Tucker Carlson Remembers the Faith of Charlie Kirk

Summary

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The Charlie Kirk Show

Episode: Tucker Carlson Remembers the Faith of Charlie Kirk
Date: September 19, 2025
Host: Tucker Carlson (guest hosting for Charlie Kirk)
Guests/Co-Hosts: Andrew, Blake Neff, Frank Turek

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Episode Overview

This special episode of The Charlie Kirk Show, guest-hosted by Tucker Carlson after the death of Charlie Kirk, serves as a tribute to Charlie's enduring faith in Jesus Christ and his life-long Christian mission. Tucker, alongside longtime colleagues and friends Andrew, Blake Neff, and Frank Turek, reflects on Charlie’s spiritual convictions, personal discipline, unyielding pursuit of truth, and the personal and cultural impact he leaves behind. The conversation is anchored around faith, the fight against evil, authentic Christian witness, and the real essence of Charlie’s legacy—his unapologetic Christianity and drive for national revival.

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Main Themes, Structure & Highlights

1. Remembering Charlie Kirk: A Life Defined by Faith

Timestamps: 00:00–04:18

• Tucker Carlson sets the tone, distancing the tribute from party politics and focusing instead on the spiritual character that defined Charlie:

  "Who was Charlie fundamentally? He was a Christian man, and Jesus was the center of his life. ... His life was about following Jesus, period." — Tucker Carlson [00:38]

• Charlie's authenticity as a Christian, not just in public rhetoric but in private motivation, surprises even seasoned observers:

  "Some of the people whose job it is to talk about Jesus are not, you know, as credible and believable ... as I think Charlie was. He really meant it." — Tucker Carlson [02:57]

2. Mission and Legacy: The Modern Day 'Prophet'

Timestamps: 04:18–06:22

• Andrew describes Charlie as a “prophet,” likening him to biblical figures who call nations to repentance amidst hostility:

  "He was like a biblical prophet that would go into a nation and call it to repent. ... They mocked him ... just like the biblical prophets. They wanted to stone him. And ultimately they killed him." — Andrew [04:18]

• The “campus tours” were not just political events, but akin to “tent revivals”:

  "We called them campus tours. They were tent revivals." — Andrew [05:38]

3. Charlie’s Relentless Drive and Moral Discipline

Timestamps: 06:22–08:49

• Blake and Tucker note Charlie’s "highest agency": He felt a God-given mission, never wasted a minute, and approached even casual settings with evangelistic purpose:

  "He was the highest agency person I had ever met in my life." — Blake Neff [06:52] "He felt God had a plan for him, that he was on a mission." — Tucker Carlson [03:40]

• Even when traveling to places resistant to Christianity (e.g., Japan), Charlie looked for ways to share his faith:

  "...he was saying, look, guys, I want you to save your country, but in the end, you're going to have to believe in something transcendent for that to work." — Blake Neff [07:58]

4. International Impact, Revival, and Humility

Timestamps: 08:49–14:16

• The group reflects on Charlie’s welcome in Korea—“prayer warriors”—as a sign of a global revival, with Charlie as a spark for renewed American faith.

  “God is unleashing a new revival on this country. And Charlie is the spark that is igniting it.” — Andrew [11:10]

• Discussions of denominational backgrounds (Catholic/Protestant/Orthodox) lead to affirming Christian unity over doctrinal differences.

  “Anyone who focuses on Jesus is my brother. That's how I feel.” — Tucker Carlson [13:43]

• Charlie’s humility and refusal to lie—recapped in small moments, such as private texts—testify to his integrity:

  "We don't lie. ... We here on the show in this turn in Turning Point. We don't lie." — Charlie, recounted by Andrew [18:11]

5. Public Courage, Forgiveness, and Charlie's Support of “Canceled” Colleagues

Timestamps: 22:39–37:12

• Tucker tells the story of how Charlie hired and publicly stood by Blake Neff after a “cancel culture” incident:

  “Not only does Charlie hire Blake, he puts Blake on the air, as if to say, I know this man. He is a good man. You will judge me for doing this. I'm doing it anyway because it's the right thing to do." — Tucker Carlson [26:24]

• Emphasizes how rare this kind of “actual courage” is, especially in political media circles:

  “Nobody does that. Everyone's like, 'oh, I'm for free speech or whatever, until it hurts me.' At which point, like, sorry, pal, good luck. But Charlie pivoted against that in a way that exposed him and his group ... and he did it anyway.” — Tucker Carlson [27:41] “If people do that, who are they? I live in this world ... and they don't do that. ... No one will do that.” — Tucker Carlson [36:19]

6. Charlie’s Authenticity and Influence on Those Around Him

Timestamps: 37:12–43:01

• Recurring affirmation that Charlie was “for real,” not just another public figure “playacting” at Christian devotion:

  “Everyone wanted answered was, is this guy for real? ... And I would always say, amazingly, it's 100% real. It's totally real.” — Tucker Carlson [24:34]

• Charlie’s transparent willingness to admit mistakes, change his mind, and his deeply rooted belief that only Christianity enables such honesty about oneself:

  “In our religion, at its core is the fact that God can change people. And so you don't need to be brittle and afraid about admitting that ... Charlie was so much like that.” — Tucker Carlson [16:26]

• Willingness to hold minority positions, even unpopular ones (e.g., marijuana, abortion), as a function of conviction rather than trend.

7. Poetry, Virtue, and the Nature of Triumph

Timestamps: 47:09–50:52

• The poem “If—” by Rudyard Kipling is recited as a thematic touchstone for Charlie’s character—ability to handle success and disaster, honesty, and virtue.

  "If you can meet with triumph and disaster/And treat those two imposters just the same..." — Kipling, recited at [48:07]

• Winning, not losing, seen as the greater “trap” for spiritual and personal downfall:

  “Winning is the trap. That's where men destroy themselves. ... Surviving triumph is the real trick. And so few can do it. And he could.” — Tucker Carlson [50:32]

8. Christian Civilization and the Intrinsic Value of Every Person

Timestamps: 54:40–57:57

• Frank Turek asserts Christianity as the only worldview that grounds universal human dignity and moral worth.

  “The only worldview that agrees with what Tucker just said is Christianity ... There's no way to ground these moral values and the moral worth that every individual has [except] Christianity.” — Frank Turek [55:06]

• Tucker agrees, affirming that Western civilization’s foundation is uniquely, indivisibly Christian.

9. Charlie's Willingness to Face Evil for a Higher Purpose

Timestamps: 59:40–68:42

• Thorough discussion of the real presence of evil in modern life, how it led many (including Tucker) to believe in God, and Charlie’s readiness to give “the last measure of his effort and his life” for his calling.

  “Charlie was willing to give the very last measure of his effort and his life. He really was. And he said it multiple times.” — Andrew [65:20]

• Emphasis on responding to tragedy with prayer, faith, and the assurance that God redeems suffering for good.

10. Charlie’s Marriage and Relationship with Erica Kirk

Timestamps: 77:40–86:23

• Intimate anecdotes about Charlie and Erica’s relationship—mutual devotion, teamwork on a faith mission, and transparency:

  “We don't want to have to be accountable to God when this life passes and he asks, why did you not trust in me and not fight evil? Because we as Christians are called to fight evil.” — Erica Kirk [92:48]

• Erica is described as more "conservative" than Charlie, but also as his spiritual equal and confidant:

  "That chick is a star. I mean, she was just like, no, this is what's true. ... Tough is not exactly the right word ... but oh, man. Oh, my gosh. Unwavering." — Tucker Carlson [78:03]

• Erica’s preparedness for leadership and her deep knowledge of Charlie’s work and mission underscored as pivotal for Turning Point’s future.

11. Charlie's Role in Political and Faith Leadership

Timestamps: 86:23–92:03

• Charlie’s behind-the-scenes statesmanship, fostering coalition, fighting for truth, and shaping the next generation of conservative and Christian leaders, e.g., his pivotal endorsement of J.D. Vance and relationship with Donald Trump.

  “He was just a towering white pine man. He was just not—it didn't matter how hard you hit him. Just wasn't moving.” — Tucker Carlson [96:48]

12. Final Reflections: Jesus First, Always

Timestamps: 94:47–97:54

• Both Tucker and Andrew close by reiterating the point of the episode and Charlie’s life: following Jesus, not merely political or organizational achievements.

  “The point of Charlie's life was following Jesus. I just want to say that again, as someone who knew him well, I think the point of his life was following Jesus.” — Tucker Carlson [88:35] “I'm so glad that we could take some time to talk about Jesus, not politics, because that's the whole point.” — Tucker Carlson [97:24]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Charlie’s authenticity:

  "There's really no one in public life who talked about Jesus more than Charlie Kirk." — Tucker Carlson [02:57] “He loved talking about [faith] in places where it was, you know, arguably pointless.” — Blake Neff [07:04]

• On courage and public witness:

  "He is the only person who ever lost weight eating junk food." (Levity from Tucker in support of Blake Neff) [26:24]
  "That's what actual courage is—standing up for what is true in the service of other people." — Tucker Carlson [36:32]

• On spiritual unity:

  “Anyone who focuses on Jesus is my brother.” — Tucker Carlson [13:43]

• On Charlie's mission:

  "My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth." — Erica Kirk [93:22]

• On surviving triumph:

  “Surviving triumph is the real trick. And so few can do it. And he could.” — Tucker Carlson [50:39]

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | | --------- | ------- | | 00:00–06:22 | Setting the spiritual theme; Charlie as prophet/evangelist | | 07:41–08:49 | Charlie's insistence on sharing faith internationally | | 18:11 | Charlie’s private commitment to honesty, moral clarity for the show/team | | 22:39–27:41 | Courageous support of Blake Neff post-cancel incident | | 47:55 | Kipling’s “If—” poem recitation (moral virtues ascribed to Charlie) | | 55:06–56:36 | Christianity as the sole foundation for universal dignity, Frank Turek’s analysis | | 68:42 | Frank Turek: The meaning of Jesus’s sacrifice, good vs. evil | | 77:40–81:44 | Reflections on Charlie's marriage and Erica's influence | | 92:48–93:22 | Erica and Charlie’s shared spiritual mission | | 97:24 | Final affirmation: Jesus, not politics, at the heart of Charlie’s legacy |

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Final Section: Charlie Kirk’s Enduring Example

As the episode closes, the group emphasizes Charlie’s legacy not in terms of political accomplishment or popularity, but as an unwavering, public, and contagious dedication to Christ—a model marked by courage, humility, and integrity. The hope is that, inspired by his life and death, a new wave of faith and revival will sweep the country and beyond.

“I just want to say that again, as someone who knew him well, I think the point of his life was following Jesus. So I really want to help be helpful to that mission and not get distracted with the other stuff.”—Tucker Carlson [88:35]

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This summary captures the key insights and emotional essence of a deeply personal and faith-driven tribute episode, documenting Charlie Kirk’s influence as a Christian leader, his authentic living, and the spiritual legacy he leaves for colleagues and listeners alike.

Transcript

[Tucker Carlson]

Satan. Sam Foreign. I'm honored to be sitting in to host the Charlie Kirk show today. I was. I flew in from the east coast last night and was thinking about what to do today for two hours. And there's all this very ugly drama swirling around the Republican Party, the right. The memory of Charlie Kirk. And I just thought. And I've got, of course, strong opinions. I have strong opinions about everything and I've expressed them, but I thought, I really need a break from that. And I don't think that any of it reflects who Charlie was fundamentally. Who was Charlie fundamentally? He was a Christian man and Jesus was the center of his life. That was obvious to anyone who knew him, emerged in conversation immediately when you talk to him. That's just a fact about Charlie. His life was about following Jesus, period. And so I think the best way to explain who he was is to spend the next two hours talking about Jesus and Charlie's relationship with him. And so I'm going to be really happy to do that. This will be the happiest conversation about Charlie Kirk, I hope, all week. And so, as I said, I'm hosting, but I have no idea how the show works. I literally don't know, though. I've. I've done it. But luckily Andrew and Blake are here, who I know very well. I've actually worked with Blake for years in another life. We're both grateful to be gone from that, but Andrew is really going to be like running in and out.

