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- [00:04]
A
My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro American student organization in the country, fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You gotta stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a Turning Point USA College chapter. Go start a Turning Point USA High School chapter. Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade. Most important decision I ever made in my life. And I encourage you to do the same. Here I am, Lord.
- [00:47]
B
Use me.
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A
Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. The Charlie Kirk show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold. But the leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends and viewers.
- [01:09]
B
All right. Welcome to hour two, the Charlie Kirk Show. I'm Andrew Colvett. Blake Neff's to my left. Defected. Switch sides of the table. And the reason being is that in studio we have the great Dr. James Orr. Pleasure to have you, sir.
- [01:23]
C
Great to be with you, Andrew. Great to be with you, Blake.
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B
Well, it's always a treat. You know, some of my best, most favorite last memories with Charlie you happen to be a part of as well. And so that is really close to my heart and I know to yours as well, and I'm glad we had that time and then you came back afterwards and I know you've made some trips to Phoenix and you're going to be joining us for Amfest. So I think we're all excited. You're actually going to be moderating some discussions.
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C
So I believe I've only just found. Found this out maybe a few days ago.
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B
I'm really excited we volunteered you for.
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C
I think I've got three debates to moderate. That's amazing. Including some pretty neuralgic difficult topics. I think there's one on. Well, there's one on God. Don't get harder than that. There's one on Israel. And I think they thought, well, who are we going to give the hospital pass to? Let's send it to the Brit. Who cares if he blows up.
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B
Yeah, exactly. It's not like you have your own reputation to Worry about here, Dr. Orr. You, of course are very active with reform in the uk. How things going over there?
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C
Things are going extremely well. In fact, in many ways There isn't really a historical precedent for how well Reform UK is doing. How so? Well, what we're witnessing is really the emergence for the first time in the history of British politics, a new party of the right that is credible, that has increasingly very strong popular support. I think we've been leading at about a 160 polls, poll after poll. We've made some amazing incursions electorally. Back in May, swept the local elections. Looks like we're going to do extremely well in Wales and in Scotland. So the energy is extraordinary at the moment. We're sometimes polling higher than the combined polling of the Labour Party and the Conservative Party, the two historic parties.
- [03:19]
D
I want to highlight that they've had a few different parties towards the left end of the politics. They used to have the Liberals and they're still around, but they're small and they got replaced by Labor. But the Conservatives and before them the Tories, they're older than America. There was a, I believe it was a Tory Prime Minister when the American Revolution broke out.
- [03:35]
C
Absolutely, absolutely.
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D
And they've been the party of government typically in Britain for 300 years and it might all go down in flames.
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B
And, you know, are we still. First question, what's the animating factor?
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C
Well, I think for the one very important animating factor is a negative one, namely just the routine betrayal and incompetence of successive Labour and Tory governments over certainly over the last 25 years, over the Tory period. You know, the Conservatives let in their last Parliament from sort of 2019 to 2024, more legal and illegal migrants than we've seen in our history.
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D
Why?
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C
Well, all sorts of complicated reasons behind it, but I think part of the problem was a belief in the dogma of the treasury that the British economy will collapse if we don't keep the Ponzi scheme going, if we don't keep bringing in hundreds of thousands, indeed millions of people to help to help prop up the economy and do the jobs that Brits don't want to do. It's the same old story.
- [04:46]
D
Yeah, well, it's so appalling just because you did the Biden wave, except they call it Boris wave there. And it was, I think, higher than Biden's level of immigration when you adjust.
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C
For the size of the country.
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D
And with a right wing government, they've had only right of center governments in the UK until Starmer from 2010 to last year and they did the full open border spiel from the right.
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C
That's exactly right. And so that's, I think that's the, the first thing that's really driving support for us because reform has been very, very clear on migration from, from, from the very beginning. It's very clear on the fiscal suicide of net zero and the need to get some energy independence and energy sovereignty. It's been very clear on questions of free speech. We had the passing of the Online Safety act just, just a few months ago and this is a, this is really a censorship charter using the wedge of trying to get some statutory protection for children online. But folded into that enormous piece of legislation was effectively measures and tools that equip Ofcom, our media regulator, with enormous powers to censor and even substack is now having to censor certain articles to comply with the legislation.
