So thank you for that. Well, it's annoying to me to be attacked by people who don't know what they're talking about. Right. So it's one thing if you have your doubts, like, why isn't she saying this about that? Or this about the other thing. And then maybe you reach out to me and say, is there another reason? Like, is there something. I don't know, but to see people who I consider like long term friends go out and publicly call me a coward when you, you and I both know how much we've talked behind the scenes about how to handle this problem. What are the options? What do we all think is the best option? You too, Blake? We could do this. We could do this, we could do that. Let's try this. Maybe we'll do a baby step this way. You know, we've all been talking for months, and then it graduated to, you know, it was ramping up. And then Erica called me and it was her, it was her idea to meet with Candace and she said, I want to do it. And I originally said, are you sure you want to do that? Like, you know, Candice said, one word from you will silence this. And maybe you just have to give her a word. Maybe if you just send her a note or a letter, try, try peace. Like, maybe. Maybe Candace wants an off ramp potentially. I don't know. I don't know Candace that well. I know her a little. I've gotten to know her a little better over the past few months, so. But Erica really didn't want to do that. She thought it was important that it be like an in person meeting and that she allow herself to be subjected to whatever questions Candace had. And she said, will you please be a part of that with me? Like, will you go with me? And of course I said, yes, I'll go. And at that moment, I felt it was. I was very lucky that I hadn't been leading attacks against Candace because, I mean, obviously I disagreed with her on all the things she said about you guys in Turning Point. I said that on my show many times. I mean, I made very clear to everybody I don't agree with these theories, and this is what I think happened, and all the evidence suggests it is this man and whatever. But I was very happy that I hadn't gone scorched earth on Candace Owens because I was in a position where I would have been acceptable to her. And sure enough, she and I had a text exchange shortly after mine with Erica where she was like, I'm glad it's you. Yes, I'll do it. And I just, just, excuse me, just saw Erica backstage and she said, you can say whatever, you can tell everybody what's happened. But the original plan was that we were going to have a live stream on the day you guys were going to do the live stream in Arizona was the first plan. Erica, Candice, and yours truly as more of a facilitator. Those. Those two were gonna do it, and I was gonna be there just to keep everybody within the lines.
Megyn Kelly (5:02)
And then Candace said she was facing a security threat out here in Arizona and that she couldn't. She wasn't going to come. And Erica said, I'll come to you. Which I was surprised Erica said that, you know, because if Erica didn't really want to do this, she easily could have been like, okay. I offered, but she was like, no, I'll come to Nashville.
Megyn Kelly (5:24)
So I was like, wow. Like, Erica's strong. She's like, she's to going. Going through a lot right now, and she's got her kids, and she had just come off of, like, Charlie's book tour was in the middle of it, so it was like, a lot. And I will say to her credit, Candace actually wound up saying okay to that, though. They. The. The live stream idea died, and they wound up deciding that they would just meet the two of them, since they weren't going to put this out on the airwaves for public consumption, which was fine with me. And I thought that was a good idea. And look, I mean, it's up to them to talk about, you know, what did and did not happen there. But my. The initial impression, I think it's fair to say, from both women was that it went well and that it ended in a much better place than where it started. Now, will that hold what's more fragile, the Gaza peace, fire or this situation? I know Eric is not going to do anything. The question is, where's Candace going to take it? And I've seen what she's doing this week. I really don't know. My only goal all along has been to try not to take sides in, not the turning point thing, but in the Israel battle that's happening in the conservative movement, such that I can make room for people who are upset with Israel and not fans of Israel's behavior and still, you know, have room for the people who are ardently pro Israel, as I have been, as Charlie was for all those years. And then that morph, like, it started off like an insistence that I condemn the people who are anti Israel into an insistence that I condemn every single iteration of what they were saying forevermore. And then it felt too BLM for me, and I was like, I'm out.
