THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 88 — Tucker v. Cruz? The Bloodthirsty Base? Charlie Goes to the WNBA?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Charlie Kirk Show — THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 88

Host: Charlie Kirk
Guests: Blake, Jack, Tyler
Release Date: June 21, 2025

---

Introduction and Welcome

The episode opens with Charlie Kirk welcoming his guests—Blake, Jack, and Tyler—to a lively discussion segment titled "Thought Crime." The initial moments focus on praising Charlie's contributions as the founder of Turning Point USA and his role in mobilizing youth across campuses nationwide.

Notable Quote:

• "Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk."
  —Blake [00:00-00:39]

---

Geopolitical Discussions: Iran, Military Intervention, and Ethics

Invading Iran: Population, Geography, and Military Challenges

The conversation delves into the contentious topic of military intervention in Iran. A caller's radical proposition to invade Iran with ground troops prompts a detailed analysis of the logistical and demographic challenges. The guests highlight Iran's vast population—over 90 million—and its extensive geographical expanse, making any ground invasion a monumental and likely unsuccessful endeavor.

Notable Quotes:

• "There's nothing news this week... Buckle up, everybody. Here we go."
  —Charlie Kirk [00:00-00:39]

• "If 10,000 American troops died, would you be okay with that? I would."
  —Unnamed Caller [04:19-07:28]

Ethical Implications of Nuclear Warfare

The discussion intensifies as the topic shifts to the ethical considerations of using nuclear weapons against Tehran. The guests express profound concerns over the moral ramifications of such an action, referencing historical events like the Chernobyl disaster to underscore the long-term human and environmental consequences.

Notable Quotes:

• "How could there be a sitting senator from one of the most powerful Republican states in the country who...you should know."
  —Charlie Kirk [39:35-40:16]

• "It's a moral darkness that has to be confronted."
  —Charlie Kirk [20:07]

Historical Context and Lessons

Anchoring their arguments in history, the guests recount past military campaigns, including those led by Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar, to illustrate the futility and devastation of prolonged invasions. They emphasize that wars rarely unfold as planners envision, often leading to unintended and catastrophic outcomes.

Notable Quotes:

• "Alexander the Great once marched his army across it, and about half of them died in the process."
  —Tyler [10:29-10:52]

• "Wars get very complicated and wars get very messy."
  —Jack [25:32-27:18]

Viral Debate: Tucker Carlson vs. Ted Cruz

A segment from a debate between Tucker Carlson and Senator Ted Cruz surfaces, igniting widespread online discussion. The central issue revolves around the ethical and practical implications of toppling the Iranian government without sufficient knowledge of the country's demographics and societal structure. The guests critique the lack of understanding displayed by political figures, stressing the importance of informed decision-making in foreign policy.

Notable Quotes:

• "How many people living around by the way?"
  —Unnamed Caller [33:13-34:11]

• "You just realize we could walk into this thing where you can just step on a landmine and you have no idea where any of them are buried because you don't know what you're doing."
  —Blake [35:00-35:10]

Religious and Theological Perspectives on Israel

The conversation touches upon the intersection of theology and geopolitics, particularly regarding support for Israel. Charlie critiques the misuse of biblical scripture in political arguments, advocating for a more nuanced and knowledgeable approach when integrating religious beliefs into policy debates.

Notable Quotes:

• "What is Israel? And Catholics would say, it's fine, I don't want to get into it."
  —Charlie Kirk [40:15-41:55]

• "It should have just been diffusing. Instead, Ted was almost getting, in my opinion, I have a lot of respect for Ted."
  —Charlie Kirk [42:28-43:18]

---

Cultural Impact and Media Influence

Online Viral Clips and Generational Perspectives

The episode highlights how specific moments from interviews and debates can go viral, particularly among Gen Z audiences. The guests discuss the potential influence of these viral moments on public perception and policy, suggesting that such clips can shape the cultural zeitgeist and influence political discourse.

Notable Quotes:

• "It's the number one most viral thing with all of Gen Z."
  —Jack [37:26-37:56]

• "If you are someone...Charlie, it's confusing for someone who doesn't know all of the backstory."
  —Jack [47:18-47:56]

Public Perception and Policy Implications

Guests express concern over how surface-level understandings, fueled by viral content, can lead to misinformed opinions on serious geopolitical issues. They advocate for comprehensive discussions and informed debates to prevent the spread of misinformation and irresponsible policy advocacy.

Notable Quotes:

• "I think this is a perfect example of how our values have changed."
  —Tyler [13:00-13:18]

• "It's an interview, it was like over an hour long. It's quite long, sustained interview that hits on a lot of topics."
  —Tyler [51:24-53:09]

---

Transition to WNBA: Violent Incidents and Gender Roles

Caitlin Clark and Sophie Cunningham's Altercation

Shifting gears, the discussion transitions to recent events in the Women's National Basketball Association (WNBA). The guests analyze a specific altercation involving star player Caitlin Clark and her bodyguard, Sophie Cunningham. They debate the portrayal of violence in women's sports and its broader implications on gender roles and societal expectations.

Notable Quotes:

• "Here's Caitlin Clark. She's targeting. Then they just throw her to the ground."
  —Charlie Kirk [55:00-56:00]

• "This is Sophie Cunningham. She just goes full Ron Artest on her."
  —Charlie Kirk [62:04-62:58]

Discussions on Women's Basketball and Societal Impacts

The conversation reflects on the increasing popularity of the WNBA and the societal reactions to aggressive behavior in women's sports. The guests humorously speculate on potential promotional strategies to boost attendance, such as "Protect Caitlin" shirts and engaging marketing tactics to attract a broader audience.

Notable Quotes:

• "We should make big news. I'm just telling you right now, we would make very big news."
  —Charlie Kirk [60:32-60:37]

• "This may be straighter than Lord of the Rings."
  —Sophie Cunningham [58:55-59:11]

---

Conclusion and Final Remarks

As the episode wraps up, Charlie Kirk and his guests reflect on the discussions, emphasizing the importance of informed debate and the dangers of oversimplified narratives in both geopolitical and cultural contexts. They also touch upon future topics, including potential live episodes from WNBA games and ongoing societal issues.

Notable Quotes:

• "Keep committing thought crimes. Trust President Trump. He's doing a great job."
  —Charlie Kirk [65:44-65:58]

• "For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com."
  —Tyler [65:58]

---

Key Takeaways

1. Military Intervention in Iran: The guests caution against unplanned military actions in Iran, highlighting logistical challenges and ethical concerns, especially regarding nuclear warfare.

2. Ethical and Moral Implications: There's a strong emphasis on the moral responsibility of avoiding civilian casualties and understanding the profound consequences of nuclear strikes.

3. Historical Lessons: Drawing parallels from historical invasions, the guests argue that wars often deviate from initial plans, resulting in unforeseen hardships.

4. Religious Influence on Policy: The misuse of biblical scriptures in political arguments is critiqued, advocating for informed and contextually accurate religious integrations into policy discussions.

5. Media's Role in Shaping Perception: Viral clips from debates can significantly influence public opinion, especially among younger demographics, underscoring the need for comprehensive and informed discussions.

6. Cultural Discussions on the WNBA: The episode explores the portrayal of violence in women's sports, societal gender roles, and strategies to increase the popularity and engagement of the WNBA.

---

End of Summary

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, everybody, thought crime with Blake, Jack, Tyler, Great conversation. We talk about a lot of things, including Israel, Iran, the WNBA and federal lands. Email us as always, freedomarliekirk.com and become a member today. Members.charliekirk.com that is members.charliekirk.Com and get involved with TurningPoint USA today at tpusa.com that is tpusa.com Start a Turning Point USA chapter today at tpusa.com Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

[Blake]

Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

[Charlie Kirk]

I want to thank Charlie.

[Jack]

He's an incredible guy.

[Charlie Kirk]

His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold investments@noblegold investments.com that is noblegoldinvestments.com it's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegoldinvestments.com okay, everybody, welcome. We are doing thought crime right now. We have Blake, we have Jack, we have Tyler. We have lots to talk about.

[Tyler]

I feel like a few things have happened this week, Charlie.

[Charlie Kirk]

Just a couple things.

[Jack]

So what do you mean there's nothing news this week? We talk about. I don't even know what we're going to get into really.

[Charlie Kirk]

And I've just kind of been home this week. No. No real idea what's been happening.

[Tyler]

We need to get Charlie in.

[Jack]

Tyler, are you at the beach?