[Andrew]

We're just gonna. We're just gonna have fun today.

[Tucker Carlson]

Good. Well, I. With you in charge of the details, I know that that will happen. Correct. Blake, it's wonderful to see. We talked on the phone the other day. I've been thinking about you every single day. So I hope you're holding up and I'm grateful that you're here. So, yeah, I want to talk about Charlie's relationship with. With Jesus. And I'm amazed going, I have a whole list of thoughts or sound bites here. I asked for Charlie talking about God in public, and I'm just kind of amazed what came back.

[Andrew]

I mean, they're really a deluge.

[Tucker Carlson]

It was unbelievable because there's really no one in public life who talked about Jesus more than Charlie Kirk. And I'll just. Now I'm revealing one of my ugly biases. But some of the people whose job it is to talk about Jesus are not, you know, I don't think as credible and believable. I'm just being honest as I think Charlie was. He really meant it. He wasn't being paid to say it. I think everything that he did, everything that he thought, the way he lived were all informed by his love of Jesus. And I don't think I'm overstating. And I said this to him recently when he was at my house in Maine. I really. You remind me of Paul. Like, you never stop. I stop. I like to. I like to go fishing. I like to go bird hunting, like to hang out on Saturday morning in bed with my wife and, like, you know, BS with my wife and all this stuff. But Charlie just did not allow himself any of that. He was so driven. And you can see it now maybe as part of a larger plan where he never wasted a minute. He. He forced himself to. To get on the airplane and to do things that were really, really hard in a way that I've never done. I'll just admit it. And I think that was because he felt God had a plan for him, that he was on a mission. It wasn't just about getting somebody elected. It was about something bigger than that. Am I. Well, just ask you first, Andrew and then Blake. Do you think that's. I'm reading too much into it, or do you think that's right?

[Andrew]

No, I totally agree. And I've had wave after wave after of revelation of what we were actually doing. You know, I was so in the weeds. We were so in the weeds that it was impossible to fully understand even what we were doing. But I. You know, I'm. I. And I. Charlie and I bonded at the very earliest days because we were both, like, really strong Christians, and that was such a central part of who we were. But we didn't. We, you know, we didn't talk about it all the time publicly, but as the years went on, we both knew that we had each other in that way. And there's two tweets that I've posted. I have realized in the days hence that he was a prophet, not a fortune teller like people think of prophecy. He was like a biblical prophet that would go into a nation and call it to repent. That's what he was doing. He was going to these campuses, and he was going on stage, and he was going on this show and the podcast, and he was calling a nation to repent. He went to London and he called England to repent at Cambridge and Oxford. And they. They hurled insults at him. They mocked him, they jeered him, just like the biblical prophets. They wanted to stone him. And ultimately they killed him. And that is what Jesus said. He said, what did they do to the prophets. They killed him. And now the other revelation.

[Tucker Carlson]

You're making me emotional again, because I know that what you're saying is true.

[Andrew]

And the other revelation is specifically about these campus tours. We called them campus tours. They were tent revivals.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Andrew]

Complete with the tent tucker.

[Tucker Carlson]

I don't know why. I didn't really see.

[Andrew]

I didn't either.

[Tucker Carlson]

As it was.

[Blake Neff]

You say that, and I just like to envision, like, George Whitfield, like, being, you know, he's like, jesus was sent as a savior and must be accepted to be saved. Prove me wrong.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I know, but it's so clear to me now. It's so clear.

[Tucker Carlson]

And me, too. I don't know. It's. Yeah. I don't know how I missed that. I don't know why. I thought it was, like, political organizing or something, which on one level it was, but that's not. Well, you guys were there all the whole time. I mean, it was more than that.

[Blake Neff]

It was. It was. And it really, knowing him over the past almost three years, that was what I would always tell people who would ask about Charlie. And it's. It's so funny where, like, they'd always just open, like, is Charlie smart? And I'd be like, yes, but that's kind of besides the point. Like, the amazing thing with him is not his IQ or like, how much. How many, like, facts he can know or something. What was amazing with him was his drive. The way I would say it, he's like. He was the highest agency person I had ever met in my life.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Blake Neff]

He thought, if there is something I don't like, I have the power as an individual to change the world about that, or at least if I don't take action, I have no excuse to complain about it. And he brought that to politics and organization, of course, but he especially brought it to the faith question. And he always, always wanted to talk about it. He loved talking about it in private. He loved talking about it in places where it was, you know, arguably pointless. The last speech he kind of gave in public was, we were in Japan, And Japan is 1% Christian. Maybe we are speaking to a party there that's, you know. You know, we're aligned with them because they're anti immigration, they don't like globalism. You know, we have. We were talking to them about all that stuff. He was like, yo, you should increase your birth rate. Don't rely on immigrants and all that.

[Tucker Carlson]

But Japan is famously resistant to Christianity.

[Blake Neff]

Yes, yes, but. And I told him about that, and. But you know, in Korea, we talked about Christianity, and there it was a Christian audience mostly. But he said, he's like, you know, is there somewhere I can work in the faith angle to this? Because, you know, we're supposed to preach it everywhere, everywhere we go. And so we talked about that. You know, what. What could we do? And we found a spot late in the speech. And the very end of his speech, he was saying, look, guys, I want you to save your country, but in the end, you're going to have to believe in something transcendent for that to work. It's not just going to work on pragmatic grounds. And for me. And then he just, you know, for me, it's because of my belief in the Almighty, my belief in Jesus Christ, and you're going to need to have something like that to. To be able to win. And, you know, I think two people in the audience started clapping really, really energetically, and the rest kind of sat there very politely as the Japanese people.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, the Japanese are wonderful people. But. But you're right. They're not open to that. But there were two who were. Yeah.

[Blake Neff]

And maybe they were believers. I'm not sure. But, you know, I'm very glad he got to do that.

[Andrew]

And then in Korea, though.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, Korea.

[Blake Neff]

Totally different story.

[Tucker Carlson]

Very different story.

[Andrew]

We have this clip. Why don't we just play it if it's okay?

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, my gosh.

[Andrew]

18.

[Blake Neff]

Ah, right.

[Andrew]

That. That was 11 days ago, Tucker. And he's on stage, and in English, they asked him to come forward and pray and sing over Charlie. And they put their hands up and they started in English, saying, how great is our God? Sing with me. How great is our God? And Charlie put his hand on his heart, and Mikey said when he got off stage, like, he could see his eyes were misty. It meant so much to him.

[Tucker Carlson]

I just can't resist a sidebar. I was in Melbourne, Australia, not that long ago by myself on a Sunday, and I was like, I got to go to church. And Melbourne's one of the darkest cities, really, in the world. There are good things about Melbourne, but basically, it's in enemy hands, and, boy, do you feel it when you're there. And I was like, I got to go to church. So I go, of course, to the Anglican Church, which is my denomination. It's now a museum filled with Chinese tourists. I was like, oh, this is the worst. I'm feeling despondent. I go next door to the Scottish church, the Presbyterian church. Beautiful, beautiful church, like in beyond. And there's no one in it, except at the front, and it's like 100 yards away. It felt like there's this little group of people singing, and it's Koreans. And this Korean congregation of like nine people has taken over the church. Rented it on Sundays because of course, no whites are going to church. Of course. And I just thought to myself, this was God's way of reassuring me that even though the world that I grew up in is gone and totally, you know, everyone's fallen away and it hasn't worked at all, that Jesus still lives, but, you know, his name is spoken in other languages, and one of those is Korean. And there's something. There's something about watching Koreans worship that just. Oh, it's my favorite thing ever.

[Andrew]

I totally agree. They are absolute prayer warriors. But I just believe this, Tucker, and I have to say this, like, in this moment, I believe God is unleashing a new revival.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Andrew]

On this country. And Charlie is the spark that is igniting it.

[Tucker Carlson]

Completely agree.

[Andrew]

And I don't even want to say it's his death. It's the start of his eternal life and his eternal glory, his immortality. And I believe that he is seated with God in heaven and he's seated in glory. And I believe that there's a reason that Charlie and Erica would look at each other and say, you know, our mission is to make heaven crowded. And I believe that that is actually the real mission, and that is actually going to be happening right now. It's happening in our midst right now, and it's sweeping the country. And there was a story I just heard on the drive here this morning that they ran out of baptism space. They just kind of did an impromptu baptism space at one of my friends churches. And so they went out in the parking lot, started dunking people in the fountain, hundreds of them.

[Blake Neff]

Protestants are fun.

[Tucker Carlson]

I just. I just love that. If I can just say a word. I mean, I don't get involved in the Protestant, Catholic, orthodox thing because I'm just for Jesus. But if I could just stick up just for one second for my people. Protestants were real once. Like, they built this country. They did. I'm sorry. It's a fact. And they really believed in God, and they, you know, they were on the right path. They were amazing people. And I'm very aware that they've declined to the point where I make fun of them constantly, but there was something very, very real there. Very real. Sorry.

[Andrew]

Well, the circuit riders in the.

[Tucker Carlson]

I feel like I have to say that.

[Andrew]

No, no, no. I mean, listen in there as I'm somebody. Both Erica and I were cradle Catholics. Right. We were. Did the first communion and we did the catechism and the, you know, the. Anyways, I went to Catholic high school even. Did you go to Catholic high school? No.

[Blake Neff]

Long story, long story.

[Andrew]

I'll let you jam in if you want.

[Blake Neff]

But the point is my parents moved me to.

[Andrew]

I ended up getting saved in college. Very, very, very non denominational evangelical way to phrase it. I got saved in college, radically saved. So I had this Catholic background. But then I found myself in a non denominational setting alone at a school in Seattle, like the second least church city in the country. And I ended up getting radically saved. And so. But I've never cared about the distinctions. I love both.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, I agree.

[Andrew]

You know, I might have petty, minor little theological differences. Yes, doesn't matter. I love them both. I don't understand. I can't because of my path here. I never cared.

[Tucker Carlson]

Anyone who focuses on Jesus is my brother. That's how I feel. And I agree with you 100%. And if you let your. It's a little bit like Twitter actually, if you, if you think about it too much, you end up hating everybody and you miss the commonality between people and the commonality between Christians is Jesus, period. And if you think about, well, I'm mad about transubstantiation or like the last Pope was horrible Mariology, which he was.

[Blake Neff]

I'm so sad we didn't get to just have that full debate. We wanted to have just a straight, like, just for fun, like, let's debate Mary.

[Tucker Carlson]

No, I'm not doing that.

[Blake Neff]

But we wanted to do it with Charlie and now we can't.

[Tucker Carlson]

I'm not doing that. And one of the things, I hope you guys live to your 50s because. And I'm sure you will, but because when you get there you're like, wow, I've been wrong about so much. And you think that middle aged people are wishy washy and low testosterone does account for some of that. Just a fact, but part of it is just the recognition of how wrong you've been. And that is the Christian forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us. It's like first you meditate on how fallen you are and then you realize you don't have a basis upon which to judge other people actually. And you can forgive them. And that is the process that's prescribed in the Lord's Prayer. Of course it's the center of Christianity, but it's also just like a human process. And you get there and you realize, like, yeah, I'm mad about Mary. That's a fact. Okay. But then I get older and my wife's like, oh, I was just saying the rosary. My very Protestant wife. And I love it. It brings me closer to Jesus. And I'm like, I'm not judging anymore.

[Andrew]

And I really want people to understand. Tucker, you and Charlie had such a unique and special bond and relationship. It was a deep friendship, and you both had each other's back.

[Tucker Carlson]

He had my back.

