The Smug Student Who Thinks Truth Isn't Real ft. George Janko

Summary

Podcast Title: The Charlie Kirk Show
Episode Title: The Smug Student Who Thinks Truth Isn't Real ft. George Janko
Release Date: December 3, 2024
Host: Charlie Kirk
Guests: George Janko
Description: Charlie Kirk, America's hardest-working grassroots activist and founder of Turning Point USA, delves into the heart of America's culture wars. In this episode, he engages in fervent discussions about truth, morality, religion, and current socio-political issues with callers and guest George Janko.

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1. Introduction and Setting the Stage

The episode opens with Charlie Kirk welcoming listeners and highlighting his mission to combat what he perceives as destructive ideas on college campuses. While brief advertisements intersperse the conversation, the primary focus remains on engaging with callers who challenge or support his viewpoints.

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2. Debate on Absolute Truth and Morality

Timestamp: 00:00 – 08:38

Participants: Charlie Kirk, Atheist Caller, George Janko, Candace Owens

The episode kicks off with a heated exchange between Charlie Kirk and an atheist caller. The central theme revolves around the existence of absolute truth and objective morality.

• Charlie Kirk's Position:

  • Absolute Truth: Charlie asserts that absolute truth exists and is essential for societal stability. He ties this to religious (Christian) foundations, arguing that without absolute truths, society descends into chaos.

    • Notable Quote (02:32):
      Charlie Kirk: "Right. No. But saying you're not sure, you are not even sure if you're not sure. So at some point, you just always have to make a truth claim."

  • Objective Morality: He contends that moral absolutes, such as the inherent wrongness of murder, are derived from divine command.

    • Notable Quote (05:56):
      Charlie Kirk: "Using logic, which you believe. If space, time and matter had a starting point, then logically, shouldn't something outside of space, time and matter have started those things?"

• Atheist Caller's Position:

  • Instrumentalist Truth: The caller challenges the notion of absolute truth, suggesting that truth is pragmatic and used as a tool for discussions rather than being inherently absolute.

    • Notable Quote (02:53):
      Atheist Caller: "I think truth is instrumentalist in theory. I think it's a thing we choose pragmatically for the purposes of discussion."

  • Skepticism of Morality's Objectivity: The caller questions whether actions like murder can be deemed objectively wrong without a divine framework.

• George Janko and Candace Owens:

  • Support Charlie's viewpoints, reinforcing the importance of freedom and conservative values.

The debate intensifies as Charlie employs philosophical arguments, including the Kalam Cosmological Argument, to posit the necessity of a deity as the foundational cause of the universe. He challenges the caller to provide evidence for the absence of objective morality, emphasizing that without it, societies lack coherence.

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3. Caller Interaction: Immigration and Moral Responsibility

Timestamp: 17:00 – 26:11

Participants: Charlie Kirk, Concerned Caller, George Janko, Candace Owens

A concerned caller introduces a new dimension to the discussion by questioning the ethical implications of profiting from divisive socio-political issues under the guise of Christian values.

• Concerned Caller's Concerns:

  • Profit and Antagonism: The caller expresses discomfort with the perceived antagonistic nature of Charlie's movement, fearing it may foster hatred and division.

    • Notable Quote (11:00):
      Concerned Caller: "How can you sit here making all this money and still say this is in the name of Jesus Christ?"

  • Immigration Ethics: Drawing from personal family history, the caller discusses the moral dilemmas surrounding illegal immigration, especially in life-threatening circumstances.

    • Notable Quote (21:24):
      Concerns Caller: "My mom is from El Salvador... she had to flee to another city. They seek asylum from the USA, did not get anything, and they essentially just bled."

• Charlie Kirk's Response:

  • Defending the Movement: Charlie asserts that his focus is on elevating the suffering of Americans and identifying specific groups, such as drug cartels and the political left, as societal enemies.

    • Notable Quote (17:20):
      Charlie Kirk: "I do think the drug cartels are enemies. I think the American left are enemies."

  • Immigration Stance: He acknowledges the complexities of legal and illegal immigration, advocating for prioritizing American workers while recognizing merit-based immigration can be beneficial if properly implemented.

    • Notable Quote (18:06):
      Charlie Kirk: "We should prioritize the American worker before the foreigner. And yes, legal immigrants can enhance [the country] done properly."

• George Janko's Input:

  • Compassionate Approach: George shares personal experiences to bridge understanding, emphasizing the importance of addressing internal societal issues before extending help externally.
    • Notable Quote (24:38):
      George Janko: "My dad taught me the lesson... prepare your home, get the establishment right, then extend our hand to our neighbors."

The conversation underscores the tension between national sovereignty, economic priorities, and moral obligations toward immigrants, highlighting the challenges of balancing compassion with pragmatic governance.

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4. Discussion on Israel-Palestine Conflict

Timestamp: 28:24 – 30:26

Participants: Charlie Kirk, Candace Owens

The dialogue shifts to international relations, specifically the Israel-Palestine conflict, examining the roles of different actors and the geopolitical implications.

• Charlie Kirk's Stance:

  • Pro-Israel: Charlie reaffirms strong support for Israel, emphasizing its right to exist and its geopolitical significance.
    • Notable Quote (28:40):
      Charlie Kirk: "I love Israel and I think our relationship with Israel has a really important role geopolitically and also morally."

• Candace Owens' Perspective:

  • Balanced Critique: While supporting Israel's right to its land, Candace critiques certain Israeli actions that may destabilize the region, advocating for pressure to uphold established peace mechanisms.
    • Notable Quote (28:40):
      Candace Owens: "I think Israel... have destabilized the region to an extent."

The exchange highlights the complexities of international alliances, the ethical considerations in foreign policy, and the balance between supporting allies and advocating for regional stability.