[Charlie Kirk]

Are you.

[Jack]

Are you at the beach right now, Tyler?

[Sophie Cunningham]

I am in. I'm in Jack's world outside of Philadelphia.

[Jack]

That's right.

[Tyler]

An Eagles game. Saw that on your Instagram season though. We know how much Jack loves the Eagles.

[Charlie Kirk]

It will be NFL season soon.

[Tyler]

Excuse me.

[Jack]

I love the champion Eagles.

[Tyler]

Thank you, Charlie. Speaking of you, you're saying, you know, whether you were in the news or not. I feel like it'd be really funny if we, if. If we could get you into like Catholic level religious retreats. Like go out for a walking. Put your phone away. I've been reading a biography of an old emperor and he, during Holy Week. He's the emperor of, like, the largest empire in Europe. Holy Week. He would just go to a monastery for a week and do no official business.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's amazing.

[Tyler]

So, like, imagine if you started doing that and then you just come back after a week and they'd be like, charlie, we're. You know, World War 3 started, and you're like, oh. Oh, gosh. Charlie does that.

[Charlie Kirk]

I do that every.

[Jack]

Charlie, do you do that every Saturday, though?

[Charlie Kirk]

I do, yeah. No matter what's going on, you do the Saturday.

[Jack]

No phone.

[Charlie Kirk]

Friday night, turning off. So that's right.

[Tyler]

Shabbat shalom.

[Jack]

We get Charlie. I gotta say that I.

[Tyler]

Silent for.

[Jack]

What about when there's an event that is the exception?

[Charlie Kirk]

It's hard. I actually turn off my phone, but I do have to work. But I did it without a phone at least. And it makes it actually a lot more relaxing. And I'm more present, for sure. But I'd say four or five weekends a year, I have to. I have to work. But it's just the nature of the beast. So you have to sometimes have an exception.

[Tyler]

Do you ever. Do you try to rotate it at all? Where. Like Sunday, then you try to make.

[Charlie Kirk]

Up, but on Sunday, I try to. It's harder because.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Cause I remember. I remember on Saturday, somebody hit me up trying to get a hold of you, and I was at the parade, and I was like, oh, Charlie's on his phone on Saturday. And I was like. I was like, yeah, you. You got to go through someone else. But then. But then. But then I did get a message from you in the chat, and I was like, oh, maybe he is on his phone.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. So last Saturday at Women's Summit, I had it on in the morning, and then I turned off my phone the rest of the day. And so I was like, yeah, this is too much, by the way. It was like the Minnesota. Terrible story in Minnesota. It was just like, all this about Israel, Iran. I'm like, I can't.

[Jack]

It was crazy right now.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, it was too much. It was literally information overload. Speaking of which. So this episode might get a little dated, so let's try to make this in more of a timeless. Are we doing Persia first?

[Tyler]

We'll do it. But yeah, we can zoom out.

[Charlie Kirk]

We're not.

[Tyler]

Obviously something like.

[Charlie Kirk]

Let's actually, you know, do we have a piece of tape from the nuke Boomer Shane that we could pull? I actually think it's a very interesting place to start. Right. So. So. So on my. On our program, there was One of our members, and I don't want to insult him. He's a member. He pays money. Like, good for him. Like, I think it's an insane view that he has. And thank you for being a member. Two different members called us in during the hour, and this was non sarcastic. Right. One of which said that there is no cost great enough if we were to invade Iran with ground troops.

[Tyler]

He said he made the comparison to the Book of Esther, that. What's his name?

[Charlie Kirk]

Haman. Haman.

[Tyler]

Haman. He is the Persian vizier official in the Shah's court.

[Charlie Kirk]

Just to be clear, Haman is closely to, like, Hitler. Like, the Ayatollah is threatening to be Hitler. But he actually hasn't killed nearly as many Jews as, like, Hamish.

[Tyler]

I was telling Charlie this week that a lot of people don't realize Iran to this day has the largest Jewish minority of the Muslim states in the Middle east remaining. So there used to be hundreds of thousands of Jews in Yemen, in Egypt, in modern Iraq. Those communities are gone. They've moved to Israel or to the United States, and they're basically extinct. Iran used to have far more. Most of them did leave, but there is a remnant of about 10 to 20,000 Jews in Iran. You can. You can look online. There are Jewish themed tours that you can go to in Iran that are marketed at, like, Jews, Persian Jews who live in Los Angeles, sort of, that they go on vacation there. And I think this is my favorite part. There is a constitutionally required Jewish affirmative action representative in. In the Iranian legislature that they have. They have one for them. They have a couple for the Armenian Christians, and I think they have one for Zoroastrians even.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. And so I looked this up. The Iranian government says that they're anti Zionist, but they do not call for the extermination of the Jewish people.

[Tyler]

That's good. They're moderates, Charlie.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I don't know about that. But I mean, they did say this, though, that I don't think they're moderates. But it's important to note, they say that they call for the destruction of the Zionist regime, which would be a lot of dead Jews, let's just be honest. But they say Jewish Iranians have said, we are Iranian, we are not Zionists. That distinction protects them politically. So there's 15,000 Jews still in Iran. It's not a lot, but I mean, it's interesting because you would think that they would kill all the Jews.

[Tyler]

And to be clear, I think they basically are required to disavow Israel Effectively to avoid harassment. It is not great, but clearly it is better than the Jews who lived in Egypt, who are all gone. You can go to Egypt. I think there are literally three Jews remaining in Egypt, and that used to be one of the largest Jewish communities in the world.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's right. This is it. So this is 4:19. Okay. This is the boots on the ground one. I think this is important because we have to try to define what the consequences of some of this stuff would be and how bad these ideas are, how morally troubling these ideas are. Let's play cut. 419. So very interesting question and thoughtful. How many American troops are you comfortable with to effectuate regime change in Iran?

[Unnamed Caller]

Oh, I don't know. Whatever's necessary.

[Charlie Kirk]

So if 10,000American troops died, would you be okay with that? I would.

[Unnamed Caller]

I think this is the main enemy, not Iraq. This is it.

[Charlie Kirk]

Do you think Iran is a greater enemy than China?

[Unnamed Caller]

Well, we can't defeat China. See, that's an impossible scenario.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, okay. So just to be clear, you would be okay with boots on the ground in Iran?

[Sophie Cunningham]

I would.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay. So, yeah. And then he was followed up by another guy, but Blake. So let's just take that one first. Then we'll do the nuclear weapon one. Why is Iran. Even if we're like, we're going to invade Iran, why would that probably be a really bad idea?

[Tyler]

Exactly. This is actually why. Well, I'm sure we'll get to this later. That, you know that viral exchange between Tucker Carlson and Ted Cruz, like, how many people are in Iran? A relevant question, especially if you're doing boots on the ground. When we invaded Iraq 20 years ago, it had slightly over 20 million people. I want to say 22 million or so. Iran today has over 90 million people. So that is more than four times the size.

[Charlie Kirk]

Incredible.

[Tyler]

And it's pretty spread out. They're not all concentrated in one city or anything. It's a lot. And then geographically, the country Iraq, I want to say, is like 140,000 square miles, maybe 160,000. Iran is over 600,000 square miles. So I think you say like three times the size of Texas.

[Charlie Kirk]

About two and a half times the size of Texas. But also, if you even to get to Tehran, isn't it nestled within mountains all around?

[Tyler]

Yeah, it's a very mountainous country.

[Charlie Kirk]

Very mountainous.

[Tyler]

Like Iraq when we invaded Iraq. Iraq is Tigris River, Euphrates river, and almost all the people kind of live along those rivers. You have some large cities, but it's all sort of In a line going down to the Persian Gulf.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's a very fertile crescent.

[Tyler]

Yeah. Literally the Fertile crescent. And Iran. It's. Yeah, it's. You have Tehran, a city of 16 million people. So that's about the size of New York, plus its immediate suburbs and the.

[Charlie Kirk]

Zagros mountains to the south.

[Tyler]

Yep, yep. I can't remember all of it. I used to.

[Charlie Kirk]

Come on, Blake.

[Tyler]

You know, I used to compete in the geography. I forgot.

[Charlie Kirk]

You got to know every single mountain. Blake, can you not name every person that lives in Tehran?

[Tyler]

I cannot do that. I cannot. I can name at least three cities in Iran, which I think that's the fun follow up to, like, the. How many people live there is, like, name. Name four cities in Iran and.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, I can't. Ow. I mean, like, Mashad Nants, Tabris, Tehran.

