We Have a Border Again

Summary

Episode Summary: "We Have a Border Again" – The Charlie Kirk Show

Release Date: March 14, 2025
Host: Charlie Kirk
Guests: Senator Mark Wayne Mullen (Oklahoma)
Podcast Description: Charlie Kirk, founder of Turning Point USA and a prominent conservative voice, delves into America’s most pressing issues with a straightforward, no-nonsense approach. In this episode, Kirk discusses significant developments in U.S. border security, legislative maneuvers in Congress, and fiscal strategies to address national debt.

---

1. Introduction to Border Security Achievements

Time Stamp: [00:00] – [02:40]

Charlie Kirk kicks off the episode by highlighting the remarkable progress made on the southern border under President Trump’s administration. He emphasizes the drastic reduction in illegal border crossings and sets the stage for an in-depth conversation with Senator Mark Wayne Mullen and references James Lankford’s controversial role in border legislation.

---

2. Significant Reduction in Border Crossings

Time Stamp: [02:40] – [07:52]

Kirk presents compelling statistics to showcase the success of Trump’s border policies:

• February Arrests: "US Border Patrol in the month of February arrested 8,300 border jumpers coming into our country in February. 8,300 in an entire month. That is the fewest ever recorded." [06:15]
• Comparison to Biden Era: "A year ago in February, 141,000 people were detained at the border. So we went from 141,000 under Joe Biden to 8,300." [05:55]

He contrasts these figures with the Biden administration’s approach, highlighting the shift from mass detentions and releases into American communities to stricter enforcement and deportations. Kirk underscores that these achievements are a testament to the administration’s willpower and effective policy implementation.

---

3. Critique of James Lankford’s Border Bill

Time Stamp: [07:52] – [15:13]

Kirk sharply criticizes Senator James Lankford for his role in proposing a bipartisan border bill that, in Kirk’s view, would have undermined the progress made:

• Potential Impact: "James Lankford would have allowed 5,000 people a day to come across the southern border... if he had his way, you would have had a rolling average of just 4,999 people a day." [09:45]
• Consequences: "He almost sold out our entire country. That was his motivation." [10:05]

Kirk argues that Lankford’s bill was a betrayal of the voters’ trust and an attempt to dilute national sovereignty. He lauds Senator Mike Johnson for opposing the bill, stating, "You gotta give Mike Johnson credit. It might have been one of the greatest things Mike Johnson ever did as speaker." [14:16]

---

4. The Senate Reconciliation Process and Fiscal Strategies

Time Stamp: [15:13] – [29:20]

In conversation with Senator Mullen, Kirk dives into the complexities of the Senate’s reconciliation process and the broader fiscal strategy to address national debt:

• Current Fiscal Year Challenges: "We're fighting over FY25... we need to cut the umbilical cord from the Biden administration." [17:54]
• Reconciliation Bill Goals: "We could approach a trillion dollars in cuts. I think $2 trillion is going to be tough." [24:48]
• Rescission Strategies: Mullen discusses leveraging rescission to eliminate unauthorized programs and achieve significant cost savings: "We could probably be somewhere around 250 billion to $500 billion in cuts right there." [26:30]

The discussion highlights the administration’s commitment to balancing the budget without resorting to tax increases. Mullen asserts, "Tax increases? Absolutely not. Not on the table." [31:57] He emphasizes the importance of spending cuts and fiscal responsibility, drawing on Reagan and Trump-era economic principles.

---

5. Legislative Hurdles and Future Prospects

Time Stamp: [29:20] – [35:56]

Kirk and Mullen explore the legislative hurdles ahead in passing the reconciliation bill:

• Approval Timeline: "We’re warping towards a fiscal apocalypse... We're probably going to be in July by the time we get it done." [24:35]
• Potential Inclusions: While focused on border security and spending cuts, there's room for additional measures such as immigration reform and establishing a sovereign wealth fund to address long-term debt: "We set up a sovereign wealth fund... specifically to pay off the debt." [34:36]

Mullen outlines the strategic approach to ensure the bill remains focused and effective, avoiding overcomplication by adhering to strict fiscal guidelines.

