'We Live in Heroic Times' with Pastors Rick Brown and Rob McCoy

Summary

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The Charlie Kirk Show

Episode: "We Live in Heroic Times"

Guests: Pastor Rick Brown & Pastor Rob McCoy
Date: January 10, 2021

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Episode Overview

In this special Sunday episode, Charlie Kirk sits down with Pastors Rob McCoy and Rick Brown to unpack the cultural and spiritual climate of America following the events at the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021. The trio explores the role of pastors in times of national crisis, the narrative battles facing America, and the urgent call for Christians to engage actively in politics and culture. The tone is frank, urgent, and unapologetic, emphasizing courage, clarity, and the biblical perspective on adversity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Pastors' Political Awakening and Engagement

• Rick Brown’s Journey:
  • Began as an apolitical pastor, focusing solely on preaching (01:11–03:00).
  • Exposure to California’s culture and mission trips with Rob McCoy led to awakening on the importance of civic engagement.
  • Brown admits past reticence:

    “Honestly, now I'm ashamed of myself as a preacher in that sense.” (03:00)

• Gradual Shift Among Pastors:
  • More pastors are awakening to political realities, facing pressure from both congregants and circumstances, though change is slow (04:20).
  • Example: Mike McClure, San Jose pastor, faces over $1 million in fines for keeping his church open during COVID-19 (05:18–06:29).

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2. Firsthand Account of January 6 Events

• Rick Brown in D.C.:
  • He describes the events leading up to and during the Capitol chaos, highlighting the peaceful, diverse crowd at the morning rally (06:34–08:58).
  • Brown notes the shock among attendees when news broke about the Capitol breach, emphasizing that most present were unaware and appalled (09:36–10:29):

    “There was nothing in it that would even indicate that there was anything that would incite.” (08:58)

  • He encountered logistical chaos as transit was shut down, eventually leaving by Uber after failed attempts to get a train out (10:29–11:10).

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3. The Battles of Narrative and Virtue Signaling

• Those Assigning Blame:
  • Rob McCoy shares a text exchange with a friend and fellow pastor of color, discussing pain, conflicting interpretations, and his refusal to take the blame for rioters’ actions (11:11–15:06):

    “To affiliate, connect me or those who stand with me to this horror is what hurts most... I do not condone, support, agree, nor believe the violence and destruction is acceptable...” (14:06)

• Media and Social Division:
  • Discussion on confirmation bias, media framing, and how the left’s narrative paints Trump supporters as a monolithic, dangerous, racist group:

    “All Trump followers are racist... confirmation bias of this pent up narrative...” —Charlie (15:12–15:46)

  • Rick Brown highlights the crowd’s diversity and the nuance missing in national reporting.

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4. The Role of the Church and Christians in Culture and Politics

• Critical Theory and Race:
  • The dangers of tying race and ideology together are discussed as fundamentally “racist” (21:14–21:46):

    “...baked into that assumption is that your race and your ideology actually must be intertwined together, which is... highly racist...” —Charlie (21:45)

• Need for Nuanced Wisdom:
  • Rick Brown encourages recognizing diversity within conservative and Christian movements, rejecting blanket assignments of blame or virtue (18:02–19:20).
• Christian History and Perseverance:
  • The Bible and church history show that heroism and transformation emerge from adversity:

    “Every child that made the difference in the world was born in troublesome times.” —Rick (34:06)

  • Citing Joseph, Moses, David, etc., Brown insists, “Let’s have a dozen kids and change the world.” (34:47–37:21)
• Victim Mentality vs. Christian Worldview:
  • Contrasting modern victimization with biblical hope and agency:

    “But your effort in life makes a difference and you're not a victim. I don't care who you are.” —Rick (40:24)

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5. Media, Technology, and Propaganda

• Instant Information & Narrative Control:
  • The digital age amplifies crises and narrative shaping (“cyborg age”):

    “So we feel like we're progressing, but actually just make the regression easier.” —Charlie (25:53)

• On Propaganda:
  • Rob McCoy cites a quote:

    “The purpose of propaganda is not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate... A society of emasculated liars is easy to control.” (32:16)

  • Both warn of propaganda from both the left and right, and the need for clarity and truth.

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6. Practical Action and Encouragement

• Checklist for Engagement:
  • Kirk and guests discuss creating a series of “boxes to check” for Christians wondering, “What do I do?” (57:08–59:49):

    “Do you know every single school board member personally?... If the answer is no, don’t ask me what should you do.” —Charlie (57:15)

• Restoring the “Third Leg” — Political Involvement:
  • Rick underscores the biblical foundations for not just family and church, but community leadership and government engagement—a “three-legged stool” (53:31–54:28).
• Personal Responsibility & Hope:
  • Pastors and citizens are called to personal responsibility, direct action, and refusal to succumb to apathy or fear (59:57–61:13).

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7. America’s Unique Story and Global Relevance

• Liberty as a “Thermonuclear Weapon”:

  “When you have an informed, prayerful citizenry, then you are able to deal with liberty because liberty is a thermonuclear weapon if you don't know what you're doing.” —Charlie (61:27)

• The American Experiment:
  • The panel reflects on America's founding, “activist Christians,” and how biblical influence built Western civilization (52:13–54:28).
  • The Republic must be maintained by “a moral people”:

    “A republic, if you can keep it.” —Benjamin Franklin quoted (55:48)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Pastoral Courage:

  “Rob has been in this place for a very long time, engaging in his citizenship in a way that, honestly, now I'm ashamed of myself as a preacher in that sense.” —Rick Brown (03:00)

• On Narrative Battles:

  “All Trump followers are racist. ...Pent up narrative of that President Trump... has created a violent movement... do a Timothy McVeigh.” —Charlie (15:12–15:46)

• On the Christian View of Adversity:

  “Every child that made the difference in the world was born in troublesome times... It's heroic times that inspire people to action, not apathy.” —Rick Brown (36:05)

• On Civic Responsibility:

  “You have to have all these checked. If you say, what do I do? ...Do you know every single school board member personally?... If the answer is no, don't ask me what should you do.” —Charlie (57:15)

• On Courage and Fear:

  “Courage is contagious. And so is discouragement and fear. ...What are you bringing to people?” —Rick and Rob (48:06–48:11)

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Select Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:11] – Rick Brown describes his non-political background.
• [05:18] – Mike McClure facing million-dollar fines for keeping church open.
• [07:36] – Rick Brown recounts boots-on-the-ground experience on January 6.
• [11:11] – Rob McCoy reads his exchange on blame, division, and narrative.
• [15:12] – Discussion on dangerous generalizations about Trump supporters.
• [21:14] – Charlie dissects the racism of linking race and ideology.
• [34:06] – Brown argues the Bible produces heroes in times of trouble.
• [47:44] – Deuteronomy 20: fear is contagious and must be rooted out.
• [57:15] – Charlie’s checklist for civic engagement.
• [59:57] – Importance of action and responsibility.
• [61:27] – Liberty as a dangerous tool without preparation.

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Closing Reflections

• The episode ends with a prayer (67:12) for strength, wisdom, and courage, reaffirming the call for peaceful, engaged activism from Christians—emphasizing America’s need for a spiritually robust, civically active church.
• A final encouragement: “We still live in a great country. Let’s do it.” —Charlie (67:51)

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For Listeners

• To connect or engage with the movement:
  • Turning Point USA: tpusa.com
  • Email questions: [e-mail]
  • Support: charliekirk.com/support

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The tone is urgent yet hopeful: this is a call for courage, active citizenship, responsible faith, and unity in truth, regardless of adversity.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, everybody. Happy Sunday. Today on the Charlie Kirk show, we'll be joined with two pastors, Pastor Rob McCoy and Pastor Rick Brown, both from Godspeak. If you want to support our program, it's Advertiser free. It's charliekirk.com support. We get into where do we go from here? What happened in D.C. what does the Bible tell us about what to do in this moment? And so much more. Email us your questions freedomarliekirk.com buckle up, here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

[B]

Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

[C]

I want you to know we are

[A]

lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

[B]

Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy.