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5. Separation of Church and State

Timestamp: 30:34 – 36:28

Participants: Charlie Kirk, Ranger (Caller), George Janko, Candace Owens

A caller named Ranger challenges Charlie Kirk on his stance regarding the separation of church and state, prompting an in-depth discussion on the role of religion in American governance.

• Ranger's Inquiry:

  • Constitutional Separation: Ranger questions whether Charlie believes in the constitutional separation of church and state, referencing the First Amendment.
    • Notable Quote (31:04):
      Ranger: "Do you believe there should be a separation between those two things, church and state?"

• Charlie Kirk's Response:

  • Historical Integration: Charlie contests the notion of strict separation, citing Thomas Jefferson's letter and the presence of religious references in foundational American documents.

    • Notable Quote (31:07):
      Charlie Kirk: "The separation of church and state is not in the U.S. constitution... God is there in four times mentioned in the Declaration of Independence."

  • Ten Commandments as Moral Framework: He emphasizes the importance of the Ten Commandments in maintaining societal morals and stability, arguing that moral guidance is essential for the nation's prosperity.

    • Notable Quote (32:19):
      Charlie Kirk: "And that specific Proverbs verse is not towards government policy, but towards the individual. We should care about people."

• Further Discussion:

  • War and Religion: Charlie counters the argument that religion fuels war by pointing to historical conflicts led by atheist regimes, such as those under Mao Zedong and Joseph Stalin, to illustrate that totalitarianism, rather than religion, often underpins mass atrocities.

    • Notable Quote (33:30):
      Charlie Kirk: "He was an atheist. What religion did Joseph Stalin believe in... he was an atheist."

  • LGBTQ+ Morality: The conversation briefly touches on LGBTQ+ issues, with Charlie grounding his stance in religious teachings and biblical scripture.

    • Notable Quote (35:08):
      Charlie Kirk: "I believe in what nature teaches us, but most importantly, what the scriptures teach us."

The segment underscores Charlie Kirk's belief in the foundational role of religion in American society and governance, advocating for moral guidelines rooted in religious doctrine rather than secular separation.

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6. Closing Remarks and Final Interactions

As the episode nears its end, Charlie Kirk reinforces his core beliefs, urging listeners to support his movement's mission to uphold truth and morality based on religious principles. George Janko offers a heartfelt appeal for understanding and growth across differing viewpoints, emphasizing love and compassion despite ideological differences.

• George Janko's Message:

  • Notable Quote (17:06):
    George Janko: "We are on opposite sides of things, but I love you."

• Charlie Kirk's Final Thoughts:

  • Reaffirmation of Beliefs: Charlie reiterates his commitment to truth and morality, aligning with conservative and Christian values.
    • Notable Quote (35:08):
      Charlie Kirk: "I believe in what nature teaches us, but most importantly, what the scriptures teach us."

The episode concludes with brief advertisements and acknowledgments, maintaining the focus on the substantive discussions held throughout.

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Conclusion

"The Smug Student Who Thinks Truth Isn't Real ft. George Janko" offers a comprehensive exploration of Charlie Kirk's staunch advocacy for absolute truth, objective morality, and the integration of religious principles in governance. Through passionate debates and caller interactions, the episode delves into pressing issues such as the role of religion in public life, immigration ethics, and international conflicts, all framed within a conservative and Christian worldview. Guests like George Janko and Candace Owens bolster Kirk's arguments, providing additional perspectives that underscore the episode's central themes of truth, morality, and national integrity.

Notable Quotes Summary:

• Charlie Kirk (02:32): "So at some point, you just always have to make a truth claim."
• Atheist Caller (02:53): "I think truth is instrumentalist in theory."
• Charlie Kirk (05:56): "If space, time and matter had a starting point, then logically, shouldn't something outside of space, time and matter have started those things?"
• Concerned Caller (11:00): "How can you sit here making all this money and still say this is in the name of Jesus Christ?"
• Charlie Kirk (17:20): "I do think the drug cartels are enemies. I think the American left are enemies."
• Charlie Kirk (31:07): "The separation of church and state is not in the U.S. constitution."
• Charlie Kirk (33:30): "He was an atheist. What religion did Joseph Stalin believe in... he was an atheist."
• George Janko (17:06): "We are on opposite sides of things, but I love you."

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Disclaimer: This summary is based on the provided transcript and is intended for informational purposes only. It captures the key discussions, viewpoints, and notable quotes from the episode of "The Charlie Kirk Show."

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

Hey, everybody. Enjoy this episode. Become a member. Members.charliekirk.com that is members.charliekirk. com email us. As always, freedomarlykirk.com and become a member to support this program. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

[Candace Owens]

I want to thank Charlie.

[George]

He's an incredible guy.

[Candace Owens]

His spirit, his love of this country.

[George]

He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.

[Charlie Kirk]

We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold investments@noblegold investments.com that is noblegold investments.com. it's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegoldinvestments.com yes. Hello.

[Atheist Caller]

Hi. Okay, so can I give you, like, a list of things I generally disagree with? You could choose which one. All right. I'm an atheist, so I disagree with your religious claims. I'll disagree with the two gender thing. Well, how it's characterized.

[Charlie Kirk]

Boo.

[Atheist Caller]

And then lastly, maybe I think Kamala might be a di hire under your definition. I don't think that's inherently a bad thing. Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

Is there anything you agree with us on?

[Atheist Caller]

I think I'm mostly a fiscal conservative. I'm. I think, like you, I don't like illegal immigration or high rates of illegal immigration. That doesn't mean that I will be voting Trump or. I think Trump is the best man to solve those problems, but those aren't really what I want to discuss anyway. So I just wanted to align some things you asked me what I agree with on.

[Charlie Kirk]

So, okay, so which one of those things do you want to discuss?

