The Epstein Finale?

Summary

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The Charlie Kirk Show

Episode: "The Epstein Finale?"

Date: December 23, 2025
Host: Guest host Andrew Colvett (for Charlie Kirk)
Guests: Jack Posobiec, Sean Davis, Blake Neff, Stephen Moore (later segments), Batya Ungar Sargon (later segments)

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Overview of Main Themes

This special pre-Christmas episode centers on a deep dive into the latest Jeffrey Epstein file releases by the Department of Justice (DOJ), public and political reactions to the revelations, and broader issues of coalition-building, movement infighting, and foreign policy on the American right. The episode is marked by a candid, sometimes irreverent, and always unapologetically conservative tone, with multiple contributors weighing in on topics ranging from evidence in the Epstein case to the cultural unity and disagreements within conservative movements.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Latest Epstein Files Release

• Background: Recent bipartisan legislation has led to the release of additional files on Jeffrey Epstein and his network by the DOJ ([03:55]).
• Nature of Files: Files include investigative material, newly released photographs, emails, and evidence with significant redactions for victim privacy ([04:27]).
• New Revelations:
  • Numerous photos of Bill Clinton with Epstein, including at social events and on planes.
  • No new damning evidence uncovered against Donald Trump, despite ongoing speculation ([05:09], [07:44]).
  • Discovery of an Austrian fake passport, references to international business in West Africa and Saudi Arabia ([06:48]).
  • A disturbing letter reportedly from Epstein to convicted criminal Larry Nassar, expressing “our love and caring for young ladies” and a cryptic final message before Epstein’s death ([09:36]).
• DOJ Handling and Redactions: The ongoing legal push-pull over redacting information from the files, with some involved parties requesting further redaction ([04:26]).
• Political Reaction:
  • Donald Trump dislikes the public spectacle of naming “innocent” people connected with Epstein via photographs, warning about tarring by association ([07:50]).
  • Joe Scarborough and others question Trump’s supposed opposition to file releases if nothing incriminating is present ([11:28]).
• Discussion of Evidence and Skepticism:
  • Many photos released lack context—being merely images of prominent people with Epstein, without clear evidence of wrongdoing ([12:09]).
  • Blake Neff urges skepticism regarding guilt by association, warning of defamation and the importance of court evidence ([12:09]).

Notable Quote

"There’s been this narrative that, like, okay, Epstein maybe wasn’t involved in, like, really bad stuff, and maybe it’s all just overblown. No, no, it’s actually disgusting."
—Jack Posobiec [04:27]

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2. Broader Connotations and Speculation Around Epstein

• Was Epstein an Intelligence Asset?
  • Discussion of theories involving CIA, Mossad, connections to Adnan Khashoggi, and Epstein’s alleged intelligence ties ([14:31]).
  • Jack Posobiec: "It’s really interesting… the networks he was in. Certainly there are questions on to who was running who. Was he an asset? Was he an operative?" ([14:31])
• On Judicial Process:
  • Emphasis on the need for concrete evidence, government investigation, and making information available for victims’ lawsuits ([15:39]).

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3. Movement Dynamics: Unity, Division, and Event Reactions

• AmFest Recap:

  • The recent Turning Point USA AmericaFest is discussed as a huge and somewhat contentious gathering.
  • The “ecumenical” or big-tent approach of TPUSA is praised for fostering coalition-building, even among disagreement ([19:11], [20:24]).
  • The desire from some — especially online voices — for purity tests or public disavowals is raised and debated.

• Debates about Cancellation and Disavowal:

  • Ben Shapiro’s post-speech comments sparked debate within and about the movement ([21:10]).
  • Panelists agree that while there are passionate divides, most attendees are more interested in coalition than in infighting ([23:00]).
  • Online outrage is seen as exaggerated compared to the on-the-ground reality ([24:12]).

• J.D. Vance’s Approach:

  • Emphasizes inclusivity: "He says make America great again because every American is invited. We don't care if you're white or Black, rich or poor, young or old," and denounces racism explicitly ([26:50], [27:13]).

Memorable Exchange

"My personal philosophy… if you are putting points on the board… bringing people to the table… I'm good with you."
—Sean Davis [24:12]

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4. Online vs. Real-World Political Dynamics

• Online Outrage vs. Event Reception:
  • Acknowledgement that X (Twitter) can amplify conflict that feels alien to most real-world participants ([24:12], [26:35]).
• Balance in Coalition:
  • Real movement diversity reflected in member polls: "We did a show of hands…who likes Ben’s approach? Half the hands went up…Who likes Tucker’s approach? About half…the crowd was a mixed reception." ([23:00])

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5. Foreign Policy as a Proxy Battle

• Why the Right Fights About Foreign Policy:
  • Observations that many movement disputes are really about underlying foreign-policy alignments, especially on Ukraine and Middle East interventions ([28:18], [33:26]).
  • Sean Davis attributes these fights to both financial interests (“military-industrial complex”) and the self-righteous moralizing among elites ([33:59]).

