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The Charlie Kirk Show
Why Roe v. Wade's Days Are Numbered with Students for Life President Kristan Hawkins
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This episode is brought to you by our friends who could protect your data and anonymize your activity@expressvpn.com charlie e x p r e s s vpn.com charlie protect yourself against Big Tech and Big Brother. Hey everybody. Today on the Charlie Kirk show, super important episode. Stop what you're doing and listen to every word of this. You are going to love it. But before we get into it, please consider Supporting us at charliekirk.comSupport@charliekirk.comSupport that is your portal to help support us, our team, our researchers, our editors, the travel costs, everything around the production of the Charlie Kirk show. You know, with all the cancellation and all the bad guys coming after people that are trying to tell the truth. When you Support us@charliekirk.com Support you are saying no to cancel culture. You are saying no to the digital assassins. You are saying yes to this program. And if you say to yourself, boy, I want millions of more people to listen to this program. I just wish my kids, my grandkids, my neighbors and more students would hear what this show has to say. That's where it all is made possible. @charliekirk.com Support as always, you can email us your questions. Freedom charliekirk.com Action packed episode, everybody. Thank you for supporting us. Thank you for emailing us. And also get involved with TurningPoint USA@tpusa.com can't forget that. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Look, by now you've all heard me talk about mypillow and how Mike has done it again by introducing his. My slippers. Mike Lindell, he's got a lot of ambition. He's a patriot. He loves his country. A lot of people like Mike Lindell. In fact, I get emails from people, they say, charlie, how can I help you? How can I help Mike Lindell? How can I help the country? Well, if you go to mypillow.com and buy anything with the promo code Kirk, it helps both of us that's right. Maybe you want to go buy the MyPillow slippers. They're beautiful slippers. Maybe you want to buy the MyPillow. MyPillow. MyPIllow slippers are so comfortable that you want to get some for the whole family. So go to mypillow.com and click on the Radio Listener Square and use promo code Kirk. You'll also get deep discounts on MyPillow products, including the Giza Dream bedsheets, the MyPillow mattress toppers and MyPillow towel sets. Or call 800-875-0425 and use promo code Kirk. Hey, everybody. Welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show. With us today is Kristin Hawkins from Students for Life does phenomenal work fighting for pre born human beings and children. Kristin, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.
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B
Thanks for having me.
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A
And so we are both very pro life. You have an organization dedicated just to that. Tell us about it.
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B
Yeah, we started Students for life about 15 years ago. We go to high school, college, med law school, campuses similar to Turning Point and start pro life groups in those campuses to change minds of those most directly targeted by the abortion industry and to help moms on the campus know that she doesn't have to choose between the life of her child and her education.
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A
So why are you pro life?
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B
Because every single abortion ends the beating heart of a unique whole human being that never existed before and will never exist again. That is an act of violence and act of discrimination.
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A
Wow. That's a really good summary.
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B
It's almost like I do this.
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A
Yeah. It's almost like your living is to defend pre born human beings. So I want to get into all the specifics and all that, but let me ask you a question that someone might not have asked you. Are we winning or losing this battle right now?
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B
I actually think by the extremism that you're seeing from Nancy Pelosi and the Biden administration in Washington, D.C. it's actually a pretty good sign that we're winning the culture war here. That despite almost 50 years of legal abortion, of them throwing everything they can throw at this every term that they try to use to, you know, never want to talk about what's inside of a mother, that they're still losing this battle, that this generation, when you poll this question, when you actually ask an honest poll question, you will see that the majority of people, regardless of how they view politics or what they call themselves or what isms or labels they give themselves, they're against abortion. That fundamentally we haven't lost our humanity. And recognizing the humanity of the preborn child. And I think you can see by the extremism and how insane they are. I mean, they want to pack the Supreme Court because of one issue that's exactly. And that's the issue of abortion.
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A
I totally agree. So I had a, I had a dinner recently and with some friends and they called themselves pro choice. It was interesting though, because they all said they knew abortion was wrong, but they didn't want to outlaw it.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So I don't actually, I shouldn't say that there are people that don't think abortion is wrong. We know that. I think that number's decreasing. But what's the argument that you make? That that which is wrong, termination of a life should also be illegal. Because that's the kind of the escape hatch, isn't it? Oh, I don't like abortion, but I'm not going to tell you what to do with your life.
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B
And that's, that's really the safe, pansy answer to say, well, I don't, I don't personally like abortion, but I'm not going to tell you what to do. And that's. Well, then you must not actually believe what happens inside of an abortion facility every single day is violence. Because if you saw the broken bodies of 2,700 human beings every night on the nightly news piled up outside of abortion facilities, you would say, my God, we have to end this. We have to do something here. But because it happens behind the closed doors, we can kind of say, well, that's a theoretical question, that's a philosophical question, and we don't see the reality of what's happening. But what happens every single day is an act of violence. And you have to make abortion illegal and unthinkable. Our goal in the pro life movement is a twofold goal because you can't just change hearts. Cause you're right, some people will still have abortions. And you can directly look at 1973, when Roe and Doe were handed down. The rates of abortion skyrocketed. Making abortion legal made a lot of people think that it was morally okay. Because some people, they shouldn't do this. You know, they get their morals from laws and you really shouldn't do that. If you look through the history of our country, because we've, we've messed up sometimes. But you, you have to make it illegal as well as unthinkable.