[Tyler]

Yeah, all right. You're good. You're good. Isfahan is a good one.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Bandar, boss. Biggest navy base.

[Tyler]

Com. Like Q M. I have no idea how they're supposed to say that, but, like. Yeah, so it's large. It's very geographically varied. Tons of mountains. So the landscape is pretty comparable to, like, Afghanistan. Just tons of mountains, tons of valleys, tons of caves. In those mountains, there's desert, of course. Like, the entire southeast quarter of it is the most barren wilderness ever. Alexander the Great once marched his army across it, and about half of them died in the process.

[Charlie Kirk]

And even so, even though Romans wanted to take perspective. Persia, right. And it was a thousand. It was for a thousand years. They couldn't get it right.

[Tyler]

Yeah, they invaded it multiple times. Julius Caesar was planning an invasion of Persia when he was assassinated. But there were others. One of the allies of Caesar, Marcus Licinius Crassus, he was trying to compete with Caesar. And, you know, Caesar was in Gaul, beaten up on all.

[Charlie Kirk]

Get his head cut off.

[Tyler]

So the story goes, he crosses into the Persian empire. He's not even in modern Persia. He's in modern Syria. At Carr, the Persian army shows up, and this guy was not cut out for military command. He gets beaten right away. They cut his head off. And supposedly they. I can't remember if he was already dead at this point, but they supposedly pour molten gold down his throat because he was the richest man in Rome. And so they were kind of styling him. Styling on him a bit with that.

[Charlie Kirk]

But so, Jack, I want to get this from a military expertise. So, Jack, even if everyone was like, let's go to how many Americans would die to displace the Iranian regime. I mean, this is a major I mean, 100,000.

[Jack]

Well, so, I mean, yeah, if you're talking about an invasion scenario, which would be.

[Charlie Kirk]

Which is what this guy was calling for.

[Jack]

Costly.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right?

[Jack]

You know, so not special operations or one of these bombing runs, but an actual invasion scenario. Keep in mind that the Iraq troop surge was over 100,000 troops just there. And so Iran is a country that is a number of times larger, over twice as large as Iraq was at the time. Also, by the way, the people of Iraq would most likely come in, in some way, shape or form here because at least 50% or more of Iraq currently supports Iran. There's massive protests right there. So you would need. You would need a larger force right now than Russia has in Ukraine to go into Iran to be able to.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold the country and not even like.

[Jack]

Trying to actually occupy it, just to.

[Charlie Kirk]

Be clear, just to get to Tehran. It's not like you can just like, station an aircraft carrier. There's no launching off point. There's like a couple of port city. I mean, this is such a bad idea militarily.

[Tyler]

More deep into the interior.

[Jack]

The Rocky Mountains are basically. It's like the Rocky Mountains are between the Persian Gulf and Tehran.

[Charlie Kirk]

Exactly is the way. And by the way, there's also. There's like, tanks can't go across parts of the desert because the sand. There's like sand traps in it. It's. It's super hot.

[Tyler]

Like, let's just frame it in terms of. So we. I think our peak force when we invaded Iraq was 170,000 troops. So we had 170,000 troops to secure a country of 22 million. So if you just want to maintain the same number of, like, troops per people in the country, you'd need over half a million.

[Charlie Kirk]

You would have to, basically. You would have to move basically all of the troops of the Indo Pacific, all of them, like, all of the troops of Europe, and just say, we're going all in on Iran for what? Exactly. And so. Okay, so that's. So that's bad. Tyler, do you want to chime in on that before we go to Bad Idea 2?

[Sophie Cunningham]

Yeah, it's a bad idea, Charlie. The whole thing is bad. It's a horrible idea.

[Charlie Kirk]

I don't know.

[Sophie Cunningham]

I don't know if there's a single person online that I've seen that thinks that that's a great idea.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, no, no. It gets better.

[Sophie Cunningham]

0.1%.

[Charlie Kirk]

Why refi.com, private student loan debt in America totals about $300 billion. Why refi has been an amazing partner of us. And it's only getting started. They were a huge supporter of our young women's leadership summit. Game changer. Largest ever. Go to yrefi.com that is yrefy.com you don't have to ignore that mountain of student loan statements on your kitchen table anymore. Why refi offers a 3 minute rate check without any credit impact. Go to yrefi.com let's face it, if you have distressed or defaulted private student loans, nobody is coming to bail you out and bankruptcy is not an option. But you could take charge of your situation by contacting yrefi. Go to yrefi.com that is yrefy.com that is yrefi.com Many clients are not able to even make the first monthly payment on their private student loans when they contact yrefi. Go to yrefi.com Again, they don't care what your credit score is. You got to check it out right [e-mail] Yrefi is not a debt settlement company and they work with each borrower individually tailoring each loan. Each borrower's specific situation you will not be calling a faceless call center. Go to yrefi.com that is yrefy.com so the second. Again, I think this one really kind of took our entire team, like speechless. Would you agree, Blake? I think there was.

[Tyler]

It's a very funny is. I. I saw, you know, we get some heads up on what the question will be and I saw that was in the queue. I'm like, we've got to make sure we get to this. This is going to be.

[Charlie Kirk]

I didn't. I didn't know. I was totally taken by surprise. I'm not usually speechless on my show. And this guy's not a troll. Like, by the way, a lot of people hold. Hold this view. Like, this is actually a view that people have. All right, play cut 420. We should drop a neutron bomb on Tehran. Okay, so just to make sure I'm understanding your question, are you recommending dropping a neutron bomb on Tehran?

[Jack]

Yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, so, I mean, I'm sorry. No, keep going. No, I just said the thing is, one option is the end of civilization as we know it if World War three breaks out. If we hit Toronto. Neutron bomb and they don't even know.

[Jack]

Why it hit them.

[Charlie Kirk]

I don't know. So you're clear. Like 3 million people would die, including kids and civilians. That. That's. That's how many people. How many people would die if we let this go to World War Three. Okay. So. And then I pressed him further, and it was like, you know, he didn't really know the difference in a neutron bomb, by the way. A neutron bomb is actually, like, even more inhumane because, like, all the buildings stay in. Like, the whole thing's like.

[Tyler]

They're an interesting thing. It's like, the idea is normal nuclear bombs, they shoot out a ton of neutrons, but they're kind of contained by the nature of design. This sort of intentionally shoots out, and it's like. It's like a pulse of radiation. It can like, kill tons of stuff. I know they would use it. It would be like a tactical nuclear weapon because you can use it to, like, kill armor really easily. It's. It's all complicated. It figures a lot in conspiracy theories. Did you know this?

[Charlie Kirk]

No.

[Tyler]

There's a conspiracy theory that the US Used a neutron bomb on Baghdad's airport to capture it in the Iraq war.

[Charlie Kirk]

Really?

[Tyler]

So I once. I once ran into a guy who was. Who was pitching that conspiracy theory to me. This was a decade ago, but. Yeah. So the idea is, it's. It's supposedly the. It's the clean nuke, because it's just designed to kill people. It doesn't kill. You know.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

It doesn't kill buildings. And building lives matter, Charlie.

[Charlie Kirk]

So, Jack, I mean, I can't help but be somewhat speechless by all of this. I mean, is this really an op, like, people are thinking, the cruelty, by the way, I asked him if he was a Christian later, and he said yes. How could you, as a Christian, even, like, begin to, like, just the opening.

[Tyler]

Volley of a war is to just eradicate a city of 16 million people, Jack.

[Jack]

Yeah. You know, and these are serious ethical questions that, of course, come up in the context of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They come up in the context of the Allied strategic bombing of World War II, many of which, as we know, were. Because with these atomic weapons, they don't discriminate, Right. They don't discriminate between combatants and enemy combatants. They don't discriminate between any of that. So civilians, children, women. You mentioned the Jewish population of Iran, any of them happen to be within the blast radius of this thing, they're. They're all gone. They're. They're all absolutely gone. And. And if they live, if they're in the. In the next radius, and then beyond that, you've got radiation sickness, you've got cancer, you've got all sorts of things going on there. My. My wife comes from Belarus, and people know, fortunately, she's from the. The western side of Belarus. The eastern side is where the Chernobyl fallout hit. And the Chernobyl fallout still affects people to this day in eastern Belarus. And people who were born around that time, so late 80s, early 90s, you do have a lot of malformations. You have a lot of cancers. You have a whole host of issues. Because even though Chernobyl is in Ukraine, it's right on the border of Belarus. And the way the winds were blowing it, it really, really went into. Went into the civilian population. And it was right around the same time as May Day. And in the Soviet Union, May Day was this huge parade. So again, you just had all these civilians. This wasn't. And that. That was just an accident. That wasn't an actual nuclear strike. That, again, that was just an accident. And we know how bad Chernobyl was. And, you know, she's told me, also put it this way, when. When HBO put that movie out or the miniseries out about Chernobyl, I showed her the trailer for it, and she couldn't even. She couldn't even make it through the trailer. She couldn't even watch the movie itself with me. So I watched the miniseries alone because she said, this is just too personal. It's too close to home. I know too many people or have had families who were affected by this, and I just. I can't watch it. So she couldn't even watch it.

