The Obamagate Grand Jury Is Coming

Summary

The Obamagate Grand Jury Is Coming: An In-Depth Analysis on The Charlie Kirk Show

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Charlie Kirk Show
• Host: Charlie Kirk
• Episode: The Obamagate Grand Jury Is Coming
• Release Date: August 5, 2025

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Introduction

In this riveting episode of The Charlie Kirk Show, host Charlie Kirk delves deep into the emerging legal saga dubbed "Obamagate." Joined by distinguished guest Dr. Charles Steele from Hillsdale College, the discussion navigates through intricate political maneuvers, economic theories, and the broader implications of accountability in American politics.

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Obamagate: The Emerging Legal Battle

00:00 - 06:13 | Setting the Stage

Charlie Kirk opens the episode by addressing the latest developments in "Obamagate," a term referring to the alleged misconduct of former President Barack Obama and his associates. He emphasizes the significance of recent actions taken by Pam Bondi, the Florida Attorney General, who has ordered a federal prosecutor to present evidence before a Florida grand jury.

Charlie Kirk (00:43): "We have been promised accountability for years, from Benghazi to the Hillary Clinton emails. Now, with Pam Bondi's move, Obamagate seems like a real step forward."

06:13 - 09:08 | Trump's Position on Obamagate

In a prerecorded segment, former President Donald Trump expresses his support for the investigation, asserting that those involved "deserve it."

Donald Trump (06:16): "Pam is doing a great job. I have nothing to do with it. They deserve it."

Charlie Kirk responds by clarifying the constitutional aspects of presidential authority, noting that while the Attorney General operates under the President's directive, pursuing charges against Obama could backfire politically.

Charlie Kirk (06:49): "Prosecuting Obama might create a political martyr, given his enduring popularity, whereas focusing on figures like John Brennan could yield a more straightforward legal path."

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Guest Interview: Dr. Charles Steele on Economic Policies

17:39 - 33:06 | The Perils of Rent Control and Government-Run Grocery Stores

Transitioning from political discourse, Charlie Kirk introduces Dr. Charles Steele, an Associate Professor of Economics at Hillsdale College, to discuss the economic implications of policies advocated by progressive figures like Ahmed Mamdani.

Rent Control: A Deceptive Solution

Charlie Kirk probes into rent control policies, questioning their efficacy in cities like New York.

Charlie Kirk (19:41): "Cities with the most rent control, like New York, San Francisco, and D.C., have the highest average housing prices. How does freezing rent exacerbate housing issues?"

Dr. Steele provides a comprehensive analysis, explaining that rent control disincentivizes property maintenance and new investments, leading to housing shortages.

Dr. Charles Steele (19:01): "Rent control prevents owners from maintaining properties and limits the availability of new housing, creating shortages instead of solving affordability."

Government-Run Grocery Stores: A Step Toward Socialism

The discussion shifts to the Democratic push for government-run grocery stores, which Dr. Steele argues mirrors Marxist ideology and leads to inefficiencies.

Charlie Kirk (25:51): "The Democratic message of government-run grocery stores sounds like Marxist ideology. What would the result of such an initiative be?"

Dr. Charles Steele (28:13): "Government grocery stores would result in low quality, poor service, and shortages because there's no profit incentive to maintain standards or control costs."

Capitalism vs. Socialism: The Foundational Debate

Dr. Steele underscores the importance of capitalism in fostering innovation and maintaining economic stability, contrasting it with the destructive nature of socialism.

Dr. Charles Steele (32:45): "Socialism promises a productive and peaceful society but actually brings authoritarianism, tyranny, and poverty. Capitalism, on the other hand, encourages investment, meritocratic success, and economic growth."

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Analyzing the Impact and Future Implications

11:22 - 26:15 | The Threat of Careerist Politicians

Stephen Miller, a notable conservative figure, weighs in on the episode, expressing concerns about careerists within the FBI and CIA who may fabricate evidence against political figures.

