Where Does Morality Come From? More Questions at ASU w/ George Janko

Summary

Summary of "The Charlie Kirk Show" Episode: "Where Does Morality Come From? More Questions at ASU w/ George Janko"

In the December 5, 2024 episode of "The Charlie Kirk Show," host Charlie Kirk engages with George Janko and audience members at Arizona State University (ASU) to explore the origins of morality. The conversation traverses complex topics, including the foundations of ethical standards, the morality and legality of abortion, critiques of capitalist and Marxist frameworks, societal impacts of welfare policies, and geopolitical stances on Israel and Palestine.

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1. Introduction to the Discussion

Charlie Kirk initiated the conversation by acknowledging his presence on the ASU campus and welcoming George Janko to the dialogue. The focus quickly shifted to the central theme of the episode: the source of morality.

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2. Foundations of Morality

Charlie Kirk: [04:46] "Where does it show that murder is wrong?"

Kirk challenges the audience to consider the basis of moral judgments. He questions whether morality is inherent or derived from external sources, such as religious texts.

George Janko: [04:59] "My belief in the Supreme Being. I have a spiritual path that I've been on, and I've been on it for decades."

Janko posits that morality stems from a belief in a higher power, suggesting that ethical standards are ingrained in human nature through spiritual or religious influences.

Charlie Kirk: [06:19] "But if that's the case, why is it okay that we have 1.5 million abortions every year?"

Kirk underscores the necessity of an objective moral framework to prevent societal atrocities, using abortion statistics as a point of contention.

George Janko: [06:43] "They're wrong. What do you want me to say?"

Janko maintains that certain actions, like murder, are universally recognized as wrong, independent of religious doctrines.

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3. Abortion: Morality vs. Legal Rights

The dialogue intensifies as Kirk and Janko debate the ethics and legality of abortion.

Charlie Kirk: [10:46] "If our government laws prohibit the ability to go into a school and shoot a kid, shouldn't the government laws prohibit the ability to kill the kid when it's still in utero?"

Kirk argues for legal consistency, equating abortion with murder and advocating for its prohibition in all circumstances.

Robert Carl Ekman (Audience Member): [07:11] "It's a woman's choice to choose. That is a life form in her body. She can choose."

Ekman presents the pro-choice perspective, emphasizing women's autonomy over their bodies.

Charlie Kirk: [11:03] "The answer is to make it illegal. The same way we've made murder illegal and slavery illegal. Because laws are a reflection of morality."

Kirk reinforces his stance that government should reflect moral standards, equating the illegality of murder and slavery to the proposed illegality of abortion.

Robert Carl Ekman: [12:07] "But it's okay. The point is that here's the issue with abortion. It's the only issue where we have a different moral framework that doesn't apply to every other part of life."

Ekman highlights the inconsistency in moral frameworks, questioning why abortion is treated differently from other moral issues.

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4. Capitalism vs. Marxism: Economic Systems Under Scrutiny

The conversation shifts to economic systems, with Janko offering a Marxist critique of capitalism.

George Janko: [27:57] "Worker productivity since 1980 has gone up 65%, but worker compensation has only gone up about 20%."

Janko points out the disparity between productivity and compensation, suggesting that capitalism inherently disadvantages workers.

Charlie Kirk: [32:33] "Marxism is a really bad idea... the solution of saying, which again, I'm not going to try to put words in your mouth, but saying we want to mass redistribute, redistribution of wealth, restrict private property, those are really, really bad ideas."

Kirk directly opposes Marxist solutions, advocating for the preservation of private property and warning against wealth redistribution.

George Janko: [32:41] "This is art. So one of the things that I've kind of struggled with is Marx only wrote about 50 pages of what it looks like the day after the revolution."

Janko acknowledges the theoretical nature of Marxism and the lack of concrete post-revolution plans, emphasizing practical critiques over ideology.

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5. Societal Impacts: Welfare and Family Structures

The discussion delves into the effects of government welfare programs on family dynamics, particularly single motherhood.

Diego (Audience Member): [18:19] "God forbid, something Happens to you. And you're not involved in a church, but your neighbors know that your wife needs to feed her children."

Diego raises concerns about governmental reliance versus community and church support in assisting families in need.

Charlie Kirk: [19:36] "Black culture over the last 50, 60 years has changed a lot... the only difference from what I see is the Great Society act that was passed where they're giving welfare to single moms."

Kirk attributes the rise in single motherhood not solely to welfare programs but also to cultural shifts, citing works like Thomas Sowell's research.

George Janko: [19:16] "I think the problem has to. It deals with fundamental inconsistencies within the capitalist system."

Janko ties societal issues back to capitalism, highlighting how economic structures incentivize certain family dynamics over others.

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6. Critique of Political Figures: Kamala Harris and Donald Trump

Kirk and Ekman critique political figures, focusing on Kamala Harris and Donald Trump.

Charlie Kirk: [14:19] "Trump was in office for the first two years... he did nothing. And he ballooned the deficit."

Kirk criticizes Trump's administration for perceived inaction and fiscal irresponsibility concerning infrastructure.

Robert Carl Ekman: [15:15] "320,000 kids are missing right now because of her."

Ekman attributes significant societal issues, such as missing children due to sex slavery, to Harris's policies.

Charlie Kirk: [15:40] "Nickelicense laws for babies inside the womb... we are morally confused on this topic, and we should make abortion illegal in every circumstance."

Kirk reiterates his stance on abortion, linking it to broader moral and legal inconsistencies.

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7. Geopolitical Stance: Israel-Palestine

The episode touches briefly on the Israel-Palestine conflict, with perspectives highlighting religious and strategic motivations.

Diego: [25:26] "It's not on a moral standpoint. We're not taking the moral good, we're taking the strategic good..."

