A (3:33)

Well, I have a theory here. You might agree or you might take. And even people on our side that are afraid to talk about this, I think that they don't want it to be true. I think that there's a discomfort that will set in. There's almost a point of no going back as soon as you start to admit that there is this broad, organized criminal network that probably stole this election. And I think a lot of people are kind of saying, look, 10 months ago, I was living a nice life. We had a great New Year celebration. No one was wearing masks and everything was wonderful. Could we just go back to that? Maybe Joe Biden will get us back to that. And it's almost as if, if you start to talk about this, there is no going back to that. Meaning that you're gonna go to a whole nother level.

B (4:18)

Charlie, you're wise for your young age, and that's not saying much. You're so young. That's really saying nothing. But I wanna tell you, I think what you're saying is correct for your average person. What I don't understand is people that I would think of as on the right side, as heroic voices have been quiet. Am I only seeing certain information and these people aren't seeing it? In other words, how do you dismiss a Sidney Powell or Giuliani or Jenna Ellis? In other words, I think that there's some people that they're really cynical that they could just so easily dismiss this stuff and all of the evidence of people talking about the, forgive me, the mathematical anomalies and all that kind of stuff, it's so compelling. What am I missing? In other words, how do other people not see this? Am I just gullible? I'm sure that's what many People must

A (5:17)

think, well, most of the other people do see this. The question is, why are they not speaking out about it? And again, I think there is a retreat saying that either we can't win. The more we talk about it, I'm gonna pay a big personal cost if I talk about it, which is a very big thing. The more that we've been talking about this, we've been suppressed by social media. We've gotten strikes by the big tech companies. You know, this is not exactly a topic or an issue that is lighthearted to talk about in the 6 o' clock NewsHour. This is serious stuff that involves criminal networks, this involves coverups, this involves the actual integrity of our elections. And this is typically. Actually, this tells us we're onto something, Eric. Cause whenever there is a vast network of behavior that is illegal is uncovered, it's typically this sequence of events. And the argument I make is this, and I don't mean this as an anti Catholic argument. I don't. But if you would have told anyone in Boston in the early 1960s that there were hundreds of priests that were molesting children and the Catholic Church knew about it, the diocese covered it up, and they had legal represent, people would say, you're nuts. Shut up, heretic. Go to confession.

B (6:29)

Okay, look, that is brilliant. No, no, no, listen. That is a brilliant analogy, Charlie. Thank you. Because it does help us to frame this. I was going to go. My analogy is not nearly as good, but I was going to say, let's say it's 1917 or 1916, and you're living in Russia and you have a wonderful life in Russia, and somebody tells you that in a matter of months, this nation, this vast nation, the nation of Tolstoy and Dostoevsky, this is going to become one of the most satanic, oppressive slave states the world has ever known. People are going to be tortured for thinking the wrong way. The czar's secret police were nothing compared to what is going to happen. And every intellectual, every person of sincere Christian faith, every Jew is going to be targeted and sent to the most horrific death camps and work camps in Siberia. Now, you and I know that happened. So for me, what this amounts to is people are unwilling to see evil. In other words, people keep thinking that the normal life we had before COVID or whatever it was, or the normal life before Trump, people who hate Trump think if we could just go back to the normal life of 2015, they're unwilling to deal with the fact that there is evil. Priests molesting boys is Satanic evil. But I guess I'm just surprised, Charlie, that there are so few people that we might look to who aren't talking about this. I mean, why aren't Mitch McConnell and those kind of people screaming about this? Tucker Carlson's not screaming about this. I adore Tucker Carlson, but he's not really screaming about this. It doesn't seem normal to me. It seems very strange to me.

A (8:42)

Well, and there's a lot of layers to that. And part of it, Eric, is that there is a group of people out there that are in power, Senator McConnell and some of these other members of Congress, that they're okay if Trump loses. In fact, they're more powerful. Mitch McConnell becomes the pseudo Republican president.