[C]

His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.

[A]

We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Hey, everybody. Welcome to this special Sunday episode of the Charlie Kirk Show. Super thrilled to be joined today with my pastor, Rob McCoy and his pastor, Rick Brown. Yeah, we're co pastors, something like that.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Good.

[A]

Great to have you guys on. Rick, you're new to our audience, so please introduce yourself.

[B]

I'm Pastor Rick Brown. I've been a pastor for 31 years and I am hanging out, hanging out with the very exciting Rob McCoy. And because I've been hanging out with him, I am now, I guess I'm not sure what to say.

[A]

Hanging out.

[B]

Yeah, I'm learning, I'm learning. I'm learning from you and, and I'm just excited about being with you guys and what you guys are doing in it for our nation. I mean, it's truly inspiring, you guys. So I know you might get a lot of shots, so it's nice to get one little dink of encouragement.

[C]

You know, he was the atypical pastor in America where, you know, verse by verse, chapter by chapter, book by book, teaching, solid Bible teacher. Watched the church that he was responsible for grow to unbelievable proportions in Idaho and was really apolitical for the most part.

[B]

Personally. I was very political personally. But I'm saying as a minister, I was not political. In our movement, we really learned to, hey, just leave politics out of the pulpit, tell people about Jesus. And, and I very passionately pursued that, that course. And I was in a conservative area, so I also didn't see the need. Yeah, Everywhere. I looked there. And then I went to California and discovered socialism up close. And it. I mean, I was slapped in the face and. Well, Rob slapped me in the face. The culture slapped me.

[C]

I didn't slap you.

[A]

Rob's kind of a pioneer of sorts of.

[B]

He is.

[C]

Well, it was interesting how Rick and I would talk about stuff like that, and he'd look at me. He was very engaging and kind, but he's like, I ain't doing that.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then when. When we kind of saw the writing on the wall, and then our. Our careers have paralleled. We trained under the same folks and. But we've been in different places, but trained under the same people doing the same thing. And then all of a sudden, Rick sees what I'm doing, and he has started the Kingdom X Ministry where he does consulting because he's so good at what he does.

[B]

He's.

[C]

He's an organizer, unlike me, and administrator. And then he started to realize the necessity of it, and he's jumped in fully. And I. I'm just so amazed.

[B]

Yeah, I've been very inspired by Rob. And 10 years ago, we were on a mission trip in Uganda and he challenged me about some political things. Right? Yeah, exactly. Go figure. And. And I just rolled my eyes and I'm like, rob, you know, whatever. And I just. He said, you're going to be like one of those other guys and just stick your head in the sand. And I'm like, okay, that's me. And let's go. We were doing a pastor's conference. Let's just focus on what we're doing. I really, once again, I did not. The encouragement felt really for Rob, and I know it does for a lot of people on deaf ears because they didn't see the peril that we see now that is on the doorstep. But Rob has been in this place for a very long time, engaging in his citizenship in a way that, honestly, now I'm ashamed of myself as a preacher in that sense.

[C]

I feel bad about that.

[B]

No, I mean, it's nothing on you. I'm just. When you get a greater awareness of reality, truth is, you know, the truth hurts. You know, the truth hurts.

[A]

Yeah. So do you see more pastors starting to absolutely. Take. Take notice of this?

[C]

Yeah, we're seeing it not as quick, quickly as we'd like, but, you know, you've got. You've got contending ideas. You got Russell Moore out there doing this stuff, and then Gospel Coalition and, you know, being apolitical and even in the Calvary Movement, the Same thing. And then over here, and it's. We haven't. We haven't organized, but people are being drawn to it because they're looking for answers. Because their congregants are looking for answers.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, these are trying times where people need to know what's going on, and we have to be prepared to do that. Yeah.

[B]

Amen. Yeah.

[A]

You see more pastors starting to stand up?

[B]

Well, I don't think that I'm speaking to groups of pastors in this season for the last. Since all this started nine months ago. And as much as you guys are interfacing with them because of. But the one church I was really heavily involved with in San Jose is Mike McClure at the Calvary Chapel there, which I.

[A]

He's under attack.

[B]

So I go there on Monday to spend a week for. With him and his team and then preach on Sunday.

[C]

He's facing a million dollars in fines.

[B]

Yeah, a million dollars in fines for remaining open. Exactly. And so this is the interesting thing. I only started Kingdom x Leadership Consulting two years ago. Charlie and I consulted most of 2019 with Mike McClure, and then I started 2020 with Rob McCoy. And the only two guys I consulted with are the tip of the spear to make a stand.

[A]

Go figure. You picked the right guys.

[B]

I picked. That's it. You know, you picked the right guys. And so. What a blessing.

[A]

Yeah. Amen.

[C]

You've been a great blessing.

[A]

And Mike's really under attack right now.

[C]

He is. And, you know, to his credit, I mean, I'm in Southern California. I've got a sheriff that won't enforce the. The restraining order upon our church. So we're in a little bit better position. We're still getting fined, but Mike's up in the Santa Clara area, big tech and very liberal, and they are just dumping on him. I mean, a million dollars in fines remaining open. Yeah. It's just unconscionable. So it's. It's sad. We need to really help him and support him.

[A]

It's been a little bit of a busy news week, which is to say the least, I actually want to get into that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Rick, you were there.

[B]

I was there. I was.

[A]

Walk us through it.

[B]

Boots on the ground.

[C]

Speaking of D.C. yeah.

[B]

And so I went. I arrived to spend time with the incomparable Congressman Bob McEwen and his lovely wife Liz. And to glean from then, because I'm really on this fast track, Charlie, to absorb. I'm very solid. Obviously, after 31 years in my Christian walk, my Bible under biblical understanding. But. But I'm being baptized into this. So I wanted to spend those three days and I thought, it's a historic time, right. For the nation.

[A]

I was so impressed you were there.

[B]

Yeah. So I wanted to be there, boots on the ground to spend time with Bob and Liz. Then I wanted to go in the day before, scope things out for the big rally on Tuesday. So on Monday, there's the pre rally. I didn't even know there was a pre rally. So I showed up for the pre rally at Freedom Plaza in D.C. and engage with people, ask people questions, seeing people from all different walks of life.

[C]

And there was a worship thing going on there. People.

[B]

Oh, there's a worship. I was sending videos of that to Rob and Michelle. And then in the morning they were going to open the gates at Ellipsis park at 7am but the only thing I knew on the schedule, because it went together so fast, there really wasn't a schedule for the speaking. So I heard an interview that Eric Trump was going to be on at 10 and his father was going to be on 11. I said, okay, as long as I know the President's going to be on 11. But how many people are going to come? We have no idea. So I thought, I'm going to get on the train because we're 30 minutes outside of town. I'm going to ride the train to Union Station, get off the train and at 6:30 and be there by 7. Yeah, I mean, I'm going to be

[A]

there at the front of the line.

[C]

Easy peasy.

[A]

Just I get there.

[B]

I don't know if people camp there, but when I showed up at dark, thousands, really. Thousands in lines, long lines lining up to get into the park. I'm like, how early did I need to get up? Right. To make it into the park? Anyway, fast forward, the park fills up, we're shoulder to shoulder. And the person to my right is coming from this perspective. The person from my left is coming from this perspective. The person in front of me is a believer. It was, it was such a eclectic crowd, all passionate about liberty.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

And it was peaceful. I mean, people had their children on their shoulders. There was nothing in it that would even indicate that there was anything that would incite.

[C]

Yeah. And the part that got me is he just felt compelled, I think, because every time I thought about going to D.C. and I wanted to go, but then you asked me to come out here to help you with the Georgia

[A]

returns, which was great.