[Charlie Kirk]

I mean, just like, where are. I mean, it's really a sick thing that people would just say, go kill 3 million civilians, like, babies and women that have nothing to do with this. Like, this is a moral darkness that has to be confronted.

[Tyler]

It's sad. And what's kind of.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's sick.

[Tyler]

I've, you know, I've read, like, one of the darkest things actually about, you know, World War II's impact on humanity is it did very much, like, normalize in Christian European civilization. Like, it kind of brought back the idea it was okay to just go total war on someone. Like, absolute war against an entire country and all of its people, which I feel at the peak of Western Christian European civilization, we had. We had rolled that idea back. Like, the U.S. civil War killed tons of people, yet there were almost no mass atrocities against civilians. They did occur, but they were war crimes, and people got hanged for them. The American Revolution, despite certain inaccurate Mel Gibson movies, does not involve mass atrocities against civilians. There are huge. The Napoleonic wars, a lot of people die in those. But again, you do not have it as a norm that you just roll into a town and kill everybody, or when it comes close to that, people are horrified. And it's hugely controversial. But now, you know, World War II, it was. You know, they normalize the idea of total war. You wage war on an entire country and all of its people, and people are a resource. So you're okay to attack them because you have to attack.

[Jack]

I do. I do think I should. Since we are on thug crime. I do think if you're going to say that, I probably should bring up that the March to the Sea, Sherman's March, was not exactly. Not exactly the. The cleanest.

[Tyler]

No, that's where you're mistaken, Jack.

[Jack]

That is. He literally shelled Atlanta.

[Tyler]

No, no, no. You see, that is. That is where your mistake. I once went and researched. I invite you all. This is one of my favorite things. I once did this. I looked up every county that the March to the Sea went through, and we have the 1860 U.S. census. And we have the 1870 U.S. census. Every single place that the Sherman's March to the Sea went through had more people in 1870 than it did in 1860. Like, the funny thing is, is in the south, you'll have, like, all these small towns will have this story.

[Jack]

So you're saying the March to the Sea was bloodless?

[Tyler]

Basically. There were, like. There were like, no atrocities in the March to the Sea. Like, they destroyed a huge amount of infrastructure. Like, they destroyed every railroad. But, like, the rules that Sherman gave his men, well, that was the whole.

[Jack]

Point of hitting Atlanta because that's where the railroad was that connected.

[Tyler]

They burned Atlanta. So they burn Atlanta deliberately. But they don't, like, kill in Atlanta. They put the people in Atlanta city on a train, and they send them to the north and not to, like, scary train ride. They just evacuate. They do destroy Atlanta. Columbia and South Carolina is burned, probably basically by accident. Sherman says he doesn't mind because it's South Carolina and they deserve it, but it is accidental. But other than that, like, they don't obliterate any towns. They don't destroy Savannah. They don't. There. So there's all these small towns in the south that have this story of how the ladies of the town, like, use their clever wiles to keep the union from destroying the town. And what this gets at is actually the greater truth, which is just they didn't really destroy any towns other than Atlanta and Columbia. And, like, he has these rules. He says, you can't destroy anyone's personal home. You can destroy storehouses. You destroy stuff relevant to the economy. But you can't destroy people's personal homes. You destroy stockpiles of food. You do not destroy food that is necessary for individuals to feed themselves. So it's very funny. Like, this is an example where people will say, this is total war. But if you dig into the details of it, it's actually a perfect example of how our values have changed. That in the 1860s, this qualified as total war, yet it's utterly incomparable to what we did in future wars or what, frankly, a lot of people want us to do now to Iran.

[Charlie Kirk]

I just. But so, Jack, help me understand. Where does this come from? Where does that kind of cruelty and darkness where it's just like we're just gonna drop a nuclear bomb on an entire population. How did we get here?

[Jack]

So I think a lot of it is. Unfortunately, a lot of it is Marvel movie thinking, a lot of it is Hollywood thinking. You get this sort of war fervor also from cable news, unfortunately. Some people just watch too much cable news and they think that, hey, all these people are evil. We have to kill them all. We have to get them out. And we were actually playing on my. On human events earlier today, just. Just, you know, sort of B roll of city scenes in Tehran. And, yeah, you know, it looks like the Middle east, and it's different from us. And you see the burkas, but you do see families and just people sort of walking around and, you know, buying food and going shopping and going to work and living their lives. And so it's. It's, you know, again, it's, you know, and. And, you know, having lived overseas and having spent time overseas in places like. Like China and others that, you know, people say, oh, well, the Chinese this, that and the other thing I said, well, you know, they're. They're just people, right? They're still just people. And even if you have your differences with the regime and you, you know, morally want things to happen, you really need to be careful when you're purposefully targeting civilian populations. And unfortunately, I think that is an unintended side effect of the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, where some people think, well, that's just what you got to do. You know, that's just what you got to do to end a war, to stop them.

[Charlie Kirk]

Just.

[Jack]

Just nuke them. Just nuke them all the way down. And to the point where Truman himself, you know, didn't. Obviously, people remember, you know, their history. Even though he had dropped the nukes on Hiroshima, Nagasaki did not elect to news use nukes on China after They, after they got involved in the Korean War and in fact basically fired MacArthur and for publicly speaking out against him, they had a huge disagreement about it. And MacArthur was saying, let's, let's nuke Beijing, let's nuke Shanghai and prevent China from going Communist and not going communist, but, you know, defeating the communists once and for all. And there's, you know, there's a, obviously a whole alternate history that could have happened had, you know, had that taken place. And so it's hard to say, but at the same time, I think there's serious moral and ethical questions here that get glossed over because when people hear about the war drums beating, there's a tendency, a very human tendency to be tribal. And in that very human tendency to be tribal, it's us versus them and all of us need to defeat all of them. And, and if you're on the other side, then, you know, you're going to get, you're going to get beaten, you're going to get killed, and that's the end. And, and to the point, you know, Charlie, in this country, even In World War II, you know, we did intern any Japanese Americans, many German Americans also faced a lot of this, by the way, a lot of German American, German and Italian Americans went and volunteered to join the Axis. So these wars are very complicated and wars get very messy. And it is, it's never occurred once in all of history that there was a war that, that went well and went exactly as the initial, you know, planners and promoters said it was going to.

[Charlie Kirk]

So, Blake, it's hard to even comprehend. I mean, are we just, is there like a older generation problem where they just haven't learned like any foreign policy lessons the last 20 years?

[Tyler]

You know, it's sad because like, we think of learning from things, but the truth is for a lot of people, they get their ideas about the world, I think largely fixed in their teenage years, their 20 something years. And then they're just sort of, they're just sort of locked in and it's difficult, it's difficult to learn new things as you age. And I think a lot, just like we see in Washington where a lot of people got in a Cold War mindset. So like, that's why they're always paranoid about Russia. And I think that's actually driving a lot of the Iran stuff. We, we had the US and Iran had far more direct conflict in the 1980s. I mean, we have the Iranian hostage crisis, we had, you know, shot down, like were planes getting shot down, things like that. And I think a lot of people wanted some sort of payoff for that. They never quite got it. So instead we've just had this infinite, semi, occasionally flaring up conflict with Iran. But people have always wanted that payoff and they never got it. And it's just coming roaring back and it will never really go away until people who have been craving that for decades either die off or get their payoff.

