The Charlie Kirk Show

Episode: "Where We Got 'Woke Church': Charlie and Nathan Finochio at Freedom Night in America"

Date: November 16, 2025
Host: Charlie Kirk
Guest: Nathan Finochio
Summary by Podcast Summarizer

Overview of the Episode

This episode features a lively, candid discussion between Charlie Kirk and theologian Nathan Finochio, focusing on the rise of "wokeism" and deconstructionism within the American church. Recorded live at Freedom Night in America, Kirk and Finochio analyze the cultural forces shaping the church today, why “woke” ideologies have become so pervasive, how churches can reclaim their purpose, and what Christians need to know about external threats such as Islam and multiculturalism. The episode is marked by direct, often provocative commentary in a conversational style, blending theological insight with cultural critique.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Nathan Finochio’s Background and Theosu (02:24)

• Nathan shares his journey: raised by a pastor in Canada, attended Bible college in Portland, Oregon, and later moved to New York.
• Created Theosu, an affordable, online Bible-teaching platform aiming to be theologically conservative and non-woke.

  “We created this platform called Theosu and it's like 10 bucks a month. ... We're unapologetically theologically conservative.” (02:40)

Origins and Definition of "Woke Church" (03:57–06:17)

• Finochio traces woke tendencies in the church back over 150 years to the Enlightenment, claiming the shift began when biblical authority was questioned.
• Emphasizes the transition from “how do we get God to come to church” (older generations) to “how do we get people to come to church” (seeker-sensitive movement).
• Warns that prioritizing people’s comfort over pleasing the Lord is a "Trojan horse" for false doctrines.

“When all you're thinking about is how do I please this person in the pew and not how do I please the Lord? You're going to have problems.” — Nathan (05:13)

What is Wokeism? Deconstructionism Explained (06:19–09:49)

• Kirk and Finochio define wokeism as calling something unjust until you control it—a means to power.
• Cites “deconstructionism” as a woke trend in seminaries and churches, involving questioning biblical authority and pitting Jesus against Paul.

“Deconstructionism… is the idea that we need to take apart the essence of the word of God… challenging biblical authority and scriptural inerrancy using the same analytical tools that they use on American history…” — Charlie (07:07)

• Finochio observes that deconstructionists prefer “hippie Jesus” and dislike the Apostle Paul, twisting scripture through a Marxist lens.

“They love hippie Jesus and they hate the apostle Paul.” — Nathan (07:45)

Jesus, Paul, and the Problem of Scriptural Authority (09:49–15:31)

• Discussion on how deconstructionists create a 2D socialist image of Jesus and pit him against other scripture.
• Kirk notes that Jesus' universality is exploited by every movement (communists, Muslims, etc.).
• Finochio argues that Paul’s role as a practical pastor addressing moral and church problems makes him a frequent target.

“Jesus just let these people walk, you know? So my thought is, you can't pit scripture against scripture.” — Nathan (08:54)

Signs and Manifestations of Deconstruction in Churches (11:28–14:24)

• Red flags include pastors dismissing the Old Testament, imposing modern values on scripture, or advocating “Jesus vs. Paul.”
• Finochio shares social media examples where Jesus is presented as a liberator or feminist, yet critics find fault for not going far enough, exposing their real objection is with scripture itself.

“That's her thinking. She's better than Jesus. And at that moment, the whole game gets exposed because she's imposing other morality on top of the scripture.” — Charlie (13:13)

Revival Among Gen Z and the Church’s Future (15:31–18:04)

• Kirk is optimistic: Christian music is surging among Gen Z; church attendance is rising for the first time in decades.
• Finochio attributes this revival to Jesus' ongoing work:

“I don't believe that Jesus is coming back for a weak, anemic bride. ... I believe that Jesus is coming back for a powerhouse, glorified church.” — Nathan (16:56)

The Church’s Role: Priests vs. Consumers (18:30–21:07)

• Finochio explains that church purpose is to "worship God, equip the saints, and reach the world—in that order."
• He critiques the seeker-sensitive movement for producing Christian "consumers" rather than "priests," advocating a return to offering spiritual sacrifices and encountering God’s presence.

