What is Suicidal Empathy and Is It Destroying the West?

Summary

Podcast Title: The Charlie Kirk Show
Episode: What is Suicidal Empathy and Is It Destroying the West?
Release Date: June 27, 2025

---

Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Charlie Kirk Show, host Charlie Kirk engages in a thought-provoking dialogue with two esteemed guests: Dr. Gad Saad, a visiting professor and global ambassador at Northwood University, and Dr. Paul Ray, a professor of history at Hillsdale College and a renowned war historian. The discussion delves deep into the themes of Islam's influence on Western societies, the dynamics of immigration, and the geopolitical tensions in the Middle East, all underpinned by the concept of "suicidal empathy."

---

Islam's Influence and Western Values

Dr. Gad Saad opens the conversation by addressing the growing influence of Islam in Western nations. He articulates concerns about the compatibility of Islamic values with Western civilization, emphasizing the stark differences in jurisprudence and cultural norms.

• Key Points:
  • Incompatibility of Sharia Law: Dr. Saad highlights Sharia law's fundamental differences from American jurisprudence, noting, “Sharia law purports that the severity of a punishment depends on the identity of the perpetrator and of the victim. In that sense, it couldn't be any more antithetical to American jurisprudence, which basically says that lady justice has to be blind” (03:15).
  • Parasitic Mind and Suicide Empathy: He introduces the concept of "parasitic mind," explaining how progressive empathy towards minorities can inadvertently support ideologies that are misaligned with Western values.

Charlie Kirk probes further into why secular Westerners, especially in metropolitan areas like New York, support political figures who may not uphold Western values. Dr. Saad attributes this to a phenomenon he describes as "Islamophilia," fueled by a misguided sense of protecting the underdog.

• Notable Quote: “The noble Gazans are the sweet boys. The Israelis are the mean Guys. And so that just comes from the reflexive bent of progressives to always go for the minority” (04:40).

---

Immigration and Demographic Shifts

The conversation transitions to the topic of immigration and its long-term impacts on Western societies. Dr. Saad asserts that mass immigration, particularly from Muslim-majority countries, poses a strategic challenge.

• Key Points:
  • Demographic Warfare: Dr. Saad outlines a three-pronged strategy purported by Islamic theorists to influence the West:
    1. Demographic Fertility Battle: Increasing birth rates within Muslim communities to outnumber native populations.
    2. Hijra (Immigration): Utilizing open border policies to increase Muslim populations in the West.
    3. Exploitation of Freedoms: Leveraging Western liberties to undermine societal norms (07:34).
  • Cultural Values Clash: He emphasizes that cultural values are paramount, stating, “Cultures have values. Religions have values. It is perfectly reasonable for a host society to say, you're only welcome here as long as you completely reject some of the values that are antithetical to ours” (09:10).

Charlie Kirk references his upcoming book, Suicidal Empathy, seeking strategies to counteract these demographic and cultural shifts. Dr. Saad reinforces the need for Western societies to uphold their foundational values to prevent cultural erosion.

---

Comparative Analysis of Abrahamic Religions

Dr. Saad provides a comparative analysis of Abrahamic faiths, highlighting Islam's aggressive proselytizing nature compared to Judaism and Christianity.

• Key Points:
  • Proselytizing Nature of Islam: “Islam is the ultimate successful marketing strategy in 1400 years, Charlie. They have nearly 2 billion people” (11:28).
  • Impact on Personal Liberties: He warns that where Islam gains a foothold, personal liberties suffer, drawing on historical examples from Egypt, Lebanon, and Pakistan (12:04).

Charlie Kirk challenges the notion by questioning the characterization of Muslims, leading Dr. Saad to clarify that while most Muslims are peaceful, the doctrinal elements of Islam can lead to the erosion of Western freedoms.

---

Geopolitical Dynamics in the Middle East

Transitioning to a broader geopolitical analysis, Dr. Paul Ray provides an in-depth examination of the Middle East's complex landscape, focusing on Iran's enduring conflict with the West.

