Cuban [16:34]

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3. Healthcare Reform Debate

[19:53-29:44]

• Cuban’s Healthcare Plan:
  Mark Cuban outlines a proposal for healthcare that removes insurance companies, bases payments on a capped percentage of income (8%), and focuses on transparent pricing, referencing company self-insurance models.
  • Quote: “No insurance, completely out of the mix.” – Mark Cuban [23:55]
• Debate on Market Solutions:
  Kirk is skeptical of government-managed healthcare and argues for more price transparency and market solutions, such as competition across state lines.
  • Quote: “Capitalism can be described as the three Ps, prices, profit, and private property. The problem... in healthcare, there’s no price system.” – Charlie Kirk [27:33]
• Points of Agreement and Disagreement:
  The two agree on the problems caused by insurance companies but have differing opinions on the ideal solution (“Any system built on insurance will fail.” – Mark Cuban [29:33])

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4. Markets vs. Regulation: Banking and Crony Capitalism

[30:04-31:51]

• Banking Regulations:
  Discussion of Dodd-Frank legislation and how regulations often favor big players by raising barriers for smaller competitors.
  • Quote: “Anytime you have regulations, the bigger, richer companies are able to use it to [their advantage].” – Mark Cuban [30:39]
• Potential Solutions:
  Cuban proposes reverting banks to partnership structures (personal liability), not corporations, as a better fix than constant regulatory tinkering.

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5. Climate Change & Environmental Policy Debate

[34:02-56:52]

• Climate Risk Attitudes:
  Cuban takes a risk management approach—any chance of harm justifies action regardless of certainty; he values government intervention and investment in environmental tech.
  • Quote: “If that probability… is greater than zero… there’s no amount of money I’m willing to assign to that risk if I think it challenges the world that my kids will live in.” – Mark Cuban [36:45]
• Kirk’s Counterargument:
  Kirk argues for market-driven innovations (citing the USB drive saving paper), skepticism of top-down global accords, and the need for cost-benefit analysis.
  • Quote: “The best way to get there is not through big United Nations global commissions… it’s through entrepreneurs like Elon Musk...” – Charlie Kirk [39:18]
• Government vs. Entrepreneurial Solutions:
  Cuban: “Government is in a better position than any individual entrepreneur to help.” [42:00]
  Kirk: “Entrepreneurs from the bottom up are much more likely to come up with solutions…” [47:33]

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6. Artificial Intelligence & National Security

[45:07-51:30]

• AI as the Next Frontier:
  Cuban argues that AI is too large a challenge to be solved by private entrepreneurs alone and calls for national investment similar to defense spending.
  • Quote: “As big a threat as nuclear is, AI is even bigger.” – Mark Cuban [49:57]
• Kirk’s Caution about Government:
  Kirk remains skeptical about government efficiency and warns of cronyism when public funds are involved.
• Consensus:
  Both agree on the magnitude of the challenges, but disagree on who should take the lead (public sector vs. private innovation).

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7. Audience Q&A – Life Advice and Business Lessons

[56:58-66:25]

• Grad School and MBAs:
  Cuban does not recommend MBAs, advising students to gain experience and use online resources instead.
  • Quote: “You can get far more experience in the workforce and learn more… discipline enough, you can do it for a lot less money and still get a quality education.” [57:14]
• Investing in Turning Point USA:
  As a Shark, Cuban says he would invest in Kirk’s organization because “sometimes you invest in the jockey.” [58:04]
• Healthcare Responsibility:
  Cuban insists healthcare is a right, and society pays its costs regardless, so it’s best to solve collectively. [58:49]
• Early Success in Business:
  Cuban warns that early business success can breed arrogance; humility and the “power of nice” are undervalued assets.
  • Quote: “Early success can be a lousy teacher... The power of nice is really, really important in business.” [61:12]
• Technology Adoption and AI:
  Cuban advises all young people, regardless of interest or background, to learn the basics of AI to stay relevant.
  • Quote: “If you don’t pay attention to what AI is… you’re going to have to understand AI or people are going to laugh at you.” [63:28]

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8. Closing Thoughts on Markets, Regulation, and America

[66:30]

• Cuban and Kirk reiterate the importance of civil debate and disagreement as core to American democracy.
  • Quote: “We don’t agree on everything, but this is what America is all about. Disagreement, civility, exchange of ideas.” – Charlie Kirk [66:30]

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Notable & Memorable Moments

• Cuban’s Garbage Bag Story: Demonstrates how entrepreneurship starts with action, not just ideas. [01:50]
• The ‘Power of Broke’: When you have nothing to lose, entrepreneurship is at its most accessible. [04:16]
• Trump as a Status Quo Challenger: Cuban’s nuanced praise and critique of Trump’s disruptive leadership style. [16:34]
• Dueling Healthcare Solutions: In-depth back-and-forth on the failures of U.S. insurance-based healthcare and proposed fixes. [19:53-29:44]
• Climate Change Risk Analogy: Cuban uses everyday risk calculations (crossing a street) to argue for climate action. [35:20]
• AI and ‘Terminator’ Fears: Cuban predicts AI weaponry will be a defining challenge for the next generation. [47:33]
• Shark Tank Questions: “We’ve had a fart candle… Potato parcel.” [62:32]
• The Power of Nice: Cuban’s advice that kindness is a business advantage. [61:12]
• Learning AI for Everyone: Cuban emphasizes the universal importance of AI literacy. [63:28]

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Important Timestamps

• 01:50 – Mark Cuban describes starting his first business and lessons learned
• 04:10 – Youth as an advantage in entrepreneurship
• 09:52 – Critique of political parties and vision for direct democracy
• 16:34 – President Trump and status quo disruption
• 19:53 – Cuban's alternative healthcare proposal
• 27:33 – The failure of transparency in pricing in the healthcare market
• 30:04 – Discussion of Dodd-Frank and banking regulation
• 34:02 – Is America better off since Trump? Segue into climate change
• 36:45 – Cuban on climate risk and future generations
• 42:00 – “Government is in a better position than any individual entrepreneur to help.”
• 47:33 – Artificial intelligence debate: public vs. private sector
• 57:14 – Advice on MBAs and education
• 58:04 – Would Cuban invest in Turning Point USA? (“Absolutely.”)
• 61:12 – Early success can be dangerous; “The power of nice” in business
• 63:28 – Cuban urges all young people to study AI

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Summary Table: Perspectives on Major Issues

| Topic | Mark Cuban | Charlie Kirk | |----------------------|-----------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------| | Political Parties | Distrusts all; advocates direct input | Defends party as vehicle for ideas, but critical | | Entrepreneurship | Just start, learn from failure | Agrees, highlights market solutions | | Healthcare | Remove insurance, capped payments, transparency| Open to reform, wary of government control | | Climate Change | Precautionary action, risk management, gov't role| Skeptical of cost, prefers market-led innovation | | AI & Tech | Needs major gov’t investment for defense | Favors entrepreneurial, market-driven approach | | Regulation | Some necessary on “big issues,” but skeptical | Less regulation, market focus | | Education | College is good; MBAs unnecessary | Endorses Cuban’s view |

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Conclusion

This episode provides a rare example of sharp but respectful debate between two successful figures from different political and professional backgrounds. Mark Cuban and Charlie Kirk explore big issues — from personal risk-taking to systemic risk — debating where markets excel and where regulation is necessary. The audience Q&A adds perspective from young listeners, and both Cuban’s humility and Kirk’s curiosity highlight the value of dissent, adaptability, and lifelong learning.

