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A
My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro American student organization in the country, fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody.
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B
You gotta stop sending your kids to college.
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You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a Turning Point USA College chapter. Go start a Turning Point USA High School chapter. Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist.
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B
I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade.
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Most important decision I ever made in my life. And I encourage you to do the same. Here I am, Lord.
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B
Use me.
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A
Buckle up, everybody.
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C
Here we go.
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B
Noble Gold Investments is the official gold
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sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a
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B
company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold investments@noblegoldinvestments.com that is noblegoldinvestments.com
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D
all right.
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A
Welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show. It's Wednesday, May 13th. Lots of news going on. We're here at the Y Refi studio in Phoenix, Arizona. How we doing, Blake?
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B
We're doing lovely. Well, lovely, except we got news this morning that's not good.
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A
Yeah, well, Chloe Cole event. We're gonna get into that in just a second. Just to paint the broader landscape of news this morning, there was an explosive hearing involving a CIA whistleblower, a label the CIA itself is contesting, which I think is an interesting dynamic there about the reporting from the CIA and Fauci. Dr. Fauci's alleged involvement in shaping that reporting, whether it was a lab leak or whether it came out of the wet market and all of that whole story. Rand Paul is on the case, as well as Senator Hawley, Senator Ron Johnson. So some good guys on that. So hopefully we'll get some time to dive into that story. Also, President Trump has arrived in China for a much anticipated meeting with President xi.
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B
Basically, every CEO in America.
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A
Yeah, I think he's traveling. What was 16 CEOs, something like that.
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B
The big ones.
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A
Yeah. Tim Cook, Elon Musk. Yeah, we've got a representative. The companies represented is massive and worth trillions and trillions of dollars. Market cap. So a lot going on there. So we're watching talks on AI, on tariffs on fentanyl, on Iran. Lots going on. China's definitely motivated to get their Sluggish economy going, the energy squeeze on them has been bad. And they obviously want access to chips and AI, things like that. So that's what we're watching right now. This is one of three planned meetings, I believe. So don't necessarily expect sweeping accords to come out of this meeting in China. It's more likely to be the first volley in a series of meetings coming up. So we're watching that. We want to tell you about something that happened last night at the University of Washington. We have been doing a series at Turning Point USA of what we call pick up the mic events. These are prove me wrong style events that Charlie pioneered. And you know, instead of doing let's say 20 or 30 large ones as Charlie did, we're doing dozens and dozens and dozens all over the country with different speakers like Chloe Cole, who of course has been on the show a number of times. Chloe is a D transitioner. She's an activist in that space. Her whole life was turned upside down by bad advice from doctors, coercion from medical professionals and psychologists and she speaks out on them. So this was a pick up the mic event in University of Washington in Seattle. And it turned into a big to do. As you might expect in the Pacific Northwest. We saw protests against Turning Point USA flyers scattered throughout campus.
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B
Well, and we wanna highlight a very interesting thing about this. It's very symbolic of the modern left. So we have it thrown up here, but if you can't see it, it says May 13th protest against Turning Point USA. And it's two crossed flags. And the crossed flags are a Palestine flag and then a transgender flag. Two issues that if anything are in conflict with each other given some of Islam's cultural values. But they're actually totally united because as we like to point out, all left wing causes actually come together for the great union, universal left wing cause of destroying civilization.
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A
Yes, and specifically hating conservatives, hating white people, hating capitalism. So those are their big boogeymen. So of course the enemy of my enemy is my friend, at least until they get what they want. I suppose if they got what they want ever, then they would eventually attack each other.
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B
But then it says on here it continues. So they wanted first they were going to disrupt, bring flags, drums or anything to make noise, make the event impossible. The they say, why protest Turning Point usa. This is what their flyer says. Charlie Kirk was a right wing Nazi Trump supporter and public speaker who visited college campuses to spout hate speech which is not real and create viral clips. His organization, tpusa shares his fascist Views against minorities. And they say, and they basically demand to disrupt and shut down this Chloe Cole. Eventually they call her a transphobic grifter, which is. That's one way to describe a person whose life was nearly destroyed by this
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A
insane call, the trans mania. Chloe, I just want to make one note here. Chloe was adamant about the event continuing on. The chapter was adamant about the event continuing on. We wanted the event to continue on. Some of the people that we needed to be supportive of that event continuing on ultimately pulled out at the last minute. They didn't want liability, they didn't want potential violence, ultimately became unfeasible to keep the event continuing on. But the chapter and Chloe have immediately committed to rescheduling. There was a backdrop about this event that was somewhat interesting. So there was an actual murder outside of campus. It was off campus housing near and around University of Washington's campus up in Seattle. There was a stabbing murder of somebody that identifies as trans. It looks to be. We don't know the details. The suspect is still at large. The black individual, black male with a beard that apparently maybe even tried to break into this housing complex a couple days before. And anyways, this person was stabbed to death. And so they were using that as sort of a backdrop to attack the event, which they do a lot.
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D
They.
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B
There is an elevated death rate. There is an elevated death rate for transgender Americans. And they love to spin it as if this is the result of hate crimes, that they're hunted by right wingers. This is not true. They're sadly more likely to die by suicide, by murder, by drug overdose, because this lifestyle is associated with things that lead to an early death. This is one of the reasons this cult is so dangerous.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So harmful.
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A
Chloe has spoken out. She immediately released this video. We'll play it for you side 11.
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E
I was scheduled to speak tomorrow at an event at University of Washington hosted by TPUSA's local chapter. Antifa has assembled a local militia, in
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their own words, to shut down this event.
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B
Their actions, their explicit threats on my life have raised this event to national
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E
attention, a level of attention our security team and the local PD are frankly, unprepared for. Before Charlie Kirk's assassination, I think I would have been less careful. But the times have changed. And speaking on a University campus in 2026 can come with deadly consequences. This is not a win for Antifa
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A
because truth will always win.
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B
I will be back once conversations stop.
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E
That is when the violence begins.
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A
So we're proud of Chloe. She's strong. She's Courageous. Proud of that chapter. The chapter, by the way, has released a statement, and I think it was solid. As many in the Seattle area have heard, a transgender university Washington student was tragically murdered on Sunday night. The University of Washington chapter at Turning Point USA condemns this horrific act of violence in the strongest possible terms. Of course they do, but it does seem disconnected. No one should ever be subjected to such senseless brutality. Our thoughts and condolences are with the victim's family and friends. In light of this tragedy and by an overwhelming surge of violent threats directed at our chapter, threats that appear deliberately designed to falsely associate our peaceful event with the murder, we have made the difficult decision to postpone our upcoming event with Chloe Cole. Tposa dub is not leaving campus. We remain fully committed to promoting free speech, open dialogue, and intellectual diversity at the University of Washington. We look forward to rescheduling this important conversation at the earliest appropriate time. So well said from them. And I think that you're seeing something we talked about yesterday on the show with Miranda Devine, that there is a rise in left wing violence directed at conservatives, especially Turning Point USA campus conservatives, and this weird confluence of the antifa trans tifa and Palestine pro Palestine aligned groups coming together to really threaten conservatives. It has to stop. And hopefully the administration's getting serious about cracking down on some of these networks that spew such hatred. All right, so President Trump is in China and it's, I think, a landmark meeting because of the backdrop that we are experiencing this upon, and that is Iran. You've got the Taiwan issue, you've got, you've got AI and semiconductors. That's a huge issue. You've got fentanyl, which again, the Chinese keep saying we deny knowledge of this, but they are absolutely the country that is sending the precursors for fentanyl and they could stop it. So that's gonna expect that to be a huge point of contention. But President Trump lands in China, he's not greeted by Xi. So that is something. Xi, she was not there, but expect dinner and things like that to come. Yeah, there's the. But they did roll out the red carpet. There was, you know, people waving flags, much to do, a lot of pageantry. And so I find this whole backdrop with President Trump very fascinating because President Trump is a president that has defied the customs and norms and traditions of previous presidents. It's not a flaw of the system. It's not a bug. It is the system. Defying the experts is one of the things that President Trump does best. Sometimes. It's he flies by the seat of the pants, trusts his instinct. And depending on who you are, it's either genius or it's unnerving and unsettling. But even with President Trump with something this choreographed, this big, he's sort of still bound by the system, by these hundreds of years of precedent of diplomacy that has existed between countries. And so if he is going to improvise, it's kind of moment by moment, and it's within a larger structure where you have assigned seats, you have pageantry, you have people, you have to shake hands, you have this red carpet visit. So there's much, much to pay attention to here in this visit. But I want to play this B roll as well. Comparing and contrasting President Trump's arrival in China with Obama, which this was in September 2016. Obama arrived in Hangzhou, China, for the G20 summit.