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A
And laws should reflect natural law.
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B
Absolutely.
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A
We should be unafraid to say that.
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B
Absolutely.
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A
And it should also every Law is moral, and anyone who convinces you otherwise is wrong. Let me rephrase that. Every law should be rooted in somebody's morality. Let me say it that way. Meaning. And it should be moral. Especially very basic laws. Murder, life imprisonment of another person. So I like your framing. It's an act of violence. Why is that the case?
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B
Why is abortion an act of violence?
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A
Yeah, I agree with you.
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B
I'm just saying. No, definitely, abortion is an act of violence. Because if you think about what happens in an abortion operating room, right, an abortionist walks in and there are two beating hearts. An abortionist will only know success in his or her job if one of those beating hearts stops. If they're in two beating hearts when that abortionist walks out of the room, they have failed in their job.
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A
Their mission statement is.
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B
That's their mission statement.
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A
Less than the amount of beating hearts.
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B
That's exactly right. That is violence. That is a human being that was alive, whole, unique, had a beating heart that wasn't doing anything to anybody else that you've terminated, that you've snuffed out.
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A
So let's go through the timeline. I don't actually know these numbers remotely as well as you do. I know them. Roughly when does the heartbeat begin?
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B
About 21 days after conception, before most women even know that they are pregnant.
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A
So that number is contested by some abortionists. But you're saying that it's just.
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B
Yeah, total.
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A
Some people say six weeks.
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B
They'll see it's semantics.
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A
Can you, can you explain why there's even a disagreement?
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B
There's always disagreement. And now, even now, they'll say, oh, it's not a heartbeat, it's fetal cardiac pole activity.
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A
Walk us through that.
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B
The reason is, is in order to justify the quote, unquote right to abortion, we have to dehumanize what is inside of a preborn, inside of a woman. We'll say, not a child, it's not a baby, it's a fetus, it's a zygote. As if those are alien creatures. I'm like, no, you once a fetus, you once were a zygote. Just like how you may now be an adolescent, right, or your child is a toddler, it's a stage of your life. You didn't come from it, you once were. But we use those terms, and the abortion industry has been using those terms now for almost five decades to try to, you know, really kind of conflate that they actually know heartbeat is actually significant. We've been polling it with 18 to 34 year olds. And when you even ask, you know this, what's quote unquote, the most liberal voting bloc? A lot of people would say in American electorate, when you poll, even you ask young women about the heartbeat and if abortion should be legal, then they'll all say no, like, oh, abortion ends a beating heart. Now the challenge is you have to educate and say, well, did you know that every single abortion ends a beating heart? And then it starts to cause them to question their previous statement. Because that might mean if they say they're against abortion, they might have to start changing some of their behavior. And no one really wants to.
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A
So 21 days, a heartbeat begins. The abortionist will say, that's not the case because it's not a.
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B
Like, they'll say, oh, it's not. The heart isn't. The heart is completely formed around six weeks. So they'll say, well, it's not until the heart is completely formed.
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A
Okay, so that's helpful. I don't believe that, obviously, but I was confronted by this by an abortionist. They're like, you don't know what you're talking about. It's six weeks. I'm not one to retreat, but I was like, I'm going to kind of dive deeper into this. And I looked online and some sites will say, medical sites, it's six weeks. Other ones say 21 days. But it's 21 days.
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B
It starts beating in 21 days. It's fully formed at six.
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A
Got it. And so a heartbeat is definitely an indication of life. But let's go a step before that, which is really what we believe, which is when DNA is created, the point of conception. Why is that when life begins?
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B
Because there's never a moment before or after that a unique, whole living human being has come into existence. There's like, everything after, when egg and sperm unite is just development, is natural development. And it actually becomes a slippery slope, Charlie. Because if you say, well, and often, I'll hear this on campus, somebody will say, well, I don't think life begins until 21 weeks. And somebody else will say, I think life begins at 18 weeks. I'm like, well, well, who's to say?
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A
Honestly, Arbitrary.
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B
Yes, it's absolutely arbitrary. And we know once again, looking at human history, that becomes a very slippery slope when you start deeming when other people's lives or their worth or value begins.
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A
So we have an objective belief in our country of when life ends, but not when life begins.
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B
That's right.
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A
And the significance of that is a million abortions a year how many cints? Roe versus Wade.
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B
It's over 60 million abortions.
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A
60 million abortions.
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B
We actually do not know perfect numbers, Charlie, because we do not have a national abortion report. The abortion industry gets to voluntarily give their numbers to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, who's named after eugenicist, the second president of Planned Parenthood. And that's the best numbers we can get as from the pro abortion industry.
