Rob McCoy (1:49)

So they can at least imagine.

Charlie Kirk (1:51)

So honored to have you both here. I actually met your grandfather, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth Kravchak (1:55)

Yes.

Charlie Kirk (1:55)

At Rob McCoy's church.

Rob McCoy (1:57)

Yeah.

Charlie Kirk (1:58)

Two weeks ago. Two weeks ago. And one of the most amazing stories. I'm reading his book right now called KGB's most wanted. Joseph Bardorenko.

Elizabeth Kravchak (2:08)

Bondarenko. Close. You got it, though.

Charlie Kirk (2:10)

Okay. Bondarenko is his name.

Elizabeth Kravchak (2:12)

Yes.

Charlie Kirk (2:12)

He was arrested, I think, right around my age. 26 years old?

Elizabeth Kravchak (2:16)

Yes. I believe he was 25.

Charlie Kirk (2:17)

25. And he didn't even know he was being arrested when he was called in by the KGB and the USSR authorities for spreading the gospel. Tell us about your grandfather.

Elizabeth Kravchak (2:27)

Yeah. So basically, my grandpa obviously grew up in the Communist regime. How it all really started is at a young age, he gave his life to the Lord and was serving in the church, and his family was Christian. But it all really took off when he went to a university in Odessa, that's in Ukraine, and he was almost done with school. So he's, you know, finishing up how we would be doing our thesis his senior year and all of that. And the dean of students called him in one day and said, basically, you need to make a decision. Either you're going to have your diploma for the Navy School, or you're going to choose God. Which one is it? Tomorrow you have to make a decision in front of the entire student body. And it was basically like an auditorium. And he had one night to think about it, and he went back and forth because it's either giving up your dream, it's something he studied for for almost five years, or it was God. And he went up on stage and he chose God. He chose the Bible, and that was a start. And just a few short months later, he was arrested and spent 10 years in the Gulags.

Charlie Kirk (3:33)

Yeah. And you read the book, and I'm not finished with it yet, but I'm at the point. I'm at the part where he was spending 23 hours a day on the ground.

Elizabeth Kravchak (3:40)

Yes.

Charlie Kirk (3:41)

No light, no food, no water. What he described was the most inhuman conditions. But what's amazing about how he described it was that he said he had total joy right through the whole thing because he had joy in Jesus Christ. So just for everyone listening, I want you to listen very carefully to this. This is a pastor that was in the Soviet Union. They don't teach this in our schools. They don't teach how the persecution of Christians and free expression. I've met him. This is not that far removed. No, no.

Rob McCoy (4:10)

He's living.

Charlie Kirk (4:11)

This is not like ancient Egypt or Mesopotamia or the Aztecs. I've met him, and he is an immigrant to the United States, the type of immigrant we actually need in our country, that loves our country. And so, Rob, you're a pastor. We've talked at length on this podcast before, and I encourage everyone to go back in the archives to check it out. But there's a war on Christianity right now. What does Joseph's testimony tell you to what you're actually fighting for right now.

Rob McCoy (4:38)

Yeah. And I'm thankful that you have Elizabeth on the program, because I met Joseph a little bit before you did. I was doing a freedom rally in Santa Barbara, and there's an elderly gentleman there with a younger guy. And all of a sudden, this group comes up to me, and they've got Russian, Ukrainian accents. And Daniel, which is your uncle. Yes, my uncle comes up to me and he says, this is my father. You don't know his story, but he signed this book. He'd heard about you long ago. He knows how critical what you're doing is, and he wanted you to have this. And he realized you were coming today. So he came down to this event. He had to walk through the soft sand in Santa Barbara, get down there. He gives me this book, tears in his eyes. And Daniel is precious. He's the American story, you know, the success story. Your whole family is these Christian Ukrainians that just make a go of it in America and just explode in success. And I meet this man, and my heart is melted. Now, he doesn't speak English. He's translated through his son. And as Daniel's sharing this, I said, you need to come. And I said, charlie Kirk, you're going to love him. He says, I love Charlie. I said, he's going to be at our church. And I told him the date. And sure enough, they came. And what you're asking me is, what does it mean to me as a pastor? Well, first I was moved there when he prayed for me, and he articulated what we're facing as a nation. And then he went on, through interpretation, through his son, to tell me what we're facing as a nation. So severe that he had seen this coming in the Ukraine. And I don't know if you remember this, but he's a man of many words, and he didn't use many that day when you had him come up and he gave. He gave a warning to America. Do you remember that?

Charlie Kirk (6:13)

Yeah. I mean, he basically said, the course you're on is not going to end well. Something if my memory is.

Rob McCoy (6:19)

And he basically said, too. You don't realize what you have in America and you're losing it, and you have to awaken because they're going to take it from you. And he went through this understanding, and I.

Charlie Kirk (6:28)

That book that you're capturing, KGB's most wanted, and I'm. I have it right by my bedside. And it's a. It's a thick book, not in the sense of how long it is. It's so thick in what you're reading, and it's very. It reminds me of the Gulag Archipelago. It really does. Where you ask yourself, how could this happen? And it's amazing because he talks about his father in the book. Who would be your great grandfather.

Elizabeth Kravchak (6:55)

Yes.

Charlie Kirk (6:56)

And how he was fighting for Christianity. And at the time, the Soviet was the prior tsarist. Russia, when he was growing up, was not as hostile towards Christianity, but there was still kind of a tension. Yeah. Like, hey, we don't like this as much. But then all of a sudden, Stalin realized that we have to get rid of Christianity. This is a huge threat. Like, if we allow this to continue, you know, it could be the end of this.

Rob McCoy (7:20)

I think he's a clarion call, and he was a gift to both me and to you that we are to awaken to what God wants to do in calling the church in America to wake up that these freedoms and these liberties. You can vote yourself into socialism, but you're going to shoot your way out.