B (9:03)

Okay, so that's the point, right? So you look at somebody, Mitch McConnell, I've always thought that he was a swamp creature. That's what I consider him to be. Shame on him. Shame on him. But there are a zillion others, whether it's Ted Cruz or there are so many heroes, even they don't seem to be speaking loudly enough.

A (9:23)

Or maybe they're not spoke up. Yeah, okay, no, I know that's one worthy of recognition, but your point is exactly right, Eric. Why is there this stunning landscape of silence? When I made an argument yesterday, and I think it actually resonates, particularly what you're saying. It's not that we have no evidence, it's almost that we have too much evidence that people don't believe us. Cuz they say there's no way there could be this much evidence. And also people say that Biden's the winner. It's almost that we have mountains of evidence. We have an overwhelming amount of evidence that normal people look at this and they say there's no way you have this much evidence. I would know about this by now. I'd read it in the New York Times and they almost disengage.

B (10:07)

That's exactly right. You're right.

A (10:10)

The other point of this super quick is that the natural human inclination in this moment is to go back to memories of when things were comfortable, when things were normal. But we have now entered a fighting season in our country. And it tells us in Ecclesiastes there is a season for everything. This is a fighting season. And a lot of people don't like fighting seasons.

B (10:37)

You're exactly right, Charlie. And I think that you know what this reminds me of. Again, you have to go to history to try to figure this out. Every time I hear about the United states entering the Second World War on December 7th coming up, like this week, December 7th, 1941. And you think to yourself, what were these jerks doing for over two years while Hitler in the most evil way went about his dark business on the European continent? We in this country did nothing. Now, in retrospect, because we did eventually get in, we act like we were the heroes of World War II and we did it. And you think, well, where were we when Churchill was all alone and when everybody was saying it sounds like what you're saying and what I'm saying, they were kind of acting like, well, you know, we don't need to get involved. That's in Europe. And now we look back and we think, how could any human being with any human feeling not get involved in a war against Adolf Hitler? But they needed two years of bucking up before they were willing to enter the war. Before Pearl harbor happened, that sort of forced us to enter the war. But I think maybe we're in something like that now.

A (12:11)

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B (14:53)

I mean, it is fascinating. And National Review is dead. Like, I cannot imagine that they are daily writing articles on why we need to move on. And it's a disgrace that the President is going out on this note. And I think to myself, folks, again, I don't know what you're looking at, but the very idea, this is like somebody saying that your child is being murdered and raped down the block. And if you do anything about it, it's not going to go well for you, I can guarantee you 80% chance you're going to die. And you would say so like, and in other words that there's no way I'm going to let that happen. If there's one in a thousand chance, one in a million chance I'm going to go and do the right thing, I would be happy to die. Because that is so evil what is happening, what is happening in this country right now, if it is even possible. In other words, if there are people who say, well, I'm not so sure, I would say to them, well, if you think there's any chance that this is real, the idea that you would look the other way doesn't really make any sense to me. How can you not take this seriously and understand that if Biden were inaugurated under this cloud right now with 70 million plus people believing he's a real fraud, not just they don't like him, they didn't vote for him, but that he's a fraud, that you wouldn't speak up. This is. Again, I'm just mystified. I don't get this.

A (16:20)

Well, and part of it is that people believe the kind of hypnosis from the main propaganda channels where they say, well, there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud. First of all, there you have an objective and a subjective statement. So this is a very important point that we need to. You've heard this many times, right? It's almost an incantation that they say on television every day, there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud. They say it almost as a prayer ritual on cnn. They have to, every day. And so what you have, there is no meaning. There's none. Zero. That's objective. And then widespread. That's a really important thing, though. How do you define widespread? This is really important. For example, 1% wouldn't be widespread. That's not widespread. 1%'s the margin in many of these states. So all of a sudden, if we just have 1%. Voter fraud, Eric, 1%. Donald Trump is president, and based on all the evidence we have, we have way more evidence to show there's even more than 1%.

B (17:16)

But look, but even that narrative, in other words, to talk about that isn't the real issue, Charlie, that we're talking about conspiracy. There were people, leaders, powerful people, who made a decision before the election that this is what we're going to do. That's really what we need to go after, isn't it? Who were the people conspiring to overturn the will of the American people? Isn't that the real question? Who were those people?

