← The Charlie Kirk Show
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- [00:00]
A
Hey, everybody. On the special Sunday episode of the Charlie Kirk Show, Dr. Sebastian Gorka in person at the Turning Point USA Student Action Summit. Email us your questions. Freedom@charliekirk.com if you want to support us, it's charliekirk.com support. Dr. Gorka is here. Buckle up. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
- [00:20]
B
I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks. I want to thank Charlie.
- [00:28]
A
He's an incredible guy.
- [00:29]
B
His spirit, his love of this country.
- [00:31]
A
He's done an amazing job job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are gonna fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Look, it's Christmas season, and a lot of you guys are emailing us. Freedom. Charliekirk.com how do I give back this Christmas season? Look, I know it's been a tough year, but those of us that are Christians, we are called to help and to assist regardless of the circumstances around us. Whether we had a blessed year or a tough year, it's time to step up and do something. I think we all know that. That's why we are partnering with Angel Tree. Angel Tree is great. They help kids whose parents are in prison. It's not even about the fact of what their parents did. It's the fact that the kids are alone. And the kids, if they do not hear from their parents, they're more likely to also get involved in crime in the future. So let's really communicate the love of Jesus Christ with a personalized note from their dad and an access to a Bible in either Spanish or English. And that's what the Fellowship Angel Tree program does. Last year, the Angel Tree program blessed over 300,000 children of prisoners all across America. What's so cool is that if you give directly, it doesn't go to overhead or all that stuff. It goes straight to the kid, especially this Christmas season. And so let's just keep it easy. Just go to charliekirk.com there's a banner on the top of it, charliekirk.com, and we are getting behind it. We're donating a little bit of money from the Charlie Kirk show to Angel Tree because we really believe in what they're doing. There's an Angel Tree banner there on charliekirk.com, you guys can check it out and support what we are doing. And I think that's really important because for a gift of $220, you can bless 10 children of prisoners with a personalized Christmas present and a personal note from their incarcerated parent. Plus, every Angel Tree family is also given access to free, easy to read copy of the Bible in English or Spanish. So check it out@charliekirk.com, very, very important. Thank you guys so much for that. Hey, everybody. Welcome to this very special episode of the Charlie Kirk show with my friend and fellow Salem radio network host, Dr. Gorka. Welcome.
- [02:45]
B
Thank you kindly. Yes, indeed. And we're so excited to have you on what we call the Salem faculty. So that's huge. Huge for us. But let me start by saying congratulations on your engagement.
- [02:56]
A
Thank you.
- [02:56]
B
And congratulations on yesterday. Incredible, incredible gala you've had this week and the fundraising. And most important of all, I'm going to say it again for the record. Congratulations on running the most influential cultural institution in America.
- [03:12]
A
Well, that's. That's a big. That's a big.
- [03:14]
B
It's a fact. It's just a empirical statement of fact.
- [03:17]
A
Thank you. Well, that means a lot, especially coming from you. And you understand the importance of fighting this culture war. And as we're recording this, you're about to go speak to our thousands of young people. We'll see how many of them they let into the room. That's a county problem. But I want to talk a little bit about where are we as a party, if we even have a party anymore as a country? A lot of people are coming up to me in this moment, and I sense a lot of confusion. I think that is the predominant word. Like, I just get a lot of people say, well, what next? Is Trump going to serve another term, is he not? Can you help make some clarity out of this confusion?