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E
And.
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A
And you can really see the difference of the President Trump greeting versus the Obama greeting, where there really wasn't much to do. Now, maybe President Xi is just playing the individual personalities of the leaders. Right. Obama didn't need such pageantry, perhaps, is what Xi was expecting. But also, I think it underscores the larger stakes of the game now. Right. Because I think it's safe to say, Blake, that never before in American Chinese sort of diplomatic history have the stakes been so high, has China been viewed as such a rival and on a somewhat equal footing. They're not equal, but it's closer to equal with the U.S. never before has there been such a challenge to our superpower leadership of the world. But it also shows that China really wants to get something out of this as well. Your thoughts, Blake?
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B
Yeah, I think I'll be honest. If they're putting on a bigger show, I think they know that that appeals to the president. We saw playing the person very similar to what we saw in the Middle east when. Remember when he did that first trip and it was to all the Middle Eastern countries, and it was just escalating more and more respect. Have a. Have, you know, bring him a giant pile of emeralds on a camel or something.
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A
Yeah.
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B
But I think it's. I think the most interesting thing is how many different CEOs went and how that dynamic is going to work out.
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A
Because you're watching in that.
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B
Well, so many different things go into that. First, it is a way for President Trump to signal, look, all of the biggest companies in the world, the most profitable ones are still in the US we have this huge amount of power, but there's also this dimension. A lot of those CEOs want to tag along. We know, we know the President gets influenced by the people that he's talking to that he hangs around with. And these guys, a lot of them do want a pretty. They want more normalization with China. Jensen Wang of Nvidia is there. He wants to be able to send all his chips to China.
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A
He flew on Air Force One with President Trump. So Jensen and, and Elon both were on.
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B
I'll be honest, I think we, I'm, I'll be honest, I'm a little bit worried about it, just in the sense that we know how did China manage to rocket sew up and hoover up all of our manufacturing in the first place? They told them in the 90s and early 2000s, if we send our factories to China, if we send our business to China, if we just normalize all of our economic stuff with them, China will liberalize. China will become more like us. We really won't need to worry about communist China because all the communism and authoritarianism will go away. And I'm worried we're seeing a replay of that on the chips question where there are people who have a very strong reason to believe this because you can make a ton of money selling chips to China who are saying, oh well, actually if we give China our chips, we're already ahead. They won't catch up that quickly. Like we'll be able to get the money and we'll still have the advantage over them on this key technology. And maybe they're right, they're smarter than I am, but it sounds like something I've seen before.
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A
So since we're clear about the chip strategy currently in place, and I'm sure this is going to be a topic of discussion with Xi, the current chip strategy is to give them a generation older, slightly degraded. So imagine it would be a generation, it's an older generation chip, but still powerful.
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B
Still better than what they have.
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A
Still better than what they have. And the idea is that you degrade it. Some so say instead of 100% capacity of a last gen chip, you degrade it 40%. That's the idea. The strategy is that you make them addicted to our chips so that they don't continue pushing so much resource into Huawei, for example, advancing their own chip technology. So that's the, that's the concept in practice. I don't know that it functionally matters that much. China has shown great proclivities and abilities in the AI space already, even if they are using old chips. But nevertheless, we do maintain an advantage There we've all been told to eat fruits and vegetables forever, but nobody really explained why. What if I told you that plants have their own nutrition and that it might be better for you than a lot of processed stuff we've added? If nutrition feels overwhelming, it helps to take a step back and zoom out. When you eat whole foods, you're getting what's called phytonutrients, natural compounds your body uses to adjust, repair and to respond every single day. Stresses balance of nature takes real produce and runs it through a tailored vacuum cold process that stabilizes that phytonutrition. Their whole health system combines fruits and vegetables and fibers and spice, giving you 47 whole food ingredients. And their Phytonutrition is one simple routine. Their new freeze dried snacks go through a similar process. So your snacks can be whole food based instead of just empty calories. Whole food Phytonutrition plus balance of nature helps you fight the good fight. Save over 30% when you subscribe@ balanceofnature.com Join hundreds of thousands of customers in one simple routine that's changing the world. You can get an additional 10% off your order just by using the discount code Charlie when you purchase@balanceofnature.com that's discount code Charlie for 10% off your order. All right, Brandon Gill, you are a representative from Texas, I believe, 26, and you're also on the House Oversight Committee. And you have a big new task force out, sir, to confront Medicaid fraud. We had Luke Rosiak on the show from the Daily Wire exposing that bombshell reporting. It seems like you guys are taking the ball and running. Tell us about it, sir.
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C
Well, this is a new task force that Chairman Comer created that I'm going to chair called the Task Force on Defending Constitutional Rights and Exposing Institutional Abuse. And we've got a broad mandate to look at all kinds of areas where the American people's rights are being violated, whether that is NGOs that are funneling tax dollars to left wing, the left wing ecosystem or entities that are defrauding Medicaid or or businesses that are still utilizing DEI as part of discriminatory hiring practices or universities doing the same. But to begin this task force, we're launching officially an investigation into this Ohio Medicaid fraud scandal. And the reporting from the Daily Wire has been fantastic on this. This is a scandal that we believe to be at least about a billion dollars right now, where you've got doctors who are signing off on Medicaid waiver forms that are allowing people to engage in home health is what it's called. And that includes explicitly companionship and conversation. So these are people who. You don't have to be a doctor to do this. You don't have to prove that the services are being provided. There's no cap on the spend for this program. And you've got a whole variety of Shell LLCs that have been created, created over the past several years that are acting as intermediaries to facilitate these what we believe many to be fraudulent payments. So that's going to be our first order of business. We announced last night that we sent out letters asking for information, communications and documents from several of these LLCs, as well as the Ohio Medicaid program and the Bureau of Program Integrity, because at the end of the day, we just want to know where our tax dollars are going. Is it going to fraudulent entities? Is it actually benefiting the American people? And in this case, it looks like the answer is no. So we're going to figure out what's going on and put an end to it.
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B
Congressman, it strikes me like what you really want to bring out here, there's the fraud element, but it's the way it fits into what I think a lot of people see as the bigger picture of America. An idiom, Charlie. Like, it's like America's a giant pile of money. The entire world has realized it can just take. Or it's like a giant pile of molasses and there's all these flies on it because you have fraudulent businesses, whether it's in Medicaid or daycares or whatever. But then that then ties into, well, you have fraud in the immigration system, you have fraud in H1BS and hiring, you have fraud in. It's like it's a giant apparatus where we have universal basic income, if you will, as long as you're not an ordinary American who was born here and speaks English. English. We have universal basic English. If you're from a clannish group that's able to not talk to police, that operates outside the system and you have omerta and you just take whatever you can and the Democrats help you, it's like it's reparations combined with Third World aid. It's like it's. We have. USAID is still continuing, but it's for people in this country. And I guess what I would hope is you guys don't just find the fraud, but you really expose how this system has been created and sustains itself.
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C
That's exactly right. And to be clear, the goal is not simply to expose fraud. The goal is to put an end to it. You know, we saw this fraud in Minnesota. We're going after it in Ohio. I think that there are multiple other states that we ought to be looking at as well, and we will. But the goal is to ultimately end it. And with this task force, what I'd like to do is, where applicable, where the facts matter merit doing so. I think we want to issue criminal referrals to the doj, and we're also going to put out policy recommendations for the broader Republican conference to take up so that we can pass legislation that will make sure this doesn't happen again. And that's why we're going deep here. We're going to investigate this. Remember, the Oversight Committee in this task force as well has investigatory power, and that's an authority that Congress has through these committees that we ought to be using. And we're going to. So we have the power to bring people in, to put them under oath, to make them testify before the committee. We're going to have hearings. We have the power to subpoena documents and information, which we've already done here. We have more subpoenas that are going out or requests for information that are going out in the next couple days. And we're going to use every power at our disposal to go after this fraud because ultimately, the American people are so sick of this stuff. You know, we've seen it for a long time. We knew things were bad. Doge, I think, uncovered far more than anybody was aware of or had any idea was happening. You know, the reason that we know about this Medicaid fraud, by the way, is because Doge published Medicaid receipts about a year ago, and it allowed reporters and other people to go through this data. So now we're taking that and we're acting on it.
