What Happened in Michigan?

Summary

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The Charlie Kirk Show

Episode: What Happened in Michigan?
Date: August 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this jam-packed episode, Charlie Kirk and his team dive deep into the razor-thin results of the Michigan Democratic Senate primary, dissecting its political and cultural implications for the state and the nation at large. Featuring polling expert Mark Mitchell, Senator Tommy Tuberville, and health guest Sarah Kleiner, the show covers topics ranging from election irregularities, youth political attitudes, and party infighting, to daylight saving time debates and the latest in circadian rhythm science. The tone is unapologetically conservative and combative, with an emphasis on the cultural and electoral "wars" facing America.

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Key Discussion Points & Segments

Michigan Democratic Primary Results & Irregularities

Timestamps: 01:10–10:00

• Charlie Kirk analyzes the results of the Michigan Democratic primary, noting Abdul El Sayed's narrow victory over Haley Stevens: "He won 48.48% to 47.51%, a difference, really, of about ... 14,000, 15,000 votes separating them." (01:10)
• Expectations were for a much larger margin due to polling, but the race was razor-thin, leading to suspicions about election “irregularities.”

Electioneering & Polling Miss (w/ Mark Mitchell)

• Charlie reads and interprets a Trump tweet suggesting possible ballot fraud and establishment interference in Wayne County: "Wayne County, Detroit in Michigan is one of the most corrupt voting areas in the United States, if not the world. It is strictly third world. No arguments yet, right, Mark?" (02:34)
• Mark Mitchell (Honest Polling Co.): Emphasizes this is one of the polling industry's biggest misses in recent memory, with huge mail-in turnout and an underperformance for El Sayed compared to polls (03:52).
• Stevens outperformed in urban/Black precincts, likely thanks to establishment Democratic machine efforts, challenging the expectations that the progressive candidate would sweep these areas.

Quote:

"What probably happened... establishment Dems, especially in some of these black urban cores, they didn't like El Sayed and they were working against him doing all the shenanigans that we are now so accustomed to."
— Charlie Kirk (06:14)

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Party Messaging & Youth Politics

Timestamps: 10:16–16:16

• Caller "Brooks" (19 y/o): Chimes in on C-Span, supporting El Sayed due to opposition to AIPAC/Israel-focused politics: "I've seen Haley Stevens talk far more passionately about her support for Israel than anything she has for Michigan. So I feel voting for her would leave blood on my hands and I can't do that." (10:18)
• Charlie & Mark: Discuss the toxicity of AIPAC money among younger and more progressive voters ("AIPAC money has become toxic." 11:27).
• Mark Mitchell: Finds that economic issues and perceptions that the "system is cooked" are driving youth support for left-populist/socialist policies—even among young conservatives: "Most under 40 voters, including Trump voters, overwhelmingly support things that sound really socialist, like nationalizing industries or confiscating excess wealth." (12:55)
• Key Strategy for GOP: Focus on national economic populism, not anti-socialist fear or Israel-first messaging, to engage younger voters.

Quote:

"Granddaddy's capitalism is not going to win ... the young people aren't going to be fighting the same right-left battle that the older, more ideological generations are. It's going to be over putting themselves first and getting what they want."
— Mark Mitchell (13:35)

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Democratic Party Carnage & GOP Opportunities

Timestamps: 16:16–17:11

• Charlie: Highlights infighting post-primary, with Hasan Piker alleging pervasive Islamophobia among Dem establishment and vowing not to reconcile with El Sayed’s opponents.
• Mark Mitchell: Urges the GOP to learn from and exploit these fractures, noting widespread disillusionment with economic globalization and the failure to represent working people: "What you're seeing is playing out on both the right and the left right now. There are people, intractable people... fighting over basically Israel and the economy." (16:16)

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Senator Tuberville on the “Enemy at the Gate”

Timestamps: 19:23–31:50

Cultural & Demographic Change

• Sen. Tommy Tuberville (R-AL): Warns that America faces "the enemy ... inside the gate," referencing radical social change, immigration, and the “communist agenda.”
• Education is cited as a critical battleground: "Our education system has pushed a lot of our younger kids ... and they're following this socialist communist agenda..." (19:23)

Critique of Universities & WOKE Ideologies

• Discussion on universities as indoctrination factories and the burden of useless degrees, advocating for less federal control over education: "Our universities have become a business instead of a educational institution... all these WOKE professors..." (21:48)

Election Security & Party Weakness

• Tuberville criticizes Republican complacency and lack of a "game plan," especially regarding election integrity: "If we don't straighten out this country's voting... it's going to be over with." (20:17)

Intra-GOP Frustration

• Charlie Kirk: Rails against Republicans for not fighting hard enough legislatively: "Cancel the August recess... if you don't actually call the vote, if you don't do the things, then you're just a coward that's covering up for other cowards." (34:13)
• Tuberville: Laments that fraud and "rigged" systems mean the GOP is losing states, and ties the fate of representation to stricter election laws.

Quote:

"We're walking into a war zone without a gun, and there's nobody fighting back... We should be passing everything in the world. Bust a filibuster."
— Sen. Tommy Tuberville (24:37)

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National Populism vs. Capitalism, and the Generational Divide

Timestamps: 38:43–53:14

• David Bleas (Patriot Mobile Faith): Discusses the “capitalism vs. socialism” dichotomy, defining capitalism as the economic system that values freedom—“most biblical” because it leaves room for generosity by choice, not compulsion:

  “Capitalism values freedom... it’s not the perfect system... but it’s the best we’ve found because it values liberty, self-determination, and generosity.” (40:07)

• Concern over rising youth skepticism toward capitalism, with social media driving pro-socialism sentiment.
• Charlie: Platforms the idea that America needs "capitalism with biblical guardrails," not unfettered greed.
• Discussion: Emphasis on clarifying terms like “capitalist,” “populist,” and “America First”; warning against conflating populism with isolationism at the cost of biblical charity.

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The Daylight Saving Time (DST) vs. Standard Time Debate

Timestamps: 55:51–73:16

Circadian Science & Political Implications

• Special Guest: Sarah Kleiner (Circadian Health Expert): Asserts emphatically that "permanent standard time" is superior for human health, in line with scientific consensus.

  "Every single circadian scientist that I have ever spoken with is on the time of Permanent Standard Time. That's the one that aligns with our biological clock." (56:03)

• Counters arguments that permanent DST lowers crime in evenings; instead, cites 1974 experiment's backlash and danger to children during dark mornings.
• Practical Health Advice: Early morning light exposure critical for metabolic, hormonal, and mental health—“If you don't get that signal in your eyes in the morning, you're not clearing residual melatonin... You're not resetting those circadian clocks.” (62:02)

Modern Life & Light Pollution

• Discussion on how modern artificial lighting and screen use disrupts circadian rhythms, mentioning even women’s menstrual cycles getting out of sync post-smartphone era.
• Actionable Tips: Use blue blockers, keep light “lux” levels low at night to optimize sleep and health (66:23–71:17).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Charlie Kirk (on Democratic machines):

  "Establishment Dems, especially in some of these black urban cores, they didn't like El Sayed and they were working against him doing all the shenanigans that we are now so accustomed to." (06:14)

• Mark Mitchell (on youth politics):

  "Most under 40 voters, including Trump voters... would actually vote for a socialist candidate." (12:55)

• Sen. Tuberville (on GOP inaction):

  "We're walking into a war zone without a gun, and there's nobody fighting back." (24:37)

• Sarah Kleiner (on circadian health):

  "The number one treatment for anxiety and depression is bright light therapy upon waking. So that is very established research." (63:58)

• David Bleas (on capitalism):

  "Capitalism is the most biblical economic system that we have because it values freedom and choice, which is something the Bible has a lot to say about." (40:07)

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Takeaways for the Uninitiated

• Michigan Senate primary results (Democrat side) were much closer than expected, with accusations flying about establishment interference and irregularities.
• Youth voters, even many young conservatives, are increasingly receptive to left-populism and even socialism, prioritizing economic solutions over traditional partisan divides.
• GOP struggles are both legislative (failure to deliver policy wins, inaction on election security) and cultural (failure to meet youth where they are on economic/identity issues).
• Debate over DST v. standard time reflects deeper issues of modern life and health; science clearly favors “standard time” for circadian alignment.
• Underlying message: Only an energized, united, and populist—but not isolationist or anti-capitalist—conservatism can turn the tide as perceived cultural and demographic changes accelerate.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Michigan Senate Primary Recap: 01:10–10:00
• Electioneering & Establishment Tactics: 02:07, 03:52, 06:14
• Youth Political Shifts & Messaging: 10:18, 11:27, 12:55–14:25
• Democratic Fractures & GOP Opportunity: 16:16–17:11
• Sen. Tuberville Interview: 19:23–31:50
• Party Inaction & Election Integrity: 25:49, 27:39, 29:38, 34:13
• Capitalism vs. Populism/Youth Attitudes: 38:43–53:14
• Circadian Health & DST Debate: 55:51–73:16

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Summary prepared in the language and style of The Charlie Kirk Show, with speaker attributions and timestamps for easy reference.