- [03:59]
B
I can try. First thing I'll do is I'll give you a caveat emptor kind of warning. If anybody tells you, and I don't care who it is, an anonymous posting on social media or your best buddy, that they know what's going to happen in the next month, they're lying to you or they're delusional. I worked for the president when he was plain old Mr. Trump. I worked with him in the White House as his strategist. He's appointed me to one of his DOD boards. You've been appointed to his commission. Congratulations. I don't know what's going to happen. He is the most powerful man in the world. But I'll be very clear about this, he is one man. All I will say is, is stop it with the crazy phantasmagorical conspiracy theories. He's going to declare martial law. The Dominion machines are now being sequestered. There's thousands of sealed indictments. Slow down, take a deep breath and listen to people you can trust. I will tell you the following. Number one. The real date that matters is January 18th. January 6th. Physically, it's like something out of the 1800s. The Electoral College ballots will be transported in a box to a special joint session of Congress. There, the ballots must be counted by the President of the Senate, who is the incumbent, Vice President Mike Pence. However, the Constitution permits, because it is the final authority on federal positions, federal elections, that every congressman and every senator can choose to not search certify the individual votes. If there's one senator, one congressman who says I disagree, they get two hours to debate the problems with that specific state or county and then a vote of the whole Congress has to be taken as such. The only date that really matters is January 18th. Do we have a final result of 270 electoral college mandate votes for any candidate? If we don't, what happens happened twice before. Thomas Jefferson is one of them. We have a contingent election whereby the House of Representatives votes on who the President will be and the Vice President is chosen by the Senate. These are not Sebastian Gorkha's opinions. These are the constitutional potential scenarios. Let me qualify them thusly. It is not a simple vote of the membership of the Congress. It is a one vote per state vote. Right now the GOP has the majority, 27 to 22, I believe is the current number. Therefore, in theory, and this is, you know, absolutely constitutional, the President of the United States could be re elected to a second term if that happens. Here is my input, my subjective input. The fact that we are, what, December 19, December 20. And only one Congressman, Mo Brooks, who was on my show last week, has said he is prepared to block or delay the certification of the Electoral College vote. And not one Senator. Even Rand Paul, who gave an amazing speech here at the gala in a very safe environment with a conservative audience. Even Rand Paul, who said the election was stolen, wasn't prepared to be that second Senator means we are lacking the minimum requirement for that delay to occur. But it can occur. The more problematic issue is finding the majority of state conservative states to back the decertification, if you will, of the election and to have the President reelected. So I will say to everyone, never give up hope. I chose this country because one of the characteristics of America is that we are eternal optimists. We never give in, we never give up. But I will say the President has not been given the due backing, the support of the institutional establishment. When I was in the White House, after I left the White House, I said, and I will say it again, Donald Trump became president despite the gop, not thanks to the gop. And I don't wanna get you in trouble, so you can just edit it freely. You can edit. No, you can put it all on me. Ronan McDaniel may be great at fundraising, but the idea that we didn't know the Democrats were going to steal this election is of course absurd. And the idea that when they declared we're going mail out 80 million unbidden mail in ballots, the idea that we didn't post 10,000 observers with army cots and sleeping bags in every single election center in America nine months ago is an outrage and is an abnegation of the responsibility of the gop. We knew they were going to steal it. And crying about them putting up cardboard in the windows after the vote is asinine and absurd. So this needn't have happened. And the fact that in the four battleground states where they clearly stopped counting because the President was winning, delayed counting until they could manufacture ballots and then started the counting again and flipped the results, the fact that those occurred in Metropolis in large conurbations that were in states with GOP controlled state houses is likewise a travesty that we did nothing to prevent this outrage. And I apologize for the long answer, but there's so much garbage swilling out there in the Internet.
- [09:37]
A
That's what it's about. Podcasting, you can go as long as you want.
- [09:39]
B
And so this is the constitutional potential scenarios, but also the vacuum of. I'll say this on my show, America First. In the last nine months, I've realized I don't care what your issue is. I don't care whether it's pro life, building the wall, Second Amendment, big tech, and First Amendment rights. There's only one thing we lack in America that it is sufficient. Courage. Courage. The key virtue that makes the other virtues possible is the thing that stymies us the most from being the America we should be.
- [10:16]
A
So I'll go a step further. You were warning about the mail in ballot nonsense. You and I did many Salem Radio Network town halls. I remember in particular one in Los Angeles and Florida. And you and I agreed completely. But you were very insistent that President Trump will win. But. But the unknown are all these Ballots being sent all over the place. Dr. Gorka, I feel as if I'm living through one of the most frustrating political moments in American history. Cause we identified the problem, we talked about the problem, we said what needs to be fixed, yet no one did anything. How's that possible?
