The Toughest "Prove Me Wrong" Ever?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Charlie Kirk Show – "The Toughest 'Prove Me Wrong' Ever?"

Episode Information:

• Title: The Toughest "Prove Me Wrong" Ever?
• Host: Charlie Kirk
• Release Date: November 20, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of The Charlie Kirk Show, host Charlie Kirk engages in a rigorous and unfiltered dialogue with audience members tackling some of the most contentious issues in American society. The discussions primarily revolve around abortion rights, systemic racism, and the safety of children online, reflecting Kirk's staunch conservative viewpoints.

Abortion Debate: Life Begins at Conception

The episode opens with a heated exchange between Charlie Kirk and a UNLV student, Audrey, centered on the contentious topic of abortion.

• Defining Life: Kirk posits that life begins at conception, emphasizing the formation of DNA and the initiation of a human journey at that moment. At [00:17], Kirk asserts, “Your entire journey as a human being started” at conception.

• Opposing Views: Audrey challenges Kirk's stance by questioning the dependence of a woman's right to choose on his viewpoint. She states, “I do not believe that that is true” ([02:05]), prompting a back-and-forth on the scientific basis of when life begins.

• Late-Stage Abortions: The conversation delves into late-stage abortions, with Kirk advocating for their illegality except in cases where the mother's life is at risk. At [03:05], he asserts, “Obviously, I believe it should be illegal,” differentiating between abortion and medical procedures necessary to save the mother’s life.

• Moral and Ethical Implications: Audrey raises ethical concerns about whether a being not yet alive outside the womb should have rights. Kirk counters by equating abortion to murder, arguing that all human beings deserve protection from birth. At [05:10], he challenges, “If someone is not wanted, should they be allowed to be murdered?”

Systemic Racism and Wealth Gaps

A significant portion of the episode features a debate with an unnamed student regarding systemic racism and economic disparities.

• Disparities in Income and Education: The student highlights the systemic racial wealth gap, stating, “There are disparities in education, disparities in income” ([11:30]). Kirk counters by questioning the existence of laws that favor one race over another, insisting that disparities can result from various factors beyond racism.

• Affirmative Action: The discussion touches on affirmative action, with Kirk advocating for its repeal. At [26:19], he states, “So we should repeal affirmative action and say that we're only going to hire people based on merit, not on race.”

• Citing Research: Kirk references the Brookings Institution to support his claims that family structure, particularly the presence of fathers, significantly affects outcomes for black youth. He asserts, “[...] when you have kids that are being raised without dads, you're setting them up on a course for permanent failure” ([22:48]).

• Economic Theories: Introducing Thomas Sowell's perspectives, Kirk argues that blaming systemic racism oversimplifies complex socioeconomic dynamics. At [17:26], he mentions Sowell's Discrimination and Disparities to illustrate alternative explanations for racial disparities.

Protecting Children Online: Transgender Curriculum and Hormonal Therapy

Another key segment involves a conversation with Poppy, the creator of Mantis Girl, focusing on the safety of children online and the complexities surrounding transgender education and therapy.

• Online Predators: Poppy raises concerns about online predators and the inadequacy of current societal measures to protect children. Kirk responds by connecting this issue to the introduction of “graphic transgender curriculum” in schools, suggesting that comprehensive sexual education could mitigate some online dangers.

• Transgender Therapy for Minors: The dialogue progresses to discuss hormonal therapy for transgender minors. Kirk advocates for restricting access to such treatments, emphasizing the potential for irreversible damage. He states, “We should probably say, hey, this is more of a brain issue than a body issue, and let's try to do counseling” ([08:48]).

• Mental Health Focus: Both participants agree on the necessity of making mental health services more accessible, with Kirk highlighting the importance of cognitive behavioral therapy over medical interventions for transgender youth.

Audience Interaction: Challenging Views

The episode features intense exchanges with multiple audience members, challenging Kirk on his viewpoints.

• Reproductive Rights and Religious Arguments: An unaffiliated Christian listener questions Kirk's stance on abortion, prompting a theological and ethical discussion. Kirk defends his position by framing abortion as murder, drawing parallels to the illegality of murder in society.

• Life Before Viability: The conversation touches upon the point of viability and the rights of fetuses versus born individuals. Kirk maintains that regardless of viability, abortion constitutes the termination of a human being, reinforcing his pro-life stance.

• Adoption as an Alternative: In response to concerns about unwanted pregnancies resulting from rape or incest, Kirk advocates for adoption, citing the existence of over two million families waiting to adopt children. He argues that adoption provides a loving alternative to abortion.

Conclusions and Final Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Charlie Kirk remains steadfast in his conservative positions, emphasizing the sanctity of life, the importance of traditional family structures, and the need for merit-based systems free from racial favoritism. Despite contentious debates, Kirk consistently seeks to outline his rationale, aiming to persuade listeners to his viewpoint.