Diego questions the moral underpinnings of U.S. support for Israel, suggesting strategic interests predominate.

Charlie Kirk: [25:32] "Israel has a direct connection to our faith in the western tradition."

Kirk defends U.S. support for Israel by linking it to religious heritage and the preservation of Western values.

George Janko: [25:40] "You're coming out from a good place, but here's my one. Post structuralism is misery."

The conversation briefly veers into theological debates, with Janko expressing skepticism about literalist interpretations of religious texts.

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8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with reflective thoughts on morality, belief systems, and societal structures.

Charlie Kirk: [36:55] "What you might believe would create a lot of chaos in the world."

Kirk emphasizes the importance of objective moral standards to maintain societal order, warning against subjective moral beliefs leading to chaos.

George Janko: [36:43] "So I think there's value in a life lived that way."

Janko advocates for continual questioning and critical examination of deeply held beliefs, especially concerning violence and morality.

Charlie Kirk: [38:03] "I have an interesting question. Your belief, if everybody believed what you believed, would the world be a better place?"

Kirk challenges Janko to consider the broader implications of embracing a purely Marxist ideology, underscoring his belief in objective moral truths.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Charlie Kirk: [04:46] "Where do you get your morality from? What book? What author? Where do you decide what is right or wrong?"

• Robert Carl Ekman: [05:07] "It just, we just know it instinctively that it's wrong."

• Charlie Kirk: [10:46] "If our government laws prohibit the ability to go into a school and shoot a kid, shouldn't the government laws prohibit the ability to kill the kid when it's still in utero?"

• George Janko: [27:57] "Worker productivity since 1980 has gone up 65%, but worker compensation has only gone up about 20%."

• Charlie Kirk: [32:33] "Marxism is a really bad idea... the solution of saying we want to mass redistribute, redistribution of wealth, restrict private property, those are really, really bad ideas."

• Charlie Kirk: [36:55] "What you might believe would create a lot of chaos in the world."

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Insights and Conclusions

The episode presents a rigorous examination of the underpinnings of morality, juxtaposing religious-based ethical frameworks against secular and Marxist perspectives. Charlie Kirk consistently advocates for objective moral standards derived from religious texts, arguing that without such foundations, society risks moral ambiguity and chaos. George Janko, representing a Marxist viewpoint, critiques the capitalist system's inherent inequities, particularly regarding worker compensation and family structures.

The abortion debate highlights a fundamental clash between individual autonomy and collective moral standards, with Kirk emphasizing legal prohibitions akin to murder, while Janko underscores reproductive rights and personal choice. The discourse on economic systems reveals a deep-seated tension between maintaining capitalist efficiencies and addressing systemic inequalities through Marxist solutions, which Kirk vehemently opposes.

Societal issues, such as the impact of welfare programs on family dynamics, are dissected to reveal deeper economic and cultural influences. Additionally, the brief foray into geopolitical stances on Israel-Palestine underscores the complex interplay between religious heritage and strategic alliances in shaping U.S. foreign policy.

Overall, the episode underscores the necessity of grounding societal norms in objective moral frameworks to foster a cohesive and ethical society. Kirk's unwavering stance on moral absolutes serves as a counterpoint to Janko's advocacy for systemic reforms, encapsulating the broader ideological battles within contemporary American discourse.

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

Hey, everybody. Today we have more college conversations for you from Arizona State University with George Janko. Become a member today. Members.charliekirk.com members.charliekirk dot com and come to America Fest. That's AmFest.com AmFest.com that is AmFest.com AmFest. Com Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

[George Janko]

I want you to know we are.

[Charlie Kirk]

Lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

[George Janko]

Charlie Kirk's running the White House.

[Charlie Kirk]

Folks, I want to thank.

[Audience Member]

Charlie is an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country.

[Charlie Kirk]

He's done an amazing job building one.

[Audience Member]

Of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.

[Charlie Kirk]

We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold investments@noblegold investments.com. that is noblegold investments.com. it's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegold investments.com. all right, come up to the mic.

[Audience Member]

What's your name?

[Charlie Kirk]

No, come up to the microphone. Calm down. What's your name?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

My name is Robert Carl Ekman. Now, from back there, nobody can hear you. So can you guys all talk really loud? Can everybody hear me? Can you hear me? Okay, because literally, I was just a few back and nobody could hear anything.

[Charlie Kirk]

I was there. Why did you say it was BS if you couldn't hear me?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Well, I was right there when I heard you saying it. A little bit further. I'm sorry. A little bit further back. I couldn't hear you, but I got a little closer.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, so what did I say? That was B.S. exactly.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Because you're comparing adultery to. Which is a conscious, immoral decision, and Trump is an adulterer. That's 100% and it is immoral. It's proven 100%. Gay people do not choose to be gay.

[Charlie Kirk]

I never said that. But you choose to act on the impulse.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Why wouldn't you? That's your. That's who you are.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, but what if someone says, I just chose to cheat on my wife. It's who I am. I just chose to gamble the house away. I'm a gambler. It's just who I am.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

It's never.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on. I just chose to rob the bank. It's who I am. What's the difference?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

You're talking about sexual. It's like I can't choose. I'm heterosexual. I can't. I have no choice. I like women.

[Charlie Kirk]

Let's play this out. Does a pedophile choose to act on their impulse to have sex with kids?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

How dare you compare gay people to pedophiles. They're not pedophiles.