- [06:02]
D
I think even X announced today that they just said some of our material is going to have to be taken down in Europe and you have to watch out for what you post because you're calling. But we can't defy these laws just yet.
- [06:13]
C
We need. The European Union is developing its own kind of censorship charter that is even more draconian and it's extraordinary what's happening. And so we're very committed to getting free speech right if we ever got into power. And it's quite straightforward to do it. There's just, just a few provisions in, a few acts here and there that need to be amended or clarified or simply repealed and that could have an enormous downstream effect on the culture of freedom. You guys are so lucky.
- [06:45]
D
In Britain they just have supremacy of Parliament. They can essentially just, if you have a majority, you can pass any law you want on anything. But I want to, on the free speech thing, can you talk about the Islamophobia definition that's been going on in the past couple days? That's another concern.
- [07:00]
C
Yeah. So this has been a long running debate in the public square over the last few years in Britain and there's been a big push on the left and now with the Labour Party, which has an enormous majority in the House of Commons, to effectively legislate a definition and protect, or rather, yeah, protect any, anyone who feels themselves to be a victim of Islamophobia. And so there's been a lot of back and forth and actually Parliament has been working very well. There's been excellent Tory MPs who've been getting up and pointing out just what an incursion on freedom of speech and freedom of religion this definition would be. Because effectively what they're trying to do is to elide sort of beliefs with identity. And so the thought is that, you know, to be a Muslim is to have a particular identity rather than to have that identity in virtue of subscribing to a set of beliefs, beliefs that plainly can be criticized in any free democracy and should be criticized, should be open to criticism.
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A
But.
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C
So the government's backed down and trying to tweak the definition and now it's something like anti Muslim, anti Muslim hatred or anti Muslim. Yeah, I think it's anti Muslim hatred. And the problem with that is it just, you know, it just bakes in the problem.
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B
Do they have anti white hatred?
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C
They technically have a policy. Technically, yes. I mean, there is all of this sort of exists under the equality legislation. But this would be a special provision. It would be a special protection which. Well, they're trying to say by shifting to anti Muslim hate as opposed to Islamophobia, we've kind of solved the problem. But we don't, because again, the assumption is there that somehow to be a Muslim is to be a member of a race or to be a member of an ethnic group which plainly you're not. You're a Muslim. Just if you can do the Shahada three times or whatever it might be, the three of us could become Muslims in the next half hour. It's completely nothing to do with our ethnicity or race.
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D
I'm looking at the latest draft definition and it includes as something that would be banned and the prejudicial stereotyping and racialization of Muslims to stir up hatred against them. That just strikes me as an incredibly broad thing, stereotyping of Muslims to say there's a common trait that a lot of Muslims have.
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C
Well, I think that, I mean, what you would have to say to speak to a trait that a lot of Muslims have is you'd have to pick out some doctrinal commitment, you know, some belief that should be contestable in a free democracy. It's not. There's nothing distinctive ethnically or racially distinctive about being Muslim, as we said. It's simply whether or not you sign up to a belief system. And so what it's doing is it's protecting that belief system, protecting the identity that you have in virtue of signing up to the belief system.
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D
It's an ideological belief. And then you say you can't stereotype a belief system. Well, what is it then?
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B
Well, yeah, but what about, you know, genital mutilation of young girls? That tends to be something that happens in Muslim African nations. What about the grooming gangs that tend to be centralized within a particular immigrant group that happen to be Muslims. So then all of a stuff, all of a sudden these get very sticky, these topics.
- [10:11]
C
Absolutely right. I mean, what's interesting about that is that ironically, this legislation could make people think that target criticism about grooming gangs or criticism about female genital mutilation is something somehow a widespread shared Islamic belief. But it's not. It's actually, you know, certainly the grooming gangs come from a very particular area of Pakistan and FGM is, you know, localized in parts of sub Saharan Africa.
- [10:37]
E
This is Lane Schoenberger, chief investment officer and founding partner of Yrefi. It has been an honor and a privilege to partner with Turning Point and for Charlie to endorse us, his endorsement means the world to us and we look forward to continuing our partnership with Turningpoint for years to come. Now here Charlie in his own words tell you about why Refi.