[C]

Yeah. And I was, I was thankful for it, but I Honestly, didn't have a piece about going to D.C. and I was glad. I thought, well, Rick's there. He's covering for the church, and there's going to be some congregants out there. So he's out there. He's got that, I'll come to Phoenix and be with you, Charlie. But then Rick felt compelled to kind of walk away from it. And then that's when you heard that the Capitol had been breached and.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And it just. Everyone that you were with, as you were telling me, none of them had any inclination. They were all just shocked by that. Totally. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. We marched back, and we're going back to the capital, and we were just going to arrive because everything was unfolding right. The Electoral College is going to be counted. And we just wanted to show in a peaceful way our presence and our voice. And people were gathered up on the steps. And I had been up very early and slept about three hours a night for the last three nights. So I thought, I'm just going to. It's been a great time. I'm exiting, and I was parallel to the Capitol, and some people next to me, their phone dinged, and they got the news, hey, somebody's trying to breach the. And I looked over at the building, and all I could see is all the people on the steps.

[A]

Are you serious? Wow.

[B]

Yeah. And so I was just parallel, and I'm like, I'm getting out of Dodge before everything breaks loose. So I headed to the Union Station, and they wouldn't put anything up on the reader board for the schedule. And I asked some officer there, hey, are they going to put this up? And. And he. Everybody really didn't know what was going on. So I finally went down to a platform, and there was a conductor actually out on the. The platform, and he said, I don't know what's going on, but no trains are going anywhere for the next little while. So they shut down Union Station because of what happened. Yeah. I'm sure they have a pretty fast protocol or something. Yeah. So I got an Uber and got out of Dodge before the. The. Everything fell apart. Sirens, cops everywhere.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

Charlie, I. Sitting with you on a few of the previous broadcasts and watching how you're. You're wisely navigating through just this deluge of information and videos and narratives and people trying to. To push it in one direction or the next. But you're. You're. You're pursuing, bringing clarity to what we're facing as a nation. I read to you the other night. I don't know if you wanted me to do it, but as a pastor contending with another pastor and the two of us love the Lord. We believe the Bible to be the inerrant word of God. He's my friend and has been my friend and I love this man. We're from different political positions, our skin color is different, he contains more melanin than I do. And we have been friends that have pushed each other lovingly and have always publicly been together unified. He texted me and he says, was this okay with you? I'm angry with exclamation points meaning what had occurred at the Capitol. And I said no. He said, I'm really upset. And then my comment was just like blm, peaceful people marching for the right reasons. Antifa and some others. Antifa incites rioting and the weak join in. They want us to fight against each other. And he says, no comparison. I said, our folks were there on the ground, as were our pastors. He said, nothing to do with you or God. Speak. This interrupts democracy with lies. I said, this is contrary to our live footage firsthand accounts. Anger is what they want. So if that is the response, we lose. He said, it's painful, Rob. I said, yes. He said, this was not antifa Trump supporters. It was not all peaceful, sad. And then I responded, and this is what we're dealing with as pastors, as a nation. I said, six months ago, the Capitol BLM riots killed 30 people and billions of dollars in damage. I never once sent you a text or even considered blaming you or holding you responsible. The one death we've been informed of is that of an unarmed California woman who was a 14 year Air Force veteran. I don't have the details on the other deaths. I've stood by you even when I have disagreed with you and have never blamed you for anything, ever. I have never expressed anger or malice to you. I'm not your enemy. I never have been. I will always have always been and will remain your friend. And then I said, and this is, this is where I want folks to hear. I said, I do not condone, support, agree, nor believe the violence and destruction is acceptable, justified, correct, nor should it be tolerated. No one I know affiliate with or follow to my, to the best of my knowledge had anything to do with it. It is wrong and did nothing to serve my beliefs or purposes of what I stand for and contend for. To affiliate, connect me or those who stand with me to this horror is what hurts most. He says, I don't connect you with this. I'm Discussing this with you, my friend. And that comforted me. I'm almost done. I said, I do not apologize for my immutable God given trait, nor do I apologize for the depraved evil behavior and actions of those who participated in yesterday's horror, even if they possess my immutable trait, meaning my color of my skin. I'm not them and we are not all the same. I am a child of the King and I will stand upon my character and honesty formulated in my life by God's word, which was the connection at our beginning for our friendship and has been the glue that has kept us united. I love you and I always will. And he said, right back at you. So we're having to navigate through this. He has a different approach and a different worldview. He's hurt. He sees these things. It's feeding his narrative and so easy for us at those times to feed our narrative.

[A]

Let's talk about the narrative that they think this is feeding. Yeah, right. So what do they see when they look at that?

[C]

All Trump followers are racist.

[A]

Yeah. They see what they have been warned about, I think incorrectly. But it's confirmation bias of this pent up narrative of that President Trump is worse than just his policies. He's worse than just his remarks. He has created a violent movement of mostly white people that are going to storm federal buildings and kind of do a Timothy McVeigh. Yeah, because they've been saying that out loud.

[C]

Yeah, sure.

[B]

Yeah. And I think there's obviously those ultra right wing people that are of that element. And like I said, there was a very eclectic crowd there to support Trump. And listening to the President's speech, there was nothing in it. If anything, you listen to it, it was, it was nothing about violence. It was basically about letting your peaceful protest, let your voice be known to deal with this election fraud and then just to sort that out. But we had worship songs, we all prayed together, the Lord's Prayer. And then there were people in the crowd that were chanting, you know, f antifa. And there's a different element as well. So those are all extremes. And I think it's, there's no nuanced wisdom that, you know, just because you love liberty or you support Trump doesn't mean you all have the same character or you're coming from the same perspective.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's very naive.

[C]

Charlie, you, you and Isabel brilliantly pointed out that if we don't have a shared history, we don't have a shared nation. And the 1619 project, which is trying to pit us against each other by immutable traits. We share that history, as ugly as it is. But we have to be honest about that history. We can't rewrite it to the way it fits our narrative. We have to look at original sources and go to that point. And the attempt to try to divide us by rewriting a history that didn't exist and has been debunked is very problematic. Because if that's what's going to happen in this nation and we don't have a shared history with the good and the bad, we have to really look at it, but we have to look at it honestly, not rewrite it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And. And that for me, when you said that as a history major, I was moved and I. I'm thinking to myself, doggone it, he's 28. Just irritates me.

[A]

He's just thinking, it's 27. I'll be 28 this year.

[C]

No, I thought you. I thought you had a birthday. You went 27, 28.

[A]

Let me think about this. How old am I? I was born in 93, so I'm 27. Okay, I. I get it confused. People call me 28 when I'm 27. They called me 27 when I was 27.

[C]

Okay, so you're 27. I'm 56, dude.

[A]

So it still holds. So. So, Rick, you say that we need some nuanced wisdom. Give us some of that.

[B]

Yeah, the nuanced wisdom is simply just because somebody supportive of a president. There were people to my right that thought, if this doesn't get worked out and the voter fraud is not challenged. There was a person to my right that had a very militant. This is going to a civil war. He was talking about a physical civil war. Not a civil war of ide. Not of dialogue, not of open dialogue with peaceful protest. You know, the guy to my right was more militant and some people to my left were more peaceful and praying for the president and wanting to support. And I just think it's to me and not to state it too strongly, that it's really moronic to me to not have the wisdom. Being a pastor for 31 years and hearing so many people's different perspectives and their character is that life. It doesn't matter what color you are or what language you speak or any of those things. It's about who you are and what you stand for and the majority. And I don't know what the percentages are, but the majority of the people that were there all wanted to exercise for their First Amendment rights and that is to peacefully. Yeah. Assemble. And that's what we were doing. And so there's a lot of other people in the crowd.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Charlie, you had, one of you were answering the emails and the question came from the, the 15 year old young black man.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

[C]

And he was. Yeah. And he was moving towards conservative principles. Actually, it embraced them. To the consternation of his father.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And saying he's betraying his race.

[A]

That's right.

[C]

And I had to step out. But my thought was he was. And you were talking about the Republican Party. And the thing that occurred to me is parties are platforms. They're neither moral nor immoral. They're amoral. They're only as strong as the people that participate in them. And you gather ideas. I would say the Republican Party is more accessible for people of diverse ideas, but the party's only going to be as strong as the infusion of those who have wisdom. And I was thinking of that young, that young man at 15 years of age. If he participates in this process and has access, he can design this party and make the tent stakes as wide as possible. But what we're seeing from the opposition is to completely erase an entire party. Make it a one party system.