[Charlie Kirk]

I never said that. I'm asking a question.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

And first of all, pedophiles does not necessarily mean that they. That they're doing something wrong. If you're talking about sexual predators, that's not.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I'm asking a series of questions of whether or not behavior and impulse are two different things. So you can have a lot of impulses. Acting on them is far more important. So he asked a question of what my religion teaches. My personal religion believes that marriage is between man and one woman as God designed. And God made male and female.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

And you speak for God, I suppose. Look, marriage equality, okay? They want to limit marriage. Who says, who died and made you king? That you could say it's between a marriage. I say it's about two people who love each other. Give me. Hold on a second. Don't interrupt me. I say it's. It's between. It's our. Our way is an expansive way. We include everybody because everybody can get married. You can get married. You don't have to be gay. You don't have to get gay marriage.

[Charlie Kirk]

An adult marry a nine year old.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Oh, oh, God. Yes or no break.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no can.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Stupid argument.

[Charlie Kirk]

Can an adult marry a 9 year old? Love is love, right?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

No, no, not because I.

[Charlie Kirk]

Love is love.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

No, it's between two consenting adults.

[Charlie Kirk]

Got it. So just want to make sure we're clear on the definition. Can you calm down a little bit though? You're coming out really, really hard. So again, I don't speak for God. I read what God has told us in his scriptures.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

And there's a lot of scriptures.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, first of all, in Leviticus 18, it says a man shall not lie with another man as he does a woman. In Genesis 1, God created man and woman and created man for woman and woman for man. In Matthew is repeated by Christ our Lord that says that a man will leave his father and cling to his wife. And so the marriage is a biblical idea.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

You don't have to recite the whole thing. It doesn't matter because that's your religion.

[Charlie Kirk]

I know.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Religion has nothing to do with marriage equality. It's about equality. It's about you marry who you love, because the state. The state is. Separation of powers, the state. Hold on, let me talk.

[Charlie Kirk]

You're not addressing what he asked. He said, why do I believe it? Because I believe the scriptures are divinely inspired. That's it.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Okay, so you want to make legislation.

[Charlie Kirk]

Because we haven't even got into legislation yet. But I am curious, though. Where do you get your morality from? What book? What author? Where do you decide what is right or wrong? I. The Bible. How about you? Where do you get your morality from?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

My belief in the Supreme Being. My. I have a spiritual path that I've been on, and I've been on it for decades.

[Charlie Kirk]

So where does it show that murder is wrong?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

It just. We just know it instinctively that it's wrong. Why is it wrong?

[Charlie Kirk]

We just know it's instinctively. The Nazis believe murder was right. Why were they wrong?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

I don't need. I don't need your book to tell me it's wrong. I just need morality based on all scripture. Based on. Based on human decency, based.

[Charlie Kirk]

What scripture? Yeah, what book are you referencing?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

If you look at all scripture from.

[Charlie Kirk]

All religions, but no, the Quran says.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Buddhism, Quran, they all say that murder is wrong. They all say adultery is wrong.

[Charlie Kirk]

In the Quran, it says it's okay to murder in the name of Allah.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

So are you advocating for murder?

[Charlie Kirk]

No, actually.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

What are you advocating for?

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm not. I. Next. Next. Next. Next. Yeah, Wait a minute. I just want to. I'm trying to get to some common ground here and understand where you're coming from.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Does anybody out there believe that murder is. Oh, is.

[Charlie Kirk]

Is.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Is good. Because it's in. Because it was in those older scriptures.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes. I mean, the general. Here's what I'm getting at. If you do not have an objective standard that is written and agreed upon, then who is to say that murder, theft, adultery, these things are wrong? It's not naturally built into us, is it?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Look, you could be totally atheist and know they are wrong. It's just instinctive human nature because. Hold on. The Supreme Being is in all of us right now. God, or the Supreme Being or the intelligent designer, whatever you want to call it, is in vibrating through every single human being here and on planet Earth. And we just know that murder is wrong. Plus, it's illegal and you don't want to be murdered. I don't want to be murdered. So.

[Charlie Kirk]

But if that's the case, why is it that in Mao's China it was okay to kill 40 million people?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

They're wrong. What do you want me to say?

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I'm saying you're going in circles. You're wrong. By what standard?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

The standard is murder is wrong. Everybody knows it. Just from being instinctual.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's actually not true.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Why does it have to be in your Bible?

[Charlie Kirk]

For example? Example, if everybody knows it, why is it okay that we have 1.5 million abortions every year?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Okay, that is a woman's choice to choose. That is a life form in her body. She can choose. Yes, I get it. I get it. I am pro life, but I am pro life. But the woman, it's her body, it's her life form. That's between her and God and her family.

[Charlie Kirk]

You think murder should be illegal? Why shouldn't murder be illegal in the womb?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

You can't. No, you. Because who says that it's murder?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, hold on.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

It's a baby in the womb.

[Charlie Kirk]

Wait, it's a baby. Hold on. No, no, you just said it's a baby in the womb. Therefore terminating it would be murder.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Look, I agree with the premise that it is a human life in the form of development and if you let nature take its force, it will come out as a baby and be a human being. But that doesn't make the state. If you want to promote, don't have abortions, then you go out, use your voice, you make speeches, you build coalitions, and you. And you do it. But the government has to stay neutral. The government cannot invade the privacy. And you know what the worst thing about it is? Is the red state. The red states that do it, they torture people. They torture women by not. By not letting them get medical care.

[Charlie Kirk]

Should the government remain neutral, should the government remain neutral on a mother being allowed to murder her 2 year old?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Yes, once it. Once it's outside, yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

Wait, no. I said remain neutral.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

No, of course not. Of course not. Because it's outside the womb.

[Charlie Kirk]

You got to explain to me what is the moral difference what is the moral difference between a baby in the womb and outside the womb? Why does the baby. Why does the baby get moral worth once it gets out of the womb? I.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Look, I agree with you. I agree with the premise. It is a life form growing in there.