Transcript

[Senator Tommy Tuberville]

Foreign.

[David Bleas]

My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro American student

[Charlie Kirk]

organization in the country, fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful.

[David Bleas]

College is a scam, everybody.

[Andrew Colvett]

You gotta stop sending your kids to college.

[David Bleas]

You should get married as young as

[Charlie Kirk]

possible and have as many kids as possible.

[Andrew Colvett]

Go start Attorney Point USA College chapter.

[Charlie Kirk]

Go start a Turning Point USA High School chapter.

[David Bleas]

Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist.

[Charlie Kirk]

I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade.

[David Bleas]

Most important decision I ever made in my life. And I encourage you to do the same. Here I am, Lord.

[Sarah Kleiner]

Use me.

[Charlie Kirk]

Buckle up, everybody. Here we go.

[Andrew Colvett]

Noble Gold Investments is the official gold

[Charlie Kirk]

sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals.

[David Bleas]

Learn how you could protect your wealth

[Charlie Kirk]

with Noble gold [e-mail] that is noblegoldinvestments.com it's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegoldinvestments.com all right. Welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show. It's August 5th, and it would be a Wednesday, which means last night we had the Michigan primary and everybody was watching for the hotly contested Democrat side of the ledger. Mike Rogers was uncontested on the Republican side, but it looks like it was a lot closer than we anticipated. But Abdul El Sayed did, I believe, pull it off, barring any surprises. But that's. The race has been called by the New York Times and others. He won 48.48% to 47.51%, a difference, really of about. I mean, it's. It's razor thin. I mean, it's. What is that, 14,000, 15,000 votes separating them?

[Senator Tommy Tuberville]

They.

[Charlie Kirk]

The polling had this thing at like maybe 10, right? It was going to be a 10 point, 15 points, maybe 15. And so because there was so much irregularities, I wanted to bring on an actual pollster right at the jump here, Mark Mitchell. He's the head pollster at the Honest Polling Company. Mark, good to have you back, my friend. There's so many irregularities here. And I wanna get into this Trump tweet because you and me talk before the show. I think I misinterpreted it, but directionally we're kind of getting the same thing, but maybe slightly different conclusion here. I'm gonna read it and then you have. I'm gonna have you react to it. So Wayne County, Detroit in Michigan is one of the most corrupt voting areas in the United States, if not the world. It is strictly third world. No arguments yet. Right, Mark? We're all in agreement with the House about all that. Yeah, miracles happen in Wayne county, including more votes being cast than there are voters by a lot. Therefore, the communist who is not liked in Detroit is potentially in votes counter trouble. The radical left socialist has a real shot. And don't discount all of those fake mail in ballots that will surprisingly show up at the last moment. Get ready for another rigged election in November. We must vote for Mike Rogers and make Michigan too big to rig. So I interpreted this as there was funniness afoot in Michigan. There was the establishment Dems came out. They did not want Abdul El Sayed to win. They wanted Haley Stevens to win. And they tried to rig it and they tried to rig it in some weird ways because some of this stuff just doesn't make any sense, Mark. And I'm not sure what the President means then, but you tell me what you think he means and why he's got it a little bit wrong here.

[Mark Mitchell]

Well, so we got to break down. We'll go with the end first. He says vote Mike Rogers. Okay, good. There. Vote for the Republican. The Democrats shouldn't win in Michigan. But he's tweeting because he's upset with the response of what happened last night. Well, what's he upset about? Syed won and it seems like he would have preferred Stevens to win, which is why he's objecting to what happens with the electioneering. Right. And that's wild and totally incongruous because like what you said, the polling overwhelmingly said that said was going to win. The prediction markets both had him at like 99 to 1. The fact that it was a one point race is actually kind of nutso. It would be one of the biggest polling like misses of the industry that I can recall off the top of my head. And this isn't like New Jersey where you know, hey, it's a special election and it's just after 24 and there weren't that many people that pulled it. And so of course we were surprised. No, this is like a lot of people were interested in this race and good pollsters, you guys said 15%. Emerson is a good pollster and you know, they miss sometimes it's hard. It's getting harder and harder with all of this money, with all the electioneering, with the machine problems that we haven't fixed with the increase in mail in ballots. And so I look at that race and I say, well, what do we know so far? There was huge turnout. There was a really big mail in turnout and Syed massively underperformed the polling. And so what I'm looking at then is why did Sayed underperform the polling? Well, he was out competed. Stevens had a ton of money. They were probably doing the things that Democrats do in Democrat states to get their establishment candidate to win because she is the establishment candidate, which was probably handing out packs of cigarettes in the inner city and driving mail in ballots around to like nursing homes. Like all the things that we know about happen. I think that's what happened. And so, I mean, Trump's upset that the establishment Democrat won because now you're going to have a DSA candidate versus, let's be real, the establishment Republican. And that will be really the first time we see a race like that in a statewide race in a purple state. So I think the 26 race for Michigan Senate all of a sudden got really interesting.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. And I mean, this is what's interesting. So you talk about electioneering. We know the Democrats do this stuff. We know they play games. They, they pack, you know, these mail ins and these, all of this stuff. So he lost early city vote by 50 points. Like that doesn't make any sense. Usually the more progressive candidate wins it. This tells me that establishment Dems, especially in some of these black urban cores, they didn't like El Sayed and they were working against him doing all the shenanigans that we are now so accustomed to. Mark, am I wrong here?

[Mark Mitchell]

No, you're 100% right. And again, like, there's an aspect of this that we'll just never know. Looking, for instance, at the Emerson Cross tabs and polling's not perfect and the sub sample, excuse my dog, for black voters, is probably small and has a big margin of error. But their poll had Stevens winning by 40among black voters. And then you look at inner city, you know, districts in Detroit and it's like, okay, they're coming in 50, they're coming in higher than that in some places. Probably you have Clyburn that was shilling for the establishment candidate, probably out there, like knows how some of these electioneering rackets work. I'm not accusing anybody of anything, but so I think it's pretty clear like what probably happened. And we're seeing these kinds of things in other races too, where a lot of money gets poured in to help shore up an establishment candidate or ensure that they win.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[Mark Mitchell]

And again, like, you know, Sayed's crazy, like, yes, we should not defund the police. Right. Like, obviously he's crazy. But the problem that the Republicans have to wrestle with is that he's going to moderate and he's not going to run on that stuff. And he's going to run like, mom Donnie, which is just like, hey, let me give you a big economic hug. I'm here to help save you and fix things. And it's bad for the youth. That's going to appeal to people.

[Andrew Colvett]

Well, I want to ask a speculative question mark, which is there was also, there weren't super competitive Republican races, so their turnout was lower. But they had a primary for District 8, that's the Flint area. And there was a candidate who dropped out, had stopped campaigning, Thomas Smith. And he actually defeated pretty easily, like 17 points here, Amir Hasan, who was the endorsed candidate by President Trump. And so I guess it's worth asking, do you think this is some sort of name factor where people are getting spooked by these more Islamic sounding names and could that end up playing a role in the general election where we have Mike Rogers, super generic, you know, English sounding name versus Abdul El Said?

[Mark Mitchell]

So I'm going to try and provide what I think are like the core, you know, logic that applies to all these races when we look at them is that you have your firm straight ticket Republican base voter and you have your firm straight ticket Republican, Democrat voter. They're kind of two different people. The Democrat just wants to win. They don't really care so much about the candidate. The Republican would like to see the Republican do something. And because of that, and because traditionally Republicans don't do as much, there are less of those people. There are less of the core. We know this like we saw this nationwide electorally. But what there are is this surge volume of people who are a lot more malleable and less ideological and they don't care about things as much like the Muslims. That's going to turn them off. So if you're going with those people, you have to have a strategy.

[Charlie Kirk]

All right, Mark, I want to get into two things now. And that is the C Span caller. This clip is just gold. And I have to play it because I think there's lessons for the Republican side on this as well. And then I want to talk about how brutal this primary was. And you already got Hasan Piker saying, we're not going to mend fences. These guys were calling him a terrorist. And all this stuff. So there's, I think, some opportunity to exploit that. Let's go ahead and start with this sod. 11, this is C span college, 19 years old. His caller named Brooks play 11.