Notable Quote

"There is a very large…enjoyment of patting themselves on the back for being compassionate…willing to spend other people’s lives and money…It’s the COVID nannying but taken to a foreign policy extent."
—Sean Davis [33:59]

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6. Lighter Moments: Christmas Movie Debates and Panel Banter

• **Panelists debate favorite Christmas movies and whether Die Hard qualifies ([30:05]–[33:18])]
  • Sean Davis: "No, Die Hard is not a Christmas movie. What are they doing having a work party on Christmas Eve? That's crazy."
  • Blake Neff: "It came out in the summer. It’s just a movie set during Christmas."
  • Andrew Colvett: "Yes, Die Hard is a Christmas movie. It lives eternally…"
• Mentions of holiday plans, ugly Christmas sweaters, hot cocoa, and generational differences in irony ([31:14], [32:23], [33:18])

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7. Reflections on Political Leadership and Power

• Why Leaders Fixate on Foreign Affairs:

  • Both Sean and Blake suggest self-importance, the allure of power, and a desire to manipulate "big moving parts" as motivations ([33:59], [36:00]).

• Andrew Colvett:

  • Closes on a theological note: "We remember that Jesus came to earth. He’s God and we are not Him. So that’s our message to all the godlike-complex folks." ([36:25])

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Intro & Banter: [01:09–02:48]
• Epstein File Breakdown (with Jack Posobiec): [03:55–09:36]
• Trump’s Reaction to Epstein Evidence: [07:50–08:50]
• On Court Evidence, Skepticism, and Conspiracies: [12:09–16:06]
• AmFest & Coalition Discussion: [18:24–28:18]
• JD Vance’s Speech & Inclusion: [26:35–28:18]
• Christmas Movie Debate & Banter: [30:05–33:18]
• Foreign Policy as Proxy and Movement Dynamics: [33:26–36:25]

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Key Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jack Posobiec, on the gruesome nature of the files:
  "These photos that are released are absolutely disgusting. They make me sick to my stomach." [04:27]

• On Trump and Epstein:
  "Not only did they still not find Trump…Trump was also flying on the plane with his family…like, not a situation where we're hopefully anything on tour." —Jack Posobiec [06:43]

• Sean Davis, on movement unity:
  "If you're putting points on the board…I'm good with you…There's a lot that I can tolerate of disagreement." [24:12]

• On social media vs reality:
  "X isn't real life…but it's important to be out there talking to normal people…as much as it may pain people like us to hear, we are political obsessives; most people are not like us." —Sean Davis [24:12–26:35]

• On foreign policy:
  "People do get fixated on these big abstract things...They liked the idea, oh, I’m moving these big armies. It’d be so cool if I was Alexander the Great..." —Blake Neff [35:37]

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Tone and Approach

The episode is marked by its authentic, grassroots, “no-holds-barred” approach. Conversation moves nimbly between heavy political analysis and jovial cultural commentary, reflecting the cultural-political blend central to The Charlie Kirk Show.

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For those who missed it:
This episode offers both an up-to-the-minute update on the state and significance of the Epstein investigation, as well as an inside look at the personalities and philosophies shaping today's conservative movement, with space made for both serious inquiry and light-hearted seasonal banter.

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro American student organization in the country, fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You gotta stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a Turning Point USA College chapter. Go start a Turning Point USA High School chapter. Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade. Most important decision I ever made in my life. And I encourage you to do the same. Here I am, Lord. Use me. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. The Charlie Kirk show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold. But the leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends, and viewers.

[Andrew Colvett]

All right. Welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show. It's the last show before Christmas. I'm your host for today, Andrew Colvett, joined by Blake Neff, who's in the studio.

[Blake Neff]

What are you wearing, Andrew?

[Andrew Colvett]

Oh, I'm wearing. The dude abides. Yes. Yes. Jack, you got a sweater on. Blake, you do not have a sweater on because I forgot to tell you that I was wearing my ugly Christmas sweater today.

[Blake Neff]

I don't think I even own a sweater. I live in Phoenix.

[Jack Bosobic]

Blake, you literally didn't get the Christmas sweater memo. I don't understand what's going on here.

[Andrew Colvett]

No, no. This is gonna pick at a. At a larger scab about Andrew's terrible communication internally. So I, you know, listen, it was just. It was just a vibe that I felt this morning. You know, my kids were still in their jammies, their Christmas jammies as they go. So, Andrew, are you.

[Jack Bosobic]

Are you wearing pajamas bottoms right now? Don't tell us.

[Andrew Colvett]

No, no, I'm wearing jeans. I'm wearing jeans, thankfully. Although Charlie.

[Jack Bosobic]

Two lies and a truth.

[Andrew Colvett]

Charlie used to All Blake can attest. Charlie used to always come into the studio with the. He would have, you know, business on the top and then shorts on the bottom. Yeah.