Stephen Miller (11:22): "If we allow FBI careerists and deep staters to fabricate evidence against their political enemies, there will never be accountability. There must be consequences."

Charlie Kirk agrees, highlighting the necessity of a solid legal case to avoid political distractions.

Charlie Kirk (25:23): "We need to focus on building a reliable case against John Brennan before considering indicting Obama to prevent creating unnecessary political turmoil."

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The Role of Alternative Media in Shaping Public Opinion

06:13 - 33:38 | The Influence of The Charlie Kirk Show in Alabama

Charlie Kirk presents empirical data from Signal Research, illustrating the significant reach of his show in Alabama, particularly among conservative voters.

Charlie Kirk: "Our program is the second largest news source for conservative voters in Alabama, demonstrating the power of alternative media in shaping public discourse."

He emphasizes the importance of independent media outlets in providing truthful and unfiltered information, contrasting them with mainstream corporate media.

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Conclusion

In this episode, The Charlie Kirk Show offers a robust examination of the ongoing "Obamagate" investigation, emphasizing the need for accountability while cautioning against potential political fallout. Dr. Charles Steele provides pivotal insights into the detrimental effects of rent control and government-run enterprises, advocating for free-market solutions as the cornerstone of a prosperous society. The discussion underscores the influential role of alternative media in mobilizing and informing conservative audiences, highlighting its critical position in America's political landscape.

As the episode wraps up, Charlie Kirk reinforces the importance of vigilance and continued advocacy for freedom and accountability, inviting listeners to engage further through his platforms.

Charlie Kirk (33:38): "Thank you so much for listening and God bless."

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Key Takeaways

• Obamagate Investigation: A significant legal effort to hold former President Obama and his associates accountable, though caution is advised to prevent political backlash.

• Economic Policies Critique: Rent control and government-run grocery stores are critiqued as ineffective measures that exacerbate shortages and economic instability.

• Capitalism vs. Socialism: Advocacy for capitalism as a means to foster innovation, investment, and economic growth, contrasting with the pitfalls of socialism.

• Alternative Media Influence: The substantial impact of The Charlie Kirk Show in shaping conservative viewpoints and providing an alternative narrative to mainstream media.

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Notable Quotes

• Charlie Kirk (00:43): "We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country."

• Donald Trump (06:16): "Pam is doing a great job. I have nothing to do with it. They deserve it."

• Dr. Charles Steele (19:01): "Rent control prevents owners of properties from being able to maintain them. It limits the amount of property that will be made available."

• Stephen Miller (11:22): "There must be consequences."

• Dr. Charles Steele (32:45): "Socialism promises those things, but it actually brings authoritarianism, tyranny. It divides people into the leaders and the serfs who must follow."

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the critical discussions and insights shared during the episode, providing a clear understanding for those who haven't listened to the full podcast.

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

Hey, everybody. Charlie Kirk here live from the Bitcoin.com studio. We discuss Russiagate. Why I don't think we should arrest Obama, even though he deserves it. Email us as always, freedomarliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast. We talk Mamdani economics and what is the greatest economic lie that college kids have coming into college? We unpack that with a professor, Dr. Steele from America's greatest college, Hillsdale College. Remember, take their free online courses at hillsdale. That's charlieforhillsdale.com charlieforhillsdale. Com Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

[Stephen Miller]

Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

[Charlie Kirk]

I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

[Stephen Miller]

Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

[Donald Trump]

I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.