A (17:43)

No, of course. But just a lot of the response that regular Republicans say is, well, there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud. It couldn't have made a difference. A lot of them have started to see some of the narrative. They still don't trust the results, but they're kind of like, it's time to move on, time to close the chapter. It's time to let's get back to being gentlemen and overseeing the downfall of the West. And so, yes, the who is very important. And there's about 50 different variables here. And I have a. It all made sense to me last night. We were doing a livestream and it all just kind of came together. I said, of course. I said I went to about 15 Maga rallies in the last six months. These are very sophisticated productions, multi thousand volunteers, tens of thousands, attendees, security. And I said, now I know why Biden wasn't doing events all that infrastructure was being deployed into all this other stuff, ballot laundering, signature nonsense. I mean, to do events is a lot of work. It's not about the virus. And maybe he couldn't build a crowd. The point is this is that they put all of their collective brain power not into persuasion, not into actual kind of the typical mechanics of an election. Instead they said, we are now going to try and change the way we do elections forever. So a big part of this was the center for Technology and civic life, CTCL, the $350 million that came from Facebook, that changed the way we did elections forever, where we had these big ballot drop boxes that were on every single corner in urban America.

B (19:19)

So this is the 350 million million that Zuckerberg gave. Okay, now that's its own scandal again.

A (19:30)

There's 15 of these that I could put all together. So yeah, so it was a SL BE 501C3. They had about a half a million dollar budget called the center for Technology and Civic Life. They really didn't do anything dramatic until they got approached. And there was a plan that was hatched around April or May of this year, probably because the big tech companies were afraid of a antitrust complaint that was coming their way very soon from a Democrat Congress. So they kind of wanted to show the Democrats with a wink and a nod, hey, were doing the good work. Because you have to understand, these antitrust complaints that the Democrats were floating in Congress were nothing more than a legislative extortion scheme to try to get the multi trillion dollar companies to get involved in this election on their behalf. Cuz they blamed Facebook for Donald Trump's election wrongly in 2016. Of course, they'd actually never blame their candidate or their tactics or their messaging. So then Zuckerberg donates 350 to 400 million dollars to the center for Technology and Civic Life. And again, you go from a $500,000 operating budget, Eric, to 350 to 400 million, you're probably going to have a pretty good idea of where that money's going. Zuckerberg's not going to execute that wire transfer or donate that stock if he doesn't know in a pretty form or fashion that that's going to benefit something he cares about. Under the virus restrictions that all of these state local municipalities were under, particularly Philadelphia, Detroit, Milwaukee, Georgia, Maricopa county and Phoenix, the center for Technology and Civic Life started to work hand in hand with the Secretary of State's office and the county recorders in these massive counties in swing states, primarily swing States, but they peppered around other states just to cover themselves legally. And they started to install these massive drop boxes. And this is just one thing they did all across the country. And you might have saw them where then you could put ballots in them. Now what's the significance of that? Well, as people were getting 10, 15, 20, 30 ballots sent to their home wrongly, and everyone wears masks all the time, you could in an unidentified way drop off 30 ballots into these drop boxes and then the ballots are effectively laundered. This is exactly what happened. So you have dirty ballots that if you were to go through the regular process of going to the county recorder's office and turning them in with your id, they'd say, well, show me if this is really your ballot. You can then drop them into these boxes and you're completely cleansed of it. And you can't get caught because it's not mail fraud. So there's no record of it going actually into the U.S. the Postal Service mail system. It's this very weird kind of short circuitry of the elections. Beyond that, they provided the vote counting tabulators, they provided grants for people that actually had back end and front end access to how the votes were counted. I'll give you another example. An organization by the name of Rock the Vote. You may have heard this organization before, of course.

B (22:23)

Yep.

A (22:24)

They were given front end access to input ballots, front end access to input ballots in Pennsylvania and Michigan. So they were given basically the passwords to the Secretary of state's office. This is discovered by the great Phil Klein, who we've had on our program. Former Attorney General of Kansas. I encourage you to have him on. He's uncovered a lot of this.