Elizabeth Kravchak (7:35)

Right. My par. Grandpa always says, Pastor Rob, that although, for example, in America, in our gen, especially my generation, to us, it seems that socialism and communism is just a type of system. You know, it's something we see in our government, but it's really a form of religion. But their religion is anti God and secularism. They.

Charlie Kirk (7:55)

So. So, Elizabeth, this is improper, but I have to ask. How old are you?

Elizabeth Kravchak (7:59)

I'm 20. I'm turning 21 in November.

Charlie Kirk (8:01)

All right. So are you at university or.

Elizabeth Kravchak (8:03)

Yes.

Rob McCoy (8:03)

You got to hear the story, Charlie.

Charlie Kirk (8:04)

It'll.

Rob McCoy (8:05)

It'll make you upset.

Charlie Kirk (8:06)

I'm curious, though.

Rob McCoy (8:07)

I love it, folks.

Charlie Kirk (8:08)

So you're at university. Yes. I apologize for asking your age. It's not polite.

Elizabeth Kravchak (8:11)

So you're totally fine.

Rob McCoy (8:12)

She understands.

Charlie Kirk (8:14)

So I want to walk. I want to. Let's walk our way to the part I'm not going to like. So you grew up learning about your grandfather and just really from your parents, saying you must listen to the story 100%?

Elizabeth Kravchak (8:26)

Yes. So I'm first generation American.

Charlie Kirk (8:28)

Really?

Elizabeth Kravchak (8:29)

Yes. I'm the first one to be born in America. My sister was born in Latvia, so she's the first granddaughter, but she was born in Latvia and I was the first one here.

Rob McCoy (8:37)

So you kind of say that with a little bit of pride.

Elizabeth Kravchak (8:39)

Yeah, I mean, I'm the first generation American. I'm prideful in that I love America.

Rob McCoy (8:43)

That's right.

Elizabeth Kravchak (8:44)

But we moved to California when I was five. But. Sorry, lost my train of thought.

Charlie Kirk (8:50)

You grew up in America.

Elizabeth Kravchak (8:51)

First generation I always grew up hearing. There was two statements. My grandpa said, be bold and do not compromise. And that's what I grew up with. I heard my grandpa would always share the stories, and I would hear my family, you know, tell of. Tell me what. Of what they went through and the persecution they went through. And.

Charlie Kirk (9:08)

Yeah, there's so real. Right. It was like, no joking around.

Elizabeth Kravchak (9:12)

It was no joke. It wasn't like, you know, some fairy tale or once upon a time, four generations ago. It's like, no.

Charlie Kirk (9:17)

And I have to interrupt you. When I. When I spend time around Eastern Europeans, it's. It's not. It's. They. They grab you by the. They say you don't understand what you have. I mean, I met your amazing family before the third service. And, like, the intensity in the eyes is like, I feel like I'm finally connecting with somebody on this.

Elizabeth Kravchak (9:34)

Yes, we love America, but when. My mom always says, when my family first came here, we fled from this persecution and we wanted to experience the beauty of this country, the freedom that we have, that joy just so you can worship God freely and no one's knocking down on your doors trying to rip your Bible away. But when they first came, they already started noticing little bits of socialism popping up here and there. They noticed it immediately, but no one else was noticing it because they're so, you know, used to seeing it. They saw it.

Charlie Kirk (10:03)

They have a trained eye.

Elizabeth Kravchak (10:04)

Yes.

Charlie Kirk (10:04)

So you're at university.

Elizabeth Kravchak (10:06)

Yes.

Charlie Kirk (10:07)

Can you say where you go or.

Elizabeth Kravchak (10:08)

Sure, I can say. I go to Point Loma Nazarene University.

Charlie Kirk (10:10)

Okay. A Christian university. So without getting yourself in too much trouble, you're talking generalities.

Elizabeth Kravchak (10:17)

Yes.

Rob McCoy (10:18)

Let me help you something. This girl right here. Fearless. Okay, I know, but I know you're very concerned.

Charlie Kirk (10:23)

I'm concerned because I.

Rob McCoy (10:24)

You're a good man.

Charlie Kirk (10:25)

So have you ever had a discussion with your professors about socialism?

Elizabeth Kravchak (10:30)

More or less. Yes. I wrote a paper. I took a class. I'm a political science major, so we have a lot of interesting discussions and classes. I wrote a paper on why I choose to be a Republican. Why my beliefs. My political beliefs are the way they are. And out of all the papers that I wrote in the class, that was the only one that I got a good grade in. All the other ones were really? Yes, all them were. All of them were political papers, obviously. But that was the only one. Yeah.

Rob McCoy (10:59)

Prior to that, Straight A's.

Elizabeth Kravchak (11:00)

Right.

Charlie Kirk (11:01)

Wait, that you got a good grade in or not a good grade?

Elizabeth Kravchak (11:03)

Good grade in, surprisingly, but every other political paper.

Charlie Kirk (11:06)

So what was the Story I wasn't going to like.

Rob McCoy (11:08)

Oh, well, don't. She. She, you'll see. But she, that paper, she gets an A on every other paper she doesn't get a good grade on. But prior to that, especially in high school, this is a brilliant student.

Elizabeth Kravchak (11:16)

Right.

Rob McCoy (11:17)

And so you go into your political science, one of the classes, you have a pretty liberal professor. She puts out her pronouns.

Elizabeth Kravchak (11:23)

Yes, it's, it is as flat out as it can get. You get your syllabus and the pronouns are there.

Rob McCoy (11:28)

And it's supposed to be a conservative Christian school.

Elizabeth Kravchak (11:30)

And it says, email me if you have different pronouns or if you prefer something else.

Charlie Kirk (11:35)

So you probably have friends somewhere that are advocating for socialist ideas 100%.