[Charlie Kirk]

Tyler, what do you make of the generational difference that the older that you are, the more likely it seems that you're open to dropping a nuke or boots on the ground? Talk about the age difference dynamic here.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Well, I actually think it's really interesting too. Just again, we bring in the Russia issue, which is, you know, what is the outcome if you do some kind of massive drop into Iran? What kind of outcome then? What's, what's the outcome going to look like with Turkey, your, your Turkish relationship, your Russian relationship? Obviously the conflict that's happening there? What does that, what does that do for American day to day life outside of the immense amount of life lost that we've discussed is where, I mean, we're talking about the impacts that we would have with gas and everything else. I mean, it is absolutely insane what would happen. Sorry guys, I got this like everywhere I'm going, I'm just getting like getting beeping in the background here. But you know, I think of the older generation and as they're thinking about the, everything else that we see, the activists on the ground, which are the loudest that we hear, especially within the Republican Party, they're just completely detached from what this would mean for younger people and what their day to day impact would look like right away with how they live their lives, what the cost would be because largely older people are pretty much taken care of. It's the younger people that would, that would feel the brunt of things. And on top of that, you're talking about the draft, you're talking about who would actually be sent the massive operation to backfill our military. I just don't know that there's a single person over the age of maybe 55 that is thinking about this in the same way that now the majority of our population is thinking about, and definitely Republican voters.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, so what other dynamics are we missing here, Blake or Jack on this conversation that are important that people should know about?

[Jack]

I was gonna say you do have. So we have the age that you mentioned. You have, how people get their media, how people get their news. Some people, you know, and you know, this came up with like Tucker and Ted Cruz, some people have religious differences on this, saying that, you know, some people say they, they, they look at Ted Cruz, cited Genesis and said, you know, this is why we have to do this. And Tucker asked why is that? And that sort of has ignited this massive debate online that I'm seeing as well. So, I mean there's, there's a look when you're talking about anything involving the holy Land, it's absolutely going to bring up religious beliefs and in some cases conflicting religious beliefs.

[Charlie Kirk]

Charlie Kirk here. Crime is skyrocketing. You may already own a firearm, but before you face the financial and emotional weight of pulling the trigger, consider Burna. Burna's less lethal launchers fire tear gas and kinetic rounds designed to incapacitate attackers for up to 40 minutes, giving you time to escape and call for help without deadly consequences. I use Burna. My family all has them. And now meet the new compact launcher. An amazing product. Sleek, slim and hits like a sledgehammer. But the size of a smartphone, it's perfect for concealed carry, comfortable, discreet and confidence building. It fires at 400ft per second with 41 joules per square inch of stopping power. That's enough force to halt a threat cold without the legal and moral complexities of lethal force. What I love about Burna is they're proudly American. Over 80% of their compact launcher's components are sourced in America and each unit is hand assembled in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Best of all, Burna is legal in all 50 states. No background checks, ships directly to your door, trusted by hundreds of police departments and government agencies around the world. Visit Byrna to learn more. That is by r n a.com.

[Jack]

Do.

[Charlie Kirk]

You want Blake, do we want to get into the Tucker and Ted Cruz thing?

[Tyler]

It got sent to me by people who are not even in this country who don't usually always follow.

[Jack]

What was the sense of people that sent to you? I'd say biggest thing on the entire Internet. Yeah.

[Tyler]

A ton of people saw the, you know, question about how many people live in Iran and so I also I saw people say when I watched the whole video it was more evenly matched between Tucker and Ted that Ted occasionally got Tucker's sort of back off or he got in some good blows. But what went by far the most viral. We can play it if you want was let's play clip 416.

[Unnamed Caller]

How many people living around by the way?

[Blake]

I don't know the population at all. No, I don't know the population.

[Unnamed Caller]

You don't know the population of the country you seek to topple.

[Blake]

How many people living around 92 million.

[Tyler]

Okay.

[Blake]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Caller]

How could you not know that?

[Blake]

I. I don't sit around memorizing population tables.

[Unnamed Caller]

Well, it's kind of relevant because you're calling for the overthrow of the government.

[Blake]

Why is it relevant whether it's 90 million or 80 million or 100 million, why is it.

[Unnamed Caller]

Because if you don't know anything about the country.

[Blake]

I didn't say I don't know anything about.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay.

[Unnamed Caller]

What's the ethnic mix of Iran?

[Blake]

They are Persians and predominantly Shia. Okay.

[Unnamed Caller]

You don't know anything about Iran.

[Sophie Cunningham]

So. Okay.

[Blake]

I am not the Tucker Carlson expert on Iran.

[Unnamed Caller]

You're a senator who's calling.

[Blake]

You're the one who claims anything about the country. No, you don't know anything about the country. You're the one who claims they're not trying to murder Donald Trump.

[Unnamed Caller]

You're the one. I'm not saying that.

[Blake]

Who can't figure out if it's a good idea to kill General Soleimani. And you said it was bad.

[Unnamed Caller]

I don't believe they're trying to murder Trump. Yes, I do, because you're not calling for military strikes against them in retaliation.

[Blake]

And if they really believe carrying out military strikes today. You said Israel was right with our help. I said we. Israel is leading them, but we're supporting them.

[Unnamed Caller]

Well, this. You're breaking news here because the US Government last night denied. The National Security Council spokesman, Alex Pfeiffer denied on behalf of Trump that we were acting on Israel's behalf in any offensive capacity.

[Blake]

We're not bombing them. Israel's bombing them.

[Unnamed Caller]

You just said we were.

[Blake]

We are supporting Israel.

[Unnamed Caller]

Senator, if you're saying the United States government is now. We're with Iran right now. People are listening.

[Charlie Kirk]

Blake.

[Tyler]

It's so I want to highlight for people why that question about, like, the ethnic makeup and population is so resonant is when we invaded Iraq, one of the most amazing things is apparently even before we invaded Iraq, a large number of people in the Bush administration, possibly including Bush himself, they did not know the difference between Sunni and Shia Muslims. And Iraq is like, one of the only countries where there's a large number of both. And Saddam was from the Sunni minority. The majority of Iraq is Shia. And they were kind of, you know, on the. They were the bottom rung of Iraqi society. And then the Sunnis ran stuff, and they were just unaware of this. They were unaware of that fundamental split in Iraqi society and what that would mean or how the Shia majority would have close ties with Iran because they're one of the only places that Iran has other Shia Muslims. And that ended up being so important. Besides the insurgency against US Forces in Iraq, there was also just sectarian violence. You had Sunni terrorists would blow up Shia mosques, they would target Shia holy days for attacks. And they just had no idea about that. And so that's why it's very relevant to ask that. You know, one of the reasons, one of the things I've heard said about Iran is one of the reasons they're relatively tolerant of the handful of Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians that they have in Iran is actually no one there has it worse than the tiny Sunni minority they have in Iran because they're heretics. They're not just a different faith. They are the true infidels against proper Islam. And if you're not aware of that, you just realize we could walk into this thing where you can just step on a landmine and you have no idea where any of them are buried because you don't know what you're doing.

[Charlie Kirk]

Jack, your thoughts on the thermonuclear viral conversation?

[Jack]

Well, it's, it's what one thing that struck me as, and you know, I've watched it as well, but what, what's really struck me as much as the conversation itself and a lot of these questions that I'm just going to say, you don't hear these types of questions on FOX News. These are deep questions. These are serious questions. They're not surface level questions. They're questions that, as Blake has described, really matter if you're going to get into a war or as, as as occurs, the counter insurgency after a war, like a civil war. And so the almost important, almost as important as the conversation itself is how this thing has taken on a life of its own online. This is the number one most viral thing with all of Gen Z. And that's only because, of course, Charlie's not on campus right now.

[Charlie Kirk]

But thank you.

[Jack]

It's all over TikTok. You can see this on the left, on the right, that widespread support for Tucker, widespread condemnation for Ted Cruz's position. And this is the entire, you know, 18 to 39, whatever you want to call it, demographic of millennials, Gen Z people saying that this is just remarkable, that how could there be a sitting senator from one of the most powerful Republican states in, in the country who, you know, who doesn't know these basic questions and who is citing these very shallow arguments while at the same time just being glib, just being tremendously glib. About something that could get a lot of Americans killed.

[Charlie Kirk]

All right, so let me tell you the one where I. I have not publicly commented on this. I like Tucker a lot. I like Ted a lot. They're both friends of mine. I haven't gone in the social media thing because I just think it's. Everyone's fighting right now and, like, blessed are the peacemakers. And I'm trying to, like, I don't know, figure out what the hell's going on.