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A
Congressman, are you guys going to be using AI tools to sort of like, you know, detect patterns that are suspicious? Are you going to be using technology? I really believe in the power of AI when it comes to fraud detection. It's one of the best uses of it, in my opinion. Are you guys exploring that already?
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C
That's something that we're going to take a look at. I think anything, if you look at the amount of data here, and I think that's one of the things that seems daunting at first, is that there's an enormous amount of document to go through, and I think AI could certainly be a part of helping streamline that process. And there may be processes that we can put in place going forward that would help catch this on the front end as opposed to doing investigations on the back end.
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A
Right. And I think you've got. Yeah, go ahead.
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C
I was going to say you've got multiple problems here with incentive misalignment states that are doling out federal money that they aren't really on the hook for and they're incentivized to give out essentially as much money as they possibly can. And that's a problem as well.
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A
Yeah. And why I wanted to draw attention to this for our audience, Congressman, is I want to read this quote from Chairman Comer because I think it's what sets this task force apart. I think you're exactly the right person to be running it. I have a lot of hope for this task force because of your leadership. But this is his quote. It says under his leadership, I'm reading from Fox News, we will continue to expose radical ideologies being pushed on Americans and fight to safeguard our freedom that we've enjoyed as a Nation for 250 years. And it says Gill's task force will have a broad purview, including investigating institutions that uphold diversity, equity and inclusion and individuals who misuse immigration and social welfare programs and efforts by foreign actors and dark money groups to censor American speech. The that quote from Comer where he says expose the ideologies being pushed on Americans is so critical because yes, there's structural issues, there's incentive issues, but underlying all of this is this dogged drive to force down DEI to this reparations for Brown people that are foreigners that have no business being in this country. It's like USAID for people living in the country or something. This reparations, this UBI push the clear waivers, these waiver systems that essentially don't allow proper oversight and accountability of these systems. You're going after root causes here, which is what I believe makes this a very, very powerful potential of this task force. So maybe explain the core element there.
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C
Well, you know, it's not just the Medicaid fraud that we're going to be going after. I'll give you another example of something that we're working on now and we'll have more information as we continue to do our work on it. But we're going to be going after DEI in civil society as well. Whether it is colleges and universities that refuse to admit somebody because they were born with white skin or businesses who refuse to hire somebody because they're a white male or for any other racial characteristic by the way. And these are. This is activity that is clearly illegal right now, but I think it's still happening. You know, these are policies that have been so ingrained into universities and into businesses that it's not something that's easy to turn off overnight. And the best way to ensure that the law is being followed, the law that the President was elected to put forth, is to expose this, to investigate businesses or colleges or other entities that are engaging in these types of discriminatory practices, put them under oath, do an investigation, get documents, get communications from them, and then we can make criminal referrals where necessary. But the root cause of that is a rotten, evil, discriminatory ideology. That's done, of course, as we all know, under the guise of diversity and inclusion. And what it's tended to mean is that there's a large portion of people in the United States, mainly white people or people who have races that the left doesn't feel favor, who are kind of passed over for promotions, for hiring, for college admissions. And that's wrong. And that's what we're going to end. But that is the root cause, the rotten ideology that we're going to expose, I think, very clearly.
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A
Yeah. Well, we want to celebrate it and have your back 100%. Congressman Gill, you are doing great work. I said it last time. I'm going to say it again. I think you're a rising star, and the gop. I want to see your star continue to rise because you get it. You understand what we're up against. You know, to use a cliche, you understand what time it is.
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B
We love to say Congress is getting better, one new person at a time. And when we say that, we're thinking of you.
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A
Yeah, exactly. And so keep up the good work, and we're going to follow your work on this task force very closely. And as we can amplify the stories that come out, please let us do so. Congressman Brandon, God bless you, man.
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C
Thank you.
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A
All right. We wanted to touch on a hearing that's happening on Capitol Hill right now led by Chairman Rand Paul, and it is about the origins of COVID Yeah, we haven't let that one go yet. Dr. Fauci's name's back in the news. There was a CIA whistleblower. That was. His name's James Erdman III. So he was part of the CIA. Now, there's some back and forth between the CIA saying you didn't go through the proper channels. This guy's not a real whistleblower. And we'll get into that in Just a second. But the bottom line here is that the allegations from this whistleblower are that Dr. Anthony Fauci himself put his thumb on the scales to make sure that the assessment from the intel community was not clear and directive about it being a lab leak. He instead made sure it was. The report said it was neutral, that we couldn't know, even though the vast majority of CIA analysts did believe it was a lab leak to according, according to this gentleman. So let's just play a couple of clips here. SOT3 you believe, and the information you're aware of is that CIA scientists from
- [28:36]
B
an early time after the pandemic began,
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A
2020, 2021,
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E
were concluding that the lab leak was the most likely hypothesis. Yes, Senator, very early, as early as 2020, there were agencies within the IC circulating papers that said that all the conditions were present for a lab leak.
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A
He continues specifically mentioning Dr. Fauci's role. SOT 6.
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E
Dr. Fauci's role in the COVID up was intentional. Dr. Fauci influenced the analytical process and findings by leveraging his position to ensure the IC consulted with a conflicted list of curated subject matter experts, public health officials and scientists. This included some of the authors of the paper the Proximal origin of SARS CoV 2 and other public health experts who have been in his orbit for the last 20 plus years.
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A
So Dr. Fauci's name is getting dropped directly in this hearing. And he continued on. I mean, this was a real bombshell of a hearing. Sat 7.
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E
There were two instances on 3, February 2020 and 4 June 2021. Anthony Fauci had contact with the interagency.
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D
He provided a curated list of subject
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E
matter experts which coincidentally wrote the Proximal origin of SARS CoV2. So it's, it's not like he came in and said, you have to do X, Y and Z. He provided recommendations. It's when you look at, when you
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D
look at what has already been publicly released about Dr. Fauci and then what
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E
you're seeing under the curtain at the ic, where you realize, okay, there is a narrative that was being generated, he had tried to sort of keep his hands clear of, I didn't have anything to do with the proximal origin of SARS CoV2, but in the meantime, he's pushing those authors and individuals that have been in his orbit into the IC as experts.
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A
So he's directly naming Dr. Anthony Fauci and explaining the way he would do it where he wouldn't give direction. That was Necessarily you have to do X, Y and Z. But he was absolutely weighing in providing recommendations of which scientists he preferred to be involved in the origin reports of SARS COV 2 and that then there is this whole issue of the CIA. Right. So the CIA issued a statement, this statement about this whistleblower. This statement happened during the committee hearing. Ron Johnson, who we've had on the show a number of times, ends up reacting to it and just went off. And you could see that he was actually had a visceral response anger to this statement made by the CIA.
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C
Stop5 just received this from Liz Lyon, the CIA Director of Public Affairs. Media acted in bad faith by subpoenaing an agency officer for testimony today without notifying CIA despite having already obtained closed door testimony from the individual previously. The witness testifying today is not appearing as a whistleblower in pursuant of the truth, but instead in response to the subpoena issued by Chairman Paul. This proceeding amounts to nothing more than a dishonest political theater masquerading as a congressional hearing. As the CIA has already assessed. COVID 19 most likely originated from the lab leak. And efforts to undermine that conclusion are disingenuous. I am calling on CIA Director Radcliffe and this person to apologize to Chairman Paul and this committee. This is not political theater. I have years and years and years of built up frustration of agencies like the CIA, Department of Justice, the FBI, HHS snubbing our oversight, giving us the big middle finger.
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A
Yeah, Ron Johnson does have years of built up frustration. And this is something we've seen especially from the IC and snubbing oversight, constitutional oversight.
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B
It's so important to get to the bottom of this because Covid is becoming. Everything about that period is becoming the great attempt to memory hole every single thing about it. They try to memory hole Florida Palooza.
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D
They.