Notable Quotes:

• On Life Beginning at Conception:
  “Your entire journey as a human being started” – [00:17] Charlie Kirk

• On Late-Stage Abortion:
  “Obviously, I believe it should be illegal.” – [03:05] Charlie Kirk

• On Affirmative Action:
  “So we should repeal affirmative action and say that we're only going to hire people based on merit, not on race.” – [26:19] Charlie Kirk

• On Murder and Abortion:
  “We all agree murder is wrong. We all agree it's a Homo sapien. Therefore murder is the forcible termination of a Homo sapien. Therefore, shouldn't abortion be wrong and illegal?” – [29:00] Charlie Kirk

• On Narcissism and Abortion:
  “It's narcissism. I think you're totally right. It's weaponized medical narcissism.” – [37:55] Charlie Kirk

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Final Remarks: This episode of The Charlie Kirk Show underscores the host's commitment to confronting and debating deeply entrenched societal issues. Through direct engagement with audience members, Kirk articulates his conservative ideology, aiming to challenge prevailing liberal narratives and advocate for policies aligned with his vision of American values.

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

Hey, everybody. Enjoy this episode. Become a member. Members.charliekirk.com that is members.charliekirk. com email us. As always, freedomarlykirk.com and become a member to support this program. Buckle up, everybody.

Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

[Audrey]

Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

[Charlie Kirk]

I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here.

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[Audrey]

Hello, my name is Audrey. I'm a UNLV student. And I just wanted to ask.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's a good book.

[Audrey]

Oh, yeah, I love it. I wanted to ask what your personal beliefs on when life begins in. For a pregnant woman.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. Conception. Why? Because that is when you're. That is when your DNA was formed and your entire journey as a human being started.

[Audrey]

Okay, well, so what about people who believe differently than you? Why should my right to choose be dependent on your viewpoint?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, I guess the other question is, do you think that there is right science and wrong science?

[Audrey]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, so science will prove me correct, for example.

[Audrey]

Science does not prove you correct.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, let me. Let me. Let me build it out. How tall you are, how tall you are, your eye color, your weight disparity, your tastes, your likes, your dislikes were all put into place at that moment of conception.

[Audrey]

I do not believe that that is true.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, it actually is true. So it's called DNA. It's called deoxyribonucleic acid. So, for example, how tall you are right now or how tall you could be absent a medical intervention. Your eye color, your skin color, your hair color was all decided at that moment. So, basically, the blueprint for your life came into being at that moment, therefore, is your life. It is the beginning of your life. And what distinguishes you from your mother is that you have two separate forms of DNA. So I believe you should be able to do what you want with your body. And I believe that everybody should be able to not be interfered with in their body. Therefore, if it's not your DNA, it's not your choice.

[Audrey]

Okay, let's move on from that. That's not because I'm wrong. It's because I don't have time. Now, now, Charlie, I have a question. When it comes to like late stage abortions, like really, really late stage, how are your stances on that?

[Charlie Kirk]

Obviously, I believe it should be illegal. Yeah.

[Audrey]

What about if it will literally kill the mother?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes, that's a separate medical procedure, not an abortion.

[Audrey]

No, it is the same medical.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's actually called the septic to me. And according to kills women. According to Planned Parenthood's own website, up until recently it was a distinc and separate medical procedure, not called an abortion. That's planned parent its own website for 30 years. And so yes, if a mother's life is at risk, that is a separate medical procedure. For example, amniotic sac tour.

[Audrey]

So then you're okay with fluid going in that point. So then why is that different?

[Charlie Kirk]

But let's be very clear. In late stage abortion, you would both agree we should probably try a cesarean section before a termination. What is your opinion on cesarean sections?

[Audrey]

I'm a C section baby. I think it's perfectly true.

[Charlie Kirk]

But both my kids are. So let me ask a question. If a baby was risking the mom's life, why shouldn't we try to deliver the baby and not terminate it?

[Audrey]

There's no reason why you shouldn't deliver.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay. That's what we agree. So the point is that instead of aborting it, try to make it live and do a C section. Like you said, you're a C section baby. I'm glad you lived. I'm glad you weren't aborted.

[Audrey]

You know, a lot of people say the like, what if you were aborted? And it's just.

[Charlie Kirk]

I didn't say that. I said I'm glad you.

[Audrey]

I know you didn't say that, but I'm just saying a lot of people do say that. And personally I would rather my mom have the ability to choose if she has a baby that is wanted over forcing.

[Charlie Kirk]

Define wanted.

[Audrey]

Wanting a baby is wanting a baby. If I.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's not a definition. That's repeating the phrase.

[Audrey]

Anyways, so.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no, no, because it's important. Define wanted.

[Audrey]

So wanting something is.

[Charlie Kirk]

So for example, I'm not wanted on many college campuses, do I have a right to show up There.

[Audrey]

Oh, wow. Okay, so that's where we're going with this.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no, no. Define wanted. You're obviously not dumb. You're reading the Iliad. Tell me, what is wanted? Me.

[Audrey]

You want something and you go out of your way to get it. Right.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, again, it's not a definition. But the point is that why should want.

[Audrey]

The definition of wanted is a very hard thing to define in this way.

[Charlie Kirk]

Exactly. So that this is the essence of it. Why should want be correlated with moral worth? If someone is not wanted, should they be allowed to be murdered?