• Key Points:
  • Longstanding Conflict: Dr. Ray traces the roots of the Iran-West conflict back to the 1979 Iranian Revolution, highlighting the ongoing low-level war involving proxies like Hezbollah and Hamas (22:55).
  • Nuclear Ambitions and Proxy Wars: He discusses Iran's pursuit of nuclear capabilities and its support for militant groups to exert regional influence.
  • Geopolitical Rivalries: The historical rivalry between Sunni-majority Turkey and Shia-dominated Iran adds another layer to the regional tensions (30:40).

Notable Insights:

• Regime Vulnerability: Dr. Ray speculates on the potential for regime change in Iran, especially considering the aging leadership and the population's discontent with ongoing conflicts.
• Impact of U.S. Foreign Policy: He criticizes past U.S. administrations for perceived weaknesses that emboldened adversaries like Russia and China, asserting that strong leadership is crucial to deterring aggression.

---

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In the episode's final segment, both Dr. Saad and Dr. Ray offer their perspectives on the West's current trajectory and the necessary measures to safeguard its future.

• Dr. Saad: Emphasizes the importance of rejecting ideologies that clash with Western values and warns against the dangers of complacency.
• Dr. Ray: Highlights the need for strategic foreign policy and robust defense mechanisms to counteract ongoing and future threats.

Charlie Kirk reinforces the episode's central theme by underscoring the critical need for self-reliance, personal responsibility, and unwavering commitment to freedom to preserve Western civilization against emerging challenges.

---

Key Takeaways

1. Incompatibility of Islamic Values with Western Jurisprudence: Sharia law and cultural norms present fundamental challenges to Western legal and societal frameworks.
2. Demographic and Cultural Strategy: Islamic immigration policies and high birth rates are viewed as strategic tools to influence and potentially undermine Western societies.
3. Geopolitical Tensions: The enduring conflict between Iran and the West, coupled with regional rivalries, continues to shape global politics.
4. Call to Action: Upholding Western values, rejecting ideologies that threaten personal liberties, and implementing strategic policies are essential to preserving Western civilization.

---

Notable Quotes

• Dr. Gad Saad:
  “Sharia law purports that the severity of a punishment depends on the identity of the perpetrator and of the victim. In that sense, it couldn't be any more antithetical to American jurisprudence, which basically says that lady justice has to be blind.” (03:15)

• Dr. Gad Saad:
  “The noble Gazans are the sweet boys. The Israelis are the mean Guys. And so that just comes from the reflexive bent of progressives to always go for the minority.” (04:40)

• Dr. Paul Ray:
  “When Obama was president, he declared a red line in Syria and then they broke the red line and he did absolutely nothing. He then tried to suck up to the Iranian regime, showing weakness again.” (22:55)

---

Closing Remarks

The Charlie Kirk Show offers a stern warning about the gradual erosion of Western values through strategic cultural and demographic changes. By featuring experts like Dr. Gad Saad and Dr. Paul Ray, the episode provides listeners with an in-depth analysis of the challenges facing the West today and underscores the urgent need for proactive measures to preserve freedom and stability.

For more insights and updates, visit freedomarliekirk.com.

---

This summary aims to encapsulate the essence of the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who have yet to listen.

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here live from the Bitcoin.com studio. Dr. Gad Saad joins us and he criticizes Islam. And then we have Dr. Paul Ray all about what's actually happening in the Middle East. Is the regime weak or strong in Persia? Email us as always freedomarliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast. Get involved with Turningpoint [e-mail] that is tpusa.com when you start a Turning Point USA [e-mail] you guys can be rewarded in the fight for liberty and freedom. Become a member today. Members.charliekirk.com that is members.charliekirk.com okay everybody. It is the event of the summer coming up in Tampa, Florida. It's an event unlike any other. It is our student Action Summit. All ages are welcome. It's sas2025.com we have Pete Hegseth coming, Kristi Noem, Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, Donald Trump Jr. Steve Bannon, Greg Gutfeld, Laura Ingram, Ross Ulbricht, Byron Donalds, Tom Homan, Ben Carson, Brett Cooper, Michael Knowles, Brandon Tatum, Benny Johnson, Jack Posobic, riley gaines, james o' keefe and more. That is sas2025.com you can find your future wife, your future husband, your future soulmate, a future job and a career. Go to sas2025.com that is sas2025.com for this game changing life changing event. So take a look at it right now at sas2025.com sas2025.com Buckle up everybody. Here we go. Charlie. What you've done is incredible here.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

[Unnamed Supporter]

I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy, his spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.