[A]

That's right.

[C]

And put everyone who holds conservative views on trial. And that's dangerous.

[A]

Why would you need freedom of speech if everyone agrees with you?

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

Why would you need First Amendment protection protections if everyone's in agreement? Because they've eliminated everyone else.

[B]

Yeah. They have a club of uniformity or, you know, a conformity. Conform to our ideas or we will censor you. We will cut you off. And that's not what we're all about.

[C]

Isn't that diversity? There's conformity.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And, and in, in your phenomenal presentation of, of critical race theory, they really don't want us to critically think.

[A]

No. Well, yeah, it's part of the. Yeah. And look, the, the, actually the interview we have with James Lindsay we still have to put up on YouTube from Florida, which was great. We put it up on our podcast feed.

[C]

That guy's brilliant.

[A]

Yeah, he's. He's phenomenal.

[C]

Love that guy.

[A]

The, the issue that I find with kind of where this is currently headed and the, the labeling, you think about the, the statement you're betraying your own race. Right. So you think about that. Well, that's actually very, it's a very interesting statement because it actually baked into that assumption is that your race and your ideology actually must be intertwined together, which is by definition and highly racist thing to right that.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And so to say, ever to anyone. Could you imagine if I said to you, Rob, that you were betraying your race because you believed something that you would be like, oh, my goodness, you're completely racist. And that would be a racist thing to say, right?

[C]

It would be. And then to add that with. With Western culture, which is influenced by the scriptures themselves, correct to attribute that completely to. To those who don't possess a certain amount of melanin

[B]

that.

[C]

That couldn't be more detrimental to mankind. Think about this. There are millions of believers in Africa, Christian believers in Africa. They didn't receive Christianity from missionaries. Christianity entered Africa from the Ethiopian eunuch that Philip led to the Lord when he went back for Candace's entourage. And Christianity was in Africa before it got to Europe, for the most part. And here it's a series of teachings that is promising to all mankind in the beauty of the Imago day, regardless of the tapestry. Where you fit in that tapestry, it sets all mankind free. But for those who want to oppress us, they need to attribute Christianity, that I've come to set the captives free and label it to an immutable trait of whiteness. And that is the way that you are going to wipe out Christianity.

[B]

Can I have a simple P.S. i said things were shut down at Union Station. I got an Uber. And this was. This is kind of the junk's position of all of this. Sirens everywhere, whoever the radicals were that breached the Capitol, nothing that we support in this room. And yet I'm getting an Uber because I realized just logistically, and 30 minutes outside of town, and I've got to get transportation. And so the guy shows up, and his name's Kofi. Hey, Kofi, if you're listening, give you a little shout out. Thanks, man. Kofi was from Ghana. And so here's a black Uber driver from Ghana, and he doesn't know what's going on, right? Because it was happening literally minutes. And his wife's calling him on the phone, hey, there's this special alert. What's breaking news? What's happening? Anyway, I go out on a limb. Here's Kofi, a black guy, strong accent. And I asked him when he immigrated to the United states. It was 40. He's been in the states 41 years. Okay? And I asked Kofi, Kofi, I just want to ask you. I'm hearing so much rhetoric about how awful America is. And you've immigrated. You made the trip to immigrate to this, I said, is, as a black man, an Uber driver. Right. He's just a working class guy like myself, coming from that place. And I said, is America as bad as everybody's saying it is? Kofi, he gets. He pauses because he wants to think, process it. He goes, absolutely not. You know, I mean, that's not his accent. I'm terrible with accents. Rob's great with accents. Anyway, he says, no, it's not. He said, america is wonderful. And he said, honestly, until Covid hit, he said, the only reason America is bad right now is because of COVID And I went out on another limb, said, hey, Kofi, I'm a Christian. And he said, well, I'm an elder at my Pentecostal church. And him and I start fellowshipping going down the road. And him and I had more in common in relationship. Forget the melanin in our skin, forget the different country background, forget his accent. We had more in common that I have than I have with 10 other white people. I mean, to me, it. It makes no sense. There's no nuanced wisdom. It's this blanketing conformity, and it's taking over the country. It's taking over the country, and we're bludgeoned into submitting or shutting up.

[A]

The. The west is a very short experiment. We take it so for granted. Our kids aren't taught what it even means.

[B]

Means.

[A]

And we are now regressing while we have technology, which only makes the regression quicker. So we feel like we're progressing, but actually just make the regression easier. You think about. It's easier than ever to sped. Spread really, really bad ideas to a lot of people because of the cyborg age, which I call it, the human age ended as soon as these pieces of hardware.

[C]

We're just looking down and walking around.

[A]

Look, you have it. I've been checking it. You have it. Right. So we're no longer human beings for all intents and purposes, or cyborgs. And that's where I think that you made a point at dinner yesterday where Congressman Bob McEwen, it's been around 70 years, and he says, I've never lived through anything like this. I'm like, I wouldn't expect you to have. Because there's almost been a birth of a new, you know, like a Quantum human in 2010, where exponential. Yeah. Where everything gets amplified. Right. Where it's all captured in real time. But think about it. What happened on Wednesday, if that would have happened in 1910, there might have been some still photographs of it, a couple eyewitnesses. That would have happened in 1950 there would have been some audio and some black and white footage. 1970 would have made the nightly news, but happened in the today. Everyone had it, watching it real time. And then the worst clips of it get cut, reinforced and spread. Any dissension gets silenced.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So all of a sudden it's designed to fit a super narrative. Right. To, to have people react in a very certain way. That is not a way that we as human beings are built to process information. But to both your point, the students of our country and pastors that are embracing this critical race theory nonsense, it really is the. It's not just unbiblical, it's anti biblical. It's the antithesis of what the Bible teaches. That's right. Which is that life is nothing more than a power struggle. Life is nothing more than a sequence of random events that you have no such power into. And the great evangelist of this thinking, which I encourage all pastors to really become well aware of and any pastors out there, please read his writings as Friedrich Nietzsche. You have to know what this guy believed because he's kind of the St. Paul, if you will, or St. Peter is probably a better way to put it. He's the first pope of the Atheist Church of America where he proclaimed in his writings God is dead. He, he wrote very simple. He also came up with the phrase what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. But which is unrelated to his theistic teachings. But he was the most outspoken anti Christian writer and he more than almost any other writer influenced the rise of the National Socialist Workers Party in Germany and also with it Hegelian Marxism that came in the Soviet Union. He gave a license to atheism. He, he was, it's interesting, the German front line In World War I, over 600,000 copies of Friedrich Nietzsche were distributed to the front front run soldiers. And then all of a sudden you wonder why they were so open to this ideology post World War I. Yeah.

[C]

When, when, when you see the way it's infiltrated the church. And Rick, you can speak to this. It says and depending on someone's eschatology study the end times. They say that even in the end the elect will be deceived. And when I say that they're deceived by the black tile. But even further, as you and I can testify to, these folks that consider themselves conservatives, churchgoing folks, they're deceived by the Lin Wood. All the narratives that, that are just crazy out there and making them run after stuff that just distracts them and frightens them. And pits them against someone else when really we have what we need in front of us and we need to pursue that and endeavor to keep the union of the spirit and the bond of peace and let people know who they are in the imago day. But deceiving even the elect. You want to speak to that?

[B]

Yeah, I think that's. As Charlie was saying, it's all exponential. And I think that's the thing that is startling to us and the. The exponential decrease in whether it's the narrative of propaganda. I mean, this machine that's happening here is exactly what they do in China.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

Right. And it's. You squish all dissent. Or in Islam. I mean, they squish all dissent.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And that's not what Western civilization, which is built on, for those who haven't really studied it, it's from a spiritual reality. And then the Athenian reason and logic. And you marry those two things together because we have this. We are fearfully and wonderfully made. We have this creator mentality mixed with what? The biblical truth and then reason and logic.

