Podcast Title: The Charlie Kirk Show
Host: Charlie Kirk
Episode: Who Rules: The People or the Parliamentarian?
Release Date: June 30, 2025

Introduction: Navigating Senate Procedures and Legislative Challenges

In this episode of The Charlie Kirk Show, host Charlie Kirk delves into the intricate dynamics of the U.S. Senate's legislative process, specifically focusing on the influence of parliamentarian Elizabeth McDonough on the passage of significant legislation. Joining Kirk is Senator Mark Wayne Mullen from Oklahoma, who provides insightful perspectives on the current state of the Senate, the hurdles posed by parliamentary procedures, and the broader implications for Republican legislative efforts.

The "Big Beautiful Bill" and Senate Procedural Passage

[01:28] Charlie Kirk: "Who is this parliamentarian and why is she getting in the way of the big beautiful bill?"

Charlie Kirk introduces the central topic of the episode: the passage of a major legislative package referred to as the "big beautiful bill." He expresses frustration over Parliamentarian Elizabeth McDonough's role in impeding the bill's progress despite its numerous successes.

[01:30] Mark Wayne Mullen: "Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks."

Senator Mullen praises Kirk's influence and highlights the collaborative efforts underway to navigate the legislative challenges posed by procedural rules.

Key Provisions of the "Big Beautiful Bill"

Remittance Tax Reduction

[08:15] Charlie Kirk: "The remittance tax was 3%, which is a huge part of the big beautiful bill which taxes money from America to Mexico and puts a tax on basically illegal Immigration."

The bill initially proposed a 3% remittance tax targeting funds sent from the U.S. to Mexico, aiming to curb illegal immigration by imposing financial penalties. However, the Senate has negotiated this down to a 1% tax.

Debt Ceiling Increase

[09:05] Charlie Kirk: "The House raised the debt ceiling up to $4 trillion. The Senate went up to $5 trillion."

The bill also includes provisions to raise the national debt ceiling, with the Senate opting for a higher increase than the House's proposal.

Child Tax Credit Adjustments

[10:10] Charlie Kirk: "The child tax credit went from $2,500 per kid down to $2,200 per kid."

Adjustments to the child tax credit are part of the bill, reducing the benefit slightly while aiming to maintain support for families.

SALT Deduction Reform

[10:30] Charlie Kirk: "The SALT deduction went from a $40,000 permanent SALT deduction in the house to a $10,000 temporary SALT deduction."

The Senate has amended the State and Local Tax (SALT) deduction, capping it temporarily at $10,000, which Charlie Kirk argues is a necessary reform to curb subsidies favoring high-tax states like California and New York.

Protecting Workers' Income

[10:45] Charlie Kirk: "We kept the Trump tax cuts. We kept no tax on tips. We kept all the border stuff."

The bill preserves key tax cuts from the Trump administration and maintains favorable conditions for workers, including tax exemptions on tips and overtime income.

Parliamentary Obstacles: Elizabeth McDonough's Influence

Removal of Critical Amendments

[11:24] Mark Wayne Mullen: "She is literally calling these shots."

Senator Mullen criticizes McDonough for removing several important provisions from the bill, including the defunding of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, pay cuts to Federal Reserve staff, and the dissolving of the Office of Financial Research. He labels her actions as arbitrary and obstructive.

Impact on Mandatory vs. Discretionary Spending

[15:05] Charlie Kirk: "But just two questions on that. So the. You cannot override the parliamentarian on simple majority vote, is that right?"

The discussion highlights the distinction between mandatory and discretionary spending governed by the "bird rule," which restricts the use of reconciliation processes to specific types of budgetary allocations. McDonough's interpretations have limited the bill's ability to address areas like SNAP benefits for undocumented immigrants.

Overriding Parliamentary Decisions: Challenges and Possibilities

Procedural Limitations

[15:47] Mark Wayne Mullen: "You can't do reconciliation because all Appropriation bills require 60 votes in the Senate, not just a simple majority."

Senator Mullen explains the difficulty in overriding the parliamentarian's decisions due to the requirement of a 60-vote threshold in the Senate, making it nearly impossible without significant bipartisan support.

The "Nuclear Option"

[17:27] Mark Wayne Mullen: "You can override them by majority, but in some cases, it actually takes two thirds."

The conversation touches upon the potential use of the "nuclear option" to change Senate rules, although Mullen expresses skepticism about its feasibility and effectiveness, citing the possibility of unintended consequences and the entrenched nature of Senate protocols.

Changing the Parliamentarian

[20:11] Mark Wayne Mullen: "You can change it through the appropriations, through discretionary spending. What the parliamentarian ruled was, is this isn't mandatory spending."

Mullen discusses the rare and challenging process of replacing the parliamentarian, emphasizing that even if successful, a new parliamentarian might not necessarily favor Republican legislative goals.