- [10:47]
B
Yeah, let me be very explicit for the record, again, I don't need thousands. I mean, God bless Rudy Giuliani, Jenna Ellis, Joe diGenova, Victoria Tanzing, the president's legal team, who are a tiny. I feel like I'm watching a version of when we walked into the White House on January 21st after the election. This merry band of insurgents in the middle of this swamp. I see this tiny group of lawyers fighting the good fight with Commissioner Bernie Kerrick. And they have to do all that. They have to get the affidavits, they have to show the video from the suitcases in Georgia. But at the end of the day, I don't need any evidence. Nobody needs evidence that it was stolen. Donald Trump gained the most votes of any president in American history. He garnered at least 13 million more votes than he did four years ago, despite four years of calumny and libel, calling him a Islamophobe, a misogynist, a white supremacist Nazi. He got 13 million more votes despite that. And we are supposed to believe that a cognitively challenged, decrepit machine politician of 47 years hiding in his basement got more votes than the first black American president? That's the evidence that this was stolen. To your point of you and I and others, you know, rang the bell that there is a massive election fraud coming down the pike and nothing happened. I'm not dodging the question. It circles back to courage. All of this could have been solved. Every state house in America could have said, no, Mr. Governor, no, Mr. State Secretary, no, Mr. Local election official, you are not permitted to mail out those ballots. No. You are not permitted to count ballots without a postmark. No. You are not permitted to wait six days for ballots to arrive after the end of the election at midnight. All of that could have happened. It didn't happen. Why? Because we have cowards. We have cowards in the establishment right down to local, state, and county level.
- [13:02]
A
So this is a small thing, but it's actually, I think, an indication of a bigger thing. So you know where Brian Kemp was a couple days ago?
- [13:10]
B
Tell me.
- [13:11]
A
The White House Christmas party.
- [13:13]
B
Wow. Not only was Brian Kemp at the White House Christmas party, a friend of mine, and I'm not gonna mention his name, but you can work it out who has the only morning, the only radio show out of D.C. in the morning that is nationally syndicated. And he's a very good friend of mine. I had dinner with him a week ago and he just, he didn't, his wife said, and she was very angry. She said, my husband is the only conservative radio host in D.C. and we have not received an invitation to the White House Christmas for four years running. Now, I'm not here to criticize the President and his team, but I'll tell you what happened when we walked into the White House and I don't think it's changed. When we walked into the White House, it truly was a merry band of insurgents. And there maybe were with me, Steve and a few others, there were maybe less than 20 people in senior positions. So I mean DAP or AP, so I mean Deputy Assistant to the President or Assistant to the President. There were maybe 15, 16 who were senior positions and loyal to not the President but loyal to the MAGA agenda. You wrote the book MAGA Doctrine. It's not about a man, it's about the forgotten men and women. So there may be 15 or 16 of us. And then what? And it's not an exaggeration. Then there were dozens and dozens of 21 year olds who had run the front office and then nothing. And what happened in the meantime? The vacuum, the massive chasm between the handful of people who are loyal to the vision and understood why this non politician won. And the kids at the bottom were filled with what over the next four years? Bushies and never Trumpers. The day I realized that a senior political appointee in the press office hated the President, that was when I realized you've willingly taken a political we, the technical term, are politically commissioned officers of the President. That is a position of trust. You get a big commissioning letter signed by the Commander in chief and this person accepted that job as a political appointee whilst he hated the President and stayed there for three years. Charlie, that's the problem. You know, whatever happens on January 20th, the reason you will remain and Turning Point will remain the most important institution in America is because you are building the bench that nobody. And I'm not here to chastise people by name. The whole conservative movement failed to build a bench for about 40 years. We have big names who fund Turning Point USA and all kinds of things across America who literally have burnt billions of dollars in the last 40 years with another full page ad in the Washington Times. That means nothing. Funding two sides of the same issue without realizing they're Funding both sides of the same issue. And we didn't build a bench. Charlie, you are g an inkling of how we build that bench. And this is if, God willing, he gets a second term, the biggest problem will be who's gonna run the administration. There's 4,000 political appointees. We don't have 4,000 patriots who are prepared to go into the swamp. Because what happens when you go into the swamp? They destroy you.