Best Quote to Sum Up:

“We don’t agree on everything, but this is what America is all about—disagreement, civility, exchange of ideas.” – Charlie Kirk [66:30]

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

Thank you for listening to this Podcast 1 production now available on Apple Podcasts,

[Mark Cuban]

Podcast 1, Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcasts.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hey everybody. I'm still in the middle of nowhere, but I wanted to make sure you guys still got your episodes worth from the Charlie Kirk Show. We have grown our program probably 20 fold since the last time some of these episodes dropped. So my exclusive conversation with Mark Cuban is one we want to share with you. My conversation with with Mark Cuban, owner of the Dallas Mavericks and billionaire. It's a really fun conversation. It's something that's going to be very entertaining for you. Please email me your questions freedomarliekirk.com freedomarliekirk.com Type in Charlie Kirk show your podcast provider hit subscribe, give us a five star review and if you guys want a signed copy of the MAGA doctrine, do exactly that, screenshot it and email us. Freedom charliekirk.com Please consider supporting our program by going to charliekirk.com support support us monthly. Give us 50 bucks, 100 bucks, whatever you can afford. It really helps our program stay self sufficient away from leftist boycotts and BLM Inc. Target assassination campaigns towards this show. Really fun conversation. You guys are gonna enjoy this. Buckle up everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

[Mark Cuban]

Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are

[Charlie Kirk]

lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's run in the White House, folks.

[Mark Cuban]

I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.

[Charlie Kirk]

We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here.

[Mark Cuban]

Imagine I have a box of 100 garbage bags. The boxes cost me three bucks. I decide to sell them for six. I walk up to the door on the street, hi, do you use garbage bags? What an easy sell. Literally. How would you like it if I brought you garbage bags every two weeks and you never had to think about garbage bags again? Will you buy my garbage bags for $6? Absolutely, yes. And that's all it took to start my first real business. I took that, my little garbage bag route, probably the world's first and only garbage bag route, and turned it into not only my shoes, but so much more. But more importantly, it gave me confidence, it gave me the knowledge that I could put myself in situations of walking up to people I didn't know, you know, just walking up to the doors and then presenting myself with confidence. And that's why what you do today, just like what Charlie did, is so important. Because rule number one is unless you try, you're never going to know. And whether it's a business, whether it's a project, whether it's a political career, you have to take that first step. Because most people. Here's what they do. And tell me if this sounds familiar. I have this idea. Anybody ever have an idea they thought was really good? Anybody didn't? I'm going to worry about you. I have this idea. Then what do you do? You tell your friends and they say, oh, it's a great idea. Then you look it up on Google. Oh, no one's ever done it before. It's got to be great. We're going to make billions. And then you do nothing. That's what most people do. There's such a fine line between being successful and not being successful. And most of that comes from just taking that first step. And so the first piece of advice is don't ever sell yourself short. Always go out there and try. If I can sell garbage bags door to door just by saying hi to use garbage bags, just think, there's nothing you guys can't start either because you'll have the same impact whether it's your neighborhood, your, your school, wherever it may be.

[Charlie Kirk]

And Mark, you would agree with this. When you're young, people open up doors for you that they would never when you're 30 or 40.

[Mark Cuban]

Oh, I mean, I was 30 years old going, hey, I'm doing a school project. Yeah, when you're a kid. Look, anybody here watch Shark Tank? That's what I'm talking about. I like it, okay? I like this crowd. So I like that. So one of the guys in Shark Tank is Damon John, and he wrote a book called the Power of Broke. And what basically he was saying is, when you got nothing to lose, why wouldn't you. Why wouldn't you start a business? And to Charlie's point, when you're a kid, everybody wants to help you. So now is the perfect time. Bill Gates started Microsoft when he was 16. Michael Dell, who started a company called Dell Computer, who I used to do business back way back in the day, do business with. He started in his dorm room when he was 19. If you watch Shark Tank, there's a kid, Benji Stern, who invented these new little shampoo balls that are better for the environment, cost efficient, et cetera. So instead of the little shampoo bottles you would use these dissolvable balls. 16. I'll tell you another Shark Tank story. There's a girl, she had a woman. Now, her name was Lani Lazeri, from my hometown of Pittsburgh. She came onto Shark Tank with something called Simple Sugars, which was a scrub, a skin scrub that was scented with different fruits and different fragrances and the like. She comes on and she makes her pitch and it airs. And we're helping her ship and we're helping her sell about six months later. I've been answering her emails and questions all along. Different business questions. No, I forgot to tell you. At the time, she was 19. 19 years old. She had started this company when she was 12. Six months after the airing of Simple Sugars, I get a call from her. Mark, Mark, what am I going to do? I'm like, what's the matter, Lanie? What's the matter? She's 19 years old. She goes, I have a million dollars in the bank, and I'm freaking out. 19 years old. And it all started because she didn't think of a good reason not to start. Why can't that be any of you with all your businesses again? Look at Charlie. Charlie's running this whole show. He's been doing it six years now. But he just said yes. Taking that first step is the only thing that holds you back.

[Charlie Kirk]

And there's always a million reasons not to do something.

[Mark Cuban]

Always.

[Charlie Kirk]

You always create reasons. I got soccer practice. I'm tired.

[Mark Cuban]

You know I'm gonna be the next Dirk Nowitzki.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, exactly. Well, I tried that. Didn't work out. But we still gotta play one on one, which we'll take care of that. So, you know, I always find that the fear of failure is quite usually worse than actually failure itself. The psychological trap that we put ourself into, when you actually fail, you learn a lot. And failure in this country, we talked about this a little bit before. We actually embrace failure a lot more, you know, with forgiveness than most other countries.

[Mark Cuban]

Look, we all fail, you know, but the beautiful thing is, I can tell you, you know, I talked about my. My garbage bag business door to door. I didn't tell you about my powdered milk company that failed miserably. I didn't tell you about the time I got fired from my software job. I didn't tell you about the time I got screamed at at another job and got fired at another job. I can't tell you how many times I failed. But the beautiful thing about this country is you only have to be right one Time doesn't matter how many times you fail. You can fail one time, five times, 10 times, none, or 200 times. But if you're right, that one, big time, that's all that matters. And that's the opportunity each and every one of you have in front of you. So when you try different things, as Charlie said, don't you know it's normal to be fearful? But when you do try them, so what if you fail? You know, Thomas Edison said every failure got him close. He learned what not to do. And that's what failure is all about. Learning what not to do and then getting to what you should do and getting it done exactly right.

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[Charlie Kirk]

That would be really bad.

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[Charlie Kirk]

So Mark, just for this audience, because I know we chatted a little bit, but what do you think of what's going on in the country right now? Like, what's, what's your take? Do you care? Do you not care politically what's going on politically? You guys know how I feel? More or less?

[Mark Cuban]

Yeah. Let me just say that I hate politics, I hate politicians. I think that the real deep state are Democratic and Republican parties, that they work so hard to keep the powers entrenched, the current powers entrenched, that they forget about some of the most important people in the country, which is each and every one of you.

[Charlie Kirk]

I told you, I. I agree with that. I agree.

[Mark Cuban]

If I had my way, we'd get rid of all political parties altogether because. Okay, now I'm on a roll. So let me tell you what else

[Charlie Kirk]

I. Oh, hold on. Don't get too excited.

[Mark Cuban]

Let me do one more thing here. Let me tell you why it's workable. Because historically, we needed the power bases of parties to develop candidates and push them forward. And we needed those candidates to tell people upstream what the constituents were thinking. But it's 2018. If Instagram can do surveys, if Snapchat can do surveys, if we can swipe right or left, we can ask people what they think. And then when we ask Americans what they truly think, even though it's not legal to do a national referendum, it's still very possible for our politicians from president on down, to not do polls, but literally ask their constituents what they think about an issue. So we can find out what people think rather than our politicians trying to convince us what they think, what to think. And I think that's the big change that has to happen. That politics should. Politics going forward should leverage technology so we can ask constituents, people like you, people like me, what we think, and then implement what we think as opposed to battle it out and guess, you know, this candidate's going too far left and that's going to ruin everything. This candidate's going too far right, and that's going to. It's not about what the candidates think or do. It's supposed to be about us. We may be a republic, but we're still a democracy. And we have the tools now to ask the questions, what do we want? What do we think? And how are we going to get there? And to tell our politicians instead of just listen to our politicians. And I think that's what's changed dramatically.