[A]

Exactly right.

[B]

We're not unreasonable. We're not. We're logical. But so much of this is if you try to reason and logic with people, it's like there's deadness to it and it's emotion and passion.

[A]

Yes. And it's also because the postmodernists and Nietzsche really kind of started this. They are taught to believe that logic and reason are nothing more than mirages and aberrations to advance a Western fallow logocentric power struggle. Which. Fallow meaning man. Logo meaning of the logic centric. That of the centric. So the men dominate everything through the patriarchy. And that is literally a term they use.

[B]

And I'm not tuned into. I mean, I haven't had my finger on the pulse of this decline politically from your. Your vantage point, either one of you. For me, all the narrative and their rhetoric just from a. I just call myself a. A novice to this whole experience. It's victimization.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It. Everybody's a victim. Everybody's. And. And it's to keep people in this. They convince them they're a victim, they want to keep them a victim, and they motivate them to violence or whatever it takes to overthrow those who have victimized them.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And it's the exact opposite of Western thought of Christianity filled with faith, hope and love.

[C]

You're more than a conqueror.

[B]

You're more than a conqueror. You can get up and work hard and you're going to accomplish something.

[C]

Right. So, David Engelhardt, Pastor David, he is great.

[A]

He's terrific.

[C]

I preached this on Sunday and I took it from David, but it was a quote that he had posted and I loved it. He says the purpose of propaganda is not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate. And therefore, the less it corresponds to reality, the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse, when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all all their sense of probity, which means moral conviction. To assent to obvious lies is to cooperate with evil and in some small way to become evil oneself. One standing to resist anything is thus eroded and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I thought it was such a brilliant quote. And we're not only being told lies that we're being forced to believe, but from the left, we're being told lies from the right.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, and I think that this has played a huge role in just, just a lot of the nonsense in Georgia. I mean, I got a text from one of our friends who said, charlie, even if we all would have showed up in Georgia, it wouldn't have mattered. And that that's a really dangerous way to think that human action, no matter what. I mean, yeah. And I'm not going to say who it is. He's a great guy and I'll reconcile with it privately with him. But I think it's actually, it's a dangerous thing to believe that you ultimately would know what your human action would have resulted in. I'm of the opinion that you know more, surely because you didn't show up then, you know, then you could say very clean, you know, very clearly and cleanly. But some people have, have, have really, I think, been infected like a parasite with opium.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I deal with this every day.

[B]

And so what I see in getting on the airplane with most of the people coming from the rally when I flew out of D.C. at 6:00 the next morning, and here's all these people and they overhear all the buzz around me, that fatalistic idea is like, it wouldn't have mattered how many of us went, yeah, just give up. And I heard, which I've heard a lot, and it is true from my heart, I'm a father and a grandfather. I want to be passionate in this season of my life with the breath I have left to see the republic saved for my children and my grandchildren. But what I heard behind me is somebody saying, I have, they were so devastated, defeated. I have children and grandchildren and now what are we going to do? And can I just give a word of encouragement to anybody that's listening in this regard from a Christian worldview, why even have kids in this season? I can't believe this is happening with our kids. And this is my mindset. Are you really a student of the Bible? Every child that made the difference in the world was born in troublesome times. Imagine you have to throw your child in the Nile like Moses. Parents, they put him in a boat in the Nile. They did put him in the Nile, but you got this ogre, Pharaoh, making them throw their children into the Nile river. And the crocs are eating them for appetizers. And that's going on. And Moses rises up and then you have a Joseph who as a 17 year old kid ends up a slave.

[C]

Betrayed by his brothers.

[B]

Betrayed by his brothers. If Joseph would have pulled the, if anybody in all the Bible could pull a victim card, Joseph, it's Joseph. Throw him in a pit, sell him into slavery. Then he gets a good gig for a job with at least a decent owner. And then the wife lies about him. He is the victim at every turn. Then he gets thrown in jail and he interprets two guys dreams, the butler and the baker. He interprets their dreams and they forget about him. The only thing you ask him, hey, I'm going to interpret your dreams. But would you tell Pharaoh about me? Right? If anybody. That's why he's a hero for everybody. That would say what a good word, Rick. And, and I think of David. He's born in the times of the Philistines. Who wants to bring their kids into the world when you got a giant almost 10 foot tall? Everybody's shaking in their boots. Well, let me just tell everybody. I am more stoked to live in this period of time than at any time in my entire life. This is heroic times that inspire people to action. Not apathy, not, you know, any of those things. Whether it's Daniel being hauled off as a prisoner of war to serve under the cruel tyrant of Nebuchadnezzar, or even Joseph and Mary bringing the savior of the world into the world. And Herod says, go kill those children under the age of 2 years of age and they have to be on the run. I mean if you are really a conservative, biblical oriented Christian, you're like, man, let's have a dozen kids and change the world. Yeah. I mean that's.

[A]

Anyone who Starts to complain or play the victim. Job's a great example. God basically is like, are you done yet?

[C]

Who is this? Who darkens my counsel with words and without knowledge?

[A]

You finished? The Bible is a phenomenal book. What makes the Bible such a different religious text than anything else is that it talks so poorly about its protagonist, which is the people of Israel. Right. They're always screwing up, which is who would write poorly about themselves.

[C]

And he still loves them and pursues them.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. Well, self deprecation.

[A]

That's right. But also, it's. It's a constant struggle of overcoming adversity. And to not just lay down and completely and totally give up, which is the human norm, is to experience that level of adversity and struggle.

[C]

Last night, just to clear my head, I turned on Band of Brothers.

[A]

It's a great film.

[C]

Great film.

[A]

Well, TV series.

[C]

TV series. And. And I'm looking at Major Winters, who is the one that, you know, lived. He died just a few years ago, but an amazing leader of men. And he said on D Day, after it had concluded and they had, you know, he'd seen so much horror. He said, I made a commitment to myself. And he's reciting it. This is verbatim. He said, I made a commitment to myself that if I were to survive this war, I'm going to go find a big plot of land and forever live in peace. I think what we want is peace. But he earned it because he contended with evil to bring about that peace, and he had the right to enjoy it. We've enjoyed peace without having to fight for it. And we haven't. And we haven't been vigilant. And now our children are being thrust into conflict, and we want to say, oh, it's going to hell in a handbag. I mean, if it's worth contending for. And these kids are going to be grown in adversity, ready to do that. And most of the folks that fought in World War II went through the Great Depression. They understood heartache. They saw socialism on the rise. They saw people starving. I'm excited for my kids. My son Michael, my son Daniel. I mean, they're looking at that going, dad, man, this is. But they're processing it. And you're going to say that with your statement of we might as well give up. They have more hope than to listen to Greta Thunberg, because at least if we stop, you know, using anything that has a fossil fuel, maybe the world will live. Where's your scriptures Love, hopes, all things. I mean, come on, people get with it.

[B]

Yeah, and I was just thinking about this because people want to roll over and die and give up. And it's really a time to contend. It's a time in the public square like we're talking about in a peaceful way, but with thought and words and not let people shame us into silence because that's the club they're using is to shame us. Well, I don't have a voice because I'm white and I'm middle aged and I'm privileged and, and I have this white privilege. I was raised by a ex convict. I was in a trailer park. Weren't you? I was living well, as close to that. I mean, I really grew up on food stamps. My mom was a bartender. I lived.

[C]

Oh, you hate pot pies.

[B]

Yeah, that's all you ate. Frozen, you know, living out of the tip jar and those things. But your effort in life makes a difference and you're not a victim. I don't care who you are. But I was thinking about this. For those who would say this is the end, we're going towards socialism. Because you could speak to this more than me, Charlie, but 60 to 70% of millennials lean towards or have embraced socialism. And I go, okay, so for the Christians, I tell them, has Christianity flourished under every single type of governmental authority for 2,000 years? In China, it's the underground church, right? And in Islam, there's Christians that are, I mean, people are becoming Christians. Socialism, monarchy, anarchy, like Somalia, there's Christians there, there's, you know, no, as far,

[C]

I wouldn't say flourish, but survived.