[Audrey]

It's not murder.

[Charlie Kirk]

And that's what. That's why we disagree. Okay, if it's a human being, shouldn't a human being.

[Audrey]

It's not a human being. It's a clump of cells.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, okay, hold on. Hold on, guys. Hold on. So I'm a clump of cells and you are a clump of cells?

[Audrey]

It is a clump of cells.

[Charlie Kirk]

One second.

[Audrey]

No brain with no heart, nothing.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's not correct.

[Audrey]

Yes, it is true.

[Charlie Kirk]

At eight weeks, a heartbeat. At eight weeks, a heartbeat develops. At 10 weeks, brain waves are detected. DNA well before that, but. And they could feel pain up to 15 weeks. However, I just want to be clear. What species is the fetus?

[Audrey]

It can be a human fetus. Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, wait. If it's a human fetus, then doesn't it get human rights?

[Audrey]

It's not a human yet.

[Charlie Kirk]

But you said it's a human. At what point?

[Audrey]

It's a human fetus.

[Charlie Kirk]

That is a different thing. At what point does it magically become a human?

[Audrey]

When it can survive outside of the womb.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's when I personally. So viability. So a baby born in NICU that requires assistance from a dialysis machine or breathing machine, is that a human being?

[Audrey]

Sure.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, but I thought you said it can't survive on its own outside of the womb.

[Audrey]

That is a different thing.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, it's not. The point is that.

[Unnamed Student]

Hey, hey, hey.

[Audrey]

What? I said, final question.

[Charlie Kirk]

Final question.

If a mom finds out she's having.

A Down syndrome baby, should she be allowed to terminate it? Yes. You see, we have disagreement. I think down syndrome kids are a gift from the Lord. And some of the most happy, joyful kids that should not be cast aside and terminated just because you get a blood test that you don't like. Thank you very much for your question. We obviously don't agree.

[Poppy]

I am Poppy. I am the creator of Mantis Girl. I'm an ex sex worker. She are pronouns. Anyways, I think that there's A really big issue when it comes to keeping our kids safe. There's a lot of predators on the Internet, and I don't think we, as a society are doing enough to keep our kids safe. So what do you think about that?

[Charlie Kirk]

I agree.

[Poppy]

So how do. So do you think that there's any things that we should implement in order to keep our kids safe? Because I don't think there's enough.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, I guess one question I would have for you is, do you think that graphic transgender curriculum should be taught to kids?

[Poppy]

Graphic transgender curriculum? I think there's a. A big importance of teaching sexual education just so we could teach our kids what to stay away from on the Internet, because we are allowing our kids onto very dangerous websites, and they don't know what to stay away from.

[Charlie Kirk]

So, yes, I mean, I think we can agree on that, but he's great. So do you have another question?

[Poppy]

I think that there are two. I think that the system for trans people to get hormonal therapy is pretty messed up because there's a lot of people who lie their way through therapy, and then they end up regretting it.

[Charlie Kirk]

In the future, can we agree and have common ground maybe, that minors should not be able to receive those drugs? Don't speak for Poppy.

[Poppy]

I disagree. I think don't boot.

[Charlie Kirk]

Don't don't boo, Poppy.

[Poppy]

I think therapy should be more open because where. Because people are encouraged to lie, both from the transgender community and from the healthcare system.

[Charlie Kirk]

Can we agree destroying kids. The therapy, though, that involves drugs or surgery should be reserved to adults.

[Poppy]

I think hormonal blockers should be legal no matter what. Hormonal therapy, it's a. I think it's much more debatable.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay. Yeah. Our. My position is that we should not give children something when they might be in a phase that could be irreversibly damaging to them. And if a kid is in a certain phase, especially a young lady, because 75% of all trans youth that receive hormonal therapy are young women, that we should probably say, hey, this is more of a brain issue than a body issue, and let's try to do counseling. Let's try to do cognitive behavioral therapy, not try to say that we're going to butcher you irreversibly.

[Poppy]

Therapy needs to be much more accessible. It's terrible.

[Charlie Kirk]

We agree. Okay. Thank you, poppy.

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[Unnamed Student]

So first I'd like to kind of talk about what you just did about the $750 thing that was funded through the federal government in the Senate, which Trump has controlled. So I don't really see how we can equate that to the war in Ukraine, although I do agree that absolutely the war in Ukraine needs to stop. We're sending too many resources there. However, I don't believe that's fair to say. However, my original question was our country is so fraught with oppression, racism and sexism. And what I want to ask you is if your entire, if the entire campaign is about making America great again, when are we going back to?

[Charlie Kirk]

1985 would be nice.

[Unnamed Student]

1985. So let's talk about wealth gaps. White men make more money than women, more money than black men and black women.

[Charlie Kirk]

Why is that?

[Unnamed Student]

Because there is a systemic racial wealth gap in education. Let me finish.

[Charlie Kirk]

I know your arguments before you give them, but sure, go ahead. I'll put my mic down. You talk.