[Charlie Kirk]

But then why shouldn't it be illegal? If we have murder laws for babies outside the womb, we should have murder laws for baby inside the womb.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

It doesn't work. It doesn't work.

[Charlie Kirk]

What do you mean it doesn't work?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Because women have to make the choice.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on, do murder laws work for kindergarteners?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

There can be some restrictions, up to a certain number of weeks. Okay, maybe 15, maybe 20 weeks. I agree with that. But until. Okay, obviously partial birth. Abortion. I don't agree with that.

[Charlie Kirk]

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[Robert Carl Ekman]

There's a lot of suffering for women if they are forced to have babies. The suffering for the fetuses.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, but how about the suffering for the babies that are being aborted? But hold on. You say the baby's not alive if it not you. He did. But again, it's okay. The point is that here's the issue with abortion. It's the only issue where we have a different moral framework that doesn't apply to every other part of life. So you say everyone knows murder is wrong, yet we can't agree that we should not murder the unborn through government laws. So if our government laws prohibit the ability to go into a school and shoot a kid, shouldn't the government laws prohibit the ability to kill the kid when it's still in utero?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Not when it comes to reproductive rights. And I get it. I get it now. When they abort the baby, okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

It'S.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Bad, it's suffering for the fetus. Possibly, but wait a minute. I don't know what the answer is.

[Charlie Kirk]

The answer is to make it illegal. The same way we've made murder illegal and slavery illegal. Because laws are a reflection of morality.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

But this is the life. Why can't you just leave it up to women to make those moral choices? Because it's her life.

[Charlie Kirk]

Because we would not leave it up to women to be able to to murder their 2 year old. Because the state has a role to protect those that can't protect themselves. That is the fundamental reason we have government. Right.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

I agree. I still don't think that. I still think the woman has to make those choices. And I would not be opposed to legislation that made it very clear. But what you can't do is limit. Limit health care.

[Charlie Kirk]

We'll get to that. Abortion is not healthcare. Final. Final question.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Oh, it's not the women. One woman is dead.

[Charlie Kirk]

Final question. Do you think that abortion should be legal if you find out your kid has down syndrome?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

If they have down syndrome, they stay. It depends what the doctor says. If they're not going to survive, they know they should not abort. No, I'm saying they shouldn't abort. They shouldn't have bought it just because it has that. Because there's down syndrome. No.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay. Well, it's currently legal to do that in America. Should it be legal to terminate a baby if you find out you're having a girl but you want a boy?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

No.

[Charlie Kirk]

We have moral agreement on that. Then because that's currently also legal in America.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

The debate over reproductive rights. We can have it. And we can have a federal law that we can all agree on whether it's a 15 week or 20 week. Now, what do you.

[Charlie Kirk]

What do you.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

What do you see? It is zero.

[Charlie Kirk]

Abolish all abortion. Yeah.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

So as soon as the baby. Just a little. When it's just an egg, by the.

[Charlie Kirk]

Way, you keep on calling it a baby, which I appreciate, because since you keep calling it a baby, it means that you are murdering the baby. And. And so. And again, I just want to. I know George wants to get in here, which is that we call it a baby shower for a reason, not a fetus shower. When a pregnant woman is unfortunately killed in a homicide, it's a double homicide, because we recognize that as a life. And yet with an abortion, it's just a clump of cells. We are morally confused on this topic, and we should make abortion illegal in every circumstance. Thank you very much. We'll get to the next question. Thank. Yep. Thank you.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

What about. I want to talk about Trump.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, no, thanks. We're good. Get off the mic.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Get off the mic.

[Charlie Kirk]

Thank you.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

So you don't care about his gross immorality?

[Charlie Kirk]

I mean, look, I would imagine. Hold on, hold on. So you're voting for Kamala Harris?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Absolutely.

[Charlie Kirk]

What is Kamala Harris's. What is her greatest accomplishment?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

She's a normal person with normal ideas, but she's done all kinds. She's done great things.

[Charlie Kirk]

So name. Can you name one accomplishment? Name One thing.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Yeah. All the legislation, the CHIPS act, infrastructure bill.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. So her greatest accomplishment is what exactly?

[Audience Member]

Get off the movie.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

She said some good accomplishments. They passed some great legislation. Trump was in office for the first two years, full code control. He made fun of inconsistent. Roads and bridges were crumbling. He was making fun of infrastructure with Infrastructure Week. He was making fun of it Infrastructure Week. Two years, and he did nothing. And he ballooned the deficit.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. So if Kamala was such a great president and she's going to do all these things, good legislation, why again? So if she was going to fix the economy, fix the border, why hasn't she done it already?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Well, the economy's. The economy is doing great. We had a soft. Oh, it is. Oh, come on. Record stock market. Give me a break. Record stock market. Record job growth. Record jobs. Manufacturing up. Wages up. Somebody's lying to you. They are lying to you.

[Charlie Kirk]

How many of you guys can afford a home right now? Nobody. How many of you guys can afford groceries?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Oh, that was happening before her. That was. That's been like that for decades.

[Charlie Kirk]

How many. How many illegals have as Kamala allowed into the country?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Illegal immigration is not the number one issue. The number one issue is childcare, health care.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I want a number. I want you to guess. How many illegals has she allowed into America?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

I know it's millions, but they had a.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no, no. How many?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

I don't know the number. I know it's tens of millions.

[Charlie Kirk]

10 million people greater than 20 US states. How many children are missing in sex slavery right now because of her?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

It's not specifically because of her.

[Audience Member]

You are standing.