[Charlie Kirk]

I agree with that. Where I'll push back a little bit, though, is you're always going to have some political party because parties generally represent ideas.

[Mark Cuban]

No, you have groups of people who, who get together.

[Charlie Kirk]

Always going to happen. That's always going to happen.

[Mark Cuban]

The parties are defined, but the. By the money they raise. Right?

[Charlie Kirk]

You're gonna have factions. Would you agree with that?

[Mark Cuban]

Factions, yes. But again, what do people talk about when you, when you go to groups of Republicans, you Go to groups of Democrats. It always comes down to money. Always comes down to money. And whoever has more money tends to have the advantage.

[Charlie Kirk]

Trump beat Hillary even though he was outspent. Two, one. But you're right, you're right. I mean, generally.

[Mark Cuban]

But then why are they focused so much on raising money?

[Charlie Kirk]

I agree with you. And I would say they typically serve the interest of their donors.

[Mark Cuban]

You want to hear a story about that and talk about a really Hillary screw up that you guys will probably love. So, and I got this from talking not to Brad Parscale, but to one of the other organizations that helped President Trump with his marketing. And I think this really is what turned the election more than what was spent or how they did Facebook or how Brad did Facebook or other things, even though I think Brad's smart and I've actually used them for different projects. And so the Hillary Clinton campaign completely bought out YouTube. Every single ad on YouTube completely bought for $2.4 million. They decided they were so far ahead a couple days before they just let it go. They didn't want to spend the 2.4. Brad came in, bought it for 1.8. And literally, if you talk to them about the numbers and the click throughs and from the states they got those click throughs, they feel that in those three states that made the difference for 77,000, the firewall states that those came from that one decision on YouTube on that final day. So sometimes it's smart, sometimes it's happenstance, sometimes it's just stupidity. But to their credit, they took advantage.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'd rather be lucky than good. Always, always be ready. Lucky than good. But so, but we have obviously a very center, right audience here. Right center. I should say. It's a good, it's a good audience. Would you, would you.

[Mark Cuban]

Wait, wait, wait. Let me challenge that.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's what I was getting.

[Mark Cuban]

Let me challenge that. How many people are 18 or older? And I'm guessing then the rest of you must be 18 or younger. The reality is if I looked at my 16 year old politics, which wasn't much, my 17, 18, 20, 21 year old politics wasn't much, the one thing I learned from then till now is that it's all going to change, right? And that the greatest skill that you can have is to be curious and to want to learn more and to pay attention and to challenge the status quo. You know, I've given President Trump a hard time and you can argue rightfully so or not, but one thing I will give him credit for got real quiet I like that. The one thing I'll give him credit for, and he's the only president ever really to have done this, and I think it's because he's a business guy at heart. And I'm hoping that each and every one of you adopt this approach. He always challenges the status quo. Always, no matter what. Now, part two to that is what you do after you challenge the status quo. And that's where I tend to have my disagreements, because I've always stood up long before I developed a relationship with Donald. I've always stood up and talked to entrepreneurs, told people that work for me, that if you see somebody doing things the same way for an extended period of time and they think it becomes, and it's become conventional wisdom, and that this is the way it's always supposed to be done, that's where your greatest opportunity is. If you go in and change it for the better, amazing things can happen. But going in and changing it for the better means digging in and learning it better than anybody else and not deferring to other people. That's where the real opportunity comes from. But I do give President Trump tons of credit for always challenging the status quo. And if each and every one of you took that same approach, you might not identify yourself as center, right, center, left, center, up, center, down, center, purple, center green. But just as curious. And that's really why I wanted to come out here today. Because if you take one of President Trump, I think his best quality and you apply it, look, if you would look at the conservative agenda four years ago, it's completely different than it is today, night and day. And it's because he challenged the status quo in almost everything. For better or worse. If each and every one of you take President Trump, in my opinion, his best quality, you wouldn't pre identify yourselves as anything. You'd say, let's just go break shit. And that's the opportunity.

[Charlie Kirk]

So I think it's an interesting point you're making. He's a disruptor at heart, and he always plays the devil's advocate.

[Mark Cuban]

He's a questioner, and he always plays the devil.

[Charlie Kirk]

He always questions whether someone says they'll say China's great, he'll say China's bad. He'll always push back. Always, always. And in a meeting with him, he does that with me all the time. I'll say something, even though he totally agrees. You really believe that? Tell me what you really believe. That you know. Exactly. We'll see what happens. That's what he always. That's his new one. And what I think you would appreciate, though, Mark, I gotta be honest with you, a lot of the character attributes I admire most about you, I see in him. He has perseverance, he has relentlessness. He believes in other people. He has optimism. He works really hard. I think you guys would be very symbiotic. But I hear a lot of criticism from you.

[Mark Cuban]

No, because we used to get along great. And look, I'm an American first period, end of story. You know, I don't belong to any political party and I never will. And I've offered. I've put together a health care program. I've offered it. I've offered to work with entrepreneurs. I've offered to work with small business. I've put the offer out there. You know, where we are very different is I like going to places where people disagree with me. I have this thing, I always like to check my hole card. Right? You know how you go to play cards and you always look and you know you have a jack underneath there, but you gotta look 30 times just to make sure you have a jack underneath there. And, you know, I tend to approach life the same way I want to. I want to reaffirm what I think. I want to get new ideas and new feedback and question myself so I get smarter. And that's why I like to come here, because I want to learn from each and every one of you because you have different perspective and that's how I'll get smarter. I don't know necessarily that the president, at least in my experiences with him, is the type to dig into the details at all. And that's where we diverge. In the past, when we would do things before his political environment, he would delegate to people he thought was the smartest person. Right now, I don't think he's quite doing that as much as I'd like to see. Right, because he's been surrounding himself more with people that tend to agree with him than will disagree with them. And so that's where we've diverged. All that said, if he called me up and said, mark, would you help me with healthcare? Hey, I've been working on a program where I've spent a lot of my own money.

[Charlie Kirk]

Talk about it. I'd love to hear about it.

[Mark Cuban]

I'll give you the 2 second version. The reason that Obamacare does not work is because it's based on insurance. There is no health care program ever that will succeed based on insurance. Because insurance has nothing to do with health care. It's a financial Instrument,

[Charlie Kirk]

you're correct.

[Mark Cuban]

But I'm also a believer that Everybody. There are 47 million people that are eligible for Obamacare. The ACA, they're bunch covered by Medicare, a bunch covered by Medicaid. And so they cover the, yeah, the external sides, but across the middle there's the 47 million that are eligible for Obamacare. And what I did was I sat down with all 14 of the people that helped create Obamacare and I presented them my idea and I said, what are all the things we need to do to make sure that these 47 million people are covered? I took all their ideas, then I sat down with a bunch of people from the far right, if you will, that are libertarian and laissez faire driven. And I said, okay, we need to cover these people. What do you think? So I took all that in and then I did what I should have done right off the bat. I looked at my own companies, I self insure and then I looked at all the big companies across the country, 95% of companies with 5,000 or more employees self insure. And they self insure, meaning they might use insurance, little bits and pieces, but for the most part they take on the risk themselves because it's only the financial risk that they're really absorbing. So I put together a program and I send it to the most far left economist that I could find, company called Sonicom, and I said, here are the parameters. And the parameters are for the average family, the individual making 50,000 or less, and a family making $84,000 or less, I want to see if we can do an 8%, 8% on demand solution. And what that means is if you're not sick, you can do nothing. So you guys mostly on your parents healthcare plans, but let's just say you're not and you're 27 years old and you need to determine what you want to do. Now if you want to buy insurance, you can, that's your option. It's a financial choice. But I put together this program that said, all right, if you need health care, you go and get it. If you can't afford to pay for it, then the government will guarantee your payment, but you will get dinged for up to 8% of your income that'll be automatically deducted from, from your paycheck and that's the most you will pay. Now that 8% turns out to be less than you would have paid in insurance. But because you took out the insurance companies, because you took out all the administrative costs, because you took out the Way everything is siloed. When I sent it to the economists and they scored it like OBM would score it. Omb, rather, I'm getting all backwards. Say OMB would score it. You know what they came back with? Consumers would save $45 billion per year. The government would save $40 billion per year. And I'm like, okay, this works. But the challenge has been taking it up the tent pole. Right. And so working my way up and getting it into the administration. So let me just say it again so everybody understands, because I'm sure people will ask, or media or whoever will come back and ask me. No insurance, Completely out of the mix. If you're. If you're healthy, if you want to get preventive maintenance, that's up to you. When you feel you need to go to the doctor for. And it will cover things that are covered by Medicare to start. And then we can add to that for other things that we don't need to go into here. But the most that you will pay is up to 8% of your paycheck, and you'll pay up to that 8% until the amount is paid off. So if you need a hip transplant and it's $15,000 and you pay your $100 copay, the rest is deducted. If you make $30,000 a year, 8% of your net salary is being paid to pay this back. Once it's paid off, it's paid off. If after 15 years, it's not paid off, it's written off. After all that, you get to control who you buy your health care from, how much you pay because you can shop and where you get it. It's completely up to you. That works. Now, the hard part isn't getting people to believe it works because I've shown it to senators and Republicans to get it done.