[Atheist Caller]

Let's do religion.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, great. That can involve my friend George here. Okay, so do you believe in absolute truth?

[Atheist Caller]

I'm not sure you can provide me just positive evidence that there is absolute truth. So the answer would be, I'm not sure.

[Charlie Kirk]

Are you. Are you absolutely not sure?

[Atheist Caller]

I'm not sure if I'm absolutely not sure. See, this works if you say no, but it doesn't work if you bottom out in the I'm not, I don't know question.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right. No. But saying you're not sure, you are not even sure if you're not sure. So at some point, you just always have to make a truth claim. Yeah.

[Atheist Caller]

No, you can just be not sure about everything all the way down. I don't see why you can't. And my answer would be, I think truth is instrumentalist in theory. I think it's a thing we choose pragmatically for the purposes of discussion. I think you can say, yeah, I think truth exists pragmatically. Regardless of that, I don't see how you get to God.

[Charlie Kirk]

Are you alive?

[Atheist Caller]

Huh?

[Charlie Kirk]

Are you alive?

[Atheist Caller]

I think I'm alive, yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

Think you're alive, yeah. Is the sun. Is the sun shining?

[Atheist Caller]

I think it's shining, yeah. From my frame of reference, it is shining. Notice, notice how none of this. I mean, notice how you've gotten no steps closer to proving God.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I'm asking questions, man.

[Atheist Caller]

Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, but are you sure we did it?

[Atheist Caller]

Yeah, I'm sure. Are you sure we're in the. God, I'm pray. I'm sure in the pragmatic instrument?

[George]

How are you that we didn't in.

[Atheist Caller]

The pragmatic instrumentalist sense? Absolutely sure. I see truth as a utility.

[George]

So there is a truth that's absolute.

[Atheist Caller]

No, it's. It's instrumental.

[George]

You just said it was absolute.

[Atheist Caller]

No, absolutely sure. In the instrumentalist sense of the word. Truth. This is a philosophical tradition that dates back hundreds of years. Instrumentalism.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. Which, of course, we don't subscribe to, obviously. So do you believe that murder is.

[Atheist Caller]

Objectively wrong, epistemologically objective, or ontologically objective?

[Charlie Kirk]

Morally.

[Atheist Caller]

See, you didn't answer the question.

[Charlie Kirk]

But both epistemologically and ontologically. But for the purpose of discussion first.

[Atheist Caller]

Okay, so by what you mean. No, I don't think it's objective.

[Charlie Kirk]

Was Hitler a bad person? Objectively, no.

[Atheist Caller]

If you mean by. By the way. By the way.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, no, but he's being honest at its core. Atheists cannot say that Hitler was bad.

[Atheist Caller]

Can I make the claim now? Notice, who here is relying on feelings and not facts? Your argument is I feel that Hitler was objective.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no, no. I know.

[Atheist Caller]

No, no, you feel that way. Can you provide me evidence of how you know? Can you provide me evidence that morality is objective?

[Charlie Kirk]

No, of course I can, because. Well, first of all, morality is both reason and revelation, and it's built within to us that murder is wrong. Yeah.

[Atheist Caller]

Okay. Where's your evidence of that?

[Charlie Kirk]

Wait, wait.

[George]

I'm so sorry.

[Atheist Caller]

Is that a. That's a claim, not evidence. That's a claim.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, we could, we could spend multiple hours, but in the western tradition, so.

[Atheist Caller]

Notice how you're saying by tradition, by the standards, all claims of non truth value.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on. Yes, they are. We believe that truth was revealed to us.

[Atheist Caller]

We believe claim by God.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on. But let me, let me. We can get there. You can keep on interrupting us. Okay, but let me prove to you how silly your viewpoint is.

[Atheist Caller]

Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

And how self evidently wrong.

[Atheist Caller]

Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

Is it objectively wrong to rape kids?

[Atheist Caller]

When you say objective, what I mean by objective Once again. Once again.

[George]

Can I ask you something?

[Atheist Caller]

No, no, no. Notice how you still haven't given me dispositive evidence on reality's objective. You're merely saying my answer is I feel that way. Sure, I feel that way.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's objectively wrong to the laws of nature.

[Atheist Caller]

What law of nature?

[Charlie Kirk]

What? The self evident nature of existence.

[Atheist Caller]

Where's your proof that itself? Show me the logical proof that it's self evident.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay. It's in your reason that God gave you in the consciousness.

[Atheist Caller]

Prove that God gave it to me.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, but again, your existence is proof of that. Again, we can get back down to the first principles of this, but.

[Atheist Caller]

We can. But you don't want to because, you know, it doesn't look good.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, it looks actually really good because.

[Atheist Caller]

There'S evidence for it built within.

[Charlie Kirk]

Again, interrupting does not make you right.

[Atheist Caller]

So keep repeating your point. I get your point.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I don't. So let me ask you a question in closing. Since you can't objectively say that Hitler was bad or that child rape was wrong. So how did the universe come into existence?

[Atheist Caller]

I don't know.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, but science says that it was a big bang or a beginning point, right? Okay, so using logic, which you believe.

[Atheist Caller]

In, is this the Kalam cosmological argument?

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on again, you keep interrupting. Using, Using logic. If space, time and matter, okay, had a starting point, okay, then logically, shouldn't something outside of space, time and matter have started those things?

[Atheist Caller]

How do you know that cause is personal? How do you know that cause is worth praying to?

[Charlie Kirk]

How do you. That's not the question.

[Atheist Caller]

Wait, wait. Okay, sure, there is a cause.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, that causes God because it's outside of space, time and man.

[Atheist Caller]

No, no, no. But by definition you believe in different things about God. You think that God is personal.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's not, that's not what we're debating.