Elizabeth Kravchak (11:40)

And I've talked to plenty of people who are in my major and outside of my major and all of them have told me the same thing. It's not going to look like that in America. What you are afraid of is an authoritative regime. But I swear it's not going to happen here. It's going to look different.

Rob McCoy (11:55)

American socialism is the same as socialism in Russia.

Elizabeth Kravchak (11:58)

Right.

Rob McCoy (11:58)

It's just, it's a, it's a turd that has sprinkles on it in America.

Charlie Kirk (12:02)

That's all.

Elizabeth Kravchak (12:02)

Well, what am I feeling like, say, is it's coming from the back door, not the front door.

Charlie Kirk (12:05)

Yeah, yeah, so, so does it. I'm sure it makes you angry though, when you meet young people that are trying to tell your family what socialism is.

Elizabeth Kravchak (12:14)

Exactly. It's, it's so frustrating because honestly, the most frustrating thing is a lot of people always ask me, why do you support Donald Trump? And I go ahead and I tell them, because Donald Trump is never going to allow socialism into this country. While he.

Charlie Kirk (12:26)

That's like a non negotiable, non negotiable. That is not all this tone tweets, you don't care. No talk. Tell us more. Because, because I have people that listen to this podcast or that are out there that say, well, I don't like his tone or his tweets. For you, it says it's irrelevant.

Elizabeth Kravchak (12:42)

It's irrelevant.

Charlie Kirk (12:43)

We must have the most unstoppable force to prevent socialism 100%.

Elizabeth Kravchak (12:49)

Because I don't think they realize that it's not just an economic thing or a free college or whatever. It's literally every single one of your rights. Everything is going to be taken away and you're never going to have any freedom. And if it's Donald Trump that's going to get me the capitalism and the antisocialism then I'm taking it.

Charlie Kirk (13:07)

So, Rob, you're hearing this and her grandfather being a pastor and the connection of you being a pastor fighting for freedom and liberty. So many Christians are asleep at the wheel, if not complicit on the other side. You and I have talked about this at some length before. I'm seeing more Christians rise up, I think.

Rob McCoy (13:23)

I hope so.

Charlie Kirk (13:24)

I think I'm a little bit.

Rob McCoy (13:26)

Love, hopes, all things.

Charlie Kirk (13:27)

Yeah, Amen. But kind of update us. What have you seen since the last time we sat down?

Rob McCoy (13:36)

Well, I'll give you a couple examples.

Charlie Kirk (13:38)

Good, bad or indifferent.

Rob McCoy (13:39)

Yeah. So you and I have had a couple podcasts together and I've been encouraged by listeners all across the country reaching

Charlie Kirk (13:45)

out to you, reaching out.

Rob McCoy (13:46)

And thank you to all of them. And I'm terrible at emails and terrible at social media and I'm archaic and I'm a Luddite and, you know, a boomer. Thank you. But to all those out there, thank you. And I would also add that those folks have responded. But what's interesting, Charlie, is our church has tripled in size.

Charlie Kirk (14:03)

Tripled, Tripled. During a pandemic.

Rob McCoy (14:05)

During a pandemic. And we have no face masks required. We're fully open in California, even though they only allow 100 seats. We're 100 people in. It's Wild West. Everyone come in and we're the bane of social media. They attack us on and on and on. But these are folks that are fearless, that have come. And that's where I got connected with your family. Not only amic in Santa Barbara, but your family is literally driving down from Santa Barbara to participate in our services. And I think folks are looking at their churches and saying, if all you're going to give me is a live stream, that's like watching a fireplace on a computer. There's no warmth. This is not church. It commands us not to forsake fellowshipping with the saints. You don't understand. This is a violation of religious liberty. You don't even know what religious liberty is. I'm tired of this. I've had a 90 day experiment in socialism. I don't want it. And I'm going to go find a church. And I know a number of them are probably sitting in our sanctuary going, well, he's not that great of a pastor, but there's nowhere else to go.

Elizabeth Kravchak (15:03)

Not true at all.

Rob McCoy (15:04)

But my point is they want their pastors to open their stinking churches. Yes, stinking. I just mean that in a funny way. They want their pastors to open the churches. So I think there's a congregational push for that. I think pastors are realizing that they're going to have to reexamine this because they're watching these religious liberties erode. They're not going to stop. And then we watch this Black Lives Matter. And it's going to be a backlash to all these pastors who push for the black tiles, because you're seeing a number, and we're watching this, a number of black Americans coming to our church who disdain what BLM stands for as

Charlie Kirk (15:41)

far as socialism is concerned. I want to say something. The left, they are the best, linguistically, way better than the right because they picked a statement that is absolutely true. And so they pick an unbelievably agreeable statement. Right? And so then if you do, Black lives do matter, of course, however. So therefore, any discussion beyond that feels as if you're rejecting the statement right now. That takes an above average cognitive capacity to have that. But for most people, they say, oh, you must be an awful person if you disagree with the movement. Like, hold on. Just because it says this name doesn't necessarily mean, first of all, they even believe it because where are they in Chicago when the blood is flowing to

Rob McCoy (16:22)

the streets and the baby's being aborted?

Charlie Kirk (16:24)

Yes, I think it was 450,000.

Rob McCoy (16:26)

40% of all abortions are black.

Charlie Kirk (16:28)

400,000 a year of black children that are aborted in the womb. And so. But are you seeing pastors start to rise up? Because I have seen a crisis in the church.

Rob McCoy (16:38)

I see pastors being challenged by their congregan for the stands that they aren't taking and the ones, sadly, that they are taking and shouldn't. And I'm seeing a pushback from the congregants of that. And yes, I am seeing some pastors awaken to it. And interestingly enough, not pastors you'd expect to rise up. I mean, there's one guy in Los Angeles, it's going to come at a great cost for him, and he did it anyways, and it wasn't popular. And what he thought was going to happen was the exact reverse. The church exploded.