---

6. Conclusion and Call to Action

Time Stamp: [35:56] – [36:09]

As the episode wraps up, Kirk encourages listeners to stay informed and engaged:

• Stay Connected: "Email us. As always, freedomarliekirk.com thanks so much for listening and God bless." [36:00]
• Trustworthy News Source: "And news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com." [36:10]

He reiterates the importance of celebrating the strides made in border security and maintaining vigilance against policies that could reverse these gains.

---

Notable Quotes

• Charlie Kirk on Border Success:
  "US Border Patrol in the month of February arrested 8,300 border jumpers coming into our country in February. 8,300 in an entire month. That is the fewest ever recorded." [06:15]

• Critique of James Lankford:
  "James Lankford would have allowed 5,000 people a day to come across the southern border... He almost sold out our entire country." [10:05]

• Senator Mullen on Tax Policy:
  "Tax increases? Absolutely not. Not on the table." [31:57]

• Fiscal Responsibility:
  "We set up a sovereign wealth fund... specifically to pay off the debt." [34:36]

---

Key Takeaways

1. Border Security Achievements: Under President Trump, illegal border crossings have significantly decreased, showcasing effective policy measures.
2. Legislative Challenges: Efforts by Senator James Lankford to introduce a bipartisan border bill were met with strong opposition, notably from Senator Mike Johnson, reflecting internal GOP conflicts.
3. Fiscal Strategy: The administration is focused on balancing the budget and reducing national debt through substantial spending cuts and strategic rescissions, without increasing taxes.
4. Future Legislation: Anticipation of a comprehensive reconciliation bill by July, aiming to solidify fiscal responsibility and maintain border security advancements.
5. Call to Action: Emphasis on the importance of public awareness and support for ongoing and future conservative legislative efforts.

---

This episode of The Charlie Kirk Show provides a detailed analysis of the current state of U.S. border security, legislative maneuvers within Congress, and strategies to address the national debt. Through data-driven discussions and strategic critiques, Kirk and Senator Mullen articulate a vision for sustained conservative governance and fiscal responsibility.

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

Hey, everybody, it's the Charlie Kirk show. The remarkable accomplishment of what's happened on our southern border. It's a very important conversation we have here and how James Lankford from Oklahoma almost gave away the entire presidency. Very important. Senator Mark Wayne Mullen in an in depth conversation on what's happening with the bills in Congress. If you have any interest at all whatsoever about what's happening in Congress, this is going to be a very important episode for you. Email us. As always, freedomarliekirk.com subscribe to our podcast. Open up your podcast application and type in Charlie Kirk show, that is Charlie Kirk Show. Become a member today. Members.charliekirk.com that is members.charliekirk. com Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

[James Lankford]

Charlie Kirk's right in the White House, folks.

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

I want to thank Charlie.

[Charlie Kirk]

He's an incredible guy.

[Blake]

His spirit, his love of this country.

[Charlie Kirk]

He's done an amazing job building one.

[Blake]

Of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.

[Charlie Kirk]