B (22:44)

If you give us his information. He's been on my list. I'll get that from you. Go off the air.

A (22:49)

But this is just one of the many different scandals that we're operating together. And what's very clear though, the only through line here, though Eric, and you mentioned it, is that powerful people are behind all of these. This is not an organic thing where people are rising to the streets or big rallies are happening. No center for technology and civic life. A guy worth $110 billion writes a 400, 350 to $400 million check. Wow. All of a sudden big tech starts censoring all conservative voices. The multi trillion dollar companies get involved in our elections. Signature verification. Who changed that? Secretary of State's office in collusion and conjunction with people like Stacey Abrams and the multi billionaire lobby got involved and changed the way we did elections and signature verification. All of these things were plotted months in advance. So while we were worried about the polls, maybe not. We were really loving voter registration. All of a sudden, they were changing the way that elections were done. And here's the proof if you wanna say, well, Charlie, how can you prove this? Florida. That's how I can prove it. It's the only state where none of this crap was allowed. Ron DeSantis said, you're not putting these boxes on our streets. We do elections our way. If you request a ballot, you have to verify the signature. Everything was done beautifully in Florida. I voted in Florida, Eric, and I saw firsthand when I voted early in Sarasota County, Florida, a guy tried to come in and vote right next to me as I was signing in. And they said, well, he checked in. They said, sir, it shows that we already sent you a ballot. He says, I didn't get a ballot. Making some excuse. They said, we can't let you vote today because we already sent you a ballot unless you surrender your ballot. He got frustrated and left. I said, right. There is an example of voter fraud that just got deterred. The system was working in front of my very eyes. And Florida, what did Donald Trump do? Won by four points. So you have a battleground state where Florida used to be decided by 10,000 votes or less. It was always razor thin. They did their elections the right way. Do you remember in 2018, you had Brenda Snipes in Broward county, where you had Senator Bill Nelson against then Governor Rick Scott. This was just two years ago. Brenda Snipes kept on finding ballots, and they were driving in the middle of the night. You know what Ron DeSantis did the moment he became governor? He said, I demand your resignation. We're redoing the way we do elections in this state. And all of a sudden, Florida had their results by 9 o' clock Eastern, and Donald Trump wins by four points. I want to thank all of you that have already donated to my Angel Tree campaign. I want to invite the rest of you to join in today by going to charliekirk.com and clicking on the Angel Tree banner. That's how you can help the child of a prisoner right here in America by giving that child a very special Christmas through our friends at Prison Fellowship. For example, there's this young lady, Deanna, who grew up without her father in the home because he was in prison. But she still says she was able to bond with him through gifts from people like you. For a gift of just $22, you can provide a child like Deanna with a special Christmas gift, plus a personalized note from their mom or dad in prison and access to a beautiful new Bible in English or Spanish. Or for $220, you can bless 10 children of prisoners this Christmas because as I like to say, no child should be punished for the misdeeds of a parent, especially at Christmas time. Just go to charliekirk.com and click on the Angel Tree banner to make your gift. Or my special phone number, 888-206-2802. It's a great cause. Check it out. Charliekirk.com Angel Tree. It's a prison fellowship ministry. It does a phenomenal job. Please check it out.

B (26:35)

I knew there was a reason I was gonna have you on this program today. I gotta tell you, Charlie, this is all wonderfully clarifying, not just for me, but I'm sure from most of my audience. Where do you think we are, do you think? Where do you think we go between here and December 14th?

A (27:00)

I think the state legislatures need to start stepping up and I think we're starting to see that. I think every state legislature in Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan should step up and call a special session to possibly withhold electors. I don't necessarily think they should seat them for Trump. I think that would be probably a step too far. Just say we don't have the confidence to seat our electors. That's the way this process works. And it says very clearly in the Constitution that the state legislatures oversee the seating of electors and we'll see the kind of backbone that we have in some of these states. We are seeing the preemptive certification of these elections in a lot of states. But that doesn't mean anything. Certification is nothing. It all comes down to the state legislature. We might get a very favorable rating ruling, I should say, from the Supreme Court. I am not banking anything on the courts at this moment. I think that they're gonna try to be apolitical and if there's anything, there might be some technicality, clarification. So I think the best hope we have is the state legislature.

