The Real History of Tariffs

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Real History of Tariffs

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Charlie Kirk Show
• Host: Charlie Kirk
• Description: Charlie Kirk, founder of Turning Point USA and a prominent grassroots activist, provides insightful analysis on current events from a conservative viewpoint. Engaging with a vast network of students across numerous campuses, Charlie delves into America's cultural and political landscape, offering clarity amidst chaos.
• Episode: The Real History of Tariffs
• Release Date: April 8, 2025

---

Introduction

In the April 8, 2025 episode of The Charlie Kirk Show, host Charlie Kirk (represented by Andrew Colvitt in his absence) delves deep into the intricate world of tariffs, their historical significance, and their impact on today's economy. The episode features an insightful discussion with John Carney from Breitbart, a renowned tariff expert, who unpacks the current tariff strategies employed by the Trump administration and draws parallels with historical tariff policies.

Market Rebound Amid Tariff News

The episode begins with Andrew Colvitt addressing the recent fluctuations in the stock market. After a tumultuous weekend marked by fears of economic downturn—referred to as "the sky is falling" scenario—the markets show a significant rebound:

• Dow Jones: Up by approximately 1,000 points
• Nasdaq: Up by 400 points
• S&P 500: Up by 123 points

Colvitt attributes this shift to the latest developments in tariff policies and their implications on global trade.

Trump's Tariff Strategy and Negotiating Leverage

A central theme of the episode revolves around President Trump's aggressive tariff strategies aimed at renegotiating trade deals and reducing trade deficits. Secretary of Treasury Scott Besant highlights that President Trump has "afforded himself maximum negotiating leverage," signaling a robust stance against trade partners like China.

Notable Quote:

• Scott Besant [03:27]: "President Trump has maximum negotiating leverage right here, right now. I think it was a big mistake, this Chinese escalation because they're playing with a pair of twos."

Colvitt elaborates on this by explaining that China exports significantly more to the U.S. than it imports, with a ratio of approximately 5:1. Consequently, any increase in tariffs disproportionately affects China more than the U.S. Additionally, China's economy is described as a "house of cards," vulnerable due to oversupply and reliance on exports to sustain its market.

Historical Context: Smoot-Hawley Act and Reagan's Trade Policies

To provide a comprehensive understanding, the episode delves into historical tariff policies, drawing comparisons between the Smoot-Hawley Act of the 1930s and the trade strategies during Ronald Reagan's presidency.

Smoot-Hawley Act:

• John Carney [25:42]: "Smoot-Hawley definitely did not cause the Great Depression. Great Depression was caused by misguided monetary and fiscal policies, but not by a tariff on imports."

Carney argues that the Great Depression was primarily due to poor monetary and fiscal decisions rather than solely the imposition of tariffs. He contends that the global trend towards protectionism was already underway, and Smoot-Hawley was merely a part of that movement rather than its primary cause.

Reagan's Trade Policies:

• Contrary to the common perception of Reagan as a free trader, Carney points out that Reagan implemented protectionist measures, such as imposing quotas on Japanese automobile imports. This strategy was aimed at protecting the U.S. auto industry from what was perceived as predatory practices by Japanese manufacturers.

Current Trade Negotiations and Global Responses

John Carney provides an update on the international response to the U.S. tariff policies. Approximately 50 to 70 countries have approached the U.S. to negotiate trade deals, including key players like Japan, South Korea, and Italy. This surge indicates a willingness among trade partners to negotiate rather than escalate into full-blown trade wars.

Notable Quote:

• John Carney [16:05]: "The rest of the world is not acting as the tariff critics said they would, which was trade war. We are going to, you know, just fight. We refuse to give in."

This optimism is further reinforced by the fact that many countries seek to preserve their access to the vast American consumer market, which remains a crucial economic resource globally.