[Charlie Kirk]

We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold [e-mail] that is noblegoldinvestments.com it's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegold investments.com breaking news. Pam Bondi has ordered a federal prosecutor not named currently to present evidence before a Florida grand jury to present at the case regarding Russia Gate. This is major news, everybody. Now let's take a step back. Many people in the audience are very skeptical that we will ever see accountability, but this is a very positive development. Time and time again, we've been promised accountability goes all the way back. Remember Benghazi? We spent over a year and a half to two years on Benghazi. Fugazi, Fugazi. Benghazi, Lagazi. What reminds me of the Wolf of Wall Street. Fugazi, Fugazi. We were promised justice for that. We are promised justice for the Hillary Clinton emails. We were promised justice for the people that lied about the Hunter Biden laptop. We are promised justice for the crimes that happened during COVID and the lockdowns, the vaccine mandates and the mask mandates and the corruption of our sciences. So just color me a little bit cautious here that I think immediately that we are going to get perp walks and indictments. But that is what we need. 51 intelligence officials under Joe Biden lied about the Hunter Biden laptop. Now, Pam Bodney ordering this federal prosecutor is a good step overall. We want to see less chatter, less memes, less talk on social media or tv. We want to see more action. If crimes did happen, investigate it, get the evidence and be serious about it. But hopefully the Department of Justice also understands all the risks here. Prosecuting a former president of Barack Obama didn't work great for the Democrats in 2024. So would prosecuting Obama be any better? He did win two elections. The Florida venue is a very ambitious scheme. They apparently want to prosecute Brennan or Obama because the Biden Department of Justice raided Mar A Lago six years ago after they left office. That could be seen as catering more to a very specific grievance of the base rather than narrowly looking at the crimes that they can prove. I would introduce some caution here about trying to indict Obama. Not, of course, I think he probably deserves it, but remember, Obama still remains very popular amongst the American people. You could potentially create a political martyr. Bren, on the other hand, however, I think indicting Brennan and Comey, who are the operators here, we want this case to be ironclad. If you indict them and this fails, it's worse than never even trying. So this needs to be a open and shut case. No reaches, no creativity. Because, for example, if you indict Barack Obama, which I admit he probably, he probably deserves it, he'll have the most unbelievable attorneys. It will be the number one news story of the Trump government going after Obama. Remember, Obama has presidential immunity to now, John Brennan does not. John Brennan does not have presidential immunity. James Comey does not have presidential immunity. So if we are serious about this, and I think we need to be, this in paneling of the grand jury is major news. It's significant. But understand, we have to measure twice and cut once and from all sources and from everyone we've talked to, Brennan seems to be the chief villain of the story. And Brennan is not a sympathetic figure. You look at the guy, he's got a nasty scowl face, he's constantly lying. He was a former communist. He's a bad person. Obama. I don't know if we want to take the Obama bait, even though he might deserve it, even if the evidence is pretty good in Obama's direction, he has presidential immunity. You could create a massive Democrat political martyr. But I'm open to hearing both sides of the debate on this. But it seems as if Brennan is was the hub of the conspiracy. He was the epicenter. Can we get that piece of tape, guys, Where Brennan, Comey and Hillary were all parroting the same lie. He was the fulcrum point of all things Russiagate. Now, what exactly were the crimes that were committed? Well, we don't know the specifics, but it was likely a grand and seditious conspiracy against the American people to thwart the sovereign of an election. This is President Donald Trump. He called into squawk box on this very topic. Play cut 351.

[Donald Trump]

The Justice Department now tapping a grand.

[Charlie Kirk]

Jury to look into the intelligence community's assessment of what was happening with Russia.

[Donald Trump]

Is that you have nothing to do with directing the Justice Department. No, I have nothing to do. Pam is doing a great job. I have nothing to do with it. I will tell you this. They deserve it. I was happy to hear it. I actually read it just like you did. I have nothing to do with it. But what they did in the election, what they did in even the last election, but it was too big to rig. But what they did in the 2020 election is grotesque.

[Charlie Kirk]

Now, mind you, even if President Trump did order his Attorney General to do this, that's perfectly constitutional, it's perfectly legal. The Attorney General acts at the behest of the President United States. But I understand that you want to keep some customs and something separate because you don't want to see this as a politically motivated thing. So I get that. But just so we are clear, and I get this question a lot on college campuses. Oh, well. Trump orders the Attorney General.