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A
What's amazing about the Guttmacher Institute, when you go to their website, they admit that 98% plus of all abortions are for no reason.
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B
Yeah.
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Now I actually unlike you, I think the only reason should be life of the mother. And we could talk about how rare that actually is because people think it's more frequent than it is. And I've come under a lot of heat for that position, but that's my position. And so. But 98.6% from the Guttmacher's own data.
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B
Yes, absolutely.
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A
Which I don't even believe. It's probably higher than that is I want it cause it's my right or
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B
my boyfriend's pressuring me or whatever.
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A
Because some states don't even require a reason. No, it's no fault of Boris.
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B
Roe versus Wade and Doe versus Bolton said a woman would say anything.
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A
What is Doe versus Bolton?
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B
So when Roe was handed down January 22, 1973, a lot of people do not know this, but Roe only legalized abort the first trimester. The court made up this trimester system the first three months on the same day they handed down the second decision. Dovie Bolton. Dovie Bolton allows abortion in all nine months of pregnancy for whatever reason, using a loose definition of a woman's health. So you can go in and say I have mental anguish that's hurting my health. Therefore abortion can happen up to the moment birth. So people actually do not like. I'll be on NPR and people will argue with me that abortions do not happen in ninth month. And you can go to Albuquerque, New Mexico, the late term abortion capital of the world. You fly across the globe to abort their children at 37 weeks.
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A
So Steve Smotherman's a good friend of mine, he runs a huge church there and he's been fighting against it. He's a great guy. Legacy church. I just spoke there. So you're right. They're doing everything they can. And you actually feel the spiritual pressure when you land in Albuquerque.
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B
Albuquerque is spiritually dark.
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A
It's very dark. Because of that, I actually think it's connected. People think I'm Nuts when I say that, but whatever. So I'm a little confused because I didn't know this. Confused not the right word. So there was a Roe vs. Wade decision, and you said the day after
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B
there was another decision the same day.
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A
Were they two different complaints happening?
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B
Yes, there was two different women, one from Tennessee, one from Texas, and they put them together. So they're called companion cases. So they were handed down the exact same day, the exact same time. So often when you hear polling, people will say, oh, do you support Roe vs. Wade? Roe vs. Wade allowed abortion in the first three months. People say, oh, yeah. But no one knows that Doe v. Bolton, the same day, allows abortion all nine months.
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A
And so that is really at the heart of this issue is Doe versus Bolton. Is the no restrictions at all.
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B
Correct, actually. And what happened in Ohio this week was significant because the 6th Circuit of Appeals just upheld Ohio law that bans abortions if a woman goes into the abortion facility and says, I want to have an abortion because my child was diagnosed with down syndrome. So down syndrome children, 80 to 90% who are diagnosed in utero are killed via abortion. My children have cystic fibrosis. 90% of my children are killed in utero if they're diagnosed with cf. Ohio actually banned abortion, not because of any other reason for women's health, but just said because of the genetic code of the child. Planned Parenthood, the abortion lobby immediately sued, stopped us all. Just this week, the 6th Circuit of Appeals said, this is eugenics and you should not be allowed. This is actually a significant challenge to Roe.
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A
Was it a Trump judge or was it.
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B
They were, I think, George W. Bush judges, of course. I mean, but this was a significant challenge to Roe and Doe. That just happened this week that most people aren't even talking about.
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A
So why, why don't we talk more about Doe vs Bolton? I've never heard of it.
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B
That's like surprising. Like, yeah, I mean, that's sad. Like we need to be talking about more. We always at Students for Life and the Pro Movement, I always try to say Roe and Doe. Roe and Doe. And when you do polling, we actually did some polling this January and I asked people, how do you feel about Roe? You know, majority of young people said they supported Roe. Then I said, oh, did you know Roe and Doe? It's a companion case released on the same day. Allow abortion all nine months. We immediately saw a 35 point shift and won the majority of the opinion of 1835.
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A
Has Doe ever been seriously challenged or
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B
Roe and Doe are challenged? You know, kcb, Planned Parenthood was one of the biggest challenges, as you know. And that was the first time the court said the states have an interest, a compelling interest to list to, to allow some abortions to be restricted, to place some restrictions on abortion. The partial birth abortion case in 2007, Gonzalez v. Planned Parenthood, Gozalsi v. Carhar, actually banned from for the first time a specific type of abortion. And what the court said there was, well, it doesn't infringe on Roe and Doe because you can still kill a baby late term. You know, you just induce a cardiac arrest, induce a heart attack and kill a baby late term. You don't have to crush the skull. So there have been challenges, but fundamentally what the court has continued to say is access always trumps safety and you have to allow women the ability to end the life of their child.
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A
So, but, so Roe versus White says only the first trimester, first three months.
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B
Yes.
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A
And do versus Bolton says all. If you have a medical, if you
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use the definition of health, and that health, health, reason can be physical or emotional.
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A
So do you think that the abortion lobby has intentionally focused on Roe versus Wade more?
