Podcast Summary: The Charlie Kirk Show

Episode: The Minneapolis Mogadishu Looting Operation
Date: November 21, 2025
Host: Charlie Kirk
Notable Guests: Ryan Thorpe (Manhattan Institute, journalist), "Cremu" (healthcare analyst/substack author)

Episode Overview

This episode centers on explosive investigative reporting into systemic welfare fraud purportedly perpetrated by organized rings within the Somali immigrant community in Minnesota. The discussion connects billions of dollars in state and federal welfare programs allegedly siphoned through elaborate scams—ultimately, in some cases, funding terrorist organizations like Al Shabaab overseas. The show then pivots to systemic failures and perverse incentives plaguing American healthcare post-Obamacare, with a guest expert delving into issues such as provider rent-seeking, regulatory inertia, and the structural factors inflating costs.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Welfare Fraud in Minnesota and Alleged Terrorist Funding

Guest: Ryan Thorpe, Manhattan Institute
Main Themes:

• Large-scale fraud in Minnesota's welfare and Medicaid programs, with Somali-run rings exemplified as the main perpetrators
• Money being funneled overseas, some allegedly ending up with Somalia-based terrorist group Al Shabaab
• Systemic failures of oversight, deliberate lack of checks/balances
• The sociopolitical climate described as enabling fraud via "Minnesota nice" and fear of being called racist

Timestamps and Details:

• [02:30] Ryan Thorpe summarizes the core claim:

  "There are billions of dollars of fraud going on, particularly targeting government welfare programs… The fraud has gotten so bad that the U.S. attorney's office has indicated that there are entire government welfare programs where the fraud outstrips the legitimate claims... Some of these stolen funds, millions of dollars, are being sent abroad through hawala networks... and some of that money has ended up in the hands of Al Shabaab, to the point that one of our sources said the largest funder of Al Shabaab is the Minnesota taxpayer."

• [03:43] Andrew Colvitt reads the article’s provocative opening, setting the tone:

  "Minnesota is drowning in fraud. Billions in taxpayer dollars have been stolen during the administration of Governor Tim Waltz alone... Democrat state officials... are asleep at the switch. And the media, duty bound by progressive pieties, refuse to connect the dots."

• [04:18] Blake Neff shares statistics:

  "Autism claims to Medicaid in Minnesota have skyrocketed from $3 million in 2018... to $399 million in 2023... The Somali community has established autism treatment centers for culturally appropriate programming."

• [05:24] How the autism "scam" worked (Thorpe):

  "The woman accused in this case would approach members of the Somali community... She would sign them up for autism services. If the child wasn't autistic, she would get them a fraudulent diagnosis, and then kickbacks would be paid to Somali parents."

Additional Duplicated Scams

• [06:55] Housing Stabilization Service scheme—fraudulent claims far outpaced legitimate ones; eight indictments, mostly Somali, some Nigerian

  "If you were to design a government program specifically to facilitate fraud, it would probably look a lot like this program was… fraudulent companies were set up… state stepped in and shuttered the program."

• [09:30] Sociopolitical context:

  "You have a sizable Somali community that comes from a tribal clan-based society... willing to cynically deploy accusations of racism as a shield… and a political establishment terrified of being seen as politically incorrect… When those things collide, this is what you get."

Memorable Quotes

• [13:47] Prosecutor's view:

  "The depth of the fraud in Minnesota takes my breath away."
  (Thorpe quoting a fraud prosecutor, "Thompson")

Policy & Cultural Reflections

• Law enforcement can't solve it alone; need for policy change ([14:25])
• Cultural disparity between high-trust Minnesota society and recently arrived, clan-centric refugees:

  "You can't discount that clash of cultures as a major factor." ([12:32] Thorpe)

• Noted example: “Feeding Our Future” scam during COVID—widespread fraud under the cover of feeding children ([15:29]).

2. Systemic Flaws in American Healthcare

Guest: Cremu (Substack healthcare analyst)
Main Themes:

• Perverse incentives post-Affordable Care Act (ACA)
• Medical Loss Ratio (MLR) requirements as a root cause of cost inflation and vertical integration
• Barriers to competition—deliberate caps on residency slots (AMA influence)
• Regulatory non-enforcement (price transparency, site-neutral payments)
• Illegals' cost impact exaggerated; main problem is provider-side rents and aging population

Timestamps and Details:

• [20:05] On the MLR requirement (Cremu):

  "If they charge their customers X amount, they have to spend 85% of X [on claims]. That is effectively a profit cap... so you end up with costs just kind of running everywhere. You end up with incentives for vertical integration."