[B]

Survived. Well, that's what I'm saying is that sometimes things have to get darker before people finally wake up. And we've mentioned this about the sleeping giant, and I think honestly, the best answer for a lazy church, and that's what I believe it was. G. Campbell Morgan said that the church persecuted. Is the church pure and the church unpersecuted? Is the church impure? And right now we're seeing the threshing floor and the separating of the wheat and the chaff. Those who got the guts to follow Jesus and those who do want to do it publicly and they're not ashamed of it. And those who are going to cower in the corner and basically put up the black tile, whatever I need to embrace, how can I fit in? I know I should. I'm ashamed that I should be white. I'm colorblind. I don't care what color you are, man. Who are you? As a person.

[C]

That's like a mic drop right there.

[A]

It's really good. That's really good. Right.

[B]

I don't have a.

[A]

They're right here.

[C]

They just don't drop.

[A]

It's good. We are the country is. Is definitely going up against. I. I've said this before. I think that the great. If I was a leftist. It's so helpful to think. If you were kind of a secular leftist, what would you want us to do? And the greatest thing you could possibly do to defeat your enemy is to give them to give up. Think about it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That is the greatest weapon. And so to reinforce apathy. If I was a leftist, I would be running mass media telling everyone to give up. Which is basically what they're doing.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

They said that the Western world was saved by the English language because it was Churchill who was so phenomenal in the way that he parsed his speeches. He would even. The only time he used a French based word was when he talked about surrender. He was so equipped in the English language.

[A]

Apres no les deluges, which means after us, the flood. Typical French phrase. I'm sorry.

[C]

You said their two greatest inventions are

[A]

the tourniquet and the white flag. We're pretty hard on the French here.

[C]

Yeah. But he saved Western civilization by the clarity of the word that was true and brought them hope. And if we really believe the Bible to be the inspired inerrant word of God and that it's true and that that word spoke the heavens into existence and he calls himself the. The Logos or Lagos or Logos or. I've heard thousands. If he calls himself that. And he says in the beginning was the Word and the word was with God and the Word was God and the word became fleshed. What with man.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

If we believe that to be true, then that that truth still has power to change lives. A spoken word. To stand upon it and to stand upon truth and whatever things are true. So that's why. And I must say it again, that's why sitting at this desk as we still have this audience before they may shut it down. Because the only way that a lie can be perpetrated is to silence the truth. And the truth must never be silenced. And you just keep rightly dividing it. Sift through all of the propaganda and everyone's narrative and just show people the truth. That's why the press was supposed to be the ones who would report the truth. But now they report a narrative.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That's why this is such a critical program.

[B]

And I really do believe It's a, it's a war of truth. I was telling somebody the other day, you know, when the children of Israel went to war, do you know that they actually had a chapter in Deuteronomy 20 about warfare? How you go to war, how do you prepare if the enemy comes in like a flood, right? This is what you do. And he walks them through it. He says, you call for the priest and Rob and I have the blessing of being representatives in that way, to be a voice for God's people. And you speak to the people. This is what we're doing even here today, right? And so we're speaking and it says, do not be afraid or faint hearted because I'm with you and don't give up. What's the answer immediately when the enemies on the doorstep are overwhelming you. I'm with you, right? God's with us. We have nothing to be afraid of. When we remember the presence of the Lord and you forget God's promise, you don't have to be afraid because he's with you.

[C]

My father, naval officer, we were in the war riots in the late 60s and 70s. I was a young child in Washington D.C. my dad was stationed at the Navy Yard. I remember being there and I remember being frightened as we were there for America Day and then the protesters were out there. And I remember his. He had beautiful hands. He's since gone to be with the Lord and he just put me behind him. And the comfort and the security that I'm with him just settled me because I was. There was anxiousness about me. And when you see the word discouraged, it just means without courage.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

You want to remove the discouragement, Find some courage. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. You are more than a conqueror. In Christ Jesus you'll know the truth and the truth will set you free. I have been young and I have been old. I've never seen the righteous forsaken nor their children begging bread. Yeah, the Lord is a strong tower. The righteous run into him, they are saved. These are. This is what you should be giving to your family and your kids. Not, not, not this defeatism, not this fear.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

Don't buy into this narrative. They want you to be discouraged and it's time for courage.

[B]

And we're not going to become those who are victims. We're not victims, you guys. Nope, none of us are victims. Even if you were in communist China, you are a more than a conqueror because God is going to do what he wants to do. The rules of Warfare. He goes on to say, hey, if you've built a house and you haven't been able to live in it, then don't come because, you know we want you to enjoy that. And, you know, you planted a vineyard. You haven't eaten the grapes yet. Don't come. We're going to be out here fighting the battle. Now, some of you guys are building homes and you're having a glass of wine. And we're in this seat where we're fighting the battle. Now, one of us, the third one is now, if you're engaged to a woman and you haven't married her yet. Right. Well, go do that, Charlie. And, and we know that the engagement has happened. But anyway, moving on.

[A]

I plan to. I know, I know.

[B]

Oh, no, no, no. I, I, I don't have anything to do with that.

[A]

Is that one of the rules?

[B]

No, it's one of the rules.

[C]

Yeah. You spend a year with your wife to get to know her before you go back onto battle.

[B]

What I'm saying is, we'll talk to you about it later, is you're fighting the battle, right?

[A]

So you're fighting the country.

[B]

And the last one, this one's the one that kills me. These people are all engaged in things. And there's. The rest of us will go fight for you. And then the last one is, if you're afraid, go home, because your fear is going to fill the rest of us with fear.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

And that's it.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

And it's contagious. Do you know that? Courage is contagious.

[C]

And so is discouragement and fear.

[B]

And so is fear. And so what are you bringing to people? Are you bringing, I mean, it was such a blow. You saw such devastation. Right. This week. And, but you're bringing courage, both of you.

[A]

I have to. And I, I got pretty fired up in one of my live streams recently, and I don't regret it because the guy deserved it. He said this whole diatribe on Civil War and all the different tactical gear he had, and I just had to swat it down. One of the emails.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I do have to, on, I do have to, I think, have a little bit more understanding. People are really despondent right now. Yeah. Like, next level, despondent.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I'm not there. Yeah, I'm actually not. I mean, I'm angry, I'm upset, I'm saddened. But it was always baked into my calculation that this could happen. And I told everyone I'm going to wake up and keep working I mean.

[C]

Yeah, you did. I remember the question being asked of you. You said, I'm going to work the next day.

[A]

What did I do?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Got up and went to work.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Rick, when Joshua approaches the commander of the Lord's army and he says, are you for us or against us? And we look at it as a christophany appearance of Christ in the Old Testament. Yeah. And he says, neither.

[A]

Right?

[C]

He says neither.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

So in the political world, you have a spectrum. Go left and right. I look at it more as a horseshoe and. Yeah, but, but let's just say left and right and, and, and, and you're going to have militants on either end. It's like kind of like a church tug of war. You got the big heavysit militants that never talk to anybody on the other side and they just wrap the rope around. They're just the heaviest people in church and they're going to be the anchors and. But the people who are closest to the mud pit, they're having interaction and they're contending with one another. But along these lines, you're going to have these folks that are militant and then there's going to be pieces all the way through it. When you're looking at these different levels of activity, the one thing that spans the entirety of that tug of war is Christ.

[A]

That's right.

[C]

He speaks to every segment of that population. And the question is, are you free or are you enslaved? That spans the political spectrum.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

But the politics is still necessary to contend for the ecclesia on how we live together. Will that put us into greater slavery or will it give us freedom to experience imago de pursue excellence? Or are we all going to be conformed with this Tower of Babel where we all march the same way and we're robots? Or do we see the diversity that Elohim unified diversity. The flowers on the field, different colors but they're just a tapestry of beauty. Or are we going to have to all conform to be one set? Is there freedom? And that's the difference in creation that all of us have that imago day. And Christianity speaks to the freedom of man. And if the pulpits aren't doing it, the political structure dissolves into enslavement.