Charlie Kirk (17:09)

What I'm going to try and do and rob, you should send me the. The good guys here. I'm going to post them on our website. Let's do it. If people want to just support them financially or whatever. And I've been so intentional in whatever capacity I can, and this is a very important point that I've come to realize I have a really dear friend of mine in Chicago. And he was going to work and all this, and all of a sudden they said, well, in order for you to go to work, you have to work behind this glass desk and you have to wear a mask. And he said, I'm not coming into work anymore. I'm done. And he sent me a note. He's like, you inspired me to do this. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, I realize I have to do everything I can in my life and not just be in the stand saying, yay, courageous one. So every single person, we support him, every single person has to take an above average courageous stand, not just support the people that are taking courageous stands.

Rob McCoy (17:59)

Let me give you an example of that. So when I talked about this virus has a 99.7% survival rate with those who contract it. And we know those who are most susceptible to it, 65 and older with comorbidity, obesity, diabetes. We know our young people aren't adversely affected by it. They can get it, but it'd be like having the flu. It's not detrimental. And we know the stats, we have the empirical data, and yet we're still having these draconian laws.

Charlie Kirk (18:25)

And they want to do it again.

Rob McCoy (18:26)

And they want to do it again. And they're placing these draconian laws, and it's directly attached to the church. And everyone's starting to figure out that they keep moving the goalposts. It's not flattening the curve. It's not the overwhelming of the hospitals. It's not as. And now, hey, you know what? You need to shut up, put a mask on, and stay away from each other and close all businesses completely. And they're conditioning you to obey everything they say. Nowhere in the history of the United States has the government ever gone this far to eliminate civil liberties rights guaranteed in the Constitution for something that is not even remotely considered a deadly pandemic.

Charlie Kirk (19:02)

Well, and where's the pushback, though? I mean, we're trying to do what we can. Right? And we were not defiant of the

Rob McCoy (19:11)

measures, but we weren't defiant when we didn't have the data. We didn't know.

Charlie Kirk (19:15)

I want to be clear with what we did at Turning Point Action, we host for the president United States. And we were not supposed to do that, but we did it. We pioneered ahead, and boy, did we have a fun experience. My goodness, it was an amazing adventure. Thank you.

Elizabeth Kravchak (19:30)

Thank God for that event.

Charlie Kirk (19:31)

Yeah, I think it really played a role in.

Rob McCoy (19:33)

She was so. Elizabeth was so moved by you and especially Having her grandpa up there. She came all the way from California on her own dime to participate in that Turning Point.

Charlie Kirk (19:41)

Did you enjoy it?

Elizabeth Kravchak (19:42)

I absolutely enjoyed it. It is such a breath of fresh air to be around people who are like minded because it is so hard nowadays. The amount of hate that I get every day just for posting the truth is ridiculous. I've lost so much.

Charlie Kirk (19:56)

Tell us about that.

Elizabeth Kravchak (19:57)

I so I just felt deeply convicted that if I've been taught be bold and do not compromise, that means using the platform that is in my generation, which is social media. And I have to be vocal whether that means getting major pushback, you have to keep going and I have to do it. So I started posting a lot of videos, stuff from Turning Point. Anything that I saw that was the truth, I've been reposting it. And the pushback and the anger from people is ridiculous. There are people that I have grown up with, there have been people that I've been so close with, have shared really intimate, even spiritual Christian moments with, people that I've gone to class with, who know me, who have spent hours with me calling me a racist. Everything that you could think of, a white supremacist, calling me disgusting and everything you could. Everything that any conservative has been named, I've been named. And it's so brutal because you're trying. It's so hard to explain to someone who's so blinded that these are deep convictions and nothing's going to change my mind because I know this is the truth. I know that God wants me to be doing this and we are called to do this.

Charlie Kirk (21:00)

So can you dive for. How do you know? What do you feel when you know it? Because I know that feeling. There's a lot of young women especially, and the data shows that young women are much less likely to speak out even than young men. And that's not a generalization, that's just statistically the case, but it's applicable to both.

Elizabeth Kravchak (21:20)

Right.

Charlie Kirk (21:21)

What gives you that sense of boldness?

Elizabeth Kravchak (21:23)

Well, of course, seeing my grandpa is such a good example. But honestly, if you are growing in your relationship with the Lord and you are pursuing God, that voice comes like God is going to give you the confidence. And at the end of the day, it says in the Bible, like, the persecution you're going to face is nothing compared to the glory that you're going to see one day. And even when I feel so let down or feel so defeated, I know that we're going to see justice one day. Like we know what's going to happen in Revelation. So it's just knowing the truth in the Bible and then taking the experience of my family. I would be an idiot to be silent, truthfully, like, I would be disrespecting my family and God.

Charlie Kirk (22:00)

So. So it's very interesting what happens. Third generation of the families of socialist survivors. Actually, typically, at least I shouldn't say typically, they're surprisingly defecting. So, for example, if you go to Little Cuba or Little Havana in Miami, the third generation are actually embracing socialism. And so the imagery is that you have generations of grandparents that fled gunfire, were put in gulags and were able to escape, escape Marxism, to watch their grandkids go march in the streets for socialism, the very same ideas that almost killed them.

Elizabeth Kravchak (22:36)

Right.

Charlie Kirk (22:37)

And so you have. In your circle of friends, have you had any positive feedback at all?

Elizabeth Kravchak (22:44)

Only a few. Only a few. And some of them don't even understand it to the entire extent.

Charlie Kirk (22:49)

Yeah, yeah.

Elizabeth Kravchak (22:50)

It's a very, very small group. That's why it was such a joy to be at the rally.

Rob McCoy (22:54)

You're not alone, are you?

Elizabeth Kravchak (22:55)

Yeah, it's exactly. I'm not alone. But it really does feel like that, especially. I mean, I live in California, one of the most liberal states that you could possibly get.