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B
We see people going around saying, oh, when did we ever, when did we ever start doing all this insane racial propaganda? And they do it with COVID where they'll say, oh, we didn't enforce massive lockdowns on anyone. We've seen this. We've seen people try to say that, you know, months or years of lockdowns was. It was a made up thing. It was not made up. And they definitely, definitely want to suppress everything that was going on in the winter and spring of 2020.
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A
Well, even after fall of 2019. Yes, but.
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B
Yes, well, they want to obscure everything that would reveal that they colluded to push a narrative about COVID that they knew they couldn't back up, but that they knew would keep them out of trouble. And then they made up lockdowns when they did not have actual scientific basis for this.
- [33:33]
A
Well, and you're talking about. Why would they be worried about getting into trouble? It's because we funded so much of this research.
- [33:38]
B
We funded the research.
- [33:39]
A
This has been a highly controversial form of research. This gain of function research. Research for 20 years, maybe longer. Rand Paul talks about that in this hearing. And they did not want their funding to be linked to a global pandemic. And, yeah, the CIA has concluded now that the most plausible hypothesis is that it was a lab leak from Wuhan. But they didn't at the beginning. And why didn't they at the beginning?
- [34:04]
B
Not only did they not say that, they actively colluded with large tech companies to censor people who made that argument.
- [34:12]
A
That's right.
- [34:12]
B
They tried to impose mass censorship on a narrative that they then later turned around and said was the one they believed in.
- [34:18]
A
And it was one of the most
- [34:20]
B
despicable things any institution has done.
- [34:23]
A
And I mean, candidly, if this does not end in some sort of accountability for Dr. Anthony Fauci, then I don't think that the American people are going to get justice. But I hope that this is the beginning of it. And listen, I have a lot of disagreements with senator Rand Paul, but when it comes to Anthony Fauci, this man is on fire. And he is like a dog with a bone. And we cheer him on. We do need to get accountability. We need all the people that were involved in this, all the players, to admit the truth, to come clean, stop playing defense, stop sending nasty grams to senator Ron Johnson and senator Rand Paul, who have been leading and out front on this. We support their efforts 100%. We want justice. We want truth. We want accountability.
- [35:04]
B
Dr. Fauci is 85 years old. He deserves to die in disgrace under indictment.
- [35:09]
A
Amen.
- [35:11]
B
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A
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A
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- [37:23]
D
So.
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B
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A
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B
StrongCell.com Charlie check it out.
- [37:43]
A
Right now we are honored to have in studio Dr. Peter McCullough who has been a longtime friend of the show. But it's been a while, so to have you in studio is fantastic. I want to, you know, I want to do my shameless plug for you here. He's got his new New York Times bestseller out here called Mythology, Ideology and Reality. You can check it out right here and then the courage to face COVID 19 right here as well. So he's got two books that I want you guys to check out. You probably got more than that, actually. But you are a really accomplished doctor. I mean, I remember when we first had you on, we read your bio and it was like a mile long. You're one of the most published doctors around. And, you know, you were so instrumental, I think, in changing the way the country thought about COVID the way it thought about Dr. Fauci, the way it thought about our response to it, medical freedom. And so it's really great to have you here. And, you know, I want to start where we kind of ended last hour. I know you were in the green room watching some of our reporting on it and I our coverage of it, but Dr. Anthony Fauci is a guy. I mean, Blake ended the hour saying that he's 85 years old. He deserves to die in disgrace. In indictment, he did receive a preemptive pardon from the Biden administration.
- [39:06]
B
Find a way around it.
- [39:07]
A
We'll find a way around it. When you see those clips and you see that there was a concerted effort within the intel communities to obscure, obfuscate the origin of COVID 19, that it was a lab, it wasn't a lab leak, it was neutral or inconclusive. When it was so clearly Wuhan, the lab at Wuhan, what do you make of it? How do you react to this hearing that you just witnessed?
- [39:31]
E
You know, it's another piece to the puzzle. It appears as if Fauci was collaborating with Dr. Ralph Baric at the UNC Chapel Hill, had already published on his work in the Chinese lab. Ralph Barrack suspended at UNC today, He's actually abruptly resigned. Fauci was.
- [39:50]
A
That's news.
- [39:50]
B
Yeah.
- [39:51]
E
And Fauci was collaborating clearly with now debarred Peter dasak at the EcoHealth Alliance. Dasak was shuttling the plans from Barrick over to Xingling Lee and Wuhan.
- [40:01]
A
Well, explain that too, by the way, because we used to do. Baric used to do that in the United States at unc, that this, this gain of function research was done domestically then I believe during the Obama years. Right. There was a moratorium put on that type of research. Because this has widely been and for a long time been viewed as controversial science because there has been such a large number of lab leaks and accidents throughout the years. People think this was like a one off. No, there's hundreds and hundreds of documented cases of lab leaks throughout the years. Even at. I forget the. This was like. Wuhan is like a level two and the highest security is level four, right, right.
- [40:41]
E
Well, Wuhan, during the early creation of SARS CoV2, it was level three. And then the Chinese reached out to Biomeru at the time to make a level four annex. Do you know who the CEO of. Of biomeru when they built the annex in Wuhan?
- [41:00]
A
No.
- [41:01]
E
It was Stephane Baynzel, who's the current CEO of Moderna.
- [41:05]
A
Oh, wow.
- [41:06]
E
You can't make this up. So I tell you, there was a collaboration. There was a US Chinese collaboration to make the virus, to have it have pandemic potential. And at the same time, in barracks papers, in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences and Nature Medicine, These papers in 2015, 2016, indicate that the plan is to create a vaccine. In fact, they tried to create a vaccine in those papers. And, you know, it's all well documented.
- [41:29]
A
So is that kind of the broader motive? Because to the layman you're going, why on earth would you create a virus that could cause a mass pandemic, a global pandemic, in the first place? Why even do that? Is the larger narrative here just money? They wanted to create the cure to the disease so that they could make money. Maybe it was not. Maybe it wasn't. I don't know, some evil, vile, diabolical conspiracy. It was an actual accident. They didn't mean for it to get out. But why do the research in the first place? What's their explanation? And what do you believe is the truth?
- [42:06]
E
You know, that's my interpretation. I think it accidentally got out of the lab. But I can tell you if you just look at government websites. DARPA, the Military Research Unit. 2012, they announced a program, it's called the Adept P3 program. On their website, it says, we will end pandemics in 60 days using messenger RNA vaccines. That's in 2012.
- [42:29]
A
Hmm. So it's financial incentive, though, basically. And we were talking in the break, Doctor, about this hantavirus outbreak that we've seen on this cruise ship and how this seems to be, you know, a lot of people, every time a new story comes out about some virus, everybody gets PTSD of COVID and we instantly all go, oh, no, they're doing it again. So, you know the hantavirus, you were telling me there's even. There's already Moderna, I believe you said was Moderna, is already working on a vaccine for that. So let's just separate fact from fiction. What are you seeing with this hantavirus outbreak on this cruise ship? What do we need to pay attention to? Is there cause for concern?
- [43:11]
E
Hantavirus is a virus that is serious. It causes a pulmonary and renal syndrome that can be fatal. Most of the fatalities, this 40% mortality rate, comes from rural villages down in Argentina. I mean, there's a lot of deaths that occur. People never even get to the hospital. So I think with modern hospital care, in fact, in the current outbreak, the hospital is saving patients. The important point is it's spread from mice or rats through the urine and feces into the dust in the air, and people breathe it into the lungs. No one's ever coughed out or sneezed out hantavirus from a human to human. That's never happened. And there was a. I think a paper that was deceptive. It was published in 2020 with a fantastic title at New England Journal of Medicine. First author is Martinez. It said, super spreaders of hantavirus. Super spreaders. As if humans could spread it. And it was a very poorly done study. Down in Epoyan in Argentina, a place where the rodents are loaded with the virus, and they thought people went to a birthday party, that they spreaded it to one, they spread it to one another. But in fact, the houses were probably loaded with these rodents because they're all over the village. It's a misinterpretation. The Infectious Disease Society of America, two years later, publishes a paper by Toledo that clarifies it and says, no, this is not spread human to human. Well, what's going on with this outbreak? The WHO has immediately assumed there's no rodents on the boat. Let me tell you, this is an older ship. Rodents get on the boat, they're immediately assuming that it's being spread person to person. And so this is a serious thing. The who gets involved. In my view, on May 2, when they knew what was going on, they were in Cape Verde. They should have evacuated the ship and then decommissioned the ship for sterilization. What did they do? They locked down the ship. People could not get out of their quarters.