We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold [e-mail] that is noblegoldinvestments.com it's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegoldinvestments.com we had an unbelievable event at University of Tennessee yesterday. It might have been our best event ever. Let's show the video here on screen, guys. It was a remarkable time. I mean, it was this amphitheater unlike anything we've ever seen. We had well over 3,000 to 4,000 students there. And it was really something, I gotta be honest. And look, look at the amount of students from all different walks of life. It's one of the biggest crowds we've ever had. And I gotta give University of Tennessee credit, not for anything they've done, but they built a great amphitheater that made our job very easy yesterday. And as a presenter and as a speaker, it was pretty awesome and phenomenal. Yesterday I was asked by somebody, well, Charlie, what has Trump even done so far as president? What has he done in the last 53 days? I don't think we have spent enough time on this program pausing, internalizing, and celebrating the magnitude and the weight of what President Trump has accomplished when it comes to the southern border. People know it, they're hearing it. But what I want to do is emphasize it to such an important degree to you today to show you what President Trump has got on the border is so remarkable and it should never be taken for granted. US Border Patrol in the month of February arrested 8300 border jumpers coming into our country in February. 8300 in an entire month. That is the fewest ever recorded. Let me say that again. That is the fewest ever recorded. And unlike under Joe Biden, they are not being released into the interior of the country. They're not getting a court date. They're being returned to their country of origin. Now, it's very easy to attack President Trump saying, oh, these tariffs are a waste of time. Not so fast, my friend. These tariffs are also largely. And the threat of tariffs are why Mexico is now taking the security of the southern border seriously. A year ago in February, 141,000 people were detained at the border. So we went from 141,000 under Joe Biden to 8,300, 141 to 8.3. A year ago, more than 3,500 people were caught crossing the border who were originally from China. Now it's only 130, and they're all being sent back to China. A year ago, 600 people were caught crossing from Mashitania. That's an impoverished African country where slavery is still very, very common. This month, the total was one. And they were sent back to their country of origin. This was always a question of the will. Washington claimed, including Mitch McConnell and James Lankford, that they needed sweeping new laws to secure the southern border. And they were lying to you. So there's two parts what I want to talk about here. And also, by the way, there is breaking news. President Trump just posted that he had great discussions with Vladimir Putin. I'm gonna allow Blake to pivot and read and analyze that while I break this down. So, Blake, please focus on the Putin news while I continue on this, because I want to. I need to emphasize the border win. There's so much happening, but we have to take a little bit of time and slow down and say, wow, what President Trump has accomplished here, remarkable. This was always a question of whether or not we wanted it. Understand that the biggest questions of our time, whether it be homelessness, whether it be the southern border inflation, is whether or not we Want what is best. Joe Biden did not want a southern border. He wanted a dilution of national sovereignty. He wanted a great replacement of American citizens. He wanted a nonstop flow of illegals into the country for whatever reason. You can guess, you can hypothesize, but we know that he wanted it. We know certainly that is what he wanted. Let's go to some of the tape here. It is so remarkable. This is Bill Melusion and Bill Melusion is going to be out of a job. Bill Melusion was the caravan correspondent. Bill Melusion was the border guy. Bill Melusion is going to have to come work at the Charlie Kirk show. And by the way, we would love to have Bill Melusion. I don't think Fox would want to see him. Fox is doing a great job by the way, especially lately out of this coverage. But Bill Millusian's got to find a new line of work. Maybe Bill Melusion can be the senior Canadian correspondent. There's a lot to cover there. He goes from the border correspondent to the Canadian correspondent. Bill Melusion is a top tier American. 10 out of 10 patriot, phenomenal reporter. But he's going to have to find a new thing to cover now. Of course he does cover a lot of stories, but he became very famous for covering the border. Of course, I'm being lightheartedly sarcastic. Play cut 240 got aways have also completely fallen off a cliff since Trump took office. CBP sources tell us over the last 21 days there have been an average of just 77 got aways per day nationwide. That's down 95.8% from the Biden highs of fiscal year 2023. That's when there were a staggering 1830 got aways on average every single day. I want you to internalize that. Over the last 21 days, there's been an average of only 77 got aways. By the way, it should be zero. We're gonna get to zero. It's going to be Project Zero. That's a 95.8% decrease from Biden highs. Fox reported that the ICE director has now uncovered tens of thousands of border crossings where Biden cooked the books and recorded them as arrests, when in reality they're in your neighborhoods. Play cut 250. Homeland Security officials are accusing the Biden.

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

Administration of misleading the public on border numbers.

[Charlie Kirk]

So by counting migrants that were processed.

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

And released as ICE arrests.

[Charlie Kirk]

That doesn't sound right.

[Bill Melugin]

Those senior leaders with DHS and ICE took time to speak to reporters and they basically accused the Biden administration of what they're calling, quote, cooking the books and lying basically to the American public about how many illegal migrants they actually arrested. The Biden administration reported more than 100,000 arrests in fiscal year 2024. But the senior leaders say the numbers are deceiving. That is because the majority of these arrests are what's called pass through arrests, meaning they pass through ice, then were just released into American communities pending those immigration hearings.