[Charlie Kirk]

We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold [e-mail] that is noblegoldinvestments.com it's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegoldinvestments.com Joining us now is Dr. Gad Saad, a great friend of mine, visiting professor and global ambassador at Northwood University, author of the Sad Truth About Happiness and the parasitic mind. Dr. Saad, great to see you.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

How are you, sir?

[Charlie Kirk]

So, Dr. Saad, I'm doing well. You were the first guest that we thought of, someone who could really speak truth to power about what we're seeing in New York and a broader takeover of the west by Islam. And I said something yesterday. I said, look, it doesn't feel right or seem right that the west is quickly being taken over. Both London and New York are going to have Muslim mayors and having third world immigration that has made that possible. Dr. Saad, how should we think about all of this?

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Look, Islam, like any ideology, has certain defining tenets, some of which might be perfectly consistent with our values, but many of which, regrettably, are perfectly inconsistent with our values. So take for example, Sharia law, which is Islamic law. It purports that the severity of a punishment depends on the identity of the the perpetrator and of the victim. In that sense, it couldn't be any more antithetical to American jurisprudence, which basically says that lady justice has to be blind. And so the people who say, hey, you know, all religions have good, good and bad. I mean, in a very idiotic sense, that's true. But, you know, Jains, people who practice Jainism, are extremely pacifist, so much so that when they walk down the street, they use a broom so that they don't inadvertently step on any ants. Regrettably, Islam is not as peaceful as Jainism, and therefore we must make sure to let in people who share our values.

[Charlie Kirk]

But why is this so complicated? And so why is it that secular Westerners, especially in New York, feel go out of their way to try to elect someone like Mamdani, who has, by no way whatsoever could you say, this guy is a believer in Western values. What drives that?

[Dr. Gad Saad]

So, I mean, there are several reasons, one of which is so Islamophilia, the love of Islam stems from several parasitic ideas, one of which is that Islam, because it is in the minority status in the west, so far it is viewed as the underdog. And of course, progressives with their suicidal empathy love to view the underdog as downtrodden. And therefore we need to protect it. Of course, what they don't know is that Islam is the majority position in 56 countries that constitute the Islamic Organization, the IOC OIC Organization of Islamic Cooperation. And so therefore they have this reflex, right? The noble Gazans are the sweet boys. The Israelis are the mean Guys. And so that just comes from the reflexive bent of progressives to always go for the minority.

[Charlie Kirk]

And so what further about Islam do you wish or want Western Westerners to know about? Do you think that Islam is compatible with Western civilization?

[Dr. Gad Saad]

The short answer, no. Of course, millions of Muslims decide to ignore the, you know, the incongruent elements of their religion. They're practicing cafeteria Islam, right? They're choosing the parts that they agree with and they're ignoring the parts that they don't agree with. But once Islam becomes, never mind a majority, if it becomes a strong minority, we have 1400 years of history that tells us what happens to all of the foundational values that we hold dearly in the west, right? I mean, you don't have to, you know, believe me, you could just study history, right? I mean, almost every single one of the 56 countries that I mentioned a few minutes ago started off with having zero Islam. And then you close and open your eyes, suddenly it's 99.9% Islam. How did that happen? In some cases it takes five years for it to happen. In some cases it takes 500 years to happen. But inshallah, it will always happen. I'll mention one other things. Many of your viewers may not know this since 911 alone, Charlie, so that's 24 years. There have been 47,000 plus terror attacks committed by Islamic terrorists in nearly 70 countries. And now there are multiple databases that you can use to prove that this number is correct. 47,000 terror attacks. So that should give you a sense of whether Islam is compatible with the west or not.

[Charlie Kirk]

So why is it that so many Muslims are moving to Western countries? Is it just economics or is there something more ideological at play here?