“If we're not priests, we're going to be consumers. ... If the priests come into the house and they offer the sacrifices, God... always shows up in fire, right? ... Revival is shifting the church from consumerism to a priesthood.” — Nathan (18:31, 19:24)

• Kirk adds, “People don’t need TED Talks... What people need is encounter with Jesus Christ, you know, and the power of the Holy Spirit.” (20:32)

Why Is Catholicism Growing? Encounters with God (22:14–23:56)

• Kirk and Finochio note the growth of Catholicism among young people, crediting the experience of holiness, the Mass, and the Eucharist.
• Comparison with Baptists who primarily encounter Christ through the preached Word—both are valid.

“The most beautiful thing about the Catholic Church is the Mass and rather the Eucharist. ... They go there to encounter Jesus through Communion. I think that's beautiful.” — Nathan (22:43)

• Other methods include worship, prayer, repentance, tithes, and offerings, which embody the priesthood principle.

Threats to the Church: Deconstruction, Progressivism, and Internal Heresies (23:56–25:54)

• Kirk asks if deconstructionism is growing. Finochio contextualizes it as a perpetual battle since the church’s inception (Arianism, Gnosticism, etc.).
• Recurrent theme: the church must always guard doctrine.

“Just when Paul's talking to Timothy, he's just, check your doctrine, check your doctrine, check your doctrine, check your doctrine.” — Nathan (24:52)

Islam, Multiculturalism & Western Identity (25:54–32:39)

• Kirk raises concerns about Islamic influence, noting lack of awareness among Christians.
• Finochio calls Islam a militant, inseparable religious-political ideology, not analogous to other faiths like Buddhism.

“Islam is not like that. It does not behave like that.” — Nathan (27:29)

• Both warn there is no “mosque and state” separation, highlighting the importance of Western (Christian) cultural dominance.
• Finochio critiques multiculturalism as eroding the dominant culture (using Canada as example), advocating for multi-ethnicism without multicultural ideology.

“Multiculturalism is the death of the dominant culture. That's exactly what it is.” — Nathan (29:04)

• Kirk claims, “immigration without assimilation is an invasion.” (32:18)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the original “church switch”:

  “The church that my dad was raised in was a church where, like, how do we get God to come to church? But it's almost like it switched a number of years ago where it was, how do we get people to come to church?” — Nathan (04:56)

• On consumer churches:

  “When you're a consumer, you’re problematizing everything… But when you’re a priest, you come to church and you bring the sacrifice of praise.” — Nathan (18:46)

• On multiculturalism:

  “I don't recognize my hometown anymore… Justin Trudeau… called Canada the first post-national country, meaning that the only thing that we have in common is that we have nothing in common. … It just destroys the social fabric.” — Nathan (30:00)

• On dealing with Islam:

  “Islam is a political ideology that is inseparable from [religion], and it's militant.” — Nathan (27:31)

Timestamps by Major Segment

• Introduction & Nathan’s Background: 00:03–02:40
• The Origins of Woke Church: 03:57–06:17
• Defining Wokeism/Deconstruction in the Church: 06:19–09:49
• Jesus vs. Paul, ‘Claiming Jesus,’ and Scriptural Authority: 09:49–15:31
• Spotting Deconstruction in Sermons/Teaching: 11:28–14:24
• Gen Z, Revival and the Future of the Church: 15:31–18:04
• Church as Priests Not Consumers: 18:30–21:07
• Catholic Growth & Experience of God: 22:14–23:56
• Decline or Rebound of Deconstructionism: 23:56–25:54
• Islam, Multiculturalism, and Threats to the West: 25:54–32:39
• Separating Ideology from Individuals, Final Thoughts: 32:39–33:30

Conclusion

Charlie Kirk and Nathan Finochio offer a critical, theologically conservative take on the issues of wokeism and deconstruction within the American church. They urge listeners to return to a faith centered on the awe of God, eschew consumer-driven worship, and remain vigilant regarding cultural and ideological threats, particularly regarding multiculturalism and Islam. The conversation blends practical insight with polemic fervor, intended to encourage church leaders and laypeople alike to hold fast to historic Christian doctrines and cultural identity.