[Dr. Charles Steele]

He.

[Charlie Kirk]

He's allowed to. The Attorney general works for the President United States. But from all sources, Brennan seems to be the culprit. He is the center. He is the. He is the. The. He is the meeting point of the nervous system. He's the one where documents specifically show overriding the CIA's warnings to publish smears against President Trump. Brennan overrode all of the CIA objections, all of them to the Steele dossier being included in the new DNI assessment. John Brennan was the offensive coordinator of Russiagate. He was calling the plays up from the press box. He was the one that was choreographing and orchestrating all the movements. He was the one calling pass, run, slant out. He was in charge of all of the movements. This is a montage of James Comey, Brennan and Hillary. We went through this tape last week. It's very important, working up sequentially. But if I were to give my advice, whatever it's worth, I would go all in on John Brennan. Unless you have Obama so stone cold dead to rights, it could potentially be a narrative distraction beyond anything that we want. My opinion Brennan as based on everything we know publicly available and there will be information presented the grand jury that we do not have made available to us. But let's play cut 353 the Russians interfered in our election during the 2016 cycle. It is a high confidence judgment of the entire intelligence community. It was Russia in a very systematic way in tried to interfere in the election and to try to advance the prospects of Donald Trump being elected.

[John Brennan]

Donald Trump knows that the Russians helped him win in 2016. There will always be an air of illegitimacy around the 2016 campaign.

[Charlie Kirk]

That was John Brennan saying the Russians actively helped Donald. That was a naked lie on television. Now remember Tulsi mentioned whistleblowers coming out. I bet more whistleblowers from lower ranks will come forward. I don't necessarily think they'll go all the way up to Obama. But first build the case against Brennan. Build the case against John Brennan reliably, durably and then we go from there. I think Brennan and Comey are the actual worker bees on this entire coup. I want your thoughts. Freedomarliekirk.com do you think we should focus on Obama, Brennan or Comey? We're getting lots of different and I'm saying Obama likely deserves it, but you got to really have had the stone Cold case dead to rights. And if you don't, it could be worse than not even trying. It could derail a lot of the projects we have. Again, I don't know all the evidence, but I see definitely Brennan as the architect, the designer, the coordinator of this malevolent effort to undermine the US Constitution, popular sovereignty and President Donald Trump. Charlie Kirk here. We know that rates are still high and that they can make refinancing or purchasing feel out of reach. But markets can shift fast and when they do, I want you to be in the strike zone. So what is the strike zone? That's a sweet spot when rates dip just enough to meet your target goal, but it doesn't last long. Make sure you're ready to strike first and save big. At Sierra Pacific Mortgage, Andrew and Todd and their team will get you set up and keep you informed so you can strike at the right time. These are the guys I trust with 40 years of experience. They are really the experts and they make it easy because they keep everything in house. Get pre qualified today. Visit andrewandtod.com do it now to get a priority spot at the front of the line before the rest of the herd jumps in. And when the market enters the strike zone, you'll strike first and save big. Call 888-88-1172. That's 88. 88. 1172. Or online at andrewandtod.com that is andrewandtod.com they help me and they'll help you. Andrewandtod.com all right, let's play a piece of tape here. Let's go to Obamagate here. This is Stephen Miller 247.

[Stephen Miller]

If we have a country where we can continue to have FBI careerists and CIA careers, deep staters who will fabricate and doctor evidence, who will create and produce fake material, fabricated material, phony information to try to go after their political enemies up to and including the president, if we continue to create the impression and the reality that there is not a criminal, a severe criminal penalty for such conduct, it will never stop. It will never desist. It will keep on going forever. And we will continue to have a country that is sabotaged endlessly by the production of fake documents, fake material, fake plots against democratically elected officials. We can't have that. There must be consequences.