- [16:54]
A
I've been there and I can say this. Two thoughts. The first, the Brian Kemp example. If there were people that were loyal to the President, it would have been a top down order. That not just Brian Kemp and his family's not invited to the White House Christmas party. That he gets a clear uninvitation.
- [17:10]
B
Yes.
- [17:10]
A
And it's well known publicly. And if he dares to show up, they say, sir, you're not allowed on White House grounds. Instead, Brian Kemp is smirking and smiling at the White House Christmas party on Twitter a couple days ago. And it might have been an oversight. Okay, but think about how many levels of command of people that saw Brian Kemp walk by and no one thought to say why is he here? What's going on here? He had to get check in at the security gate. You know, it's not an easy thing. And from the personnel side, I was very much involved. I tried to get some of our turning point people in and we had some successes. But I can tell you that personnel is policy.
- [17:48]
B
Yes.
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A
And Morton Blackwell talks about this quite a lot. And God bless Morton, he's one of the good guys. And if you're not able to actually implement faithful and loyal people, then you're actually not going to be able to properly staff these institutions. And I think that's part of where people have to really focus moving forward is regardless how this thing shakes out, is if we do not have the human beings, the beating hearts to fight this war, but you got a bunch of multi billion dollar endowments or whatever, then what exactly do you have?
- [18:20]
B
It's not. So let's be clear. Let's identify the pieces of this jigsaw puzzle that has only a couple of pieces in it. This isn't one of the, you know, your Christmas grandma's gift of a thousand pieces. There's about two or three pieces. Number one is personnel. It's a cliche, but it's one of the true cliches. But personal is policy. Secondly, you know this, I know this. But I don't think those who voted for Donald Trump understand this. The establishment conservative movement either thinks that he is an anomaly who will disappear. And economic nationalism isn't real and is not required and everything will snap back to the way it was. Or these are individuals who can't even think in terms of forgotten men and women who for them, it doesn't cross the transom of their mind. Why Hillbilly Elegy is the reason Donald Trump got elected. And let's be clear here, J.D. vance is no Trump supporter. I think he's getting closer to understanding it. I don't read autobiographies, but thanks to Steve Bannon, I read Hillbilly Elegy over Thanksgiving weekend. And that's when I realized when you. When both sides of the political divide for 50 years decide it's okay to. To dismantle Middle America and export those jobs to China and import the fentanyl. That's why you get Donald Trump. Not because Donald Trump was ripe for it, but because America said enough with both sides of the aisle. And the political elite on our side to this day has no comprehension of. What is Gorka talking about? Hillbilly elegy.
- [20:15]
A
It's on Netflix now.
- [20:16]
B
They made Allegedly movie or a TV show or something. A movie, yeah. So here's our third piece of the jigsaw puzzle. And this is the thing that excited me the most. You're a big picture thinker. I love strategy and history. How is it that for four years, not one entity. I love. The guys@americangreatness.com I love. There's a few sites out there that try to do this, but there's been no national push to define what is it to me to say I am a conservative in the 21st century. How do we. Reagan did this. When Reagan won, there was this organic seeding of thought, of think tanks, of debate, of publications from human events to national interest, on and on and on. In the last four years, it's like, oh, the weird guy won the election. Don't worry, he'll leave in a few years and it's all gonna snap back. No, it's not. Politics is whether it's Modi in India, whether it's Brexit in the uk this is the global trend. But the GOP has no idea.