- [10:57]
A
I'm going to tell you guys about yrefi.com that is yrefy.com why refi is incredible. Private student loan debt in America totals about $300 billion. Why refi is refinancing distress or defaulted private student loans. You can finally take control of your student loan situation with a plan that works for your monthly budget. Go to yrefi.com that is whyrefi.com do you have a co borrower or why refi can get them released from the loan. You can even skip a payment up to 12 times without penalty. It may not be available in all 50 states. Go to yrefi.com that is yrefy.com let's face it, if you have distress or default to student loans, it can be overwhelming because of privacy loan debt. So many people feel stuck. Go to yrefi.com that is yrefy.com Private student loan debt relief. Why refi.com.
- [11:46]
B
So tell us, establish yourself, your bona fides. What do you do? Who are you?
- [11:51]
C
Well, my, my main job vocation is in academia so I'm an associate professor of philosophy religion at Cambridge in England where I teach undergraduates, I teach graduate students, PhD students, so I love doing that. But I have another day job now where as senior advisor to Nigel Farage, leader of Reform uk And and we are all expecting our next Prime Minister 2029. Well, 2029 is the latest that the election can be called and I'm not sure the country can last that long. But it's possible that the government will fall before that. We're good at getting very good at getting rid of prime ministers. Getting rid of governments is a lot harder.
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B
Yeah. Okay.
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C
Turkeys don't vote for Christmas, which you have to vote for the government to fall, even if they hate the head turkey. Yeah, I know, exactly.
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B
We do turkey at Christmas, but it's more of a. Thanks. I don't know.
- [12:42]
C
Anyways.
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B
All right, Nostradamus, or when would you predict that we're actually going to be able to vote again in the UK? Is it going to be 2029 or you predict before?
- [12:53]
C
Well, I mean, the first thing to say is that we've got what Nigel is calling our midterms, sort of an American phrase, but we have got a big set of regional, local devolved elections next May. So the whole of Wales gets to vote for its local parliament. Same in Scotland. And then there's thousands of seats around Greater London and all around England that are going to be up for grabs. And we're expecting a turquoise tsunami. We're expecting Reform UK to do extremely well in all of those elections. And that will be the last time that the British people get to express their democratic will before the next general election. The latest that can be constitutionally, is the first week of August 2029. And it could be that Keir Starmer, many people don't think he's going to be prime minister for that much longer, but whoever his successor would have until the first week of August 2029. But it could be that something happens before that. We're expecting a recession, we're expecting perhaps a very tight credit squeeze before 2029. So it's not impossible that we'd be looking at a General Election 2027. I think I'm probably, you know, more inclined to say it's going to be 2029. I think the last hundred years, the British government's fallen maybe once when you change prime minister, you don't change the British government, you just change the leader of the party who's got the majority in Parliament.
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D
And it just seems to me, I can't figure out why labor would call an election just to get killed. Hold power while you have it.
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C
Exactly. As I said earlier, you know, turkeys don't vote for Christmas, even if they hate the head turkey, which they do. And indeed, the whole of the British.
- [14:28]
D
Left, he is quite a turkey.
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C
The whole. Pretty bland, definitely. But yeah, the whole of the British left now is really cannibalizing itself. It's splintering off into all kinds of different movements. We've seen for the first time ever, really, the Green Party now getting into well into double digits in the polls.
- [14:44]
D
Could we get Green versus reform as it's not unthinkable.
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B
It's not unlike what we have in the United States. States. In some ways it's MAGA versus Mamdani.
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C
Right? Yeah. I mean, so it's very, very interesting seeing the parallels between somebody like Mandani and Zach Polanski, who is this? The new leader of the Green Party. And it's growing very, very fast as a party. It's easy. I think you only pay like £5 to get in. So it'd probably be quite easy to do some entryism and maybe hijack the Green Party. But as far as we're concerned, it's fantastic. You know, may many flowers on the British left bloom. Because it's basically fracturing the vote between, you know, you've got sort of the focus on. Well, I mean there are. You focus on the crescent, you might say.
- [15:32]
B
There's a.