[Charlie Kirk]

But I think you're onto something with the insurance companies. I come about it a little bit different. I think the problems in health care cost and health care delivery, not the health insurance. Let me finish it.

[Podcast Sponsor/Announcer]

Really.

[Charlie Kirk]

One quick example. So you know Lasik eye surgery.

[Mark Cuban]

Sure.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's not covered by insurance. It's covered. Considered.

[Mark Cuban]

The price is a lot lower.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, right. So Lasik eye surgery used to be $20,000 per eye, which is.

[Mark Cuban]

You're exactly right. Which is in this program. Right. Right now you have networks that you have to work in because those networks are defined by the insurance companies. So with 8% on demand, you can go to any doctor.

[Charlie Kirk]

What's going to prevent the health care deliverer from Jacking up the price of health care if the government's negotiating with them.

[Mark Cuban]

No, the government's not the government's. You're using the Medicare price points as a starting point.

[Charlie Kirk]

But those price points are overly inflated, full of waste, fraud, abuse and that's fine. Horrific delivery.

[Mark Cuban]

So if I go in, that's up to me.

[Charlie Kirk]

Me.

[Mark Cuban]

So put aside Lasik. But if I go in because I broke my ankle, right. One hospital, it's 2,500. Another hospital, it's.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's not the way it works. They don't quote it.

[Mark Cuban]

No, that's in this program.

[Charlie Kirk]

So there's a price system.

[Mark Cuban]

Yeah, there's a whole price that there's reference price.

[Charlie Kirk]

I support a price system.

[Mark Cuban]

There's a price.

[Charlie Kirk]

I agree. Price system. It's good.

[Mark Cuban]

So there's a price, but you can also negotiate past it.

[Charlie Kirk]

So good that, so if the price,

[Mark Cuban]

if the reference price list is $1500 for your broken ankle and you go in and you say, look, I'll do it for 1200. If not, this other guy's going to do it for less.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's exactly my health care. So, so just everyone knows the way health care works. You walk in, you say, I need, I have a broken knee. And you ask them what it costs, they'll laugh at you. They cover their prices. And so I think transparency, well that's

[Mark Cuban]

because most of it's driven through insurance

[Charlie Kirk]

companies, of course, because they don't want you to know.

[Mark Cuban]

If you're a cash pay, you can, you can negotiate. But with this program you have the option. So there may be, let's say you have a heart problem, there may be a super cardiologist, that's a lot more expensive. Expensive. And the amount that we'll guarantee is limited. And you can't afford that person, you have the option to pay more yourself. So if you want to go to the best, if you like that doctor, you can use that doctor.

[Charlie Kirk]

If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. Well, you can find it himself.

[Mark Cuban]

I said you can find the best doctor if you like. If you want the best doctor, you can go get the best doctor. If you have to go to the emergency room right now, it's horrible because if your doctor is not, if the emergency attending physician is not in your network, it's going to cost you a fortune.

[Charlie Kirk]

I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying. Some of the details we could talk about at length later on. But what I love is that it's a business minded solution, market based type

[Mark Cuban]

of what you'll love any more than I've spent a whole lot of money getting it studied and getting it scored. And so this isn't me just saying, hey, this is a good idea. This is me spending a lot of money, bringing in a lot of people to say, okay, poke holes in it, tell me why it won't work. Put it together in a way that will make Republicans, because it's full repeal and replace happy and Democrats happy because it immediately covers 47 million people. Every single person who's eligible for Obamacare can use the system day one, and you can get the health care you need and want, and you get it far less expensively than having to pay into an insurance based system.

[Charlie Kirk]

One of the things we talk a lot about is the power of markets. And you know this and you know capitalism can be described in the three Ps, prices, profit, and private property. And the problem, as you just pointed out, in health care, there's no price system. So people walk because the insurance companies intentionally muddy it up. Right. And the insurance companies have become pseudo monopolies in these states. So one thing I would ask you, would you support allowing health insurance be brought across state lines like auto insurance and home insurance and flood insurance? Because that's a market.

[Mark Cuban]

Yeah, but that's shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic. It's, you know, because it's still health care.

[Charlie Kirk]

It worked in auto insurance.

[Mark Cuban]

Yeah, but for health care it's different. Right, because people tell me, okay, okay, because, because if you're sick, you're not worried about getting the best price, you want the best care. Right. And you're not. And so the difference is, with my program, you can go to any hospital, any doctor. Right. And if they support the reference price list, you just go, you walk in immediately, you show your driver's license, they scan your driver's license, that you get an okay from your employer to say, we'll deduct the amount and you're good to go.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right, But I guess the problem is that most health care is not emergency, not life or death health care. Most health care is. No, but, no, I get that.

[Mark Cuban]

Right, but the markets are there. So you want markets. Right, but you're suggesting you use insurance to go across.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's, that's a, that's a mechanism, as

[Mark Cuban]

a component of it, insurance. Once you use, once you base anything on insurance for health care, it's guaranteed to fail.

[Charlie Kirk]

You need, you need some form of insurance, it's a risk.

[Mark Cuban]

No, no, that's the whole point. You do not need some form of insurance at all.

[Charlie Kirk]

So then why would an employer provide health insurance at all under your program? They wouldn't.

[Mark Cuban]

Well, it's up to them. But it's a value add, it's a perk. Right. That's why, that's why they provided in the first place when, when there were wage and price controls. They introduced health insurance as a perk.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right, but alternatively your plan would be to try to get people on this

[Mark Cuban]

broader government run risk if my companies, I would still continue to provide health care.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right, so do we, I mean Turning Point provides healthcare. We have to under the Obamacare mandate.

[Mark Cuban]

But that's, but that would change. That would change. You'd have the option.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, that's interesting. Okay, so now we're getting somewhere. Get rid of forcing.

[Mark Cuban]

Again, I can't say it. I told this to President Obama. Any system built on healthcare, any healthcare system built on insurance will fail.

[Charlie Kirk]

I don't disagree with that. So, but talking more broadly, I think one of the most powerful forces for good and you agree are markets. And I see the decline of markets because of crony deals and because of insiders that are trying to create these pseudo monopolies to have regulation written for the wealthy, the few and the well connected. And I think you agree with this.

[Mark Cuban]

I mean you got to give examples.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, let's give an example. Dodd Frank. Dodd Frank was a banking regulation that was passed right after the financial crisis which was supposed to help the little guy and help small banks from over depositing and getting and doing reckless behavior. What's happened in turn is JPMorgan Chase, Wells Fargo and the big uglies in Manhattan have actually gotten richer and more powerful because they can afford the compliance costs of Dodd Frank. So a well intentioned Democrat bill has actually made the very enemy that they seek to destroy stronger and richer.