B (28:01)

You've said so much of value today. I just gotta ask you, though, I still have so many questions. It's such a mystifying situation. You have people like three star General Tom McInerney in a conversation with General Flynn the other day talking about stuff that is way beyond Zuckerberg giving money to do what you described earlier because that's almost legitimate in an ugly way. You can see that wasn't a Conspiracy by the Democratic Party or by the deep state that we know of. It was just somebody, Zuckerberg, trying to in a sense, take care of himself by doing this. Right. And we know it's evil, but at the same time it makes some kind of sense. But when you have General Flynn and General McInerney talking about the CIA and the FBI and the deep state trying to do a coup, where do you go with that?

A (29:03)

I don't dismiss it. And I mean, I think after what we've learned of what our intelligence agencies are capable of and what they've done, I think it would be wrong to kind of throw that out. I will say this, that if you look at the characteristics of how the Central Intelligence Agency used to overthrow governments, one of the things that is in the playbook of the CIA is, is to publish polls that show that the incumbent you're trying to overthrow is very unpopular. So that when the final result comes that you want, no one is surprised by it. That is, the Soviets used to do this all the time when they used to overthrow governments back in the 70s and 80s. This was part of their playbook too. And so. And here's one thing though, as we start to talk about this, I think we just need to ask questions and ask for verification. For example, what would compel McInerney to say what he is saying at this phase in his life, one of the most reputable generals, and he starts talking about Hammer and Scorecard and the manipulation of votes and all this stuff. It's pretty chilling. It really is. And by the way, this rabbit hole can be endless, that we can go down. But I don't dismiss it and I don't think anyone should. And what's. So let me just make a really interesting point here, which is that I grew up in an America, Eric. I grew up in an America post 9 11, where all of my liberal friends and all of the Democrats and all the documentaries that I was forced to watch told me the CIA was the worst thing ever and they used to overthrow governments and they were being used by George W. Bush. I say is now the Democrat Party, the pro CIA party. Cuz that's really fascinating to me. I thought they were the ones that were always trying to tell us that they're the ones that are trying to usurp the will of the American people.

B (30:42)

Well, but when you say you wouldn't dismiss it, you're not sounding clearly. This is not something that you're taking all that seriously.

A (30:52)

No, I am. I just think that it's. I Don't think we as civilians are ever gonna be able to uncover that. I just don't. I think that finding, whether or not Gina Haspel and Brennan and all them were using the Central Intelligence Agency domestically to overthrow a couple, that's something that is very compelling. It might be true. I think that there's other pieces of this puzzle that are much better, are much easier to be proven than that. And that's something for Michael Flynn and McInerney to focus on. And again, I don't dismiss it. I'm not saying it's wacko, but it

B (31:27)

sounds to me like Sidney Powell is also focused on this.

A (31:31)

Yeah, And I would love to see exactly what her, you know, what some of that evidence is. I read her 104 page lawsuit. It was very compelling. But I think they're all gonna hit walls here because if we think that the agency is all of a sudden gonna have a smoking gun around that we can prove what they did, I think we're fooling ourselves. I mean, we're dealing with the most sophisticated spy operation in the history of the planet. And so.

B (31:54)

Okay, well, that's the CIA. Let's talk for a second then, about the FBI and the doj. What do you think is happening, for example, with the relative silence of Barr? In other words, do you have any theories there? Are he and the President working on something behind the scenes and they're just not talking about it?

A (32:13)

It could be. Probably not. I think that there is a concerted effort, especially in the top brass of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, to go back to business as usual, to kind of have a changing of the guard. And why? There was no massive voter. I mean, maybe there was gonna be a huge, massive voter fraud revelation or investigation that comes out at some point. Maybe that's gonna happen. I'm not. I'm not necessarily optimistic about that. I'm not. And here's why I said that if John Durham does not come out with his report by August, then nothing will stop these people from stealing, lying, and doing it again. Why have we not seen the Durham report? We are now in December. Eric, I have lost complete and total faith in the Department of Justice. I view it nothing more than. Than a political enforcement tool of the Democrat Party. And I could prove it.