Art Laffer's Perspective on Trade Policy

The episode references a Wall Street Journal op-ed by economist Art Laffer, who reflects on a 2018 G7 meeting. During this meeting, President Trump proposed eliminating all trade barriers to achieve free trade among the G7 nations. However, the proposal was met with resistance from various countries, highlighting the challenges in achieving truly free trade.

Notable Quote:

• John Carney [18:14]: "I believe that you raised the idea of a tariff free G7... That's the way it should be. No tariffs, no barriers. ... That's the way you learned at the Wharton School of Finance."

Laffer’s critique points out the hypocrisy of trade partners who advocate for free trade while maintaining their own trade barriers and subsidies, thereby undermining the very essence of free trade agreements.

Evaluating Trump's Brinksmanship and Future Trade Directions

The discussion shifts to assessing whether Trump's approach is consistent with his original 2018 strategy or if it has evolved into a more nuanced stance on tariffs and trade barriers.

Notable Insights:

• John Carney [27:15]: "The reciprocal tariffs on most countries will come way down because they want access to the U.S. markets... This is a new chapter of history."

Carney posits that Trump's unwavering stance on tariffs signifies a strategic move to enforce fair trade practices, ensuring that trade agreements are mutually beneficial. He emphasizes that while the U.S. continues to decouple economically from China, it seeks to establish free trade with other nations by removing non-tariff barriers and subsidies that distort free market dynamics.

Conclusion: The Path Forward

As the episode draws to a close, John Carney offers a vision for the future of U.S. trade policy:

• Universal 10% Tariff: Functioning as a revenue-generating measure and a standardized tax to enter the U.S. market.
• Decoupling from China: Encouraging a transition away from reliance on Chinese manufacturing unless significant political changes occur.
• Free Trade with Others: Promoting reciprocal trade agreements that eliminate tariffs and non-tariff barriers, ensuring a level playing field.

Carney asserts that the current tariff strategy is a definitive break from past one-sided trade deals, advocating for a balanced and equitable approach to international trade.

Final Quote:

• John Carney [30:55]: "This is a page that has been turned. We are in a new chapter of history."

---

Key Takeaways:

• The Trump administration's tariff policies are strategically aimed at renegotiating trade deals to create a more balanced global trade environment.
• Historical tariff policies like Smoot-Hawley and Reagan's quotas offer lessons but are not direct parallels to the current situation.
• The global response indicates a willingness among trade partners to negotiate, avoiding the feared trade wars.
• Future trade policies will likely focus on maintaining the U.S. as a central economic hub while promoting fair and reciprocal trade agreements.

Notable Quotes:

• Scott Besant [03:27]: "President Trump has maximum negotiating leverage right here, right now..."
• John Carney [16:05]: "The rest of the world is not acting as the tariff critics said they would, which was trade war..."
• John Carney [27:15]: "Smoot-Hawley definitely did not cause the Great Depression..."
• John Carney [30:55]: "This is a page that has been turned. We are in a new chapter of history."

For more detailed discussions and updates on economic policies, visit charliekirk.com.

Transcript

[Andrew Colvitt]

Hey, everybody. Andrew Colvitt in for the one and only Charlie Kirk, who is out on assignment. He's in Illinois at another campus. Stop. Our biggest one yet. He'll have more for you tomorrow. In the meantime, we got lots of tariff news. The markets rebound. What's causing that? What's behind it. And then we bring on John Carney from Breitbart who is the tariff [e-mail] you should check him out. We talk about what ultimately is the president's goal here. And then we, we talk about Smoot Hawley in the 1930s and Reagan and Prot. Does it work or does it not work? Very fascinating conversation. If this show means something to you, please consider becoming a monthly [e-mail] members.charliekirk.Com you help keep the lights on for us and you get a lot of extra exclusive access to the show, merch events and so much more. That's members.charliekirk.com Buckle up. Here we go.

[Charlie Kirk]

Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

[Andrew Colvitt]

Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are.

[John Carney]

Lucky to have have Charlie Kirk.

[Andrew Colvitt]

Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

[Scott Besant]

I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy, his spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.