- [15:32]
C
There's a focus on the rainbow, there's a focus on the star with the old socialists. So this is not gonna, not gonna work out well. And the cracks are emerging. The parliamentary Labour Party is very welfarist, very, very statist. Starmer tried to get a tiny little haircut, £5 billion off our ballooning 300 billion pound a year welfare bill and he couldn't get it through even though he had a majority in parliament of about 175seats. And that's the most, you know, just a very, very tiny, very, very small exercise of kind of restraining our public expenditure. So, yeah, things. And things are not looking good on that side of, on that, on that side of British politics. And on the right. Yes, there are supposed. There are also figures popping up. There's a Tommy Robinson's, there's Rupert Lowes, there's Ben Habibs. These are interesting figures on the right. So it's not like we're completely unified, but that's where the energy is. I think there's a feeling that that's where the, the policy energy is. That's where the people are. It's where the best ideas are fizzing on the right.
- [16:42]
D
So we just discussed with Steve Dase, our last guest, about the recurring Republican problem of elect people to restrict immigration or do other bold things. And they just get these feet of clay in office. So I suppose one obvious concern is reform wins a landslide. 27 or 29. Do they have the stones to go through with a big immigration cutback or moratorium or other big sweeping things? Or is there going to be a lot of. Are people going to wuss out at the, at the Brink.
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C
Yeah. Somebody told me, I think was about a year ago that the process, there's a name for that process, what happens to you as you got to go in. And melonification. Melonification, which I think actually in retrospect is probably unfair to Giorgia Meloni who is reputed to have come in with talking tough on migration and then actually folded as soon as she, as soon as she got in. But actually I think if you look at her numbers, what she's done, her track record, it's been pretty impressive. So it's going to be very, very challenging. We're going to be up against one of the most effective blobs, as it were, as you call it, in England, in the world. It's enormous inertia, huge resistance probably to almost all of our program, despite we're having widespread popular support across all the different parties regaining control of our borders. So it's going to be extremely difficult. We're going to be up against the judicial industrial complex, the human rights lawyers.
- [18:02]
B
I'm very fascinated. That was actually my question about legally, what are you guys going to. Trump gets stopped at every judge, every district judge with a gavel and a robe. And I can only imagine just knowing the nature, somewhat of the English intelligentsia that you're going to be up against a real stiff fight.
- [18:25]
A
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- [18:40]
B
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- [19:32]
A
Call 972 Patriot today or go to patriotmobile.com Charlie. Use promo code Charlie for a free month of service. That's patriotmobile.com Charlie. Or call 972 Patriot and make the switch today.
- [19:45]
B
We've got a full house here. Dr. James Orr, Blake Neff, myself. And we're about to bring in one more. Joining us now is Todd Nettleton, author of When Faith Is Forbidden. He's also the voice of the Martyrs Radio host. Todd. Todd, welcome to the show.
- [20:02]
F
Thanks so much. Good to be with you.
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B
Yeah, honored to be with you. You're also joined by Dr. James Orr from Cambridge. And this is an issue near and dear to his heart as well. So we're going to have a fun. Well, not a fun. It's a serious and important conversation. You have been traveling around interviewing persecuted Christians in South Asia. And I think a lot of people, a lot of discussion right now is about Nigeria. This is kind of, if you're going to talk about this topic, that's where you're focused on. But you know, there are other areas of the world that we need to be aware of where Christians are being persecuted actively right now. Please tell us about some of your stories out of South Asia.
- [20:39]
F
Yeah, one of the things we heard repeatedly in South Asia was stories of Christians being affected by the anti conversion laws in India. So Multiple states now, 12 states in India have passed laws that make it illegal to change your religion and illegal to encourage someone else to change their religion. So right now in India, there are dozens of pastors in prison under these anti conversion laws. And one of the interesting things is the inducement, the idea of inducing someone to change their faith is illegal. We actually had an interview and we've aired it now on Voice of the Martyrs Radio with a human rights attorney who is talking about if you set up donuts and coffee before your church service, the government can come in and say, hey, that's an illegal inducement. You're giving donuts and coffee away. You're tricking people into changing their religion. That's the kind of silliness that these laws are based on. Here's the other thing, though. It is not illegal to reconvert someone to Hinduism. In fact, an Indian member of Parliament just in the last few weeks has presided over what they call a reconversion ceremony, reconverting people back to Hinduism. They can do that by force. But if a Christian invites you to church, if the Christian gives you donuts and coffee, that's an illegal inducement to change your religion.