- [44:55]
A
This is the Princess Cruise Line again.
- [44:57]
E
So listen, they locked it down. Probably the virus was in the ventilatory system. People weren't exchanging saliva on the ship. Come on. I don't buy that for a second. And then people got sick. In fact, when we get to the 10th and they finally get off up in the Canary Islands, a French woman, she actually is in ICU right now fighting for life in France. That one's on the who. She should have never been on that ship.
- [45:20]
A
So your. Your presumption here, your theory is that there are rodents on the ship. It's an Old ship, they have the hantavirus. Hantavirus that people are breathing it in through the ventilation system on the boat. The safest thing would have been to get them off the boat, not lock them in. Basically a death trap.
- [45:38]
E
Correct. And I think now this assumption for that each person is super contagious. They have people locked down in Nebraska in a biosecurity center in the Netherlands. They've told some healthcare workers because they didn't wear hazmat suits and they came in peripheral contact with someone that they have to go six weeks of quarantine themselves. It's complete hysteria.
- [46:01]
A
Wow. Well, it feels like anything they can do to make people concerned and worried about, it's just, you know, I'm grateful for your measured tone here, sir. So play some of this B roll from this ship, this hantavirus cruise ship, because you're observing things that I don't think the normal person would observe. When you're looking at this, you're seeing. Yeah, see, here you go, here's the ship. And basically you see all these guys in hazmat suits walking around because again, they're sort of. The assumption is that this is human to human contact or something. What are you observing when you see these images, doctor?
- [46:45]
E
Well, first off, respiratory viruses, which this is not, respiratory viruses don't transmit in the open ocean air. You can't get a virus in a sea breeze. So the safest place for the people to be the entire time would have been on the ship deck. And Instead, when the WHO got involved in Cape Verde on May 2, they locked people underneath. And you're going to see some images now where the people are in their cabins with no hazmat suits, and they look desperate. They go outside, they put on these personal protective gowns and caps and gloves and everything. Then they hose them down outside. Now, watch carefully. Some of the other people around them have no masks or head and hazmat suits, including the driver. So to me, this looks like who theater.
- [47:31]
A
Yeah. And you mentioned that the WHO doesn't even treat anybody right. They don't treat people. It's all the. This is why President Trump is vindicated now for pulling us out. So in this whole story, I was reminded of the Gene Hackman story. All right, so Gene Hackman and his wife, you guys will remember, were found dead in their New Mexico house. Really sad story. Gene Hackman, very celebrated accomplished actor, did some great iconic roles. It was a sad way to go out. I mean, he was in his 90s, I believe, and they found him either dead of a heart attack or dehydrated. His wife, though, was confirmed to have died from haunting.
- [48:10]
B
What happened is she died and then he had dementia, and so he was dependent on her and he couldn't care for himself.
- [48:16]
A
Correct. So it was a terrible, terrible way to go, but she died of hantavirus. So this is very interesting because you talked about this Argentina story where it's carried by mice and rodents. What can you tell us about this Gene Hackman story that would be illuminating for this current cruise ship story?
- [48:36]
E
Well, it takes about a week to ascertain where the rodents are to sample the droppings in the urine. And they did find rodents on his property, his outbuildings. They even found some of this actually in his vehicles.
- [48:48]
A
Wow.
- [48:48]
E
She dies of it. This really brutal pulmonary renal syndrome. And the interpretation is he's. He's has such severe dementia, he ultimately dies of dehydration. Heart attack. By the way, one of the dogs died as well. Not of hantavirus, but. But probably of dehydration. But. But it takes at least a week of investigation. Do you know what the WHO did with the ship? The MV Hondius in Cape Verde. After they got the people off, they kind of looked around and they said, well, we don't see any rats here. They didn't do any inspections, no samples. They let the crew, 30 crew and some healthcare workers get back on the ship and then sail for Rotterdam without any biosecurity precautions. So why are Americans locked down in Omaha, Nebraska, in a contagion center? And why are the crew sailing off to Rotterdam on the ship? This is astounding.
- [49:43]
A
Yeah. So you're saying that there could be some of these crew members that end up getting exposed to the rat droppings or whatever in the ventilation system. There could be more crew members that come down with hantavirus.
- [49:54]
E
It's possible. I'm hoping that they are wise enough to know what's going on, at least. Clorox down. You know, the surfaces. They do say that they're wearing masks now. And by the way, masks would play a role because these are enlarged dust particles. But the WHO has said when they get to Rotterdam, these guys are in six to eight weeks of quarantine. Quarantine? Yeah.
- [50:15]
A
But you couldn't.
- [50:16]
D
You.
- [50:16]
A
Since it is. It's not respiratory. You were saying? It's. You could. You should be able to do a blood test and see if they're carrying the virus.
- [50:22]
E
Right. It's a blood PCR test now. It tends to have false positives. We already had two People go to Emory, remember, oh, she's blood test positive, but then quickly was negative and she's fine. So what we need is we use the blood PCR test, and then there are also serologies or early antibody measurements. And of course, the clinical syndrome should be recognized by the doctors. But this report that you see in the media of somebody test positive is not helpful.
- [50:49]
A
Yeah, so this feels like this huge panic over something that's linked to rat droppings. And they keep talking about human to human contact, or it's tough to pass human to human, but it could happen. Your perspective is that this has never even been documented as being a thing that happens. So we shouldn't be causing all this hysteria over something that's linked to rat dropping.
- [51:11]
E
We shouldn't make a theoretical assumption, which is entirely what the WHO has done and the CDC has done. The theoretical assumption is somehow it's jumped to human to human transmission, and there's not even an explanation of how this is happening. The people are not coughing and sneezing. How, how is this being transmitted human to human? It's just this assumption, and then to make matters worse, that it's wildly contagious outside hazmat suits, biosecurity centers, people away from their families and for very long periods of time. And by the way, the latency phase on this is probably grossly overestimated. It's been said, oh, you can have the virus for eight weeks before it's expressed. I think that's overestimated because in these studies, largely from South America and the desert Southwest, we never know when the exposure to the rodent is. If someone's in the house and the rodents are still back behind the walls, you're continually exposed. What we saw is the ship takes off on April 1st. Everybody's well, the first man gets sick by April 6th, and he's dead by April 11th.
- [52:13]
A
But it could be possible that he brought the hantavirus with him. It could be.
- [52:17]
E
It's possible. There's been speculation that they came in a garbage dump and they tracked it on their, their feet. Let me tell you, the virus doesn't stay alive outside the rodents very long, only about two to three days. So the rodents have to be there continually excreting in order for you to get. So that's the reason why rodent control is key. I think this whole thing is probably going to be back to rodent spread, not human to human. I don't think people are wildly contagious. And you can see experts going out there saying, we see this Happening and an air of precaution. But no one is able to identify clear human, human spread.
- [52:54]
A
All right, we've only got a minute and 30 left. I want to ask you about Marty Makary, who was the head of the fda and he has resigned now. Huge, huge following within the Maha movement. So I'm watching the Maha movement and you know, are they happy? Are they unhappy? Because I think it's an important part of our coalition for 2026, 2028. Just really quickly, what's your read on what happened there and should we be concerned if you're a Maha fan?
- [53:23]
E
Well, like me, MacRae was a frequent commentator on the news. On Fox, for instance. We went on primetime many times during the pandemic. Now, he focused on lockdowns and masks, and I was focused on the heavy duty things like early treatment and vaccines. He was the first surgeon to ever be appointed to that position. He didn't have any leadership experience and didn't have any drug development experience. I think honestly, he just wasn't a good fit. Trump had very good things to say about him, but I think we need to do better. We need somebody who has bona fide drug development and drug safety experience.