Andrew (6:58)
It reminds me of what Russell Brand said from stage where he was just like, I'm so against, like, authority. Like, I have to rage against it. And it was like, there is a thing, you know, Tucker's kind of like that too. When you tell Tucker he can't talk about something, he's going to talk about it. Like, do. If you want him to talk about it, just do the reverse psychology with Tucker. You cannot talk about UFOs. And then the guy's gonna just go all in on UFOs for like a year and a half.
Andrew (8:14)
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Megyn Kelly (11:17)
So, yeah, So I very much felt like, this is so out of line. This is so uncalled for. Who wouldn't call me? These guys, they actually know me. I'm in both of their cell phones. They have my number. Who wouldn't Just call me up and say, is there something else going on here that I need to know? Right. Like, what's going on? Nope. It's more fun to go out on the stage and call a dear friend and Ben couch it with, oh, she's a friend. With friends like that and call them a coward. Okay. Take it up with Erica.
Andrew (12:02)
Yeah, it was like this. Yeah. What are these? It is very interesting when you look at the divisions on the right, you know, and that's why I started this conversation by praising that you were trying to be a peacemaker, that you were trying to hold your fire and you were actually trying to do the right thing, where you. You were strategically doing something which people interpreted as cowardice. You were actually playing a long game to help bring peace to a situation that was pretty volatile. And that's why I want people to know that why you did what you did, why I did not personally take offense, why I was, you know, all that thing, all those things. And. But the divisions are, are real. And they do tend to come down along this. A lot of this is the Israel. It's the neocon. It's the Israel issue. And, you know, it's funny, I got a press inquiry going about that. We just celebrated one of the hostages on stage, and they were at the. The music festival, 505 days in captivity. They're like, well, with all the Israel stuff, you know, and I was like, wait, are you conflating a foreign policy debate with whether or not it's okay for somebody to be held hostage for 505 days? Why, why have we lost our ever loving minds about something that's a leftist statement.
Megyn Kelly (13:30)
I'm sorry. But you may say it's deeply wrong that we would ever divide America over a foreign country. I do think there is a contingent within the pro Israeli group that is Israel First. They really are. They're proving it every day. And, you know, this is some of what I'm going to talk about tonight, but I don't see it that way at all. I'm not. The people who are my enemy are the people who shot Charlie Kirk. It's the people who want all of us dead because we're at a Turning Point convention. It is not someone who doesn't like Israel or Bibi Netanyahu or even somebody who has some negative associations with not Jewish people writ large, but with the Jewish activists who are a bunch of bullies. I understand the criticism against them because I've been on the receiving end of it. Notwithstanding the fact that I've never said one word against Israel, not one word. It's my failure to condemn as if I am mother of the Internet. I mean, it's ridiculous. So I really think these. The pro Israel advocates, like, the most loud and outspoken ones, are the ones who are tearing the movement apart.
Andrew (14:40)
Yeah. It was interesting because there was a lot made after Charlie was assassinated about the meeting in the Hamptons. Like, it became this, like, oh, it all went down at the Hamptons, and that's why Charlie's dead. And, you know, it's funny, I talked to Charlie, and he was like, I was kind of boring, whatever. And I talked to all the team. Nothing like, exceptional, really. That exceptional happened, at least in Charlie's mind. And I asked him, I was like, what was the whole point of the Hampton scene? He was like, oh, it was an intervention. I was like, for them on you or you on them? He's like, oh, yeah, for me on them. I needed to tell, like, my Jewish friends, like, they're. They're causing more damage than they are good. And they're driving people away. And I. And you know, and then another thing that went viral was you and Charlie's conversation on your show right after that. Yeah. Where he was just, like, so annoyed at the moral blackmailing. And it's like, we are. We are your friends. You know, you don't.