[Jack Bosobic]

Basketball shorts.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah.

[Blake Neff]

100% true.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah. And the long socks, because they were good for circulation. For talking.

[Sean Davis]

Yeah.

[Jack Bosobic]

For the circulation. Yeah. They were. The vascular.

[Andrew Colvett]

Vascular socks. That's right.

[Blake Neff]

I wore those socks on because he advertises so much. I wore them, I think when I had to fly to Korea. It was like a 15 hour flight, and I Wore them. And I think I was about nine hours in and I just said, I can't take this anymore. And I rolled.

[Andrew Colvett]

That's good for airplanes, though. No, it is. It's good for airplanes. Listen, so we've got a jam packed show. We figured let's just throw the kitchen sink at it today. And we're gonna have a lot of guests. So we're starting off with Jack Bosobic, host of Human Events Daily. We're gonna talk Epstein, because with all the craziness around Amfest and just kind of processing Amfest and our straw poll, we have not. I mean, personally, I have not had a chance to really dive in. So Jack's gonna be our expert on that and kind of give us the updates on that. I saw that there's a third, third tranche of files from the DOJ following the passage of that law. Then we're gonna have Sean Davis, he's gonna talk about the family business that was on full display at Amfest. And then we've got Stephen Moore, who's gonna talk about economics and the great GDP news that came out this morning. And then we're gonna finish with Batya Ungar Sargon, she's now a News Nation anchor. And I'm gonna try and convince her that J.D. vance is the man and she's got her skepticism. So we're gonna talk through that. So, Jackson, without further ado, just 30,000 foot view for us. What's going on with Epstein? How did we get here? What have we learned?

[Jack Bosobic]

Okay, so this is the response to that legislation that was passed by the House a while back. It was a bipartisan piece of legislation regarding the Epstein files, which some of us, like myself, have been calling for since day one of President Trump returning to the White House. And what we've got now are actual files coming out now. What we have today, this is. So there were files released during Amfest because of course, it couldn't be a turning point event without Epstein files getting released separately.

[Sean Davis]

And.

[Jack Bosobic]

And then now we've got more Epstein files that are being released as part of this tranche. And I believe that one of the things that's going on right now is that a lot of these files that are coming out, these are investigative files, these are things that came up as evidence. And there are a lot of redactions in these, some of which we're told are redactions for victims on personal information that people don't want out, for those who aren't being accused of a crime or people who are Like I said, victims of Epstein and of his network and potentially even underage, depending on who it is. Obviously, we can't tell in many of these cases, but there are so many more files that are coming out. And also that people are saying, there have been back and forths of the doj. They said, wait a minute, you put some stuff out, then you put out this stuff and redacted. So there are people even respond. This is a very live situation where people are responding to the DOJ release legally and saying, hey, I want that redacted. Hey, I want that redacted. So that being said, what we do actually have. I'm just going to say it. These photos that are released are absolutely disgusting. They make me sick to my stomach looking at some of these. I talked about this on, on Newsmax last night, that when there were people, there have been a lot of people. So there's been this narrative that, like, okay, Epstein maybe wasn't involved in, like, really bad stuff, and maybe it's all just overblown. No, no, it's actually disgusting. And there's a lot of photos. It just has to be said truthfully. There are a lot of photos of him with Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton in a hot tub, him and Bill Clinton on planes, him and Bill Clinton wearing, you know, matching. Matching shirts of some kind at like, some kind of party. So, again, what you're not finding are images of Donald Trump in a hot tub. And so the Democrats are sitting there going like, wait, what's, you know, what's. What's happening? Because we were told Trump would be the one in there. And yes, there were some time. There were some instances where they said, okay, we found some records of Trump flying on the plane. But what was interesting is, of course, not only did they still not find Trump, and just be truthful, they did not find Trump flying to the island, but Trump was also flying on the plane with his family. So, like, with his wife and children. So again, like, not a situation where we're hopefully anything on tour.

[Andrew Colvett]

Those were. Those were mostly in the 90s, right, Jack? So. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jack Bosobic]

This is way, way, way. Like we're talking 30, 30, 40 years ago in some instances. So where it's like just. Or 30 years ago. So instances where long before any of these. Any of his crimes had come to life, long before. I mean, the rest of the story, we've been over it so many times where he was evicted from Mar A Lago for his behavior, and then Trump actually goes to the lawyers of the victims to say, how can I help you to put this guy away? Cuz he's a bad guy. And what we're seeing again over and over are pictures of him of Epstein as well as some emails with Prince, or I should say former Prince Andrew. A fake passport is something that just came out which is something that's really interesting. I mean this is happening all live. It was an Austrian passport. Talked about businesses in West Africa and Saudi Arabia. I mean really just a lot of, just a lot of random things that are coming out like crazy right now.

[Andrew Colvett]

Let's go ahead and get. President Trump was asked about this. Let's play 191.