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B
Absolutely, yeah. I mean, you see it all the time. Like save Roe. Oh yeah. If you see the AP or Warriors will do a poll on abortion, they'll say, oh, do you support Rose's way it allows abortion the first three months. And they'll never actually, you'll never hear them say Dovie Bolton because they don't want. Americans like to think of abortion as rare and only happening in certain circumstances and very early in pregnancy. No one likes to admit. What we all know is that late term abortions happen and it's certainly not rare and that's certainly not safe. As you know, the FDA did just this week. I mean, I don't know if you saw what the FDA did this week, but they pulled the Johnson Johnson vaccine for the COVID vaccine because a woman, a person died. Other people were facing life threatening complications. It was already made out of abortive fetal stem cells. So the pro life movement didn't even support the Johnson Johnson vaccine. The same exact day the FDA came out and said, we know about 24 women have died from chemical abortion pills, but we're going to let Planned Parenthood continue as they've been doing during COVID using Covid as excuse to give out, dispense the abortion pill via webcam, via the mail, without testing and no test abortion. So you only have to confirm you're pregnant before you have a chemical abortion. If you are pregnant and have an atomic pregnancy. When the child is lodged in the fallopian tube, it can kill a woman. You don't even have to test for that. You only have to test to see if you're RH negative. Meaning if you have an abortion, you're RH negative, your blood type is RH negative, you will never be able to carry another child to term. The FDA doesn't give anything about that. They stopped the Johnson Johnson vaccine because one person died and other people were seriously injured. And then in the same day, they turned around, said, yeah, well, access trump safety.
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A
So let's talk about the incentive structure. The abortion industry is one where a lot of people make a lot of money. Talk about that.
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B
Yeah. I mean, this is an actual industry. Planned parenthood receives over $600 million every single year from U.S. taxes taxpayers. A number of states fund abortion in their state Medicaid. You know, historically, the Hyde Amendment has stopped federal taxpayers from funding abortion. Now, you know, Democrats in Congress have gotten rid of the Hyde Amendment. There's a new bill to force all of us to pay for abortions. But they get money. They get money through. You know, President Trump had the Protect Life rule, which was one of the most significant pro life victories that banned Planned Parenthood for receiving family planning funds and said it's not fair if a woman goes into a family planning clinic, that there's an abortion facility right nearby, and you're basically using these funds to sell your other procedure that you're charging her for. The Biden administration is already saying they're going to expand Title 10 funding for planned Parenthood. It is a predatory business. I mean, if you have children, think about what Planned Parenthood is doing. They are on your child's phone there. They have their app Ru. You can go to Ru. You can ask Ru any question, and then it'll connect you to a medical professional. If you're, you know, any question about sexuality, abortion, pregnancy, lgbtq, transgender, which, by the way, Planned Parents, the second largest distributor of transgender hormone replacement, whatever, the chemical castration, of course, because they make money. That's why they've been, you know, cozing up to the, the. The homosexual lobby for so many years. But Planned Parenthood, they meet your child at school, they teach the sex ed offer to teach sex ed, because they know the earlier they can have your young person, the young person in your
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A
life, get sexually active.
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B
Get sexually active, the more they're going to come to Planned Parenthood for birth control IUDs, which are carcinogenic. ST tests, which, by the way, they only treat 18% of STDs. They diagnose. They always talk about how they treat STDs. Only 18% of STDs they diagnose. Do they actually treat. But their goal is to get her in the door as many times as possible. And then when she becomes pregnant, when the birth control fails, which, you know, birth Control has a 9% annual failure rate, condoms have an 18% annual failure rate, then they know she's going to come back to them. I have a friend who operates several abortion facilities in Dallas. Carol. And Carol has said publicly for years that her goal when she ran her four abortion facilities, she had four or five abortion facilities there in the Dallas metro area, that they wanted four abortions for every woman in Dallas. That was their financial goal. It is a create a customer cycle that they have.
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A
So who are the people that are making the money?
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B
Sure, it's the abortionists. There's the independent doctors who are operating clinics. The Planned Parenthood. I mean, think about Planned Parenthood is supposed to be this health care clinic that every single year nets hundreds of of millions of dollars in profit. And now they turn around and they're one of the biggest lobbying forces in Washington, D.C. and they lead the charge on all of the messaging when it comes to promoting abortion and quote, unquote, abortion rights in our country. It's Planned Parenthood, it's the independent abortionists, and they fund, in turn, the politicians who then go to Washington, D.C. fight for them and fund them with more taxpayer dollars.
- [22:15]
A
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B
I have tolerance for pro choice people. I do not have tolerance for pro choice Christians. I just.
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A
Yeah, I mean, I lose my charity. I went after. What's the guy's name? Lecrae, the rapper.
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B
Oh, don't get me started on that video.
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A
Yeah, I would love to get you started because then you could. He can come attack you. Because he came after me. He said I was, of course, but I. We're in need of getting the next. The next interval. Right. So young people are 55% in favor of pro life currently. Is that about right?