[Charlie Kirk]

We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold [e-mail] that is noblegoldinvestments.com it's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegoldinvestments.com.

[Andrew Colvitt]

All right. Welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show. Andrew Colvett in for Charlie Kirk, who's on assignment today. We have lots of updates from yesterday. What a difference a day makes. That is the theme of I think this beginning part of our show here. What a difference a day makes over the weekend. I mentioned this yesterday that it was the sky is falling. It was the chicken Little folks. Everything was awful on Sunday night. I was a part of a bunch of different text message chains that were all about how everything was awful, everything was terrible and we were going to be heading into economic calamity and yesterday got off to a really rough start. It was a volatile day. There's no doubt about it. Currently, however, we are up across the indices and that is quite the change from yesterday. We are up about a thousand points on the Dow, 400 points on the Nasdaq and 123 points on the S&P 500. So the sky is not falling. We're not out of the woods yet. There's no doubt about it. But there is reason for real optimism, real optimism. We're going to play some of these clips that show what a difference a day makes. Now, I want to start with something that Secretary of Treasury Scott Besant said yesterday. He said, here's the key. President Trump has given himself afforded himself maximum leverage, maximum negotiating leverage. And this is key and I'm going to explain it after the clip.

[Larry Kudlow]

148 President Trump has maximum negotiating leverage right here, right now. I think it was a big mistake, this Chinese escalation because they're playing with a pair of twos. Traditionally, if you, if you, if you look, if you look at the history the, of the trade negotiations, the we, we are the deficit country. So what do we lose by the Chinese raising tariffs on us that we, we export 1/5 to them of what they export to us. So that, that is a losing hand for them.

[Andrew Colvitt]

Said he's playing, they're playing with a pair of twos now. What does he mean by that? Scott Besson is saying that China is exporting so much to us, we're only exporting 1/5 to them. So if they raise tariffs on us, it hurts us about 1/5 as much as it hurts them. The other piece of that puzzle is that China is playing with a house of cards. We often call them that. Their, their economy is kind of like a paper tiger. It is weaker than, than the world would have, than what they would have the world believe. And why is that? Because it's a top down economy. They are, they are rife with oversupply in their economy, meaning they'll build buildings for all of these renters or buyers and they sit at 20%, 30% occupancy. And when you run an economy like that, you're prone to having vulnerabilities. And one of their main vulnerabilities is that they are an export economy. They have to export to the biggest market in the world, namely America, in order to survive and thrive. They're not able to do that if they've got 104% tariffs slapped on them from the United States. So we are playing with the upper hand. President Trump knows that he has leverage and he is exerting that force with vicious cruelty on the Chinese who have exerted their force on us with vicious cruelty for years and years and years. And he's getting the leverage back. That's what this is about.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here. The numbers don't lie. The impact that Balance of Nature makes every single day is astounding. You can see the numbers for yourself on their [e-mail] listen to these stats concerning Balance of Nature's worldwide success. More than a thousand success stores reported each month, hundreds of thousands of customers worldwide, millions of orders delivered each year, and billions, yes, billions of fruits and veggie supplements consumed by people who have decided to start living better. There's only one thing missing, and that is you do what I did and add yourself to these numbers and start taking Balance of Nature's whole food supplements like so many others around the world. Here's another number that should get your attention. 35%. Use my discount code Charlie to get 35% off plus free shipping and their money back guarantee. You must use my discount code Charlie. Call them at 800-246-8751 and use discount code Charlie or order online at balance of nature.com use discount code charlie to get 35% off plus free shipping. That is balance of nature.com balance of nature.com.