- [21:27]
A
Well, it's because the incentive structures are to stop it, though. It's the capital flows are in the favor of stopping Donald Trump. Where Donald Trump would bring value and higher and rising wages to Middle America. It actually might mean compromising government contracts for some corporation that is funding a lot of the intellectual material that might
- [21:46]
B
be or Making it harder for American businesses to do business with a communist dictatorship like China that has labor camps.
- [21:52]
A
Yeah. It's just China happens to be the. It happens to be the economic multiplier for not very skilled business people that have no patriotic underpinning.
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B
I mean, you can't even think in terms of what the damage they are doing to America.
- [22:07]
A
No, but it's. Exactly. And it doesn't take a lot of skill to go heartlessly to a factory in Fort Wayne, Indiana, announce that it's being closed, and move those jobs to Wuhan. They make it really easy. And all of a sudden you close that market or you make it harder in that market, you get very angry. CEOs. And here's the one thing. They really hated Trump. Not because of his style and all that. They use that to message to people that don't think they hated him because he was a threat to the capital flows to the ruling class.
- [22:36]
B
Let's be clear about why Donald Trump. And this is something I'm working on right now, I'm writing a piece on why they had to destroy him. They had to destroy him very simply because literally nobody owns him. Not Big Pharma. I mean, look at. Have you ever. Could you imagine before Donald Trump, a president talking about Big Pharma, the way he talks publicly about Big Pharma.
- [23:01]
A
It used to be a Michael Moore fringe thing.
- [23:02]
B
Right. About how evil, how they, quote, screw Americans.
- [23:07]
A
He's right.
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B
He's right.
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A
Right.
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B
No, that's the whole point. He's right. But it was anathema to us to expect a president to do that. So whether it's Big Tech, whether it's Big Pharma, whether it's the unions, nobody owns this man. Therefore, from. It's a circular firing squad from all sides, he must be destroyed.
- [23:26]
A
So I want to ask you about one of those because I think we actually might find something. I don't know if we disagree, but you and I talked about this briefly on radio and I wanted to get into it. It's a big tech issue.
- [23:33]
B
Yes.
- [23:35]
A
So I can't remember really where we didn't completely align, but I said something of the sense that we need a digital bill of rights or we need some form of a breakup of these covenants.
- [23:46]
B
I used a line with you that I got from a caller that made me stop and has sunk in my mind. And this is the line I used with you. And we could talk about it. I don't have any special knowledge. We were talking about breaking them up. And a caller to America first said, well, Dr. G, why would breaking Facebook up into 100 little Facebooks, why would that result in any conservative Facebooks? You just have 100 liberal Facebooks. Why would you have a correction? And it's a very interesting concept, right, Baby bell? There's no political element of whether your phone, you know, is run by one national company or by one that covers three counties. But when the entity you're breaking up is, by dint of its essence, political, which is Facebook, which is YouTube, which is Google, where would the corrective come from? And it's an interesting question.
- [24:43]
A
And I think it's less clear. I think the driving motivation for me and for other people is stunning that
- [24:49]
B
this guy actually listens to conversations and then can recreate them six months later. This is like. This is why you have the podcast. You have. Sorry.
- [24:58]
A
Thank you. No, it's okay.
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B
It's great.
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A
And so. No, I think the driving motivation for me, though, is we must stop their exponential growth at almost all costs.
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B
And I think. And I have.
- [25:09]
A
No, that's my driving motivation.
- [25:11]
B
Oh, totally. But my answer is, first things first. The supreme court decision from 1972 or 74 that basically made libel impossible in America has to be the New York Times decision. The idea that when somebody lies about you, you can't. You have zero recourse, unless you can prove in a court of law that they knew it was a lie when they published it. Nobody. We're not Vulcans. We can't read people's minds. So this is absurd. We need British libel laws where if you cross the line and you're the platform, you will be crushed with a weight of a 500.
- [25:48]
A
I was going to say. I actually think we could learn from the Brits on this.
- [25:50]
B
So libel laws. And also this. What is it? Section 230 to the 230 Communications Act. Yeah, that has to be rescinded yesterday.