- [53:56]
A
Yeah. And he's come on this show, he's been great. Charlie and he were friends and, you know, we wish him well. It could just be one of those things where it wasn't the right fit. He's a great guy, been very courageous during COVID So anybody that's courageous during COVID has my massive respect, like you, sir. So hopefully he goes on to even greater and better things. Check out the new book, the New York Times bestseller Vaccines by Dr. Peter McCullough. Mythology, ideology and reality. Thank you for coming on set with us. Appreciate it. God bless you. Gentlemen. Let's get real for a second. Are you frustrated with today's woke dating scene? The apps, the games, the endless swiping. It's a waste of time finding a woman who shares your values, faith, family, patriotism. If it feels nearly impossible, it doesn't have to. Selective Search, America's leading matchmaking firm, is changing the game. They connect. Strong, successful men like you, men who love God, love America, want a family with women who share your values. These are intelligent, faith driven women who put family first and still believe in traditional values. Imagine that if you're a single conservative man in his late 30s to early 50s in Southern California. Listen up. Selective Search has an exclusive network of women ready for the real thing. Here's the best part. Their candidate program is 100% free and confidential. Some of our closest friends the show have used selective search and let me tell you, they're meeting great, great women, high quality women. This is your chance. This isn't an app. It's your answer. The perfect conservative woman is out there waiting for you. Visit selectivesearch.com california today. Let the professionals introduce you to women already looking for someone like you in Southern California. Don't wait for the perfect match. Take action now. Go to selectivesearch.com California and start building the future you deserve. All right, I am very excited about this. I want to make sure I get your whole title correct here. Dr. Oz, Dr. Mehmet Oz, formerly known as the Wizard. No, I'm just kidding. He's the administrator for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. Huge, huge job. And you have taken front and center and so much of what the administration is doing with this fraud task force. When you entered this job, did you know that this was going to be such a huge part of what you did?
- [56:24]
D
You know, we made OKRs, objectives and key results. Folks who work in the technology space, they'll recognize that's a tactic that's used with large organizations to sort of make sure everyone knows where you're headed. Crushing fraud, waste and abuse is one of them. And I'll tell you why. I was approached by so many vendors after the President nominated me who wanted to sell us services to reduce fraud, waste and abuse. So I figured there's a lot of market here. All these people think they're going to make a fortune shutting down fraud. By the way, they take a part of the action, which is why they make so much money. I thought if there's 100 vendors approaching me to sell me services, there's something going on I got to pay attention to. So it actually clued me into the magnitude of the problem. What I didn't realize was that fraud, and listen carefully, fraud is not a flaw for many states. It's a feature. It's an opportunity. Let me walk you through an example because once you understand that, you realize that we're not actually a team going after this. This is why what the President did was so important when he announced a task force, a White House anti fraud task force that the Vice President is leading that's going to be able to get an all of government approach. Because if you don't get the entire federal government on board, you know, the office, Inspector General, the FBI, Department of Justice, U.S. at Medicare, we have, we have the numbers, they have the law enforcement shops we need, we need treasury because Scott, business guys have forensic accounting. If we don't do that together, our counterparty, which are the states, they dominate the process. And if they don't want to play with us because for them there's an advantage to some of this fraud, it's a problem. So let me just tell you the story real quick. Just in one example. New York state, big state, you know, fifth Avenue, shopping, sales. Right, Mamdani? Right. The number one job in the whole state of New York, the number one job is being a personal care service helper, which means you're carrying the groceries upstairs, you're helping with shopping. You're often the son of the person you're helping.
- [58:16]
B
So you have something like one in six jobs in New York City, I think.
- [58:20]
D
Well, it might be that in New York City it's about half a million jobs in the state. It's the fastest growing part of the job sector. But here's why it matters to the governor. It's a jobs program. So when these people are being hired, they come off the unemployment rolls. You're now paying them to do something your family would do for you. Normally they're taking that money as, you know, disposable income. They're paying taxes on that. And here's the part that a lot of folks don't realize might happen. And it's just starting now we're trying to understand it a bit more. Unions are getting involved and unionizing these people. We're seeing similar things happen in California, where I was just coming from. So you actually have a massive infrastructure that begins to resemble political patronage. And so when you have that kind of advantage. Exactly what it is, exactly what it is. You're now having the federal government funding a jobs program that states and unions that support one political party in general are taking their public unions, not, I'm not talking about private unions, are taking advantage of. So I think we have a big battle in front of us. We have already deferred about $350 million from Minnesota because their past receipts, what they pay us, what they show us they paid, don't add up to in our mind, we did just too much variance. And again, Medicaid, which is for poorer people, folks who are vulnerable. The state pays the bill and then we reimburse them as opposed to Medicare, which is for older folks, where we just pay the bill to get go. And we have a lot more control over Medicare. That's why things like hospice fraud are so maddening to me. Because hospice fraud happens when states don't police licenses and the federal government's not paying attention. And the prior administration actively ignored warning signs that there were problems. And in California, the auditor general of the state of California four years ago said, we have a fraud problem. You must act. No one did anything.
- [60:06]
A
I have a question. How much of this accelerated under the Biden administration? How bad? I'm sure it was there before, but like, did post Covid, during Biden, did it just get extraordinarily worse?
- [60:17]
D
It was weaponized after Covid. Now, two parts to that answer. First, Covid itself taught a lot of people, especially foreigners who didn't understand America and foreign governments, they could steal from the federal government and probably not get caught. Just the whole way we conducted our business of government during COVID But then add to that the Biden administration's willful disregard for fraud they knew was happening. People in my agency, even folks who are not maybe politically aligned, who have been there for years, and career employees, they'll acknowledge, listen, they came to government to work and fix stuff. They're not just sitting there trying to collect a paycheck.
- [60:53]
A
The good ones. Yeah.
- [60:54]
D
Yeah. Well, the reason I say that in my agency, Medicare, Medicaid, these are insurance people. These are actuarials. I mean, these people can get paid twice as much money outside the government. So if they're going to come in, they want to do their job, and they were told, stand down, don't do that. Instead, just focus on enrolling new people. And the more we realize the implications of that, that you think you're doing good by bringing people onto these. These programs that don't have the right reasons to be on those programs, you actually hurt the people deserve to be on there. So let me just finish with hospice real quick. In California, one third of all hospices in the entire country, in the whole country are in Los Angeles. Not California, just the city of Los Angeles. And so you begin to appreciate that half of these folks are probably fraudulent, that that's a corruption that is so deep, it's not about whittling off the edges. It's not about sending a memo out. In fact, when the memos are being sent out from California, someone in Sacramento at a senior level, stomps them down, literally in the end of December, they were trying to do something that was going to be very helpful. They would have taken action on January 1. The rule was simple. Doctors may not participate in more than one hospice. Why would you just take care of the one hospice you're in? You get multiple hospices. You can get paid more. People bribe you to lie about people who are going to die and so they can collect more money. So they were going to stop that down. Sacramento blocked it. Why did you get in the way of fixing an integrity issue in something as precious as hospice is? Because you actually don't want to fix it.
- [62:21]
B
There's something. So I think my favorite preposterous aspect of the California hospice fraud thing, specifically the California AG specifically attacked you when you did your viral video in Los Angeles. You were finding all of these fraudulent ones linked to gangs, Armenian gangs specifically, in many cases. And Banta, I'm trying to find the quote here. And he said basically that this was a reckless and false allegation. And then literally last August, he'd been bragging about how there was an epidemic of fraud, of hospice fraud, specifically in California. And he was fighting it. And they just, they turn around and they're threatening to sue you for pointing out how bad.