[Andrew]

You had his back, too. I know those stories as well.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah. And I promised I wouldn't get into any of that. But I will say, and I'm not going to, but I will say, because I want this to be about Jesus and his love for Jesus and what he did to spread the word of Jesus throughout the world. But I will just say this, that whenever I would come and do a gig for you guys, which was a lot, because I really enjoyed it, and he was so kind to invite me and defend my being there, but I would always. He's the only person I did this with. I would always say, hey, you know, let's, like, meet in my hotel room or have a meal. Like, oh, I loved talking to him. And it wasn't just to catch up on everything that's going on in the political world. He would always bring it back to God every single time. And it was so. There's no one around. Like, so he didn't need to be like, oh, yeah, I really love God. Just us. And you'd be talking about that, and.

[Andrew]

You would come to Phoenix and you would reach out to. It was like, I have so many memories of Charlie being like, I can't. I gotta do dinner. Who are you doing dinner with? Oh, Tucker's in town. I gotta meet up with him.

[Tucker Carlson]

Always. Always. And he was so intellectually curious and flexible. And I think that also grew out of his Christian faith. And I know that as I've gotten older, it's been one of the things I appreciate most about believing in God is, like, you can admit when you were wrong, you can change your views. Paul, who created a lot of the early church, was the chief persecutor of Christians. He was a freaking Pharisee. So, like, in our religion, at its core is the fact that God can change people. And so you don't need to be brittle and afraid about admitting that. Yeah, I was totally off base. And Charlie was so much like that. He was constantly thinking about, is this the right thing? Is that the right thing? Like, there's no one in public life who does that.

[Blake Neff]

It's so easy for, like, religion, you know, for. Sometimes people use religion as an excuse for megalomania.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Blake Neff]

And Charlie was so humble, genuinely humble.

[Andrew]

Thank you for saying we would have these moments.

[Tucker Carlson]

Thank you for saying.

[Andrew]

And on this note, we would have these moments, and I'd be like, can you freaking believe what's going on? You're on south park or whatever.

[Blake Neff]

All on God.

[Andrew]

And he would say. He would say, stay humble. Stay close to Jesus. That would be the type that we need to stay humble. Need to stay close to Jesus.

[Tucker Carlson]

Really?

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

This is in his private text to.

[Andrew]

People he works with. I have a story like this, too, and I'm ashamed that I am the villain in this story. Basically, it was two weeks before he died, and I'll never forget it. There was just some annoyance that was, you know, in our way, and we needed to deal with something. I can't even remember it was. And I just remember going, hey, you know, we could just tell them XYZ and translation. We could just, you know, little white lie and it'll go away. They'll understand. And I remember seeing the, like, the dots he was typing right away. Right away. We don't lie. It was a private message with me.

[Tucker Carlson]

I love that.

[Andrew]

And it wasn't. You don't lie. It's not. I don't lie. It was Andrew. We. We here on the show in this turn in Turning Point. We don't lie.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, and not only don't lie, I mean, without even getting into it, but like, if you run a huge nonprofit, and DC Is all about huge nonprofits. I know everyone who runs them. Boy, there are temptations, and there was never any of that here ever. And Troy and I talked about that a lot. Like, here are the pitfalls in a man's life here. Here's how people get ensnared. It happened to David. I mean, we know this is a thing. He was so. And again, I just had this conversation with him right before he died because I'm very focused on. Because I've seen so many people destroyed, destroy themselves. And it's clearly like Satan acting on them. Fact. Sorry. And he was like. He was a narrow path walker. And I just have to say that because most aren't.

[Andrew]

He would run home to be with Erica.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Andrew]

If he couldn't.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Andrew]

If he. If Erica was on the road, he'd be like, are we down here? Okay, Like a donor dinner or something. He would, you know, he. After our events at night, he would do kind of like a little circuit to all the dinners, and he couldn't wait. He's like, okay. And I'd be like, I got to talk to you about one. One other thing. Charlie, hold on one second, One second. He's like, sorry, I'll talk to you about it in the morning. I got to see Erica. Bye. It was just.

[Tucker Carlson]

That is the key.

[Blake Neff]

I love to tell people this, because sometimes people who didn't watch Charlie a lot would sometimes just think, oh, he's like a young influencer. So people would ask me. They'd be like, blake, do you ever hang out with Charlie? And what I'd always say is, I don't think Charlie has ever hung out in his entire life. He was always on his mission or, you know, he was with. You know, he was with his family. It was 100%, all the time.

[Andrew]

Being said, some of the best memories that I have are the plane flights across country.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Because.

[Blake Neff]

And that's the only time he can hang out.

[Andrew]

It was amazing, by the way, when. And I think that gave him the freedom to kind of just go, huh, I'm hanging out. And, I mean, if you had to add him up, I've got hundreds of these hours, and they are some of the most amazing because he was so funny and so, so curious and so. So he did. But it was like you had to get him in this. This mode where you literally trapped him on a plane and he couldn't get out, and he was stuck in it.

[Tucker Carlson]

But what is that? I mean, most people sort of fritter away their entire lives hanging out, and I'm definitely one of them. I'm like an Arab man in the souk. I like to sit around hitting the water pipe, playing backgammon, drinking little cups of coffee, talking about women. Like, I've spent a lot of my life doing that. That's why I love Trump so much. He likes that, too. But Charlie had, like, this mission all the time.

[Andrew]

So my theory on that, Tucker, is I think in order for this whole God plan to work in Charlie's life, he had to, like, he had to impress in him, almost subconsciously hardwire it. Whatever it was. He was gonna maximize the juice, the output. And Charlie disciplined his body. He didn't put alcohol into his body. He didn't put drugs into his body. He didn't put anything into his body that he thought was going to slow him down or reduce his productivity. He was obsessed with biohacking. He was like. And I thought it was just this weird quirk Because I'm thinking, Charlie, you're gonna be alive because you're younger than me. You're gonna be alive when I'm gone. Like, chill out, relax. Have some fun. But somehow he knew there wasn't a moment to waste. And I'm finding these things, Tucker, that he found time to do. Erica's telling me he somehow found time to journal obsessively. And she never wrote her a weekly.

[Blake Neff]

Note every single week.

[Andrew]

Wrote her a weekly note on Saturday. Every Saturday. He read books. He skimmed books. He got Blake to read them. He found ways to get the team to distill information so he could absorb it. But he would do walks with books on tape. He managed to squeeze so much life into such a short period of time. And I have to believe it was God impressing and blessing him with this divine ability to maximize his output.

[Tucker Carlson]

I. I love that. And I had many conversations with him on this topic also about, like, physical health. I'm a pizza guy, so okay, yeah, physical health. I quit smoking cigarettes at 45. Like, I feel very virtual.

[Blake Neff]

It turns out you say he didn't want to put anything in his body that would hinder him. And it turns out the list of things that hinder you is all foods except, like, cabbage, grilled chicken, hot sauce.

[Tucker Carlson]

But that's basically what I mean. He was the fittest guy, but it was for a reason. I want to tell the Blake story. Blake Neff, who's sitting right here. And it's. It's just a story that just explains who he really was. And there's so much that goes on in Washington and political world that's so treacherous and cruel and anti human. And Charlie just stood against all of that, not simply in public, but in private. And I had a window into one of the amazing stories of bravery, forgiveness. It's just an incredible story, and it's about you. Again, it makes me emotional thinking about. But anyway, I don't think it's ever really been told. Sorry to make you emotional. It's an amazing story.

[Andrew]

I love about this Blake story, too, because I. And I don't want to. I'm not going to ruin the punchline here, but I would just say I. One of the strongest testaments to Charlie is the fact that this guy's a tough judge. And I know when he.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, I know he worked.

[Andrew]

And when he first started working with us, I could tell that he was a little unsure. You know, you probably had the questions. You racket. Charlie spoke the language of the people. And you're a Dartmouth kid that's a total egghead nerd, you know, like, beautiful mind kind of person. But Charlie would cut through all that, and he would speak right to the people and cut people's hearts in two and make them choose the side they were going to go. Go on. And that was not the language of Blake Neff, but we needed a Blake Neff, and I knew we needed a Blake Neff, and I just. There was this moment where I forget why, but you. You took this moment, and I remember being really touched by it, and you paid Charlie a tremendous compliment. And I knew it was, like, two years after the fact, and it. And it was. I. Charlie texted me, like, directly. He goes, whoa, did you hear. Did you hear Blake? Like, because it really meant the world to him that he won. He had won your respect, and it really meant the world to him.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah. South Dakota Germans aren't big on compliments, but I do think that. So you. If you get one from bike, it's earned. I do think the question that people had about Charlie, the question I got most often, and people came to me a lot about Charlie, like, what is this? Because they knew that I knew him and that I was friends with him. But really, the core question everyone wanted answered was, is this guy for real? Is this real? Because, like, nothing in our world's real. It's all fake, actually. And I hate to say it, but it's true. A lot of preachers are very fake. And. And I would always say, amazingly, it's 100% real. It's totally real. And I remember talking to you about that. I mean, everyone like, what is this exactly? And you concluded early. I remember when you told me, no, no, it's totally real. That's incredible. You really have to have lived in our world for a while to know how wild that is. Because most people just say, yeah, of course it's real. Not in political world. Is that fair? Very fair.

[Blake Neff]

Very fair. And he's, like, the realest guy to ever live practically.

[Tucker Carlson]

No. It makes me sad he's gone. I wish I had said this in public before he left, because I said it many times in private. I will say that to many people. Who is this guy? Is this real? What is this? And I would always say, man, if you had dinner with him, you would know it's real.

[Andrew]

So, yeah, the floor is yours. I know where you're going, but.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, this is a Blake Neff story. Okay, so this is a story that obviously, I was in the middle of it, and I've talked to a Lot of people just this week about it. I don't think it's ever been told in public. I'm gonna give the outline and then just turn it over to Blake to correct me and to fill in the details. But here's the story. So Blake worked for me at Fox News for years, probably more closely than anybody, like, intimately at Fox. And I love Blake. And Blake is obviously an unusual person, but just a wonderful person and a really, deeply decent person.

[Andrew]

I mean, it's true.

[Tucker Carlson]

And Avi's. Yeah, Blake's weird, but, like, Blake is the best. And people who love Blake really love Blake. And there's a little group of people who, you know, we all know each other. We all talk about Blake. So Blake got caught up right at the height of all this insanity, true insanity, called cancel culture. But it was more than that. It was like French Revolution stuff. And someone like, you know, Blake is naughty. Blake is a racist. Well, actually. Is that what I would say? Blake is actually not a racist. And I would admit it. He's not. He's a Christian who believes that God created everybody. So he's actually not a racist. But Fox overreacted, of course, and he left. And then Fox denounced him. They tried to get me to denounce him. Suzanne Scott tried to make me denounce Blake, and I refused. Something I'm proud of. But whatever, it was just awful. It was the saddest moment in the 15 years that I spent there. And then Blake's unemployed, an unemployable, and I get this, and I feel terrible, and I feel like I've got a moral obligation to help Blake. But who's going to hire Blake? Because he's, like, in the New York Times, he's like, a bad person, when actually he's a great person. Charlie Kirk calls me. He's like, I'm thinking about hiring Blake. I was like, God bless you, Charlie. What's he like? I said, well, Blake's very eccentric. Like, no kidding. He's the only person who ever lost weight eating junk food. Like, he's a really unusual person. Like, we talk about Blake all day long, but he's a wonderful person and he's incredibly talented. No one disputes that. And I think you should do it. He does. Charlie and I talk about. Then Blake and I talk about having these, like, conversations behind the scenes about each other. And not only does Charlie hire Blake, he puts us. Makes me emotional. He puts Blake on the air as if to say, I know this man. He is a good man. You will judge me for doing this. I'm doing it anyway because it's the right thing to do. And then, of course, it becomes this whole thing where Blake is, like, a true asset to him. But when he first did it, it was like, no, I'm doing this because it's the right thing to do. This is the last thing I'll say before turning over to Blake. I've been in this business my whole life. Nobody does that. Nobody does that. Everyone's like, oh, I'm for free speech or whatever, until it hurts me. At which point, like, sorry, pal, good luck. But Charlie pivoted against that in a way that exposed him and his group turning point to ridicule and risk, and he did it anyway. And all week, I've been talking to people about this, like, that was the acid test. Those of us in this business know how brave that was. It was the bravest thing. Anyway, sorry, Blake.