[A]

That's exactly right.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And an oligarchy of some capacity, whether fascism, socialism, you know.

[B]

Right, Go ahead. No, I don't.

[A]

No, it's just a. It's an interesting question. If you were to get 100 students and you ask them what builds civilizations, the answer is usually not easily grappled with with. Because no one talks about that. Right. And so how, how does one build a civilization? You can go through the ancients, they kind of just stumbled backwards into it because of proximity to water. These were the riverbed civilizations of the Indus River Valley, the Nile, Mesopotamian, and of course the angsty. But what build civilizations outside of just proximity to natural resources? Well, it's. You could either build civilizations for good or civilizations for bad. And we've seen both. Most actually are pretty awful and brutal. What made this civilization different though, is there was activist Christians that actually built this place. Yep. And it will be completely and totally upon activist Christians whether or not this will continue. It's that simple.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And using that word activist because it's been so messed with, I would just

[A]

say I mean it positively.

[C]

I know you do, but, but, but I want to encourage people.

[A]

You're an activist Christian. That's what I mean.

[C]

And I receive it that way.

[A]

Being aware, reading the news, knowing what's true and what's not influencing your community. Well, these are the other kind of things.

[B]

These are the things that I knew. I even taught that there's only three institutions that the Bible institutes. Right. You have marriage, the Lord, the marriage and family that the Lord creates in Genesis 2. And then you have the church because there's sacrifice and forgiveness of sins, whether it's them being covered with animal skins or Abel's official first worship service that the Lord blesses in Genesis 4. And then there's the government, there's the state, and the Lord's organized these three institutions we have after Noah comes out of the ark. He talks about it in Genesis 9 and the covenant. Yeah, that's right. So I talk about those things. But even as a pastor, knowing that the Lord created three institutions, marriage and family, I was all about it. Okay. And the church or forgiveness for sins and a spiritual center for people. I'm a pastor.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But when it came to the government to be salt and light, my simple adage was pray for your leaders. Like first Timothy 2 declares, and then use your citizenship vote. That's as far as my activism went. Yeah, right. But get involved to be salt and light on the school board and run for city council and county commissioners and for governor and engage the public square. This is where I fell short. It's a three legged stool. If you, if God's involved in your marriage, it's going to do well. If he's involved in the spiritual center, you're going to do well. And if you leave him out of engaging in the public square as a citizen. A three legged stool will only stand if all three legs are strong. And that's exactly what you were speaking to. The forefathers put all three of those things together and we got the greatest nation in the history and the greatest experiment of a republic or.

[A]

And they stumbled backwards into it. They didn't just wake up in 1750 and say, you know, 26 years from today we're going to go dissolve ties. They fell backwards into it. It was the first great revival in our country. First great awakening.

[C]

Yeah, there was a great awakening and

[A]

then Whitfield and Jonathan Edwards and the

[C]

Declaration of Independence was preached from the pulpits of America before it was penned by Jefferson. I mean there's, there's pastors that you can take full clips out of their sermons that exist in the Declaration.

[A]

He was just, he wasn't declaring and he was not expressing anything that wasn't already right articulated.

[C]

They had learned it in the, in the pulpits.

[B]

And I believe it was really supernatural wisdom that was poured upon them as they were working in that constitutional meeting. Right. And they were at a logger's head with all of these ideas to put into it. And they went to fasting and prayer. It's very much like Solomon in here having a baby and two women saying, it's my baby. And he calls for a sword to get to the heart of the matter. And the mom that yet, please let my child. Don't split my baby in half because hey, let's just split this in half and let's do this. And they prayed, fasted and prayed, and I believe the Lord gave them supernatural wisdom, the sword to cut through really so many human issues and to give us a spiritually inspired biblical perspective of a creator and our unalienable rights and

[A]

it's up to us to save it.

[C]

That's right. That's right. Well, from, from that. When he walked out of the Constitutional Convention, Benjamin Franklin, when he had called for prayer, he said, spirit is fall from the sky without God's. How can we, you know, build a government without his help, beseeching his help? And then the woman says, Mr. Franklin, what form of government have you given us? He says, republican, madam, if you can keep it. And it falls to us. Yes, that republic has to be of a moral people and we've got to help people be free.

[B]

Well, if that wisdom was available for them, then Charlie, in the lord it's available.

[A]

James 1:5. Ask for wisdom.

[B]

Ask for wisdom. It's available for us.

[C]

Anybody who lacks it, just ask.

[B]

You'll give freely.

[A]

Things. He'll give freely.

[C]

Amen.

[A]

It's wisdom.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

So on January 21, I will be at Jack Kip's church.

[B]

Great.

[A]

If everyone wants to.

[C]

What about January 17th?

[A]

And then I'll be at the Godspeek on the 17th.

[C]

We get you first.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

We're chopped liver. It's okay.

[C]

Well, by the way, Charlie, January 17th, when you come. Sean, Sean Fort's going to be there.

[A]

Yeah. Doing the worship. Right.

[C]

He's going to do the worship. But then we're going to have many pastors from across the country that have stood in opposition to tyranny. And we're going to sign that declaration and it's. And we're going to pray over it and sign it, and it's going to be a big day, so folks are encouraged to come on out. January 17th, Saturday, we're going to be

[B]

having some dinner with the pastors and then bringing it for Charlie. It's a big day, Charlie.

[A]

You guys are going to bring it on that Sunday? We will. We talked about this. We're going to come up with the three to five bullet points of questions.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you have to have all these checked. If you say, what do I do? What do I do? Great question. You got to check these three. Which is one of them, for example, that we talked about for a Christian is, do you know every single school board member personally? Have you taken them all out to lunch and. Or do you have plans to influence the next school board election, maybe running yourself?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

If the answer is no, don't ask me. What. What should you do? That's just one. Right.

[B]

I agree. Charlie. I was laying those out at dinner last night. Or not. Not those. I was saying we need this list of things to just practically boxes. And I was wanting to declare to pastors what to do. And Charlie, in his wisdom, who has a lot of conversations with pastors, said, I believe it's best to ask questions and have them respond and intergate, engage.

[A]

And do you see that that was the better way to do it?

[B]

I thought it was a hundred percent.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

We're restoring the third leg of the stool.

[B]

Yeah. Amen. And I, and I believe that's exactly what's happening, happening.

[A]

It's a great opportunity.

[C]

But wait, Charlie, I, I, I, I asked you what I'm supposed to do. I did all these things. I bought a pillow. I send visceral emails to my friends.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Well, look, the, I will say that it's better to have thousands and thousands and thousands of emails of people that are asking what to do.

[C]

Amen.

[A]

Than have an inbox where no one cares.

[C]

Yeah, we're. No one cares.

[A]

And I could tell you this though. I get a lot of emails from people in Eastern Europe. The Estonian email I got and from Italy and Greece and Spain. I'll just use Europe as an example. And they say, charlie, no one cares in our country. No one. And it is what happens just with this kind of parliamentarian apathy where it's just give me stuff. And the one thing that does give me hope outside of all of this, hundreds of thousands of people showed up to Washington D.C. on a long shot just to celebrate a president. What other countries that happening on the planet.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And that goes to show that President Trump, one of his longest lasting legacies will be all of a sudden this reignation, this reignition of participatory citizen government. I just pray and this is up to us that it doesn't get lost because of the correct, the good conversations we've been having around voter integrity. All of a sudden people say it doesn't matter, I'm done. Because no matter what I do, they're going to change my votes. We have to be careful with that. Yeah, right.

[B]

I agree.

[C]

Well, it'll also be a pruning process. Most people are saying what do I do? And the reason why they're asking that question is because nobody's led them and they've never been educated. And it's time for leaders, for shepherds to start doing your homework, studying to show yourself approved and start leading for lack of a vision. The people perish.