[Dr. Gad Saad]

It's both, of course. Many, many Muslims have no interest in conquering anyone. And they want, as you just said, exactly what you said, which is, I want better economic opportunities for me and my children and so on. But. But the Muslim Brotherhood and many other Islamic theorists and scholars and politicians have said that we will conquer the west through three means. And I hope that your listeners and viewers take note. Number one, we will conquer the west through the womb of our women, right? So that's a demographic fertility battle. We will produce five children, you will produce 1.2 children, and we will outbreed you. Number two, we will conquer the west through hijra. Hijra is the Arabic word for immigration. And that's exactly what we do with our open border policies. And number three, we will conquer the west by using your miserable freedoms and liberties against you. They're screaming this out from the top of the mountain and yet most Westerners choose to ignore it. Charlie, it is so galling. It is so frustrating. I escaped that world I 45 plus years ago and here it is now, hunting me down 50 years later.

[Charlie Kirk]

And it's what can we do to fortify ourselves against this? And mass immigration leads to bad policies. You become what you import. And I know that you're working on a book called Suicidal Empathy, but help me further understand the fortification strategy to help prevent this.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Well, demography is indeed destiny, right? I mean, a culture is defined by the values that the majority of people share in that culture. Cultures are not all equal, right? Cultures that throw gays off rooftops are not as good as cultures that don't. Cultures that don't engage in feminine female genital mutilation of their little girls are not as good as cultures that don't. And so on and so forth. So cultures have values. Religions have values. It is perfectly reasonable for a host society to say, you're only welcome here as long as you completely reject some of the values that are antithetical to ours. If yes, welcome in, my brother. If no, stay from where you came from. I mean, it's as simple as that. But again, Charlie, the reflex in the west, hence parasitic mind and suicidal empathy. People in the west have been taught that it is gauche, it is callous to ever criticize someone's religion. And that's what makes most Westerners so impotent, to ever criticize Islam. Because they say, well, you know, I've got my religion, they have theirs. Who am I to judge them? Well, you should judge if those values are inconsistent with those that you hold dear.

[Charlie Kirk]

And people in the west assume that Western values are universal and they're not. What in particular makes Islamic values incongruent? Western values? What are the specifics you would say?

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Well, there are many, but one of which. So look, all Abrahamic faiths have a coalitional psychology, us versus them, right? The Jews say they are the chosen people and they are the goys. The Christians say they are the ones who accept Jesus are going to heaven and the rest who are going to hell. The Muslims say that they are the believers and the kuffar the non believers, which is kind of a derogatory term. But there is something unique in Islam in that the doctrines of Islam spend an extraordinary amount of time being very concerned about those that don't share their faith, right? So, for example, Judaism is not a proselytizing Religion. That's why there are only 15 million Jews in the world. There are as many Jews today in the world as there were at the start of the Holocaust. Roughly.

[Charlie Kirk]

Totally.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Okay. Whereas, whereas Muslims, in a sense, it's the ultimate successful marketing strategy in 1400 years, Charlie. They have nearly 2 billion people. So Islam is successful. Judaism sucks at marketing itself. And so there are many elements within the contents of the doctrines of Islam that make it uniquely dangerous. And again, this doesn't take away from the fact that most Muslims are perfectly nice and sweet and peaceful. But where Islam goes, personal liberties die.

[Charlie Kirk]

And think about even within that statement, doctor Said. Okay, they're peaceful and sweet because we're comparing them to Western values. And so if you compare a Muslim to Muslim values, so they're sweet by our standard, is what I'm saying. And so insofar that they will comply to the Western standard, then fine, of course. But what, what is the. What is a good Muslim? What in a Muslim standard, what is a good Muslim look like?

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Well, certainly one, by doctrinally speaking, is certainly one who is working to unify the entire globe under the unifying flag of Allah. Right. So that, that should give shivers down the spine of most people. Look, Egypt used to be fully 100% Coptic Christian country. Fast forward many centuries, it's now 10% Coptic. Lebanon, during my lifetime when I grew up in Lebanon was a majority Christian country. Fast forward 45 years, it is a largely Muslim majority country. What happened to the Syrian Christians? What happened to the Iraqi Christians? What happened to the Pakistani Christians? So again, it's not as though Islam always goes into a place and decapitates everyone who's not Muslim. But by one mean or another, once Islam takes a foothold somewhere, then the trajectory is very clear. And so if we wish to have the United States become an Islamic countries, stay with the current open border policies and in 500 years, we'll all be named Muhammad.