- [24:21]
B
Yeah, it depends on how you ask the question. Who's doing. Doing. The answer.
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A
That's about, I would say, which is great. That's. That's a generational shift. That was not the case 20 years ago.
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B
Right? That's right.
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A
How do we get to 70? How do we get to 80? I guess what you're saying is we need more people to know.
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B
Yeah, we need to continue to raise awareness about the violence, the cruelty that happens within the abortion facility. Women who've been victimized by the abortion industry, they need to continue to talk about their abortions. How abortion never took her out of the poverty that she was living, didn't end the abusive relationship she was living, in fact, only allowed it to go on longer. And so we need women to continue to speak out. Science and technology has actually been incredibly helpful to the pro life movement. The ultrasound, you know, the whole, you know, window to the womb, you cannot deny the humanity of the child. And we've all seen our brothers and sisters and nieces and nephews, sons and daughters, via ultrasound. And you cannot deny that what is inside of that mother is not unique, whole living human being. So we have to continue the education. I think for our generation, the biggest challenge we have in the pro life movement right now is a branding challenge of the label pro life. I actually use the label anti abortion a lot more than I use pro life because a lot of times people are like, I don't know what pro life is, or they have a preconceived notion of what pro life is. I am totally fine saying I'm anti abortion. Sometimes people are like, no, you want to be positive, I don't care. I'm anti smoking, I'm anti sex trafficking, anti slavery. I'm anti slavery. Like, I am totally fine. And the thing is, we have to say the word abortion, Charlie, because it doesn't matter how someone calls themselves pro life or pro choice. Number three top three things people think about when they hear the word abortion are death, killing, sadness, the top of the mind. Everybody, everybody thinks that. And so it's good to say abortion because that makes people uncomfortable. We lose when we let them hide behind freedom of choice and these other euphemisms. But I think we have a branding problem in the movement and I think what we've been doing in the pro life generation and young people across the country of saying, look, we need to do a better job of talking about what resources we have available in a post Roe world. The fact that there are 8,000 fairly qualified health centers, there's more than 3,000 pregnancy resource centers and maternity homes across the country, that we are the ones in the pro life movement advocating for foster care, reform adoption laws in our state capitals. We're the ones doing it. And we have a plan, we have a vision for what America can look like without legal abortion, where no woman ever feels like she has to do this.
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A
Let's talk about that. So some pro life, anti abortion people I know, they say, and this is the criticism, you've heard me say it, and I think you agree with it. We don't do a good job advertising the amount of pro life work. And I mean that not just on the abortion side, but foster care, development, adoption. You go through those numbers again a little bit slower because they're good. You're at 5,000, 4,000. It's great. Of, let's say a woman gets pregnant right now in Dallas, Texas, she thinks planned parenthood is her only option. Is that true?
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B
That is absolutely not true. So we have a lot of resources in the pro life movement. I mean, we are walking the walk and I think that is one of our biggest problems. Problems is we're so focused on getting the job done, not the Marketing, not the marketing. And I always tell our team, like, if people don't know you did it, did you really do it?
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A
Yeah. I mean, and you know, I'm in the movement, but I'm not in the movement.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And I'm like, you guys got to be in front of people more.
- [27:57]
B
Exactly, exactly. If someone gave me a billion dollars to end abortion today, I was saying this earlier, 900 million of it I would put into marketing. It's actually pretty simple because no one actually ever wants abortion. When you're standing in front of a Planned Parenthood on Saturday morning praying or witnessing to women, no one is ever excited to walk into that abortion facility to say, oh, I'm just exercising my reproductive rights or my choice. Everyone is sad because that is the place of no hope. That is the place of last resort. And Planned Parenthood prays off of that.
- [28:27]
A
They think they don't have a choice,
- [28:29]
B
but there is a choice.
- [28:31]
A
Tell us what those are.