[Mark Cuban]

Anytime you have regulations, the bigger richer companies are able to use it to. Right.

[Charlie Kirk]

So President Trump's gotten rid of over 800 regulations in a year and a half. Would you say that's a good thing?

[Mark Cuban]

Some of them, yes. Some of them, no. Right. But let me just go to Dodd Frank. The problem with, with all of that, with Dodd Frank is they missed the most intrinsic problem in the late 90s. It used to be the big banks were partnerships. And what that meant was you were, you weren't protected by corporations. You know, your money, your own personal money was on the line. So the moral hazard was there and strong with Dodd Frank when, when companies were allowed to go public as corporations, banks were allowed to go public as Corporations. Yeah. All that changed. The simplest change, which, you know, the banks would fight tooth and nail, is to require any brokerage slash bank to be a partnership. You solve all those problems.

[Charlie Kirk]

They're not. Yeah, they were not going to do it, but.

[Mark Cuban]

But then it's just a fight over regulation, Right? And then it's just which regulation. And no matter. Until you go laissez faire, which isn't going to happen in banking, then we can nickel and dime over which regulations impact. And to his credit, he's fixing the small. The smaller banks, which are the bigger problem.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right.

[Mark Cuban]

And go from there.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, and the small banks used to be the backbone of banking in the United States. Small banks used to compose of 80% of all banking. Now they're 20%. It's been totally flipped on its head.

[Mark Cuban]

But again. But again, look, traditional banking is being challenged across the board no matter what, right? There's crowdfunding. There's a thousand different ways to raise money. There's seed funding. There's so many different ways that capital is available that the banks are under assault. They're dealing with big companies doing big deals, but that's not where the growth is. Anyways,

[Podcast Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Charlie Kirk]

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[Charlie Kirk]

so I have a question that you might not have been asked before. It's very simple. Do you think America's in a better or worse place since Donald Trump got inaugurated?

[Mark Cuban]

I think some people are better off and some people are worse off. I mean, I think where I've supported, I like less regulation. I really, really do when it comes to business. But I'm also a believer in climate change, you know, and I think that's a risk and I think it's. Look, let's talk about climate change for a minute, people here. Do you think that a hundred people who. Do you think that the scientists that confirm think that there is climate change are 100% wrong across the board? No. Even if they're 1% right, even if they're 5% right, we're risking our future. Not my future. Your future. Your future.

[Charlie Kirk]

Can I ask you a couple questions about. Sure. Okay. So the 97% study, you've heard that 97% scientists agree. We've never treated.

[Mark Cuban]

That's not the point.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no. We never treated science as a democracy, though. We don't take a vote on Newton's second law.

[Mark Cuban]

Yes, we do.

[Charlie Kirk]

We do.

[Mark Cuban]

Yes, we do.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, we don't. We do it through the scientific method.

[Mark Cuban]

No, we do it by the people who are. Look, this is a risk assessment, right? If there's a chance, do you, do you close your eyes when you cross the street?

[Charlie Kirk]

I hope not. I blame.

[Mark Cuban]

Right now there's. Even if you close, even if you close their eyes, there's a 97% chance you're not going to get hit. Right. But at least you go. You walk across the street with your eyes.

[Charlie Kirk]

So glad you mentioned that. So that's the next question is if we accept the premise. Let's pretend we accept the premise that climate change is happening at the degree they say it is and human beings are contributing to it, which has question has questioned the scientific community. If we accept that, then at what cost? And then if at what cost what.

[Mark Cuban]

How badly do you guys want to live.

[Charlie Kirk]

So. But, no, but, but this is, this is the question.

[Mark Cuban]

Seriously, how many Anybody here put a price in their life? Oh, you have. So I could buy you.

[Charlie Kirk]

But, but Mark, but Mark, hold on. This is, this is, this is important. Let. The Paris Climate Agreement said that we will have to regulate our economy with $2 trillion of extra regulation to maybe lower global temperatures by 1 degree by 2030. Is that a reasonable trade off, just 1 degree, so that we can. We have to prevent expansion for the poorest people around the world, for poor Americans that need access to coal in the Northeast.

[Mark Cuban]

Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

Lower global temperatures. I don't know.

[Mark Cuban]

Let me. Maybe I was. Maybe I'm dumb, right?

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, you're not.

[Mark Cuban]

But I like to maximize my opportunities to survive, right? I like to minimize. And I don't really put a cost on any of that. So no, let me go now. So there's a probability, whether it's 1%, 2% or 1 degree, 0.1 degree, 0.001 degree. There is a probability that you can assign to that that it will happen. Right? And if that probability in my mind is greater than zero, I have three kids. There's no amount of risk I'm willing and there's no amount of money I'm willing to assign to that risk if I think it challenges the world that my kids will live in.

[Charlie Kirk]

So let's play that out. I'm really worried about the kid in India or the kid in Vietnam or Laos, in Cambodia where their prime ministers are saying we need access to coal now so we can have access to.

[Mark Cuban]

You're really worried about those kids.

[Charlie Kirk]

We have access to schools, hospitals. I didn't hear what you said.

[Mark Cuban]

I said you're really worried about those kids.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm absolutely worried about those kids. That's why I support neoliberal trade policies that have lifted the most people out of poverty than any other idea.

[Mark Cuban]

Okay, so go ahead with.

[Charlie Kirk]

Less people are living in global poverty today than ever before. But I care about the 600 million people in India that don't have access to a hospital. And you know what the Prime Minister of India Modi said? We cannot build coal fired power plants fast enough which will allow people to live longer and healthier.

[Mark Cuban]

And you know what I believe in? I believe in each and every one of these people here that if we take the steps to minimize climate change to the best of our ability, not failure proof to the best of our ability. What I have seen with technology every step of the way my entire life, my entire adult life, I've dealt with technology, right? We get to a point where we start inventing things and it hits the hockey stick curve, right? And the inventions take off and change everything. When I remember being 16 years old and waiting in line for people that couldn't get gas because there were gas shortages and I would have to carry. I would carry gas cans and people would pay me $2 to wait to get gas for them. Now we export gas. And you know why that was. But because of the technology behind it, Right. We will come up with new technologies that change the equations for climate change and for diminishing the impact of climate change. But if we don't take those first steps, if we don't invest in making that happen, not only will it not happen or take a lot longer, it might take longer than the lifespans of the people that are 18 years old.

[Charlie Kirk]

This is good. I'm not anti environmental progress, but I would say the best way to get there is not through big United nations global commissions or parents treating climate accords. It's through entrepreneurs like Elon Musk that are going to do it, to take risks in the marketplace.

[Mark Cuban]

But they're not mutually exclusive. They're not mutually exclusive. Our country does make investments. We've gone to the moon. We continue to invest in space, we invest in military, we invest in artificial intelligence.

[Charlie Kirk]

Space Force.

[Mark Cuban]

Space Force.

[Charlie Kirk]

Space Force.

[Mark Cuban]

I thought he just walked away from space Force. But look, and we'll talk about AI before we leave too, because that's important to your future. But we do make investments. And again, I go back to if we have enough kids your age speaking up and saying that you want a country where climate change is being dealt with and our government is investing, that doesn't mean Elon Musk and other really smart people can't continue to invest. They will.

[Charlie Kirk]

So that's where I push back, though, is again, at what cost are we going to. We going to curtail talk about people's lives. You're right. People's lives in India and Vietnam, in here and here. Yes. People's lives in New Hampshire where they live in darkness eight months out of the year. And they need access to coal. And the. And no, they do. They need access to coal.

[Mark Cuban]

Fire. Okay, wait, I'll buy a truck and I'll ship them a bunch of coal.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right, okay. But the point being is the climate accord that was signed by Obama in 2025 would have made us less competitive, would have put us back economically, and China would have violated every single word of it. Look, and they would have continued to have a leg up on us.