[A]

We're going to create. We're going to ask people every time, do you have your boxes checked? That's what we're going to say from this point forward. Right. Do you have your boxes checked?

[B]

I think that's a great way to approach it and we need those, those beginning steps and that's just the beginning. And to teach and instruct. You know, I was so impressed not only with the whole student action. Thank you. Your whole team did a phenomenal, aren't they?

[A]

They worked so hard.

[B]

I want you to know how much hope that filled me with because as a middle aged guy that's loved our nation, when I saw that place and all the kids waiting outside, they wouldn't even let them all in. That's a tragedy. That was sad. But high schoolers and college age kids in there so excited about a conservative worldview. It just. Oh, it thrilled My heart and to see Kristi Noem there. And she said, I have taken the opportunity and I thought it was such a great word for every. Desantis and Christy are really leading the way.

[A]

Don't you think they are the two best governors in America.

[B]

Two best. That's my assessment. And she said, I believe our job for our nation or for my people in this in South Dakota is to teach and instruct and trust them with personal responsibility. Good word, not to, but the same thing for us.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Teach and instruct in personal responsibility. And their personal responsibility. It's on you, man.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

It's on them.

[A]

That's what makes the American experiment different than any other is this idea of trust of the citizenry. That's right. And you only give trust to people that have earned it. You don't give, you know, the keys to the new Cadillac to an 8 year old. They haven't earned it.

[B]

Right, that's right.

[A]

And so we as citizens need to, we need to have get our leaders to trust us again to give us our liberty back. But that all starts with the church. When you have an informed, prayerful citizenry, then you are able to deal with liberty because liberty is a thermonuclear weapon if you don't know what you're doing.

[B]

Well, I think that's why people don't understand why the church is so essential. When the nation of Israel went through this, their city was destroyed and they were dispersed all over for 70 years because God was disciplining them. And when they came back, the first thing they had to rebuild was the temple, the spiritual center of the nation. And then they could rebuild the walls which were the defensive mechanisms of the nation. And then they could take over the rest of the country, do the commerce. So it's got to be body, soul and spirit. But it starts with, you know, Peter said, judgment begins with the house of God. Everything begins with God's people.

[A]

Amen. It's true. And in the constitutional republic we should take note from all the people in the Old Testament that influenced the King Joseph, for example, Esther Mordecai, Jeremiah, Daniel. And that's not an exhaustive list. No, but who's the Esther, Daniel Mordecai in our country, it's you. You're supposed to be the counselor. The church supposed to be the counselor. That's right. That's. And that's why the founders had comfort as Christians not putting in a national religion, but they're. But instead giving the freedom up. Because they said as long as we have the freedom of Christians will influence this government.

[C]

Earlier this week, I heard Graham Allen say, where are the pastors in this hour? And I tweeted back to him. So I'm right here, and I'm with Rick. You know, it's like they're. They're. We're out there and it's growing and it's growing.

[A]

And I. I have been so pleased to meet, you know, Greg Farrington.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Both of you guys. McClure, James Cadiz, Ken Graves, Jurgen, Jack Hibbs. Who deserves a special shout out, who is as bold as ever.

[C]

James Cadiz.

[A]

Yeah. James Cadiz. Phil Green. Yep. Right. Frank from.

[C]

Greg Locke.

[A]

Yeah. Greg Locke.

[C]

Frank Ram. Ramsauer.

[A]

Yeah. Frank Ramsauer from Chattanooga, Tennessee, to Cody.

[B]

Cool.

[C]

Cody. Cool.

[A]

These are all guys that have completely

[C]

opened Randall in California. San Clemente. John Randall.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know if I've met.

[C]

No, no, no.

[A]

That's San Juan Capistrana.

[C]

San Juan Capistrano.

[A]

I'm speaking there on the evening of the 17th.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Who's your friend up in Northern Idaho?

[A]

Paul. I want to say.

[C]

Paul it is Paul.

[B]

That's right. Yeah.

[A]

Paul.

[C]

I'm gonna put them on right now.

[B]

These guys are heroes.

[A]

They are.

[B]

You two are heroes.

[A]

No, we're not heroes. Those pastors are heroes. Rob's a hero. Yeah. And. But they're out there and they're growing and there will be more. And Paul Vanoy. That's right. Shout out a Dutch name.

[C]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

Well, I think that's the thing that people. People don't understand.

[C]

To.

[B]

To be heroic simply means that you. You are willing to do in scary times what nobody else is willing to do.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I mean, that's. You're willing to make that stand. And if you're not willing to throw down now in this time of our nation, like you think it's going to get better, they have no idea what. How the shrinking control of government is. Is coming. If Germany could throw the brakes right on Nazi Germany 10 years before it happened because of what was developing, and you see it when you read Bonhoeffer's book.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

It was all on the horizon. It was all coming when you read

[A]

Bonhoeffer's and the church just kind of hedged a little bit, and the gospel, the false gospel of Friedrich Nietzsche was growing. And. I'm sorry, go ahead.

[B]

And you know what they used? They used Martin Luther's own words, the church. The founder of the Lutheran Church of Germany, because he went. In his later years, he went through a Bad spell of being anti Jewish. So they used the church. They used the leadership of the church to bludgeon and shame the people into submission. Even your spiritual leaders. And that's what's happening when you put a black tile on your door. They're using the leverage of the facade, really. And that's all it is.

[A]

Look how good of a person I am. Yeah. Virtue signaling. Well, this has been fun, guys.

[C]

Thanks, John.

[A]

So January 17th. Yeah. Godspeak. Yeah. Three services, right?

[B]

Spectacular.

[C]

You can check it [e-mail] and then I want to say thank you because I was not an Instagram guy, but you've like. So what's your Instagram robmcoy. You made it go crazy.

[B]

Cool.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Hopefully you don't get deleted soon.

[C]

Yeah, whatever.

[A]

And do you have Instagram?

[B]

No, but I'm gonna get everything. I'm the anti.

[C]

Don't, don't, don't. We're all gonna walk away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, I do think that people have to use their devices less. Yeah.

[C]

Amen.

[A]

I said that at sas.

[C]

You did.

[A]

That resonated with.

[C]

And I'd actually affected me.

[A]

It was good, right?

[C]

I was blessed by it. I thought it was one of your best presentations.

[A]

Thank you. It's very kind. And then this night of the 17th at Calvary Chapel, San Juan Capistrano. Did I get that right?

[C]

Yeah. And then the following Thursday. Thursday.

[A]

And I did this intentionally with Jack.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Who? You introduced me to Jack. And Jack is a great American. He is. And he's never said no. Just like you. And I said, jack, I think people are going to be pretty depressed and despondent the day after, you know, right near the inauguration. Said, let's go do a massive happening now. He's like, I love it, brother.

[C]

I want to be in the front row enjoying it.

[A]

Well. And I just think that, you know, we're gonna have some good stuff to share.

[B]

Well, I'm so excited.

[A]

Chino Hills, if anyone's listening, wants to come on the 21st, since this is

[C]

a Sunday podcast, can we have Rick?

[A]

Yeah. Please. That's. Let's do it.

[C]

Will you pray for everyone?

[B]

Let's do it. Father. Thank you for your incredible love, Lord Jesus. We just want to declare from our hearts we love you and we thank you that you're the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. And, Lord, you are the author and finisher of our faith. And, Lord, what you have begun this good work in us and in our nation, Lord, you will bring it to completion until the day that you come again, Lord Jesus. So we just commit our ways into your hands, Lord. Just bless Charlie, strengthen him, bless Rob and myself. Strengthen us to be a voice for your kingdom and for our citizens, for our nation, Lord, and for the world. In Jesus name, Amen.

[A]

Amen. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. If you want to get involved with Turning Point USA, go to tpusa.com where we play offense with a sense of urgency to win America's culture war. We're a movement of positivity and optimism. While everyone else is negative around you, do something positive around it. We still live in a great country. Let's do it. Email us your questions freedom charliekirk.com and support [e-mail] support. God bless you guys. Talk to you soon.