[Charlie Kirk]

I think Obama is the head of the snake, but I think we have to be prudent about this. Number one, we were very critical when we said former presidents have never been touched by the system of justice and he definitely deserves it. Definitely. Obama had done sneaky stuff his entire career. You can't trust that guy. Everyone in the audience agrees. But let's get Brennan first. Let's get the Brennan Clapper Comey triad going first right here. Email says, Charlie, I think you're right about charging Obama with the items he needs to be indicted for sure. There's nothing that prevents him from being an unindicted co conspirator. I just think we have to be very cautious on the Obama thing. He's already a super celebrity. Let's start on the bottom up, guys. Let's start on the bottom up and build that grand conspiracy. And then if we have it, then we, then we got Obama and we can indict him and put him in prison. Breaking news. FBI director Cash Patel has asked to help Texas authorities track down and arrest the Democrat lawmakers who fled the state to block a vote on redistricting. Very important piece of information there. Okay, let's put this up here from Alabama. I love this. This shows how people's information habits are amongst an Alabama gubernatorial primary. This is a Poll done by Signal. So this shows how are potential gubernatorial voters getting their information on the conservative side? Well, number one, no surprise is Fox News. 59% get their news from Fox News. We love Fox. I was able to host Fox and Friends weekend. Tons of friends there. They've been phenomenal. But number two is this program, the Charlie Kirk Show. This is real empirical data done by Signal research. Cygnal says Charlie Kirk show or Turning Point USA is the second largest news source for, I think all voters in Alabama. And Blake has analyzed this really good demographics across the board. We have tons of women both old and young and right there, Tucker Carlson is basically within the average of us. So it's like Charlie Kirk, Tucker Carlson right there and then Newsmax, Daily Wire, the Blaze, Megyn Kelly, Candace Owens, all great friends of mine. Just goes to show the power of alternative media. And it shows that what we have been able to create on this program is a viral mover of where people look at for primary information. So someone sent that to me earlier. I was like, Andrew, we got to show this on screen. And the right now we're a little less popular with Catholics. It's not a huge surprise though. It's probably a small sample size in Alabama. I love Catholics. We have fun debates. But I definitely love Catholics and I love Catholicism. But it goes to show what we do on this program is different, it is unique and it is working. So it is the second largest and it is the largest non. Our program is the largest non corporate media source or non cable driven media source we call balls and strikes, as you know. And you guys keep on tuning in. Our podcast keeps doing well because we call it as it is here on the program and we are truth seekers. It is the largest independent media source amongst Alabama voters. Again, I wonder how applicable that is to other states. But you guys tune in for a reason and it means a lot. And I want to thank you in the audience and we listen to you. Literally. I'm reading these emails right now. Obama, Brannon, all that. I, I always have my laptop up for this reason because you guys can reach me immediately. And people say, charlie, what's your secret sauce? I say, look, I learned one thing from Rush Limbaugh. The great Rush Limbaugh always had his laptop up. Now it was a Mac desktop and he was reading emails in the breaks. I do that every break. What is the audience feeling? What are you guys saying? And it's not. Oh, I mean, sometimes I think you guys send me stuff where you might be incorrect. But I want to know the vibe, I want to know the aura, I want to know the direction and I definitely want to know your feedback on the top issues. It means a lot. So thank you guys. It's a phenomenal piece of data that is real empirical data that shows the success, that shows the velocity, that shows the increase of what we are able to be able to get done here on this program. And at Turning Point usa, you have a lot of choices for cell phone service with new ones popping up all the time. But here's the truth. There's only one that boldly stands in the gap for every American that believes that freedom is worth fighting for. And that is Patriot Mobile. The good news that you can switch to Patriot Mobile today without sacrificing quality or service. Are you worried about coverage? Well, don't, because Patriot Mobile uses all three major US Networks. If you have service in America today, you'll have as good or better coverage with Patriot Mobile. Think switching is a hassle? It's not. You can keep your number, keep your phone or Upgrade. Patriot Mobile's 100% US based customer service team will get you activated in minutes from the comfort of your home, stuck in a contract or owe money on your phone. No worries. Patriot Mobile has a contract buyout program. This is how we win, folks, by aligning our spending with our values. Every dollar we spend matters. Go to patriotmobile.com charlie or call 972 Patriot, use promo code CHARLIE and get a free month of service switch today. That's patriotmobile.com Charlie. Joining us now is Dr. Charles Steele, Director of the Hutchinson center for Commerce and Freedom and the associate professor of economics at America's greatest College, Hillsdale College. Dr. Steele, great to see you. Thank you so much for taking the time. Dr. Steele, you are also the one that did the Understanding Capitalism course, which is wonderful that people should check [e-mail] Dr. Steele, I want to talk to you about Mamdani. Let's just address one of his, one of his ideas. Why would freezing the rent and having government run grocery stores in New York City be a bad economic idea?