[Unnamed Student]

Thank you. So there's disparities in education, there's disparities in income, there's disparities in how people were raised. And those are because of systems that Americans have put into place through policy and that I think we need to be focusing on the future of America rather than going back in time where oppression was even more rampant than it is today. We still have a lot to fix, but I just don't see how we can go back and say that it was a perfect America when obviously it.

[Charlie Kirk]

Wasn'T, when no one says it was perfect. But let me ask you a question. So we have a disparity.

[Unnamed Student]

Yes, sir.

[Charlie Kirk]

Is there any other explanation other than racism that might explain disparities?

[Unnamed Student]

I think there's a lot of systemic trials that affect people every day. I think it's systemic. Yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

So, okay, since it's systemic, can you point to one law that favors a white person but hurts a black person?

[Unnamed Student]

That's the thing, though, right? Is that it shouldn't be in law. It's not in our law, but it happens every day.

[Charlie Kirk]

But then where is it?

[Unnamed Student]

Look around.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no, no, hold on. No, you're talking about a disparity. Show me a law or a system that is. Show me a specific thing.

[Unnamed Student]

But I'm giving you examples.

[Charlie Kirk]

You know that there's other reasons that you have disparities other than racism.

[Unnamed Student]

Okay, well, can you explain those disparities to me?

[Charlie Kirk]

For example, whether or not you have a father around?

[Unnamed Student]

Yes. And actually, we can look at that from a racial perspective.

[Charlie Kirk]

Totally.

So let's try to figure it out. Why is it that in 1965, 25% of black youth were raised by a single mom? Now it's 70%. What changed?

[Unnamed Student]

So, I mean, I think what.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, I mean. Yeah, but what changed? Like, what law made that happen?

[Unnamed Student]

I think people being more aware of racism and stuff. Like, I think.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no, the single mother, the fatherless rate went down. Meaning, like, only one out of four blacks in America right now have a dad around. Why is that?

[Unnamed Student]

There are, like, studies about African American marriage and how the family, the family institution is different than the average white American family. We prioritize as the white American. We prioritize a nuclear family, a family with a husband, a wife, kids and a dog. And that ideal family has been perpetrated throughout or really centuries, that those people are white. And those people. That's the picture of what an ideal American family is.

[Charlie Kirk]

Do you think we should have more black dads around?

[Unnamed Student]

I think that's an unfair question. I don't think that's a fair question. Because what you're saying is. You're saying there's a difference between.

[Charlie Kirk]

Of course there is. There's a difference between. And by the way, you know who agrees with me? Barack Obama.

[Unnamed Student]

Well, that's cool. I'm not actually. I was a Trump supporter in. During the Obama campaign.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's great. But that didn't make any sense because Trump wasn't running for president.

[Unnamed Student]

Well, I was supporting Obama after. Or I suppose supported Trump after Obama.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, great. So let me just be clear, though. Just that according to Brookings Institution, which is A super left wing organization says that if you have a father around, you're less likely to go to jail, less likely to commit crimes, more likely to have raising wages. And it's self evidently true. When you're raised by both a mom and a dad, you get the blend of masculine and feminine, you get the blend of discipline and.

[Unnamed Student]

No, but that's what I'm saying. That's the nuclear family.

[Charlie Kirk]

You're right. It's the best. It's the best standard living.

[Unnamed Student]

But is it?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes. Show me a better one.

[Unnamed Student]

But I'm telling.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no, no. Show me. Burden of proof on you. Show me a better way to raise people.

[Unnamed Student]

I'm just saying that there are other ways. Like a parent.

[Charlie Kirk]

What ways work better? Be specific.

[Unnamed Student]

Okay, well, if we're gonna do this, let me get back to my original question, which you have yet to answer.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no, no, no.

[Poppy]

What?

[Unnamed Student]

No, but it's true.

[Charlie Kirk]

I want to go back because it all comes back to dads.

[Unnamed Student]

Wait, okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, it does. Let me ask you a question. Do you think that systemic racism or dads not being around, which one's a bigger issue in America?

[Unnamed Student]

Systemic racism, Absolutely. I think. I think systemic racism has more of a violent. Can I.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, but be specific. How do I know when I see systemic race? How do I get rid of it? What?

[Unnamed Student]

I already told you.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, but what law is systemically racist? Is there one?

[Unnamed Student]

Not that I could think of over the top of my head.

[Charlie Kirk]

But I thought it's in our systems, there must be a law. I want to get rid of it.

[Unnamed Student]

Only legal systems. Our systems are healthcare. Our systems are the family. Those are institutions. Hold on.

[Charlie Kirk]

Is it, is it legal to discriminate against someone based on their race in America?

[Unnamed Student]

It's not legal, but it happens all the time.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, it. No, it doesn't. Oh, you're right. White people get discriminated against every day. You're totally right.

[Unnamed Student]

Oh, no, that's not what I said. I said that's not what I said.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, you said people get discriminated against their skin color. And there is active discrimination against white people in this country far more than black Americans.

[Unnamed Student]

That is a crazy statement.

[Charlie Kirk]

Wait, hold on.

[Unnamed Student]

That is a crazy statement.

[Charlie Kirk]

Let me give you an example. To go into college, if you're a black American, your test scores are 30% lower. And you get in there, you want a job in corporate America, you have a seat at the table.

