The Conservative Case for Censorship—A Provocative Conversation with Michael Knowles
The Charlie Kirk Show – July 3, 2021
Guest: Michael Knowles
Host: Charlie Kirk
Episode Overview
Charlie Kirk sits down with Michael Knowles, author of Speechless: Controlling Words, Controlling Minds, for a lively and provocative discussion on the limits and purpose of free speech in America. The central question: Should conservatives embrace censorship to defend traditional values and counter the cultural dominance of the left? Knowles offers a bold thesis—that conservatives must recover a tradition of “just and prudent censorship”—arguing this is not a betrayal of American values, but a necessary restoration. The conversation ranges from philosophical underpinnings of liberty and standards, to practical examples like Drag Queen Story Hour, cancel culture, and how to fight back culturally and politically.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
What Happened to the Culture War?
[03:12]
- Michael Knowles argues that conservatives have "lost everything" in the culture war, failing to conserve even basic social norms.
- Quote: “We have not even conserved the ladies bathroom.”—Michael Knowles [03:12]
- Charlie squares small conservative victories (firearm laws, pro-life momentum) against broader cultural losses.
Gramsci & The War of Position
[05:08]
- Knowles traces the roots of the left’s cultural dominance to thinkers like Antonio Gramsci, who advocated a "war of position"—occupying influential institutions and reshaping common sense.
- Quote: “Gramsci said that a revolution cannot succeed if the radicals do not have some hold on the common sense... we need to have a war of position where you take influential places in the established institutions and then you exercise that power.”—Michael Knowles [05:08]
- School board battles and pro-life victories are held up as examples of moral arguments that resonate more than utilitarian ones.
Political Power: To Use or Not to Use?
[08:28]
- Knowles insists conservatives should actively use political power rather than view it as illegitimate.
- Quote: “It is somehow illegitimate or unjust to use the political power that the people give us... There’s nothing wrong with that. That’s what politics is.”—Michael Knowles [08:28]
- Identifies a “trap” where both capitulation and free-speech absolutism end up advancing the left’s agenda by eroding standards.
Should Conservatives Embrace Censorship?
[10:55]
- Knowles openly calls for “just and prudent censorship” as part of the American tradition, noting examples of past censorship (obscenity laws, anti-communist blacklists).
- Quote: “In order to save free speech, conservatives must embrace just and prudent censorship. This is not a break from the American free speech tradition. This is actually a recovery…”—Michael Knowles [11:37]
- He contrasts previous “canceling of communists” in the 1950s with today’s canceling of anti-communists.
Rebuttal of the “Marketplace of Ideas”
[17:27]
- Knowles questions the sufficiency of the open marketplace of ideas, arguing all institutions (including universities) inherently set boundaries.
- Quote: “Marketplaces are finite entities, and not every institution is a marketplace of ideas… Education and indoctrination mean the same thing.”—Michael Knowles [17:27]
- Uses the teaching of the Bible versus mandatory leftist texts as an example of how “freedom of ideas” is selectively applied.
Standards, Liberty, and Legislating Morality
[23:51]
- Asserts that every law legislates morality; the idea that you can’t legislate morality is “one of the stupidest lines in our entire discourse.”
- Quote: “All laws, whether you are talking about abortion or the death penalty or whether you’re talking about parking tickets, all laws are referring to the moral law.”—Michael Knowles [24:03]
- Argues conservatives are afraid to use political power for fear it will be turned against them, but warns that tyranny already exists (“woke” corporations), and not acting is itself a decision.
From Ordered Liberty to Licentiousness
[31:19]
- Distinguishes between true liberty—“the right to do what you ought”—and licentiousness, “the freedom of the heroin addict.”
- Quote: “True liberty is the right to do what you ought to do.”—Michael Knowles [31:19]
- Critiques shifts in the conservative movement toward embracing libertarian “self-sovereignty” (do whatever you want as long as it doesn’t harm others) as incoherent and destructive.
Defending the Good: Prudence, Tradition, and Boundaries
[39:29]
- Knowles advances prudence (practical judgment) as the guide for determining what is good, as per Aristotle and Burke.
- Quote: “The way that we can know some idea of the Good and the true and the beautiful in politics is through prudence.”—Michael Knowles [40:09]
- Urges conservatives to rediscover foundational thinkers and moral boundaries, warning against movements with no real standards.
Hope and the Path Forward
[42:06]
- Knowles expresses hope—rooted both in faith and in Americans’ latent common sense—that traditional values can be defended if courage is summoned.
- Quote: “I have real hope… in the American people. Our continued grasp, to some degree, on common sense and our ability to stop these leftists and chase them out of town on a rail if we can only summon the courage to do it.”—Michael Knowles [42:06]
Memorable Quotes & Exchanges
-
On Losing Ground:
“We have not even conserved the ladies bathroom.”—Michael Knowles [03:12] -
On Political Power:
“There’s nothing wrong with… using the political power that the people give us.”—Michael Knowles [08:28] -
On Censorship:
“In order to save free speech, conservatives must embrace just and prudent censorship.”—Michael Knowles [11:37] -
On Liberty:
“True liberty is the right to do what you ought to do.”—Michael Knowles [31:19] -
On Laws and Morality:
“All laws… are referring to the moral law.”—Michael Knowles [24:03] -
On Courage:
“Courage is a virtue, but it is the prerequisite for all of the other virtues.”—Michael Knowles [25:30] -
On Hope:
“I have real hope… in the American people. Our continued grasp, to some degree, on common sense and our ability to stop these leftists and chase them out of town on a rail if we can only summon the courage to do it.”—Michael Knowles [42:06]
Notable and Thought-Provoking Moments
-
Nuanced View on Censorship:
Knowles acknowledges this position is provocative, even to conservatives, and intentionally moves the Overton Window.- “You’re also being intentionally provocative, which is delicious and awesome. And actually the way you move the Overton window.”—Charlie Kirk [25:51]
-
Classical Liberalism Revisited:
Discusses John Locke and Milton as original “liberal” thinkers who nevertheless endorsed forms of censorship for the sake of the social order.- “If I’m illiberal, I am still far more liberal than the father of liberalism.”—Michael Knowles [17:27]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- [03:12] – Are conservatives winning or losing the culture war?
- [05:08] – Antonio Gramsci and the war for common sense
- [08:28] – Should conservatives use political power?
- [10:55] – The case for prudent censorship and the American tradition
- [17:27] – Flaws of the “marketplace of ideas” analogy
- [23:51] – All laws legislate morality: reclaiming the moral dimension
- [29:39] – How to use political power without becoming tyrannical
- [31:19] – Liberty vs licentiousness; freedom as the right to do what you ought
- [39:29] – How do we know the good? Prudence and the American tradition
- [42:06] – Optimism, pessimism, and hope for American cultural renewal
Conclusion
This episode offers a robust, challenging re-evaluation of one of conservatism’s most sacred cows—free speech—and the boundaries of liberty. Michael Knowles provocatively argues that standards, prudence, and moral governance are not only compatible with the American tradition but necessary for its survival. Charlie Kirk pushes back in friendly fashion, asking the hard questions skeptical conservatives are likely to have.
Listeners are left with fresh intellectual ammunition for ongoing debates about culture, speech, virtue, and what it means to govern ourselves.