[Mark Cuban]

Let me give you, Let, let me give you one of my favorite phrases on Shark Tank. Perfection is the enemy of profitability. When you look to make something perfect, as in India might screw it up, China might screw it up. Somebody's always going to try to screw it up no matter what because we're America. They're going to want to try to screw up whatever we do anyways. And everybody's got their own self interest. That's markets, right? They work in their own self. That's going to happen. But I look here and I see Hundreds of, of 18, give or take year olds and I have kids that are about to turn 9, 12 and 15. And I know that there's a greater than zero percent chance that climate change is going to impact the quality of their life. It might be on some coast somewhere, it might be ice, who knows, right? I don't know. I'm not the expert on it, but I know it's a greater than zero chance. And if I'm not doing everything possible and if I'm not, and I think our government is in a better position than any individual entrepreneur to help.

[Charlie Kirk]

I don't agree with that.

[Mark Cuban]

So why don't we just put that do the same thing with the defense.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, because defense is something that the government should do because we have.

[Mark Cuban]

Why? I mean, because it's about protecting the security of our citizens. Right?

[Charlie Kirk]

I'll tell you why. Because there's a broad, there's a unanimous agreement amongst the US Citizenry that we have geopolitical threats and there's not a unanimous agreement amongst US Citizenry that climate change is a threat to the US citizen population.

[Mark Cuban]

Okay, so let me use your, let

[Charlie Kirk]

me use your equating climate change to.

[Mark Cuban]

No, no, no, don't play that game. That's.

[Charlie Kirk]

You just brought up the Department of Defense.

[Mark Cuban]

No, what I'm equating it with is people making choices to protect ourselves. Right. That there are multiple threats. I'm not saying we don't invest in defense. I think we do. I think we under invest in artificial intelligence and the things that are really impact us for the future. That's our biggest risk. Because if you want to play the tit for tat game, well, the only, you know, we haven't really been attacked other than nine, 11 and you know, December 7, 1941. So two instances and we're spending $600 billion. I don't agree with that, but that's the same, that's the same type of logic Approach, Right. So the point being. The point being, How about our coal miner? We are going to to face more and more climate threats going forward. I get your point that the entrepreneurs like myself and green entrepreneurs more so than me, are going to continue to invest. But it's. We stand to gain more for our citizens. Put aside what everybody else will do. I know they all fit together, right? I understand. Climate is climate for the whole pollutes.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's the same atmosphere.

[Mark Cuban]

But the last time I've checked, we are a global leader still, right? Yes. And if we're able to demonstrate impact that we are having a demonstrable technological impact on climate change, people will follow our lead. China will steal our technology and use it there. We'll license it to India, we'll license it to other heavy polluters and we'll have a better future. Not just for my kids and the kids here, but for the kids in India and other places that you're concerned about. But that doesn't happen if we just leave it to the free market. Because it's such a big problem.

[Charlie Kirk]

See that?

[Mark Cuban]

It's such a big expensive problem.

[Charlie Kirk]

So big problems are better tackled by entrepreneurs.

[Mark Cuban]

Together?

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I don't know. Together, I don't know. I would say that risk taking entrepreneurs have shown the progress. So like for example, the USB drive has saved far more trees than Greenpeace ever will.

[Mark Cuban]

I'm not going to argue with that.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right. That's an entrepreneurial solution to. Oh my goodness, we're going to run out of trees because of all the paper in our world.

[Mark Cuban]

But I'm trying to think of the historical.

[Charlie Kirk]

Back back in the 70s and 80s, people were worried about deforestation. They're worried about too much.

[Mark Cuban]

No, they were worried about 10 megabyte

[Charlie Kirk]

also, by the way, just in the 1980s cover of Time magazine, they said we were going to have global cooling. So I do have to say that that was that. That that was true.

[Mark Cuban]

You know that that's not the point either. The point is there are big problems that we have to address.

[Charlie Kirk]

But the best way to address big problems are people like you taking risks and entrepreneurs. That's the best way to do it.

[Mark Cuban]

But there are certain projects that the government is in a better position to implement. Let's talk about artificial intelligence. Because it's the same argument, right. China says they have a 2025 mandate to dominate in artificial intelligence. Right. Russia says whoever. Vladi, my buddy. Vladi, your buddy. Collusion, Duh. Sidi. Vlade. That's what I would say to him. Little Russian. I took high school Russian. But with artificial intelligence. Vlade says whoever wins the artificial intelligence race will dominate our biggest companies by market cap. Google, Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft, et cetera, are all focused on artificial intelligence. But China is spending a whole lot more than they are in aggregate. Our entrepreneurs are in aggregate. Right. China, because it's a communist country and President Xi gets to do whatever he damn well pleases, is implementing in ways that we couldn't even dream of because they don't care about privacy. Right? We need to be ready to address what they're going to be able to do in an AI. And our. Our defense organizations are starting to. But as a country, the administration is barely even acknowledging that it's an issue. That is an investment that has to come from government. We can't do enough independently with independent entrepreneurs, because, trust me, I understand AI. And there is bigger. It's bigger than what any individual company can do, because Google, Microsoft, et cetera, aren't worried about defense applications. They're worried about making more money, and they're using it to make more money. So that's an issue. And let me continue on, right? Let me scare the shit out of you, all right? If you don't think by the time most of you are in your mid-40s that a terminator will appear, you're crazy. And the only thing holding it back is power supplies. Power supplies. Right. Now, this may sound crazy for a lot of people, but the idea of autonomous weaponry in a mobile device run by a remote power device is going to happen. I want it to be ours, and I want to be able to know that the government is in position to defend against autonomous weaponry. That has to be done by the government. That's the same approach we have because it's such a big issue.

[Charlie Kirk]

This is so interesting because I couldn't disagree more, but let me tell you why. Almost every time, government disagreement is what makes a market. That's exactly right. Every. Almost every time government tries to solve a big problem, they make it worse. War on poverty, public schools, you know, obesity, coalitions. Let me finish. Let me finish. Let me finish. Now, with that being said, the president can talk about it. He can encourage it. He can. He can try to influence it, do private public commissions, all that sort of stuff. But as soon as you appropriate tax dollars towards something, here's what happens. If you subsidize something, you get more of it. When government puts money at something, usually crony deals are handed out. You know that, right? Crony deals. We don't want that. Market is much more efficient with those dollars. Entrepreneurs from the bottom up are much more likely to come up with solutions to pre existing issues than a top down corporation seeking government funding would. The final thing I'll say is this. We don't have commissions to try to solve starvation from the government. We have grocery stores with more food that they're throwing away than they're actually selling. We have an abundance problem in America. And so I think we want to solve the artificial intelligence problem. We should say this. Let's make a national push for it. Let's have a public consensus it needs to happen and then have a race to say we will beat China, but not by through government funding, but through our entrepreneurs. People like you, like me.

[Mark Cuban]

Let me ask you a question.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's how we're going to solve the problem.

[Mark Cuban]

I don't, I don't disagree that there's inherent inefficiencies in government programs. Right. They're almost like VCs. VCs get one out of 10. Right. And the one they get. Right. Covers. Yeah, covers them. I'm okay with most of that. Right. I prefer that a lot of big government programs go away. Look, if I ran the show I would, you have no idea how I would change things. But when it comes to big picture items, when it comes to global items, AI, if you, if you believe in spending 600 billion or more for defense, but whatever the number is, right. The future of warfare is on built around through up and down artificial intelligence. If we don't win that war, the next generation that are sitting there having this conversation for the next generation of high school kids, it's going to be how are we going to catch up?

[Charlie Kirk]

Sure.

[Mark Cuban]

That's why we need to invest now. I don't know that we have the people in place in the government right now to make those investments. I think that's a challenge and a problem. I think we're truly at threat from autonomous weapons. Unless as a nation we either come to agreements with other nations on this and we have the ability to monitor them. You know, trust but verify. But as big a threat as nuclear is, AI is even bigger.