[Unnamed Student]

You being paid. If you're in a corporate table, first black. No, you're not.

[Charlie Kirk]

Actually, black Americans are on Par. If they studied the same thing, that is the same job environment.

[Unnamed Student]

That is literally not true.

[Charlie Kirk]

Here's the essence of it. I think it's so interesting. You see a disparity, so you see a gap and you scream racism.

[Unnamed Student]

No, that's not what I'm doing. I'm.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes, you have actually. But let me tell you, let me.

[Unnamed Student]

Look, I'm trying to tell you my perspective. I'm trying to examine what the disparities and effects.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right.

[Unnamed Student]

Yes, exactly.

[Charlie Kirk]

Let me finish. So we take a Thomas Soul view. Who you know. You know Thomas Soul, right?

[Unnamed Student]

Yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

Who is Thomas Sowell?

[Unnamed Student]

I don't know. Go ahead.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, hold on.

[Unnamed Student]

How could you even go ahead with your point?

[Charlie Kirk]

But okay. It's a great book called Discrimination and Disparities where he argues that it is an immature view to act. Wow, there's a disparity. It must be racism. There are hundreds of other contributing factors. Let me give you an example. Have you ever heard of first born privilege?

[Unnamed Student]

Yes, I have.

[Charlie Kirk]

So first born privilege is that if you are the first born kid, you're more likely to have a higher income, more likely to gain wealth, less likely to go to prison just because you got more attention from your family. How about this? How about coastal and river privilege? Ever heard this one?

[Unnamed Student]

I've never heard of that.

[Charlie Kirk]

If you are close to a body of water, it's more likely that your city is rich because you're a port of entry, you have more tourists. So people born in Miami or Philadelphia. Let me finish. Are actually richer than people in Topeka, Kansas, just because they're inland. What I'm getting at is there are hundreds of other explanations.

[Unnamed Student]

Absolutely.

[Charlie Kirk]

More than just systemic racism.

[Unnamed Student]

Oh, I absolutely agree.

[Charlie Kirk]

And the biggest of which is when you have kids that are being raised without dads, you're setting them up on a course for permanent failure.

[Unnamed Student]

And I agree, like there's a whole array of issues. But I do think racism is an issue that we need to address and shouldn't be covered.

[Charlie Kirk]

Got it. So give me, give me an example of racism in America that is macro, not micro.

[Unnamed Student]

I mean, you're going, you're going over the same endless.

[Charlie Kirk]

Give me a macro example of racism that affects all people, not just one person being a jerk to another. Give me a macro example of racism.

[Unnamed Student]

The gender, wealth or.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no, wealth gap. That is, that's a disparity, that's not racism. Racism is an action, not a result. You gotta show me an action. Red line. It doesn't exist anymore. Show me an action.

[Unnamed Student]

Yes, it does.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, it doesn't. It's illegal under 5, 500 different banking laws.

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Show me an example right now of a racist law, a racist custom, erasive or no, show me anything Macro.

[Unnamed Student]

So I graduated from Greenville, North Carolina. The Brown v. Board of Education banned segregation. My school did not complete the fully integrated status until like 2016. So the dragging feet of our systems, like, that's an example of it. Because that keeps perpetuating these problems that sure don't only have to do with racism, but racism is a part.

[Charlie Kirk]

No. Okay, so I got macro. You even said brown beef education got rid of segregation.

[Unnamed Student]

Yes, but what I'm saying is that the actual, like, processes of getting rid of segregation took a long time.

[Charlie Kirk]

And that is both black communities and white communities resisted integration in certain neighborhoods. Is that. That's correct, right?

[Unnamed Student]

Yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

So it's not just the white person. A lot of black communities are like, well, we don't want to go to the schools.

[Unnamed Student]

But why. Why would they want to do. Why would they not want.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, so actually, let's define some common ground. I think that this is interesting. Do you think that on over 130 college campuses there are things called black only dormitories? Do you think that that Is a good thing or a bad thing?

[Unnamed Student]

I think it's hard because I think it's important for people to have. Let me please finish.

[Charlie Kirk]

I feel like you just said segregation was wrong.

[Unnamed Student]

No, I. It is, but that's not segregation.

[Charlie Kirk]

Black only.

[Unnamed Student]

Can I. Can I finish my thought? Can I finish? Can I. Can I finish my thought, please? Guys, half of you are in white only sororities. Let's.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, no, but hold on.

[Unnamed Student]

So let's. Let's, let's, let's. Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

Please finish your thought.

[Unnamed Student]

I'm just waiting. Okay, so my thought is, I think it's important for people who face oppressive oppression to have communities like them. I'm not saying that white people shouldn't be allowed in there or black people shouldn't be allowed. That's not what I'm saying. That's not what I said. That's not what I ever said. I said that people who face oppression every single day sometimes need the community of people who are also oppressed. That's all I'm saying.

[Charlie Kirk]

Got it. So what law is oppressing black people?

[Unnamed Student]

You've asked this 400.

[Charlie Kirk]

Because your whole. Your whole argument is built on a mythology. Give me. So give me. Let me be more specific. No, no, no. Let me be more specific. What is oppressing black people?