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B
Wow. So 12 states. I had to look this up. There's 28 states in India, so we're at nearly half of the country of India. It is now legal. And I don't know population, you know, what percentage of the population that would make up. But that is striking, especially for a British, former British run colony, if you will. So when did that start changing? I'm curious, when did those laws start passing?
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F
Well, they really took a lot of momentum when Prime Minister Modi, who has come out of this Hindu nationalist movement called the rss, that is his background. He's the Prime Minister of the whole country of India. And so he has brought that philosophy to the highest levels of the Indian government. Now they have talked about a national anti conversion law. So far that has not happened. But there are individual states where they have passed these anti conversion laws. And you know, when they talk about sounds like a good idea, like, hey, we don't want people to be bribed or forced to change their religion. And I think all of us would say, yeah, that, that's true, we don't want that. But then like I say, when you get to what the law actually says and some of the laws, there's one state that says if you want to change your religion, you need to go before a magistrate and say that you're going to change your religion. And if you want to talk to someone else about changing their religion, what us Christians would call evangelism, you need to go before a magistrate six months before you have that conversation. And you need to appear and say, hey, in six months, I'm going to talk to my neighbor about coming to church with me. I just want to get your okay, Mr. Magistrate. And it's like, you read that and you're like, that's ludicrous. No one could do that. No one would do that. Yes, exactly. So when you have that conversation, then they can come in and say, well, hey, six months ago you didn't go to the magistrate. That was illegal. You're going off to jail.
- [23:56]
B
You know, it kind of makes me think of this story that's kind of percolating and we haven't talked about it yet. But Rep. Mark Walker from North Carolina, he's Trump's nominee for religious freedom and he's just been waiting for a committee hearing. So we can't seem to get that through. He's getting blocked, apparently by a former political foe. But these are the types of stories we need to be educated on about why those types of posts are so important within the Trump administration. Let's kind of keep going around the map here. So we talked about South Asia. There's issues in Central Asia and there's obviously Nigeria. Highlight the stories that you think our audience needs to hear most.
- [24:39]
F
Well, I think of Nigeria, obviously it's in the news. Just on Sunday, there was another raid on a church. 13 Christians kidnapped out of their church. Right now, we don't know, was this Boko Haram? Was this ISIS West Africa Province? Was it just a criminal gang that wants ransom? They're trying to fundraise and so they're kidnapping people for ransom? Right now we don't know that. But this is happening again and again and again. And I think at some point you start to ask the question, well, is the Nigerian government incapable of stopping these kinds of attacks or do they not have the will to stop these kinds of attacks? And those are valid questions. Since President Trump named Nigeria as a country of particular concern earlier this year. It's going to be really interesting to see how the State Department plays that out and what, what tools are brought to bear to help Nigeria. Again, typically it's not the government of Nigeria that is persecuting Christians. It is these terrorist groups. It is Islamists from among the Fulani tribe. It is other, other sort of smaller players. So it's going to be interesting to see how that CPC status plays out and how the State Department sort of acts that out in our relationship with Nigeria.
- [25:54]
B
Well, and one of the more surprising things, I don't know if you've heard this story, Dr. Orr, but Nicki Minaj of all people has been helping raise awareness. You can throw up 262. She gave a keynote remark on combating religious violence and the killing of Christians in Nigeria. She's been willing to work with the Trump administration to raise awareness on this. I mean, this is a, I have to say, I've not traditionally been a fan of the rapper known as Nicki Minaj, but I mean, good for her. How many Christians have been silent, how many conservatives have been silent about the persecution of the Christian church in Nigeria, the slaughter of Christians? And then Nicki Minaj comes here and she helps make it a national news story, an international news story. It already was one. But raising the profile of that story, have you seen movement even at Voice of the Martyrs since she's gotten involved?