[Sarah Kleiner]

Brooks, did you vote today?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes, I voted today. I voted for Abdul Al said I like a lot of his policies, Medicare for all. But what really convinced me is I've seen Haley Stevens talk far more passionately about her support for Israel than anything she has for Michigan. So I feel voting for her would

[David Bleas]

leave blood on my hands and I can't do that.

[Sarah Kleiner]

And how old are you, Brooks? I'm 19.

[Charlie Kirk]

This is my first election. Very excited to vote for Abdullah said. So I guess the question is, Mark, and I know that you and Rich and some others have basically been saying, hey, this AIPAC money has become toxic. Whether it's right or wrong, whether it's justified or not. You know, a lot of people think of it as lobbying for a foreign country. We have to correct the record that these are Jewish Americans. Right. But they are interested in Israel. So that's, it's, maybe it's a distinction without a difference on some levels. But how prevalent is this when you're polling, especially Gen z, anybody under 40 or maybe even 50? And how much does this bleed into how Mike Rogers should message on this topic?

[Mark Mitchell]

Well, that's a lot to answer. First off, you're not going to see people put foreign policy very high on their list of interests when they go to vote. It's just not, it's like six, seventh or eighth whenever you stack rank these things. But Israel is an issue. And I would really bring up two issues. There's capitalism versus socialism and Israel. And the reason that these young people are going towards, you know, candidates like this is because they think that older people are too focused on Israel and they think that people aren't focused on their economic livelihoods. And that's the big one. So overwhelmingly economy is the number one issue. The young voters, I could just rattle off a ton of polling about how they think the entire system is cooked against them. And what's really wild is that most under 40 voters, including Trump voters, people that voted for Trump overwhelmingly support things that sound really socialist, like nationalizing industries or confiscating excess wealth. These are people who call themselves conservatives. I think it was over 50% of under 40 Trump voters in one of our polls said that they would actually vote for a socialist candidate. So the problem is an optics and messaging problem for the right. Okay. And things, in my opinion, that aren't going to work are putting Israel first or accusing other people of being a socialist. Young people don't really aren't scared by that. And even I don't think the xenophobia stuff like we talked about before the break is going to be very effective because I think these people want to be put first and are expecting authenticity and quite frankly the maturity to get into government and sort of like deliver on what you promised and what that needs to be. If you want to capture the under, really it's the under 50 voter now in my opinion is national economic populism. And I said this message to Trump last fall and hope I wish there had been more listening. And maybe now it's too late, I don't know. But what you need to give these people is something to vote for, a reason that Republicans long term will fix the problems that are structurally affecting young people in America. And that means providing some kind of meaningful alternative to socialism. And it ain't just more of the same like granddaddy's. Capitalism is not going to win. It might win for a little longer as long as you keep dumping advertising into the boomer linear television slots. But there's going to be a tipping point and the young people aren't going to be fighting the same right left battle that the older, more ideological generations are. It's going to be over putting themselves first and getting what they want. And unfortunately for Israel, they've made themselves a pretty big whipping boy over this. And I tried to say this was going to be a problem, but. And my advice for Trump wasn't like don't do the Iran strike. It's make sure that you show people that you're still putting their economic situation first despite whatever else you do. And they would let him get away with whatever. I mean, nobody really cared about Venezuela. We were in and out and we were still focused on the economy and the domestic policy agenda back.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, and listen, I think this, what everything you're saying, I basically, you know, I think there's really well articulated there and none of this should be interpreted as anti Israel or anti Semitic. No, I think we, you know, it bears repeating. We think that stuff is brain rot and it's garbage from the pit of hell. But when we're talking about pure politics, it's important to understand what young people are hearing, how they're interpreting it and what they're voting on. And your message here, I totally agree is economy, economy, economy. What are my felt realities? And we could tell people they have to cook their own burritos and they need to cook from home all they want. But at the end of the day, things are expensive. And that's not necessarily Trump's fault. I think he deserves a lot of credit for bringing inflation back down, especially when you're navigating the complexities of the Iran war. But the felt situation for many young people especially is that we just don't are not getting what we hoped we would get. And maybe those expectations were unrealistic, but that is a lived experience and that has political ramifications. So we just need a message on it. We need, we need big national messaging PR battles on this front about what we're doing to address the problems domestically. Okay, I've only got, I've only got a few seconds here, so I want to hit this last point. There is carnage after this primary mark on the Democrat side and I think we need to take note of it. Here's Hasan Piker talking about mending bridges. He doesn't like it. Sat 6 Like everyone being like, Abdul has a ton of work to do mending bridges. Here's the take nuke for you. Okay, you are all unbelievably Islamophobic pieces of. Ok, so we're not getting conciliatory messaging from the, the chief El Sayed pusher Hasan Piker here. What can Republicans do to exploit this mark? One minute.

[Mark Mitchell]

No, I think they can learn from the situation that what you're seeing is playing out on both the right and the left right now. There are people, intractable people in both sides who are fighting over basically Israel and the economy. And when I say the economy, it's not just prices. It's the idea that the entire economic system is cooked against younger people. This happened before Biden inflation. Remember Bernie Sanders was doing very well with young people long before the inflation was a problem. So what we have is an issue where the workers aren't being represented. There's too much globalism. Financialization and rent seeking have ruined everything. And right now, again, I think that's the biggest opportunity because it was a natural extension of Trump's platform, which is to realize we have to change the way the economy works for people in this country. Now, you can laugh at Hasan Piker. I don't know how effective it's going to be, but we have the same people that are trying to purify through subtraction, which is a term me and Rich both came up with. Not an effective strategy to build a coalition.

[Charlie Kirk]

Mark Mitchell, great stuff. Head pollster at the Honest Polling Company. Thank you, my friend. Talk to you soon. Gentlemen, let's get real for a second. Are you frustrated with today's woke dating scene? The apps, the games, the endless swiping. It's a waste of time finding a woman who shares your values, faith, family, patriotism. If it feels nearly impossible, it doesn't have to. Selective search, America's leading matchmaking firm is changing the game. They connect strong, successful men like you, men who love God, love America. Want a family with women who share your values. These are intelligent, faith driven women who put family first and still believe in traditional values. Imagine that if you're a single conservative man in his late 30s to early 50s in Southern California. Listen up. Selective search has an exclusive network of women ready for the real thing. Here's the best part. Their candidate program is 100% free and confidential. Some of our closest friends, the show have used selective search and let me tell you, they're meeting great, great women, high quality women. This is your chance. This isn't an app. It's your answer. The perfect conservative woman is out there waiting for you. Visit selectivesearch.com california today. Let the professionals introduce you to women already looking for someone like you in Southern California. Don't wait for the perfect match. Take action now. Go to selectivesearch.com California and start building the future you deserve. We have coach Tuberville, the great senator from the state of Alabama who's gonna be the next governor of that state. And we're sad to lose him from the senate, but given how crazy the Senate is getting, I can imagine that selfishly you are probably looking forward to a change of pace there, senator. So we gotta talk about it. You are Mr. Sharia, you are fighting it at every turn. We now have Abdul El Sayed, who is the Democrat primary winner in Michigan. He's a man of Egyptian descent, he spent his summers in Egypt. He talked about that last night. And he's a radical communist and he's gonna be the Democrat standard bearer in that state up against Mike Rogers. Your take, sir.

[Senator Tommy Tuberville]

The enemy is inside the gate and they're coming hard. And unfortunately, our education system has pushed a lot of our younger kids. And then of course, we have Democrats that are actually Democrats, but there are followers, they're not leaders and they're following this socialist communist agenda to a T. And we're fighting it every day here, but we don't have enough fighters on our side. On the Republican side, you know, we think everything's going to run on autopilot and it's going to be okay. If we don't straighten out this country's voting. If we don't straighten out this country's immigration system, we're not going to make it. It's going to be over with. And as you said, I'm gonna go back to Alabama and we're, hey, we might build a 30 foot wall around our state. Because I know what's coming. I can see it coming. I can hear it coming. I can, you know, you can just smell it out there that they want to take this country over. And they're not, you know, they're a lot more aggressive than we are as Americans.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, I think that's right. So this is, this is Abdul El Sayed talking about his American experience. Stop. 4. I know what America gave me. I spend summers in Egypt.

[Andrew Colvett]

I got my medical education paid for by the NIH. And at the same time growing up

[Mark Mitchell]

just 15 minutes away from me, children

[Charlie Kirk]

whose families had been here far longer

[Andrew Colvett]

than mine, who never got those same opportunities.