[Unnamed Student]

Education, Family. Oh, my. Because think about the graduation rates. Graduation rates are lower for black people.

[Charlie Kirk]

Because they don't have dads around. You see, you cannot.

[Unnamed Student]

I think that in itself is.

[Charlie Kirk]

You are focusing. You're focusing on effects. I'm focusing on causes. And your argument is built on causes, and then you go to effects. So causes is racism as an action. So you have to give me examples of causes, not just go to effects. Yes, because there's other explanations for effects. So, for example, if you were to say, charlie, it's illegal for a black person to go to a gas station in the 1950s, your argument would have been correct. So you have to give me causes. You just can't go to effects and change the argument.

[Unnamed Student]

Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

Does that make sense?

[Unnamed Student]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

So. So tell me one thing that is oppressing a black person as an effect?

[Unnamed Student]

I think that as a cause.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm sorry? As a cause, I really.

[Unnamed Student]

I still think, like, education. Like, that is how.

[Charlie Kirk]

So are black individuals given scholarships at this school?

[Unnamed Student]

Yes, absolutely. But look.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, more than white people.

[Unnamed Student]

So look at graduation. But look at graduation rates.

[Charlie Kirk]

So why is it that graduation rates are lower for black individuals? Because dads aren't around putting pressure on the same school. And unfortunately, because affirmative action. Unfortunately, More and more black individuals are going to colleges that they're not qualified for because the criteria is lowered for them. And so then you get lower graduation rates. That's not racism. It's a broken system.

[Unnamed Student]

I think this is a slippery slope.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, it's not. No, because this is so important. Because you came up and you said systemic racism and oppression. I need examples of causes of those things.

[Unnamed Student]

The causes of those things are so deeply ingrained.

[Charlie Kirk]

Like, then how do I know it when I see it? How do I know racism when.

[Unnamed Student]

When your wife, not necessarily your wife, but when someone you know turns, kind of hides their purse when there's a black person there, there are those tiny little. Or you lock the door, all your moms do it. Like be so for real. But I feel like, I feel like people do do it.

[Charlie Kirk]

But she's calling you guys all racist is what she's doing.

[Unnamed Student]

No, I'm not. It's actually kind of funny that I'm 18 years old and you're whatever, but.

[Charlie Kirk]

I, but I, I'm gonna try to let you off mercifully. It is, it is. It is very basic to say racism, all this. But I have hard pressed you. So in life you have effects. So for example, let me give you if all of a sudden I saw a dead body and you're like, dead body racism. No, no, no. You have to show me how the cause led to that. It could be dead body racism, it could be KKK lynching somebody. However, you need to go back to the cause. So you say, hey, disparity of wealth, disparity of this and all that, those are all effects. So what I need is, I need individualized and metered causes that can determinatively say that those effects are caused by racism. Because when not, you're dealing with incredibly complex systems. You're dealing with hundreds of millions of people that are communicating millions of times a day with lots of different input factors. And racism is just an easy cop out that is impossible to prove. Does that make sense? Because you can't give me a single.

[Unnamed Student]

Example, but there are examples.

[Charlie Kirk]

Then give me one.

[Unnamed Student]

I've given you so many throughout this entire thing. Okay, we're not, we're not gonna, You've.

[Charlie Kirk]

Given me effects, not causes.

[Unnamed Student]

But I appreciate you talking to me.

[Charlie Kirk]

Let me ask you just one last question. So, so kind of back to the black dormitory thing. Do we agree that no human being should be discriminated against based on their race?

[Unnamed Student]

Absolutely.

[Charlie Kirk]

So we should repeal affirmative action and say that we're only going to Hire people based on merit, not on race.

[Unnamed Student]

Yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

Great. We can appeal affirmative action. I think that's an awesome step forward.

[Unnamed Student]

I just want to start this out. I am unaffiliated, but I am a Christian who believes in the right to an abortion. And a lot of the things that you were talking about with her really had a lot of answers for that. So the reason I actually wrote this down on a notebook. Of course I was prepared. So the reason why I believe the right to an abortion, why just anyone? If you feel that's what you need to do, then you should do it. Because Matthew 7:1 says, do not judge or you too will be judged. Although Jesus does tell us to tell people, do not sin. It's not our place to judge them. You know, and then another thing that I wanted to bring up. This is. This is crazy. But also the time. I just really want to know why you feel that abortion should be illegal.

[Charlie Kirk]

Do you think murder should be illegal?

[Unnamed Student]

Murder is illegal.

[Charlie Kirk]

So you think it should be. Do you think it should be illegal?

[Unnamed Student]

I just feel like there's a big difference between, like, a living, breathing human and then a fetus that is inside of another human's body.

[Charlie Kirk]

Fair enough. What is the difference?

[Unnamed Student]

The difference is a fetus is inside of the body. You know what I'm saying? It can't live on its own.

[Charlie Kirk]

Got it. So let's go through a couple questions there. Why does somebody's location determine their moral worth?