[Atheist Caller]

No, we are arguing about God. We're arguing about Christianity is religion.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on, we're not debating it. We're debating whether or not There's a God or not?

[Atheist Caller]

No, the Christian God. I said religion. That you're a religious person, you're a Christian in nature, you follow religious tradition.

[Charlie Kirk]

Calm down. You said you're an atheist.

[Atheist Caller]

Wait, no. God. God, historically, Aquinas even defines it this way, is a personal God. You still haven't gone to me personal.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm happy to get to that.

[Atheist Caller]

Okay, then get to it, man.

[Charlie Kirk]

I encourage you to act a little bit, like, more humble in your disposition, man.

[Atheist Caller]

Okay, I'll try.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. I'm gonna get to the next question because, look, here's what I find with atheists. They don't want to worship or acknowledge God because many atheists think they are God. And you embody that really well.

[Atheist Caller]

I didn't know you were a mind reader, Charlie. This is news to me.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's not a mind reader. I can tell by your behavior. I will say this. I hope that you give your life to Jesus Christ. I hope you do.

[Atheist Caller]

I hope you can find evidence. I hope you can find evidence.

[Charlie Kirk]

You know what's interesting? There is evidence. There is evidence that Jesus. Hold on. Last thing. Do you believe Jesus Christ was a real historical figure?

[Atheist Caller]

Yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

Do you believe that the Gospels are historically accurate and we can prove them with archaeological evidence?

[Atheist Caller]

Some parts are. Some parts are. Some parts are metaphors, some parts are allegories. Some parts are literal. It depends. Some parts are attempts at history.

[Charlie Kirk]

Which book or gospel using rational analysis. Why would the disciples lie about the resurrection of Christ?

[Atheist Caller]

Okay, we can talk about this. People. They can be mistaken, mistakenly wrong about it.

[Charlie Kirk]

So they would be mistakenly wrong up to the point where they get martyred.

[Atheist Caller]

The whole point of being. The whole point of being mistakenly wrong about something is you believe it's true.

[Charlie Kirk]

All the way up until the point of death.

[Atheist Caller]

The whole point of being mistakenly wrong about something is you believe.

[Charlie Kirk]

I just want to make sure I understand your position. Your position is that the 12 disciples who knew Christ best saw him die and then they all believed a mistaken conspiracy for the rest of their life.

[David Navarre]

Yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

All of them together as a conspiracy.

[Atheist Caller]

Yes. Yes.

[Hispanic American Caller]

Yes.

[Atheist Caller]

There is no first town account from the 500. The Gospels are all written by these people. People have died for crazy claims in the past that we know aren't true. These are all facts about history.

[Charlie Kirk]

Not correct. Okay. One of the Gospels was written by one of his closest associates, Matthew, the tax collector. Luke was a fact fighter that was hired.

[Atheist Caller]

No, I didn't say the Gospels weren't written by them. I said there's no evidence from the 500 that he appeared to. There's no first hand accounts.

[Charlie Kirk]

Again, that's not correct. Thank you for your time. We'll get to the next question you cannot answer. We will pray for you. Thank you everybody.

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[Concerned Caller]

Yep, I'm interested in talking about something similar as well to what he was talking about. I'll just frame it in this way from what you had to say, just telling him he you hope he serves his life towards Jesus Christ. Genuine question. Do you believe serving corporate interests to further disillude the population and draw a lot of like hatred between us with your kind of egoism, is that serving Jesus and that's not attack. I genuinely am really concerned about the antagonism of this entire movement. I just, I just cannot imagine any world where Jesus would be interested in any word Trump has to say. Trump himself evidently didn't really read the Bible despite like claiming to love it and everything. His words of just trying to separate the entire country people to make profit off a question that you like to ask, like are you pro choice or pro life? But you know yourself that it's really just a question we shouldn't have to ask because the.

[Charlie Kirk]

What is your question?

[Concerned Caller]

The question is how can you sit here making all this money and still say this is in the name of Jesus Christ? Because a lot of people genuinely love Jesus Christ and don't try to profit off people fighting in the name of Christ. That's mainly my question. And like, I'm just really concerned for the People here because you say, how are those 12 people brainwashed? It's happening to 300 million people in America right now, so it's not that hard to believe.

[Charlie Kirk]

Do you think the people wearing MAGA hats are brainwashed right now?

[Concerned Caller]

No, I. Dude. I mean, I'm not really interested if they're brainwashed or not. I'm interested in making sure that they understand the truth, which is that there are no enemies. Except the people telling you that there are enemies and making money off of.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on a second. There are enemies People telling you. I think the cartels an enemy of the American people and they sex traffic kids in this country. You'd agree?

[Concerned Caller]

Yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay. So that's an enemy that Donald Trump has pinpointed. I think that Venezuelan gangs that take over American apartment complexes are enemies. You would agree? No, no, no. You had your part pretty moving, man.

[Concerned Caller]

But I think you're more moved by Jesus Christ and I'm making you a little uncomfortable because you know, when the paycheck hits and that's what really matters for you. Jesus is not too keen with you, sir.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on. Just hold on a second, Charlie, I will be honest. I'm a sinner and so are you. And I've given my life to Christ. Have you?

[Concerned Caller]

Christ didn't want you to give your life to him. He said the kingdom of heaven is within you and that he didn't believe in any organized religion, in any scripture. He spoke against all of that, man. He was in a scene from Nazareth.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, that. You are making stuff up.

[Concerned Caller]

I just said he was in a scene from Nazareth, which was a Jewish sect of Hebrew peoples.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[Concerned Caller]

No, it wasn't. They actually put themselves out in the desert.

[Charlie Kirk]

You've come out awfully combative.

[Concerned Caller]

I'm sorry. I'm just concerned about the people who want to love Christ.