[Blake Neff]

I remember talking to you about that because I actually was weighing another employment option, and I was going, as you said.

[Andrew]

I was like, I think you maybe were behind that one, too.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, I was. I was desperate to remember.

[Blake Neff]

Just. I won't say what it was for, but we were talking about it, and I think the one that you really pointed out, that was really important. He's like, blake, I think the most important thing, like, Charlie is a for real, a sincere Christian.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Blake Neff]

And I think you're going to want to work for someone who is a for real, sincere, deeply believing Christian. And, you know, because then you'll disagree on a lot of things, but you will align on really important things.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Blake Neff]

And I think that was what carried the day with me, and I'm very glad it did. And, you know, at the time, as you said, it was like, at the time I came in, it was. He was just a very different person.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Blake Neff]

And it was over time, realizing all the ways that, as you say, you have to really see it. You're like, is this for real?

[Tucker Carlson]

You and I talked about this.

[Blake Neff]

Is this going to work? You would also have that where you're like, this can't. This can't possibly work.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right.

[Blake Neff]

And it does. And it does, because he's so completely intently sincere and fully all in on it. And I think that's what, like, amazed young people, like, you know, when he'd go to these campus events. And, you know, I think there's a lot of, you know, you'll see these people online who are, like, very, like, performatively trad or Christian or whatever, because it, like, owns the libs. Or whatever. But Charlie is just like, no, no, I like 100% believe in this. Like, and because I believe it is true and because it is important and I want everyone else to believe in it because it is true. And I think it is the most important decision they will ever make and it would always shine through and what he was doing and how he behaved, that he really believed that. And.

[Andrew]

Well, and I mean, I think. And you know this because you were at some of the campus stops. I was at some of the campus stops. 90% of the interactions as he got older. Right. The brand of Charlie was almost cemented, you know, in 2018, where he was much younger and he was like a peer to the kids on college and he would say, charlie Kirk destroys the Libs or whatever. And that was just titling. It wasn't actually in Charlie's heart. But the Charlie, by the way, didn't determine the titles, you know, like people behind the scenes.

[Tucker Carlson]

He didn't destroy anything.

[Andrew]

No, behind the scenes, that's, you know, that's a social media team that's doing the titling. That wasn't Charlie picking the title, you know, anyways. But the point is, as he got older, he transitioned to a much more Big Brother. And people started observing like this incredible Herculean patience that he would exhibit in these interactions with sometimes bad faith people, but sometimes people that just had bad ideas. And 90%, if you went and sat there and watched the entire three hour, prove me wrong, 90% of it is him being kind and gentle and thought provoking and working through whatever was the lie that was stuck in this kid's head. Or sometimes professors, but he would work with them through it and use the Socratic method to draw out the truth. And it was a beautiful thing. And, you know, he doesn't get nearly enough credit for that because the Charlie destroys the Libs clip goes mega viral. Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

I couldn't agree with you more. I have to say, when you, when all that happened to you, I just cannot say how pain. Well, you know, because we've talked about many times, but that was like one of those painful things that's ever happened to me in my life because, you know, we have such a tight staff and, and the same staff, like I don't, don't have new people working for me really ever. And I don't care to. So that was really, really painful.

[Andrew]

Oh, go ahead.

[Tucker Carlson]

And I just wanted you to have health insurance. My expectations for you were so low because you had been so mistreated and maligned and slandered and it's just so hard to come back from that. The fact that he put you on the air is possibly a mistake.

[Andrew]

What?

[Tucker Carlson]

It was not a mistake, but it was. That is so wild.

[Andrew]

So I. I have an insight into that piece of the story because I was aware of this other job opportunity and I see it now all as, like, God's plan. And I was working on kind of a panel show idea, but I didn't have the. It was just like a nugget of an idea. It was back in my head and. And I remember kind of just intuiting that in order to like, restore this man that had been so wronged by Oliver Darcy or whatever in cnn, these scumbags.

[Tucker Carlson]

I thought, you know, I need to forgive Oliver Darcy. Thank you for reminding me. As we forgive those who trespass against us. He needs to be my daily rotation.

[Andrew]

So. But you know, and by the way, I saw. I ended up in that moment in that. When we were talking with Blake at the beginning, I looked back at your monologue from that night. Maybe it wasn't your monologue. Maybe it was the finish final segment. But you said you really were defiant, and it was beautifully done because you were back at you. They. You were part of something and only had so much control at that moment. Right. And so they were bullying me.

[Tucker Carlson]

Suzanne Scott got me. I was in the parking lot of a place in. I was in Bozeman, Montana, fishing. And she called me and I went outside to do my pre show bathroom break. Always outside, if I can do it. And she called me and she said, you need to say what he said was wrong. And I said, I'm not doing that, period. And you can fire me. And the Show's live in 10 minutes. I'm not doing that. And she goes, I guess I can't make you. And she. Until the day she fired me, she never really talked to me after that.

[Andrew]

I'm not trying to get into any of that, but I do believe that.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, I want to get into it. It was horrible what they did to him.

[Andrew]

I'm just saying I will. I don't know where to go. I will say, Tucker, this is awkward for me. No, no, no, no. I would just say that I think this moment has profoundly changed all of us, including people like Suzanne. And I just want to say briefly, for what it's worth, she's been exceedingly.

[Tucker Carlson]

Wonderful, and we all change. And I've done crappy things, a lot of crappy things in my life, so.

[Andrew]

I shouldn't be judgy but to your point, your hands were tied in that moment. And you defiantly said. I remember. You said, I just want everybody to know that you are gloating over a young man's life being ruined. And shame on you. You basically, I'll never forget that. And I remember thinking, okay, like, if Tucker's got his back in this moment, this guy's pretty great. He's the best. Yeah. And he's been the best. And I love having.

[Tucker Carlson]

They came out of nowhere, man. I'll never forget that. I'll never forget that as long as I live. But anyway, the point is, whatever. And I shouldn't even have brought.

[Andrew]

We put him on fire.

[Tucker Carlson]

Exactly.

[Andrew]

And by the way, and now look at this. This show is going on. Erica Kirk has demanded that the show goes on, and we're gonna figure out the details, and Blake is gonna be critical to that. And if we hadn't have created this. This roster, this thought crime crew that we do on Thursdays, I don't know what we would do.

[Tucker Carlson]

But it takes the bravery of an individual to get there. So everything is fine now. And Blake can do whatever he wants. And people know who he is because they get to see him and they can make their own judgments about him. But when Charlie made that decision, and he's the one who would have been blamed if it had gone wrong, people didn't know who Blake was, apart from what they read in the New York Times. Slander devised by CNN and Oliver Darcy. That's a fact. And. And not helped by a lot of other people who. I shouldn't be attacking you. Right. Sorry about that. But he's the one who allowed Blake's life to continue. And I just. I felt it so strongly because I've been. That's my world. Like, I know what that is. All those people are like, well, you know, you can't put him on air. Like, he did bad things. I heard that. And Charlie was like, he was willing to stand up to him and say, no, that's not true. Like, most people are not going to do that. No one will do that.

[Andrew]

I remember the nasty articles. There was a few. And Charlie would just write back, lol.

[Tucker Carlson]

So that's courage. In case you're wondering what courage is, that's actual courage. And you know that it is because it's so rare. Nobody does that. If people do that, who are they? I live in this world. Like, I know every single person hosting every single show, and they don't do that. And he did that. And so that's what actual courage is courageous, is standing up for what is true in the service of other people, in the service of showing love to other human beings. That's the commission that we get from Jesus, period. And he actually did that at great risk to himself. And anyway, just. I've had like 50 text exchanges about this all week. Anyway, bless you, Blake, for being at the center.

[Andrew]

Thanks for standing with us.

[Blake Neff]

Thank you. Thank you very much.

[Andrew]

Genuinely. Can I say something that you told me that the night of that blew my mind.

[Blake Neff]

Go for it. Go for it.

[Tucker Carlson]

We're bringing Blake to the brink.

[Andrew]

Here we were in Provo the night of, and it was like we were all shell shocked. And Blake was there with him when it happened. And we filter in late at night into this little, like, corner of the restaurant, the hotel in Salt Lake City. And I don't know how it came up, but Blake says the most. I will never forget it. He said, charlie gave me my life back.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yep.

[Andrew]

And I. I knew exactly what he meant. And now I think the audience does too.

[Tucker Carlson]

Amen.

[Andrew]

Our dear friend's seat remains open with the golden EIB microphone in front of it. His hero, Rush. That's pretty amazing. And so, Tucker, this is the Tucker show for Charlie. And so I think it's important that I get to ask you a question.

[Tucker Carlson]

Okay.

[Andrew]

When did you meet Charlie? And tell us about how your relationship with Charlie grew, because I think it's fascinating.

[Tucker Carlson]

So I met Charlie when he was a teenager. He was connected to, funded by a close friend of ours called Foster Freeze, who's a wonderful man from Wilmington, Delaware. Well, really from Wisconsin, but lived in Wilmington, then Jackson, Wyoming, and was an investor in a company that we had. And more important, like an actual friend, really, the only investor I've ever had in anything. And a very enthusiastic Christian man, and the kind of person who was just a collector of people, you know, I met this person. He was so enthusiastic, and almost everybody around him was just wonderful. But because he was so rich and so generous, he did collect people. There were phonies in the orbit, because there always are when someone's rich. Right. And so he tells me at dinner about this kid he's met. He's only 18. He's not going to college. I've always been opposed to college. My whole life. I tried to convince all my kids not to go. I mean, I really meant it. And so he's like, you would love this guy. He's not going to college. And I was like, man, I love that, because I really am opposed. And I mean, It. And I'm like, he sounds great. And he's like, da, da, da, da, da, da. And I'm thinking, oh, man, some fast talking kid. You know, it's like throwing back Reagan quotes or something at poor Foster. You know, he was in his 70s and like late 60s and he doesn't know. And I really thought, assumed that Charlie was just some predator. And I didn't like it at all. And of course there's the bias against young people. I mean, Charlie's literally the age of one of my children. So, like. And I felt this probably is totally conventional. Telling old people what they want to hear, sucking up to the donors, whatever. So I meet him. I thought he was smart as hell, but I was very skeptical. Then I have this. He calls me, would you do an event?

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Tucker Carlson]

I was gonna be in the state anyway. So I do it and we have this kind of sort of debate. Not really a debate. Well, what actually happened was I was gonna give a speech and I got there, we were backstage, he's like, well, actually, let's just do a Q and A. And I was like, I don't know, son, I don't think you want to do that with me because I'm kind of a jerk, you know, which I am in those settings. Right. So he's like, no, no, I want you. We can. It's okay to have a debate. I was like, I don't know, man. Like, I disagree with your views on economics and foreign policy, and I'm pretty hot on these topics, so I'm just letting you know that. Oh, no problem at all. So we end up having this kind of intense thing, and I'm like, passionately opposed to marijuana and drugs. I'm just having used a lot of drugs as a child, like, I'm very opposed to drugs. Charlie never used any drugs in his whole life. And he was, at the time, he was kind of libertarian on the subject. And I remember saying, everyone in the crowd is for weed. Like, you think you're so cool, but actually it's a control device designed to make you passive and accepting of the system that's destroying you. And people kind of booed me or whatever, but Charlie looked at me like, I think that may be right and that it was that issue. It was weed of all issues. You know, it's not my top issue, but I do feel it really strongly. I hate marijuana, okay? And I know it's really cool, but no, it's like fully corporate, actually, and it's wrecking Americans, especially boys.

[Blake Neff]

It's Wrecking the parking lot of the grocery store nearby.