[Unnamed Student]

It doesn't, but it's simply about the fact that if you feel like that's what you need to do with your body, then that's what you do. Because I could also be.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, hold on. Hold on a second. If it's not your DNA, how is it your body?

[Unnamed Student]

It is your DNA. It's a part of you. It's growing in you. It's connected to you by an umbilical cord. It is a part of you.

[Charlie Kirk]

One second. It's attached.

[Unnamed Student]

A part.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's attached. Hold on a second. It's attached not a part, because. No, it's actually not a part by definition. Means it remains permanent. Oh, okay, right. So an attachment is something that is temporary, and so it's not. You are not your mom's DNA. You're not your dad's DNA. You are new deoxyribonucleic acid. So shouldn't we say that if it's not your DNA, it's not your choice?

[Unnamed Student]

I mean, you could say that, but I mean, really, this is. I just don't understand how you can use religion to back up your point of.

[Charlie Kirk]

I haven't used it. Once she brought up religion, I'm happy to use a non religious line of questioning. We all agree murder is wrong.

[Unnamed Student]

Okay?

[Charlie Kirk]

We all agree that it's a human Homo sapien.

[Unnamed Student]

Do you agree that the death penalty is wrong?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, no, I'm actually in support of the death penalty because people do something that justifies that. But that's a separate issue because the baby in utero did not.

[Unnamed Student]

So what about the people who could possibly be proved innocent who have been awaiting their, like their death sentence?

[Charlie Kirk]

Fair enough. That's, that's a good art. That's a good argument, but it's, it's separate. Right? So there's been about 31 exonerations of posthumous people that have been exonerating the death penalty. We're talking about a baby that did nothing wrong except exist, okay, in utero. And there's about 1.5 million of them that just get discarded every year. So we agree murder is wrong. We agree it's a homo sapien, meaning it's a human being. Therefore murder is the forcible termination of a homo sapien. Therefore, shouldn't abortion be wrong and illegal?

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[Unnamed Student]

I still feel like it. Really? Like, okay, for example, but prove to.

[Charlie Kirk]

Me why you use an ABC logical equation, right? So tell me, under what standard? Therefore. Therefore. Very simple, right? You're in college. You guys do this all the time, right? I hope so. So use an abc, right? Aristotelian logic, whatever you want to use an ABC sequence for Me not I.

[Unnamed Student]

Feel reasoning why I believe that abortion should be legal is because of instances like rape and incest. But I already know that your belief on that because you've already stated that if your daughter were to be raped at 10 years old, you would make.

[Charlie Kirk]

Her give birth to the baby would be delivered and let me tell you why. And so. But first of all, let me try to find common ground. If I say we will make rape and incest abortions legal and get rid of all the other abortions, would you agree with that?

[Unnamed Student]

Can you repeat that? I'm so sorry.

[Charlie Kirk]

If I say that we will allow abortions to continue for rape and incest life of the mother, but all other abortions should be illegal, which is 99.4% of the time. Can we make those 99% of abortions illegal?

[Unnamed Student]

Yeah. See, I don't believe that abortion should be used as a form of birth control.

[Charlie Kirk]

So 99% of the time it is. That's all that we're debating in the country right now. So Charlie Kirk's position is a very fringe minority. People are talking about still exceptions. So we should get rid of 99% of abortions.

[Unnamed Student]

Yes, but at the same time.

[Charlie Kirk]

So you're actually not that pro choice?

[Unnamed Student]

Actually, I. But I am because I feel like there's no way to kind of divide the basis of like what's birth, what abortion is being used as birth control and what abortion?

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, it's totally easy actually. I mean, so you could tell through a DNA test if it's an incest baby. You could tell if it's rape because they have to file a police report and you could tell life of the mother based on an ob GYN analysis.

[Unnamed Student]

So okay, so if it's that easy, then why have we not done that?

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, because the American people don't support it. Because abortion is popularly supported as a form of birth control. That's why. So your position is actually a very rational one and I respect you for it. 99% of all abortions are done just because people want the baby gone. 99%. That's not Charlie Kirk's numbers. That's the Guttmacher Institute, which was funded by Planned Parenthood.

[Unnamed Student]

Okay, so do you like feel as though like people who have are victims of rape and incest? Do you think that they should be able.

[Charlie Kirk]

So just so we can agree on the 90%, then I'm going to try to win you over on the other percent. Okay, got it. So we're good on the 99. Get rid of those abortions.

[Unnamed Student]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, cool. Somebody in this audience was conceived in rape. Can you tell me who?

[Unnamed Student]

Nah.

[Charlie Kirk]

Why? I thought that they're less human.

[Unnamed Student]

I never. Those words never came out of my.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I know, but the insinuation of allowing rape for abortion is that they're not as human, therefore they should be murdered.

[Unnamed Student]

No, that's not the.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's more.

[Unnamed Student]

It's more about the mental toll that it would take on the mother.

[Charlie Kirk]

I totally acknowledge the mental toll, but shouldn't the human being conceived in rape still get human rights?

[Unnamed Student]

Yes, but it should be more up to the mother who has to carry the baby and who has to push it.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, hold on, let's. Let's play that out. So even though the mom has to push it, do you still have a right to terminate somebody? Can you take away human rights if your life's going to get difficult to somebody else? If somebody else is making your life difficult, can you take away their human rights?