- [26:54]
F
It is interesting to have other voices that you weren't expecting. Bill Maher did the same thing raising the issue of Nigerian persecution. So you have Bill Maher and you have Nicki Minaj. And if you Have President Trump all talking about the persecution of Christians in Nigeria. I don't think any of us would have predicted that at the beginning of this year.
- [27:13]
B
Yeah. Let's take our sights to Syria. There's kind of conflicting reports, but I know that Christians are getting targeted in Syria as well. What can you tell us there?
- [27:25]
F
Well, the Syrian government, the new Syrian government now almost a year old, a year since the fall of Bashar al Assad there in Syria, what they have said to the rest of the world is we want religious freedom. We want a Syria that is safe for every religion. We know that there are Syrians who are Christians and there are Syrians who are Druze and there are Syrians who are Muslim. And we want to all live together in peace. And the rest of the world hears that and we're like, yes, that's great. We want that, too. What they're saying, though, inside Syria is very different. And we have had contact with Syrian pastors who have are hearing from the government or hearing from the soldiers. You Christians, just you wait. Wait till we get our feet on the ground. Wait till we get our government established. Then we're going to take care of you. So what they're telling the rest of the world, the Syrian government is not what they're telling Christians living inside Syria. And Christians there are understandably very concerned. If you're a father or a mother and you have young children in Syria and you're a Christian right now, you're asking yourself every single day, is it safe for our children? Is it safe to raise our children here or should we try to go somewhere else? That's a huge challenge. And that's just reality of following Christ right now in Syria.
- [28:42]
B
Well, that's. Thank you for that update. And you know, it occurs to me and you guys kind of flag this for us is that during the Christmas season, persecution of Christians actually increases. So, you know, for our audience listening, what do they need to know about that? Why is that a thing and what can they do to help?
- [29:01]
F
Well, if you hate Christians, if you hate the gospel, what better time to make a statement like that than on the day Christians are celebrating the birth of Christ? So Christians have been targeted in recent years in Democratic Republic of the Congo, in Bangladesh, in Nigeria, in Egypt. And so we want Christians here in America, as you gather around the table, as you are with your family, as you're with your loved ones, we hope that you'll remember to pray for Christians who live in hostile areas and restricted nations. They are at more risk around the Christmas season, more risk around Christian holy days. And so as we gather together in safety, let's pray for the members of our spiritual family who don't have that safety and just pray that God will protect them during this Christmas season.
- [29:50]
B
Yeah, and we have a URL here as well that I want to make sure we put up. And it's vom.orgcharlie. vom.orgcharlie. So if you want to be a voice for religious freedom, if you want to stand with your brothers and sisters in Christ around the globe that are facing persecution and in some cases, genocide, please, please, please, this Christmas season when they need you the most, consider being a part of what Voice of the Martyrs is doing. We love this organization. We love what they're doing. And Todd, I just, you know, really, really appreciate you highlighting these areas of the world where we need to be praying. We should be praying for the persecuted church. We should be doing what we can to contribute financially, especially right now. And, you know, final words to you, Todd.
- [30:44]
F
Well, when you come to that website, we'd love to send you a free book that has stories of persecuted Christians. And this is a way to be inspired all year long as you read the stories of people who would rather go to prison or rather be beaten or rather be killed than deny their faith in Christ. I think there's great lessons and great inspiration for all of us who are Christians in these stories.
- [31:08]
B
That is vom.org Charlie to get involved, help out. Thank you so much, Todd. God bless you.
- [31:14]
F
Thank you.
- [31:17]
B
Good conversation is about showing respect. It's how we create a space where people are able to share their ideas and to be heard. Charlie knew that TikTok has always strived to build that kind of place that thrives on respectful connection, where curiosity fuels connection, and we can share what's on our minds and learn from each other. When ideas meet respect, good things happen. On TikTok, you can find a mechanic explaining the why behind a problem most of us wouldn't even know how to name, or a father sharing a lifetime of knowledge with his viewers. Viewers who listen, Discuss, and respond. TikTok turns connection into community through small acts of understanding. You can feel it in the comments, in the thank you from a stranger halfway across the world. TikTok is a place where respect opens the door for discussion, and discussion helps us build something real.