- [62:56]
D
Oh, they're not threatening to sue me. They. They're suing me. They're coming out now. I'm thinking, you understand, this is how animals in the wild who are being, you know, hunted, cornered. When they're cornered, they obfuscate. They release a smoke stream. That's what they're trying to do. Which of course isn't going to work for us. The president is not going to be slowed down, nor me or anybody else he hires from going after the duty we swore to upheld, which is to protect the American people. Now here's the reality. That kind of corruption, but it does two things. First off, if you're willing to steal someone's money, you'll steal their life. These folks have no morals at all. Many of them, by the way, they're not Americans. Or if they came here. There's one bus that I just gotta tell you about because I saw your sponsor before I came on these guys, they stole $58 million with fake hospice like they manufactured. They didn't take care of anybody. They just sent in blank bills. They got paid by the state or by the federal government. They wanted to get their money out of the country to go back where they came from. They converted it to gold. They bought gold bars. Even criminals now, they buy gold bars. So put it in their suitcases and they're escaping. Thankfully, the office of Inspector General, great people got a search warrant, got some of the money back, but some of the money went back to where they came from. And I'm looking at these stories and thinking, this is so preposterous. You Would never imagine anybody would tolerate this. You come from another country, we take you in, we're giving you the blessings of being in America. You rob from our most vulnerable people, convert it to gold so egregiously so you can get out of the country because you know you'll get caught eventually. And we're in California anyway. They're whittling around, spending time. I mean, Wednesday, I was blessed to join the DEA with 200 agents to go into MacArthur Park. There's one of the biggest open air drug markets in the country, and shut down the Sinaloa gang doing business there. Listen, the group, These investigators found 19 kilos of fentanyl. That's enough to kill maybe 190,000 people. That's what the agents told me. That's a lot of, lot of bad stuff. And it's these. The gangs write their names on the buildings in LA because they own those buildings. Like, you can't go there. So the, you know, the 18th street gang, Ms. 13, they own parts of the city. I'm thinking, my goodness, a foreign cartel, supported maybe by even foreign governments are owning parts of the city of Los Angeles. Why does the federal government have to come in and rescue them? You know, what happened to Sacramento, what happened to the governor?
- [65:14]
A
And they don't want to be rescued. That's what's worse. They fight you guys, they sue you guys, they create political ads demonizing you guys.
- [65:22]
B
Do we have a ballpark estimate? What is the national scale? How much are we losing to fraud generally? These foreign gangs just basically looting America.
- [65:31]
D
We believe Medicare and Medicaid loses $100 billion a year. To put it in perspective, that folks can process, if you're young, as many of your listeners are, and you think you're going to retire on Medicare, if we could take the fraud out of the system, we would double the life expectancy of the Medicare trust fund. In other words, your Medicare would last twice as long. So if you're worried about Medicare being strong enough to take care of you after you've worked a long life, help us with the fraud effort. If you have anyone that you know, that you think is defrauding us, call, call, you know, this podcast or if you got a loved one who's sharing their beneficiary number, their Medicare number with anybody else, stop them. Because that's like a credit card. Foreign countries take that card. They, they weaponize it. They steal from us.
- [66:11]
A
Dr. Mehmet Oz, not a TV star. No, no. This guy is a serious operator who is addressing one of the most critical needs in our federal government and that's driving out, rooting out waste, fraud and abuse in our Medicare and Medicaid systems. And man, it has been one of the central storylines even so much so that you have J.D. vance singing your praises, specifically naming you for the work that you're doing on this. I actually had the honor of being the one interviewing him in this moment. 5 who's been amazing on this is Dr. Oz, Mehmet Oz, who runs the center for Medicare and Medicaid Services because so much of the fraud in our system is people who are defrauding Medicare and Medicaid. Dr. Oz, working with some of the people in our Department of Justice found is that in Southern California you had all these people who were engaged in massive fraud against the Medicare system. You had just tons and tons of people getting rich off fraud. And so we had our sort of our weekly fraud check in call two weeks ago and Dr. Oz called in but he's like, hey, I got to
- [67:15]
D
go because I'm about to hop on
- [67:16]
A
the bus and we're going to go arrest a bunch of fraudsters in Los Angeles.
- [67:19]
D
I was like, that's exactly what I
- [67:20]
A
want you to do. By all means, get off the phone. So proof is in the pudding, right? Here's, here's the proof.
- [67:27]
D
Site 1 here as a big hospice center there apparently quite a few hospices around here, 42 within a four block radius. And these guys stole $16 million. What we have learned is there's roughly three and a half billion dollars of fraud taking place here in Los Angeles in hospice and home care.
- [67:49]
B
It's 42 hospices in three blocks, three or four blocks.
- [67:53]
A
This is the fact that it has gone on this long without us realize. I mean we knew we'd always Elon would say like there's all this fraud. And we'd be like, okay, okay.
- [68:02]
B
And you people have talked about, you go around neighborhoods of cities and you say, you see these buildings, there's never activity around them. There's constant, there's all these signs for businesses and they're just sort of vacant, empty. Saw this in Minneapolis with the Quality Leering Center.
- [68:18]
A
That really blew the lid on business
- [68:19]
B
that's getting millions of dollars. And then they talk to locals and they say, I've never seen any person set foot here.
- [68:24]
D
By the way, I want to compliment the vice president because the president, the president obviously anointed him to lead the White House Anti Fraud Task Force. But he's been a spectacular hands on leader. We campaigned together by the way in 2022. And actually Charlie came and visited and Turning Point was very supportive in both of our efforts. So thank you for that. But the opportunity to have the vice president lead, never. An effort like this ensures that all the different agencies within government work together. You make a great point. Why wasn't this noticed before? Well, part of it was ideological. I mean, the prior administration just did not care about fraud. It wasn't what they thought was the problem. Unfortunately, they were wrong. But even if you want to fix it in government, if I'm doing the accounting work and telling you, you know, hey, these guys are taking five times more money than anybody else around, or there's 42 of these facilities, you know, working within a four block radius, which is impossible. Why do you need 42 hospices in four blocks? They would normally naturally be dispersed. You also have to be able to get the FBI to pay attention and you have to get the Office of Inspector General. They're guys who are like the beat cops going out there and catching a lot of these guys and getting the clues. You need Department of Justice to focus. You need to have accounting and banking support. Because remember, what you really appreciate is the small level guys, just like the drug business, they make small amounts of money. A million here, million there. Then it aggregates up through money laundering and other ways of obfuscating where the cash is headed to these large criminal syndicates. And these syndicates, they're dangerous. They'll scare you. I went to Flushing, New York recently. Now, for folks who don't know Flushing, New York, there's a massive Chinese population there. And I ran into, I was looking at these things called social adult daycare centers. They're basically unlicensed facilities where seniors can come together. They do it because they can recruit people in these facilities to give up their Medicare beneficiary numbers, which are like credit cards. They say, listen, I'll pay you 1000 bucks a month. You sign this document saying you came here every day. We're going to send you home health care even if you don't need it. We're going to send you wheelchairs you don't need, expensive prescription branded drugs you don't want. I'm going to send you for X rays you don't need just because you can generate billing. So they do all this stuff. I go there and I run into my charge nurse. Now she's like Nurse Ratched. She's a tough nut. I've opened chest with her. You know, we've been through some life and death circumstances. Nothing phases her. She sees me. She initially hugs me. She's so happy I'm there. And then she asked me why I'm there. And I have some guys around me. They look like they're FBI and doj, because they were right. They came from the Southern District. We went over there and she says, if you're with law enforcement, you have to leave right now. And I said, what do you mean? She says, very dangerous. Very dangerous. You must go right now. And then she ran away and warned me to get out of town. And then I learned later on that nobody actually will testify against these guys again. Organized criminal elements. There may even be Chinese government involvement here. So please don't think these are, you know, small little scoundrels. Not a few Somalians here and there. This is weaponized in South Florida because it's not just a blue state problem. There are twice as many durable medical equipment suppliers than McDonald's. That's impossible. I mean, Bobby, as great as he is not shutting McDonald's down. Right? So you've got. You're seeing now massive growth. Why? We think the Cuban government might be involved. Mayor Suarez thought that we have Cuban nationals that are often put as the titular owners, but they don't. They pretend to send bills out again with stolen beneficiary numbers. They generate billions of dollars.
- [71:39]
A
Can we make it like I involved to. Like this? Are we doing that?
- [71:43]
D
Oh, yeah, big time.
- [71:44]
A
Okay.
- [71:44]
D
We have. So we have a. We. We announced a major fraud center. And this is a. It's all technology based without doing anything else but looking with AI at where the numbers don't work. What you used to build this much, now you're building way up and you're much higher than anyone around you or you're in the wrong place.
- [72:01]
A
Lack of oversight because. Because you talk about the states. We had Luke Rosiak on the show, who was the Daily Wire did that Medicaid millionaire story that came out.
- [72:09]
D
I read it.
- [72:09]
A
Yeah.
- [72:10]
D
Excellent work.
- [72:10]
A
One of the issues you talk about, it's not just a blue state issue. This is Ohio Governor DeWine. They intentionally rolled back some of the accountability and oversight, these waiver programs. What are you gonna do about that? To hold the states accountable.