Rob McCoy (23:02)

Charlie, tell everybody how many kids were there yesterday? I mean, and you had kids around that couldn't get in and they had to go through protesters to get there.

Charlie Kirk (23:09)

We were fire marshaled, fire marshalled, knocking anyone else in? 3400 seats. Totally filled up. It was a beautiful church.

Rob McCoy (23:16)

Yeah, beautiful.

Charlie Kirk (23:16)

Incredible. Perfect venue. 106 degrees outside where people had to wait 7, 8 hours to get in. The Secret Service. Not just like going to an event. No, you have to wait for a very long time. There were protesters, entrances blocked. The media was trying to fear monger about it.

Rob McCoy (23:32)

They were throwing projectiles at the. At the vehicle.

Charlie Kirk (23:34)

That's right. Yes. And so despite all that, students from all across the southwest, and mostly Arizona came to this incredible event. The media has conveniently ignored almost all of it.

Elizabeth Kravchak (23:44)

Definitely.

Charlie Kirk (23:45)

And the president, I think, gave one of his best speeches I've ever heard him give.

Rob McCoy (23:48)

Agreed.

Charlie Kirk (23:49)

It was terrific.

Rob McCoy (23:49)

And the testimonies of the turning point kids.

Charlie Kirk (23:51)

Oh, that was incredible.

Rob McCoy (23:52)

Phenomenal.

Charlie Kirk (23:53)

Reagan, Escude and they were. They were terrific. And it was things that, you know, the most interesting thing for me was I was listening to these remarkable students. Now, mind you, I didn't know what these students were going to say. That's way above my pay grade. Right. That's Tyler and the gang that figure all that out. And I trust them, of course. And I know some of their stories. I knew Jack Bishop at North Carolina State and all this. So they get up to go give their kind of testimony and their speech, and I'm listening to the language and the intensity, and I'm like, this is a different generation of conservatism than even 10 or 20 years ago. Do you agree?

Rob McCoy (24:25)

Oh, absolutely.

Charlie Kirk (24:25)

I mean, you saw that black girl from Minneapolis, Fearless, who's just like, Black Lives Matter is a fraud. Yep. And in front of the entire world and fearless.

Rob McCoy (24:36)

And didn't even stutter.

Charlie Kirk (24:38)

And I think to myself, where's the Republican Party? Why don't they have the courage that these kids have? And I tell you why. Because they haven't gone through the stuff that Elizabeth and everyone where they're losing their power.

Rob McCoy (24:47)

They're more concerned with power than they are with truth.

Charlie Kirk (24:49)

And I'm less worried about the numbers, how many are with us or against us at this moment. I'm worried about the boldness of our leaders, because then that will create followers in the future. Because what we see is you have so many people in the establishment Republican circles now that are so unbelievably weak, they don't fight for anything. And your grandfather writes in the book, there were plenty of people that helped the Soviet Union that were supposed to

Elizabeth Kravchak (25:14)

be the good guys that easily turned you in. I mean, if you don't mind making this connection. But we see that. I mean, I've heard of a few churches that have been taking pictures of contact tracing and they're sending it in. It's like that kind of silencing that you see, because they don't want opposition.

Charlie Kirk (25:30)

Yeah.

Rob McCoy (25:30)

And they're supporting that. That's a. That's a train. And we're. And you also start to see within the Christian community, with the pastoral community that they find more favor in the social media circles if they come out against you for being a maverick, don't just remain silent. Instead, they side with.

Charlie Kirk (25:53)

And I'm an interesting player in this game because I go after every single one of these guys with love and respect, but with truth. Right?

Elizabeth Kravchak (25:59)

Definitely.

Charlie Kirk (26:00)

And they don't not respond to me. So I go to these celebrity pastors on their profiles until they block me. And I just say, where do you get these statistics? This is wrong. Why are you saying falsehoods? And what's amazing, I want to say some of these pastors names so badly, but it's not my style. But you guys can figure it out yourself.

Rob McCoy (26:17)

I Already know.

Charlie Kirk (26:17)

And they block me. They're like, oh, we don't want this discussion. We don't want this. And they are doing very, very sinister work when they express things that are so pathologically untrue.

Rob McCoy (26:31)

I mean, exchanging the truth for lies. Sorry.

Elizabeth Kravchak (26:34)

No worries. Well, that video, systemic racism video that you debunked on your Instagram, you probably

Charlie Kirk (26:39)

saw it so many times, right?

Elizabeth Kravchak (26:40)

Well, believe it or not, we know churches that have used that as material for teaching children. It's been assigned as small groups, as small group discussion. And it's just indoctrination of that sort

Charlie Kirk (26:54)

of totally small groups.

Rob McCoy (26:56)

That's going to be your Bible study right there. This is your.

Charlie Kirk (26:59)

Not Ephesians, Galatians, Colossians.

Rob McCoy (27:00)

And nothing true in it. Just.

Charlie Kirk (27:02)

No, it's actually materially untrue and manipulated. And this is a very important. This takes a mature mind, not an immature mind, to be able to accept that there might be differences for certain outcomes of communities. There are certain more urban areas that have not done as well. But there might be other reasons that has happened outside of racism. And that's a very. That take like, hold on a second. You're trying to tell me that maybe it's the fatherlessness problem, maybe it's the abortion problem, maybe it is the fact we subsidize the worst parts of behavior and just blaming it all on racism. I actually think, first of all, it will never solve the problem, first of all, because then you try to find racism where it doesn't exist, like a rope in a NASCAR driver's garage. And I just want to take a victory lap. I have the text messages to prove it. And I wish I was so bold to tweet it out, but I was like, I sent to our team, I said, this is 100% a fraud.

Rob McCoy (28:03)

Yeah, it's a Jesse Smollett.