[Charlie Kirk]

320,000 kids are missing right now because of her. Do you know that? I thought you said the number one issue is childcare. You care about kids because of her. There are 320,000 missing kids right now in sex slavery in this country.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

That is not all her fault. And I didn't do a deep dive. I didn't do a deep dive to find out whether or not she's responsible for all that. All you know, she's a normal person from a middle class. She's smart. And Trump is having. Trump thinks that Hannibal Lecter is a great and wonderful man.

[Charlie Kirk]

Which. Which McDonald's did she work at?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Who gives a. Whether she worked at McDonald's or not? All I know is Trump, he sat there for two hours while they said, what do you do when the Capitol is under attack? Did you go to the dining room or do you go to the Situation Room? He went to the dining room sat there for two hours while they were attacking the Capitol. He put Mike Pence, his vice president, in direct mortal danger at 2:24pm when he blam basted him for not breaking the law.

[Charlie Kirk]

All right, thank you.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Nobody seems to care about that, huh?

[Charlie Kirk]

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[Diego]

How are you guys doing today?

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Good, bro.

[Audience Member]

How are you doing?

[Diego]

I'm doing really good. Can you guys hear me back there? Make sure my man can hear me right here.

[Audience Member]

What's your name, bro?

[Diego]

Christian. So my question is it's. I don't believe in systemic racism. However, in 1960, the African Americans born out of wedlock was 15 to 20%, and then nowadays it's over 70%. And the only difference from what I see is the Great Society act that was passed where they're giving welfare to single moms. So to me, that is a. The only point that. I've been thinking about it last night. The only point is the government stepped in and now we have 13% committing the 50. We have a whole entire thing that happened because the government stepped in and did a system program to cause that.

[Audience Member]

Have you ever seen a mother in need to feed her children?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yep.

[Audience Member]

It's tough. Yeah.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Yeah.

[Audience Member]

Would you step in and help?

[Diego]

Yeah. I think it's up to the churches to help out, not the government.

[Audience Member]

So question. If you're. If you have a wife and you had kids.

[Diego]

I do have a wife and a kid.

[Audience Member]

So God forbid, something Happens to you. And you're not involved in a church, but your neighbors know that your wife needs to feed her children.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[Audience Member]

Are you going to be upset with the government stepping in to feed the children's belly?

[Diego]

No, but what I'm saying is, is that the government stepped in. Now you have over 70% born out of wedlock, and you have a huge problem.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's more culture than it is that. So the other thing that has changed is black culture over the last 50, 60 years has changed a lot from what it elevates and what it platforms to the musicians, to the cultural figures where. And this is not my word. Just check out Thomas Sowell, who wrote an entire book on this. You know, Thomas Sowell is phenomenal literature.

[Diego]

I heard you talk about it.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. So I would encourage you to look at that. But you're right.

[George Janko]

And.

[Charlie Kirk]

But the only thing I'll say is this, though, is that it's. It definitely played an impact in what you're talking about.

[Diego]

Huge impact.

[Charlie Kirk]

But it wasn't only that black mothers received it, is that it helped destroy the white family.

[Diego]

So you're saying culture. I understand what you're saying.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. Because the single motherhood program that you're talking about affected all races. It'd be one thing if it was only for black women. Does that make sense?

[Diego]

Yeah, that would be systemic.

[Charlie Kirk]

Bingo. Gotcha. And it wasn't. But you're right, it did have a serious impact on incentivizing and subsidizing single motherhood. But culture is the number one driver. Okay, thank you.

[Audience Member]

One more question also just to add on to that. I think the government should always step in to help a family out. Right. The church should do it as well. But I don't care what religion, what race, what position you place yourself in. If you see a family in need and you do not extend your hand your evil to me. And so, like, as long as that family's being fed, there's no reason why we should be debating if this child should be fed if we're giving billions of dollars to someone else. Do you get what I'm saying here?

[Diego]

Yeah, but when it comes to feed, there's no starving kids in America. People are taking advantage. No, there's not. People are taking advantage of the welfare state. They keep applying for jobs. They're not getting beautiful.

[Audience Member]

Let the government help them. Let the church guide them.

[Charlie Kirk]

All right?

[Audience Member]

Let the church bring them to a foundation of Christ. That's what their job is. Do you want separation of church and state? That's it. Help anybody in need, regardless of where they come from, what they look as God, and have the church go show them who Christ is so they can live a godly life.

[Diego]

One last question. One last question. SBRs, silencers, and automatic firearms. Should it be legal? I think it should be legal. You don't have to pay a tax stamp to get it.

[Charlie Kirk]

Silencers, Absolutely. Spr. Yes. Automatic needs should be a special license, but legal.

[Diego]

So It's. It's a $200 tax stamp. They do the same exact background check when you buy a regular firearm.

[Charlie Kirk]

Why is not just a little. It's a little bit more extensive. If that's the case, then. Then I stand corrected. But there is a technical difference between what an automatic weapon is in a semi automatic. You know that. So I'd have to think more deeply about that.

[Diego]

Cool.

[Charlie Kirk]

Thank you. God bless.

[Diego]

Have a good day, guys.

[Audience Member]

Have a go, bro. Thank you.

[Charlie Kirk]

All right. Disagreements guys can work up. Yeah.

[Audience Member]

There's no way you're wearing a beanie right now in this heat, my guy.

[Diego]

I know, I know. That's a sacrifice for the drip. Come on.

[Audience Member]

What's your name?

[Diego]

My name is Diego. I just want to start off by saying Jesus, King. Jesus is Lord.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Amen.

[Audience Member]

Amen.

[Diego]

I would say that I grew up in the religion, and then just recently, I found my faith. So I've been starting to, like, you know, read my Bible and everything like that. And in high school, I think I was basically just spewing everything I heard on Tucker Carlson and Fox News. And then I wanted to base my politics off of my morals and my morals from the Bible. So through that, I've kind of came to a lot of the same things that, like, you say and you say. The only thing that I have a gripe with is your position on Israel, Palestine. I think that.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, that's only the fourth question on that today. Are you Catholic? Yeah, I'm Catholic, yeah. Only the. I love Catholics, but it's. It's a. It's because we just. We don't agree on replacement theology. That's why.