Andrew (15:28)
And I. And, you know, and I try and have a sensitivity for it, and I sympathize with it because, you know, just like you, I have been pro Israel my whole life. I've never really even questioned it. You know, I like them better than the other guys, you know, like, as an American, I mean, you know, we have similar enemies. You know, I love the Holy Land. I love, like, that my Lord and Savior walked there, you know, and that they are good stewards of a lot of those holy sites. But, you know, when you get To a point where you're like your friend, your, your friends have gone through this traumatic situation October 7th. You try and have sympathy for that and understand that it's been a traumatic experience, but, you know, we have to find a way through here, a third way through. And I think that's what Charlie was doing. He was trying to fight for a larger conversation that more people could feel a part of.
Megyn Kelly (16:15)
Both of us were. And that's why when he came on that show, you and I have talked about this many times, but when he came on my show on August 6, which was post the intervention, we were not planning on discussing Israel. I'm trying to get my exact timing right, because he came on once a month. So I think that was the August 6th one. We were not planning on discussing Israel at all. I just knew, I knew from seeing him at the Student Action Summit where we had a backstage exchange, that he had had it. And I was feeling the same. I was like, this is very annoying. I had said almost nothing about Israel. Literally. I'd gone on Piers Morgan and said, I think it's time to wrap it up for them because their approval rating is plummeting. Like the popularity of Israel and Netanyahu in America. They've already lost the liberals, they've lost independence. They're starting to lose Republicans, especially the young people, which is who Charlie spent his life surrounded by. So he knew too. And for that, the brigade turned and they were very, very angry that I said at the Steven National Summit that Epstein, if he was being controlled by anybody, any sort of foreign intelligence service, it was probably Mossad. Anti Semite. That's an anti Semitic, literally. Benjamin Netanyahu just sent out a tweet saying that within the past 20 days, is he anti Semitic? So it's like both of us were feeling, this is insane. Like, if they'll do this to two ardent advocates who have been on their side openly and avowedly for two years now, since 10, 7, not to mention before that, then they'll do this to anybody. And it really did cause me to start looking harder at some of the claims that they've been throwing out of anti Semitic. And to your point, Andrew, I'm going to say something else. And this is their fault. This is their fault. I've also been somebody who's knee jerk supported Israel my whole life. And then I got to Fox and you had to. It was not a question like, you must support Israel. Which was fine because that was my natural inclination anyway. But it's only now that I'M starting to reevaluate. Do I support Israel? Like, what is it about Israel that I support? Why have I been so knee jerk defensive of them? Is there another side to consider? Have I been intolerant of people who have a different argument on this? And do I need to do some soul searching on my certainty about what white hat warriors they are? And I'm telling you, it is not Hamas or the Palestinian protesters on Columbia campus who got me to start thinking that way. It is the bullies who are trying to censor speech on our side about this issue.
Andrew (20:53)
Well, and we had Young Jewish Leadership summits. We sent students to Israel to experience the Holy Land. Mostly Christians, by the way. And then what happened is this is how these lies get laundered. So these tweets go out in 2023, 2024, at the RNC there, you know, these New York Times journalists have to pump out like six stories a day. Eight. And when they're used to doing like one a week, Right. So they're not doing their normal fact checking. The New York Times, it was a Jewish writer out of Chicago. Forget his name, actually, off the top of my head. But he puts out like a headline, maybe 450 words story. Charlie Kirk, long known to have anti Semitic whatever, is speaking at the rnc. One of Israel's biggest supporters is labeled in the New York Times as an anti Semite. Then what happens? Charlie gets up to the stage at the rnc, starts giving his address. It's a huge moment for Charlie and cnn. Jake Tapper, they cut away from Charlie's speech and Jake Tapper goes, well, puts out the New York Times article and goes, Charlie's long had a reputation and a history of vile anti Semitism. And it's like, all fake. It's all fake. And I'm on the phone going, like, what? You know, and I'm. My job is to, like, yell at the reporter and like, you know, Dennis Prager and actually Mark Levin, God bless them both. They, they. I forced the New York Times to basically take their quotes and say, this is BS and garbage. But the damage was done from three. Three bad faith tweets to his 2024 RNC speech. And all of a sudden he's labeled as this. And he's like, what does a guy got to do to not be just like, you know, you know, labeled with the scarlet letter here?