- [28:32]
B
So if you think about the pro life movement, Starting in the 80s, the Pro Life movement set up what's called Pregnancy Resource Centers, Pregnancy help centers, crisis pregnancy centers. We have like three, three different acronyms for these, but we have over 3,000 across the country today that are pregnancy resource centers as well as maternity homes. Now these are homes where women can go and live with their children, their other children as well, when they're pregnant. They usually can live in the homes until the child they give birth to is one or two. We also have transitional homes for parents who still aren't up on their feet and need help. And those maternity homes provide job skill training and all, all those resources. But if a woman is pregnant in Dallas today, there are a number of amazing pregnancy centers I know of in Dallas she can walk into. And those women at the center who are volunteer for the most part, all volunteer. They will do everything possible to walk alongside her throughout the crisis of the pregnancy to get her out of the crisis, to walk with her until she delivers. And then after she delivers, if she
- [29:36]
A
wants to put it up for adoption
- [29:38]
B
or whatever, if she wants to place her child with an adoptive family, absolutely, they have the connections to help her, walk her through that, that incredibly brave and self sacrificial choice. But these are centers that do that and they're for free. And you can go to optionline.org, you can text HELPLINE to 313131. It's a national database that Heartbeat International has where you can just put in your zip code and you can find one of these pro Life Pregnancy Resource centers. In fact, Students for Life has a program where I'm not even waiting for the pregnancy centers to advertise their resources. Now I'm putting over a million dollars this year in 19 cities just to go. We're actually using a political database here in Phoenix. We're actually doing it. We're knocking door by door and neighborhoods surrounding abortion facilities, educating people about the terror that's going in the abortion facilities and about the pregnancy centers. And none of the neighbors know the pregnancy centers even exist. The other place you can go to is find a healthcenter.hrsa hrsa.gov find a health center.hrsa.gov so I worked in the government. There's lots of acronyms. And I'm sorry, but there's these things called fqhc, Fireblade Qualified health centers. These are nonprofit, not pro life. These are community health clinics that the government already currently funds. They serve 21 million men, women and children. They provide every single medical service that Planned Parenthood provides, plus way more services. I actually go to an FQHC back in Pittsburgh because I live in a rural neighborhood. They serve rural and urban underserved neighborhoods. And if you go to one of their centers and you need a medical service or a specialist that they don't have, they're actually legally obligated to make sure you get to a medical health center. If every single Planned Parenthood in America would shut down tomorrow, which is one of my objectives, these federally qualified health centers will only have to see two more patients per week.
- [31:32]
A
So those are funded by taxpayers.
- [31:33]
B
We're already funding them. But these are independent.
- [31:36]
A
They don't offer abortions.
- [31:37]
B
They don't offer abortions. They do offer contraception, but do they offer abortifacients? They do offer abortifacient contraception, which we disagree with in the pro life movement. But they're. But they're at least they're not the abortion.
- [31:49]
A
But your Preference would be optionline.org Absolutely,
- [31:52]
B
because these are pro life pregnancy centers. These centers offer ultrasound testing, pregnancy testing, STD testing, sometimes ST treatment if you are pregnant. They all have connections with the local pro life ob gyns who will see you work with you if you don't have insurance. They will. These ladies at the center will do anything.
- [32:10]
A
I knew a pregnancy cry center in Palos Heights, Illinois. They did an amazing job. They have, like, no money. And it's so funny, I wanted to give money to the Phoenix one. I couldn't find one.
- [32:20]
B
Oh, you have amazing ones here in
- [32:22]
A
Phoenix, they don't market themselves. I'm sorry. And I went to three of their websites and I reached out to them, didn't hear back. That's fine. They're doing a lot right.
- [32:29]
B
But I have a call with one. Their executive director is smart.
- [32:31]
A
Connect me. But the pregnancy crisis center, most people don't even know they exist.
- [32:35]
B
I know.
- [32:36]
A
And these are pro life competitors in a good way to Planned Parenthood, where they're whole set up for women that are pregnant and they're like, come to us, we're gonna help you. And most people just so you know, don't even know they exist. They don't know the concept exists.
- [32:49]
B
No, I know. Our own polling that I was mentioning earlier, we polled on pregnancy centers and we said if you had a friend who is in a crisis pregnancy who didn't want to have an abortion, would you know where to send her? Less than 2 out of 10 knew that there was like an alternative. And by the way, if you're pregnant and you go to Planned Parenthood, there's like only one thing they can help you with and that is an abortion. 94 or 96% of pregnant women who walk in planned parents doors get an abortion. I went into Planned Parenthood several times when I was pregnant with my first child. They literally couldn't even offer me prenatal vitamins. They didn't even. I said, oh, what if I decide to keep this fetus? Like what kind of, you know, OB care. Is there an OB in the area? Oh, we don't know. Like they literally had.
- [33:32]
A
Well, we have those videos. They tried to destroy his life of Dadarian. Is he going to jail or what's going on?
- [33:36]
B
David Daleiden.
- [33:38]
A
That shows my memory.
- [33:39]
B
He's not going to jail. Not yet. But yes, they're doing everything possible.
- [33:42]
A
He's a really good guy.
- [33:43]
B
He's amazing.
- [33:44]
A
And so tell our audience about him.
- [33:46]
B
So David Daleyden founded a group, center for Medical Progress. He went undercover for several years in the abortion industry and actually got an abortionist here in Phoenix on the record talking about crushing skulls. But he posed as a person who is setting up a fetal tissue stem cell bank where he was going to buy the children that are aborted. And this is actually something that the abortion industry doesn't want anyone to know. They have a major problem in that they don't know how to dispose of all the bodies that, that they kill. That's why they love chemical abortions because they tell a woman, just go home, sit on the toilet, don't flush. And it's not their problem. They don't have to pay for the disposal of the child. It's very expensive. There was an abortionist in Indiana just a couple years ago, died Cloffler. And his garage was filled with aborted babies. And this is a common thing. So David got Planned Parenthood's chief medical officer on tape negotiating rates. You know, Planned Parenthood is getting paid by the government and by her to kill a child. And then they were turning around negotiating the rate with who they thought was this vendor to sell the broken bodies of children they aborted. And then she was. Deb Nugatola, the head medical director of Planned Parenthood was then like talking about how she would alter the late term abortion procedure to keep the fetus more intact because there were certain pieces of tissue that he needed. And he went around, he went to the National Abortion Federation, which is like the union of the abortionists and got film, films are there. There's a judge in San Francisco. It is the most corrupt case. This is a judge who helped fund and found a Planned Parenthood in San Francisco will not recuse himself in this case.