B (33:04)

But Attorney General Barr is the head of it. How?

A (33:07)

I don't know.

B (33:08)

Is he? What do you mean you don't know? What don't you know?

A (33:13)

I don't know. What? I can't explain Barr's action or inaction. I cannot tell you why his Department of Justice authorized investigations and authorized, for example, why go out of your way? And I know it's the Southern District and all that, but it's still under the DOJ purview to go after Steve Bannon, while you won't go after Peter Strzok and Lisa Page. That I just cannot comprehend. And so that stuff's happening under his Department of Justice.

B (33:45)

Okay, let's go to something that's a little bit clearer. Georgia. The governor of Georgia, the Secretary of State in Georgia seem potentially to have made a deal with, whether it's smartmatic or Dominion, they seem to have somehow been in on this. Does that. Is that resonating with you?

A (34:03)

What do you think of that potentially? I mean, there's evidence to show that lobbyists around Brian Kemp have also been very much influenced by smartmatic and Dominion voting systems. I have a couple questions for Raffensperger and for Brian Kemp. Why did you use Dominion? Why did you award them a nine figure contract? I would love to know the explanation for that.

B (34:24)

Well, I mean, that smells. That really stinks. It's $150 million of taxpayer money. You know, I don't know the answer, but it's kind of interesting to me that Sidney Powell and Lin Wood are going after Kemp. I mean, that, you know, they're not dumb people. Why would they be going after Kemp? Why would they be using this kind of language in talking about what happened in Georgia?

A (34:51)

Well, cause there's probably something to it. And Brian Kemp and Raffensperger, they have basically surrendered to the Stacey Abrams lobby in Georgia. And Raffensperger was afraid of being called a racist by Stacey Abrams again. And relaxed signature requirements, relaxed absentee ballot standards, changed the way that we count votes. For example, we have on this board here, Floyd county, they just found 2,600 votes, 800 plus benefit for Trump. This was a couple weeks ago. You might remember this. Fayette County, 450 plus for Trump. Walton County, 176 for Trump. So the point is that the Georgia election was an absolute mess. I would love to have an answer to this question from Raffensperger or Kemp. Why did they stop counting votes? Because they said there was a pipe burst, when in reality it was a urinal that overflowed. I would love to know the answer to that question.

B (35:45)

But again, this is one of these things that. That's all you need to know. Something wicked is happening when somebody lies brazenly. It's very brazen lie. There's a reason they did it. And you know it's not a good reason. You know that. Just a minute left. Charlie, what do you think is going to happen? Do you think that. That this president will be inaugurated?

A (36:11)

Impossible to know. I think that the probability is not why I fight. I fight because we're fighting for truth. And I don't want to weigh the odds like we're, you know, a Vegas betting table. What I will say is this, and I was reading proverbs last night, this deceit that they have planned, it will not be honored by God. It will fall. It will collapse. Whether now or in the future, we can rest assured that what they pulled off here will be one of the most egregious, one of the most egregious things in the history of our country to try and thwart the will of the American people.

B (36:48)

And you have no doubt that that is what happened?

A (36:52)

I have no doubt this was stolen. None. I've said it publicly.

B (36:55)

Well, that's what I'm saying. When people like you say that. There are enough people like you that I respect tremendously are all saying that. And so my attitude is similar to yours is that it doesn't matter what the odds of victory are. If we don't fight to the death for something like this, we have no soul. I'll end on that happy note. Charlie, Kirk, great to be with you.

A (37:17)

Thank you, Eric. God bless you. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. If you want to get involved with TurningPoint USA, go to tpusa.com our email is freedomcharliekirk.com if you have something that you want to send me. And thank you guys for supporting us at charliekirk. Com. Support. God bless you guys. Speak to you soon. Thanks so much.