[Charlie Kirk]

So he's talking about economics, he's talking about Medicare for all. He's talking about making things more affordable. This is their messaging. But it's all gonna lead to disaster. It's been tried time and time again, but there's a couple issues. Senator, we have economic illiteracy with so many young people. It's just a fact. I mean, I've talked to them. These are good kids. They're good patriots. They love their country. They just don't. They don't. I'll never forget we were doing a roundtable for our chapter leadership summit and one of the girls around the table, Senator, said that maybe a solution was increasing the minimum wage, as if that would have any practical impact on anything other than making things more expensive. But this is a problem because this message is rosy and I'm worried that we are not, as Republicans, countering it with a positive vision of how our ideas are actually the ones that are going to work. And I'm worried we're not focused enough on that. Your take?

[Senator Tommy Tuberville]

Yeah, well, we don't have a game plan. I mean, there's no plan in intact up here from the federal government that takes this back to our kids all over the country and explains to them the difference between socialism, communism and being a capitalist country. They don't realize how good we have it here. Now, I can understand a lot of them going to these universities and getting a degree in sociology and spending $150,000 or barring $150,000 and getting out and they can't get a job at Walmart because they didn't get a degree that actually you can get a job. Our universities have become a business instead of a educational institution. They want to make money. They. They enable all these WOKE professors that have been there for years, that are on tenure to preach whatever they want to preach. And. And they're not controlled. So we got a lot of problems. And President Trump wants to take education out of the federal government. He's exactly right. We have to do that. If we don't, that's going to be a continuation of just indoctrinating these kids in this WOKE ideology. But again, that and then immigration, of letting these people come here from countries. Totally agree. That. That just. That have no clue. This guy says we deserve 9, 11. What? It's what's been 25 years. It hadn't been that long ago. What are you talking about? Oh, and I got my degree because of nih. Who you think paid for your degree? Capitalists in this country paid money, tax money, and NIH has stolen it for years and given it to people all over the world. It is. We've got a broken system. The federal government's broken. President Trump's trying to put it back together, but unfortunately he's been fought from both sides, from Republicans and Democrats.

[Andrew Colvett]

Coach Tuberville, I think it's. We had a writer on Helen Andrews yesterday, and she talked about what should really frighten us is how easy these figures like Hassan Piker, like El Sayed, these guys who, their parents weren't born here, maybe they themselves weren't born here, but how adept they are at using this lingo of white supremacy of America as a racist country, as America is a nation that needs to atone and pay reparations, and especially to people like themselves or their parents or their kids who. Who only recently arrived here. And we were also discussing this in context. We still have Republicans on Capitol Hill who say we need more guest workers, more migration from the third World. We're basically sticking our head into a noose here of let's bring in people who are adopting this rhetoric of let's destroy America and we're just feeding it to them. And it's so easy for them to build their entire lives and now win elections around it. Like, who are they fooling?

[Senator Tommy Tuberville]

Yeah, we're. We're walking into a war zone without a gun, and there's nobody fighting back. Everybody, let me tell you what happens up here. We're more worried right now about going out and campaigning and trying to keep a majority than we are doing what we should do. How about we take care of the American people. Don't worry about getting elected. I mean, we don't try to play to win up here. All we try to do is survive. And that has gotten us in trouble. We should be passing everything in the world. Bust a filibuster. Because folks, it is coming when they get control. And it's not going to be too far down the road with the people we have elected now up here in the Senate and the House, by the way, that we're going to be controlled by these communists and it's going to be game, set, match. I mean, we are, we're on the last leg. I mean, this is not where this could happen 30, 40, 50 years from now. It's going to happen a year or two from now if we don't understand what is happening. But again, we got too many people that love power. We got too many people that are greedy. We have too many people that really don't understand anything other than I just want to come back up here. I want to, I want to have my name as a congressman or a senator.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, I mean, and that's true. They want that. They want the title. But we can't even get Republicans to stay in D.C. during the August recess. Now throw up. 182, you are proudly one of these people. And by the way, if you weren't, anybody who's not calling to cancel the August recess is not allowed on this show right now. I mean, probably ever. But182, throw the image up here. That's a good chunk of the GOP in the Senate and yet we can't get Leader Thune to get behind this effort and get the Save America act passed. Let's play cut 13.

[Senator Tommy Tuberville]

First is there are no Democrats who are going to vote for this.

[David Bleas]

All 47 voted against the SAVE act five times.

[Mark Mitchell]

So let's make this an issue in the campaign. How about we go out and turn our fire on Democrats and make it

[Charlie Kirk]

about them opposing the SAVE Act?

[Mark Mitchell]

So we're not. That's the point. So we're not getting any Democrats. The second thing is we are not

[Andrew Colvett]

getting rid of the legislative filibuster.

[Sarah Kleiner]

The votes aren't there to do that.

[Mark Mitchell]

I've made it abundantly clear many, many times. And it seems to me some days

[Charlie Kirk]

that I'm the only one here who

[Mark Mitchell]

can count to 50 in this town.

[Charlie Kirk]

I mean, I just hear that and I just hear it just get. Gets my blood boiling. I'm gonna be honest. We have had a trifecta of Republican control in the House, Senate and the White House. Five times in the last century, five times. Most of the time it's two year stints and he wants to use it for the next election. Has he not looked at the polling we've got like time is short. I cannot for the life of me wrap my head around what the hell he's talking about. Cancel the August recess. And I'm sorry to get worked up, but this is just, I've been, this has been building up in me for so long. Senator, I know you gotta keep things collegial cuz it's what you senators kinda have to do, but what is going on? Why can we not cancel the stinkin August recess?

[Senator Tommy Tuberville]

Well, first of all, there's a lot of Trump derangement syndrome up here. They want the country to stay, stay the way it was. They don't understand how it's, how it's changing underneath us as we speak.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes.

[Senator Tommy Tuberville]

I mean there's a war going on out there. This is not the America that we knew just five, six, seven years ago. This has totally changed. And the President, he sees it. He sees it, okay? You know, things have to change here. You got to bust a filibuster. The only way we're going to keep majority is bust a filibuster, pass everything we possibly can at 51, get the country back on track. Because when and if they do, eventually they went, they're going to bust the filibuster. The only way. Yeah, the only way we can get reelected up here is do something for the American people. Let me tell you something, there's going there, people are going to fight their tails off. If we go on recess at the end of this week, we will not come back until the middle of September. Then we'll go two weeks, then we're gone again for another month and then we have the midterms. It's gonna be games that match. You know, they're looking at us going, we gave the majority and you're not doing anything. Why should we get.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, and why exactly? Listen, I am of the perspective that the Democrats are unacceptable, okay? This country cannot absorb another 3 to 5 million illegals every year under the Democrat rule, okay? We can't, we can't. So that is out of the option list, okay? They have lost their minds. They're a bunch of communists. Obviously that's unacceptable. But for the love Republicans, if you don't do your job, people in the middle normies, people that are not clued in are not gonna Come out and vote for you if you don't deliver. If you wanna get elected again, deliver for the people. We're out here screaming and hollering, begging these people in D.C. to listen to us. And I got like you and Mike Lee. I just, I cannot wrap my head around it. Senator, it's so frustrating. I know you're not done railing against the Save America act, the fact that we can't get this done. So the floor is yours, sir.

[Senator Tommy Tuberville]

Yeah, well, it's mind boggling to me how we even have Republicans are against this one said a draconian. Let me explain it this way. Since I've been here, there's about 12 to 14 states in this country we'll never win. As conservative Christians, constitutionalists, we're not going to win because they cheat the heck out of us. They're all rigged and there's over a dozen of them. And so those states will never get a congressman, will never get a senator, obviously won't get a governor. But at the end of the day, if you look at this, it's growing a couple, two, three, possibly a year. We're going to get to a point we're not going to have any majorities in this country. So we're going to get run over. So that's a reason we have to. In the past you probably didn't need federal oversight of these elections, but you do now because these people are bound and determined to cheat at every turn. And so that's the reason we need the Save America Act. Now we're going to have one shot at it, I think possibly this weekend. And we're going to do a reconciliation of trying to get a supplemental for the military which they need about $60 billion. And we're going to try to connect it with that. Now somehow, some way, we'll have to word it where the parliamentarian will keep it in there. Now this parliamentarian is a Democrat. She should have been fired when we took over, but we didn't do it. It was a, I think a Harry Reid appointment. But we can fire the parliamentarian and if she doesn't go along with this, our leader John Thune needs to fire immediately because that's what happened. Trent Lott fire fired a parliamentarian when she didn't agree with or he didn't agree with him years ago and it got got something across the finish line. We better start playing hardball here because we're playing softball, we're playing, oh, we're Mr. Nice Guy. The hell with that. We have to start playing Hardball and get to Save America across the line. It will not make a lot of difference in this election coming up. But the years to come, if we don't, we're going to lose more and more of these states that are going to figure this out and how to cheat, how to change balance, do the things they need to do, and this country will be gone.