[Charlie Kirk]

What a smart point that in the Islamic texts they spend so much time about people who do not share their values. Christianity spends a fair amount of time of it, but nowhere near Islam. Though it doesn't seem there are like direct calls in Islam of what to do for those that don't believe. And it's a very pernicious preoccupation. Every fourth of July, I think about what it really means to be free. It's not just fireworks and cookouts. It's remembering that our freedom was earned. And keeping it means taking responsibility for ourselves and our families. That's why I shop at my Patriot Supply. They're an American owned and operated company that helps me stay prepared for whatever comes from storms and blackouts to shortages, supply chain issues and worse. I've stocked up on emergency food kits, water filtration, solar backup power, and I sleep better knowing my family is covered if things go sideways. And right now my Patriot Supply is having a huge fourth of July sale. So if you've been thinking about getting prepared for emergencies, this is a great time to do it. Shop the sale now at mypatriotsupply.com that is mypatriotsupply.com if you believe in self reliance and personal responsibility, go to mypatriotsupply.com Kirk today mypatriotsupply.com kirk today I want to play 526 and then let Dr. Sad just riff. This is if Rush Limbaugh was king and we should have listened to rush. This was 20 years ago. 20 years ago I should get a hat. Rush was right about everything. Play cut 526.

[Unnamed Supporter]

Everybody's making immigration proposals these days. Let me add mine to the mix. Call it the Limbaugh Laws. First, you immigrate to our country. You have to speak the native language. You have to be a professional or an investor. No unskilled workers allowed. Also, there'll be no special bilingual programs in the schools with the Limbaugh laws. No special ballots for elections. No government business will be conducted in your language. Foreigners will not have the right to vote or hold political office. If you're in our country, you cannot be a burden to taxpayers. You are not entitled to welfare or food stamps or other government goodies. You can come if you invest here an amount equal to 40,000 times a daily minimum wage. If not, stay home. But if you want to buy land, it'll be restricted. No waterfront, for instance. And as a foreigner, you have to relinquish individual rights to the property. And another thing, you don't have the right to protest. You're allowed no demonstrations, no foreign flag waving, no political organizing, no badmouthing our president or his policies. You're a foreigner. Shut your mouth or get out. And if you come here illegally, you're going to jail. You think the Limbaugh laws are harsh? Well, every one of the laws I just mentioned are actual laws of Mexico today. That's how the Mexican government handles immigrants to their country. Yet Mexicans come here illegally and protest in our streets. How do you say double standard in Spanish? How about no mas?

[Charlie Kirk]

Dr. Saad, react to the great Rush Limbaughs as a conversation starter, he is missed.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Look, I don't know about the 40,000 wage. I'd have to calculate whether that number makes sense or not. But the general gist of what he's saying, I mean, I couldn't agree more, right? I mean, what is it that allows, what's the logic of having illegal immigrants more money spent on them than American vets who've lost limbs fighting, defending our liberties? It's insane. I mean, hence that's the exact point of my next book, Suicidal Empathy. So yes, Rush Limbaugh is right about everything.

[Charlie Kirk]

In closing here, Dr. Saad, what would you said the west is a woman to be mounted. That is the Islamic creed. Remind us of it.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

So that that quote comes from. So prior to people knowing who I am, I mean now I couldn't get away with it. But in the past, because Arabic is my mother tongue, I would hold conversations with all sorts of, you know, Muslim and Arabic speaking people to sort of gauge their, their sentiments about things. And I would repeatedly hear from Arabic speaking, Muslim speaking immigrants, in this case it was in Canada, always say that the west is a woman to be mounted. And what the reflex that that captures is that all of the virtues that we think as laudable in the west, compassion, magnanimity, generosity, empathy, are heard as weakness. Weakness. Weakness and weakness by cultures that don't necessarily share our infinite largesse. And so it's exactly what they're saying. West is weak, it's a woman.