- [25:59]
A
And it was. It wasn't never even meant for. So. So just what people understand. This was in 1996, the Internet was not even two years old. Yeah. And so it was actually originally meant for telecom companies who were talking about creating not what social media is, but it was. They were thinking about creating like chat discussion areas.
- [26:19]
B
My space or for TV channels.
- [26:21]
A
Yeah, right. And it was in a very esoteric, very theoretical way, I guess, where my. Also my other concern, though is, is what's happening with these tech companies. And I have a whole theory, we have a whole thesis, and we built this out on the Charlie Kirk show that the true power source in our country is Menlo park in San Francisco. It's not Washington.
- [26:40]
B
Absolutely.
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A
It's where Eric Swalwell, Kamala Harris, Nancy Pelosi, Zuckerberg, you really look at who's in charge.
- [26:46]
B
It's billionaires, it's the San Francisco people, it's billionaires. And somebody made this point to me last week who, who never really understood what it takes to build wealth.
- [26:56]
A
That's right.
- [26:57]
B
It just literally fell into their laps. Mark Zuckerberg, you know, you can't compare him to a Carnegie or a Mellon,
- [27:06]
A
J.P. morgan or Rockefeller.
- [27:08]
B
The earned wealth, when you earn your wealth and it doesn't fall on your lap because of some tech innovation. Let me share this story with. So if you're not familiar, one of the biggest problems you face, and we all face in America is the misunderstanding the younger generations have of what is capitalism, what real capitalism is. And this idea that capitalism is rampant profit acquisition. Incorrect. If you read Bastiat, if you read Michael Novak, then you really understand that capitalism's inherent core is a moral compass. And let me share this personal example. So my wife's family, until recently, owned the oldest family owned steel company in America. They built the cast iron girders that the first skyscrapers in New York were built with. And because she's a woman of letters, her brother, who was president of the company about five years ago, commissioned her to write the history. So the history book on Cornell Ironworks. She sat down for a whole year research and he gave her access to all the corporate filings of the, you know, the corporate archive. And she went back to these massive ledgers, these, you know, these huge table sized ledgers from the 18th century. And she went through them and she finds in the early twentieth century, after the Wall street crash hit, for six years, her great, great, great grandfather took no wage as president of Cornell Ironworks, so he could pump his wage back in to pay the people who weren't building the girders for the skyscrapers because nobody was commissioning them. Why did he do that? Because he felt as the creator of that company, these people had built something with him and he was morally bound to help them feed their children for the next six years. That's free market capitalism informed by a moral compass. What children have been taught for 40 years is, no, it's just rampant greed till next quarter.
- [29:18]
A
And even if you take the criticism, it was also in his self interest to do that because eventually he was going to turn a profit.
- [29:25]
B
Exactly.
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A
By delayed gratification.
- [29:27]
B
Right. Instead of the next quarter.
- [29:29]
A
That's Right.
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B
How many people can he rape in terms of profits?
- [29:32]
A
And we don't make, we don't build companies like that anymore. Which is the other issue is that there's nothing durable. Yeah. And, and so the, the Zuckerberg Menlo park people, they actually don't create companies of hardware, things you can touch or, and not to say that there's not some ingenuity or breakthrough in Google, but a lot of it is just ephemeral. Yeah, it's surveillance capitalism, basically.
- [29:52]
B
It's, that's a great phrase.
- [29:53]
A
It's how you can monitor people's behavior.
- [29:56]
B
Well, not only that, I mean I didn't come up with this and this is, this is not conventional wisdom, but it's, it's, it's turning your alleged customer into the product. That's exactly, that's all they've done. I mean, and what we agree to is asinine. I mean every, you get the update on your iPhone, nobody reads it, it's 20 pages of, you know, you are the product and you say agree to terms.
- [30:16]
A
So I guess my question is what would you be? What do you think is the correct course of action against these? We agree on the problem. Yeah. They have too much power, they have too much influence and they're all very, very non compatible with American, I think rescind 230.