[Tyler]

We will have to be a party after this.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. And I'm also just. I don't know. I think there's so. I just. I wasn't interested in that. But the one thing I will say this, though, actually. Yes, this is 429. Maybe I'm. Maybe I'm just kind of like a Bible nerd. But how do you not know it's Genesis 12. 3. 3. Like, I don't know. I think that's like, very, like, rudimentary scripture. I'm sorry. That was one where I was like, ooh, you gotta know that. And so. Okay, it's loaded. 429.

[Blake]

Growing up in Sunday school, I was taught from the Bible, those who bless Israel will be blessed, and those who curse Israel will be cursed. And from my perspective, I want to be on the blessing side of things.

[Unnamed Caller]

Of those who bless the government of Israel.

[Blake]

Those who bless Israel is what it says. It doesn't say the government of. It says the nation of Israel. So that's in the Bible. As a Christian, I believe that.

[Unnamed Caller]

Where is that?

[Blake]

I can find it to you. I don't have the. The scripture off the tip of mine. You pull out the phone and use the.

[Unnamed Caller]

It's in Genesis.

[Charlie Kirk]

But.

[Unnamed Caller]

So you're quoting a Bible phrase. You don't have context for it. You don't know where in the Bible it is. But that's like your theology. I'm confused. I'm talking about the political entity of modern Israel.

[Jack]

Yes.

[Blake]

And that is.

[Unnamed Caller]

I believe that's what God was talking about in Genesis.

[Blake]

I do. But.

[Unnamed Caller]

But that country's existed since when?

[Blake]

For thousands of years now. There was a time when it didn't exist and then was recreated just over 70.

[Unnamed Caller]

But I'm saying I think most people understand that line in Genesis to refer to the Jewish people, God's chosen people.

[Blake]

That's not what it says.

[Unnamed Caller]

Okay, Israel. But you don't even know where in the Bible it is.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right. This drove me crazy. Of all, like, you know, like, population tables for. Just. Everybody is wrong here. Okay. Like, Everybody's wrong. Okay, Israel is not mentioned in Genesis 12:3.

[Tyler]

Israel hasn't been born yet.

[Charlie Kirk]

Correct. Israel is Jacob. Okay, so that, that, that just, it wrestles with God. Correct it. The world. The word Israel is not in Genesis 12:3. However, it does say, and let me just say this, this is God's covenant with Abraham Abram before he became Abraham. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curse you, I will curse. And all the peoples of the earth will be blessed through you. So yes, eventually that does mean the Jewish people and the people of Israel. Now, Ted's theological view I'm actually somewhat sympathetic to, but he just. Ted, here's the way you should say it next time, Tucker, I don't anticipate you to agree with me theologically, so let's just talk about this geopolitically. But we in our specific camp believe that the reconstitution of the state of Israel is a fulfillment of prophecy in Ezekiel 36, that I will graft you from around the world and scatter. I'll scatter you and bring you back into a nation. But that's not the most relevant thing. That's all he had to say, right? Genesis 12:3 and Ezekiel 36 is actually a better theological argument than Genesis 12:3, because Genesis 12:3 is like, well, what is Israel? And Catholics would say, it's fine, I don't want to get into it. You know, it's the church and it's, you know, it's the, it's the Jewish people. And it's like the Ezekiel argument, for those of us that are sympathetic, is a much stronger argument. But it should have just been diffusing. Instead, Ted was almost getting, in my opinion, I have a lot of respect for Ted. He was almost like, this is what Christianity believes. Do you notice whenever I talk about it, I say this is just a theological interpretation I'm sympathetic to. That's a much better way to approach it than just saying like, this is doctrine. And so there are closed hand issues and open hand issues in Christianity. Closed hand issues are ones that if you do not believe this, you're not a Christian. Divinity of Christ, virginity of Mary, right? The resurrection of Christ, the creation of the world, the inerrancy of Scripture. And there's open hand issues, right? Which is like eschatology or what is Israel? And that's the way I wish you would have explained it instead. Here's what drove me the most crazy, is it made anybody like myself that has this kind of view that God has a plan and prophecy very well might be unfolding, seem as if we're like completely biblically illiterate. Does that make sense?

[Tyler]

And it goes into, I mean, I have to run into this all the time where I've encountered people in the US and definitely abroad, this is a very common belief abroad that the only reason conservatives in the US are sympathetic to Israel is they'll just be like, oh, it's just because, like they think it will bring about the end of the world to build the Third Temple or they just, they think that the Bible requires them to just do whatever Israel tells them to do. And like there are a few people who hold to that view, but like, broadly speaking, no, that's not the reason we do this. People who support Israel, including pretty aggressively, do it because they think it is good for the United States or represents good values, that Israel is civilization, Israel is western and they're in conflict with this, you know, a barbaric country. And that's, that's the best argument for.

[Charlie Kirk]

I totally agree. And so that, My whole point is that if you are going to introduce scripture into a geopolitical argument, you better know it like really well, right? And it should be closed hand Christianity issues, right? So for example, if all of a sudden Tucker and Ted were debating whether or not like Bethlehem should be bombed, okay, a closed hand issue is like, don't bomb it because Jesus was born there, right? Like, that's a good reason to introduce theology into geopolitics right now if you're gonna do that, which again, Jack Hibbs would be like super equipped to do this friend of mine, he's like, not super well, but it's just kind of what it. Unfortunately what it did is it played into a stereotype that like they're using Christianity and they don't even know like the fundamental elemental scripture. So, and I like Ted a lot and I think actually Ted made some really good points later in the argument, later in the whole kind of dialogue that I think were missed in some of the online back and forth. The world is waking up to the power of gold. National banks are scrambling to secure it. According to the World Gold Council, central banks added 1,000 tons of gold in 2024, the third straight year of net gold buying. They understand what many investors don't. Gold is real money. Unlike paper currency, gold's value doesn't disappear with inflation, reckless government spending or market crashes. Now, noble gold investments makes it easy for you to claim your share. As our new administration works to reverse the economic chaos of the past market Swings are inevitable. When uncertainty rises, you need something solid, something to keep you on the path to financial freedom. Gold can be that foundation. And right now, when you make a qualified investment, Noble Gold will send you a free 10th ounce of a cold coin. Visit noblegoldinvestments.com that's noblegoldinvestments.com the world is turning to gold. Shouldn't you be looking into doing that, too? Jack, what is, would you say now I have a lot of pastors that I'm trying to tell like, would you say Gen Z's view of Israel, has it improved or gotten worse because of this interview?

[Jack]

Well, there's sort of the, you know, there's a multi layered question there because there's Gen Z's view of Israel has already been quite negative. And that's not because of this interview. That's particularly because of the images that they see coming out of Gaza every day on TikTok that are just going up and down all over the place. You know, here's this bombing, here's this, that bombing, another hospital, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm not going to get into the efficacy of that or, you know, whether, whether or not that's, that's true or all the rest of it. You're recycling old footage. I'm just saying this is Gen Z's general view. And so it's already preset to be quite negative. Then they see Israel launching this attack on Iran one week ago, give or take, I think a week and a day ago, and saying, well, here, here's Netanyahu again taking off another bomb, another, picking another fight, even when he hasn't finished his first fight because of political issues at home. And then this interview comes around on top of it to say, well, here's, here's a politician who, an American politician who's going to explain why all of this US Money, billions of dollars, is going to go and support a far another foreign war rather than do anything to clean up our lot at home, which is of course, what President Trump ran on. And then they see Ted Cruz and he's making these arguments. And I say, Charlie, it's confusing for someone who doesn't know all of the backstory or someone who hasn't read the Bible or someone who, you know, it's like, what's the citation? Can you even explain what you're talking about? And you know, it's, it's just not there. It's just not there. So, no, I think if you're someone.

[Charlie Kirk]

Who'S no I could do, like, I.

[Jack]

Just want to say, like, it's not going the way you want.

[Charlie Kirk]

Just, just to be clear, like, if you really know the theology, like I do pretty well, but not as well as like a Jack Hibbs, you can make that argument, but if you don't know it, don't do that argument. Like, that's, that, that's basically like, because it's just. You kind of get found out and exposed. And it just like, because his. Here's the reason he was like, well, as a Christian in Sunday school, I was told that we must do this. Like, this is a guiding principle. And then Tucker's like, okay, tell me why. Like, what's the scripture? Because some people disagree. Yeah, that makes sense. Like, it. If you're going to do that, you have to know it with incredible specificity.