[Joe Scarborough]

I know there are a lot of people that are angry about all of the pictures of other people, you know, but I think it's terrible. Look, no, I don't like the pictures of Bill Clinton being shown. I don't like the pictures of other people being shown. I think it's a terrible thing. I think Bill Clinton is a big boy, he can handle it. But you probably have pictures being exposed of other people that innocently met Jeffrey Epstein years ago, many years ago and they're, you know, highly respected bankers and lawyers and others and they'll end up because of guys like Massie, who's a real low life. What this whole thing is with Epstein is a way of trying to deflect from the tremendous success that the Republican Party has.

[Andrew Colvett]

You know, this feels pretty consistent with Trump's original kind of objection to this, you know, and we have to remember that if they had something on Trump it would have been weaponized by the Biden administration, you know, 10 times over. So this does actually turn that around. Yeah, go ahead.

[Blake Neff]

If they have something on Clinton, I feel like the Trump admin would probably wanna, he has a big, pretty big beef with the Clintons.

[Andrew Colvett]

Well actually Trump, Trump is saying, listen, I've always gotten along with Bill. He's been good to me, I've been good to him. I actually don't kind of getting inside the psyche of President Trump. I actually don't think he has like a bone to pick with Bill Clinton per se, maybe Hillary more so. But yeah, I think Trump, Trump knows a lot of these guys, kind of knows the situation that some of the innocent ones are put in. It just feels like he's being consistent. But you know, the admin was pressured, you know, he takes a shot at Thomas Massie right there to be more transparent. So he's doing, he's doing what he's got to do politically. But I think he, he actually seems to be fairly disgusted with the fact.

[Jack Bosobic]

That one I should mention, though. Well, one thing I should mention is there is a very strange letter to Larry Nassar. Larry Nassar, who we know also went to prison and is in prison for these same type of crimes that Epstein wrote a letter to him saying, as you know, by now, I have taken the short route home. Good luck. We shared one thing, our love and caring for young ladies and the hope they'd reach their full potential. And then he also, he makes a lewd reference to Trump. And then he writes, life is unfair.

[Andrew Colvett]

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[Charlie Kirk]

Balance in nature.com use discount code Charlie.

[Andrew Colvett]

New and existing customers can lock in Whole health system at $79.99 per order for life. Pretty good deal. Check it out now. Balanceofnature.com Blake Neff is threatening to upset everybody in the audience. I don't know if we're ready for that yet, but why don't we just start here? Let's go 199. This is Joe Scarborough on his reaction to the Epstein files.

[Joe Scarborough]

One of the great mysteries to me and a lot of other people is we've had reporting for some time, Donald Trump is not on Epstein's list. There's nothing in there that's really damning about Donald Trump. And as Susie Wilde says, not damning about Donald Trump according to the chiefs or Bill Clinton. So one of the great mysteries all along in this not been like, what's Donald Trump hiding? What did he do? Da da da da, say why if he's not in these files, which all the Reporting says he's not. Why is he so obsessed on blocking access to the files? Is he trying to protect somebody?

[Andrew Colvett]

So, I mean, what do you think, Blake?

[Blake Neff]

I guess what I would say is I feel like that's actually the case for a lot of the people in this. I'm seeing the stuff that's going viral and what a lot of this is. It's photographs of people hanging out and then they black out the faces, and that's used to create the implication there's a super savage, sinister crime. But what you basically just have is you have Bill Clinton getting photos with people, you have Bill Gates getting photos with people, you have people having photos with Epstein. And I think it gets back to what President Trump said, which I think is reasonable. He's pointed out a lot of people met Epstein. He was a huge socialite. And when you just release a giant pile of photographs you can of someone who's become an infamous figure, you basically tar everyone by association. And I guess I would caution everyone to take a step back and think, what do we really have proof of what has actually been litigated in court? Because, for example, a lot of these cases, when they have gone to court, people have. Either they've gone to court, like Alan Dershowitz was able to sue Virginia Guthrey and she had to admit she just was lying about him, or we have cases where a lot of this has been a funny pattern that's been going on throughout the case this year, where a lot of the victims have just been saying. They've been saying, release the names, release the names, but they won't name names themselves. And I think a justifiable reason for skepticism there is. They don't want to name names themselves because they actually don't have evidence. And they're basically worried about getting sued for defamation. And they wanted others to do the work for them to justify allegations that they could kind of get away with making without being as facing as much risk of actual defamation. It just. The whole thing feels very off to me.

[Andrew Colvett]

Jack, you. You're kind of a contrarian voice in this space a little bit as well. I mean, you. I mean, where. Where would you put yourself on the spectrum of, like, he was this mastermind, international pedophile ringleader with compromise on the world's leaders versus he was just kind of like a kinky, gross, disgusting, like, sex, you know, pests that was connected to a few international leaders. Maybe he was working with the CIA, Mossad, whatever, where, like, there's so many options of what the truth Is here. It's hard to make sense of it.