[Dr. Charles Steele]

Dr. Steele, well, thank you very much for the kind words about Hillsdale. We are striving to be the best college in the world and we're going to do that. We may be there now. So this is an excellent question. I think people really need to understand what socialism is and how it works. Really it doesn't work. And understand the importance of capitalism and the free enterprise system. So you're asking about rent control Rent control prevents owners of properties from being able to maintain them. It limits the amount of property that will be made available. It stops building and it creates shortages. That's also true of any kind of price controls that hold prices down, attempt to hold prices down. They don't actually do that. They simply create shortages and then the property will be allocated in some other way. Grocery stores, government grocery stores. I lived in the former Soviet Union. I also lived in communist China for a short time. And I've been in other, other places where they have government controls on these sorts of things. And if you like shortages and standing in lines and not enough eat, then government grocery stores are the way to go. That's the quick answer.

[Charlie Kirk]

So, Dr. Steele, let's zero in on the rent control. It's actually so there are tens of thousands of vacant apartments in New York City right now where he is running. And they do not get improved upon and they do not have significant upgrades because of rent control. The cities with the most rent control in the United States, without exception, have the highest average housing prices. New York city, San Francisco, D.C. and they've had the controls for a long period of time. And so speak more about this. The direct connection between rent controls and freezing the rent and housing prices increasing. It actually hurts the very problem that they are seeking to solve.

[Dr. Charles Steele]

Sure. Why would anyone want to invest money? Why would you want to build apartments if you're not going to be able to charge a, an amount that allows you to recover your costs? And so there's the first problem. There's no point in investing in something where there's no possible return on it. And I mean, it's going to be important that we, that we talk a little bit about capitalism and about profit and why that's important, why that's a valuable thing. But just as a, just, just as a starting point, if you can't recover your cost, you're not going to invest something. People will not invest in building new housing if there's, if they're simply going to take a loss on it. And that's what the rent controls do. It's interesting that after the Vietnam War, after the United States had left Vietnam and North Vietnam conquered South Vietnam, one of the Vietnamese, North Vietnamese finance ministers said, we managed to do to housing in Hanoi what the Americans could not do by bombing. We destroyed it. And we destroyed it with rent controls. That's what rent controls do.

[Charlie Kirk]

And so I know that you're a professor of economics, but it's an irresistible call, the tempest temptation of rent control. Why is it that we're not able to shut ourselves of the political attraction to the allure of rent control despite its tragic and catastrophic failure?

[Dr. Charles Steele]

So Mr. Mandani just recently met with Elizabeth Warren and Warren has endorsed him. Senator Warren. And she put it this way. She said that we need affordability. And what's attractive is they say we'll hold prices down. If we hold prices down, it's more affordable, right? Well, actually not. So what you actually do is constrain supply. With less supply, it's less available. The product, whatever is, whatever commodity we're talking about, in this case housing, will be in less supply and therefore be allocated to a number of across people. Across, across the people attempting to get it via some other method, whether it is waiting in line, bribery, special favors, something like this. But there will also be shortages, inevitably. With a system like that, it's attractive because we say, because the politician will say, we're going to give you something for free. We're going to use something that's cheap. It'll be, you know, we're affordable. It won't be available, but boy, the price will be low and that's that. Low price is what no one will have it.