[Tucker Carlson]

It makes me feel like getting my gun. Like I really feel that way about it. Sorry, I shouldn't say that, but I really am mad about it. And Charlie got grooved with that. And that moment set off this, like, conversation. So I was back, I was in Arizona for something. He's like, let's go to lunch, let's go to dinner. And we started having all these really intense conversations, start putting him on Fox. And his views were changing and mine were too, by the way. It's not like I converted him. It's like I had been all kinds of embarrassing things during the scope of my long life. A libertarian, a self described neocon. Can you imagine? I mean, I'll admit it, I like got mad at Alex Jones for asking questions about 9 11. What? Like I was like a horrible person or very close minded person. I was totally wrong about everything. And so I didn't judge. Like, you should change your mind as the evidence changes. The things you thought were going to work didn't. An honest man asks himself why they didn't work and what might work. Like that's the process of adulthood. And Charlie, young people are very inflexible about what they believe. I have found, and I have a lot of young people, I have a lot of children. He was one of the only young people I've ever met who was like, oh yeah, I think I was wrong. And only belief in Jesus allows you to say that because you know that you're not judged. You know that honesty is the ticket and that if you pursue an honest path, you'll be okay. And you don't need the adulation from the crowd. You don't need the love of strangers to feel good about yourself because you know that you are loved. It gives you true freedom. And he had that. Charlie had no problem at all getting up and being like, I was a neocon. And of course with me, he didn't because he knew that I was too. I'm like cheering on the Iraq war, which I did. Like I literally did that. And I'm ashamed of it. But I'm also proud to admit it because I think that it's important to let people know that you can admit being wrong. It's okay. It's all right. We're people, we're not gods. You can be wrong.

[Andrew]

I want you to know, Tucker, that that must have gone deep because Blake can attest of all the fringe issues that he knew he was on the unpopular side. He was very, very vehemently. Against weed.

[Tucker Carlson]

No way.

[Andrew]

Oh, he went hard on it.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Blake Neff]

I just, I think you really got at it where, you know, one, he was totally unafraid of being in a huge minority on an issue and being frank about it. You know, people would ask and he'd be like, they'd ask him about, like, abortion, and he'd be like, look, you know, my position on that is a tiny minority in the United States and I'm going to keep trying anyway. And he'd say that on, you know, gay marriage, where the polls would say, you know, a big majority support it and all of that. And at the same time, yeah, the zero, like, shame about if he had to change his views. You see that so often with politicians. Well, actually, that was a different situation. You know, I voted that way because, you know, it wasn't like that. And he'll just be like, oh, no, I was wrong. I, you know, I hadn't thought about this.

[Tucker Carlson]

But you can't be controlled, if you will. So this is how the media control politicians. They find some clip. If the politician saying something different 10 years, it's like, well, it was a different country 10 years ago.

[Andrew]

He would do that. We would see these clips, you know, these really, like, they'd be like, look at. Here's Charlie defending, you know, this issue. And, And I would be like, ah, Charlie, they dug up that old clip. And he goes, oh, yeah, it was a. That was back when I was a cuck 100%.

[Tucker Carlson]

But there's no shame in that. And Charlie's example of admitting the truth about himself in public is the most edifying and important thing you can ever do because it shows people you can take the leash off and you can live in freedom because you know you're loved. You can tell the truth. We're all going to die anyway. This is the deepest truth. And your job is to be honest and to be loving to other people. Okay? That's your job. Only belief in God allows that. And once you do it, it's like it's not only fine, it's great, it's actual liberation.

[Andrew]

You said that. I remember at the first AM fest when you came back, so you had the debate and then you came back, the unplanned debate. I remember feeling so honored that you came. It was our first amfest and we really needed, like, somebody of your caliber and your, your, I'm gonna say it. You, Your fame, your, your, your. The weight that you held in the movement especially. I mean, it, it was an honor to us to have you there?

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, I'm so excited.

[Andrew]

You came out the first night, and you. You just said, let me say a few words about Charlie. He's willing to change his mind. He's willing to adapt. And. And. And I knew that was your subtle nodding to people who might have judged you. Maybe you weren't even thinking that, but it felt like it was at least saying, like, listen, I know some of you think Charlie's a certain way. Let me tell you, from that 2017 or whatever, 18 debate to now, it was. I think it was 20, 21. Like, a couple years had gone by since we'd had you back, and. And then we. You know, you've been back ever since.

[Tucker Carlson]

But it was. It's. It's so important. I just can't say it enough to be honest about yourself. It's very easy to be honest about everybody else. Oh, you're fat. I don't like your dress. Like, that's super easy. It's very hard to be honest about yourself. Like, I'm fat. I'm wearing an ugly dress. Like, no one wants to admit that, but once you do, the fetters are off and you are so free and Charlie just lived that. I feel like that's almost one of the most important things, is to admit the truth about yourself, and then no one can control you. What can you say about me that I won't readily concede about myself? Like, nothing. And then what are you gonna do to me? You know, Nothing. Oh, it's amazing.

[Frank Turek]

Can you hear me?

[Blake Neff]

That poem a week ago about Charlie, and I always think about that other one. You know, it's a much more famous one if. By Rudyard Kipling.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Blake Neff]

And it really does just perfectly describe Charlie. You know, if you can, you know, speak with kings but not lose the common touch.

[Tucker Carlson]

Exactly.

[Blake Neff]

If you. And the. Really one. The one that ends the poem, which you don't hear quoted as much. If you can fill the unforgiving minute.

[Frank Turek]

Phoenix, 60 seconds.

[Blake Neff]

Distance.

[Frank Turek]

I can only do the first half hour.

[Blake Neff]

Like, but he. He really did encapsulate.

[Frank Turek]

All right.

[Blake Neff]

Like, everything of. Of that poem about what it is to.

[Frank Turek]

Okay, thanks.

[Blake Neff]

To be a true man, to be a true adult, to be a heroic figure.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah. You want me to read it?

[Blake Neff]

Yeah, go for it.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Okay. If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you. Yeah. If you can trust yourselves when all men doubt you.

[Tucker Carlson]

Exactly.

[Andrew]

Yourself. But. But make allowances for their doubting too. If you can wait and not be tired by waiting. Or Being lied about, don't deal in lies or being hated don't give way to hating and yet don't look too good nor talk too wise. If you can dream and not make dreams your master if you can think and not make thoughts your aim if you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two imposters just the same exactly. If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools or watch the things you gave your life to broken and to stoop and build them up with worn out tools. If you can make one heap of all your winnings and risk it on one turn of pitch and toss and lose and start again at your beginnings and never breathe a word about your loss. If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew to serve your turn long after you are gone. And so hold on when there is nothing in you except the will which says to them, hold on. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue or walk with kings nor lose the common touch if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you. If all men count with you but none too much if you can fill the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds worth of distance run. Yours is the earth and everything that's in it and which is more, you'll be a man, my son.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's incredible. And the line that jumps out to me, which is the truest. And everyone, I think, understands it at some point. If you can treat triumph and disasters, those two imposters the same. They are imposters, actually. Because, you know, I'm not trying to leech the meaning from the human experience. It is meaningful, but it's not. It's. It's not the real point, actually. And there is a sense in which this is.

[Blake Neff]

It just stands out to me how many of those things we just represent.

[Andrew]

In the past hour. Yeah. And I bet being lied about don't deal in lies. That's the one thing that I kept thinking about. If you can wait and not be tired. No. Or. Or being lied about don't deal in lies. Or being hated, don't give way to hating. And you know, but winning is the real trap.

[Tucker Carlson]

Winning is the trap. That's where men destroy themselves. He and I talked about that recently all the time.

[Andrew]

Well, yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Winning is when you decide that you're God. That's the David moment. For most men, surviving triumph is the real trick. And so few can do it. And he could.

[Andrew]

I think it's a beautiful. Thank you for bringing that. Actually, Blake has brought two poems to us this week that I am the Egghead. I mean, that one about from World War I. What was the name of that poem?

[Blake Neff]

For the Fallen.

[Andrew]

For the Fallen.

[Tucker Carlson]

Blake can read poetry in a very heterosexual way, which is.

[Andrew]

Are you saying that I just did it in a nun?

[Tucker Carlson]

No, no, no, no, no. That was so straight. It was unbelievable. I'm just saying, you don't meet. A lot of guys, are like, I.

[Andrew]

Want to share some poetry with you. I've never. I've never been accused. I have a unblemished record of heterosexuality. And, you know, it's funny, I'm stealing that line from Charlie Kirk. He would always say, I have an unblemished record of heterosexuality. But you don't get enough credit for something. I just want people to understand that, Tucker. I mean, I've seen you backstage, I don't know, more times than I can count now, and you are the exact same. With the guy who's taken out the trash as our PAs and our assistants and the people in between as you are with Charlie or me or Blake. You are the exact same human. And I really want everybody to know that about you because you wouldn't say it about yourself. You treat everybody. I can't tell you how many times that has occurred to me because I'll be needing to drag you somewhere where you need you to go. But you're deep into a conversation in the corner with the assistant that, like, I don't even know that I necessarily do the name of this, because we have so many place, right? And you would just be, like, engrossed in this deep conversation, and I would feel bad, you know, we gotta grab Tucker. He's gotta go on stage in like five minutes or something. And I love that about you, man. And I just want the world to know.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, thank you. No, I mean, I love people and, you know, God created everyone. But it's also true that I grew up in rich people world back when it was an egalitarian world. It's one of the main changes in my countries in my lifetime is that rich people are not egalitarian anymore. But I grew up, you know, in an affluent family around rich people, and, you know, the housekeeper comes to Thanksgiving dinner, period, period. And that's a WASP thing. I'm just gonna say it out loud. That's a WASP thing, and that's gone. But we felt that very, very strongly. And I just think that's right.

[Andrew]

It's not gone, because we still believe it, and you still believe It.

[Tucker Carlson]

I really believe it. I really believe. I'll just say one thing. Everyone hates the Wasps, and I beat up on them constantly. But in the club that I spent my life at, I don't even know if they're clubs anymore. But the only thing you could do to get booted from the club was to be rude to the staff, period. You could be drunk. They're always drunk. Of course, you could be, you know, whatever. You could say anything. But if you were rude to a waiter, you were gone. I mean, they wouldn't even have a hearing about it because so deep was the. Was the culture on that question. It's that you. We are all, underneath it all the same. We were all created by God. We have different aptitudes or languages. We're very different in a lot of ways. But fundamentally, we're all going to stand alone before God. And that was the idea that spawned the democratic republic that we grew up in. Anyway, that's the core idea of America that is never articulated anymore. We didn't have Fast Track at Disney World when I was growing up, and I still feel that way. And I'm married to a chick who really feels that way. I mean, really feels. You get married in my family and, you know, the guy who cuts her grass is coming to your wedding whether you like it or not. Like, that's. That's the rule in my house.

[Andrew]

I love that.

[Tucker Carlson]

I'm not saying that to make myself sound virtuous. It's just like that is something that we have lost and we have to fight to regain that. And all these, like, little fake aristocrats flying around in their planes. That's one of the reasons I really am upset with them is because they've forgotten that specific thing.

[Andrew]

Charlie wanted better elites.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Andrew]

And, yeah, I mean, you model it and it's not gone because we're talking about it right now. And maybe we can bring it back in the spirit of actually doing a show. We have.

[Tucker Carlson]

Sorry, it's like, one of my obsessions.

[Andrew]

I have this great clip that I can't wait to share with everybody. But we're gonna bring in Frank Turek, who crosstalk. He was with Charlie on the day. Charlie. He would go to Frank with ideas of apologetics and how to argue for the faith and contend for the faith in the public square. So, Frank, welcome to the Charlie Kirk show with Tucker Carlson. The great Tucker Carlson with us.

[Tucker Carlson]

Hey.

[Andrew]

Hey.

[Frank Turek]

I just want to piggyback on something Tucker just said. The only worldview that agrees with what Tucker just said is Christianity, you know, in. In Hinduism, there's a caste system. In Islam, if you're not a Muslim, you're a second class citizen. In the secular world. There's no way to ground these moral values and the moral worth that every individual has. The only worldview that does that is Christianity. And that was the worldview that Charlie and everybody here at this table right now wants to demonstrate is true and try and persuade young people to follow.