[Jack Bosobic]

Yeah, look, I see what the DOJ is putting out, but I also watch Mike Benz and all the stuff that he's putting out as well. He's very well documented. These links between Epstein and intelligence. He talks about his connections to Iran. Contrast his connections to Adnan Khashoggi, the money that was being run around. Yes, that's right. The father of Jamal Khashoggi. And so it's. It's really interesting when you look at some of this stuff and the networks that he was in. And certainly there are questions on to who was running who. Was he an asset? Was he an operative? But I really do think that there's. There's a lot more to this than I think then meets the eye. But when it comes to what Blake is saying. I can appreciate what Blake's saying, because when you go to court, you absolutely need evidence and you need to be able to stand these things up on evidence. So what I would also say, though, is if the DOJ has this evidence, then we should put it out or at least make it available to any of the victims should they want to sue. And I believe that a number of the victims are getting restitution from the estate of Epstein, and I think they deserve that. But if there are people out there, like former Prince Andrew or others who are involved in crimes, then absolutely, you have to use the evidence.

[Blake Neff]

Like, that's the whole point.

[Jack Bosobic]

We have the government. This whole point. We have the Department of Justice. You know, you investigate the crimes. You don't make the victim have to investigate themselves. Right. That's the point of. That's why we have the government.

[Andrew Colvett]

Jack, one more question here before we gotta go. What do you make of this video that was circulating around yesterday? It seemed to show. And the timestamp lined up with his suicide or murder, however you wanna look at it, whether it showed him potentially committing suicide. You checked into that?

[Jack Bosobic]

Yeah, yeah. I think that ended up being a recreation. That was not an actual video. That was something that possibly was done as a recreat, CGI kind of thing to say. You know, if he did it, here's a way he possibly anatomically could have done it. Possibly something they were looking at during the autopsy. Different things like that can be created when you're ongoing investigation.

[Andrew Colvett]

But I don't think it was in the DOJ file. It was in the. You could actually access it online. It was very interesting.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[Jack Bosobic]

Yeah.

[Andrew Colvett]

It was a recreation. Jack Boic, thanks for walking us through that. Lots of lots to parse through there. Human events daily. Check out his show every day at 2pm Eastern. Merry Christmas, Jack. Thanks for everything you're doing.

[Jack Bosobic]

Merry Christmas.

[Andrew Colvett]

Candles were lit on Bondi beach by families, by children, by people of faith to celebrate a festival of light, a festival from Bible times, one that Jesus himself celebrated. People gathered with hope, seeking unity and comfort in tradition. But instead of light, there was darkness, violence, fear, hatred showing itself at a time meant for prayer and rejoicing. Times like this remind us that even with the ceasefire in Israel, Jewish people are being targeted simply because of their faith. And times like this remind us why. The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews exists to stand in the gap, providing safety and security to God's people. The fellowship brings together Christians and Jews to be a light to suffering Jews in Israel, the former Soviet Union, or wherever the needs are greatest. Together, we can make a real difference in the lives of those who need hope the most. Your gift today will help provide the security that God's people so desperately need. Visit urgentifcj.org that's one word. Urgentifcj.org or call now at 866338 IFCJ. That's 866-338-4325. All right, without further ado, we're going to talk some family business with Sean Davis. He is the right guy to do it because, you know, there's a lot of Johnny come lately. There's a lot of. There's a lot of new blood in the movement, and that's a good thing. But sometimes they don't know how. They don't know how the sausage is made. They don't know how the coalition came together in the first point, in the first part. So Sean Davis from the Federalist, one of the good guys out there, man, does he know how to tweak the left? Sean, welcome to the show.

[Sean Davis]

Thank you for having me. Merry Christmas.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, well, I tried to get you to go to Amfest, but you were adamant that you had other plans. It's not for me to divulge what you were doing instead of coming to Am Fest, but I wanted to get you. I mean, if you want to go there, it's fine with. It's fine with me, but something to do with Bambi, I don't know. But if you were on the outside looking in and Amfest, you got to see all the reactions to it, the reactions of the speeches, to the disagreements, all of these things. I want. I wanted your help to make sense of it. Sean, what. What do you make of the reactions, both the good and the bad.

[Sean Davis]

Yeah, I was up in a tree stand hunting. Not Bambi, but Bambi's dad last week, which was awesome. Got him.

[Andrew Colvett]

Good for you. I saw the fruits of your labor, and I'm impressed. I'm impressed.