• [22:30] On bans for physician-run hospitals:

  "It's a real ban. Unfortunately, you cannot start a new one. There are some existing physician run hospitals that predate the ACA's ban... but you can't both be a practicing physician and run the hospital."

• [27:16] On cost drivers:

  "Old people are the biggest parts here. And the fact that we have bad incentives for cost control… your growth is provider side rents… payments that go to doctors that are way in excess of what the care they're providing is worth."

• [28:22] AMA's role capping residency and limiting provider competition:

  "The AMA argued there was going to be a surplus of doctors... and now they argue they don’t limit [slots], but yes, there’s still limitations on the growth."

• [31:01] Most important reform suggestion:

  "The ACA's medical loss ratio, the MLR... leads to an enormous level of cost shifting... It's the worst thing on the books."

• [36:58] Strategy for Republicans:

  "Keep [pre-existing condition coverage], fix the medical loss ratio requirement, and allow insurers to make better use of prior authorization to minimize downside."

• [37:17] On what Trump (executive branch) could do:

  "They could fix tons of the issues with CMS... The issue is the enforcement… enforcement[!]"

Notable Reality Checks

• On illegal immigrants’ role in costs ([27:16], [39:00]):

  "Not a big driver. The most liberal estimate that I’ve seen... is about 0.9%."

• On subsidies:

  "Healthcare is a $5 trillion industry. It is so much larger than these subsidies…" ([39:28])

Strong Quotes

• [41:34] "30 to 40% ... of the care we give out in this country just isn’t necessary." (Cremu)
• [43:46] "[After every episode] I always feel so much more optimistic because you’re like, 'there are all these big changes we could make,' and then you go back into politics and it’s such a mess." (Blake Neff)

Notable Quotes

• "[Somali] community has established autism treatment centers... 1 in 16 Somali 4 year olds has reportedly been diagnosed with autism."
  — Blake Neff ([04:18])
• "If you were to design a government program specifically to facilitate fraud, it would probably look a lot like this program was."
  — Ryan Thorpe ([06:55])
• "You bring in people from a different culture, you bring in a different culture."
  — Blake Neff ([15:29])
• "The ACA's medical loss ratio… It’s the worst thing on the books."
  — Cremu ([31:01])
• "30 to 40% ...of the care, and I'm leaning more towards the 40 side that we give out in this country just isn't necessary."
  — Cremu ([41:34])

Memorable Moments & Segment Timestamps

• 02:30 — Start of Ryan Thorpe interview about Somali fraud and Al Shabaab connections
• 05:24 — Details of the Minnesota autism Medicaid scam
• 06:55 — Medicaid Housing Stabilization Service fraud breakdown
• 09:30 — “Perfect storm” of fraud: cultural/political dynamics in Minnesota
• 13:47/14:25 — "No law enforcement solution"—need for policy change
• 15:29 — Minnesota's "Feeding Our Future" food scam discussed
• 19:12 — Transition to U.S. healthcare cost drivers with Cremu
• 22:30 — Physician-run hospital ban explained
• 27:16 / 39:00 — Illegal immigrants’ cost impact addressed (minimal)
• 28:22 — Historical context of AMA capping residencies
• 31:01 — Cremu identifies MLR as “the worst thing on the books”
• 36:58 — Discussion of strategy for Republican health care reform
• 37:17 — What the Trump administration could do right now: "Enforce the rules!"
• 41:34–43:46 — The perverse incentive structure and over-servicing in U.S. healthcare

Structure & Tone

• Language/Tone:
  The discussion is unapologetically conservative, direct, and confrontational toward progressive policies and multiculturalism. The tone is “no-holds-barred”—indignant about policy failures but occasionally pragmatic when discussing actionable solutions.
• Notable for Those Who Haven’t Listened:
  This episode offers a deep-dive into allegations of government fraud via immigrant communities in Minnesota, as well as a unique perspective on the inner workings and failures of the U.S. healthcare system post-ACA. The policy recommendations are specific, as are the cultural explanations for observed public sector problems.

For Listeners: Why This Episode Matters

• Exposes underreported angles on welfare fraud, tying it to cultural differences, political timidity, and national security
• Explains complex healthcare cost drivers with clarity and specificity, offering actionable reform ideas
• Directly challenges popular narratives about who and what is driving both welfare fraud and health system bloat