[Diego]

But at the same time, like, I see you condemn our. Especially like Kamala Harris's. That's one of your big talking points. It's like you condemn her spending on Ukraine, and yet we spent like 100 billion more on Israel than any other, like, Egyptian country there. I meant not Egyptian, like, in the Middle East. And I think that. I think the only reason why we truly. Or at least our politicians, like, truly give money there is not for the reasons that they say. And that's my biggest gripe is like it's not on a, in my opinion, it's not on a moral standpoint. We're not taking the moral good, we're taking the strategic good, maybe because they're our ally. But I just am tired of the lies and I'm tired of lies from both. So I just want to understand, because I feel like you're more well read and Christianity. So I want to understand how you came to the. That position on Israel and Palestine.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. So. Well, first of all, I'd be careful calling it Palestine because that's not a country, it doesn't exist. Right. So that's number one. But that's fine. We're not going to agree on that. Maybe we will, but we have different theologies. So I'm not going to go too deep in that. We believe, and I don't want to speak for George, that Israel has a place in God's plan, that the recreation of Israel was prophesied and that this is part of God's plan. We don't have to agree with that. In traditional Catholic theology, they believe that the Christian church replaced Israel in God's plan. Right. So that's just where we disagree on that. But, but as far as this, how do you know the Bible is true?

[Diego]

Because of faith.

[Charlie Kirk]

Faith also.

[Diego]

But, but there's some, like, there's some archaeological evidence and like the shot of Turin for sure, like that.

[Charlie Kirk]

So more than that. But where is that usually?

[Diego]

Oh, that's in like, like the Middle East.

[Charlie Kirk]

Israel. Yeah. So when I went to Israel, and I encourage you to go, it's not a perfect country. I'm not a defender of their government. But to be able to go to Capernaum, the Sea of Galilee, to be able to go see where our Christ, our Lord, rose from the dead, to see the Pool of Siloam, it changed my life. And access to these holy sites and access to these archeological points is profoundly important for the survival of the west. Because without them, you and I are not allowed to go visit, for example, a lot of Christian holy sites in Muslim countries. So the one city that I'm sure you would want to visit and I would want to visit is Bethlehem. Right. The birthplace of Christ our Lord. It's very hard for Christians to visit there because it's like 98% Muslim now and very, very dangerous. And so the trouble is in modern Israel right now, we can visit our holy sites. We can prove that the Bible is true. If it was controlled by Hamas or the Palestinian Authority. I don't think we have any such guarantees.

[Diego]

To me, it just seems like a lot of our original arguments like kind of drop in almost like a protection of Israel. And I've seen like you say in some other things like that in the Bible it says like those who stand by Israel.

[Charlie Kirk]

Genesis 12:3. Correct.

[Diego]

Yeah, so, but I just believe that like our pro life argument as conservative Christians shouldn't end in the womb. I think that we should, it should obviously extend and like childcare, obviously, like adoption and stuff like that. That should be a little bit easier, but also like pro life of everyone. Right. And so I think I've seen like a stat recently where it's like more children have died in Palestine than anywhere else in the last five years. Okay. I mean, I think I, like, I would, I would, I would do more research into it, but just from what I've seen, like just on a service level, it just, it's, it's the visceral reaction I can't get behind funding Netanyahu's like war machine basically, and giving him weapons on weapons especially. I also think it's just a little bit contradictory that you never speak on Kamala Harris's funding of Israel, but you condemn her funding of Ukraine.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's not. I just explained it to you, right? Because Israel is where it has a direct connection to our faith in the western tradition. Ukraine has no such connection.

[Diego]

Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

And Israel is an ally of the United States. Ukraine is not much of an ally, so. But we just disagree. We've done Israel three times today already. But thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you.

[Diego]

Thank you.

[Charlie Kirk]

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[George Janko]

Hey, how's it going? I read about 75% of your book, Right Wing Revolution that you gave out last month. About last night. I'm a Marxist, actually. I know, I know.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on. No, what's your name? That's more important than whether a Marxist.

[George Janko]

My name is Harmon.

[Charlie Kirk]

What?

[George Janko]

My name is Harmon.

[Charlie Kirk]

Harmon. Okay, give it up for him for coming up to the mic. That, that's, that's good. Yeah.

[George Janko]

So I, for most of my life was a conservative until about three years ago. And I would say I agree with a lot of the things you have to say in your book, a lot of the problems that we're facing. I think you are 100 correct when you say the world is going crazy right now. But I absolutely disagree with why it's happening. I think the problem has to. It deals with fundamental inconsistencies within the capitalist system. Right. So you talk about how the traditional marriage, the traditional family is dying. Right. And I would say one of the reasons why is because when a woman doesn't go to work to take care of her family, so a mother, Right. There's no surplus value that can be exchanged for that. Where in a capitalist system, it's much better for gdp, it's much better for growth if she works a job, gives money to a daycare to take care of her kid for her. Right. And then there's surplus value. That can be.

[Charlie Kirk]

That is a smart point. You're right.

[George Janko]

Thank you.

[Charlie Kirk]

I again, keep going.

[George Janko]

Or no, no, you can keep going.

[Charlie Kirk]

You are, you are pinpointing one of the two fatal flaws in the modern market system. Yeah. Which is that if you, if you overly worship markets and you do not prioritize what is good, true and beautiful, which I think you and I both agree, we want strong families. Yeah. Which is not a Marxist belief, but that's okay. I'm not, I'm not pinpointing you on that. I'm just saying traditional Marxism is the obliteration of family, religion, private property. And that's not my words, that's Marx's own words. But I'm not, I'm not ascribing it to everything ever wrote. Okay, but you can have a Marxist critique of systems.