[Charlie Kirk]

Therefore, really quick, we know the red Green alliance, right? But Islam is all about power and leftism is all about power. Maybe that's also what they have in common.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Exactly. They both despise the West. So because we both despise the west, we will join in unison in trying to get rid of the West. But of course the leftists don't recognize that once Islam becomes ascendant, they will be decapitated just like the rest of us.

[Charlie Kirk]

Dr. Saad, please plug your work so our audience can follow and support you.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

The Parasitic Mind was a big international bestseller. You can certainly read my latest book on happiness, the Sad Truth About Happiness. And I am feverishly working on my next book, which should be out probably early in 2026, called suicidal empathy.

[Charlie Kirk]

Dr. Saad, thank you so much, excellent work and we'll have you on again soon. Thank you.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Thank you, sir. Cheers.

[Charlie Kirk]

By the way, there is a, I was just alerted that, so there is on Facebook a artificial intelligence advertisement of me, which is totally fake, promoting some fake car insurance company that has 3 million views and a ton of people that are like clicking on the link and asking if it's real. This is dark stuff. I mean, it was super illegal. I've never heard of this company before. I never said anything about it. So they're AI ing my voice and they're AI ing my movements. It's this ride and rise as the company. If you see any of that. We're alerting the top levels of Facebook. We're alerting everybody. And this is totally criminal has 3.8 million views of this total scam and fraud and people are falling for it. So please double and triple check. If I've endorsed it, it will be [e-mail] we have the video. We should play it. All right, here is the fake AI Video. This is going to creep you guys out. This is totally fake. Be careful what you see. Play Cut541Americans have every right to be because it should have been done sooner. For the longest time, corporations have been allowed to price gouge on regulated industries like insurance. And now because of this administration, every American has a right to go to this page and request a state applied reduction to any auto insurance bill. The subsidy lowers your payment without any loss of coverage. All carriers have to comply. And if you're a US Citizen, go do it this week. What you just heard there was completely fake, made by AI and it's tricking millions of people. Don't fall for it. Charlie Kirk here. Crime is skyrocketing. You may already own a firearm, but before you face the financial and emotional weight of pulling the trigger, consider Burna. Burna's less lethal launchers fire tear gas and kinetic rounds designed to incapacitate attackers for up to 40 minutes, giving you time to escape and call for help without deadly consequences. I use Burna. My family all has them. And now meet the new compact launcher. An amazing product. Sleek, slim and and hits like a sledgehammer. But the size of a smartphone. It's perfect for concealed carry. Comfortable, discreet and confidence building. It fires at 400ft per second with 41 joules per square inch of stopping power. That's enough force to halt a threat. Cold about the legal and moral complexities of lethal force. What I love about Burna is they're proudly American. Over 80% of their compact launcher's components are sourced in America. And each unit is hand assembled in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Best of all, Burna is legal in all 50 states. No background checks. Ships directly to your door. Trusted by hundreds of police departments and government agencies around the world. Visit Byrna to learn more that is by r n a dot com Joining us now is Dr. Paul Ray, professor of history at Hillsdale College and war historian. Dr. Ray, thank you for your patience and time with us. One day when I meet you, I'll tell you all the fun backstory of our first attempted interview. But now we're live on air, so thank you for.

[Dr. Paul Ray]

I can imagine.

[Charlie Kirk]

Thank you for your understanding, sir. So, Dr. Wray, you are like an encyclopedia on wars and you've studied and watched the Middle east for decades. Kind of give us your historical and just commentary on what we've witnessed the last couple of weeks and how it fits in Middle east history.

[Dr. Paul Ray]