Senator Mullen's Perspectives: Fiscal Responsibility and Legislative Integrity

Deficit Reduction Claims

[25:10] Mark Wayne Mullen: "We're cutting $1.6 trillion in deficit, which is the largest deficit reduction in any Congress or in the history of Congress."

Senator Mullen asserts that the bill significantly reduces the national deficit, countering claims from Democrats that it would increase the deficit by $3.3 trillion. He references differing Congressional Budget Office (CBO) scenarios to support his argument.

Economic Growth and Tax Policy

[25:30] Mark Wayne Mullen: "We're making tax cuts permanent. We're securing the border."

The Senator emphasizes the bill's focus on sustaining economic growth through permanent tax cuts and strengthening national security by securing the nation's borders.

Medicare and Medicaid Reforms

[27:09] Mark Wayne Mullen: "Rick Scott's got a provision that could possibly change the FMAT back and give you five years."

Mullen discusses potential amendments aimed at reforming Medicare and Medicaid, targeting inefficiencies and ensuring resources are allocated to those most in need.

Charlie Kirk's Frustrations and Calls to Action

Senate's Disconnect from the People

[24:21] Charlie Kirk: "The US Senate is getting in the way of the people. It's as if there are all these places that have been built to fortify the defenses against the will of the people."

Kirk voices his disappointment with the Senate's procedural barriers, accusing them of obstructing the legislative will of the American populace.

Encouraging Republican Solidarity

[28:31] Charlie Kirk: "Republicans need to start playing hardball here. It's time for us to just throw it down and say, you know what? We won this election."

He urges Republicans to unite and push back against entrenched Senate rules and staffers that prevent the passage of their legislative agenda.

Highlighting Minority Influence

[37:26] Charlie Kirk: "We don't have an oligarchy who voted for her. Now, getting mad at the parliamentarian is totally understandable, but the key is this. And that's where I want to now bring you to the next level."

Kirk underscores the disproportionate influence of unaccountable Senate staffers like McDonough and calls for greater accountability and responsiveness to the electorate's desires.

Wins and Progress Amid Procedural Hurdles

Preserving Core Republican Policies

[25:10] Mark Wayne Mullen: "We're making tax cuts permanent. We're securing the border."

Despite the procedural setbacks, significant portions of the bill that align with Republican priorities have been preserved, including tax cuts and border security measures.

Defending Economic Policies

[25:30] Mark Wayne Mullen: "We're locking in the economic policies for Trump."

The bill maintains key economic strategies from the Trump administration, which proponents argue are essential for sustained economic growth and stability.

Historical Legislative Achievements

[26:48] Mark Wayne Mullen: "But the media and the left is spreading the lie by saying this is a $3.3 trillion deficit increase."

Mullen contends that the bill is historically significant in its efforts to reduce the deficit and uphold fiscal responsibility, challenging opposing narratives about its financial impact.

Conclusion: The Path Forward for Republican Legislation

[37:26] Charlie Kirk: "The world is going to end because of climate change. The world is going to end because Trump is leading us to a war with Iran. All that stuff was nonsense. It was garbage."

Kirk concludes by emphasizing the importance of overcoming legislative obstacles to implement conservative policies, framing the struggle as a fight against outdated Senate procedures that hinder progress.

Call to Action

[37:20] Charlie Kirk: "Email us. As always, freedomarliekirk.com thanks so much for listening and God bless."

Kirk encourages listeners to stay informed and engaged, reinforcing the show's mission to empower viewers with knowledge and advocate for conservative values.

Notable Quotes

• Charlie Kirk on Parliamentarian's Influence:
  "[11:24] We kept the Trump tax cuts. We kept no tax on tips. We kept all the border stuff."

• Senator Mullen on Deficit Reduction:
  "[25:10] We're cutting $1.6 trillion in deficit, which is the largest deficit reduction in any Congress or in the history of Congress."

• Charlie Kirk on Senate Procedures:
  "[24:21] The US Senate is getting in the way of the people. It's as if there are all these places that have been built to fortify the defenses against the will of the people."

• Senator Mullen on Overriding Rules:
  "[23:28] ... Senate was designed for the purpose of the majority rules that are. The House was. The Senate was designed to slow down and give the minority a voice."

Final Thoughts

This episode of The Charlie Kirk Show provides a critical examination of the legislative challenges faced by Republicans in the Senate, particularly the procedural barriers imposed by parliamentarians like Elizabeth McDonough. Through an in-depth conversation with Senator Mark Wayne Mullen, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the interplay between legislative intent, procedural rules, and the broader political landscape. The discussion underscores the tension between achieving policy goals and navigating the complexities of Senate rules, highlighting the ongoing struggle to align legislative actions with the electorate's will.