[Andrew Colvett]

I actually would disagree with you on this election, Coach Tuberville, for one very important reason, which I think, Andrew, you'd agree. We've been hearing about this all year, the Save America Act. President Trump has been touting it. We've heard Republican senators, some of the ones who are now slow playing it or saying we can't pass it, were making noises. Oh, yeah, we're gonna. We're working on this. We think we can find a way to get it through. And they've just done these delay tactics, delay tactics, delay tactics all year. And if they get all the way to election Day and it's not passed and everyone decides they were lying to us this whole year, it's going to murder our turnout.

[David Bleas]

They.

[Andrew Colvett]

You practically, at this point, I think, have an obligation to pass it, or the entire base is going to feel like they were cheated in that day.

[Charlie Kirk]

Coach, you know, you go back to that Thune clip, he's saying, am I the only one in Washington who can count to 50? No, sir. That is an idiotic thing to say in a microphone. Okay, first of all. Second of all, just do the dang vote. Just do it. Go out on the floor and do the talking filibuster like Senator Lee has been proposing and put names on the board so we know who to primary next. If you're going to vote against this, then I want to know. Okay, that's. And by the way, the American people deserve that. They deserve the transparency. Go show that you actually are willing to let the process play out even if you don't have the votes. Stop covering for these cowards and make them put their name on the line.

[Senator Tommy Tuberville]

I totally agree with you. Now, the last time we put it for a vote was in reconciliation back in June. I think Lindsey Graham had it as an amendment. And we got 49 votes. We made progress. We made progress. We got 49. We can add more. But again, at the end of the day, it's either got to be a 51 vote. We can't get 60 because none of these idiots on the Democrat side are ever going to vote for it, but we can get to 51 through reconciliation if we just press people and Let them know how important it is. They'll start hearing from people back home. But if you don't vote it, vote on it, like you said, then your constituents don't know who's against it. And so this weekend will be a big test. It'll be a big, big deal.

[Charlie Kirk]

Is that Senator Country?

[Senator Tommy Tuberville]

It, I would say Friday or Saturday. And Ron Johnson wants a reconciliation. He's the new budget chair taking over for Lindsey Graham. He said he'll run the floor, he'll do it the right way, and I think we'd have a great chance again. We got to have a leader stand up and say, enough's enough of this.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. You know, Coach, this is the problem, I think, and I'm just being cards on the table. I've called for him to be removed now. And I think he's. He's earned every bit of that. And. But here's the deal. If you don't actually call the vote, if you don't do the things, then you're just a coward that's covering up for other cowards. Okay? I don't care if you don't have the votes. We want the vote to happen, and we want to see who's voting against the interests of the base. We want to see who is betraying conservatives. Because you're right, time is short. People don't understand what we're up against. The demographic landslide that we're facing as a country, the fact that we've got distractions in the Middle east instead of focusing domestically. This is serious business. So we got one last shot at this, and we got to get it done. Failure is not an option. Final minute to you, Coach.

[Senator Tommy Tuberville]

Well, you're exactly right. We got a lot of problems in this country, a lot of them, and we're stopping a lot of the fraud. You know, we lose $100 million an hour, 365 days to money that we lose to fraud and theft in this country. 100 million. How stupid is that? And that's the reason that we need Doge. We needed President Trump to come in. We got to cut back on these dang bureaucrats who are stealing us blind. The American people need to wake up and get out and vote. My God, folks, this is. This is. This is past serious. We only had 20% of the people vote in Alabama in the primary. 20%. We better get upwards of 50, 60, 70% in some of these states or we're going to get whitewashed. People are going to run right over the top of us. And especially these states that are going to jam the ballot boxes with. With all these fake ballots. So we got to go vote. We got to go vote and take our country back.

[Charlie Kirk]

And you saw that last night in Michigan, by the way they're stuffing ballot boxes. I mean, some of these returns didn't make any sense. The establishment Dems were doing all their electioneering shenanigans to try and rig it for Stevens. It wasn't enough, but it was darn near enough. I think the margin's 14k right now. I mean, it's, it's nothing. Syed's going to El Sayed is going to win, but they tried like heck to steal it. So we have to vote. You're absolutely right. The only thing that can overcome it is being too big to rig in these states because we haven't fixed crap.

[Senator Tommy Tuberville]

And the guy's a terrorist. He's a terrorist. Think about that.

[Charlie Kirk]

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[Andrew Colvett]

I don't know the last time I've actually had just a burrito.

[Charlie Kirk]

We're gonna do the bowl. You're gonna have one this week. It's gonna be a whole thing. But here to help us discuss is David Bleas. He's the pastor and director of Patriot Mobile Faith. You can find him on X at Faith Mobilized. He does a lot of great content, and he's got a. Just a really important perspective on. On this whole debate. So, Pastor, welcome to the show. It's great to have you. And I'm excited to get into this because the clip that started this whole kind of debate actually was one with our friend Jack Posobic. It was actually a back and forth. I mean, people are losing this, you know, that didn't like what Jack had to say. Like, you know, we had Mikey McCoy arguing with them on the clip. But anyways, we'll play the clip and then we'll get your reaction on the other side. SOP15, we are capitalists. We are fundamentally pro somebody spending their wealth how they want to spend their wealth. I don't.

[Andrew Colvett]

I don't think we should. I don't think we should center our country around capital.

[Sarah Kleiner]

I think that's.

[Andrew Colvett]

I think that's not Christian.

[Charlie Kirk]

All right, Pastor, your reaction to that now infamous clip?

[David Bleas]

Yeah, and then I want to talk about the burritos, because that's crucial as well.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes, it is.

[David Bleas]

But, yeah, so I saw this clip and, you know, the first thought that I had, you know, labeling, I'm not a capitalist. I don't know what that means. You know, maybe it's because we're saying, I'm a Christian first. You know, I can understand.

[Charlie Kirk]

I think so.

[Senator Tommy Tuberville]

Yeah.

[David Bleas]

And then he. He said, I don't think we should center our country around capitalism. And again, I like to give grace first. I'm a pastor. I need grace. We all need grace. Maybe he's saying, I want to center the country around biblical values and morality. Hey, that's great too. I agree with that. We don't want to center around a system, we don't want to center it around democracy. We don't want to center it around capitalism. We want to center it on the biblical morality, the biblical foundation that we're endowed by our creator. Our rights are given by God. The government only helps enforce those rights, protect those rights, not give those rights. However, I think this plays into just this idea that we see on social media about capitalism and socialism. And capitalism is sometimes just portrayed as greed. But here's how I always see really the value statement. Capitalism values freedom. And that is why it is not a perfect system. It's the best system that we've found economically because it values liberty, it values self determination, it values that you get to spend your own money and you get to be generous in if you choose so. Because generosity has to be a choice. The other option is socialism, which values fairness. And the government wants to take, you know, seize your capital and then they give it out. That's not generosity because you can't be generous with someone else's finances, with someone else's money. And so we have to be aware of what the foundation should be, Biblical morality, because that provides the guardrails for capitalism to succeed. Why would capitalism succeed? Because you have biblical guardrails. Then you know, the conservative party historically is way more generous. Why? Because they have the freedom to be generous. The downside of capitalism is if left unchecked, it will develop greed, it will develop selfishness, a love for money. The Bible has a lot to say about that. But the answer to that is not, well, then let's just get rid of capitalism. Because what you're saying is, let's get rid of the freedom, let's get rid of the choice. Well, God didn't do that. God didn't say, hey, Adam and Eve, you're done making choices, robots now. No, he said, essentially God says, I am going to risk what is on the other side of giving freedom, which is they could use that freedom to be generous or to be selfish, but that's the risk. So capitalism is the most biblical economic system that we have because it values freedom and choice, which is something the Bible has a lot to say about. And stewardship and generosity. It's not the perfect system. It reminds me of the quote about democracy. Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the other forms. So we're not looking for a Perfect system. We're looking for the most biblical system to run economics in a nation. And historically speaking, and biblically speaking, it's been capitalism. It doesn't mean it's perfect. Of course it can lead to greed and selfishness. But that's the, that's the, the totally, you know, the risk of freedom.