[Charlie Kirk]

The liberation of your country is being televised. The restoration of your sovereignty is happening in real time. President Trump will be criticized every day in the media, but he needs to be heralded and celebrated by every patriot in America because you have a border again. Your sovereignty is coming back to life, and that needs to be repeated on a daily basis, told to your friends, told to your family. We were told that this cannot be solved. We were told that this was an impossibility. We were told that this needed to have a bipartisan bill. We need to put all these people in a room together. Do you know the bipartisan bill that Jim Lankford was pushing? James Lankford would have allowed 5,000 people a day to come across the southern border? Well, 4999. Senator Lankford would have. If he would have got his way and Mitch McConnell would have got his way, they would have put handcuffs on President Trump, who would have inherited this border bill. That is why they did it. They pushed this bill to try to prevent the now border closure that you are living through. It would have codified illegal immigration into law. It would have had permanency for the invasion. And President Trump would have said, I never signed this. And he would have said, well, too bad. You have to live under the 4999 statute. You would have had a rolling average, a rolling new norm of just 4,999 people a day. Here's Joe Biden saying, well, we need a bipartisan border bill, and it goes right onto James Lankford face. And I hope you never forget the treachery of James Lankford. He will be primary and he will be removed. He almost sold out our entire country. That was his motivation play cut268.

[Joe Biden]

In November, my team began serious negotiation with a bipartisan group of senators. The result was a bipartisan bill with the toughest set of border security reforms we've ever seen. Oh, you don't think so? Oh, you don't like that bill, huh? That conservatives got together and said it was a good bill. I'll be darned. That's amazing. That Bipartisan bill would hire 1,500 more security agents and officers. 100 more immigration judges helped tackle the backload of 2 million cases. 4,300 more asylum officers and new policies so they can resolve cases in six months instead of six years.

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

Now.

[Joe Biden]

What are you against?

[Charlie Kirk]

We did not need a bipartisan bill. We needed a new president. And with the new president, we now have a border, a restoration of our country. Praise the Lord, but never forget that if James Lankford would have got his way, none of this would have been made possible. We defeated the regime. President Trump did. If pain is affecting your life, make 2025 the year of feeling good again, the year of moving better, sleeping better, feeling more alive. And do it with Relief Factor. Relief Factor is a daily supplement that fights pain naturally. It doesn't just mask pain temporarily, helps reduce or even eliminate it. Over a million people have turned to Relief Factor. Feel the difference it can make in your Life. Give their three week quick start a try. It's only $19.95, less than a dollar a day, and just takes a phone call. Call 1-800-For relief. That is 1-800-For relief. Remember, every day you feel better is a day you live better. So wherever you're hurting back, neck, joints or muscles, make 2025 the year of feeling good again. Try Relief Factor right now. That is 1-800-for- relief. 1,800-for- relief. This is James Lankford. I can't get off of this. The Putin Trump news is not that breaking, but it is important. We'll get to that. But understand and repeat and commit it to memory and teach it to your children and teach it to your neighbors, that we would be living in a much different reality right now. The reality would be that Trump would say, let's close the border. Sorry. There was a bipartisan bill signed under Joe Biden and James Lankford was the defender, the author and the advocate of trying to neuter Donald Trump. He was trying to cut off Donald Trump's ability to do what the voters wanted him to do. And honestly, credit to Speaker Mike Johnson. I got to give credit where credit's due. We call balls and strikes here on this program. Mike Johnson was a hard no on this border bill and good for him. Remember when everyone said, oh, you know, they want the border to be open? No, no, no. We knew that this bill would have codified 4,999 people coming across the southern border. Congress, which was led by James Lankford on the Republican side, said that 5,000 people a day is a normal amount of traffic at the border. This looked like it could pass. The Senate was getting on board. James Lankford was leading it, and Mike Johnson, to his credit, and his little, tiny, mighty majority nuked it. So you got to give Mike Johnson credit. It might have been one of the greatest things Mike Johnson ever did as speaker. You just gotta always be clear about where things are. What he did was significant. He stood up to James Lankford and this entire team. Here's James Lankford bragging on cable TV about how they wanted to steal Donald Trump's term away from him. Let's play cut 269.

[James Lankford]

Yeah, it's not. Again, it's not gates opening. That's a misunderstanding of the bill itself. It's how many can we process and actually deport. When you raise the standard for people coming across, when you increase the detention beds, when you increase deportation flights, you're not letting people in. And people are thinking about how the Biden administration is running it now. Right now, the Biden administration is allowing, for instance, 1500 people a day just to come to the ports of entry, get a work permit and get released in the country. People coming between ports of entry get what's called a nose to appear and get released in the country. All of that stops. We're focused on how many people can we process quickly and then deport out of the country, not release into the country. It would be absolutely absurd for anyone to be able to propose something to say, we're just going to slow the number of releases. We're focused on how do we actually enforce our border and get us back to zero people actually crossing the border illegally. Every administration has struggled to be able to get the authorities in place, to be able to actually enforce our border. Let's put them in place.