[George Janko]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

And it is correct. There are two things that we as market believers have to reconcile that are the most difficult. Number one, which is, if you are trying to maximize output, why would you not put moms in the workplace?

[George Janko]

Exactly.

[Charlie Kirk]

Which is not a great thing for kids and not a great thing for culture. Number two, if profit is always good, what happens if a pharmaceutical company wants to keep you sick for the rest of your life and not heal you? Those are two of the most difficult questions we as free market people have to reconcile with. Yeah. So I'm agreeing with you.

[George Janko]

Oh, thank you. I'm glad we can agree. So then I would say the fundamental issues with capitalism, like the fact that worker productivity since 1980 has gone up 65%, but worker compensation has only gone up about 20%. That 40% difference, in my opinion, is we become the less you are compensated for your labor. If you're not compensated anything, you're a slave. And if you're compensated 100% for your labor, you're an owner. So I think that 40% discrepancy is the extent to which we have become more slave. Like. Right. And I think there aren't. There isn't really anyone on the. On Democratic side or the Republican side who are really addressing these inherent issues with capitalism.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. So I will. That's not totally true. I know you might not be a fan of his, but JD Vance has done a good job of this. He just said we won't word it the same way that you would. And believe it or not, Elizabeth Warren wrote an amazing book 20 years ago called the Two Income Trap, which is what you're talking about, which is in 1985, in order for a family of four to be able to survive, it required 36 weeks of labor a year. So that means anything over 36 weeks. You could save money, go on vacations or whatever. There's 52 weeks a year. Right now. It requires 57 weeks of labor a year to sustain a family of four, which means the mom has to go into the workforce. That's a bad thing. Now, I would argue, though, it's less about, quote, unquote, capitalism. It might be a little bit of that because there's always externalities. And it's more about how we flooded the Zone with cheap money and excess government spending and inflated asset prices over the last 10 years. Things are so expensive that it demands and warrants more and more people to go into the workforce. And then I would ask, alternatively, as a Marxist, what system would you then propose.

[George Janko]

So this is art. So one of the things that I've kind of struggled with is Marx only wrote about 50 pages of what it looks like the day after the revolution. Right. Which is what I think one of the biggest like real criticisms you can have of Marx.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right. But I think it's usually a mess after the revolution.

[George Janko]

But I think just because I don't necessarily have that much better of a system, like I do think what Norway does, right. They have worker owned companies, right. So imagine you and we have those two.

[Charlie Kirk]

We have Publix for example, we have co ops. There's.

[George Janko]

Yeah, but we don't do it nearly to the extent that these other countries think about it.

[Charlie Kirk]

If you, if you guys get stock options at a publicly traded company, that's a worker owned company, right?

[George Janko]

Yeah, but like you don't have a vote in it. It's not democratic like in these other countries. You can literally vote who you want your boss to be.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right.

[George Janko]

And I think that's also one of the other fundamental issues with capitalism is that in many ways it's a dictatorship.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right.

[George Janko]

You don't really have a say with who your boss is going to be or how he decides to make decisions. Whereas like with worker co ops, you're right.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. I mean there's no objection there. I guess the question I have is this and then is, do you think that free markets have done a good job or a bad job of increasing the standard of living for humanity the last hundred years?

[George Janko]

I think it's complicated because you look at certain things like fdr, right. On the New Deal, right. What do you think was the highest tax bracket for the top earners in the United States?

[Charlie Kirk]

It was like 70%.

[George Janko]

Yeah, it was like 80 to 90% actually. And then that even continued into the 50s, right. So I think capitalism, right. When there's great wealth that can be created. Because I do think capitalism is the most efficient system for creating stuff. Now I don't know if that stuff is necessarily good. I don't really agree with how the supply chain works. Right. It's great at creating stuff and we can distribute it.

[Charlie Kirk]

I find very little to disagree with you. But what I do, what I will, is that Marxism is a really bad idea. And so, meaning you're critiquing systems very, very well. But the solution of saying, which again, I'm not going to try to put words in your mouth, but saying we want to mass redistribute, redistribution of wealth, restrict private property, those are really, really bad ideas.

[George Janko]

Well, I would say people who have tried to have ideas of hyper privatization of property. Like I read Hernando DeSoto's the Mystery of Capital.

[Robert Carl Ekman]

Right.

[George Janko]

And he talks about how liberalized property rights are what makes countries work. Right. He tried those, he tried those policies in Peru and they didn't work.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right.

[George Janko]

Whereas I would see when you give people like when you have the government give military members loans for houses, right. And you try to increase people owning things and create an ownership class.

[Charlie Kirk]

I agree, but that's not a Marxist idea. That's okay. Marxism does not believe in private property at its core and that's okay.

[George Janko]

I don't think you've read your marks because Marx says private property. So there's been private property and personal property.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right.

[George Janko]

He said anything you find in a peasants village is their own personal property.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's interesting. I've never heard that distinction. Can I ask one question though? It's not gotcha. Because it's important in the state of nature. Do you think human beings are naturally good, bad or neutral?

[George Janko]

I think good, bad and neutral don't exist outside of humanity. Right. So like I saw a video of this owl raising a clutch of her children, right? It was like a fun little live stream video. One of her children died, she ripped it apart and fed it to other children. Right. I think that's pretty brutal. But I don't think I can say that's good or evil because they're animals. Right. Our entire concepts of what is good and what is evil is culturally defined.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, I don't, I don't believe that. I think there's objective good or evil. For example, I think murder is wrong regardless of your circumstance. But morality doesn't apply to animals because they don't have reason. Right?