Okay, let me start by saying that when people talk about a 12 day war, they're wrong. It's been a 46 year war. That war began in 1979 with the overthrow of the Shah and the arrival in Iran of Khomeini and of a clerical regime that really is foreign to the Shiite tradition, which had been dominant in Iran and in various other places before that time. Ever since that time, starting with the seizure of the people from the American Embassy as hostages, there has been a low level war going on between Iran, the Sunni neighbors of Iran, the United States and Israel. And every so often this thing explodes into something larger. And that's what the so called 12 Day War was about. One of the key elements to this was that the Iranians were seeking nuclear weapons and had the means to produce them in short order. And just having that capacity gave them leverage. And they sponsored proxies, the Houthis in Yemen, Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza. And this is all for the purpose of overcoming the Sunni world. The, the Israelis in the United States are seen as obstacles to that. We stand in the way and we do indeed stand in the way. And you can see the manner in which in recent years the Sunni world has lined up with the Israelis settling all sorts of questions, providing ambassadorial, diplomatic recognition and so forth. And that's because they're afraid of the Iranians. So there is a split within Islam between Sunni and Shiite that is every bit as important as the division between Catholic and Protestant in say, the 16th and 17th centuries. It's a source of bloodshed, it's a source of struggle. Honor is involved. And the Iranians have been very effective in this. We've helped fund it under Obama. We made a deal with them that they would put their nuclear program on hold and we would provide them with a great deal of money which then has been spent in attacking us and in attacking the Israelis. So there's a large struggle that's been going on for a long time. It may be over now, but I'm not too terribly confident of that. As long as that regime stays in power, they're likely to pursue this. If you see Khamenei, who is the leader there, being pushed aside, he's an old man, he's 86, and other people coming to the fore, there may be a deal worked out that has some legs to it. Otherwise. Not. I don't know if you noticed, but today Khamenei appeared and declared victory in this war, despite all the damage that has been done to their nuclear program, to their military and so forth. So who knows in that regard? There is a larger context for this, and hidden in the background is the fact that there is a kind of rivalry between Turkey, which in the Ottoman period was the great rival of Iran, and the Iranians. So you have a Sunni power in Turkey that is formidable and allied with us, at least nominally, and then you have the Iranians. That has not burst out into violence. But you could see that it was going on in Syria in which the current regime in Syria was being sponsored. Those people were being sponsored by the Turks. The Iranians were sponsoring the Alawite regime of the Assad family. So there's maneuvering that goes on sort of constantly in that region. And we're drawn into it because it's a source of oil for our allies in Europe and of course, Japan. An awful lot of oil moves through the Straits of Hormuz, down through the Persian Gulf. It comes from Iran, it comes from Iraq, it comes from Saudi Arabia, and it comes from other countries in that particular region. But it's of strategic importance because our allies are dependent on that. For a time we were dependent on it too, until we began to frack. And we're now an exporter of oil, although not on a huge level. The other thing is this is tied into the larger world. The things that we do or don't do have an impact on, on the calculation of people elsewhere. To go back a little ways, when Obama was president, he declared a red line in Syria and then they broke the red line and he did absolutely nothing. He then tried to suck up to the Iranian regime, showing weakness again. And it's not a very big surprise that in 2014 the Russians will move into Crimea and will move into eastern Ukraine. They figured they could get away with it, and they did. The follow up to that is that the Chinese take the reefs in the South China Sea and begin to militarize them, trying to turn the South China Sea into a Chinese lake. So if you show weakness, everybody's going to move against you in. In ways they think they can get away with. If you show strength, it's just the opposite. I don't believe that Putin would have gone into Ukraine in 2014 or, excuse me, in 2022 if Donald Trump had been president. And the reason is when Soleimani, who was head of the Revolutionary Guard in Iran, instructed the militias that they sponsor in Iraq to attack the American base with missiles, we assassinated him. Trump ordered it. Boom. I'm not the only one who thinks this. I sat at a dinner three years ago with a columnist of the New York Times who shall remain nameless, but she has red hair. A New York Times speaker was speaking about Ukraine. She got up and she asked him if he thought that had Trump been president, Putin would have gone into Ukraine. And the fellow then went into the Russian collusion nonsense. And I leaned over to her and I said, you think otherwise, don't you? And she shook her head yes. And I said, it's Nixon, isn't it? And she says, that's it. That's exactly it. Now, the key thing about Nixon is he was unpredictable.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm afraid of him, that is. That's an incredible story about Maureen Dowd. Mike Lindell and MyPillow employees want to thank my listeners for all your continued support. Charlie Kirk here. Mike has a passion to help everyone get the best sleep of their life. He didn't stop by creating the best pillow. He created the best bed sheets ever. Mike is offering the best deal on the Per Kale bed sheets. You can get a set for as low as $24.98. The MyPillow percale sheets are breathable and have a cool, crisp feel. They have deep pockets to fit over any mattress. They look and feel great, which means an even better night's sleep for me, which is crucial for my busy schedule. Also, for a limited time when your order is above $100, you will receive $100 in free digital gifts. Go to MyPillow.com today and use promo code Kirk to receive the MyPillow per kale sheets for as low as $24.98. That's promo code Kirk. Don't wait. Be sure to order now. Call 800-875-0425 or use promo code Kirk to receive the MyPillow per Kale sheets for as low as $24.98. That's promo code. Kirk. Don't wait. Be sure to order. Now, that is MyPillow.com, promo code. Kirk. So, Dr. Ray, what you're articulating is Shia supremacism, where the Iranian regime has an ideological fervor to want to take over the entire region. What would you say is the status or the health of that regime? Can we tell? Please tell us, Dr. Ray.