[George]

Also, it could be kind of nerve wracking because I could tell you're a little nervous. There's a lot of people.

[Charlie Kirk]

I mean, you're shaking, so I could tell you're really nervous.

[George]

So.

[Concerned Caller]

Just passionate, sir.

[Candace Owens]

Yeah.

[George]

No, and that's great. But my.

[Concerned Caller]

Like, I'm not worried about making money. I want real conversations. I know this is a job for you, but hold on.

[Charlie Kirk]

How much am I being paid to be here?

[Concerned Caller]

I'm not sure. I don't know.

[Charlie Kirk]

Does Trump pay anything?

[Concerned Caller]

Does Trump pay you?

[Charlie Kirk]

No, actually. So you don't know anything about me, but you think I'm here just for money? How much did I charge? How much did I charge for those hats today? Yeah, that's yeah, so. But again, it is easy to criticize me, but you don't know anything about me.

[Concerned Caller]

I feel like George knows what I'm saying, man. I've heard you talk about these things.

[George]

Yeah. So let's talk. Let's talk. I think what happens is. And again, I have a heart for you because you're surrounded by people that have an opposite opinion. So I'm here to let you know I understand where you're coming from.

[Concerned Caller]

I don't think we have opposite opinions, though.

[Candace Owens]

Yeah.

[George]

Okay, let me get to it. My question is, let's get to what you want to know if he's not getting paid, if I'm not getting paid. What is on your heart that you're like, you should not be getting money for this. Could you elaborate one area? That we're making money that we should not be making money in.

[Concerned Caller]

In, like. I don't know, man. And having kids hate each other, bro. That's literally it. I'm just saying. I'm just saying, like, if you really want to look at. What's really happening is we're just making a lot of clips for, like, young people that are too lazy to actually look into politics and philosophy so they can just.

[Charlie Kirk]

What do you do for a living?

[George]

What do you do for a living?

[Concerned Caller]

Landscaping.

[George]

Okay. And that's a beautiful job, right? That gift that you got so you're able to clean up this yard. It's your choice if you want to represent it. Saying, this is from my God. Just because we go to work and we get paid, that doesn't mean God's upset with us. Now, what we do for the kingdom, now, when we look at this situation, we see where our country is. We are fighting for our children. We are fighting for God. So if we make a profit by talking about our prophets, that's fine. But if I'm abusing the power of the kingdom to make a profit, and I truly don't give about what's going on, that's what's wrong. God looks at the positioning of your heart, Charlie. He doesn't have sleepless nights because he's trying to make people like you able to speak into that mic, even though you guys don't agree. He's waking up every day, so you have the ability to do this.

[Charlie Kirk]

No.

[Hispanic American Caller]

What.

[Concerned Caller]

I'm. I agree, but what if you just. I know. I know, man. You have to do what you have to do to get as many people here. It's just the level of antagonism is not something, anything. Jesus Christ. Would like.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on a second. But didn't Jesus say that I came to divide the world, not unite the world? Didn't Jesus come to say, I brought a sword and the sword of truth to turn father against son and mother against daughter? Didn't Jesus say, those who not know my name will not see me in the eternal life and know my Father? And they will say, I do not know who you are, and you will be in a sea of eternal damnation. Christ did not come to unite the world. He actually came to divide it based on truth. So this kind of revisionist history, that Christ is a John Lennon song, and then it's all just going to be peace and harmony is not correct. We must love all people. But show me one example where I have been antagonistic at someone who comes up to a mic searching for truth. I actually started with the. The first question. I said, do you agree with us on anything? How would you like to do this? I'm not here to pick a fight. I'm here to try to teach, learn, and listen. Right?

[Concerned Caller]

Yes, I agree with you 100%. And there's nothing antagonistic from you I can point out, other than literally just this, you're being brainwashed.

[Charlie Kirk]

Prove me wrong.

[Concerned Caller]

I mean, I mean, I could prove you wrong. Like, I'm not, but I'm saying this.

[Charlie Kirk]

Is not antagonistic at all.

[Concerned Caller]

Actually, I'm more concerned about Donald Trump and you pushing him and his antagonism. I think that's hard to debate Trump's antagonism.

[Charlie Kirk]

I don't think you know very much about any of these topics. How has Trump been antagonistic? The guy that's been shot, indicted, impeached, facing 700 years in federal prison, Maybe they're the ones being antagonistic to him.

[Concerned Caller]

That deification of Trump is crazy, man. You know, it's dangerous to every American.

[Charlie Kirk]

I don't have a deification of Trump. You know what I do elevate? I elevate the suffering of the American people and how Donald Trump will improve their lives. Donald Trump is a vessel to improve the lives of everyone around you. So I'm going to just. We're going to get to the next question. Thank you for being here.

[George]

I would like to say one thing to you, though. Just because I've been in your situation and your stance, this is what I want to say to you when I was in this position is because I didn't want to ask questions. I wanted to tell them what I think and when we could get to a place where you're actually Curious to know where our hearts lie instead of accuse us for things you don't know about. You can't grow. I want you to grow. I trust me. I know we're on opposite sides of things, but I love you.

[Concerned Caller]

Or not, bro. I love you too.

[George]

Thank you, bro.

[Concerned Caller]

And that's why I'm trying to let everyone here know that like, there are no enemies except the people that tell you there are. So do you people make money off of our.

[Charlie Kirk]

I disagree. I think the drug cartels are enemies. I think the American left are enemies. Us. Yeah.

[Concerned Caller]

Fair.

[Charlie Kirk]

I do. I think people. For example, I think someone that performs abortions is an enemy of humanity.

[Concerned Caller]

Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, but I'm going to say the enemy.

[Concerned Caller]

I agree, sir.

[Charlie Kirk]

So anyway, thank you so much. We'll get to the next question. Thank you.