[George Janko]

Yeah, but I would say like even, you know, Jesus. Not Jesus. Well, I guess God and Jesus are the same person. He's ordered the death of infants before.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right.

[George Janko]

First Samuel, verse 15. He says kill of the Amalekites. It's a rival tribe.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, that's actually earlier than Samuel. It's in the book of exodus.

[George Janko]

Well, it's 1st Samuel, verse 15.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, you're right, but that they're repeating the law of the amount of the Amalekites. That's okay. I'm not trying to quiz you on Bible trivia.

[George Janko]

Sorry. But like. Right, you can. I'm not going to say whether that was a good or a bad thing.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right.

[George Janko]

But I would say your morality of how we decide whether that was good or bad is culturally defined. It's the personal beliefs that you have. And I think every Christian, every religious person can say that those beliefs come to them from outside themselves. They're not reasonable. Right. You would say, like, believe.

[Charlie Kirk]

I agree, they do come outside of yourself. No, I do agree that's correct.

[George Janko]

Believing someone came, but.

[Charlie Kirk]

But we believe that those. Those are eternally applicable regardless. Right. So it's a transcendent order that in every tribe, every person, that it remains to be right or wrong in God's economy.

[George Janko]

So would you say it was wrong for God to order the death of infants?

[Charlie Kirk]

No, but we don't. We can't understand God's purposes or ways when it comes to life or death. We cannot.

[George Janko]

Well, then I would say I can agree with that. Then I would say putting that morality into politics, then into policy is wrong. If you don't even say you understand it, then how could you put it into.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, no, because we do understand God's rules for us. We don't understand how God operates when it comes to light. There's a lot of mystery when it comes to God, a lot. But there's very little mystery of what God wants out of us.

[Audience Member]

Well, but when you're a kid, do you have a good relationship with your dad?

[George Janko]

No, my father's dad, unfortunately.

[Audience Member]

I'm sorry about that. What about your mother?

[George Janko]

A lie, but estranged. I did not come from the best circumstances.

[Audience Member]

Well, I apologize. And I pray that you have an amazing family and that God makes it very fruitful.

[George Janko]

Thank you. Appreciate it.

[Audience Member]

But when you have a child and he's looking at you and he doesn't know and understand the realms of the world, and he sees his bright light, but it's fire and he wants to run up to it and touch it. Now the dad steps in and goes, no, the baby can't understand, but if it obeys its father, it would lead itself away from danger. And this is how we see it as Christians. We don't ask God why. We have no authority to ask God why. Just like I don't look at my father and ask him. If he says, jump, I say, how high? That classifies me as a good son. So there's a lot of things we don't understand. That's why he says he'll give you peace above your understanding, because we don't even know how to comprehend it.

[George Janko]

So I think there's value in a life lived that way. But when you have a God who has said, kill these infants, kill these unarmed women, kill these unarmed children, and then you say, our job is to Obey this God that again, you can't rationally prove he exists. It's a personal, expertial experience for you to say that God exists. I think that that's going too far. I think we should always be asking the highest questions, the most critical of the beliefs that govern us. Right. Especially when it comes to violence.

[Charlie Kirk]

I have an interesting question. Your belief, if everybody believed what you believed, would the world be a better place? Or if everyone believed that there was a God who judged them and believed the ten Commandments, which of those would create a better world?

[George Janko]

Yeah, so I personally. Yeah, so I personally believe in like, like post structuralism. Like, personally, I think my beliefs and my beliefs. I think most people would be incredibly unhappy. Right.

[Charlie Kirk]

No. Well, thank. That's incredibly intellectually honest. Yeah, yeah.

[George Janko]

And like.

[Charlie Kirk]

But don't you agree that therefore what you might believe would create a lot of chaos in the world?

[George Janko]

Yeah. So then I had to, with myself, come to the conclusion, do I want to believe what's good or do I want to believe what's true?

[Charlie Kirk]

Right. What's good? We believe that both of those things are the same.

[George Janko]

Yeah, exactly. But I disagree.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right. So I understand. Yeah.

[George Janko]

So like, I believe, like, do you guys believe in like a literalist interpretation of the flood?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes.

[George Janko]

So like, in my opinion, we actually.

[Charlie Kirk]

Have evidence of it.

[George Janko]

But yeah, well, like, I would say it's a little absurd, in my opinion, from a rational perspective to say that the Gila monster, which lives only in Southern Arizona. Right. Only lives in 100 plus temperatures. Right. Somehow crossed the land bridge from Turkey. So it went from Turkey through China across the land bridge in the Ice Age and came all the way down to Arizona to the only place where its fossils exist.

[Charlie Kirk]

I think you're overthinking it a little bit. That's okay, though. I mean. But again, I want to get the next question. You're coming out from a good place, but here's my one. Post structuralism is misery.

[George Janko]

Yeah, I agree.

[Charlie Kirk]

And. But it's not true. And I hope one day that I could plant a seed that, that this is. What I'll say is that the devil, which you may or may not believe in, exists to try to get you to question and deconstruct everything in a place of constant confusion and chaos. And my hope for you is that you can get back into a place of order. That's all.

[Audience Member]

Do you believe in a God by any chance?

[George Janko]

No, I personally don't, but I'm open to it. Okay. I just want to. I think it's crazy that we were able to agree on certain aspects of Marxism. I was so ready for debate, and I'm super happy that you were able.

[Charlie Kirk]

To do that on a Marxist critique but not an application. Thanks so much for listening everybody. Email us. As always, freedomarliekirk.com thanks so much for listening and God bless.

[Audience Member]

For more on many of these stories.

[George Janko]

And news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.