[Sean Davis]

They're going to be delicious. I got to tell you what I've always loved about Amfest. I love the energy. I love the number of people you can get in there. Just like the logistical feat of pulling something like that off, let alone in a year like this, really blows my mind. But the thing that I have always loved about it, about Charlie in particular, and kind of the whole TPUSA vibe, is how ecumenical it is. He will have or had people all the time where I was like, yeah, I don't really like that guy. And then there would be people who would be like, oh, yeah, that guy's awesome. And I think that's kind of what makes the movement great, is that we don't have to always agree on everything all the time for the same reasons. And so I like having the people up there who can disagree, who can do it respectfully, because the whole point here is to build a coalition that can win elections and then do what needs to be done to save our country. So that's what I loved about Amfest this year in particular, after everything that's happened, is it would have been easy to just retreat in on yourself and become very kind of self referential and self focused. And instead, the focus stayed on the country and the movement and everyone who's within it. Even the people I don't agree with all the time.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, well said. I mean, and Blake, I want to bring you in for this as well. I mean, there just seems to be, though this. There's a rising tide of voices that are calling for, denouncing certain voice, other people that they want to see the disavow very publicly they want to see. You know, it just seems like we hadn't been in that. That posture. You hadn't heard as much of that tone. And all of a sudden, there's. There's a lot of voices saying, we got to disavow this. We got to say this. We gotta. We gotta block this. And I think a lot of it is a proxy war with JD ahead of 2028. But I'll leave it to you guys. Blake, you first. What do you make of this? I mean, because you have a little bit of sympathy, I think, for that as well, but you're much more reserved and Restrained?

[Blake Neff]

Well, I think you want to. You have to divorce, I think demands that you disavow, that you exclude someone aggressively. We know how Charlie had a lot of resistance to that, understandably so. He hated what he called moral blackmail. That was the line he used. But I don't think we saw too much of that. I think we saw a lot of people trying to characterize it that way. But I think what we saw was, you saw an aggressive posture about how. What we should be talking about, what we should care about most, what is good or bad behavior. I think let's just stay the elephant in the room. A lot of people are reacting specifically to what Ben Shapiro said immediately after Erica spoke. And I don't think Ben was saying we need to aggressively cancel people. I think he was saying he was disappointed in how a lot of people.

[Jack Bosobic]

Had.

[Blake Neff]

Handled certain topics. And I think in response to that, many people said, oh, he's trying to cancel us. I think Ben was going about it in the way Ben does. Ben is a very blunt guy. He's going to say exactly what he means and exactly what he's angry about. And I think that's going to. Some people are going to really like that. Some people are going to find it really irritating. And that's just. That's part of his brand. That's been his brand for a decade. But I think on the ground among attendees, we saw a lot of people who, frankly, they enjoyed what Ben said and what Megan said, what Tucker said. And I think that's really how a lot of the base feels. I think the people who are getting angry enough to boot others out are kind of a pretty small slice of the coalition overall.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah. And they're loud online, though, right, Sean? I mean, that's why I wanted to get your perspective in, because to Blake's point, there was. There was people in the audience who were like, what? What are we fighting about? That people had no idea. Like, that there was that. There was like a, you know, a kind of a family business fight happening. Right. And then you had people that were like, we actually did a show of hands in our members podcast room, and we said, who likes Ben's approach? And about half the hands went up. And then we're like, who likes Tucker's approach? About half the hands went up. So it was like. It was a very mixed crowd, a very mixed reception. To that and to Blake's point, I didn't hear Ben saying, we need to cancel people. Ben was just saying, you know, here, here are my lines. Here are My lines in the sand, you know, take him or leave him. And, you know, he wasn't calling us to cancel people either. He was just sort of festivus for the rest of us. He was airing his grievances in a public place and, you know, that was his.

[Blake Neff]

Charlie would appreciate that for sure.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, we don't. We don't tell anybody what to say, actually at these things. So you from the outside, but there is this loud contingent on X and other forums that are saying it's time to sort of excommunicate this or that or this person or that person.

[Sean Davis]

Yeah. And I mean, that's to be expected online. This is politics. And politics is all about getting your way so that someone else who you disagree with can't get their way. So, like, that's. It's just kind of part and parcel of how politics works. Again, what I have always liked is the ecumenicalism of TPOSA and the movement in general. And like, my personal philosophy on this is if you're within the movement, define it as loosely as you like. If you're putting points on the board, if you are bringing people to the table and you're moving the ball where we need to go, I'm good with you. Even if I might disagree with you on a whole bunch of stuff. And that goes for Tucker and Megan and you and Ben Shapiro and Nicki Minaj or anyone else. If you were rowing with us and you're not actively trying to hurt the movement and hurt the country. There's. There's a lot that I can tolerate of disagreement. And so I think it's good to have that. And the other thing to recognize is we're never going to agree with everyone all the time. I don't agree with my wife on everything all the time. I don't agree with my kids on everything all the time. I have debates in my own head with myself on issues back and forth. So, like, it's hard to get full agreement with people you know and love and care about a trillion percent. Imagine how much more difficult it is going to be to agree with everyone all the time. People who you don't know, with different backgrounds and different priorities. And then you talk about kind of like the online nature and there really is such a big divide. If you live your entire life on the Internet with the screen in front of you, you are going to have a very different perspective of where the country is than if you don't do that. And it obviously Twitter or X isn't real life, but it can be Reflective of it. So I don't want to dismiss the online debates because they're important and they do, they do mean something and they represent real people. But it's really important to be out there talking to normal people, talking to people who are not online, who are not political obsessives, because as much as it may pain people like us to hear we are political obsessives, most people are not like us. They don't look at the world through the lens that we look through it. And so it's just great to have 30,000 people, especially young people, who are forming their own worldview and their own opinions and getting their perspective. And when they are out there saying the people who are there. Yeah, half of us liked it and half of us didn't. That seems to me like you've struck a pretty good balance on how to represent the whole of the movement.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's. You're echoing so much of what JD Said in his speech. You know, let's go ahead and play some, some sound from him. 125, all of you, each and every one. President Trump did not build the greatest.