[Tucker Carlson]

I love that you said that. I think that that is indisputably true. I think it's provable. You know, the founding documents still exist. We know what the people who wrote them were thinking, and they were informed by a culture that is a product of Christian civilization, period. Western civilization is Christian civilization. And I'm not against other religions, by the way. I don't follow them, but I'm not mad at them. I'm just gonna want to say that I'm not. I know a lot of great people who are of different faiths, but Christianity is unique in that it's true. And it's unique in that it believes that every person is at least potentially chosen by God. Every person and the whole New Testament is that story, by the way. And so Christians feel that deeply. The cultures that they create reflect it. And I grieve its passing and I pray for its return to our country.

[Frank Turek]

Well, ironically, Tucker, Charlie's martyrdom might be the turning point to bring it back. I don't know. Well, you do know, because you're seeing what's going on at TP USA right now.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Frank Turek]

How many people want to start TPUSA chapters. What are we up to now, Andrew? Is it 62,000, something like that?

[Andrew]

Yeah, I mean, it's growing by the minute, so it's probably, let's just say approximately 65,000.

[Frank Turek]

We had 2,000 before that. I mean, I'm seeing people online on some YouTube videos that have to do with Charlie, some of my own YouTube videos. They're all over the world. There's people in Denmark going, you know, I was an atheist, and because of Charlie Kirk, I'm a Christian now. Australia, same thing. London, same thing. This isn't just in America, this is happening all over the world. And so I want to commend every one of you for advancing the cause that Charlie so was so near and dear to Charlie's heart. In a time of mourning, it's got to be so difficult, Andrew and Blake especially, to continue on. But Charlie would want it, and that's why we're all here right now.

[Andrew]

Well, And, Frank, I, you know, bless you. I know you've had to deal with the conspiracy theories and the, you know, why'd you touch your hat at this time? Because, you know, that wretched video. I mean, but bless you, brother. I just want to be. I just want to be a character reference for you. And Charlie loved you so much. You were always there for Charlie, and I know how much he leaned on you for apologetics and for thinking through these deep issues, you know, around when he was on Bill Maher recently. And, you know, you've meant so much to him and your work at Cross Examine, like you are a dear brother and a dear friend and some of that garbage, like, I don't even pay it any heed, but I know you have. You were there the day that it happened. I know this has been terrible for you, too, and you've had to deal with all this garbage, but, you know, God bless you. And I'm sorry that that has been something in your experience.

[Frank Turek]

Thanks, brother. I mean, that's. That actually hasn't bothered me all that much, to tell you the truth. I just think it's so colossally stupid that if somebody wanted to shoot somebody, they'd need a guy standing 25ft from him to signal, hey, get him. He's the guy. I mean, he's. It makes absolutely no sense at all. So it was just a terrible day, but we all did the best we could to try and help and save Charlie. And then once we couldn't, all we could do was take Erica's lead and your lead, Andrew and Mikey's lead, because you were all there to march forward and take his legacy to new levels. And Lord willing, that's what's going to happen.

[Andrew]

Well, Frank, you're going to be a key part of that. And, you know, I. I joke with Erica. I'm like, erica, he left us all the keys. He had, all the people that we needed, all the. All the reference points, all the. All the true allies, not the snakes, not the. Not the. The grifters, the true people. And you are a true man, and you have great character and you have great heart, and you've been a great friend to Charlie and to us.

[Frank Turek]

So, you know, thank you, brother, as.

[Andrew]

You have to me a thousand times over.

[Frank Turek]

Thank you. But let's just do whatever we can to advance this legacy now and that.

[Andrew]

You mentioned it, Erica and I. Do you want to hit.

[Tucker Carlson]

I do want to hit that. Because, you know, they've been referenced. I know that a lot of stuff going on online. I'VE checked out. Actually just won't say that because it's too upsetting to me. I know it's extremely upsetting for you guys since you're way more in the middle of it than I am. But obviously you need a fair, impartial, well explained investigation that assures everyone the rule of law lives in the United States. I think it's essential and I hope that we get it. I think we're going to have to push for it. We should push for it. But as to what happened, again, totally fair in my view, to ask sincere questions. But I think it's important to remember the big picture, which is whatever happened, it was a species of the same phenomenon which was the fight of evil against good. And his murder was an attempt to extinguish the light. Period. And it didn't work. That's the main thing to know. There are lots of things I want to know. And again, we have a civil system that has to go through a process in order for this government to continue, or any government, it has to be transparent and motivated by good faith. And it has to try to affect justice. That's a key and I don't think we should blow past it. However, again, big picture, this is light versus dark. And you feel the darkness all around us. It comes in many different forms and many different guises. These are disguises. Okay? But what it really is is the age old, you know, it's the Lord of the earth, it's Satan, sorry to say that it is deliver us from the evil one, I think is the actual translation in the word's prayer. And the evil one is all around us. But Charlie's murder is a reminder that we are surrounded by God and God's protection and God's love. And that is so obvious. The light has not only not been extinguished, it's glowing brighter. I hate like dumb metaphors like that, except this one is totally real. And so we should, or I speak for myself, I'm going to focus on that. I'm going to focus on the big picture while demanding precise accounting. That is legitimate, but I'm not going to get so caught up in that stuff that I miss the true message, which is forces of darkness tried to extinguish the light and not only did they fail, their effort was counterproductive. That is the truth.

[Andrew]

Frank, I was just. Sorry, I got. I was sort of wrapped by what you were saying.

[Tucker Carlson]

Sorry. I felt that. I felt it coming up. I couldn't keep it down.

[Andrew]

It was beautiful. I was looking for somebody else to respond here quickly.

[Frank Turek]

Well, let me mention something related to that. You know, our mutual friend James Lindsay had a text exchange with Charlie. In fact, he sent it to me the other night because I was speaking at a university here in North Carolina on one Wednesday night about Charlie and I related this story. And let me just read you what James sent to Charlie and what Charlie sent back. Very astute response by Charlie. James said this is August 24, 2023. Communism is by far the best evidence in support of Satan's existence. Charlie writes back a hundred percent. And then the next text he writes back, if there is a Satan, then there is a God. And James writes back that would follow. So evil actually shows that God does exist, not that he doesn't. Because there'd be no such thing as evil unless there was good. And there'd be no such thing as good unless God existed. Because in any objective sense, the only way you can define good is God's nature. Otherwise everything's a matter of opinion. You couldn't say murder was really objectively wrong unless there's a standard of objectively right that we're all obligated to obey. And what we mean by that is God's nature. And as Tucker pointed out earlier, our founders understood that we hold these truths to be self evident, that all men were created and endowed by their government. No, it doesn't say that. Endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights. So if evil exists, and it all that we all know it does, we saw it eight days ago, then God exists.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, and that is honestly the way that a lot of us were convinced of the reality of God was by being forced to acknowledge the reality of evil. I can say that for myself. My wife who's like the person, the person who keeps our family text chain grounded in the truth, sent a verse this morning that basically said that exact thing. And there are a number of them throughout both Old and New Testaments, as you know better than I. But that say that God will use evil for his purposes and that he will reveal himself through sadness as well as joy. And that is practically true. It's not even a theoretical concept, it's a living concept. For those of us who concluded just on the basis of the evidence that these were not political differences, actually these were not political phenomenon. These were a bunch of different things. I won't get specific, but you know, I'm talking about this is the face of evil and that brought us to the reality of God. It's like wild. That actually happened. It happened to Me.

[Andrew]

I. I'm loving all of this because it's making my head spinning. So I want to say one thing about. I want everybody to know. And I know, Blake, you've been contemplating this, too, but Charlie was willing to give the very last measure of his effort and his life. He really was. And he said it multiple times. And I think the first time he said it on stage, he, you know, it wasn't something that was planned. It came out of him naturally. And Erica heard it, and Erica was like, be careful when you say that, please. You know, and that's really powerful. But he said it again and again. He said it on a Lance Wall now show. I remember one time saying, like, you know, I mean, and he was very aware of the story of Steven. He was very well aware of the prophets, and he was very well aware that people that wanted to hurt him and it never stopped him. And I think we need to remember that when we think about evil and we think about. Because death, where is your victory? Oh, death, where is your sting? It's the last thing that. You know, it's like you said, they tried, they meant it for evil, but the Lord is taking it and he's turning it to good and for the saving of many lives. And I always was caught by that wording in the scriptures, the saving of many lives. Obviously, he's talking about the Israelites in that instance, but it, as we contemplate it for our own moment, the saving of many lives. And I think about all these baptisms and all these reports of the churches being overflowing and across the country and these. We didn't riot tucker. We didn't burn businesses. We didn't tear down windows and doors. We prayed. And Charles, that is the biggest, biggest, most amazing testament to the character of Charlie Kerr.

[Tucker Carlson]

But it's also the nature of. Or it has been my experience, anyway. I'm not a theologian, but I just will say that the. I've had many moments, especially in the last 10 years, where, boy, you can feel it around you, like, for real. You can feel the menace, you can feel the hate. You can feel the threat comes out of nowhere. I've had a couple pretty intense experiences with it. Very intense. And they are followed invariably by the peace of God, by the Holy Spirit. And you know that God is using this moment for your benefit, your edification and your joy. That is true that out of tragedy, and it's such a cliche and it's such a kind of syrupy hallmark false assurance on the surface that I hesitate Even to say it. But I've just lived it so much. I've lived it so much. That is absolutely how God has communicated with me in my life, like directly in is by contrasting his presence with the evil that you feel around you. And so it is in a weird way, in the middle of tragedy, like a true blessing. And if you see a loved one, you know, we all go through this as we age. I've been through it a lot recently where someone you really, really love dies and then you're just filled with this sense of the presence of God that's absolutely real. It's not, you're not manufacturing it. It's not like a immune response or something. It's like a presence from outside coming into you. And I think the whole country feels it or the people who are alive to it feel it now strongly.

[Frank Turek]

In fact, the greatest evil of all time, the sacrifice of Jesus, has led to the greatest good. Without the sacrifice of Jesus, we'd all be dead in our sins. But Christ was sacrificed so that our punishment could be put on Him. And when we trust in him, we're not only forgiven, but we're given his righteousness. You know, there's a misunderstanding among some. They think in order to get to heaven, I got to be good. No, no, no, no. There's nobody good enough. Jesus said there's nobody good but one. And that was him. In order to get to heaven, you need to take his sacrifice and apply it to yourself. You need to take the punishment that went on him. And you, you trust in him to get that forgiveness because your punishment was put on Him. And then by trusting in him, you're not only forced to forgiven, you're given his righteousness. So good works are a result of Christianity, they're not the cause of Christianity. The cause of Christianity in someone's life is to trust in what Christ has done. And out of love for what Christ has done, then you'll do good works. By the way, I'm really, I'm really struck by a quote from Peter Kreft who said this about what evil can do in our lives to help us become more like Christ. He said this. He said the point of our lives is not comfortable, comfort, security, or even happiness, but training, not fulfillment, but preparation. This world is a lousy home, but it's a fine gymnasium.

[Andrew]

Well, Frank, I just want to say again, I know you've got a catch a flight here, so God bless you, my friend. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for being such a rock in Charlie's Life. I'll say it. You don't have to give them any heat. I'm sorry about the conspiracy theories, specifically. Specifically around you and some of my other friends that were around the table. They are utter garbage. And we stand by you 100%, my friend. And just thank you for being just an amazing guy, and you meant so much to Charlie, and. And we'll see you in a few days.

[Frank Turek]

Thank you, brother. Thank you, Tucker. Thank you, Blake.

[Tucker Carlson]

Thanks, Frank.

[Frank Turek]

God bless you guys.