[Unnamed Student]

No, but at the same time, that's like, that should, that's where like the question comes in that it should be up between the person, like the.

[Charlie Kirk]

But why, by what standard is that? Okay, for example, if a single mom has two kids and all of a sudden she loses her job and one of the kids is super annoying and has a learning disability, should she be able to murder that kid because it's an inconvenience to her? No, no, of course not.

[Unnamed Student]

After, like.

[Charlie Kirk]

But, but why is it that all of a sudden you get the. You get considered a human being after birth, but before birth you're not?

[Unnamed Student]

Because after birth you can, you know, you're kind of living on your own. You're not in the mother's body.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, you're not. Hold on. I have a 6 month old. My baby is not living on its own.

[Unnamed Student]

Not living on its own, but it can breathe on its own.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold. Second, over half a million babies every year are born in NICU which require. Which is a. Which is a prenatal assistance, breathing assistance, digestive assistance, and so are they not human because they can't viability. Have any viability. The point is that the standard doesn't apply. Right. Let me ask you one more hypothetical and it's a good question. Then I'll do a Christian one because you say you're Christian on that. I have two ultrasounds. One ultrasound is a Baby that was conceived in rape. The other ultrasound is a baby conceived in a loving relationship. Which one is which?

[Unnamed Student]

There's no like that. There's no difference.

[Charlie Kirk]

You're right.

[Unnamed Student]

There's no difference in the physical appearance of it. But the like, the complete difference is the mental toll that it would take on the mother and the person who has to carry the baby for nine months.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on, let's be clear. There's a mental toll when you have an abortion too. So it's not as if it's a get out of free.

[Unnamed Student]

No, I completely understand.

[Charlie Kirk]

So it's a tough, difficult, horrible situation. But shouldn't we be that the worst outcome after an evil is to just murder the being? Yeah. Why punish the baby for the crime of some guy that raped the mother? Why all of a sudden have two victims unnecessarily?

[Unnamed Student]

Well, okay, let's say the mother who is raped births the baby. What if she hates the baby? Like what if she just cannot care for the baby? What if the baby comes out and she hates the baby because she got raped?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, there are 2 million families right now waiting to adopt children. So put it up for adoption. There are 2 million loving families that can't find kids.

[Unnamed Student]

I just find that very interesting because the adoption process is actually very difficult in America.

[Charlie Kirk]

It is difficult. We can make it easier. But again the issue is that we there is a demand of families that want the babies.

[Unnamed Student]

Okay. And my last question that you like you had started to answer, but you didn't answer what you said you were going to was why if your daughter were to be by rape, why would you force her to have the baby?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, first of all, because we don't murder in our family. Okay, Would you murder in your family? No.

[Unnamed Student]

But at the same time I've done a little bit of research and I just wanted to let you know that the chance of a 10 year old surviving, giving birth and her baby, the.

[Charlie Kirk]

Full question was if it's below 10%.

[Unnamed Student]

So in reality, if you want your child, I said you have a bear with 10 years old, you're interrupt, you're not pro birth. You, I mean you're not pro life, you're pro birth.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, again to be very clear, I said if there was no issue with the mother's health and understand this is an extreme hyper personal example that someone used and I'm happy to own it. But let's just be clear, why is that example getting people so fired up? Because it's easy to say that you can murder a baby if it's small and that it's just a quote unquote, a clump of cells.

[Unnamed Student]

No, I think that one instance got people so fired up. Because the age of your daughter and just because.

[Charlie Kirk]

My answer was that if there were no medical complications so that you don't even remember the full answer people get, why does the age matter? Tell me why all of a sudden the age of the carrier matters?

[Unnamed Student]

Because that's. That improves the infant mortality rate. Like the older you, the older you are, the more likely you are to be able to carry a baby to term.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I know, but the younger you.

[Unnamed Student]

Are, the higher the infant and mother mortality.

[Charlie Kirk]

I said with no other medical issues though. But why? I just, I'm curious though, because with.

[Unnamed Student]

Age comes medical issues.

[Charlie Kirk]

With birth. I said with no other medical issues though, so you have to understand the preface there. I want to understand though. Maybe you can help me understand why the women of America are so enthusiastic about the right to be able to kill pre born babies. What, what is the help me understand?

[Unnamed Student]

It's more of just the ability to be able to do what you feel is necessary.

[Charlie Kirk]

Bingo. I think that's right. It's narcissism. I think you're totally right. It's. It is. It is weaponized medical narcissism. I'm in charge of the world. Screw.

[Unnamed Student]

No, I'm in charge of my body, not in charge of the world, of my body.

[Charlie Kirk]

Makes sense. So even though it's not your body and it's a different body in you, I'm the most important thing. And that makes sense because you just, you just connected the dots. We have the most narcissistic female generation in history and abortion is the culmination in that. Thank you for connecting the dots. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening everybody. Email us. As always, freedom at charliekirk. Com. Thanks so much for listening and God bless. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk. Com.