[Charlie Kirk]

Do you think we'll see singularity sometime soon?

[Mark Cuban]

Not, not in the next 50 years. But that's the hope.

[Charlie Kirk]

So you think it's. At least some people have, you know, 20, 36 or.

[Mark Cuban]

Yeah, not, not in the next 50 years. But again, I want to say this again for weaponry. We already have the ability to have weapons think to. There's already the ability for autonomous weapons and they're only going to go further, further, further as processors get more advanced. Once we solve the battery problem, the portable battery problem. So these terminators can be out in the field for an extended period of time. If we don't win that battle, this world's upside down. That's what scares the shit out of me. And that's climate change has that same. Let me take you sign a percentage probability to what I just said. 1%, 2%, 5%. You have to be concerned climate change is the same way. You sign a probability that things really could get bad. 1%, 2%. All the rest is mishigosh, right? It's just rambling because if you're wrong, the loss is enormous and you have to hedge against that.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right. Well, we're gonna open up for questions, but I do want to finish this because the question is how bad will actually get? How can you prove it? Second, the third question is. No, the third question is can you actually prove without a shadow of a doubt that humans are contributing to rise of global temperatures? And you can't. There's a lot of scientists that believe when you have a climate that has trillions of hydrocarbons, of different molecules, with sunspots, solar flares, rising and lowering global temperatures. Let me give an example. When the founding fathers wrote the US Constitution, Scotland had a Mediterranean climate. One hundred years later, Scotland has a climate much similar to ours. There was very little carbon emissions over that hundred years. But we have evidence that the climate changed so dramatically that temperatures were gone by almost 25 degrees in 100 years. What made that happen? Well, there's an argument made sometimes things get cooler and hotter naturally without, without human interaction or carbon emission. So that's the question is are we going to hamper human life expectancy and production and third world.

[Mark Cuban]

Okay, so let me put a Trumpian hat on. Let me put a Trumpian hat on,

[Charlie Kirk]

right, because what's the cost? Benefit analysis and the opportunity cost.

[Mark Cuban]

Great, here we are. And would you agree that there's at least a greater than 0% chance that there are man made hazards with the

[Charlie Kirk]

climate with a greater than 0%? Of course I would say.

[Mark Cuban]

Okay, great, that's all. So here we are with an economy that's booming, right?

[Charlie Kirk]

Thank you Trump for booming the economy.

[Mark Cuban]

If not now, when?

[Charlie Kirk]

Never let the market solve it. So markets solve problems, entrepreneurs solve problems.

[Mark Cuban]

At what point, so at what point, at what point do you look around and say Miami is starting to flood. And look, you get, there's always excuses for everything, right?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, I'M not saying there's always Mark. I'm going to put you on the spot here. Starts at the individual. You fly private jet.

[Mark Cuban]

Yeah, of course, but I buy carbon offsets. But I buy carbon offset.

[Charlie Kirk]

Worst polluter.

[Mark Cuban]

But I buy carbon offsets. I buy my carbon offsets.

[Charlie Kirk]

I buy my carbon offset solar panels on your house.

[Mark Cuban]

We're starting to install them. But I buy carbon.

[Charlie Kirk]

I admire you.

[Mark Cuban]

We're buying carbon offsets for everything I do. Everything.

[Charlie Kirk]

And you know what? The change starts at the individual. Right.

[Mark Cuban]

No question, no question about it.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm not, they're not mutually exclusive, none whatsoever. But what I see is these philosopher kings that are popping up, Leonardo DiCaprio, that fly around on their private jet and say everyone else must live other ways. And then I, I live somewhere different. The best change starts the individual. But here's what I'm saying. If this is such a huge issue, which you believe it is, let's start a charity. Let's raise billions of dollars independently of government and that will be more efficient and more.

[Mark Cuban]

It's not enough.

[Charlie Kirk]

Then,

[Mark Cuban]

Look, if I, if I thought that was enough, I would just give a billion or two dollars.

[Charlie Kirk]

Do it.

[Mark Cuban]

It's not enough. It takes regulatory change.

[Charlie Kirk]

Then get enough. I guarantee you, I guarantee you, if you pledged a billion, you could get another hundred billionaires. You'd have $100 billion charity to solve climate change and that would be more effectively spent than government would ever do it.

[Mark Cuban]

It wouldn't change it because.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, so it wouldn't change it.

[Mark Cuban]

No, no. What I'm saying is there are points when regulation, regulations help. Would you agree? There are regulations that help.

[Charlie Kirk]

Without a doubt. But we're way past the point of normal regulation. We have, we have gone far off that.

[Mark Cuban]

Well, wait, but don't we have that the president. That is the perfect president to introduce the right kind of regulation.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I think he should continue to cut regulation and cut.

[Mark Cuban]

No, but, but for this in particular, we're not talking about general business regulation. You have a president that across the board is cutting regulation. This is the future of kids in this audience. This is a greater than zero risk. Regulation could at least potentially help and reduce.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right. So if you. I would totally. I wouldn't say that any sort of form of regulation would be worth the cost benefit analysis of hindering potential economic growth to try to potentially lower global temperatures because we're not yet certain humans are possibly, maybe totally contributing.

[Mark Cuban]

Do you realize there are limits to economic growth? Right? That sometimes economies overheat, that if you do have too much growth and interest rates go up. Now, in our particular case, if interest rates go up too high because our debt's going up so dramatically right now, big problem. It could be a big problem for us. A really big problem for us. Right. But different question again. The point is you have to hedge, right? There are no absolutes. And when you're dealing with lives, sometimes you have to put economy aside again. Entrepreneurs, me, whoever, you all hopefully will come up with solutions that will be better. And at that point in time, the government can say, we don't have to be here anymore. You take over. Just like health care, right? Health care, Obamacare. I was all for it because more people got covered. But I knew that there was a better way. They're not mutually exclusive. You can have government work on big problems. Not the little ones, the big ones, right? And have an impact. Look, if it were up to me, it'd be healthcare, it'd be climate change, it'd be artificial intelligence, maybe some other safety items, and that's it. Maybe finance, right? That'd be enough things to regulate. But those are the big things that have to be regulated. You can't just exclude them.

[Charlie Kirk]

I think we're open up for some questions.

[Mark Cuban]

I love this stuff.

[Charlie Kirk]

Isn't that great, Mark?

[Mark Cuban]

I love it.

[Charlie Kirk]

This is good.

[Audience Member (Lucy, Kiana, Maggie, Mara Titus)]

Hi, my name is Lucy, and I'm about to be a senior at iu.

[Charlie Kirk]

What?

[Mark Cuban]

Go Hoosiers?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[Audience Member (Lucy, Kiana, Maggie, Mara Titus)]

And I'm kind of having a crisis because I don't know if I should go to grad school and get my MBA. What is your opinion as someone who graduated from IU?

[Mark Cuban]

I'm not a fan of getting MBAs at all. I'm a fan of going to college, but not a fan of getting an mba. Why? Because there's so many online ways to learn, and I think you can get far more experience in the workforce than. And learn more and be in a better position to succeed. Because realize, look, there are so many online MBA equivalents that if you're disciplined enough, you can do it for a lot less money and still get a quality education. Now, that said, I'm a big believer in going to college. Right. I just. I'm just not a big fan of MBAs, even at IU.

[Charlie Kirk]

Over here.

[Audience Member (Lucy, Kiana, Maggie, Mara Titus)]

Hi, my name is Kiana, and I was wondering, if Charlie went on Shark Tank six years ago, would Turning Point USA be something you'd invest in?

[Mark Cuban]

Absolutely.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, there we go.

[Mark Cuban]

Sometimes you bet in the company, sometimes you invest in the horse, and sometimes you invest in the jockey. I'd Invest in the jockey. For sure.

[Charlie Kirk]

Thank you. All right, one more over here.