[Andrew Colvett]

I think that's, that's so correct. And I think you want to take the long view here. You mentioned that capitalism has given America the wealth to be generous. And I think it's worth reminding people how unusual America is in that regard, that we are a nation of givers in our own communities and around the world. Basically there are almost entire countries that are reliant on the charitable giving of Americans, that America is the country that produces missionary. Far more missionaries than any other country come out of America to go around the world. And I think that's directly linked to our free market system. Even our way of our, our very energetic church environment. The way that there is so many different competing Protestant churches, Catholic churches, that there were very on the ball religiously. And I think that's actually a side effect of having this capitalist worldview that if you don't like the way something works, you can go and make your own version of it. Well, and what we see in socialist countries is everyone instead, they, they lose the capacity to do that. It's always, the state should come in and bail me out. The state should decide this. I don't have the ability to decide for myself. And I eventually, you don't want to decide for yourself and anymore to the

[Charlie Kirk]

extent that it needs clarification, because I think there was some consternation about that clip. Like what does TPUSA stand for? No, no, no. We are pure capitalists. Like in the sense that we are very pro capitalism with guardrails, with biblical guardrails. We're not pro greed, we're not pro materialism. We're not pro worshiping at the altar of having billions of dollars or anything like that. Charlie would often say that capitalism is the most proven moral and effective economic system in the world. And you said it's the best we found. Well, it's kind of actually inverted. It found us in many ways. It's kind of a natural outflow of the human spirit of the way we are wired to freely exchange goods and services. Hopefully there's no lack of clarity on that front, but I love what you're bringing in. So much of the solution to our problems in this country is not more government. It's we need to be better people, we need to cry out to the Lord to make our country great. From a character standpoint, from a faith standpoint, that's the answer to so many of our problems. And when we invite government in it, usually in Reagan's famous words, I'm not a huge Reagan quoter all the time, but one of the scariest words in the English language is, I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Final minute in this segment to you.

[David Bleas]

Yeah, no, I think it's, I think it's really important. And I think when we understand the number one value of these two systems, capitalism values freedom, it values liberty. And that makes sense why America has been a capitalist nation is because what was the founding principle? Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, Or John Locke, Life, liberty and property. So what it's saying is that's a value statement. Number one thing is life, and then the other two are my personal happiness, my self determination and my liberty. The government can't take those away from me and they didn't give them to me. And you ask any person that values socialism, they value fairness. Hey, that's great. My kids love fairness too. But you know when they realize fairness is not the greatest value is when you go to a school and you say, hey, fairness, equal opportunity, right? That fair. Yeah, it's fair.

[Charlie Kirk]

Equal.

[David Bleas]

Equal opportunity in equal, you know, what is it called? Outcome. And they're like, yeah, yeah, that sounds good. Sounds right. And you say, okay, so here's your test scores. You got an A, you got a B, you got a C, you got a D, you got an F. Let's just. Everyone's gonna C minus sound good. Fair is like, that's fair. And then the A student's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, socialism is not fair to the producers and the people who work their tails off and sacrifice sleep and all this stuff. So you are the, your pastor and director of Patriot Mobile Faith. We love Patriot Mobile, by the way. Great capitalist company, great success story. All American success story. I want to talk about this distinction because I have talked to Jack about what he meant by that. And I'm assuming we're going to get to it in Thought Crime this week as well, which is our Thursday streaming show. So for him, he was saying, yeah, I'm a national populist, which incorporates capitalism. Right. But it's sort of a way of saying we're going to apply certain sensible regulations to make sure that we're directing and incentivizing capital in the country in ways that benefit the nation. Right. So as opposed to offshoring and hollowing out our industrial base and shipping all the jobs off to China in exchange for rubber trinkets that's gonna end up in the trash someday, we're actually going to incentivize through tax code regulation that companies invest here, that they hire American, that they do things that are good for the American population. So, you know, Jack wrote a whole book hitting communism and attacking Communism. By no means. I think it would be a very unfair interpretation of his comments to say that he was somehow, somehow against capitalism. But. But I do think that this is a worthwhile debate to have, and I think we're gonna be having it ahead of 2028 about the right way to talk about capitalism. And my concern, and then the floor will be yours, is that if we don't do this, young people are so inundated by this pro socialism message that they're gonna say, well, I don't want the old way as it's been. And this is a way to sort of filter that message and thread the needle and say, hey, we're hearing your concerns that the middle class, working class is getting hammered in some ways, especially when it comes to burritos and affordability, but we're not ditching capitalism. Your thoughts?

[David Bleas]

Yeah, I think when. When it gets down into the nitty gritty, which is one of the reasons why, you know, clipping up something can be so destructive because you take something out of context. Well, we do that with scripture too. We take one verse out of context and we can make it say whatever we want. And so I think what we have to constantly go back to, unfortunately, is defining terms. What do you mean when you say capitalists? And if someone says, oh, you know, I'm greedy, you know, money hungry, you're like, okay, that's not what I mean by capitalism. I mean, by capitalism, I mean the economic structure in which we value freedom of exchange, freedom of movement, you know, generosity, all those things, liberty. And so we have to. We have to define those terms and then juxtaposed to the other options. When you're talking about, you know, populism then, now we're, we're like you said, threading a needle. Okay, what do we mean by that? It's not anti capitalism, but we're wanting to benefit our nation first. Well, that's great. And the America first movement has then taken that to mean, okay, America first. And now we have to define, do we mean America first or America only? Because if we have this biblical foundation that we're talking about. The Bible has a lot to say about the church caring for orphans and widows, the Good Samaritan caring for your neighbor. And so as long as we mean America first, like the analogy often given of the oxygen mask coming down on the airplane and putting yours on first, because if I'm incapacitated, I can't help my neighbor. I totally agree with that. But if we're saying America only, that we shouldn't be involved anywhere outside of our own borders, well, that's taking away the biblical principle of generosity and kindness and loving your neighbor. So that's. I kind of always find myself having to go back to redefining terms that have been outlandishly used and personified to mean one small definition. Capitalism means greed or whatever it is.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. And, David, I have a perfect example of this. That pure unfettered capitalism. It can lead to excesses, it can lead to bubbles, it can lead to monopolies. This is why conservatives are reexamining the legacy of somebody like Teddy Roosevelt. Right. The famous trust buster. He believed that the monopolies that had developed during the Gilded Age had basically resulted in, you know, I guess, excessive prices for consumers, excessive influence among a very elite oligarchy that had developed, whether that be economic influence or political influence. And so he broke up some of those companies, and there are benefits that could be had from those types of things. Now, another limit that we put on capital is immigration. Right. Big businesses would love to flood the nation with unfettered mass migration of Third Worlders and cheap slave labor. And we have rejected that at the ballot box when we elected President Trump. Now, that doesn't mean that you have to be an absolutist on any of those things, but it does mean that obviously there are sensible things that you can do to regulate or incentivize the movement of capital to best suit your national interest.

[Andrew Colvett]

And I think. I think it's actually worth emphasizing that point that a friend of mine pointed out. I've been talking to him about this, and he says one of the better ways if you want to defend capitalism is just really defend against all the other stuff they want. Because so many of the people who are complaining about capitalism, they're actually totally in league with them on let's bring in the entire Third World here. So they'll actually concede them that point and say, oh, actually, yeah, let's give business, big business what they want. Endless migrant labor, endless slave labor, endless, like, literally illegal immigrants. They actually just want to crash America, blow it up. And we should be pointing that out and fighting against that. And you really just get. I think. I think you get capitalism almost as a side effect of it. You don't need to say we're shilling for business. You just say we're rejecting all of these ideas that are clearly motivated by people who hate America and want to burn it down.

[David Bleas]

I just think we're, as believers, we're called to hold the tension between oftentimes two incredibly unhealthy extremes. And media often wants to push to the extremes. And we find Jesus often holding a tension between compassion and truth and not having to sacrifice one for the other. And I think we can do that with almost every debate. What's the tension here? Because we're not going to go to these extremes. It's actually more nuanced. But as a comedian said, the new N word is nuanced. We don't want to talk about it. It's like, no, we need to talk about pastor.