[David Navarre]

Hey guys. Big fan.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[David Navarre]

Hey, so in one of your tours you said that legal immigration is very high in the country. What is the basis of that opinion? And do you want to crack down on the merit based legal immigration? Also, a follow up question. The 1776 Revolution was primarily fought over premise of taxation without representation. So legal immigrants are the groups today that are being taxed without any representation. So do you think that they shouldn't be taxed until they get some representation?

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, so we have 1.6 million green cards we give out a year. So it's just. You can look it up in the center for Immigration Studies. Yes, we should curtail legal immigration, but that's not the bigger priority. The bigger priority is illegal immigration. And your final question is no. If you are here on a visa, you are receiving benefits from the government such as protection, national security, defense. So you should have to pay taxes.

[David Navarre]

So. But still that. Don't you think that legal immigration, especially merit based, makes the country stronger?

[Charlie Kirk]

It can. It also can make it weaker.

[David Navarre]

How?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, for example, we should have a obligation to employ American college graduates before foreign college graduates. Legal immigration can enhance the country. But for example, everybody in this audience who is American born will be receiving a country that is substantially worse than that of their parents. And so you should prioritize the American worker before the foreigner. And yes, legal immigrants can enhance one done properly.

[David Navarre]

I agree with that. But don't you think that innovation brought by really high merit people creates more jobs? Like for example, in AI, like we should bring all the experts from around the world. Right?

[Charlie Kirk]

It's probably a good idea. That's a sliver of what our current immigration status is. The current immigration program is not merit. It's family connection. It's diversity pool and country pool.

[David Navarre]

That's true. I completely agree.

[Charlie Kirk]

So we agree merit should always dictate our immigration policy.

[David Navarre]

Do you think we should abolish the 7% cap country cap in green card?

[Concerned Caller]

Yes, I do.

[Charlie Kirk]

We should not have a quota on what countries people come from.

[David Navarre]

Thank you.

[Charlie Kirk]

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[Hispanic American Caller]

How's it going, Charlie? It is so hot. Oh my goodness. Big fan of both of you guys. My name is David Navarre. I'm a Hispanic American. I just wanted to come and just discuss things. I am a born again believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. I preach the Gospel.

[Candace Owens]

Amen.

[Hispanic American Caller]

But I wanted to just have a discussion because it comes from my background actually. So I wanted to ask both of you, actually one question. Do you ever think there's a circumstance that it can be morally right to break the US Federal law?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes. And biblically, it supports that belief. Yeah.

[Hispanic American Caller]

Okay, cool. I was honestly expecting something different, but I just wanted to share kind of my family background. My mom is from El Salvador. I'm half Salvadorian, half Mexican. I don't know if you know, but in the 80s, there was civil war. She grew up seeing dead body parts outside of her house. The gangs killed her grandfather, chopped them into pieces. They were after her father. Next they had to flee to another city. In El Salvador, they were left with what it seemed like no choice but to leave the country, to not die. They seek asylum from the usa, did not get anything, and they essentially just bled. And to their brother who was in Los Angeles, they came illegally, received papers, eventually. Eventually got forgiven. I'm a citizen. But I just wanted to ask if you thought that was morally right.

[Charlie Kirk]

Repeat, it was a long one.

[Hispanic American Caller]

Because your part was right, that her coming illegally.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, no, no, it's not morally right.

[Hispanic American Caller]

Okay. And why do you believe that?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, first of all, it's not right to break into another country.

[Hispanic American Caller]

Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

Number one. Number two, the circumstance of which she left, she could have declared asylum, right?

[Hispanic American Caller]

Yeah, yeah. They tried, and they didn't. They didn't get anything.

[Charlie Kirk]

They were denied on asylum.

[Hispanic American Caller]

They were. They did not receive anything. They were on the verge of death.

[Candace Owens]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

Look, under that circumstance, it is not morally right to break into another country.

[Hispanic American Caller]

Okay. Yeah. I wanted to read a quick verse. Proverbs, chapter 24, verse 11. Rescue those being led away to death, hold back those staggering towards slaughter. If you say, but we knew nothing about this, does not he who. Does not he who weighs the heart perceive it? What I wanted to say, I think this goes above legalism and more towards morality and God's will. I believe it was the Lord's will for my life to be in here in the United States, even if I came. And what you say morally wrong? I think there are so many circumstances where people are on the verge of life and death, and I just.

[Charlie Kirk]

So let me ask you a question. Do you think it's biblical if you're hungry to be able to steal money from a grocery store?

[Hispanic American Caller]

No.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, then how is it any different to break into somebody's country?

[Hispanic American Caller]

What about Moses leaving the Pharaoh or Moses getting the Israelites out of Pharaoh? That was illegally breaking federal law.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on. First of all, he was leaving a country to the desert. He wasn't immigrating to a new country.

[Concerned Caller]

Right, right.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. And so that's number one. Number two, again, it's very clear you're not allowed to take other people's property. That's one of the Ten Commandments. Thou shall not steal.

[Hispanic American Caller]

Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

So breaking into a country uninvited is stealing.

[Hispanic American Caller]

So do you think that, you know, the US Coming and stealing the land from the Native Americans, you think that was morally right?

[Concerned Caller]

No.

[Charlie Kirk]

I mean, we did a lot of things wrong, and a lot of it's overblown. Yeah.

[Hispanic American Caller]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

However, that doesn't answer the question, so. Especially when it comes to the movement of people. The Bible is very clear on borders, sovereignty and the distillation of culture.

[Hispanic American Caller]

Right.

[Charlie Kirk]

And that specific Proverbs verse is not towards government policy, but towards the individual. We should care about people.