[Andrew Colvitt]

There'S some breaking news that hit that Donald Trump, President Trump, the Trump administration has just won another Supreme Court case against these rogue activist judges. This time he, they affirm his authority to fire probationary workers. So this is, this affects like 15, 16,000 different firings that have happened that were held up in the courts. So we've got Mike Davis, Article 3 project joining us later. This is just stringing together common sense, Article 2 Powers of the presidency with the authority to actually run the country as the founders saw fit. They saw an energetic executive that was able to move quickly and respond to crises and not always be held up by the whims of the courts or the legislator. So legislature. So there are obviously places in the Constitution that in authorities that are vested in the president and then put in the legislature. But this has gone on for far too long in Trump's presidency where they're using judicial, judicial activism in order to thwart his agenda and the mandate given to him by the people. So this is a big win. We're going to dive into this even more. But I want to get back just quickly here. And we've got John Carney from Breitbart, who we're going to go into all this tariff stuff, but this is brinksmanship. President Trump is using brinksmanship at a level we have not seen in a long time to bring our trading partners who have been abusing us back to the table. So let's continue on one more clip from Scott Bessen here. Play cut 160.

[Larry Kudlow]

Larry, I can tell you that there are 50, 60, maybe almost 70 countries now who have approached us. It's going to be a busy April, May, maybe into June. And Japan is a very important military ally, they're very important economic ally and the US Has a lot of history with them. So I would expect that Japan's going to get priority just because they came forward very quickly, but it's going to be very busy. And President Trump again gave himself maximum negotiating leverage. And just when he achieved the maximum.

[Andrew Colvitt]

Leverage, he's willing to start talking maximum leverage. 50, 60, 70 different countries that have come to the table, including Japan, including this morning new news on South Korea. President Trump at a truth social about that. This is exactly why you're seeing the markets react. You're seeing the markets react because they believe that President Trump is going to revert back to deal making posture. Okay? And this, this is what the entire international financial community is, is hoping for and waiting for. Now I want to caution everybody, I'm not convinced that President Trump is ready to make a deal. For example, 0 for 0 tariff deal. And now let me explain why. Because there are actually the lion's share of unfair trade practices that exist between countries is not about tariffs. Tariffs are an important piece of that certainly. But the lion's share of those practices that are unfair cheating would be currency manipulation, would be other trade barriers would be dumping product. There is much to discuss in this way. And this is, this is fascinating. So Art Laffer is a famous economist from the Reagan era. He goes on Fox all the time. He's a friend of Charlie, famous for the Laffer Curve. The Laffer Curve is basically a place where you could lower taxes to a certain point where you hit an optimal rate and at that optimal rate that you would increase the tax revenue coming into the Treasury. Right. So that's a counterintuitive for most people because you think if you just keep raising taxes you'd make more revenue for the, for the treasury and for the country. Well, that's not true. According to the Laffer Curve, at some point you can actually go lower. You'll spur production in the economy which will actually Increase revenues. We saw this with the Trump tax cuts in 2017. Eventually, we had record revenues going into the treasury because of that. So Art Laffer wrote a Wall Street Journal piece and he referenced this clip, and it came from the 2018 meeting where Trump threw the gauntlet down on the table and he said, hey, if you guys reduce all your trade barriers, we'll do the same. So play cut. 162. Good pool, Ryan. 162.

[Charlie Kirk]

I believe that you raised the idea of a tariff free G7.

[Andrew Colvitt]

I did.

[Scott Besant]

Oh, I did. That's the way it should be. No tariffs, no barriers. That would. That's the way it should be. And no subsidies. I even said no tariffs. Ultimately, that's what you want. You want a tariff free. You want no barriers, and you want no subsidies because you have some cases where countries are subsidizing industries, and that's not fair. So you go tariff free, you go barrier free, you go subsidy free. That's the way you learned at the Wharton School of Finance.

[Andrew Colvitt]

Is this where we're headed?