[Charlie Kirk]

Ecclesiastes 7:18. Whoever fears God will avoid all extremes. God bless you. We'll talk to you soon. Hi, folks. Andrew Colvett here. I'd like to tell you about my friends over at why Refi. You've probably been hearing me talk about why Refi? For some time now. We are all in with these guys. If you or someone you know is struggling with private student loan debt, take my advice and give them a call. Maybe you're behind on your payments, maybe you're even in default. You don't have to live in this nightmare anymore. Why Refi will provide you a custom payment based on your ability to pay. They tailor each loan individually. They can save you thousands of dollars and you can get your life back. We go to campuses all over America and we see student after student who's drowning in private student loan debt. Many of them don't even know how much they owe. Yrefi can help. Just go to yrefi.com that's the letter Y. Then refi.com and remember, why Refi doesn't care what your credit score is. Just go to yrefi.com and tell them your friend Andrew sent you to talk about daylight savings time or standard time. We're going to have that debate. It's about to go down.

[Andrew Colvett]

Debate Standard time is superior.

[Charlie Kirk]

This is the problem with this debate. Everybody's so dug into their ideological trenches.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, but my, my trench is correct.

[Charlie Kirk]

So without further ado, I'm. I'm so excited about this. So we have Sarah Kleiner joining us. Welcome to the show. Sarah, I'm gonna give you a little bio here. You're the creator of the My Circadian app. You're board certified in applied quantum biology by the American Naturopathic Medical Board. You've spent over 15 years of working one on one with clients to optimize nutrition, lifestyle and mindset. Your goal is to shift the way we think about circadian rhythms, health, nutrition and light so we can better integrate those into our life and doesn't matter what stage of life or anything like that. So we're honored to have you. You come very highly recommended by Alex Clark, who's our official MAHA expert around here. So it's great to have you.

[Sarah Kleiner]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes, absolutely. So, Trump, President Trump wants permanent Daylight Savings Time. Blake wants Permanent Standard Time. What is the right answer?

[Sarah Kleiner]

I mean, the American Academy of Sleep Medicine and every single circadian scientist that I have ever spoken with is on the time of Permanent Standard Time. That's the one that aligns with our biological clock. We have mountains of evidence to show how important it is for anxiety, depression, obesity, heart health. I mean, we, we have the research available. And I have, I saw the. I guess it was a. A statement Trump put out yesterday that Riley was kind enough to send me and kind of have looked through a lot of that, and I have a lot of thoughts on some of the things he said. There's some, there's some half truths in there, but I'm definitely on Team Permanent Standard Time.

[Charlie Kirk]

You and Blake are on the same team. So that means I'm the odd man out and I have to play devil's advocate. I have to play devil's advocate here. So this is the quote from Trump. For many years, the vast majority of Americans have asked to make Daylight Savings Time permanent, but no administration has been able to get it done until now. I'm proud to announce the House of Representatives has passed the bill and it has now gone to the Senate for final approval. People are sick and tired of having to change their clocks twice a year. This we agree with. Right? The whole.

[Sarah Kleiner]

I do not want to change the clocks anymore. We agree with that.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. He says it's foolish, inconvenient in some cases, very costly for cities and states with watchtowers and hard to reach places. It costs millions of dollars. A recent case was made that it is also bad for your health and the anxiety it creates. Leading medical, crime and economic studies have shown that ceasing the biannual time change, giving us one extra hour of natural sunlight in the evenings, will Help decrease robbery and murder rates, reduce car accidents, et cetera, et cetera. So, okay, devil's advocate here. So Danny on our team grew up in the upper Midwest. He says that on standard time in the winter. I believe I'm getting this right. Standard time in the winter, it was basically dark all morning long. Or is that. Am I getting that right? That's what's so confusing about this.

[Andrew Colvett]

So because you're in the upper Midwest, the days are shorter, and when you're on standard time, the sun is also going down earlier in the evening.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, he basically doesn't want more dark at a certain time. I'm gonna find his note here. But he was. He's. He's very, very open to this permanent daylight savings.

[Andrew Colvett]

If we're on permanent daylight savings time, the sun is going to rise very late.

[Charlie Kirk]

Very late. Right. So this. Okay, so here, here's. Let me, Let me reboot the. There is a robbery issue. So when you have it light later at night, there is data to indicate that robberies decrease potentially as much as like 25%. So have you seen any of that data and do you agree or disagree?

[Sarah Kleiner]

I've seen the data. It's anywhere from 7% to 27%. So I'm definitely not going to refute that data. I don't want to have anyone fact check me. That's. That's data. However, this is basically going from November to February, and it's from the hours of 5pm to 8pm and it's a. It's a real trade off. What we do have is we tried this in 1974, and within about two months, the approval rate went from 79% down to 42% because there were children being killed at bus stops. And people hated it so much. They hated the dark mornings. They thought they wanted it because it's kind of the same thing happening again. Everyone, we're going to have this extra hour, and we're not really getting anything extra. We still have to deal with winter, which is a shorter photo period. You know, it's. That's not being talked about. And so what we're taking off the table is the ability for millions of people to actually get the morning light signal, which, as I've said, has robust data around it that they need in order to avoid a lot of health problems.

[Charlie Kirk]

This. This is. Okay, so I did have it backwards. So under. On standard time, if you do permanent standard time, it will get light earlier during those winter months, right? Yes.

[Sarah Kleiner]

It'll say how it's been. It'll It'll just be how it's been, because what we are in right now is. Is dst, Right. And then if the clocks change, if we just continue with current the way things are, then we'll do that falling back thing, and then in the spring, we'll spring forward. And. And it's when Trump is saying there's health issues associated with the time change, he's correct. But that is because we strip away that hour in spring. That's where we see the increase in heart attack and stroke, cardiac events, mental health episodes, car accidents, all of those things. So that is correct, but that is because we're changing the time and taking an hour from people.

[David Bleas]

Right.

[Charlie Kirk]

So if we just kept one or the other, we'd probably deal with some of these issues.

[Sarah Kleiner]

But we would love to just keep one. Right, right.

[Charlie Kirk]

But your argument is that that morning sun is really, really important for health outcomes. So if you go to standard time, it gets light a little bit earlier. So explain why that's so important. So you go, I've heard people tell me that when it in the morning, you got to sort of expose your body to natural sunlight to sort of kick your body into gear. What is that about?

[Sarah Kleiner]

Well, you have a master clock in your brain that is essentially primarily signaled by light. It's called the superchismatic nucleus. And when the eyes get this signal from light, it signals every single cell and organ system in your body, which also runs on a circadian clock, which is why in my practice, I have people reversing autoimmune conditions, getting pregnant after failed fertility treatments. I mean, I have a huge bank of people who have reversed health issues by simply doing this practice of going outside in the morning. So we. Like I said, the circadian research is robust here. And the argument I get, because I've spoken out on this a little bit on social media and gotten. This is one topic. Whenever I talk about it online, people get so angry.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, it's amazing. It's. It's amazing. The camps are firmly entrenched. The camps are firmly entrenched. You're right. You're wading into perilous waters.

[Sarah Kleiner]

Well, when you mess with people's time, you're messing with their life. It's very personal to them. I just think that we're there. They don't really understand how this works, because it's like, I've heard this old Indian proverb that says you're taking a blanket and chopping, you know, tearing off the top part of it and trying to sew it onto the bottom and say acting like it's better. It's not. Because if you don't get that signal in your eyes in the morning, if you don't get enough brightness, you're not, you're not clearing residual melatonin. You are not resetting those circadian clocks that influence your appetite regulation, mood. All of those things need that bright morning signal. So you might get this extra hour. But guess what? You're going to feel, feel kind of depressed and be at risk for obesity, lethargy because you never got that proper wake up signal. That again, the circadian science is pretty robust around this topic.

[Andrew Colvett]

I'm looking at the sunrise. I just, I'm plugging in sunrise in different cities on January 1st right now and then at an hour. If we were imagining permanent daylight savings time it would be. You wouldn't have the sun come up in like Minneapolis until about 9am if we were on permanent daylight savings time on this January 1st. So one of the shorter days of the year, it's about nine in Detroit. I checked Bismarck, North Dakota. So that's at the far western edge of Central Time. 9:30. A 9:30 sunrise there. If we had permanent daylight savings time right now it's happening in the 8 o' clock hour.

[Charlie Kirk]

So people are already at work and there's no sun and it's so bad.

[Andrew Colvett]

One of the things that's really makes this extreme. School starts so early because they want to make it so parents can take their kids to school and then go in. So you'll have elementary kids getting up 2, 3 hours before sunrise in these places so they can go to school.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, yeah. Dark at recess at 8 o', clock, 8:30, the sun doesn't rise for another hour and a half. That's. That is wild to think about. That's on day. Permanent daylight savings.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yes.

[Senator Tommy Tuberville]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

That. What does that do for children?