- [32:07]
A
Portions of our program are sponsored in part by TikTok.
- [32:12]
B
What is the. I mean, so we're talking about persecution all over sort of the developing world, Asia, Central Asia, Africa, the Middle east, certainly what what's the state of Christendom in Europe in the uk?
- [32:28]
C
Well, I guess it's post Christendom. And you could say maybe the story of Europe in the 20th century, maybe even the 19th century, is how to fit, put Humpty Dumpty back together again after the fall of Christendom, after the fall of the Holy Roman Empire. And you could think of even the European Union as an attempt to come up with some sort of secular sequel to Christendom, like a way of trying to, you know, bind us, bind Europe together into a sort of single collective entity. But I remember back in 2004, five, when they were trying to push through a constitution on, on the eu, there was an attempt made to make reference to just the Christian and Jewish inheritance of Europe as well as the Hellenic and Enlightenment ones. And there was a huge political battle over it. And in the end they said, no, we're not making any mention of it at all. So that, that's the sort of broad context across Europe, you might say, in Britain itself, you know, there's, there's evidence, I think some evidence that there's been a quiet revival over the last five years. Big spikes in Bible buying, big spikes in commitment to God, at least some kind of spirituality. So there are some interesting, interesting signs. But broadly speaking, the institutional church, the Church of England, has chronically failed Christians in Britain, in England, for many, many years now on all of the really sort of hot button political issues. It's taken aside. Now that's not something that the Church should really be doing. It certainly shouldn't be doing it as aggressively as it has been doing it. I was saying to somebody the other day that actually the bishops in the House of Lords are voting more often against the Conservative government than the Labour Party. My friend Ed west calls Britain. He says we're the world's only left wing theocracy.
- [34:18]
B
That's a bad, that's a bad recipe. Anyway, so the final, final segment here, we've only got about two minutes left. You're going to be at Amfest. What does a British man do surrounded by tens of thousands of Conservative Americans?
- [34:33]
C
Well, actually, you know what, I've had some practice because I was at Charlie's memorial. I managed to make it over in time from England and that was, if it's anything like that, I'm def. Really looking forward to Amfest. And Charlie invited me back in August and I just assumed that it wouldn't happen, but it did. I'm just thrilled to be here. And I remember saying, what is Amfest and he explained to me what it was and then I said, well, you want me to speak? What do you want me to say? He said, I know exactly what you're going to say. Don't worry, I'll tell you exactly what to say. I'll write your speech for you. And I never followed up with him, but I'm just thrilled to be here and I hope I can honor him on stage and honor him with the various debates that I'm privileged to be moderating. So, yeah, can't wait. We don't do that kind of thing in England. And just yet, yet maybe this is something we could, we could bring over. But yeah, the energy, the momentum, the sense of excitement, the, the vision that's just holding the movement together is, is, is just awe inspiring and it's just great for us to bring back, as I've said before, bring back some Kirk juice to, to Britain.
- [35:35]
B
Well, and, and you're gonna have Reform Fest, obviously that's gonna be Brit Fest. Brit Fest.
- [35:40]
C
Brit Fest.
- [35:40]
B
And then you're gonna, you're gonna have, and your mentee is gonna be there, he's gonna be finishing up. He's going to be finishing, he's going to be the final speaker on Sunday. And of course, I mean, J.D. vance, there was a bit of an inside joke. Well, it's not an inside, it's been published, but an unfortunate headline about your relationship with J.D. vance, Vice President J.D. vance, who's amazing. He's gonna be, we're grateful to have him on the, on the Sunday.
- [36:07]
C
So it'll be a great, great climax to a fantastic event.
- [36:11]
B
Yeah, it's, it's truly, truly gonna be something. And you'll see the rowdiness and the different, different ideas and the different factions and facets of the conservative movement. But this is what it's all about, bringing everybody together. And let's have the debates, but let's be unified and let's, let's kick off our push into 2026 on a high note. And that would, there's no better way to do that than to remember the incredible legacy of Charlie Kirk. And so we're looking for. Forward to it. It's going to be bittersweet, but Charlie would want us to make the most of it. Thank you, Dr. Orr.
- [36:42]
C
Great to be with you, babe. For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.