[Charlie Kirk]

Hey, Charlie, Kirk here. Ever see your dog slowing down or having health issues and wonder, what can I do to make them better? Well, my friend, add Ruffgreens to your dog's food for 90 days and you'll see changes that will amaze you. Guaranteed. Invented by naturopathic doctor Dennis Black, ruffgreens wants to invite you and give your pup the Ruff Greens 90 day challenge. In the first 30 days, you'll see shinier coats and increased energy. By day 60, your dog will have a stronger immune system, less shedding, and improved joint function, all due to live nutrients you've added to their diet. And at 90 days, better digestion, reduced inflammation, improved heart health, and you might even have reduced their cancer risk. Fetch a free Jump Start trial bag for your dog today. Go to ruffgreens.com. just use promo code Charlie. That is ruffgreens.com promo code Charlie. And just cover shipping. You don't have to change your dog's food to improve your dog's health. Just add a scoop of Ruff Greens. That is ruffgreens.com.

[Andrew Colvitt]

Without further ado. Like I said, I'm so excited to bring in my next guest. That's John Carney from Breitbart. He is the finance and economics [e-mail] John Carney, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us.

[John Carney]

Hi. Thanks for having me.

[Andrew Colvitt]

John. You, you know, Alex Marlowe is a good friend and he raves about you when it Comes to tariffs. I mean, he's been said, you gotta get John on. You gotta get John on. You know, there's been so much news made in the last two days. Sum it up for our audience as best you can. We were down yesterday. It was a volatile day today. I think there's still some volatility in the markets, but we're up. What is going on? Why are we up? Break it down.

[John Carney]

Yeah. So one of the things that happened last week was that Trump announced tariffs that were much higher than people expected and much more comprehensive. If you asked Wall street where Trump was likely to go on tariffs, they thought he was going to come up with a handful of countries, maybe the worst actors, the top 15, I heard people say, the hateful eight, and tariff them. And maybe they thought their tariffs were going to be at lower rates. So Trump surprised the market with much higher tariffs and much more comprehensive, basically the whole world. And he. A lot of people weren't sure whether he was going to do reciprocal tariffs or just a 20% tariff on everything. And he kind of cut the middle. He did a 10% tariff on everybody. And he did what they. What they're calling like a habsy reciprocal tariff, where we're not tariffing them at the full extent of their trade deficits, but we're doing about half. So the market freaked out. People didn't like it. One thing I've told a lot of people, though, is, look, the market going down doesn't mean your policy is wrong. The market often goes down when the. When something unexpected happens, and it can be the right policy. When the Fed raises interest rates as a surprise to the market, a lot of times the market falls, stocks go down. When Jerome Powell gave his famous speech in Jackson Hole two years ago when he said maybe it was three now, time flies. But when he said we're going to inflict pain on the economy in order to get inflation down, stocks plummeted and they fell for days afterwards. And whenever the Fed sounded more hawkish, stocks went down even further. Did that mean it was a mistake to get rid of inflation? No. We absolutely needed to tighten monetary policy. So here I would say the same thing. This was a policy we needed. We need to reorient to reset global trading. The stock market didn't like it, but they often don't like the correct policy. Today, what we're seeing with this surge in the market, it was, at least when I looked earlier, it was up something like the most since 2022, a huge recovery. One of the reasons for this is that the rest of the world is not acting as the tariff critics said they would, which was trade war. We are going to, you know, just fight. We refuse to give in.

[Andrew Colvitt]

No.

[John Carney]

In fact, the rest of the world wants to preserve their access to the greatest economic resource ever existed on earth, and that is the American consumer. So they want to preserve their access. They're coming to us and saying, what do we need to do to do that? So a lot of those reciprocal tariffs, not the 10% universal tariff, but the reciprocal tariffs will be able to come down. If these countries are serious about reducing their trade deficits, they'll come down. And I think the stock market is. This is a relief rally that the rest of the world is acting rationally rather than just trade war. Let's put the world into a Great Depression. That never made much sense to me. If a trade war would be as bad as people thought, why would the rest of the world do that? Why wouldn't they respond rationally to our tariffs? And it seems like I was right. That's what they're doing, responding rationally.