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B
230. Libel. It's going to take 10, it's going to take 5 to 10 years. Libel law reform in the United States. And then lastly, I think a forced monopoly, cartel breakup.
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A
You do support it? I do.
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B
Oh absolutely. But it's got to be, you know, a real ag bar. It's got to be a real, you know, somebody who comes and says no, this is wrong and breaks it up. Yeah, the idea, think about it. If you get, if you get canceled by Google and you're a content provider, goodbye.
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A
You have no bill of rights.
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B
You've gone bye bye, bye bye.
- [31:02]
A
Your whole livelihood disappears instantaneously.
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B
That's it.
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A
Yeah, I think it's the number one threat to all their freedoms right now. I really do. I mean it would be the equivalent in the early, early 1900s if you had no capacity to protest, run for office, write to your local editor, publish a pamphlet. Yes. If that was all just being suppressed by a group of robber barons, that's basically the.
- [31:25]
B
Imagine if there was one pamphlet publisher.
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A
That's basically where we are.
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B
That's where we are.
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A
But it's even worse. It's the, how you search where the pamphlets.
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B
Yes, right. It's One pamphlet, who owned the libraries. So these are the news agents.
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A
These are portals into something else.
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B
Correct.
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A
And so they, by controlling the portal, they can distort what you're actually looking at. And so they actually customize Google search based on who's searching and where you are.
- [31:49]
B
Do this. And everybody who listens to Charlie is incredibly informed. But if you really want to see the level, the invidious depth of where we are today, and it is beyond, it truly is beyond. As the child of those who escaped communism, it is truly beyond anything that George Orwell, Arthur Koestler or anybody else envisaged. To pick any topic. It truly doesn't matter whether it's, you know, the border, whether it's taxation policy, whether it's Planned Parenthood. Any topic. Any topic. And put the phrase into Google and find out on which page a conservative or a non legacy media article appears.
- [32:31]
A
That's exactly right.
- [32:32]
B
It'll, you know, it'll be maybe depending on the topic, it'll be between page three and page nine, if you're lucky. And by the way, let me just add 90%, more than 90% of Google users never go past page one of a search result. Which means what? They control it. They will give you to see what they want you to see.
- [32:55]
A
And it stunts discovery. So, for example, we reach millions of people at Turning Point. You reach millions of people on radio. I want you to imagine if there's an independent voter who's listening to you driving to work or driving home from work, and they say, huh, border wall. That makes sense. Or Trump. And they type it into Google and then it's like, oh, that Gorka guy's full of crap. Because look at all this stuff. It stunts discovery.
- [33:19]
B
Exactly.
- [33:20]
A
And it prevents potential converts. So what they have is basically the last line of defense before a conversion actually happens. Now, we're still doing plenty of, we're turning plenty of minds, but imagine what the country would look like if you had balanced search in that capacity.
- [33:35]
B
Let me ask you, let me turn the tables on you, because this is something that troubles me greatly. We're so excited to have you at Samble, and for all the demographic reasons that that entails. But talk radio is very specific demo. And you know that podcasting is very different. YouTube is very different. And I'll be talking before Dennis tonight. Dennis Prager, who, like you, has done an incredible service to this nation. Prager, you. What have you found? Because you've been doing this, what, seven years now.
- [34:05]
A
Turning Point. Yeah, eight and a half.
- [34:08]
B
What is, is it the six minute videos? Is it the convince me I'm wrong, you know, at the campus table, what have you has had most penetrative effect in terms of what you just mentioned, the entry of the discussion.
- [34:27]
A
So the most effective content that we have that we produce is real life unfiltered conversations of back and forth that are entertaining issues that people aren't supposed to be talking about.
- [34:42]
B
The forboding topics.