[Charlie Kirk]

And wrong. James Langford, we'll never forget. Trump's not struggling. He didn't need a bill. Trump, you are wrong. You are a liar, you are a fake, you are a fraud. You went on TV and say, well, every administration struggled. Trump right now is not struggling. Trump is hanging out, doing other stuff. He's renaming the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America because we have a border. There's no struggling. Oh, well, every administration struggling. It just took a will, it took a desire, it took willpower to get it done. It did not take some bipartisan committee. And you on TV right there, whatever administration has struggled. No, no, no, no. You only struggle if you don't want it, and we're kicking you out of office. James Langford, I'm gonna say this every month and I am not gonna forget about this one. Like a heat seeking missile. We're coming after him in 2028 and he might wanna run for governor. He's not gonna be able to run for mosquito abatement director in Enid, Oklahoma after this. Cause the great people of Oklahoma are smart, they're wise, they got a great, they're tough. And James Langford is controlled opposition. We would have a wide open border right now if James Lankford would have got his way. Oklahoma Patriots never forget the private student loan debt market totals over $300 billion. Why refi by the way, phenomenal supporters of our campus tour. They just do a Great job. About $45 billion of private student loan debt is labeled as distressed. They provide you with a custom loan payment based on your ability to pay. Why refi does not care what your credit score is. Many clients aren't even able to make the minimum monthly payment on their private student loans when they first contact yrefi. Go to yrefi.com that is yrefy.com call 888 yrefi 34 log on to yrefi.com that IS yrefy.com may not be available in all states because of private student loan debt. So many Americans feel stuck and helpless. They can help you guys get out of debt. They are not a debt settlement company. Instead they are far more sophisticated than that. So they provide you with a custom loan payment if you have private student loan debt. If your brother, your sister, your friend, your aunt, your uncle, you've heard them talk about it recently like oh, I just can't get out of this. I took out this loan. I'm not sure I wanted to. I know a lot of people with private student loan debt. I'm sending all of them the Y refi phenomenal patriots. 10 out of 10 they love America. Go to yrefi.com that is yrefy.com joining us now is a great friend and total patriot from Oklahoma, Senator Mark Wayne Mullen. Senator, thank you for joining the program. What is going on with the cr? Explain it to our audience and how Chuck Schumer caved.

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

Well, so I guess it was earlier this week Schumer said that he wasn't going to give one single Democrat the ability to vote on the cr. He was mean. He was going to go to the shutdown because he said that Republicans doesn't have the vote. Well, obviously because we only have 53. Take Rand Paul off of it. We're at 52, Mitch McConnell, we don't know where he's going to vote at it. So we're probably at 51 where we're at with the CR right now as we speak. We invoke cloture on it at 115 today. Now that means it's a 30 hour window. And if the Democrats fight us on the 30 hour window, they can yield back the time if they want to. If they fight us and we won't be able to vote on it until tomorrow and shut down. All the Democrats have agreed to do it except five, five Democrats. The five Democrats have just have agreed not to yield back to us on this. Are all up for re election. They're all in states that President Trump won. And they're wanting to use this for a fundraising opportunity so they can show their base if they're fighting for a losing cause. Because they can't explain this, Charlie. They can't explain why they're against the criminal. Because mind you, these are the same numbers, the same top line numbers that they voted for in September when Biden was in office, in December when Biden was in office. And the only thing that's really changed now is that Trump's in office. So how do you explain that the American people, that you voted for it twice but now you won't because the only reason is you hate the president that's currently in there.

[Charlie Kirk]

And so talk about how this sets the table then for this one big beautiful reconciliation bill.