[Blake Neff]

Coalition in politics by running his supporters.

[Andrew Colvett]

Through endless self defeating purity tests. He says, make America great again because every American is invited. We don't care if you're white or.

[Blake Neff]

Black, rich or poor, young or old.

[Andrew Colvett]

And he keeps going on. Right. He made this point a lot of times. And it's not that he didn't put boundaries in the speech. I mean, he basically, he condemned anti Semitism, he condemned racism, anti white racism, anti Asian racism, and lifted up merit, merit, merit, merit. So I sort of just wonder if people, you know, if they, if he didn't straight up say, I condemn Nick Fuentes in this speech, I wonder if anybody would have been like, that crowd would have been happy. You know, he didn't have to say some people's names, which he then did.

[Blake Neff]

Condemn him by name the next day.

[Andrew Colvett]

Right? Yeah. I mean, because he came after his wife. Right. So JD Put a big line in the sand on that, on that front. But like, listen, I think the message was clear. I think 90% of people heard it, but I think there's a loud minority online that is just not gonna be happy until, you know, everybody's getting like going full Ben Shapiro and taking a howitzer to everybody else in the movement.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah.

[Sean Davis]

So I think it's when people are doing that, they are pretending to be mad about, mad at him about one thing when they're actually mad about another. Thing. And with jd, Foreign policy is the main thing. JD is not an interventionist. He's not a neocon. He's very much a realist and someone who, having been involved in America's wars personally understands that, you know, we need to be a lot more circumspective about how we get in. And so when people go after him, it's really a proxy battle over a foreign policy. And I think a lot of people, I honestly, I wish they were just more honest about what the real issue is rather than trying to pretend it's something else. This is Lane Schoenberger, chief investment officer and founding partner of yrefi. It has been an honor and a privilege to partner with Turningpoint and for Charlie to endorse us. His endorsement means the world to us.

[Andrew Colvett]

And we look forward to continuing our.

[Sean Davis]

Partnership with Turning Point for years to come. Now hear Charlie in his own words tell you about Yrefi.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm going to tell you guys about yrefi.com that is yrefy.com why refi is incredible. Private student loan debt in America totals about $300 billion. Why refi is refinancing distress or defaulted private student loans. You can finally take control of your student loan situation with a plan that works for your monthly budget. Go to yrefi.com that is whyrefi.com do you have a co borrower? Why refi can get them released from the loan. You can skip a payment up to 12 times without penalty. It may not be available in all 50 states. Go to wirefi.com that is yrefy.com let's face it, if you have distress or default to student loans, it can be overwhelming because of privacy loan debt. So many people feel stuck. Go to yrefi.com that is yrefy.com Private student loan debt relief yrefi.com.

[Andrew Colvett]

All right, we have some serious things to talk about right now. Blake and Sean, the question before you what is your favorite Christmas movie? And is Die Hard a Christmas movie? The. The eternal debate.

[Blake Neff]

Let's Sean go first.

[Sean Davis]

So I for nostalgia sake, I love A Christmas story. My kids hate it. I love it. It's what I grew up watching. I will say no, Die Hard is not a Christmas movie. And the thing that perplexes me that's to this day, what are they doing having a work party on Christmas Eve? That's crazy. Crazy.

[Blake Neff]

It was a Christmas party. It was their Christmas party for the office. But yeah, it was way too late. Is too late my favorite Christmas movie. First, I'LL say Die Hard. Definitely not a Christmas movie. It came out in the summer. It's just a movie set during Christmas that is not the same. And then I would say my favorite. You know, you don't hear about as much. I think I might fall back on. On Home Alone. Home Alone is a really good movie. It's got really good Christmas themes. Not just the funny stuff. The stuff with the man with his daughter, his estranged son. That stuff is really beautiful to watch as an adult. I didn't appreciate it as much as a kid. I really love that stuff. I should watch it again this Christmas.

[Andrew Colvett]

Oh, I have my the dude abides Christmas sweater. Yes, that is the dude from Big Lebowski. You can judge me all you want, but the dude abides. Yes, Die Hard is a Christmas movie. Yes, it was released in the summer, but it was a set on Christmas Eve, man. It's like it's perfectly situated. It lives eternally. This is why every Christmas it's on the Christmas watch list.