Charlie Kirk (28:04)

I said, there's no way at a NASCAR driver's garage someone comes and sets up a noose. I'm like, this is either planted or it's a misunderstanding. And they did this whole thing where they walk around and this whole pageantry and the media gets behind it. And, you know, people probably still, this day, probably still believe it because they already had their victory.

Rob McCoy (28:22)

And they don't retract it.

Charlie Kirk (28:23)

No, no retractions. None of this. And there was an article that was written like, the complicated story. There's nothing really complicated about this.

Rob McCoy (28:30)

It was to pull down the garage door.

Charlie Kirk (28:31)

And so they deploy 15 FBI agents to go look into this. And they can't Deploy one FBI agent to prevent George Washington from being toppled down in Portland, Oregon. And that's what they did in the Soviet Union. They tackled down the history beforehand.

Rob McCoy (28:43)

You got to take down the history so they don't have anyone to turn to.

Charlie Kirk (28:46)

Yeah.

Rob McCoy (28:48)

When you were describing that, you look at Joseph Bondarenko and how he would be 23 hours in a cell and he would consider it joy. And that takes me to Acts, Chapter five, where they couldn't stop the people from embracing what Peter and John were doing. So they and Gamaliel tried to say, look, just leave him alone. If it's of God, it'll flourish. You can't stop it. If it's of man, it'll go nowhere. And basically, it was indecision. I don't like what he did, and I thought it was a waste of time. It's like every other governor in a Democratic state that has allowed land to be taken for Chop and Chaz and all these. And tear down their monuments. They're just indecision. They're not making a decision. That's what Gamaliel did. But what's fascinating is they did decide to whip them. And actually the Greek word is skin them. They hit him with a cat of nine tails till they were bleeding, similar to Joseph Bondarenko. And they beat them and then they released them. And it said Peter and John went back and they rejoiced because they were counted worthy to suffer for the sake of Christ. And you know what? If you think suffering, pastor, is not having a social media following, you don't know suffering. You suffer when you stand for truth.

Charlie Kirk (29:58)

Yeah, well, and people, they email us and they can do this right now@freedom.charliekirk.com and I love some of these emails. I respond to every single one I can. I look at every single one of them. I go through them, and I respond as many as I can. People say, well, Charlie, what do I do? My pastor is this and this. I say, find another church.

Rob McCoy (30:12)

Find another church.

Charlie Kirk (30:13)

Leave. I mean, you're not going to change the past.

Rob McCoy (30:15)

Go with your feet.

Charlie Kirk (30:16)

I say, tell the pastor why you're leaving and leave and definitely stop tithing to that church.

Rob McCoy (30:21)

Absolutely.

Charlie Kirk (30:22)

There are ministries that are taking tough stands right now. And the interesting thing is they're actually flourishing, but they're worthy of your support more so than ever.

Rob McCoy (30:32)

You know, we've been supported by people across the country in the midst of

Charlie Kirk (30:35)

this, just helping you, just kindness.

Rob McCoy (30:37)

Yeah. They don't have a church to support because I ties to your church and

Charlie Kirk (30:42)

it's appreciated because there's no other church that fights.

Rob McCoy (30:46)

We got Jack Hibbs. No, Jack. We can name 20 churches.

Charlie Kirk (30:49)

Yeah, but I shouldn't say there's no other church, but there's very few.

Rob McCoy (30:51)

Tim Thompson.

Charlie Kirk (30:52)

And I will say, Rob, you went above and beyond some of these other guys. Like you went to a level during the pandemic that I thought was incredibly bold. You did.

Rob McCoy (31:01)

I appreciate the compliment.

Charlie Kirk (31:02)

And it's not a competition. I don't mean it's not like this guy did it better than other. I'm just saying that there was a very significant sacrifice and for people that haven't listened back. Rob, you resigned from your city council position that you worked your tail off to get elected. You worked months, if not years to get elected. That city council position loved the job and you loved it. And you. And you were mayor for one year because you had a rotating mayor position during the shooting, earned the trust of the community. You proved a pastor can become a city council member as a conservative, as a Christian, be bold. And you resigned because of the backlash you knew you were getting for opening your church.

Rob McCoy (31:35)

Right.

Charlie Kirk (31:36)

So I can't find many pastors that did that.

Rob McCoy (31:39)

Well, I would say.

Charlie Kirk (31:39)

And I know that you don't want to make it, too. You know, I appreciate all you said self congratulatory and I hear for what

Rob McCoy (31:46)

you're saying, and I'm blessed by it. Charlie, I would add, as I said earlier, love hopes all things. So based on what you described about me, I am savvy in the political circles because I've run four times for office. I've won three of my four campaigns. I was reelected. I was a city councilman for a tough area for almost eight years. So I understand politics and I also understand the pulpit. Most pastors don't understand politics. I do. Politicians don't understand the pulpit. So when I say love, hopes all things, I think with my whole heart that these pastors genuinely want to do the right thing. They don't know what it is because they're ignorant of what is required to defend a constitutional republic. Because whether they're seminary or the system of churches they participate in or how they've been educated, there has been this slow drip of socialism in a number of these Protestant portions of Christendom that have inculcated, indoctrinated our pastors so that they actually, I remember back when I was young, Tony Campolo was the big guy, and he, you know, he was a social justice guy. And social justice has crept into the church. We've got huge reformed movements that are participating in it. There's very few that see the slow drip of socialism coming into the church and they're not aware of it. And I do believe they love the Lord. I do believe that they are brave. I just believe they're completely ignorant and they have to wake up. They're being spoon fed.

Charlie Kirk (33:18)

Well. And just so people realize, any pastor that has associated the Black Lives Matter movement, the most outspoken Black Lives Matter advocate, who's actually a white guy, interesting enough, Shaun King now calls for statues of Jesus to be torn down. Statues of Jesus. So that's what the churches are supporting

Rob McCoy (33:33)

and systematically wants to destroy Western Western family.