- [35:24]
A
Didn't Kamala Harris go after him big time?
- [35:25]
B
Absolutely, yeah. Kamala Harris's attorney general raided his one bedroom point, his apartment with like nine agents with guns to take his server, his computer, all of his stuff.
- [35:35]
A
Now the videos are still out there though, somewhere, right?
- [35:38]
B
Yeah, sometimes they get found in parking lots and get put up on YouTube.
- [35:41]
A
Yes, but I, I couldn't find them. The other day I was trying to find them and posted on Facebook.
- [35:45]
B
You have to look. There's ways to find them. A lot of them from CMP had to be taken down. But there's other third party folks sometimes who find them and put them up. Students for Life has put some up
- [35:55]
A
and, but social media companies take them down pretty quick, right?
- [35:58]
B
Absolutely, yeah. I mean this is, this is truth that they don't want to get out. This is the very dirty reality of abortion.
- [36:06]
A
But why is it because he filmed that consent or something? What is the.
- [36:09]
B
Yeah, so the argument against David in California is that the NAFT National Abortion Federation conference and some of the conversations that he had with a Planned Parenthood facility workers, like the one where the abortionist in Pasadena was saying she wanted a Lamborghini. Those were filmed in California, which is a two party consent state.
- [36:30]
A
And so therefore if you publicize it or whatever.
- [36:33]
B
Yeah, but, but, but it's an argument. You think about PETA and other groups, they go.
- [36:37]
A
Expectation of privacy though, is in restaurants. Right. She was sipping like fine wine.
- [36:42]
B
Yes.
- [36:42]
A
This was six years ago. And I remember it vividly. I haven't seen those videos in six years.
- [36:46]
B
Yeah.
- [36:46]
A
And no one knows about it. Not no one. I shouldn't say that. But like, I talk to people. They're like, I don't really know, but you have to see these videos. I couldn't even find them the other day.
- [36:54]
B
It's. They are unbelievable.
- [36:56]
A
They're trying to crush that guy's life.
- [36:58]
B
They absolutely are doing everything possible to attack David.
- [37:01]
A
Yeah. So I want to help him. We can talk about that later. So in closing, I think men are part of the problem big time. They need to take responsibility for their actions. And if you find out you've impregnated a woman, you need to take the leadership role and say that you're going to play an active role.
- [37:17]
B
That's right. I think that majority of women who have abortions, they'll tell the abortion vendor they're having the abortion because they lack partner support.
- [37:25]
A
Yes.
- [37:25]
B
And what we have found, women we, I personally interviewed had abortions, didn't have abortion. There's always the woman who doesn't have the abortion is because she had one person in her life to say, you don't have to do this. I will be there with you.
- [37:38]
A
Yes.
- [37:39]
B
And so you. Anybody can be that one person for someone else.
- [37:43]
A
So your goal is to end abortion.
- [37:45]
B
Absolutely.
- [37:45]
A
It's going to be a big project. I think it can happen quicker than people realize. As Ernest Hemingway said, things happen gradually, then suddenly.
- [37:54]
B
That's right.
- [37:54]
A
Right.
- [37:55]
B
That's how I feel. It's happening.
- [37:57]
A
Resources are helpful. Getting the truth out is helpful. What. What's one thing people can do, listening at home to actually effectuate change?
- [38:04]
B
I think you have to refuse to be silent on this issue. I was speaking with some Canadian pro lifers and they don't have the same freedom of speech in Canada. And it's actually terrifying. Our Students for Life groups are being canceled on these campuses. People, priests, elderly priests in their 80s are being arrested for praying in front of abortion facilities in Toronto. We cannot allow what's happening in Canada. The council culture that's happened there come down here and it's already started. The soft totalitarianism has already started. But we cannot be silent. We have to refuse to be canceled. And that means you have to speak up. Whether it's like you listen to my podcast and get all the facts and then regurgitate it on your Facebook page later, you speak up in your church or your parish. Make your youth group. I mean, I can't tell you if every Christian church in America acted like abortion was actually the violence and murder it really is, we would not have abortion. Majority of women who seek abortions say they've gone to church at least once in the past month. We have to stop it. And I think if you're active in your church, for sure, sure. And I know you've got the whole new faith initiative. I didn't talk to you about that. But if the church just stood up and did something.
- [39:16]
A
Totally agree.
- [39:16]
B
We could end this.