[Andrew]

Thank you. So Charlie was very well aware of the existence of evil. Obviously, so were us on his team. You know, there's a. By the way, just one other conspiracy theory. I just want to snuff out here. One of our dear friends that literally, from the very beginning, started with us and loved Charlie like a brother. He grabbed the SD cards out of the camera afterwards, and there's all these conspiracy videos about. Why did he grab the SD cards? Well, first of all, they're in the possession of the FBI. Okay? It's not like he took them and, like, ran off with them. Second of all, I asked him personally, I said, why did you do that? And he looked at me, and this was his answer. He said, because I know people can be evil. And he did not want that footage being grabbed by somebody. There was videos of people after the incident going and stealing hats off the table. I mean, so I'm so grateful he did that and that. That was his instinct. He's like, I'm depressed to know that that was why I did that. But I knew that I had to protect that footage because I know I wanted. I mean, you know, you're recording in, like, 4K, you know, and so I'm so glad he did that. But Charlie knew the existence of evil.

[Tucker Carlson]

Can I say, I think that people can feel the existence of evil, and that just to put in a sympathetic word for people who are trying to make sense of this and coming to the wrong conclusions, I think they're motivated, for the most part, by. By pure intent. I think they don't trust the authorities. They have every reason to feel that way. I know that for a fact. Not the Trump administration, in general. Like, we're not. You know, there's been a lot of lying, and it's corroded the trust. That's not their fault, actually. They're the victims of that point.

[Andrew]

Thank you.

[Tucker Carlson]

There are, of course, bad actors who are doing it for clicks or whatever, but I guess. But there are far more people who love Charlie. They loved what he stood for. They feel like he was murdered by evil. They're absolutely right. They're not sure what variety of evil. There's no authoritative person to tell them. So I guess I'm just not surprised at all. This is a message I've told to a lot of people. This is what happens when you lie too much and you hide too much. And going forward, I just want everybody with power to be honest in the way that Charlie was honest about themselves. That will do more than anything to fix this, to make people love each other and hear each other. And if people are honest, we got here because of lying. And the only antidote is truth. And so truth about yourself, not about other people. Stop talking about other people. Admit who you are. And once you do that, people can feel that. And they immediately, as they will Charlie, they respond to it. They're like, I believe you because you're honest about you. Anyway. I want that.

[Andrew]

Yeah. A buddy of mine just said something that I think is really profound. He said two people. And I believe this about you too, Tucker, which is why you're so important. But two people can say the same. Could say the same thing. Just imagine Charlie Kirk, 30 million followers across social media, and somebody else also very prominent.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Andrew]

And they would say the same thing, but when Charlie said it, it would echo and ripple across the world.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, because we're all like, we're all animals, by the way. And so, so much of what we know, we receive non verbally. We can smell each other, we can feel the vibe. I don't care if that sounds flaky. It's true. My dogs can do it and so can you. And if a deceptive man is speaking, I don't believe what he says, even if it's factually accurate. And if an honest man is speaking, I know it. I can feel it. That's why everyone loves Blake, despite his eccentricities.

[Andrew]

You're honest.

[Tucker Carlson]

He is honest. He's not a liar. And Charlie was the same. And we just know that. You can't dissuade me of that. I know that's true.

[Andrew]

Let's go ahead and play. Cut 20. This is Charlie talking about the existence of evil, revealing God's presence.

[Erica Kirk]

He has Christians, ethical monotheists. We have the problem of evil. Atheists have evil. No problem on the atheist side. They can't say that evil actually exists, because without God, if God does not exist, then we are nothing more than just a clump of cells. And there is no such thing as evil. You only know something is evil if you have good to compare it to. If I have a piece of paper and I draw a crooked line, how do you know this line is crooked? You immediately look at it. You say, that's a crooked, squiggly line only because in your mind, you know what a straight line is. If you don't believe in God, then you say, evil's no problem. But if you are upset with it, you actually are implying that you believe in God. You might be angry at God, you might be wrestling with God. You might think that God is unjust. That's a completely different thing than not believing in God.

[Tucker Carlson]

There's no one who doesn't believe in God. Everyone believes in God because the spirit of God is within us, because he made us. The divine spark exists whether you acknowledge it or not. So your options are three. Either you acknowledge it and try to live by it. You ignore it and numb yourself, or you rage against it. And so that would be the atheists, the agnostics, and the Christians in reverse order. And you can see them immediately. You know, the agnostics are numb, the atheists are enraged, and the Christians have peace. But you don't have any other options because it's just real. It pre exists. You and every single person feels it.

[Andrew]

Honestly, Tucker, thank you so much for making the time. By the way, everything we've asked of you, you just said, whatever I could do. Yes, I'll clear my schedule. Yes, absolutely. And that's a. That's just how you are. And I love that about you.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, I want to get on the road. I mean, my favorite thing that Charlie did in his professional life was get out and physically speak to people in their physical presence. I think that's so important. I love the Internet, I guess. Pretend to love the Internet. I hate it. But mostly I love being with people physically and smelling them. And he was, like, the last person who really loved that, and he got murdered. And I just. I grieve his death, of course, but I also am really concerned that that whole thing will die. It's so important to be there physically. Like, ask me anything in my physical presence. And so I'm doing that for you guys. I'll do as much as you want, because I just really believe in that.

[Andrew]

Well, we were gonna save that for Monday, but I. So they announced it.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, I'm not a planner, but yeah.

[Andrew]

So breaking news.

[Tucker Carlson]

You guys want me to go out there?

[Andrew]

I will. Yeah. Breaking news here. Tucker Carlson will be a part of continuing Charlie's legacy by touring with us wherever you want. It'll be at least one Stop.

[Tucker Carlson]

We'll say it like that during grouse season. And so that's like, the ultimate expression of love. Talk about laying down your life.

[Andrew]

I love this season, you know, take up your cross daily. So I want to. I want to. I want to pivot this conversation to Charlie's wife.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes.

[Andrew]

Erica Kirk and I joked yesterday. Yeah, thought crime. I got a little. You guys. You guys razzed me about it. But I was quoting Blake, and because it came out, it was just this, like, amazing thing. And I should know better than to air private conversations publicly. But Blake. Erica was referenced, and Blake just goes, what a woman, dude.

[Tucker Carlson]

She's unbelievable.

[Andrew]

She's amazing.

[Tucker Carlson]

I was in Phoenix, flying to Phoenix or something else. Charlie texted me on the plane and said, I heard you're coming to Phoenix. Because he knew everybody. I was like, how do you know that? He goes, do you have time for lunch? Yes. Nothing to do with him. Was not here for Turning Point at all. And so I meet him at lunch with his girlfriend Erica, and he wants me to introduce me to her. And I called Susie, my wife after. And I was like. Because my long standing view has been, you know, it's critical. Like, I really believe in marriage, but not for, like, syrupy reasons. Like, I think it really matters. I was like, that chick is a star. I mean, she was just like, no, this is what's true. And that's not true. I mean, she is. Tough is not exactly the right word because it's from love, it's from Christian faith, it's from faith in Jesus. But it like, oh, man. Oh, my gosh. Unwavering.

[Andrew]

And you want to know a crazy love that you want to know a crazy thing I just realized last night. So Andrew Breitbart dies in 2012, March 1st. That inspires Charlie Kirk to start Turning Point USA in 2012. Guess what else happened in 2012? And we talk about people getting prepared and these little, like, nuggets that you think about. I just realized this. Erica Kirk won miss Arizona in 2012 and hung out with Donald Trump in 2012 because of that.

[Tucker Carlson]

I know.

[Andrew]

And so, I don't know. There are no coincidences, but you can just see how God was preparing them. And you know Erica as well. You know, Erica grew up with a single mom.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And so, you know, obviously you wanted Charlie's kids to know their father in a deep, in profound, personal way. But Erica is uniquely, even in the midst of that tragedy, is uniquely able to navigate that, even just conceptually and emotionally. Something I've talked to her about. And it's powerful even hearing her as she's working these pieces out. And again, I don't want to share too much privately. So they said this publicly, and I just love it. And I shared this on Twitter X the other day, and it went viral. So let's go ahead and play cut 19. One of my favorite interactions, seeing Charlie and Erica.

[Erica Kirk]

My wife joins us. Erica Kirk, the beautiful, legendary Erica.

[Blake Neff]

I love you so much.

[Tucker Carlson]

I love you.

[Andrew]

You're my best friend.

[Erica Kirk]

Welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show. We have asked the audience for questions. You pick one.

[Andrew]

Who is more conservative and why?

[Tucker Carlson]

Erica.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Erica Kirk]

By far, not even close. I am a moderate compared to Erica.

[Tucker Carlson]

Andrew always jokes that once you got.

[Andrew]

Married to me, you got more bass.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's true. That is true.

[Erica Kirk]

No, Erica is very conservative. Do you think having kids made you more conservative?

[Andrew]

100, which I didn't think was possible, but a hundred percent. Absolutely. And do you. And a better wife.

[Tucker Carlson]

Boy, that's the realest thing ever. It's hard to talk about your marriage because no one believes you, of course, because it's like, it's your wife. You can't say anything bad. But, like, I just know for a fact that that's true.

[Andrew]

It's really true.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, I should note, because I can't control myself, that there was a picture of them in Maine, which they loved. That makes me sad.

[Andrew]

Yeah, well, Charlie was a bad. He was bad at vacations.

[Blake Neff]

Yeah, terrible at vacations.

[Andrew]

So he was in Maine this summer on vacation, and he was. I just loved how it kept, like, oh, well, okay. Fox and Friends want me, wants me to guess. So somebody take the weekend, like, the best days of the vacation, you know, where he could actually maybe Erica was just totally game for it. She was like, cool, let's go to New York.

[Tucker Carlson]

No, they came to my house and he's like, I want to buy a house here. I was like, oh, got to. The state needs you. It's good, you know that. I'm sorry that they didn't, but it's.

[Blake Neff]

Just been amazing to hear her talk about, you know, not just their relationship, but like, how, as, you know, how they both viewed marriage and you know what you're saying. The last. The last exchange I had with Charlie by text message just on the way to the event, he was, what are the best arguments for monogamy? And it gets back to that, you know, the Christian civilization stuff we talked about. Because he loved all the takes I'd give him where I'm like, yeah, you know, Christian marriage is in the Bible, but it's also this, like, secret weapon that made the west great. And like, countries that follow Christian marriage, like, they're amazing, they excel, they improve, they get better, they have harmony between men and women far more than any other civilization. He loved all of that. So I was rattling all that often. I. I think the last thing I got from is he, like, hearted a list that I posted. And then 10 minutes later he was on the stage.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah, that was those. I've looked back at those because I was on that text chain and I was chiming in and they were the last texts that I exchanged with them too. And it was like 30 minutes before it happened. And yeah, we were talking about marriage, that is.

[Blake Neff]

And when they talk about, you know, hearing Erica talk about it where she'll say stuff that sounds unbelievable to you, you know, she's like. People would ask me, you know, did you get mad at Charlie because he traveled so much and was doing so many things? And she's like, no, I didn't. And it was because we were on the same team, we were on the same mission. And I would have never wanted to in any way be hindering from him executing God's mission, and he would have never wanted to fail in any way in me executing the mission God gave me.

[Andrew]

But she was. But when he was present, you know, he. He practiced Shabbat, not because he's Jewish, but because he needed sort of a discipline to follow. And so from sundown on, on Friday, really all of Saturday, it was like he was off.

[Tucker Carlson]

He was.

[Andrew]

He turned us. You couldn't call him. You couldn't get a hold of him. I mean, there was ways, if an emergency happened, that I could get a hold of him. But.

[Blake Neff]

And it was legit.

[Andrew]

But it was legit.

[Blake Neff]

You'd see the wave of him, like, reading the things you sent on, like Friday night or Saturday morning, blowing you up.

[Andrew]

On Sunday when I try to go to church, all of a sudden Charlie's back on. And it was just like, you know, and, but. But he, he gave that time so purely and fully to his wife and kids. And Erica absorbed every moment of that. And I, you know, I told this story yesterday, and I do want to, like, clarify something, because apparently people took it the wrong way, but the night it happened, she got a call from a very important person. And that very important person, I'm not going to say who. It maybe isn't who you think, but it's a very important person. But asked, like, I, you Know, I just have to ask, like, what do you know? And he wasn't talking about some conspiracy theory. They hadn't even got the shooter at this point.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's a fair question.