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

Yeah. So what we've got to do here, and President Trump and I have spoke about this in length, President Trump is, is dead set on trying to balance the budget. It's going to be very difficult to do that in FY26. So mind you, we're fighting over FY25, which FY25 runs out in September 30th because we're running off a fiscal year. So we go from October 1st to September 30th. We're five and a half months into FY25. Chuck Schumer not one time brought up a single appropriation bill. We had 11 appropriation bills sitting on his desk since July 31st. Six of them pass out a committee with unanimous support, meaning no opposition. And he didn't one time bring it to the floor, which now he's saying that the reason why we're doing the CR is because Republicans lack of leadership. But whatever, what we've got to do is cut the umbilical cord from the Biden administration. It's holding us back there's no way we can get the doge cuts that we need in this fiscal year for FY25. Because before the Biden administration left, they up, they, they, they front loaded all the spending. So basically most of the money for FY25 has already been spent. This is why you saw in the Doge act, they went in and they called back $80 billion from, from FEMA and they're going to, they're going through these, these, these programs and they're getting the money back because otherwise we're going to run out of money. I mean, they literally spent all the money in January. So with that, that means that we can't start enacting doge cuts until we start on FY26. So we've got a cut, a clean cut. We need to say goodbye, play the song, hey, hey, hey, Goodbye, whatever that song is, and, and get.

[Charlie Kirk]

There you go.

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

Yeah, there you go. And get FY25 behind us to the Biden administration and move on to FY26. We start working on it now. Think about this. We're already into March. We'll start working on FY26 appropriations literally Monday. I mean, we'll start working on them Monday because we need to have all 12 appropriation bills. Unless we're going to do another CR, which none of us want to do that, we got to have all 12 appropriation bills out of the committees, out of the appropriation committee, which I sat on, and to the floor no later than July 31st. Now this is this, the House has to do the same thing. And then we got to start working out our differences so we can avoid conference in most of these, the bills, because they're going to be different bills. But if we don't have them, if we don't have them done by the time we get back from our August recess, we're going to run into a CR. So the more we waste on FY25, I know this is getting wonky. The more we waste on FY25, the less likely we are to get FY26 appropriation done and get started with President Trump's agenda.

[Charlie Kirk]

So all that to say that is a little wonky, but I think I was tracking. Do you think we'll get a big beautiful bill before July 4th?

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

Well, so, yeah, that's another thing. People are confused by this. We got the budget, we got to do which sets of top line numbers budget is, is, is not reconciliation. Budget just simply sets the top line numbers for each committee to have to fall within. So We've got the budget from the House. We still have got to get our budget done in the Senate. And the difference that we're fighting on is current tax policy or current tax law. So what that means is the current taxes that we're playing in right now. Once again, this is difficult, but your listening audience is very educated on politics. I believe they're following right now. What we're working on is underneath the current tax policy that President Trump put in place. But the law says it expires the end of this year. And if we allow it to expire the way the CBO scores it, the Congressional Budget Office says that we have to count that as a deficit once it expires at $4 trillion. What the House has got it written as, they have their, their budget wrote on current tax law. It should be current tax policy. That way we don't have to count as a policy or as a. As a debt. Either way, we have to work those differences out before we can even start reconciliation. So once we get the budget done, then we can start reconciliation. And we still have FY26, which is why we've got to get rid of one more off our plate. FY25. The Biden administration left us in a mess. They didn't do one single thing. So we can get one thing off our plate. We will be focusing on FY26 at the same time, getting the budget done and getting one big, beautiful bill for President Trump. He's made. He's made it very clear that's what he wants.

[Charlie Kirk]

When do you think? By when, though? Just. Just to what I would. If you were.

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

I think we're behind now. We wanted to get it done by Memorial Weekend. I don't think we can do that. I think we're probably going to be in July by the time we get it done. There's a chance it could all come together that quick. Now that we're not having to deal with this CR anymore, there's a. There's a chance it can get done, but I think realistically, it's going to be July.

[Charlie Kirk]

So what ingredients can we expect in this big, beautiful bill? I know we're going to get more border funding. And can we also get spending cuts in this big, beautiful bill, or is this a supplemental?

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

We can, we can get some. A lot of cuts in there. I believe we could. We could approach a trillion dollars in cuts. I think $2 trillion is going to be tough.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, hold on. I don't want to do the D.C. thing. Is that a trillion A year or trillion over 10 years.

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

It, it'd be, it'd be a trillion over this physical year.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, that's big.