[Charlie Kirk]

But it will be a very low price. Yeah, there'll be no abundance, but it won't cost very much. And so the political realities, it's so hard and frustrating because our job as conservatives or free market people, we have to defend a system that is not about free stuff. It's about earned success, it's about meritocratic ascension, it is about investment, it is about delayed gratification. But the truth is that people's frustrations are real. And so, so Dr. Steele, there are real economic problems in New York, There are real economic problems in Boston. What would a free market, capitalist market based solution look like? Not the mom daddy garbage. What would you say are two or three things that these cities can do to fix housing, cost of living, transportation? Our population is getting crushed by the affordability crisis. Dr. Steele, what would be one or two proven free market ways that we can address these problems?

[Dr. Charles Steele]

In particular for housing, we have various kinds of controls that zoning laws and things like this that actually people from building all sorts of restricting building codes, permitting processes and things like this. In California, for example, it is nearly impossible to build any kind of reasonable housing because of the regulatory systems. New York City, New York City of course is a bit of a different situation because New York is a constrained area. You think about Manhattan, it is largely built up, but it is very difficult to upgrade, to build anything new and to, to develop, to, to further develop property that one owns. This is why you have parts of New York City which are basically just slums and have been left abandoned because it won't. Nobody can afford to put anything into them to build them. So one of the first things I would do is get rid of the housing regulations and the building regulations. Various kinds of environmental rules also which don't actually help the environment but do block any kind of development. That would be the first thing you could do and it would make a, make a great deal of difference. Another thing would be to just decontrol prices. That's a big deal. And certainly in New York City we have rent, they have rent controls. It's interesting, a nice example of this. But I did my PhD at New York University. So I lived in New York City for four years and some of my of my friends who went on, finished their doctoral degrees and went on to the World bank and the imf, they had rent controlled apartments. I believe they still have them. Once you have a rent controlled apartment, it is. Yep, it's a, it's a. Can't get rid of something to happen. So these are wealthy people, friends. That's right, friends of mine, nice people. But boy, you don't want to get rid of your, you don't want to get rid of those things. No.

[Charlie Kirk]

In la. In la, that's exactly right. That's right. Once you have them it's, it's a luxury item that you do not want to get rid of. And in la you get a rent control apartment. Some of these people are making 2, 3, 4, $500,000 a year in a rent controlled apartment. And they just, you know, they say oh you know, we're not giving that up. Let's play a piece of tape here. Let's go. I want you to respond to the democratic message of government run grocery stores.

[John Brennan]

319 when someone stands up and says I will lead this city by making it more affordable. And here are my plans, real plans. Plans to deliver on child care, plans to deliver on housing. Plans to deliver an experiment. We're going to try things on groceries. That is the democratic message.

[Charlie Kirk]

That is the democratic message. And this sounds like Marxist ideology and the grocery store thing. So let's say that there are city run groceries. What would the result of that be? I know you touched on it earlier but let's go deeper.

[Dr. Charles Steele]

Well, it's interesting that Elizabeth Warren says we're going, they want to run experiments. These experiments have been run in The Soviet Union and other communist countries and they're not going to do get a different result here when they try this. What are the results of a government run grocery store? First of all, low quality, poor service and shortages. And that's, that's. You get that because first of all, and this is a really important point, under capitalism it's important to make a profit. That's what keeps you in business. If you don't make a profit, then you're taking losses and your operations are shut down. But what's a profit? What does that mean? What it means is you are create, you're taking resources inputs and you're creating something that was more valuable to consumers than you started with. And the difference is profit. And that's a good thing. That's a sign that you have created value. Yes, you have an incentive to hold costs down and to provide quality. Now under a socialist system or a government system there's no incentive to control costs. And in a government supermarket, government grocery store. No, no incentive, no, no price signal it's going to. You don't have a profit and loss signal. So no incentive to. No incentive to keep cost down. But at the same time quality doesn't matter because it's a government store. They don't need to earn a profit so they just do whatever is convenient for the people working there, managing. Thus you get under a socialist system, core quality and shortages. And that's what a government grocery store system would give you.