[Jack]

And it makes sense, not just from a. Because we're not just talking about theological. Right. We're talking about effective communication. And so in effective communication, and if you're trying to communicate an idea to someone, then you really need to know it inside out because that person is going to ask you questions about it and perhaps challenge you on your view. And so if you're going to use effective communication, you have to think, okay, where is that person at? I'm trying to talk to them. I'm trying to communicate my view to them. So you have to know your view. You have to know what you're trying to say, and that's on you as a communicator. And I mean this in, in the sense of, you know, Charlie, you and I, we, we do this every day. You know, you're communicating. So effective communication always means you have to be able to explain yourself. And if you don't, then you are going to run the risk of what I think happened here is making yourself and whoever side you are taking look really bad.

[Charlie Kirk]

So just to kind of put a cap. So is there any. Let me just play one more piece of tape here from this debate I actually enjoyed. I, I encourage everyone, if you have an opinion on the Tucker Ted exchange, listen to the entire thing. Because I really believe that Ted actually made some really good points at times. I think some of the clips put him in a bad light. And you, honestly, as US Senator, you should know the population, the top three. Like, you should know. I'm sorry, you should know that. Like, there's no excusing it. But Ted is not dumb. He's a high IQ person. Let's play cut 417, please.

[Unnamed Caller]

Does Mossad share All of its intelligence with us?

[Blake]

Oh, probably not, but they share a lot. We don't share all of our intelligence with them, but we share a lot. It's a close alliance.

[Unnamed Caller]

Do they spy domestically in the United States?

[Blake]

Oh, they probably do, and we do as well. And friends and allies spy on each other. And I assume. I assume all of our allies spy on us.

[Unnamed Caller]

That's okay with you.

[Blake]

You know what? One of the things about being a conservative is that you're not naive and utopian. You don't think humans are. All part of the reason socialism doesn't work is the mantra from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. Doesn't work. As a conservative, I assume people act in their rational self interest.

[Unnamed Caller]

It's conservative to pay people to spy on you.

[Blake]

It's conservative to recognize that human beings act in their own self interest. And every one of our friends spies on us. And I'm not.

[Unnamed Caller]

Do you like it? That's my question. I'm not asking whether they have motive to do it. Of course they do. I understand that. And I. And by the way, I'm not mad at them. You're an American lawmaker, so I just want to know.

[Jack]

Hold on.

[Unnamed Caller]

I want to know your attitude. You said that your guiding principle, in fact, the only principle, the only criterion.

[Blake]

I said guiding the overwhelming. I wouldn't say only.

[Unnamed Caller]

Is it in America's interest. Is it in America's interest for Israel to spy on us, including on the President?

[Blake]

It is in America's interest to be closely allied with Israel because we get huge benefits for it. And you want to. Want to see the clearance.

[Unnamed Caller]

But I just want to stop on the spine for a second that it takes place, as, you know, including on the President of the United States and several precedents. And I just want to know if that's okay and why is it okay? Wouldn't an American lawmaker say to a client state, you're not allowed to spy on us? I'm sorry, I know why you want to. I'm not mad at you. But you're not allowed to.

[Charlie Kirk]

Sure.

[Unnamed Caller]

And I don't care for it. I don't want to be spied on by you. Is that it's kind of weird not to say that, but you don't seem able to say that.

[Charlie Kirk]

So, Blake, for the audience that's listening to this for the first time, what is the cultural impact of such an interview like this right now?

[Tyler]

It really can set the tone of things and it's really important. Like I said, it's an interview, it was like over an hour long. It's quite long, sustained interview that hits on a lot of topics. But the nature of media these days is the vast majority of people. 99% of people who see anything from this interview will probably see those two clips. They'll see the Mossad spying clip and they'll see the Bible clip that we saw or the population clip. So they'll see a handful of these things. And as we said, I think both of us agree Cruz did better in the full interview. But it's a handful of really interested people who are seeing the full interview. And what can really set the cultural zeitgeist is the stuff that goes viral with other people. And that question about population that I got sent by people in other countries.

[Charlie Kirk]

What were they saying?

[Tyler]

They were just, they were just amazed by it. I think the impression if you are coming in very superficially is wow, like there are people in the US who want to do regime change in Iran or intervention in Iran and they don't know that much about Iran. And it fits into a script we have because we know the US has gone in without enough information into Iraq, into Libya. It fits a mental image that people already have in their head. And that makes it more powerful, I think. And it has a great ability to set the tone for what the debate is right now. So I would not be surprised if so whatever ultimate decision we reach if that meaningfully lowered the odds that we go into Iran. Because it's going to shift how people are talking about it.

[Charlie Kirk]

Absolutely. Why refi.com, private student loan debt in America totals about $300 billion. Why refi has been an amazing partner of us and it's only getting started. They were a huge supporter of our Young Women's Leadership Summit. Game changer. Largest ever. Go to yrefi.com that is yrefy.com youm don't have to ignore that mountain of student loan statements on your kitchen table anymore. Yrefi offers a 3 minute rate check without any credit impact. Go to yrefi.com let's face it, if you have distressed or defaulted private student loans, nobody is coming to bail you out and bankruptcy is not an option. But you could take charge of your situation by contacting yrefi. Go to yrefi.com that is yrefy.com that is yrefi.com Many clients are not able to even make the first monthly payment on their private student loans when they contact yrefi. Go to yrefi.com again they don't care what your credit score is. You got to check it out right [e-mail] Yrefi is not a debt settlement company and they work with each borrower individually, tailoring each loan. Each borrower's specific situation. You will not be calling a faceless call center. Go to yrefi.com that is yrefy.com do we want to do WNBA?

[Tyler]

We could do that. We. We've had a debate now that YWLS is over. We've been having a debate about. There's a debate about chores that we wanted to have.

[Charlie Kirk]

Chores.

[Tyler]

Ch. Men and women, like household roles. We could. We could do that one or we could do that another time.

[Charlie Kirk]

I think WNBA is pretty hot.

[Tyler]

WNBA is. Is. I'm not sure if I'd ever say the WNBA is hot, Charlie.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's very popular. Well, I don't. I'm just saying right now, like, it's. This is the most I've ever seen because now there's two WNBA players people care about.

[Jack]

But the reason that it's kicking off is not because of the basketball. It's because of. It's because of like the WWF stuff that's going on.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, yeah, no, ww It's. It's pure ufc. So Caitlin Clark, of course, got targeted again. We all know why she's being targeted. It's not a huge mystery. And like a ridiculous flagrant foul. They throw her to the ground. Do we have a clip of the flagrant foul? And then like a couple like, like a minute and a half later, a girl that we've never heard of before, Sophie Cunningham, comes out and just like, throws the other team to the ground and just like starts a New York Pistons style brawl. Remember the brawl?

[Tyler]

Yeah, the Malice at the Palace.

[Charlie Kirk]

I saw the young people might not remember this. Oh, my goodness. The brawl was one of my greatest childhood memories. I was walking into a restaurant called, called Denna Joe's. It was right near my house. And they had these TVs, old TVs, and the game was on and all of a sudden I was like, oh, the fight's breaking up. And like it was like a 15 minute brawl.

[Tyler]

I think they had to end the game or.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, no, they did. And do you remember, like, it was like Rasheed Wallace or somebody that like stormed in?

[Tyler]

It was. It was Ron Artest, wasn't it?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tyler]

It later became Meta World Peace.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, yeah, Meta. And he went into the crowd. He went into the crowd and like he was like laying down or something. And then someone threw a water bottle at him. Like, Ron Artest just went and fought random civilians at the. At the Palace.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

Of Auburn Hills.

[Tyler]

Game was called with 46 seconds left in the fourth quarter.

[Charlie Kirk]

So, anyway, so here's the new. Here's Caitlin Clark with her bodyguard, Sophie Cunningham. The wnba, these other girls in the league, they are so mad at Caitlin. So here's Caitlyn Clark. She's targeting. Then they just throw her to the ground after the whistles blown, like, what is that? And so. So then Sophie Cunningham says, okay, she just takes down this woman, and then look, then she just stay, oh, this. And it's just literally like, we're not gonna put up with this. And of course she gets ejected. She got fined $400.

[Tyler]

That's like 40% of.

[Charlie Kirk]

I know. I mean, in NFL, they're like a $200,000 fine.

[Tyler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

And so look, this is. This is Sophie Cunningham. She just goes full. Ron, Our test on her, like, for female basketball, that's, like, a very violent move. And so she's gone.

[Tyler]

Men's basketball, that's pretty violent.