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

Yeah. So, but that would be, that'd be tough to do. But I'm saying it's possible. And that'd be. When I say the fiscal year, it'd be basically for the two year of Congress. So 119th Congress, we'd build it so it's basically two years, but it'd be the physical year of FY26. It's wonky math only works in government. But the, the, the real problem or the real savings we could find is through rescission. Now I know this is something you know about most public, most the public people are just now starting to figure out what rescission is. What's interesting about the rescission and Elon and I were talking about this early last Saturday. I mean he literally called me at 1 o'clock in the morning and we're talking about. I know it's him and President Trump. Two very successful guys don't sleep. Maybe there's something to this. We've, we've got it all wrong. People thinking that you got to have eight hours of sleep because those two guys don't get it. But anyways, we, when you start looking at rescission, I sent the, I sent Elon A2 PDF files with 1500 programs, agencies and departments that are not been reauthorized by Congress and each one of them have a tag attached to them. Essentially the rescission. He could go through each one of these, that these agencies have not been reauthorized, these programs that have not been reauthorized and these departments that have not been reauthorized and give them to Congress one, two or five at a time. In the rescission, we have 45 days to either agree with them or do nothing. If we do nothing, they state they've actually become law. If we actually vote on them and vote them down, then they become law where the next president can't reinstate them. It's a huge cost savings. I'm think I'm, I mean, I, I feel like we could get in, we could probably be somewhere. And this is what Elon and I were talking about. Somewhere around 250 billion to $500 billion in cuts right there. And it's simple, it's very easy for us to do. It's a conversation wrapping. So we can have cuts in that, in the rescission, we can have cuts in and in the reconciliation package and Then you're also going to have an fy.

[Charlie Kirk]

I mean, Senator, I'm not telling you anything you don't know. But there's still PPP money that hasn't been. There's still Covid money that you guys could rescind, correct?

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

Well, that's part of the programs. A lot of these programs that the PPP and the COVID money was never technically authorized by Congress. What we did is we gave the administration a big clump of money and we allowed them to set up these programs that we never authorized. We had them. They actually set up extra departments too that we never authorized. Every single one of those can come out through rescission.

[Charlie Kirk]

So Senator, I want to keep you for another segment here because this is to your credit, very thoughtfully delivered and not just kind of the drive by cable news thing. People, I think people should subscribe to our podcast and re listen to everything the Senator has gone through here because this is really good, meaty stuff. So what role then do the courts play in tying up some of the administration's actions when it comes to spending? Because that's also an ingredient here.

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

So the courts can't tie up anything that goes through the rescission? Nothing. Anything that is outside of rescission? Technically they can, but it's, it's tough for them to make the argument because most of the cuts are coming from unappropriated funds. Because Congress, because we bundle, we don't do line item appropriations. We bundle and give to these agencies. Most of it can be said it's not directly been authorized or, or funded by government through appropriations. If, and so what the, what the courts are saying is, is it has been. It's as it goes through the court system against the Supreme Court, you're going to see more and more of the lower courts being overturned over or being overturned by the Supreme Court because they're in the most case. There's been one case they wasn't because it was actually, actually appropriated. Most of these other cases were not appropriated. It was simply designed and, and put out by OBM by the Biden administration.

[Charlie Kirk]

We are barreling towards a fiscal apocalypse. This is a number to commit to memory. You know this Senator, but for the audience. Every day we are borrowing $2 billion to just pay for the interest on the debt. $2 billion a day. Just go to interest payments. 2 billion a day. That's nearly 700 billion a year. We're almost spending the same on our defense budget than on interest on our debt. Charlie Kirk here. When faced with a threat you might think of lethal force, but consider a less lethal option like Burna to avoid legal issues tied to firearms. As a strong advocate for the right to bear arms, I value diverse defensive options. And Berna offers an effective alternative. Proudly assembled in Fort Wayne, Indiana, Berna's less lethal pistol launchers loaded with tear gas and kinetic ammunition can incapacitate an attacker for up to 40 minutes, allowing you to safely escape or call for help while reducing the risk of severe injury. Burna is about preventing tragedy and preserving life without the consequences of using lethal measures. It's legal in all 50 states, requires no background checks, and over 500,000 units are in the hands of responsible citizens and law enforcement. Berna can be shipped directly to your door. I've personally tested the Berna pistol and can vouch for its effectiveness and it's ease of use. Get 10% off my personally curated bundles by visiting by rna.com Charlie that's by rna.com Charlie okay, everybody, welcome back. I want to play this piece of tape here for Senator mullen. Let's play cut 146.