Megyn Kelly (22:24)
Yeah, no, it's the anatomy of a smear. Yes, but I, like, look, I sound so trite, but truly, almost all of my closest friends are Jewish. Just so. I mean, I've been living on the Upper west side of Manhattan for the past 10 years. And I really believe that there is a serious objection, even amongst a lot of Jewish Americans to. To the bullies. Because you could write an article like this, that's the. That's what you just told us, is the anatomy of a smear. But you could. You could write a similar article that. The making of an anti Semite. That would start with these bullies trying to censor, harass, misrepresent, strong arm. This is no way to get people over to your side. It is blm, and they really need to listen to me because I have an unblemished record on support for Israel. I do. Not to mention American Jews, of whom I was extremely defensive. I wanted all those guys deported at Brown and Colombia. All these people who are visa holders out there protesting. Globalize. The Intifada. Get out. Get out. We don't want anti Semites here. But they need to look internally. These bullies who are running this coalition.
Andrew (24:29)
Well, and there was a larger conversation that, you know, Charlie was toying with this idea of, like, maybe. Maybe we just. We're defending Western civilization. You get to be a part of that. That was kind of one of the ideas we were throwing out. But, you know, the. The issue was, you know, Charlie is not Jewish, and he would go to some of these campuses and, you know, you're wrestling with young people over these ideologies and these ideas. And he would get 50 to 60% of his questions at some campuses on this one issue, he made Blake read, like, 48 books about Israel just to, like, arm, like, with fat.
Blake (25:22)
So sometimes it was, it was really big. I just remember very shortly after I started with Charlie, I was telling him, because he'd already had that. The griper experience in 2019 where they. With spamming, but I think he had compartmentalized that. And shortly after I started, I was telling him, charlie, this is going to be coming. There's going to be a huge wave of more anti overt antisemitism on the right among young people. Because that's just. That's clearly what the trend is headed towards. And he took that to heart. I saw him bring that up in conversations with people and he was trying to give them a heads up. And that's what would cause a lot of this anger, is he would come to them in love and say, guys, you have a huge problem coming and you need to adjust your strategy or you're going to be caught really badly off guard. And unfortunately, I think a lot of them didn't take that advice. And we're seeing his warning come to pass.
Megyn Kelly (27:34)
When all your friends and people you work with are fighting with each other, do you. When you. And you stay out of it, but you also stand for what's right, what is some advice that you have for a young girl to do the exact same thing? Oh, that's sweet. Thank you for asking that. I mean, I think you can. And what I've tried to do from the beginning on this, I think you can show empathy for both sides in their positions. And, you know, in the case of the Israel divide, that was kind of easy for me because I knew. I knew people on both sides, like Glenn Greenwald and Ben Shapiro are diametrically opposed on this issue and have been for a long time.
Megyn Kelly (28:06)
Both Jewish. And they both come on my show regularly for years. So I know them very well. And so I could listen to Glenn talk about Israel in a way that I didn't really agree with at all. But he's so smart that I. And I love him. He would educate me. You know, I'd learned some things about Israel. I was like, oh, that's actually not great. Okay, that's good to know. And then I talked to Ben, and he'd have good defenses on these things, and we'd go back and forth, but. So I think you have to make space. I'm sorry, I hate that phrase for both sides. It's very Hoda Copy.
Megyn Kelly (28:35)
No, exactly. They're all bad. Anyway. Show some empathy. Like, actually try to listen to the friends about their grievances. And it doesn't have to be. It doesn't. That's not talking about the other friends behind their back. That's you really trying to understand what the grievances are. And I generally am of the feeling that when you're talking to people, even if it's people you oppose ideologically or what have you, if you can give them a couple of points, you're going to advance the conversation, they're going to like you more, they're going to trust you more, and you can make inroads with them better, as opposed to just being like, well, I disagree. Well, you did the. You cheated with her boyfriend. You're terrible. Like, maybe it's more like, why? Why would you do that? Like, what was it?