[Charlie Kirk]

She's gone, like, super viral. Now, Sophie Cunningham, I mean, look, I'll be honest. Like, Caitlin Clark is growing on me because we know why this is happening, obviously. I mean, they're mad that, like, a Midwestern white girl who's very wholesome and is straight and has a boyfriend has become, like, the face of the wnba and like, nobody cared before, but now there's two faces of wnba. Let's put up the picture here in the thought crime chat of Caitlin Clark and her bodyguard, Sophie Cunningham. There it is. So, Tyler, people are talking about the wnba. It's. It's going up like a rocket ship, Charlie.

[Sophie Cunningham]

It all happens in Indiana. You've got the Pacers now going to game seven. You had the Ron Artest Malice in the Palace. You have Sophie Cunningham, who used to play for the Mercury. I just. The only thing I'm regretting. I wish this was the actual Mercury. So we had a reason to go to Mercury games because it is so impossible to watch WNBA games with the amount of lesbian vibes that are in there. But this may be the straightest thing to ever happen in a WNBA game. We may have now a reason to go watch the wnba, and I actually think they should insert new rules.

[Tyler]

No, no, no, no. We're not. That's not.

[Sophie Cunningham]

This may be straighter than Lord of the Rings. This may be.

[Tyler]

Charlie. Indiana Fever at Phoenix Mercury, July 30th.

[Charlie Kirk]

This may be.

[Sophie Cunningham]

That may Be straight night. That might be straight night for. For Phoenix fans is to show up support, you know, you know, females fighting, you know, on the court. They should make this a rule they shall allow fighting like the NHL. I think this would increase sales immediately. I don't know.

[Tyler]

Oh, wait, hold on. That one's in Indiana. No, the August 7th. Thursday, August 7th, 10:00pm Eastern Indiana fever at Phoenix Mercury.

[Jack]

So. So wait, wait.

[Tyler]

Charlie, do a broadcast.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Do you think we should make that turning point night at the. At the PHX Stadium?

[Charlie Kirk]

We have to have like. We have to like a Protect Caitlin like, sign.

[Jack]

Charlie, are you like, pushing that? They want, you know, that they finally found a way to get people interested. So there's people like, at like actually, you know, WWF style back there saying, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, like kind of goading this. This type of stuff on.

[Sophie Cunningham]

We should have nil for straight white females in the wnba because that's the only way that you're going to get men interested. You could actually triple their salary just with like nil, you know, for. For straight white females that are in the WNBA overnight. They could be the most predominant, you know, player within the NBA. Wnba. And that's. That's saying something for where we're at. So I'm advocating for it. Conservatives should start funding, you know, patches and things like that on WNBA jerseys. It could be incredible.

[Charlie Kirk]

I. I think. I mean, look, the tickets would be like $3 a piece. Blake. We could do a thought crime episode live from the wnba.

[Tyler]

We could just like, probably take a large portion of the stadium because I can't. These games sell out. I don't think maybe when.

[Sophie Cunningham]

No, Blake, no, no. If we showed up, we would. We would almost double the amount of people who go to W, by the way.

[Charlie Kirk]

We would come up with Protect Caitlin shirts.

[Tyler]

Okay, Stan.

[Charlie Kirk]

With big signs that say Protect Caitlin. I mean, look, we know why she's being targeted, obviously, okay? And so Fever games do sell out regularly. They say. But I don't know in. But like people. But do you understand how mad the home teams get because, like, these away games are super popular. Because everyone wants to just come see Caitlin Clark. Like, we've been doing this for 10. No one cares about you, actually. So it's pretty amazing.

[Tyler]

You wonder how many people in Phoenix, like, learned that we have a WNBA team because, like, Caitlin Clark came to play.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, I didn't know we had a WNBA team. It's called the Mercury.

[Tyler]

Phoenix Mercury.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, it's pretty amazing.

[Tyler]

There's some. I think the Miami team is the sun which obviously is.

[Charlie Kirk]

We went through all the names last week.

[Tyler]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sophie Cunningham]

The. The Mercury games have been so poorly attended forever. And if you show up there as a male, you. You get spit on. They just don't. They don't like it. They don't like when men show up. There's a lot of women who look like men who show up. There's not a lot of. Not a lot of actual men.

[Charlie Kirk]

Telling you we would make big news. I'm just telling you right now, we would make very big news.

[Sophie Cunningham]

I think we should do it. I think this would be incredible, man.

[Tyler]

The w. The. The Atlanta Dream, one of the WNBA teams. They play in a stadium with a capacity of 3200 people.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yep. There's. I mean, a lot of people, like, are now pushing for Caitlin Clark to leave the WNBA because, like, they're. They're trying to basically push her out is what they're trying to do.

[Tyler]

They have the conceit that she could play in the regular NBA. That would be pretty funny.

[Charlie Kirk]

I don't know where she would go, but, I mean, nor do I think she should. I mean, she's great. I mean, she's. Honestly, like. I have respect that. Like, everyone's targeting her. And she. I mean, she did say that stupid thing about, like, white privilege or whatever, but, I mean, look, she's a. She's a norm adjusting, like, table stakes. I know that's like, table stakes, but, like, I mean, they're really going after her. And now, hey, more women are rising up. So this is 437. This is the full beef. This is. That's. That's the. That's the bodyguard. Let's go to 437. This is. Oh, yeah, this is Sophie Cunningham just body slamming this girl and starting a fight. It always, like, makes me laugh. When women fight. They really don't know how to fight. They're just.

[Sophie Cunningham]

It's a lot of hair pulling.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot.

[Jack]

Yeah, there's a reason for that.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Arms. A lot of arms. Teeth and fingernails. There's a lot of. It's like a whirlwind kind of gets.

[Jack]

Into what we were saying before about. About. About just war theory.

[Charlie Kirk]

She's completely remaking women's basketball as we know it. It's pretty amazing. All right, last thought. There's. There's Sophie Cunningham. And now, by the way, they're gonna go after her too, because she's getting like, women can't stand the attention thing. It's gonna drive them crazy. So. All right. Final thoughts, guys. Blake.

[Tyler]

Man, I kind of want to see Charlie go to a WNBA game. I want to see Charlie get really into it. Like, he go, like, he's initially going just to do the support Caitlyn thing, and then he kind of. He starts watching the game and, like, the wheels start turning. He gets into the strategy of it.

[Charlie Kirk]

And then I bring my daughter.

[Tyler]

Like, we'll start. We'll start coming into the office and be like, charlie, we've got, like, breaking news. The president is bombing or. And he'll be like, shut up. Shut up. And he'll be on his phone and he'll be. He'll be watching a stream, not. Not even of the Fever. He'll be watching, like a dumpster game between, like, the two worst teams in the league. They're out of the playoffs. But he's just. He's riveted to it. He'll start babbling to us about the stats of these players, and he'll be like this rebounder who plays for the Miami sun that she's. She's better than, like, Dennis Rodman. And, like, he's watching the women's basketball World cup or whatever they have. I want. I think we could see Charlie. Like, he could go full. The madness could consume him.

[Charlie Kirk]

I think so. So, Tyler, this is a good idea. So I'm going to go to. We're going to go to WNBA game together. I'm gonna wear the Caitlin Clark jersey with the MAGA hat.

[Jack]

Yep.

[Sophie Cunningham]

And then we're gonna hand out Let Sophie fight shirts. We're gonna shoot that. We actually have at Turning Point. We actually have big T shirt guns. What we should do is we should bring the big. We have the big rotary thing. You know what I'm talking about, Charlie, that's just sitting in the warehouse. We should shoot those off.

[Charlie Kirk]

If they let us.

[Sophie Cunningham]

I bet we could sneak it in. Yeah, no, we'll sneak it in. Well, pretend like we're. We'll have. We'll hire two very short haircut women. Just roll it in through the back door.

[Charlie Kirk]

You'll never see so many Subarus than at a WNBA game. Jack, final thoughts?

[Jack]

Sorry. He got me on the Subaru. My dad has a Subaru and we're constantly blowing him up about it. No, no, this is. This is great. And no, it gets into. You know, Charlie, you had a. You had a whole thing this week about going to college for your. And I think all of this, even the fighting and the rest of it gets into this question about gender roles in our society and what we're pushing people towards.

[Charlie Kirk]

Very good. God bless you guys. Till next week, keep committing thought crimes. Trust President Trump. He's doing a great job. See you guys next week. Thanks so much for listening everybody. Email us. As always, freedomarliekirk.com thanks so much for listening and God bless.

[Tyler]

For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.