[Blake Neff]

Yeah, that's streaming. No, this is like a Gen X irony thing. Like it's funny to go haha. It's set during Christmas. It's technically a Christmas movie, but it's just. It is a movie set during Christmas. It doesn't have any Christmas themes about.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yes it family or the birth of Christ. Come on. He's reuniting with his wife. I mean like, yeah, action movie way.

[Blake Neff]

Like, like the lesson of Die Hard is then like you can, you can like get back with your wife by killing a bunch of terrorists.

[Sean Davis]

Not like everyone knows that.

[Blake Neff]

You know, getting over your hang ups or something. You know, it's.

[Andrew Colvett]

Oh my God. Well, listen, although I gotta take issue. Denver studio agrees with me. And yeah, Poso's chiming in too. He says the lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe is a Christmas movie.

[Sean Davis]

I gotta take issue irony thing, that. That's a millennial affectation. Gen X doesn't do faux irony. That's very much a millennial thing affect.

[Andrew Colvett]

Well, how dare you might be right here. So the. But my favorite Christmas movie is absolutely 100% it's a wonderful Life. And I love, I love like the 1980s. What is a 1983 Christmas Carol or something. I forget which I forget. I just, I know we have it on the. The. We bought it so we watch it. I forget which one it is but it was like the 1980s one and my daughter actually loves it and she seven and it's so I like watching it with her. That's my whole plan. Everybody's like, what are you doing this Christmas? I'm watching Christmas movies. Soon as I'm done today, I'm clocking out, turning the phone off. We're doing hot cocoa and pajamas and we're watching Christmas movies. I plan to gain at least £4.

[Blake Neff]

Hot cocoa to insulate yourself from the cold 65 degree winds of Santa Barbara.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, well, listen, I. I'm trying to. I'm trying to stay warm. I will tell you. So. Hey, Sean, let me know what you think here. So I think a lot of these battles just started. Got to make it serious for the last three minutes we have here. A lot of these battles are just a proxy about foreign policy. Why is that issue in particular? Is it just because the military industrial complex? Is it because there's so much money involved? It's like, you know, people's tribalism on display. What, what drives the foreign policy debate when we have a whole country to govern? Why is that always such a big deal?

[Sean Davis]

Yeah, it's such a good question. Obviously, I think the money involved is a big thing. You know, how many trillions of dollars did we spend in Iraq and Afghanistan? And then when those were finally wound down, it magically was transferred to like half a trillion dollars to Ukraine. Now we're suddenly talking about maybe regime change in Venezuela, which obviously would be a terrible idea. So money is a huge thing. I also think there is a very large. I don't want to say it's totally moral blackmail, but people really enjoy patting themselves on the back for being compassionate and willing to spend other people's lives and other people's money to do things which they think are morally right to do. It's kind of the, the COVID nannying, but taken to a foreign policy extent. Oh, I'm not doing this to help myself. I'm trying to keep you safe. I think there is a large segment of people who really, really enjoy the moralizing aspect of it. Almost like the stolen moral valor aspect of it. So I think it's that plus the money. And then also there are people who just genuinely think we need to be involved everywhere. Why are we big and powerful and why did we have this role if we're not just going to go be the world police? I think there are people who legitimately believe that.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah. And you know, Charlie used to rail against people being fixated and fascinated about, you know, foreign abstractions. It's somehow, I think, honestly, when you get into a position of power, political office, it's easier to sort of think about others far and away and ignore the problems right at your doorstep, because those are harder and. And. And, you know, it might reflect poorly on your own self. So, Blake, take us home.

[Blake Neff]

Yeah, I think. I think Sean's exactly right. People do get. They get fixated on these big abstract thing. I think, honestly, it's almost. I think it's. A lot of people who get into politics and get into government are kind of nerds and dorks, and they remember being kids and they liked the idea, oh, I'm moving these, like, big.

[Andrew Colvett]

The.

[Blake Neff]

I can move these armies. It'd be so cool if I was Alexander the Great. It'd be so cool if I was Napoleon. And then they get into government and they kind of get to fill these fantasies. That sounds like the wrong word comes to mind.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah.

[Blake Neff]

God complex or just self importance. A lot of self importance. And you certainly see that in D.C. all the time, and it's really annoying.

[Jack Bosobic]

And.

[Andrew Colvett]

Well, listen.

[Blake Neff]

Persists forever.

[Andrew Colvett]

Christmas season, we remember that Jesus came to earth. He's God, and we are not Him. So that's our message to all the godlike, complex folks. Thanks, Sean. We'll see you soon.

[Sean Davis]

Merry Christmas.

[Andrew Colvett]

Merry Christmas.

[Blake Neff]

For more on many of these stories.

[Sean Davis]

And news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.