Charlie Kirk (33:36)

Yeah. So if you just go to the website. Just go to the website. They're pro legalization of sex work. Yep. That's a nice start.

Rob McCoy (33:41)

Right?

Charlie Kirk (33:41)

Great Christian value.

Rob McCoy (33:42)

Oh yeah. Let's sex trade is.

Charlie Kirk (33:44)

Let's just pro abortion.

Rob McCoy (33:45)

Pro abortion. And the money that they advocate their congregants sending to black lives goes to Act Blue. Yeah. Good luck finding out even how it gets there and how they use their money.

Charlie Kirk (33:53)

So it's a Democrat money laundering.

Rob McCoy (33:55)

Money laundering.

Charlie Kirk (33:56)

Allegedly for media matters out there that wants to sue me. Allegedly. But sort of. Point is this. So you give money to blacklivesmatter.com I encourage everyone to go do this. You know what you can't find there? What kind of organization are they? It doesn't say LLC.

Rob McCoy (34:11)

No.

Charlie Kirk (34:11)

Doesn't say 501C3. Doesn't say 501C4. Doesn't say 527. Doesn't say S Corp. C Corp. Nothing. Just says BlackLivesMatter.com doesn't even say all rights reserved. It's not even copyright. It's not. So you try to look through affiliation documents on the state websites. It's nowhere.

Rob McCoy (34:25)

So how does an organization like that exist?

Charlie Kirk (34:28)

Well, it must be affiliated somewhere, either foreign or domestic. On an island somewhere. I mean, so the point is this. So then the way they get around it is you give money. So you go to the donation page. You don't actually give them the money. You go to ActBlue. Now ActBlue is commonly used to fund Democrat campaigns, thus the blue. Right. And they have a Republican competitor win red. But it's not that simple. So you're giving it to ActBlue and they're supposed to give it to Black Lives Matter. But then you go to ActBlue's 990 disclosure form. A world of which I know really well.

Rob McCoy (34:55)

Yeah.

Charlie Kirk (34:56)

Because this is the world I live in with nonprofit. And you look through the disbursements, and they don't have any Black Lives Matter disclosure of where the money's going. And that's interesting. They're supposed to list it and you can. I went through as many documents I could get, and I had other people that know that world do the same. Can't find it, which is bizarre. And then you go through their disclosures on Act Blue, and they say, well, we exist to raise money for Democrat candidates. How that's compatible with a C3 mission of ACT Blue, I don't understand how that's even close to being okay. However, here's what gets interesting. When you give money to ActBlue, you don't know where it's going. They say it's going to Black Lives Matter. No way to actually tell, but let's pretend that it is. Do you know what ActBlue actually does? They'll take your data. Rob McCoy, you give $100 to Black Lives Matter because you're some suburbanite that feels guilty because your pastor told you to. And you live in Dana Point or Laguna Niguel. Right. Hundred bucks within one week. ActBlue will then take all your information and give it to the Joe Biden campaign. And they'll say, go hit them up for money. So then you'll get a text message from Joe Biden saying, hey, I'm advocating for racial justice. Will you chip in $10? Now they have transferred actually something that's more valuable than your hundred dollars.

Rob McCoy (36:01)

The data.

Charlie Kirk (36:02)

All your data.

Rob McCoy (36:02)

Yep.

Charlie Kirk (36:03)

And that's what happens when you give money to blacklivesmatter.com and as a shepherd

Rob McCoy (36:06)

over your congregation, if you have subjected your sheep to that, you need to wake up.

Charlie Kirk (36:10)

No.

Rob McCoy (36:11)

You are complicit, by the way.

Charlie Kirk (36:12)

That's something you should atone for. Yeah, that's something you should apologize. That's something you should say. I sinned. Because that's just not an individual sin, but that's institutional sin.

Rob McCoy (36:23)

That's going to cost them social media followers, but that will. Let me help.

Charlie Kirk (36:28)

Is Peter going to ask? Coming. You have those for you.

Rob McCoy (36:30)

Hang on, let me finish. And that will be the test. That will be the test on whether love hopes all things. Once you become cognizant of the fact, as opposed to ignorant. Now you need to make a choice. And that choice is going to cost you something. Are you going to do the right thing? Are you still going to remain in your ignorance even though you've been educated today? And if a congregant has given you this podcast and ask you to listen to it and you've avoided it. You're ignorant, out of choice. Wake up.

Charlie Kirk (36:58)

Anyone listening to this that goes to a church and you're like, well, I don't know if I want to leave my church. The least you can do, send them the link to this podcast to your pastor and say, listen carefully. You have a pastor, you have a young Christian who's seeing and hearing this and you have someone who actually knows what's happening out there. And every prediction I've made with this stuff has unfortunately come true. You can go back weeks ago when I said this is going to result in rioting, looting, unnecessary racial division, pastors supporting. And it's all happened now I'm telling you right now, anyone that steers their congregation in support of this and there are churches here in Phoenix, Arizona that they actually believe in good Bible based teaching that we're marching in the streets with Black Lives Matter activists. There are people, major churches in Orange County. I so badly want to say the church name, but it's just not Stop

Rob McCoy (37:46)

Charlie, just keep moving.

Charlie Kirk (37:47)

I know, but it's tempting, right? But that our big churches that no

Rob McCoy (37:50)

temptation will seize you, but that was just common to man. When God will give you a way out, just pray, work it out.

Charlie Kirk (37:56)

That people think are great Bible believing churches where their pastors are marching with Black Lives Matter and they did fundraisers for them. So these churches are funding pro sex work, pro abortion, pro. Planned Parenthood, pro. Legalization, pro. Abolished police, pro. And on their website, it's in their mission statement, we seek to disrupt and destroy the western prescribed nuclear family.