Ashley (29:22)
I had a second question or a question. So I have a friend that I go to college with. He's been, you know, he's very involved. He's a geopolitician, you know, but he's also a liberal. He has been criticizing me for my support of Israel and he's been bringing up history lessons such as the USS Liberty, USS Liberty, I believe, attack that happened, and told him, like, why are we supporting Israel? Literally they're trying to take out Iran and then including with, trying to control Gaza and trying to, and you know, their attack back on Gaza after what God sure, Hamas did to Israel. And I told him, you know, I disagreed with him, but then all of a sudden how can I, you know, and we can have civil conversation, but when it comes to, when it, when it comes to trying to criticize Israel or try to like be soft on the issue, but then when it comes to Hamas, like he tries to justify, not justify it, but like be light about it.
Megyn Kelly (30:33)
You should go read the Hamas charter and your argument is going to get a lot better. Yeah, I think you should do what we used to do in the law, which is the best way to argue your side is to prepare the other sides first. Like go, go study what it is about the anti Israel side that, that he's attracted to, that you think is powerful when he makes points. Learn it, understand it, and then go back and study the pro Israel side and you'll be much better equipped to have these arguments and maybe you'll change your mind somewhat too. That's fine too. But honestly, you have to be very careful about the media on Israel because there are manipulations both ways. It's very heavy propaganda game here. I trust real clear politics. I go there every morning and they'll have op EDS from both the left and the right, including on Israel. And that's one place that won't corrupt your beautiful mind. So maybe start there.
Megyn Kelly (31:44)
That's right. Hi, Megan, my name's Ashley and I just want to thank you for being here. I have a quick question. What cultural issue do you think conservatives should Be talking about more, but we just aren't. Well, I hate to say it, given what's happening this week, but. Pot, marijuana, Amen. I really do. I think, like this. I'm totally against, like, making it more accessible, and I understand Trump is trying to make it allegedly more. More accessible for people who need it for medical purposes, but today's pot is not the pot that we grew up with back in the 80s. Though I've never tried pot. Do you believe it? Yeah. Never tried a drug of any kind other than alcohol. There we go.
Andrew (33:27)
Yeah. No, and by the way, even with the story with Tyler Robinson and Lance Twiggs, assassin of Charlie, Alleged. I guess I don't know if I'm legally supposed to say that or whatever, he did it, but the point is, you know, they were just sitting around an apartment, like, vaping thc, just constantly, just. And so you imagine how the potency of it and the psych. What do you call it? The psychosis. Yeah. Psychotropic effects of THC and that high dosages. I mean. And if you're young and you're using a lot of pot and a lot of weed, it can really impact the rest of your life. It can really lead to some very terrible things. So I love that answer.
Andrew (34:38)
I mean, I'm a. I'm a complete believer that when you use hard drugs, or maybe just a lot of thc, which is a hard drug, actually, when it's at those dosages, that it's a highway to hell, that it opens you up to dark forces because you lose control of the things that God gave you to control your mind and your heart and to keep bad things out.
Megyn Kelly (34:59)
Can I just add one other thing? The guy who started the psychedelics clinic at Johns Hopkins University and was the godfather of psychedelics, all this, the MDNA and all the stuff that people take, ketamine, he told me in an interview we did that if there's any history of schizophrenia in your family, any. And it can go way back and we don't know. And you go in, even in a controlled setting, which he said is the only way you should ever do one of those drugs. Some people do it for cancer, depression. There are good reasons to try it. You can have a psychotic break from which you never return. Yeah, you never return. It's very dangerous what these people are playing with. And that Lance Twigs, like, I think that one of the reports was that he had mushrooms in there.