[Andrew Colvitt]

Yeah. You kind of saw this from the EU yesterday when they said, listen, we're willing to do a zero for zero tariff. We're willing to make a good deal. Europe was trying to say that, you know, listen, we're, we're the good guys here. You guys are being crazy, but we're gonna make a good deal. I, I played this, I played this clip earlier, John, but I think it, it bears repeating. I, I saw this referenced in a Wall Street Journal op ed by Art Laugher came out yesterday. And it was, it's from the G7 meeting in Canada in 2018. And Trump is sitting there in front of all the trading partners saying, hey, why don't we get rid of all our trade barriers? Let's just do it. And you know, Art Laffer's take is that it exposed the, the hypocrisy of our trading partners because from Brussels to Beijing, they were all running out the door saying, no, no, no, no, no, no. What are you talking about? They didn't want anything to do with this. But this is Trump, basically, I think an echo from the past of saying, hey, guys, why don't we get to this place? Because it's not just about tariffs. It's about currency manipulations, about dumping. It's about blocking whole industries from your market. And tariffs, of course. So let's go ahead and play this and get your reaction to it. 162.

[Charlie Kirk]

I believe that you raised the idea of a tariff free G7 is that.

[Andrew Colvitt]

I did.

[Scott Besant]

Oh, I did. That's the way it should be. No tariffs, no barriers. That would. That's the way it should be. And no subsidies. I even said no tariffs. Ultimately, that's what you want. You want a tariff free, you want no barriers and you want no subsidies because you have some cases where countries are subsidizing industries and that's not fair. So you go tariff free, you go barrier free, you go subsidy free. That's the way you learned at the Wharton School of Finance.

[Andrew Colvitt]

John, do you think that Trump 2018 is still Trump 2025 is. I mean, is this still his North Star or was this, was this brinksmanship knowing that they would never agree to it and he actually secretly wants to keep a certain amount of protectionism in place in America?

[John Carney]

No, I think Donald Trump actually has a lot of faith in the ability of American businesses to compete when the level, when the playing field is a level. He really does look at the reciprocal tariffs, at least as a temporary thing to try to force the rest of the world to live up to their free trade rhetoric. Right. Whenever we raise tariffs, they say, oh, no, no, you know, non, non, you know, please don't raise the tariffs, that's not fair. But they won't lower their own. And important thing he said in that clip is, and you mentioned it's not just tariffs, it's all of the non tariff barriers to a level playing field. We need to address those. And I'm a little suspicious the Europeans said, oh, we'll go to zero tariffs on industrial products. What do they mean by industrial products? Does that include cars? It's not clear to me. It does. What do they mean and are they willing to get rid of the non tariff barriers? Because if they're not, it really won't help much to just get rid of the tariffs. In fact, their tariffs are so bad that if we impose their non tariff barriers are so bad that if we impose those on them, they couldn't sell anything. Here we have been a country that was the consumer of last resort for the entire world. The entire continent of Europe runs a giant trade surplus against the US Meaning we sell them a lot less than we buy from them. That was intentional. For a long time we wanted Europe to become a rich partner in the free world. We wanted to defeat communism. We wanted them to join us as a powerful economy to basically set the war to make the entire world richer. Well, that worked. Our policy worked out. So what this is in many ways is us declaring Victory saying, guys, we did it, you're rich. Now let's have a level playing field. You don't need unequal access to US Markets. If you open your markets, our markets will stay open to you. And if you will not do that, if you continue to run these giant trade deficits, then we are going to start to have very high tariffs on what you're doing. Because the age of one sided trade agreements is over. And I think that's even though people are freaking out about Donald Trump. I think that's true. I don't think we're ever going back to the one sided trade deals that we had. I think this is the way forward and I think that's frankly why Europe and everybody else is coming forward now, because they realize there's no going back. This is a page that has been turned. We are in a new chapter of history. So you asked about is Donald Trump 2018 the same Donald Trump today say almost. The thing about Donald Trump 2018, I think he was a little naive. I think he genuinely thought it would be easy to get Europe, to get China even to come along and do freer trade. I think he now realizes that they'll make a lot of promises and they did this. Europe very, very much did this in Trump's first term. They made a lot of promises about opening up their markets and never did. So what Donald Trump is saying this time around is the baseline is going to be tariffs. You are going to get the tariffs. If you show us that you are opening your markets to the US and the way to show that is that you're buying a lot more stuff from the US Then your tariff will come down. Until then, you know, we're going to trust but verify. We'll listen to you. We'll understand what you want to do. Your tariffs aren't going to come down well until we see that you're making progress.