Rob McCoy (38:18)

Yep. And also they also want to remove the idea of a heterosexual. Just the breakdown of how we identify for sex.

Charlie Kirk (38:27)

That's right. Yes.

Rob McCoy (38:28)

Heteronormative. Or however you.

Charlie Kirk (38:30)

So in closing, Elizabeth, I want to ask you one or two questions.

Rob McCoy (38:33)

Thanks for letting us go off on a tangent.

Elizabeth Kravchak (38:35)

Of course. I 100% support you.

Charlie Kirk (38:37)

You're very well spoken, by the way. Thank so told you I did.

Elizabeth Kravchak (38:40)

Right.

Charlie Kirk (38:42)

You haven't let me down yet, Rob. I'm waiting for it.

Rob McCoy (38:45)

Neither of you.

Charlie Kirk (38:46)

So you're 20 years old.

Elizabeth Kravchak (38:48)

Yes.

Charlie Kirk (38:49)

So will this be the first presidential election you're voting in?

Elizabeth Kravchak (38:52)

No or yes? Not my first time voting, but yes,

Charlie Kirk (38:55)

my first time voting. First presidential election. Okay.

Rob McCoy (38:56)

Yes.

Charlie Kirk (38:57)

So I guess I know who you're voting for. Right?

Elizabeth Kravchak (38:59)

100%. Donald Trump has my vote.

Charlie Kirk (39:01)

Awesome.

Elizabeth Kravchak (39:02)

No questions asked.

Charlie Kirk (39:03)

So you have lots of friends.

Elizabeth Kravchak (39:04)

Yes.

Charlie Kirk (39:05)

That are advocating politically and all this.

Elizabeth Kravchak (39:09)

Right.

Charlie Kirk (39:09)

Do you see any Biden advocacy?

Elizabeth Kravchak (39:13)

A ton, everywhere.

Charlie Kirk (39:14)

That's it's in favor of Joe Biden 100%.

Elizabeth Kravchak (39:18)

And actually, the interesting thing is, though, there were a lot. They were first Bernie Sanders supporters. And when I asked them, you know, once they start going back and forth with me, I go, if you don't mind me asking, who are you going to vote for? And they always give me the answer, Well, I thought that Bernie Sanders was our hope for the country, but. And they go on, on a tangent. However, they don't want to specifically say they're voting for Joe Biden, but who else are they going to vote for? I don't think they're voting for Donald Trump.

Charlie Kirk (39:41)

Right. Yes. I guess the question is, will they show up with enthusiasm for Biden? I'm not yet convinced of that.

Elizabeth Kravchak (39:48)

I am not convinced of that either, but I think they're going to do it.

Charlie Kirk (39:51)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Elizabeth Kravchak (39:53)

But the one hope is that I've had a lot of awesome messages saying, thank you so much for sharing. It's such a joy to see refreshing, positive truth. Truthful posts.

Charlie Kirk (40:03)

Yes.

Elizabeth Kravchak (40:03)

And there are a lot of secret Trump supporters in my generation, and I think that's why the rally was such a joy and such a success, because my generation needs to see their people out there.

Charlie Kirk (40:14)

So. So you've stood for truth and it cost you something. 100%, Rob, you've done the same. If you're listening to this, my, my measure of courage, people say, well, Charlie, how do you define courage? Standing for truth and being able to point to something that you lost in the pursuit of that quest. Now, that's not saying you should go out of your way to try to lose something, but it's actually inevitable, and it's guaranteed you're going to lose something. In fact, if you're not losing something, if you're not getting backlash, they actually doubt how hard you're fighting for it.

Rob McCoy (40:43)

If we're not willing to lose everything to retain liberty, Amen, then we never had anything to begin with.

Charlie Kirk (40:49)

Amen. And I'm inspired by your grandfather.

Elizabeth Kravchak (40:51)

Thank you.

Charlie Kirk (40:52)

So you're two generations removed, Right? Still advocating for that. He must be very proud.

Elizabeth Kravchak (40:56)

He's. He's proud, but he's also very proud of you, Charlie. He's exactly of him. Well, you have the same spirit.

Charlie Kirk (41:02)

You know, if. And again, if they lock me up because of what I'm saying, then so be it. But that's the direction I think a lot of Western society is going. But that's, you know, we're gonna keep advocating for it. And people say, well, it's never gonna happen here. I highly doubt that.

Elizabeth Kravchak (41:15)

Yeah, you know, it's here and it's coming and we need to fight against it.

Charlie Kirk (41:19)

Amen. Well, God bless you guys. Rob, what's your Instagram again?

Rob McCoy (41:23)

Robmcoynstagram.

Charlie Kirk (41:26)

Let's, let's. Yeah, I finally got it. Yeah. And then do you have a social media you wanna plug?

Elizabeth Kravchak (41:30)

Yes, I do. It's at. I can spell it. It's E, L, I Z A underscore K R A V. Awesome.

Charlie Kirk (41:36)

And then Godspeak.com Godspeak.com check out the live streams. God bless you guys.

Rob McCoy (41:40)

Thanks, Charlie.

Charlie Kirk (41:40)

Bless you. Thank you.

Elizabeth Kravchak (41:41)

Thanks, Charlie.

Charlie Kirk (41:44)

And just a reminder, this episode is brought to you advertiser free by you going to charliekirk.com support. Chip in some money if you can. $5, $10, $50, $100. Whatever you can do. Become a supporter of the Charlie kirk show@charliekirk.com support. Thanks for listening everybody. And again, go to charliekirk.com support to help support our show. Get involved with Turning Point USA. Go to tpusa.com, tpusa.com, chip in some money if you can. Email us freedomarliekirk.com and if you subscribe to the show, give us a five star review. Screenshot at emails@freedomcharliekirk.com you are in the running to win a signed copy of the Maga doctrine. God bless you guys. Talk to you soon.