[Blake]

I think the first thing is the debt issue. We have a very severe supply demand problem. So we think there's debt and people, some people think, oh, we'll handle it because we've handled it so far. I don't think they understand the mechanics of debt. But there's a supply demand problem so that they have to sell a quantity of debt that the world is not going to want to buy. And that's a set of circumstances that is imminent. Okay, that's paramount importance. Then we're going to have to deal. The deficit must go from what will be projected now to be about 7.2% of GDP to about 3% of GDP. Otherwise there will be a supply demand problem. Okay, that's a big deal.

[Charlie Kirk]

Senator, is that possible? Number one? And number two, a more provocative question. Are tax increases at all on the table?

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

Tax increases? Absolutely not. Not on the table. What was, what was said is, is it theoretically possible? Yes. Is it something that we're going to be able to do? Probably not. The reason why we're in this debt is because it takes a whole lot of us to agree on what we're going to cut to get it passed. And when you start cutting, you start paying attention to this. It starts affecting everybody's state. I mean, right now, what Doge is doing, I support a thousand percent, but I'm getting a ton of phone calls every single day because of things that are being cut and because it's Federal employees. I mean, the biggest employer we have in the United States is federal government. Right. And you start talking just generically speaking, 50% of everybody out there, half of everybody out there is either directly or indirectly financially benefiting from some type of federal program. Now you can say, well, I don't get any of those programs. Well, your contract that your company is, is, is working on is paying your salary. So you can keep going down the line. It goes on. So my point is, is that it's, it is possible, but it's not likely. Now, talking about taxes, we're going to send more money to Washington D.C. by raising taxes. Absolutely not. We have proven we can't spend the dollar wisely. You know, I know you know the scripture better than I do. When you start talking about the talents and the servants that got five, four right, one guy went and buried it and one guy spent it wisely. It. We don't, we're the guy that buried it at Washington D.C. and we're not spending it wisely. And it needs to be given back to the people who will spend it. Right. We proved underneath President Trump that Reagan economics still work. When President Trump cut taxes, they were talking about this $10 trillion deficit that he was going to add. What we saw in the very first year was an actual increase into the treasurer department. We were actually on the path, if Covid wouldn't have happened to actually have a balanced budget, which is why President Trump is pushing so hard to have a balanced budget. There is no way underneath the Republican Congress being in the House and Senate, we're going to raise taxes.

[Charlie Kirk]

So Senator, finally, what other little passion projects are you going to try to advocate to be put into this big bill? The border, the taxes will get all the attention. The way this works though, is that there could be a lot of little wins. For example, maybe a repeal of the Johnson amendment. I'd love to see that. Which has been an anti church amendment since Lyndon Baines Johnson. What other little things will you be advocating for a minute remaining?

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

Well, you gotta remember everything's gotta, gotta go within the bird rule and it's gotta be directly related to something financially because it's reconciliation. So we got to be very careful that we don't blow up the whole bill by trying to put too much stuff into it. There's a lot. We're going to have other opportunities as we move forward because we still have the disaster bill we got to put into. We still got to be looking at trying to do immigration reform. There's going to be opportunities for us to do this. And then there's one thing that I have had the privilege of talking with Secretary Bergam about is is setting up this true sovereign wealth fund. And this is stuff that can be put in this bill, by the way. But the sovereign wealth fund that goes after the debt, if we use the resources we have inside the United States, which we have more resources under our feet in the United States than any other country in the world, we just don't utilize it. But we actually set up a sovereign wealth fund like a lot of these Middle east rich countries do. And we instead of us using as a slush fund, but we use it specifically 100% to pay off the debt. We can see where we could get out of debt in uranized lifetime. Now it'll still be our kids carrying it, but there's an opportunity for us to get out of debt in our lifetime underneath President Trump setting it up for future Congresses if they don't screw it up. But who knows, they probably would.

[Charlie Kirk]

Senator, thanks for the time. Best of luck. Excellent explanation. Thank you.

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

Thanks brother.

[Charlie Kirk]

Thanks so much for listening everybody. Email us. As always, freedomarliekirk.com thanks so much for listening and God bless.

[Blake]

For more on many of these stories.

[Charlie Kirk]

And news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.