[Hispanic American Caller]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

And I could apply that verse right now to us turning a blind eye to. I'm sure you'd agree with abortion happening in America, right? And a blind eye to the child mutilation happening in America.

[Hispanic American Caller]

Okay.

[George]

When I was growing up, I try to help somebody. I'm gonna make this quick. I try to help somebody when I didn't have an enough money and I went to bed hungry that night and I was too embarrassed to ask my dad for money because he was already helping me.

[Concerned Caller]

Right.

[George]

And my dad taught me a lesson that day that changed my life. He goes, only a fool helps another man when he himself can't help himself. So prepare your home, right? Get the establishment, right. Get the foundation right. Then we go extend our hand to our neighbors. But if our home is divided, if we are hurting, we need to put our resources back to the soil, get it back to where it needs to be. Then we look at our neighbors and we divide and we help.

[Hispanic American Caller]

Okay, so you're saying that this country is not in a good state to help right now.

[George]

I think they pushed God out and we could obviously see that we're in.

[Charlie Kirk]

Debt, we're depressed, we're sick, we're diseased, we can't own homes. I mean, we're crime ridden. We are not in a place right now. We should help. We should help our own people.

[Hispanic American Caller]

Yeah, I agree with the border policies that you are pushing. Right. It's better for the economy, better for citizens. But what I'm more talking about is the people that need to flee their land.

[Charlie Kirk]

I think, I think you're over exaggerating the need to flee the land. If that's the case, then the entire does to be consistent, should all of Central America be allowed into America?

[Hispanic American Caller]

No, but not in the 1980s. There was like that situation where my mom was in.

[Charlie Kirk]

But hold on, this is another important point. Why did she not flee to Mexico?

[Hispanic American Caller]

But isn't that illegal? Legally doing the wrong thing too?

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on, but this is important though. Is that because Mexico doesn't put up with it. Right, but we do. That's the point.

[Hispanic American Caller]

So you're saying that she should have stayed and died?

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm not saying what she should have done. All right. But I am saying though that she did something not in the right. Right in the eyes of God. And I'm sure She's repented for that. And so she broke the law and broke the customs and then lied about it actively. Right. So that's not good.

[Hispanic American Caller]

Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

And it's not a good example for us to raise kids. Be like, yeah, I broke into somebody else's home and took their stuff and lied about it and deceived it. That's pretty immoral.

[Hispanic American Caller]

Yeah, that's a good point. Second question, do you, Would you, if Donald Trump turned away from the word of God and the other candidate started pushing more to the word of God, would you change your vote?

[Charlie Kirk]

Given the current circumstances, there's no quite danger of that. Right.

[Hispanic American Caller]

But I'm just asking in general if that were to.

[Charlie Kirk]

I mean, look, there's limitations to it. I wish Donald Trump was more pro life right now, but I super appreciate his moral clarity on the border. Child, sex trafficking, trans issues.

[Hispanic American Caller]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

But yes, if a candidate, regardless of who they are, no longer have a worldview that fits my own, I will not support that same.

[George]

If, if a toddler comes running for president, but he's pushing the gospel, I'm voting for the toddler. I don't vote for Trump because I like everything that Trump brings to the table, but I know that he represents my God. So when he's speaking, he's not ashamed to speak about Jesus. King David was a good king, but he still sinned and he still fell short. But he had his eyes on God. And as long as you're morally correct with Christ, then that you have my vote. I'm not trying to make America great again. I'm trying to make America fear God again.

[Hispanic American Caller]

Amen. Yeah, that's good. All right, guys, I appreciate it.

[Charlie Kirk]

Have a great day.

[George]

Have a great one, bro.

[Charlie Kirk]

Thank you.

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[Candace Owens]

This is more of a point of inquiry with the right in regards to Israel and Palestine. We have seen a lot of disagreements. You know, Candace Owens, now more pro Palestine. Meanwhile you have Ben Shapiro and they say more the mainstream right has solidified around Israel. Which position are you on personally?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, I'm pro America first and foremost, but I love Israel and I think our relationship with Israel has a really important role geopolitically and also morally. And there's a series of questions I could ask. I don't know what side of it you're on, but yeah, you know, there's.

[Candace Owens]

A very good quote from Hamlet. A plague on both. Not Hamlet, Romeo and Juliet, a plague on both your houses. I will not side with Islamic fundamentalists. On the other hand, I think Israel, they would justify when the hostage were taken, but I think they have destabilized the region to an extent.

[Charlie Kirk]

They're still hostages, right?

[Candace Owens]

I'm as grim as it is. I mean the Israelis, whatever else you can say about, they have spent a year doing nothing but looking for these people. And Hamas, I'm not necessarily sure Hamas is great at leaving people alive. My grandpa is from Ireland. They had a terrorist group as well. And once they, and if you know anything about them, people were captured, tend to not come back.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, so I mean, that's fine. I answered the question. And then the fundamental question is, do you believe the Jewish people have a right to their ancestral homeland?

[Candace Owens]

I think they do.

[Charlie Kirk]

So we agree.

[Candace Owens]

I agree on that. But I would also say that with their current invasion of Lebanon, especially bombing peacekeepers who are, I mean, the UN probably shouldn't be there to begin with, but probably still shouldn't be bombing their guys. I think they're destabilizing. If you look at us, ever since the Carter administration, we've done nothing to try and build a system. We forced the Egyptians and Israelis to agree to something. We forced the Lebanese civil war to end. And I do feel the Israelis are putting that system that we put in place that until recently did preserve their security in jeopardy. And I think they should still have a right to exist. But I don't think we should be. We should be putting more pressure on them to be like, hey, we spent a lot of time building this, man. We can't let you destroy it.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's a fair point. I don't know if I agree with all of it, but thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thank you. All right, Disagreements, guys, as you want to come up here? Yeah, sure.