[Audience Member (Benjamin, Matthew)]

Hi, my name is Benjamin. I'm 16, I'm from Colorado. So me and my friends were talking over here. We wanted to ask you about the healthcare, how you're talking about, like your government proposed healthcare. And we worked for a guy who was running for governor in Colorado, and his idea was that the government should not be involved in healthcare. There should not be big businesses in healthcare. He said that his idea was there was, like clinics that he went to and he visited in Virginia and they were completely run by nurse practitioners. And he said if he was elected governor, that would be his plan for Colorado to completely get the government and the big businesses out of health care.

[Mark Cuban]

The problem is in 1986 we passed a law that said if someone goes into a hospital, they gotta be taken care of. President Reagan passed that when somebody is sick and ill, we end up paying for them somehow, some way. The question is, if they don't have a job, they're going to be on Medicaid. If they're older or sick, in certain circumstances, they'll be on Medicare. Everybody else in the middle. Just because you're not paying for them directly doesn't mean you're not paying for them. And when people are sick or hurt or dying, we all pay for them one way or the other in productivity or other ways. So we have to come up with a solution. And personally, I think healthcare is a right and it's just a question of what's the best way to deal with it.

[Charlie Kirk]

We could have a long conversation about that, but we'll move on.

[Audience Member]

So, one, I'm enjoying this conversation. It's nice to be able to actually converse and not agree all the time. But it sounds like you were talking about actually implementing the technology that we currently have and having regulation implement it. Right now I'm thinking you may more be intending to invest into actual invention of new technology that's more useful because current technology as it stands is not usable in its current stance for being efficient.

[Mark Cuban]

I'm not.

[Audience Member]

I'm sorry, so you're, I'm asking, are you more interested in actually investing into the invention or the implementation of current technology?

[Mark Cuban]

Well, I mean, invention, current technology, whatever. I'm looking for opportunities. I'm always opportunistic. And so, you know, when I invest in AI, I'm looking for new ways to change the world. I'm looking for new ways to change industries. I'm. I always try to look for ways to disrupt. So that's how I. How I invest.

[Audience Member (Benjamin, Matthew)]

Okay, we got one more here.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. Hi, I'm Matthew and I'm 14 from Washington D.C. and since you seem very invested in future technologies, based on current events, do you think Elon Musk is qualified to take people to space and to different planets with SpaceX?

[Mark Cuban]

We'll find out. I don't know.

[Charlie Kirk]

Next one.

[Audience Member (Benjamin, Matthew)]

Be my last one.

[Audience Member (Lucy, Kiana, Maggie, Mara Titus)]

Hi, Mark. I'm Maggie, actually, from a long line of entrepreneurs, and I started my own business when I was 15.

[Mark Cuban]

Congratulations.

[Audience Member (Lucy, Kiana, Maggie, Mara Titus)]

Thank you. In your opinion, what are the unforeseen downsides to success in business and politics?

[Mark Cuban]

You know, success, early success can be a lousy teacher because you tend to get overconfident and think that you have the answer to everything. And, you know, that's why I mentioned earlier, I always try to check my hole card because I recognize that I'm not right about everything. And so really not being arrogant. And I'll tell you something else I've learned, particularly as I got older, is that the power of nice is really, really important in business, that just being nice will give you such a huge advantage over other entrepreneurs and other businesses that, you know, just trying to be a little humble and realize you can be wrong. That's where a lot of entrepreneurs who have had early success really run into a problem.

[Charlie Kirk]

The one thing I'll add six words you should say every day. Say I don't know and say, tell me more. Those are six things you should always say. Never be afraid in a conversation to say I don't know, and then never be afraid to say, tell me more. Every day, say those six words. And if you think you know everything, you don't. I'm learning something every day. I try to read a book a week. Tell me more. Curiosity is the most important attribute of a successful entrepreneur.

[Audience Member (Lucy, Kiana, Maggie, Mara Titus)]

Hi, my name is Mara Titus. I'm from North Carolina. And my question was, what's the weirdest product that has ever been introduced on Shark Tank?

[Mark Cuban]

Weirdest product. There's so many weird products on Shark Tank. We've had a fart candle. You don't know what it's like being on national tv, having to. It was nasty. There's just so many. But watch all the replays. You. You decide. Yeah. Potato parcel.

[Charlie Kirk]

That was interesting. We have one more.

[Mark Cuban]

Want to draw a cat for you?

[Charlie Kirk]

I think we have time for one more.

[Audience Member (Matt)]

Hello, my name is Matt.

[Mark Cuban]

Hey, Matt.

[Audience Member (Matt)]

So I'm a computer science student and I'm definitely cyber security and AI is like a big problem. So I'm. I, I don't know if you're right or, or what. I'm. I'm still looking for answers on that myself. Okay. And another thing's about climate. I love the conversation you were having. So I just kind of wanted to get your opinion more on what exactly we should be doing with AI and with SO Climate.

[Mark Cuban]

For, for those of you who, you know, you're young, if you don't pay attention to what AI is, if you don't go to, let's say, Amazon, AWS or just go, what I would suggest is go to YouTube and just type in Introduction to Machine Learning and just watch it to see what it is. Type in Introduction to Neural Networks. Just watch some of the presentations that are on YouTube. The impact that the Internet has had and the changes that your parents went through more than you, because you grew up with the Internet will be, is minimal compared to the impact that AI is going to have, is having and will have. What's changed over the past couple years that's really accelerating it is the speed of processors, these things called GPUs, which were originally just used for gaming, but now they keep on getting more and more advanced, smaller, faster and able to do more, which allow more, allows more processing to go to happen in a, in a small space. That's going to change how things are done. Literally who you work for, how you work. The type of work you do is going to be completely different than your parents within the next 10 to 15 years. And so paying attention to AI and so what you're doing with computer science is great. But even if you have no interest in computers, no interest in programming, it doesn't matter. Just like you laugh at your parents who might or might not understand Snapchat and Instagram and tw, Twitter and the like. You know, you're going to have to understand AI or people are going to laugh at you.

[Audience Member (Matt)]

And one last thing I want to say. I remember earlier this morning Charlie was speaking and he said something about Saudi Arabia. I remember. And how Saudi Arabia really isn't a very moral country and we don't share their values. So in the long term, I definitely agree with Charlie that we should have more market solutions. But I kind of want to hear what you think because in the short term, we're very dependent on Saudi Arabian oil right now. And I'm thinking we probably should be funding through the government. Actually, a lot of people here are going to disagree with me, but we should be putting subsidies towards green energy so we don't have to rely on these immoral countries.

[Mark Cuban]

Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to judge Saudi Arabia one way or the other. I don't, I don't know anybody from, from there or a couple of people. But, you know, an argument could be made both ways. Obviously, Charlie would tell you to come up with a market driven solution. I would tell you for our biggest problems. Sometimes the thing about market driven solutions, there's always opportunity and an entrepreneur will typically end up winning almost all the time. But in the interim, we still as a country need solutions and where we can set a foundation that helps entrepreneurs and accelerates entrepreneurs for big problems. I always think that's a good thing.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, let's give it up. Just thank Mark again for coming. Let's give it up for Mark

[Mark Cuban]

and for Charlie. It was a lot of fun, buddy. Really.

[Charlie Kirk]

We, we don't, we don't agree on everything, but this is what America is all about. Disagreement, civility, exchange of ideas. So thank you, Mark. We appreciate it. Thank you.

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[Charlie Kirk]

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[Charlie Kirk]

What a great conversation that was. Please consider getting involved with TurningPoint [e-mail] email me your questions. Freedom charliekirk.com and the first 15 people to do so of subscribing to the Charlie Kirk show, giving a five star review, screenshotting and emailing it in at freedom charliekirk.com will get a signed copy of the MAGA doctrine. Thank you for supporting the Charlie kirk [e-mail] support we value our supporters so much and we'll come up with some more episodes very soon. God bless you. I'll be back in the saddle very, very soon. I appreciate you. Thanks so much.