- [34:43]
A
Yeah, exactly. And there's a couple of us kind of in this space that have kind of made names for ourselves doing this. Ben Shapiro, Steven Crowder and myself and maybe Michael Knowles, a couple other people. And just by, just by the space that we're in, we're always running into this nonsense. And then you catalog it. I will say though that the people that are listening to this program, there are hundreds of thousands of people that listen to us every couple days and millions of people a month. They enjoy longer form. And that's where podcast really lives, is longer form, unfiltered conversation, as if they're just kind of listening in. But if I'm trying to really kind of catch the attention of a TikTok teen who's 16 or 17 years old when I'm on campus at University of Oregon and some, let's just say very like it's unknown what gender this person is, just start screaming at me, saying there's 100 genders and I'm able to ask very rational questions. And then what ends up happening is you have kind of the modern day political equivalent of the Roman Colosseum, right, Where everyone's watching who's going to win.
- [35:52]
B
But is it a function? Is what you're doing the Charlie Kirk
- [35:59]
A
destroys and we have tons of that, whatever.
- [36:02]
B
Or are you actually opening somebody to ask the right questions? Can you define, can you divine that?
- [36:09]
A
Yeah, I mean we. You mean like in how we package it?
- [36:12]
B
No, the effect it has on the viewer. Is there any way to measure that?
- [36:16]
A
Yes and no. I can tell you that that has more capacity for conversion than I think people give credit for Good. And the some of it is kind of for the base people that just need to keep being fed and they do, by the way. They need to keep seeing if they have the arguments and all of that. It increases the virality. Because regardless of politics, everyone loves to see a good decimation. Yeah, everyone loves to see a good proper, you know, prosecution of bad ideas. No matter what your politics are, no matter what you, you know, how you think. But I will say that the three to six minute unfiltered I'm on a campus or I'm doing an event and this person has a question, and we have hundreds of millions of views with some of this stuff. It's incredible that the most successful on it, though, is the. They're the one that ask a ridiculous, provocative, insulting question and I give a rational, calm response. Yes, that, that. But. And this is the other thing is that style matters a lot more than substance in the eyes of a viewer. Substance comes with time. Substance. What podcasting is for substance is multiple episodes diving into data and research. Instead, it's the archetype of very, very angry, emotional liberal who really is not well informed, but has a lot of opinions that tries to challenge a conservative worldview that's rational and thoughtful and respectful
- [37:33]
B
and stays in control.
- [37:34]
A
Yeah. And that's very much within what I think has really benefit. Like, it's not just benefited our audience and kind of how we communicate, but it's just the way the world is. It's like we're just capturing everyone's Thanksgiving, right?
- [37:48]
B
Yes.
- [37:49]
A
And so the best content is also relatable content. That's why people. That's where you get humor from. People laugh because things are true, but people also enjoy the content here because they can see themselves in that kind of discussion.
- [38:02]
B
Fabulous. Thank you. That helps me.
- [38:03]
A
Yeah, no, you got it. Yeah. So in closing, before we get on stage, how can people support you? I wish we could talk longer, but.
- [38:10]
B
Well, first things first, I'll just quote, my muse is my wife of nigh on now 24 years. And I'll quote what she said last night after she heard you speak at Mar a Lago. Charlie is doing God's work. And he is doing God's work. So if you are in a position to support him, not just listen to the podcast, you've got to support Turning Point usa. And if you're in his demographic, if you're young, you've got to join, you've got to organize, create that chapter, because that is how we save the republic that we dearly love, which is to this day the greatest nation on. So Charlie's number one, him and his team. For me, I have a daily radio show, America First. It's with Salem Radio. We live stream it on YouTube. We're everywhere. YouTube. We're on rumble, Parlor, Twitter, Facebook, and I've got my website, which is sebgorker.com. that's S E B G O R K A sebgorker.com.
- [39:13]
A
very good. Well, Dr. Gorka, you're gonna give a great speech tonight, I'm sure. And God willing, thanks again for joining the Charlie Kirk Show.
- [39:18]
B
Thank you, Charlie.
- [39:22]
A
Thanks so much for listening everybody. Email us your questions as always, freedom at charliekirk. Com. If you want to get involved with Turning Point USA, go to tpusa.com. thanks so much for listening everybody. More big episodes coming soon. God bless.