[Sarah Kleiner]

It's terrible for children. I mean children need the sunlight signal. It's so incredibly important for their hormones, for their brain. The number one treatment for, for anxiety and depression is bright light therapy upon waking. So that is very established research. And so we already have a depression and anxiety and mental health crisis going on with our children due to so many factors I'm sure we would agree on. I've got two kids myself and now we're going to strip away the ability for them to get that bright light signal which could potentially offset some of the negative impact of what they're already up against as a, you know, as a generation.

[Charlie Kirk]

Wow. Yeah. I mean it Just feels like we're making the right choice in the sense that we're trying to get rid of this pesky clock change, which seems, I mean, it seems like everybody's basically against that. And I would love to hear your thoughts out in the audience. Send us an email freedomarliekirk.com if you have any questions as well. What do you think you'd prefer Permanent daylight savings time or permanent standard time? A little lighter in the morning or a little lighter at night? That's the question. It sounds like we need that light signal early in the morning, which is something I've heard about and actually have tried it and just stood out there and tried to get sun in the morning. You do kind of feel, you do feel revived and awake a little bit faster. Why don't you tell us about your. My circadian app, Sarah?

[Sarah Kleiner]

Yeah, I've been coaching people in this circadian health space for the last number of years after actually having my own miracle baby in my mid-40s and he's three now. So I'm really passionate about this. Yeah, thank you. Awesome little boy. And circadian lifestyle helped make that possible. And so I wanted an app that helped people understand when sunrise happened for them, when uva, which we were talking a little bit about this morning light. UVA is when you're making serotonin, dopamine, beta endorphin. These appetite hormones all come online and I wanted them to understand when that was as well as when they could make vitamin D because you can't make it year round and then measure lux, which is this, you know, most well studied measurement of light. The app has a lux meter in it. You want to get a 10,000 lux threshold in the morning and you want to keep your lux below 10 at night, the three hours leading up to bed and zero in your bedroom. So you can measure that and that's going to really help you keep your circadian rhythms dialed in. And you kind of have it there in your pocket.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, that's great. So why would it affect fertility? I'm just curious.

[Sarah Kleiner]

Oh, man. Because like I said, every single cell and organ system in your body is impacted by the signal of light, your hormones, a circadian rhythm. And that morning sunlight signal is incredibly important for what we call the HPA axis, which is going to signal your master hormone, pregnenolone, to talk to the other sex hormones. So if you're not making these hormones, especially in the morning, you're going to deal with fertility issues. And then we have the issue at night. It was Women used to actually cycle with the moon. We have some really interesting data that came out in around 2010 that showed women stopped cycling. Actually, that the research came out in 2022. It was done in 2010 that showed women cycled with the moon up until that time. What happened in 2010? We all got smartphones, and so women fell out of sync. Their menstrual cycles became irregular in 2010 because of this artificial light at night issue that we all have now. So.

[Charlie Kirk]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on.

[Andrew Colvett]

So smartphones broke women's menstrual cycles?

[Sarah Kleiner]

It's a thing. That's wild. There have been books written on this topic.

[Charlie Kirk]

No kidding. Wait, so just because women are like scrolling Instagram at night, that broke their cycles.

[Sarah Kleiner]

I have women reverse hot flashes when I get them to get off the dang phone at night. So what's the kind of stuff I

[Charlie Kirk]

do if a woman wants to get pregnant and she just wants to make sure everything's, you know, her circadian rhythms are right? What time do you recommend stopping the scrolling?

[Sarah Kleiner]

I mean, the science is 10 lux and below the 3 hours leading up to bedtime. So.

[Charlie Kirk]

So you get more than 10 lux off your cell phone screen, even if you turn it all the way dark

[Sarah Kleiner]

and you get the blue light. Yeah, you get blue light. You get that lux. I mean, and that is enough to keep the brain making cortisol and restart kickstart that sex steroid hormone pathway at night, which is the opposite of what we want. We want melatonin to come in because melatonin is actually a very reproductive. Powerful reproductive hormone. It's actually a very powerful hormone for cancer prevention. So many things that if you look at the data with artificial light at night and cancer, you will be astounded. I mean, it is robust and a

[Andrew Colvett]

way a lot of people have tried to deal with is certainly on large computers, they'll get blue light filters so that, you know, basically makes their screen orange at night. I know. I definitely have seen women. They'll get. I think they get kind of these spectacles that are supposed to filter out blue lights.

[Sarah Kleiner]

They're not glad.

[Mark Mitchell]

I don't know. They're not.

[Andrew Colvett]

They're not for vision correction like me or even. And I imagine you can probably get a similar app for your phone. Does that do enough or is that just sort of putting a band aid over it? That doesn't do that much and you're better just not using it at all.

[Sarah Kleiner]

It helps. It absolutely helps. That's why I have that lux meter within the app because you can. You have to use your, your partner's phone to measure what's coming off your phone. Keep it below 10. Turn your blue light filter on where your blue blockers, that's going to help. But the other thing that can keep your brain making cortisol is the brain waves that you're going to essentially make from being on your phone. You're going to stay in a high beta state, which can also block melatonin. So there's a fine line. You have to walk with it. When I want people to be compliant, I'm going to say get the blue blockers, turn the dimness down on your phone, measure it, get red light bulbs in your home. That's going to help tremendously. But at the end of the day, I want you powered down and sleeping so you can make all that melatonin at night and reap those health benefits.

[Charlie Kirk]

So what about. So I know everybody's, I know you're going to tell me I'm doing it wrong and that's probably fair. I watch TV at night before I go to bed or I read a book. So it's one of the two. And I try and do more reading. Admitted, like for years I was like not reading, I was watching TV and now I'm about 70% of the time I'm reading a book before I go to bed. But the wife and I will watch a show together or something. You know, put the kids down. How bad, how bad is that? I tend to just like conk out. Like it doesn't seem to affect me. But how bad is that and am I doing it wrong?

[Sarah Kleiner]

Yeah. Well, the great thing I love about the app is that you can take your blue blockers, put them over the lens and measure at eye level. Because I like to watch a show every Sunday night. Right now this on I like one show a week. I let myself do that. So I'll sit from where I'm at on my couch, measure the Lux, I'll have my blue blockers on and I can typically get even my big TV down to about 6 luxury without doing anything. So we're the blue blockers. Watch your show every now and then. Stick to your 70% reading and you're going to be ahead of most people. So.

[Charlie Kirk]

But you said the brainwaves though, even. Aren't you still having some of those brainwaves that are keeping you up with reading?

[Sarah Kleiner]

Yeah, it's a, it's a trade off. I mean, it depends on what you're reading, right? It really does.

[Charlie Kirk]

Reading About English history.

[Andrew Colvett]

I mean, is it better to read really trashy novels or something that are like low brain effort versus, I don't know, philosophy?

[Sarah Kleiner]

I mean, it's really dependent on the person. I think you'd probably be fine with philosophy or history rather than, you know, murder mysteries or some of the trashy novels people like to read that, that might get you upset or emotional. You're probably safe with what you're reading, in my opinion.

[Charlie Kirk]

And yeah, you know, we're just not thinking about light. I mean, because you think about ancient man. Right? Like not even ancient man, just pre electricity man.

[Sarah Kleiner]

Right.

[Charlie Kirk]

It was like, you know, you had candles or you had little oil lamps. I mean, that was essentially your light at night and it kind of forced you to go to bed with the rhythm of the sun. So your whole body is oriented around this. It's just we don't observe it anymore because we have electricity, we have artificial light. I mean, how much of our modern health, because I know there's so many areas of health, but how much of our modern health do you think is actually tied in? Our problems are tied to this light issue.

[Sarah Kleiner]

Oh, so much. Look into Dr. Glenn Jeffrey. Look at his research on the mitochondria. Since you guys are talking mitochondria, look at how red light and near infrared impacts mitochondria positive and blue light specifically impacts mitochondria negative. And our indoor environments are completely devoid of red and infrared light since we got rid of the incandescent bold. And we are in these blue rich, heavy environments that are actually slowing down our mitochondria, slowing down our metabolism and it's, it's created. He, he's likened it to asbestos.

[Charlie Kirk]

What, what light bulbs you recommend we get at home?

[Sarah Kleiner]

Infrared, if you can get them, incandescent are always going to be the best.

[Charlie Kirk]

That was really fascinating conversation. I loved it. Hopefully you guys did at home too.

[Andrew Colvett]

Thank you. Standard time forever.

[Sarah Kleiner]

Yes, Team standard time.

[Charlie Kirk]

See you guys tomorrow.

[Andrew Colvett]

For more on many of these stories

[Charlie Kirk]

and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.