[Andrew]

He was asking, what do you know about Turning Point? What do you know about what Charlie was doing politically? What do you know about the donors? What do you know? What do you know? Like, what are we working? What's our starting point here? And she said back, I know everything.

[Tucker Carlson]

Thank God.

[Andrew]

Because Charlie would spend. They would walk and they would talk and they would. Religiously, they would walk. Because Charlie hurt his back. He couldn't run anymore. He used to run like seven to ten miles a day. When I first started working with Charlie, he would just be gone running, and he hurt his back. He couldn't do it. So they would walk together. And if you ever walked with Charlie, the guy could keep a pace. The guy, big long legs. And they would talk, and they would lay in bed and they would talk. And he told. She was his vault. And she knows everything.

[Tucker Carlson]

She has the same spirit. So when. When that was announced or I heard that she was taking over, I was just. I was just elated. It's not an attack on anyone else, by the way, or a reference to any of the internecine battles currently going on, which I'm trying to not think about. It's just the. The fact, the provable fact that she had the same spirit and the same goals, same mission that he had, that is just true.

[Andrew]

Just more based.

[Tucker Carlson]

I just want it without, you know, whatever, but getting into it. But I just want to affirm that I just saw that recently yet again, and I'm just so thankful that she's taking over because it's a big deal. I saw Trump on Monday. He said, I couldn't got elected without Charlie Kirk. And he's not prone to say things like that. He meant it.

[Andrew]

Yeah, J.D. said the same thing with Jesse. And I know J.D. feels that. And, you know, it's just been amazing too, to see Washington, you know, the power center, the imperial capital, as Charlie always used to say. By the way, Charlie hated going to Washington. Hated it. He loved being out here in Phoenix. Thought it was like our secret weapon. Well, besides you being the secret weapon, it was our secret weapon. To be outside of that bubble and you. Yet somehow all of Washington is coming to him.

[Tucker Carlson]

Can I say one thing? I shouldn't even get involved in this, but it's a fact, so I want to say it. He loved J.D. vance. He loved Donald Trump, of course, often Said it, but he really loved J.D.

[Blake Neff]

Vance. The stuff he would talk about in private and some of that would bubble out. He loves telling the story of the first time he endorsed him for office. And in case people haven't heard it, it's such a great story where Vance has announced he's running in Ohio for Senate. And it's a very long shot bid at this point. I think he pulled at 2 or 3. He comes in, he meets Charlie. He talks to Tyler, too. And they come out and they're like, he said everything we believe, like, we've got to endorse him. Like, if we're not going to endorse this guy, why are we even here?

[Tucker Carlson]

Exactly.

[Blake Neff]

And they're basically like, you know, they make that commit. And there's a miscommunication because it's a big open Senate. You know, it's a big Senate race, and Charlie's got to call a lot of donors and, you know, explain why we're doing this. We're not going for your guy. This isn't a slight on you. You know, manage all the.

[Tucker Carlson]

The guy was their guy.

[Blake Neff]

And instead there's a miscommunication. And it just goes out like, blast Turning point is endorsing J.D.

[Tucker Carlson]

Vance.

[Blake Neff]

And it goes out way too early. And he asks about. He's like, well, we all believe it. And he's just like, J.D.

[Andrew]

Vance is amazing, by the way, that you're part of that story, because it was. He saw JD on your show and was like, he. And at that point, he didn't know all the little deep things that he believed. And he just. He kept like. I remember him saying, jd's got, like, something. There's something about J.D. he's got.

[Tucker Carlson]

That is exactly.

[Andrew]

He's got the goods. And before you explain why I'm not.

[Tucker Carlson]

Gonna get involved, I just say, he loves jd.

[Andrew]

Yeah, he loved. And by the way, JD loved him. And I think you can see that. Do you want to put any. A cap on that? I know you have a story to tell.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, I just. I just want to. I don't think I can emphasize it enough. And again, I'm really going to try, because I think the point of Charlie's life was following Jesus. I just want to say that again, as someone who knew him well, I think the point of his life was following Jesus. So I really want to help be helpful to that mission and not get distracted with the other stuff. And I have distracted with the other stuff for sure, because I feel strongly about it. But I'm going To try and stop. But I just want to say, if you want to understand Charlie Kirk, he loved J.D. vance and Donald Trump, but he was genuinely close to JD like, as a friend and vice versa. And that's. That is just factually true. And I don't want to hurt anybody by going on, but that is. That is true.

[Andrew]

JD Earned every.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes, he did.

[Blake Neff]

He loved the story, and it really meant a lot to him. So we had that event in June.

[Andrew]

In Detroit last year in Detroit.

[Blake Neff]

The People's Convention, we called it.

[Andrew]

I assume that was, like, it was pre him getting announced as vp, and they were just starting to kind of like, float his name out there.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah.

[Blake Neff]

Which Charlie, of course, very much wanted to do. And he used all of his political talents to try to promote that. And one of those things is. Yeah, invite him to the convention. And what he always loved about it was. I think it was his anniversary either the day before or the day after. And so they.

[Andrew]

Yeah, no, no, it was the day before, because. Yeah, we wanted him on Saturday night to be sort of the final speaker on Saturday night.

[Blake Neff]

And Charlie would love that. He's like, it's my anniversary with my.

[Andrew]

Wife, but I will. I will commit to getting you. Getting there on Sunday. And Charlie was like, great. You could be the final speaker of the event. And that gave him just enough time.

[Blake Neff]

To get to literally just drive up there, which I believe he did. He personally himself drive the car, and he. He gets there, and, like, you know, we're used to a lot of people having, you know, entourages, and he just shows up. I think he had one aide with him.

[Tucker Carlson]

There's J.D. yeah, yeah.

[Blake Neff]

Walks in.

[Andrew]

It's just like, I'm J.D.

[Blake Neff]

Vance. I'm a speaker. I think, like, maybe some security guy didn't initially recognize him.

[Andrew]

No, it's just J.D. vance walking by himself backstage. I was like. I think that's where Jenny, like, you know, he's just kind of, like, strolling in and, like, we found out he drove. He's like, oh, yeah, yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

It was just, you know, there's never been a less affected politician. I always promise myself I'm not going to compliment J.D. vance well, because I don't want to hurt him. But there's never been a less affected leader ever, like, period.

[Andrew]

I totally agree. I've never seen one. If there is no. But, yeah, Charlie. People would ask Charlie a lot, are you gonna run for president? Are you gonna run for office, or. And he would always. You will not find one piece of content anywhere, ever. It doesn't exist where he said, yeah, you know what? I wanna be president. He would always say. He would always say, I love what I'm doing. God's called me here. We have more impact here. And that was all very true. Privately, I had that conversation with him, and I wouldn't say he answered it with me, although maybe there were some other instances where I caught an inclination. But what he said was, JD's ready. And because JD's running, I don't even have to think about it. And I don't know if that's like. I don't know if he said, let me say, because JD exists, we're going to do everything we can. He didn't say that he, you know, confirmed or anything, but because JD exists, I don't even have to think about it. And Charlie, you know, was such a champion of JD's political talents and his future. And if JD does decide to do that, certainly Charlie would cheer him on from the hereafter. But, yeah, Charlie has a lot of faith in JD Vance.

[Blake Neff]

I always loved his frankness on just topics like that. In the 2024 primaries, he would just come out and he's like, well, I promised Trump that if he ran again in 24, I would support him. So that was that. I made a promise.

[Andrew]

And if JD chooses to do that, then God bless him and I would be here to. To cheer him on. I'm gonna play one clip and then, Tucker, you're gonna take us home. Okay, so play cut two. This is Charlie talking about his lovely wife, Erica.

[Erica Kirk]

My wife is the best person ever, and she's a patriot and she's a believer. And we don't want to have to be accountable to God when this life passes. And he asks, why did you not trust in me and not fight evil? Because we as Christians are called to fight evil. It's one of the less lesser known. So Scriptures, Psalm 97:10. For those of you that love God, you must hate evil.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yep.

[Andrew]

Amen.

[Erica Kirk]

And again, everyone is called to something different in the body of Christ. Some people are called to heal the sick. Some people are called to mend broken marriages. Some people are called to do outright hot gospel teaching. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth.

[Andrew]

That's it.

[Tucker Carlson]

Who has that clarity of purpose, you know, at that age? It's such a rare gift, and I think it is a gift. It's not detracting from the choices that he made, but, like, he knew what his purpose on this earth was. He worked tirelessly to fulfill that tirelessly I can't overstate that as someone with a similar gig. Like, I've never seen a man work harder and with greater self sacrifice, with greater self discipline. And it all flowed from his belief that this is not pointless. We are. There's a race that we have to run. And he. I mean, he. He left us in mid stride. I thought that that night. And I was heartbroken and struggling even now to control myself. Excuse me, but I had that image that day I was on a plane when it happened, of him going like that, leaving this earth in that position in mid stride. And that is as tragic and overwhelming as it is. That is such a gift. Like, may that be the end of my life, too, and all of our lives to leave in midst of purpose, in midst of forward motion. You know, very few people get that, and, you know, in this case at 31, it's unimaginable. However, that is something that I know that I want, and I think that every person who thinks about it wants that too. And so I'm grateful for that.

[Andrew]

Well, you know, you have. You have a special place in the Turning Point family, Tucker. I know you know that you have, you had a special place in Charlie's heart. And I just want to address one thing before we go here. We've got like two, two and a half minutes left that there was pressure put on Charlie, you know, about you appearing at Turning Point.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, you think?

[Blake Neff]

And he's such a skin about it, so he's just like, oh, you're putting pressure on me. So I've got, I've got to double down.

[Andrew]

He was like, you know, some of the, Some of the funny text messages that we found since then, he goes, oh, they don't want me to have Tucker. Oh, maybe I'll have him speak twice, you know, And. And he just loved you. Yeah, he just loved you. And there was, you know, and that was the hardest thing to explain to people that, you know, maybe didn't like your views on foreign policy or whatever.

[Tucker Carlson]

Didn't like my views on.

[Andrew]

I'm trying to be diplomatic here, Tugger. Embrace it, embrace it, embrace it. But I just, you know, Charlie, this was the hardest thing to explain is that, like, guys, you don't understand, like, Charlie's mission is three steps down. He's keeping a coalition together. He's keeping friends together, he's keeping networks together. He's a statesman, and he's not going to knee jerk and be morally blackmailed by anybody. And if you do it, he will double down. And you saw it in that clip. My mission is to confront evil.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, yes.

[Andrew]

And to proclaim the truth wherever it is. And I would just tell people, listen, you might think one thing, fine. But Charlie and Tucker are deeply, deeply, on a very personal level, friends. And Charlie is loyal.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, yeah.

[Andrew]

And if you go down this route, don't be surprised when you have Tucker having three speeches on three different nights at amfest. You know, like, when I was a.

[Tucker Carlson]

Kid, I drove my. In high school, I drove my car into a white pine in Maine going about 40. And I remember thinking, it totaled the car. And I remember thinking, wow, the tree just doesn't move. It doesn't matter how hard you hit it. And that was Charlie. He was just a towering white pine man. He was just not. It didn't matter how hard you hit him. Just wasn't moving. There's few things I respect more than that.

[Andrew]

Well, Tucker, it's been a pleasure. One of my favorite shows, and I think it was so fitting that you capped off the week. And I know you're going to be speaking at his celebration about Jesus, not.

[Tucker Carlson]

Politics, to be clear. And I'm so glad that we could take some time to talk about Jesus, not politics, because that's the whole point.

[Andrew]

Well, it's funny. When I first started being around you, the way you would talk about faith was much more reticent and reserved. And Charlie has made a convert out of you, and you are proclaiming the truth as well as any preacher I've ever heard. So thank you.

[Tucker Carlson]

Thank you, Carlson.

[Andrew]

May God bless you.

[Tucker Carlson]

God bless you.

[Andrew]

May God bless the reach of your word.

[Tucker Carlson]

Thank you.

[Andrew]

Thanks so much. Talk to you soon.