[Charlie Kirk]

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[Dr. Charles Steele]

Yes, Venezuela. Hugo Chavez, the communist who became dictator of Venezuela, imposed price controls on groceries and all, every, everything in supermarkets. Shortages necessarily developed then because if you can't cover the cost of the goods, they're not going to be on the shelves. He then used that when the shortages emerged as an excuse to nationalize the grocery stores, take them over. And it was really a plan that he had just simply to nationalize things, simply by saying that the supermarkets, the grocery stores were not doing their. Were not doing their job. So he created the shortages, then he confiscated the property, became as, as some might say, appropriating the means of production, which is something, of course, that Zohan Mandani has called for. And then you have a socialist system and you have chronic shortages. The consequences for Venezuela were studded growth, malnutrition in children that cannot be corrected, permanent damage to children from starvation and from famine. That's what socialism does. And that's the result that you get in anytime, anytime you use that kind of a system. Hopefully it wouldn't be so bad if they pulled something like this in New York City because we still have a free enterprise system elsewhere. But it's a dangerous thing and people need to understand how destructive socialism is. And it really is destructive.

[Charlie Kirk]

So, professor, you are a phenomenal teacher. Dr. Arn has entrusted you with a course. Hillsdale College, two minutes remaining. What would you say is the greatest economic myth or stumbling block that you have to deprogram or confront of students that you come at Hillsdale College, something that they believe that is not true, that you have to correct early on.

[Dr. Charles Steele]

Dr. Steele, I will tell you, yes, two things. Number one, people have a tendency to think in terms of class warfare. Even conservatives and Christians will sometimes think this, that necessarily there's conflict between capital and labor. Capital and labor are actually inputs and workers. And people who employ them actually are engaged in mutually beneficial exchange. And getting the idea of class conflict out of people's heads can be very difficult, maybe even a bigger point. Although with Hillsdale students, they catch on quickly. Profit. Profit is a great thing. Profit is an incentive to serve your fellow man. Provide goods and services that people want and need and willing to pay for and to do it at a cost that cost effectively so you avoid waste. A system like the Soviet system is incredibly wasteful and generated goods and services that people didn't want. If you want to have a society that is productive, if people are going to have productive and rewarding lives and flourish, if we want to protect the environment, if we want a free and peaceful society, we need capitalism. Socialism promises those things, but it actually brings authoritarianism, tyranny. It divides people into the leaders and the serfs who must follow. And it's a destruction, tyranny and poverty result. So people need to understand the importance of capitalism and why it works.

[Charlie Kirk]

Dr. Steele, you're welcome back anytime. We need to talk more about capitalism. We need to talk more about markets. We need to talk more about what makes a what makes the economy tick. And it's private property. It is profits. It is production. Dr. Steele, from the greatest college in the world, Hillsdale College, thank you so much.

[Dr. Charles Steele]

Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

[Charlie Kirk]

Terrific conversation. We got to have him back on. So important. We can't lose sight of that. Email us. As always, freedom charlie kirk.com Very interesting. New Gallup poll shows Bobby Kennedy is the administration's most popular administration figure. We've been saying that on this program. We said that RFK and the Maha movement is the most coherent movement that has sustained throughout maga. Very interesting. I just saw that on cnn. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us. As always, freedomarliekirk.com thanks so much for listening and God bless.

[Dr. Charles Steele]

For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.