[Candace Owens]

Where do I go?

[Charlie Kirk]

Out. Good luck. If you guys would allow the people make room for the people with the hands up, we would appreciate it. Yes, thank you. All right.

[Questioning Caller]

Hello, my name is Ranger. It's nice to meet. All right. Hello, my name is Ranger. It's nice to meet you both. So I have two questions for you, the first of which is you were talking about, you want an America that fears God. But it's believed to be back to the fundamentals of when this country was started and the Constitution was made that there's supposed to be a separation of church and state. But it seems you don't believe that anymore.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, where does it say that in the U.S. constitution?

[Questioning Caller]

It was written in the Constitution. I don't exactly remember what part, but it has been written.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's not actually. So. And that's okay. I'm going to help you out here. There's the free expression clause and the establishment clause. So what you're thinking is of the First Amendment. What you're thinking of is that Congress shall make no law prohibiting or promoting the exercise of religion or the free exercise thereof. Now, mind you, the separation of church and state is not in the U.S. constitution. And that's okay. Not a lot of people know this. It is from a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1803 to the Danbury Baptist Convention in Massachusetts saying to the church, the government will not come after you. There was no question at the time of the founding that God played a central role in all of our government. In fact, God is there in four times mentioned in the Declaration of Independence and never should we. And you would agree there should never be separation of morality and state.

[Questioning Caller]

But then I have another question, not the second question, but do you believe there should be a separation between those two things, church and state?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, it depends on. Well, let's play it out. Do we currently have that during COVID the government was able to shut down the church? Should that be allowed?

[Questioning Caller]

I mean, I don't believe so, no.

[Concerned Caller]

Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

So the point is that we don't even have separation church and state because the state was able to tell the church Whether or not that you could practice on Easter. Now, that's the standard that they currently have. Do I believe in a separation of morality and state? Of course not. Now, the morality that built the west is the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments is the best rules of life for any society to flourish and to be able to succeed. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall have no other idols. You shall not take the Lord's name in vain. Honor your mother and fathers may live long in the land of which you are in. Honor the Sabbath day and keep it holy. Do not murder, do not steal, do not, you know, bear false witness. Do not covet, do not commit adultery. It's out of order. But that's still the Ten Commandments. That those rules for life is what the founders believed, so much so that they're in the halls of Congress and the Supreme Court. That we believe is transcendently transmitted to us, and that when we do not submit to those Ten Commandments, our country starts to fall apart.

[Questioning Caller]

But if you think about it, most wars, and when religion gets entangled into a culture and even government, most wars have started because of that.

[Charlie Kirk]

So that's a talking point that has no basis. And that's okay because a professor told you that. So let's go to the truth, and I'm going to ask you a couple questions. What religion did Mao Zedong believe in, the great murderer of China who killed 50 million people?

[Questioning Caller]

I don't know.

[Charlie Kirk]

He was an atheist. What religion did Joseph Stalin believe in who killed over 30 million people of the Soviet Union? He was an atheist. So that's 80 million people murdered in two countries in just the 20th century that did not believe in any religion. So it's an easy talking point to say that religion causes war, but in reality, it seems as if actually totalitarian dictatorships rooted in atheism and a lack of the divine is what caused more human suffering in the 20th century than not. Adolf Hitler was not a Christian. Adolf Hitler was at war with God and thought he was God and a total maniac. So there is no basis for what you're saying. You might be thinking about like the Crusades or something like six or seven hundred years ago, or the Inquisition. If that's the. If that's the case, I think you need a better argument, because religion actually keeps people sane, free and moral, not towards war and conflict.

[Questioning Caller]

But isn't the war that's currently occurring in Israel and Palestine over religion and their land?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes and no. It's more over territories and boundaries. Of course they're religious wars, but if you look at the major wars over the last 30 or 40 years, even some are religious, some are not. But Russia and Ukraine, are they fighting over religion?

[Questioning Caller]

No.

[Charlie Kirk]

No. Or Central African Republic, civil war. Are they fighting over religion? No. So it's an easy talking point. There really is no truth to it in the modern era.

[Questioning Caller]

Okay, so my other question for you. So my other question is, I know you believe there is something wrong with being lgbtq, fundamentally.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no, no. I don't believe it. I believe what my religion teaches me.

[Questioning Caller]

Okay, so on that, why do you believe there's something wrong with being lgbtq?

[Charlie Kirk]

Again? So I independently don't come to these beliefs. I believe in what nature teaches us, but most importantly, what the scriptures teach us. And there's a qu. There's more important point. I don't believe anybody is lgbtq. You act a certain way. There's only two distinctions. They're saved and unsaved. That's why it says in the scriptures in Leviticus, a man shall not lie with another man like he does a woman. It's the behavior that is prohibited by God.

[Questioning Caller]

But there's been so many studies, and it's been proven that you don't become this way. You don't just magically one day wake up and say, oh, I'm gay now.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's not my contention.

[Questioning Caller]

Are born this way.

[Charlie Kirk]

But you make a decision whether or not to act on it. Right. So, for example, people have impulses to cheat on their wife, commit adultery. Is that morally wrong?

[Questioning Caller]

Yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

So adultery is morally wrong, but why is homosexuality not morally wrong?

[Questioning Caller]

Because that's just an impulse.

[Charlie Kirk]

That is, every man will tell you there's an impulse to cheat on your girlfriend or to potentially your wife.

[Questioning Caller]

That's not an impulse. That is a decision you consciously make.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on a second. No, it's not. It's an impulse built into male sexual behavior. Yes, it is. Okay. I hate to break it to you. Every man will tell you that you're wrong, that male nature is to sleep with as many women as possible.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Charlie Kirk]

Email us.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

As always, freedomarliekirk.com thanks so much for listening and God bless.

[George]

For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.