[Andrew Colvitt]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. No, and John, I think that's really smart. I think, and I noticed this yesterday with the markets, you know, every time there was a little bit of a glimmer of hope, 0 for 0 trade with Europe or whatever, the markets would kind of react and it would go back to the White House and they say, and I have to just tip my hat to them, the resolve with which they are approaching tariffs. I mean, they're not freaking out. The sky's not falling at the White House, but it is around the markets. But they're saying here, no, we're prepared to stomach the storm right now.

[Charlie Kirk]

Private student loan debt in the US totals about $300 billion. Give why refi a [e-mail] yrefy.com may not be available in all 50 states. Just call 8 at 8 yrefi34 log on to yrefi.com bad credit is accepted. Yrefi offers a 3 minute rate check without any credit impact. Many clients aren't even able to make the minimum monthly payment on their private student loans when they first contact yrefi. Go to yrefy.com that is yrefy.com it can refinance all your private student loan discussions. So go to yrefi.com it may not be available in all 50 states. About $45 billion of all private student loan debt is labeled as distressed. Go to yrefi.com, do you have a co borrower? Yrefi can get them released from the loan. You can give mom or dad a break. Bad credit is accepted. Yrefi offers major credit check for you guys free of charge. Because of student loan debt, so many Americans feel stuck and helpless and they've even lost hope. So you guys can get [e-mail].

[Andrew Colvitt]

Andrew Colvett in for the one and only Charlie Kirk, who is on assignment today doing his college tour. He's in Illinois. It's going to be very exciting. Yesterday he was in South Carolina in the rain and still thousands of students showed up. Just, just remarkable what we're witnessing. John Carney with Breitbart News. John, we've got a, let's say about a minute left here and I'm going to just, I'm going to tee up the topic. By the way, Georgia Maloney, breaking news here. The Italian prime minister will soon arrive in Washington. Washington to negotiate the tariffs and goods imported from Italy. So that's another piece of breaking news we're hearing 50, 60, 70 countries lining up to negotiate. So let me just set the stage here. John Reagan famously did not like tariffs. He used them sparingly, but he thought long term that they would be problematic. And he referenced himself, himself, the Smoot Hawley act in the 1930s and saying that it worsened the Great Depression. He referenced Nixon and some of the problems there, although Nixon got reelected in a landslide. Explain. You know these are we looking at a direct parallel?

[John Carney]

JOHN carney so no, I don't think that this is anything like the 1930s at all. And in fact, we were already headed into a depression. I actually think the Smoot Hawley act is unfairly vilified. It was not the cause of the Great Depression. And it really didn't do much to make it worse. And Reagan frankly was a big protectionist. I know he has a legend as a free trader. It's not really true. He did a lot to protect U.S. autos from Japanese predatory practices. In fact, he imposed quotas on how many cars could come into America from Japan. Not tariffs. Literally said you can only send this many cars in and that's why they built Honda factories and Toyota factories all over the American.

[Andrew Colvitt]

You're, you're getting to the crux of the issue here, John. So we're talking about Smoot Hawley, the 1930s, Nixon, Reagan's perspective on it. Conservatives have generally historically been against protectionism. But your point Reagan was dealing with. These are not apples to apples, okay? Reagan still had the 1980s. We were, we were still an industrialized country. Our manufacturing base had not been hollowed out in the way that it has been now. And furthermore, Reagan was a bit of a protectionist in practice. And so, so we are dealing. These are not direct one to one parallels. Just continue on with these, this thought here because I agree with you. Smoot Hawley gets vilified. But the Great Depression already started. Smoot Hawley didn't get, I think put into Place until 1930s. Black Friday obviously was in 1929. John Carney, the floor is yours.