[Dr. Paul Ray]

Well, we really can't tell. At least, I really can't tell. We may have intelligence agents there who know quite a bit. The CIA may know quite a bit. I wouldn't be shocked at all if the Israelis know quite a bit. But I don't think this is a good day for that political regime. A lot of damage has been done. They've shown weakness. I mean, Khomeini may claim victory, but the whole world, including all the people in Iran, know that this was a grave defeat for Iran. And weakness in that part of the world, in Iran, in the Arab countries, isn't tolerated for long. So I think it's possible that there will be a change within the regime or even a change of regime. One of the things to know about the Iranian regime is it's not a monarchy. It's not an ordinary tyranny. It's an oligarchy. There's a sort of group of insiders, including the leaders of the Revolutionary Guard and so forth, but also the people in parliament and the mullahs. And you can bet that there are conversations going on now about what changes need to be made. And at a certain point, those changes could be serious. In the year 2002, after 9 11, I used to live in Turkey, so I know that part of the world a bit. And I went back to Turkey seeing old friends. But I was also invited to a party with Turkish journalists. There was an Iranian journalist there. There had been demonstrations in Iran, spontaneous demonstrations at soccer games, pro American demonstrations in the wake of 9 11. So I asked this Iranian journalist, is, is the regime going to go under? And he said no. He said, the people who run this country were graduate students in Eastern Europe during the Soviet period. They know how to control a population. There's one thing they don't know, how to control their own children. I don't know if his story about Eastern Europe is correct, but I can tell you they have controlled that population. It's now 46 years old. @ that time it was younger. But one of the things you can see in these sorts of regimes is, is they run out of revolutionary fervor. When the generation that made the revolution passes from the scene. Now it's a bit early. Those people are in their 60s now and in their 70s. They haven't passed from the scene, but it could be enough of them have passed from the scene and that there are people in positions of responsibility who are younger, the sort of Gorbachevs of the Iranian revolution, that is to say, people who were not there during the revolution. And they may think a little bit differently, especially since the defeats they've suffered in Gaza, in Lebanon, in Yemen and now in the home country. So they might want to move away from a set of policies that brings this sort of thing on them. Now, if Khamenei remains in power, 86 years old, and if he dominates, I doubt that there will be change. But. But if he gets pushed aside, everything's open and there's a very large population in Iran that has never liked this regime. And so there might be an opening in that direction.

[Charlie Kirk]

If there was ever an opportunity for the people of Persia to rise up, I would imagine this would be it. At least from the outside, they seem remarkably vulnerable. And they're a proud people. They are an ancient power. And despite the spin that the Ayatollah is giving, they were humiliated on the world stage. They had no air defense systems. I mean, two foreign countries had complete control of the skies over Iran. It was a joke. Dr. Ray, we're out of time. Thank you for your time. Final thoughts. 20 seconds, sir.

[Dr. Paul Ray]

Okay, the Russians and the Chinese are watching and they're beginning to think maybe we should be a little bit careful.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well said. Be a little bit care. Donald Trump did not just drop a bomb on Fordeau. It was a memo of understanding to our enemies that was delivered straight to the desk, straight to the desk of Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin. And they took careful notes at the military precision and the willingness of the Commander in Chief. Dr. Ray, thank you so much. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk. Com. Thanks so much for listening and God bless.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk. Com.