- [72:21]
D
It's a brilliant question. Because when you really get down to it, you have people who are not breaking the law. They're just breaking the moral code. We have a deal in America, like all great people, we will take care of our most vulnerable. Hubert Humphrey was a Democrat, but this is back in the 60s, said it was the Moral test of government to take care of those at the dawn of life, our children. We cover 53% of all kids born in America on Medicaid or chips. Take care of those at the twilight of life, our seniors, and take care of those living in the shadows, people on drugs, people who are. Who just can't get out of their own way. So our job is to take care of our fellow men when they struggle. When you allow people to pilfer. To pilfer these entities and take advantage of our most vulnerable, we're abdicating our responsibility. And that's what I'm seeing. And again, it's not just blue states. We're seeing it in many places. And we're gonna hold folks accountable. It is imperative that we buckle down and send a very clear message that what started and really got weaponized during COVID is done. We're not going to tolerate this. It's a new sheriff in town. We're coming after you. And I'll tell you, the vice president, we've, you know, had significant discussions around this. Colin, the team, Andrew Ferguson or that whole team around him that he's brought in is getting everyone working together. When you bring all the fingers together, you make a fist. And we're going to pound hard until we clean up.
- [73:39]
A
But couldn't you change regulations? If you're going to, like, get these grants or this reimbursements that you have to enforce certain things or get rid of these waiver programs, could you do something like that?
- [73:49]
D
They're actively doing that.
- [73:50]
A
Okay, good.
- [73:50]
D
We have. We have rulemaking that I'm supposed to speak about till we actually publish them. But a lot of it is the federal government doing its job too. But, you know, I inherited an agency I think is fantastic, but we had definite shortcomings. It's a. This failure was across all of government.
- [74:05]
B
I just wanted to put in scope. You mentioned $100 billion a year of fraud just within your office. That's the annual cost of the war in Afghanistan. And another way of putting it, I love. The scale of lifetime tax contributions of the average American is about $500,000. So that's 200,000 people's lifetime's worth of taxes in fraud. That's the population here. We're right by Tempe, Arizona or Sioux Falls, the city I'm from. Like everyone there. Their lifetime of tax contributions burned up, stolen by Chinese, Russian, Cuban gangs looted.
- [74:39]
A
Yeah, well. So you talked about why this was allowed to continue. I think this is a deep ideological sickness within the left I think that they see it as either a form of reparations or political patronage, like you said, that they're paying off their voting constituents. And these are states, New York, California, that are losing jobs, that are losing productive class citizenry to red states. This is a way to backfill the tax base. This is a way to keep people happy Fed. But I think it's a form of they feel like the white man or the, the capitalist or whatever their boogeyman is, have pilfered from them. So they're going to pilfer and make sure that the immigrant class, the black and brown class, is compensated fairly. I don't think they want to see this stuff. I genuinely think they want to turn a blind eye to it because they know it's happening and they want it to happen. That's my opinion. You don't have to agree with it. Explain just the ideology that you think because you're coming into this agency and working with the states, you're seeing it. What's driving them? What do you think it is?
- [75:45]
D
I think after Obamacare, when the percentage of the federal government's contribution to the state government went up, people began to figure out they might be able to game this. Now everyone sort of realized there was a risk here. But is there a war in the patriarchy? That's an obviously issue we can talk about quite a bit. But within this, I don't have to assess motivation. I can just assess action. What you are doing is actively destroying our country and you're destroying programs that I personally have worked in my whole life and I love. Medicare is an incredibly effective crown jewel of our social safety net. Every American can work their life as hard as they want, and if they can't work for whatever reason, it's still okay. By age 65, you can go on Medicare. We will take care of you. There are no hungry old people in the streets dying of treatable illnesses. Younger people who have again fallen and can't get up on Medicaid. We have a beautiful program to help them. These programs work because we have a handshake agreement that we will trust each other. And I say that because if I'm starting to pay for things that your family should do for you and you didn't have to do that, you're cheating if the person was supposed to come to your house and carry the groceries upstairs, never shows up. You're cheating if that person doesn't have any credentials or right to do it, or not supposed to be able to drive you to the doctor's office, and they do that, you're cheating. All this happens in an unmonitored setting. So the entire program of these non traditional services in Medicaid are built in a handshake and trust. It's a flighting entity. It's like fizzy water on your tongue. If you don't take care of it and protect it, it dissipates. And when people stop trusting Medicaid, they will stop paying into it. We will abandon Americans if that happens. So we're not gonna let that happen. Like anybody who loves a program, you'll do even difficult things to save it, and that's what we're up to.
- [77:30]
A
You know, Blake tells a story. I don't know where you got this, but I know I got it from you. Of it was an Asian culture. I don't know if it was Japan or South Korea, but a man caught an American. Japan, Japan, trying to jaywalk. And the man stopped the person and said, basically, if I let you jaywalk, like he says, the downfall of civilization
- [77:49]
B
begins with the individual.
- [77:50]
D
Blake, that. Is that how you raise your kids?
- [77:53]
A
Yes. That's why all of this matters. It's like, I'm telling you, it's like the old adage is like the individual sin if it doesn't hurt somebody. My individual choices, they don't hurt them, so I'm allowed to do them. The downfall of civilization begins with the individual. And then you compound it until you have $100 billion in fraud. And I just. We'll wrap it here. Dr. Oz, I think you are the perfect man for this job. It's like for such a time as this, you're taking it on with such zest and zealous and, you know, a grateful nation thanks you. Genuinely thank you for how much energy you're bringing to this. And you seem to have just a joy in doing your job, and that's what we need in the federal government. So thank you.
- [78:33]
D
You know, I love my job, and I'm blessed to be able to say this to the president once in a while because I love being a heart surgeon. I mean, I did. It was the best job in the world. You get to look people in the eyes and you're there for each other. It's rewarding every single day. I loved hosting the show like you. I got to talk to folks every single day and. And try to share insights that might be beneficial. But this is unique because I'm in the change business like you are, and the ability to go out there and fix problems instead of Just complaining about them. It exists. So let me leave you with one request. We're out there recruiting people to come join us. Not just to call in when you have problems and tips, but I actually want more people in the agency. We're going to recruit a thousand more people, folks who understand. Understand the passion that we all have and share it. And if you're thinking about it, you're watching at home and you're thinking, oh, this is going to hell. We got to fix this problem. Come join us. Start rolling the oars with us. There's lots to do.
- [79:19]
A
We got a lot of Turning Point students that are graduating, too. So if you entry levels, it's not
- [79:24]
D
an accident I'm here.
- [79:24]
A
Yeah.
- [79:25]
D
I'm recruiting from Turning Point.
- [79:26]
A
Yeah. I love it. I love it. Hey, final thought, actually, I lied. Maha. Do you have a word for Maha? You're. You're a health guy. Such an important part of our coalition.
- [79:37]
D
You know, I love Maha, every part about it. The secretary is a fantastic boss at every level. He's passionate. He will not take no for an answer. When he locks into things, he goes after it. I think the changes to the dietary guidelines are so important because they reverse the hypocrisy that has afflicted our nation for decades. And now we're asking all the hospitals in the country to sign a pledge to use those same guidelines in their food, all the schools to do the same. And we are pushing as hard as possible to get lots of other problems that I think are making it hard in America to raise healthy kids. And I say that because moms will say frequently to me, hey, listen, my mom, I know she struggled with me raising me, but it's not like I'm having a problem with my kids. They're sick. They've got these issues that I just can't get ahead of. And Maha, fundamentally is about making it easy to be healthy and to answer the hard questions. You've got to be curious. And I pledge to you, that's what Secretary Kennedy is more than anything else. He's curious. He's also courageous. When he learns things and we see problems, we tell you about him immediately. And we ought to be compassionate, because there are a lot of folks who don't understand. They're scared by what Maha's trying to do. But I think it is fundamentally the most important thing we can do to improve the guy who takes my job next. Because we cannot afford to be twice as expensive in our healthcare system as any other country on the planet. And we're twice as expensive because we're twice as sick. And a lot of that's because we have again made it hard to be healthy in America. Let's turn that around.
- [81:03]
A
I know you gotta go doctor us. It's been a pleasure. Thank you again for your time. Honor, as always, it's been a great joy.
- [81:12]
E
For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.