[John Carney]

So let's start with Smoot Hawley because this is something that comes up a lot. And then we'll get to Reagan because I think the Reagan legacy is a lot more complicated than people think. So Smoot Hawley definitely did not cause the Great Depression. Great Depression was caused by misguided monetary and fiscal policies, but not by a tariff on imports. Remember what a lot of people say about tariffs on imports, that they're going to raise consumer prices. Look back at the Great Depression. Was the problem that prices were too high? No, the asset prices crashed in the Great Depression. Things that people weren't working in the Great Depression. It was not a period of inflation. It was a period of deflation and depression. So how can they say smooth holly causes it? Well, one thing is they say that the rest of the world retaliated with tariffs against Smoot Pauli. That is a very strange and really almost insane take. The rest of the world was actually moving towards protectionism itself. The idea that they would just have been free traders if not for the Smoot Hawley tariff that the rest of the world only reacted to the United States in 1930 is crazy. In fact, the rest of the world was going to adopt those tariffs anyway. So Smoot Hawley was part of a movement that the rest of the world was doing which was putting on tariffs. Did that maybe make the Great Depression worse? Sure. The fact that the entire world adopted tariffs may have. And raised protectionist barriers may have contributed a little bit to the Great Depression, but it was a minor thing. And again, the context was very different than it is today. And what I would say is that the reason why people like to blame Smoot Hawley is because it was a big, big tariff. And people who hate tariffs want to try to assign it to the Great Depression. But real serious economic scholars do not think there is a large role played by tariffs, by our tariffs in causing the Great Depression. Maybe some other tariffs may have contributed to it by hurting our exports. But again, the world was headed into a Great Depression.

[Andrew Colvitt]

Yeah.

[John Carney]

Was going to fall no matter what.

[Andrew Colvitt]

Yeah. Well, and exactly. And I mean, a lot of. We don't have to relitigate the Great Depression here. I think it's like it's akin to Hitler in that it's the only historical reference most people have about economics versus war. Right. So, but I mean, the truth is, is that there was a tightening monetary policy that was instituted during the Great Depression as well, which is the exact opposite of what economists now use to get out of, you know, a recession or a deep recession where they ease monetary policy and they fl. Flood the market with. With cash and liquidity. So they, I mean, they had. We learned a lot of big lessons in the Great Depression. The other thing, John, here, though, I want to just close out. If you saw, if you had to say, where should Trump land this plane, whether it takes six months or six weeks, where would you like to see this end?

[John Carney]

So I think it ends with a universal 10% tariff, maybe a little higher, maybe a little lower. That is basically a revenue tariff. It is a tax to. I call it a friends and family charge, a cover charge to come into the United States. And I think the reciprocal tariffs on most countries will come way down because they want access to the U.S. markets. And so we will have freer trade than we had when this all started. With the exception of China. They're not going to change. And we are going to decouple with China eventually, unless they have some sort of political revolution that overthrows their communism. I'm not counting on that. So I think we get decoupling with China, free trade with everybody else, and a revenue tariff that lets us cut taxes on Americans here at home.

[Andrew Colvitt]

Yeah. And John, I think let's just be very clear. He wants better, more equal playing field with Europe, with India, with, you know, Vietnam. This is really Japan, but this is really a trade war with China. We are decoupling from China. He's going to force the hand of China. And if he, if President Trump can unite the world against the CCP and, and basically decouple the world's industrial supply chains from the ccp, it's going to be a massive historical win. John Carney, Breitbart.com Check it out. Thank you so much, John. We'll have you on again soon. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Talk to you soon.

[John Carney]

For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.