- [39:17]
A
Yes. And many pastors are afraid because they think they're going to lose people. They don't know what they're talking about. And so. No, they don't. And they're cowards. And Pastor Rob McCoy, who's right through there, his church has done a phenomenal job. They have a whole pro life ministry there. And I'd love to connect you with that. And so I totally agree. I think we have to think bigger. And you're doing this. The goal is to end abortion, just like the goal when we founded the Republican Party was to end slavery. And they are moral equivalents. And we shouldn't allow anyone to be like, oh, you can't conform. No. Like you're murdering people.
- [39:46]
B
It's the exact same argument.
- [39:47]
A
It's the same thing. It's the dehumanization argument. And it's now manifested itself because in 1860 and 1760 and 1660, the technology was not what it is today to be able to mechanize the destruction and the death of a million people every single year. But now it's there. And because to your point, it's not front facing, people say it's not a big deal or they support it or they fund it. So I want to commend you for the great work you're doing. You wanted me to talk about one thing, right?
- [40:16]
B
Yes. I want you to tell the pro life. We in the pro life movement, it's very diverse. I work with students all the time who'll say, I'm a liberal, I'm a Democrat, I'm like, okay, great, join us and I'll convert you to becoming Republican later. And it always happens, by the way.
- [40:30]
A
Yeah. Because look, there used to be pro life Democrats, they just don't exist.
- [40:33]
B
Yeah, they don't exist anymore. Okay. But I have heard over and over again this thing of, well, you know, if we really are pro life, we want to take care of the mobs. And then it starts this argument for basically socialism, government, Funded this government, funded that. And that's very, very scary because I'm like, have you ever known a socialist government that doesn't kill, A communist government that has killed millions?
- [40:57]
A
Totally.
- [40:57]
B
Like that is the antithesis of being pro life. So can you tell pro lifers why, why they also must be pro capitalism?
- [41:07]
A
Totally. I'm going to give a broader answer then I'll get specifically to that. I get this question all the time. So they say, charlie, I agree with you on the abortion thing, but how could you also be pro life and want stricter immigration or want more police? And I say, okay, every position I have is a pro life position. Every single one. It's about the welfare of the human being. Every single position. So I want stricter immigration because it's happening on the southern border when women are getting raped, when they cross the southern border, when they give birth control to 12 year olds because they're likely to be kidnapped by cartel members. No, that's why I want stricter immigration. I also care about the welfare of my fellow countrymen. I want more police on the streets of Chicago because that means more people are going to live and not get shot on the way to school. I want school choice because I know that's going to result in a better life for human beings. Every position I have is a pro life position, including my position on markets. So markets have been the best way to improve human flourishing and well being. Now with that being said, I do not believe in markets the way I believe in my religion. I don't. I believe in common sense regulation. I believe in a check and balance. I am by no means purely laissez faire. In fact, I've become far less in that way in the last couple years, especially with some of the corporate tyranny we're living under. And I think that's something that we just all have to admit that's happening. With that being said though, entrepreneurs, small business owners, people taking risks, private property is a moral need for a nation. Why? Founding fathers understood this life, liberty and private property, not pursuit of happiness. It was originally life, liberty, private property as John Locke wrote it. It's because in the Bible talks about this very clearly. Your capacity to be able to own something is an extension of your consciousness, an extension of who you are. To be able to accumulate wealth, to be able to provide for your family. These are moral goods and needs. It says in the scriptures very clearly, a man does not work, he does not eat. And this is the best way to abolish poverty. It's the best way to lift people up from their current socioeconomic circumstances and my belief system very clearly is that a socialist, communist, a collectivist viewpoint, which is now happening very quickly, is directly tied together to the dehumanization movement of abortion. I love human beings so much. I believe that they're better than getting a government check. I love human beings so much, I believe that they are able to break out of the poverty that they're in. Only markets can do that, or at least the freedom that markets provide. And I refuse to indulge in this argument. They're like, oh, they're always going to be poor, then why not abort them? That's the argument that people make. So they're tied together. It's the bigotry of low expectations. It's like, oh, I don't think that that person in Philadelphia can achieve the success, therefore they need all of these government programs. Don't get me wrong, I think that there should be assistance. I just want it to be a safety net, not a hammock. And I believe that we have a whole culture of government dependency. But in your view, and this is for your listeners to think about, if deep down they're thinking themselves, I don't think they can make it. I don't think. I think that. I think so lowly of that person in New York City that they, I must provide them a government subsidized check that leads to abortion before you could ever believe. Because what you're really saying is that I don't actually think they can break out of their current circumstances. What you and I believe is actually the highest fulfillment and the flourishing of human beings. And that's a holistic pro life stance.
- [44:42]
B
That's absolutely right. I mean, it's kind of what we hear a lot in, on campuses of. Well, we should just eliminate the sufferer, not the suffering.
- [44:49]
A
Yes.
- [44:50]
B
Capitalism can eliminate the suffering. It can generate wealth.
- [44:54]
A
Yes. And opportunity and improvement of goods and services. And you got to another point here, which is first, freedoms of not just markets, not just private property, but speech. God bless our founding Fathers. I mean, students for life would be criminalized in Canada.
- [45:08]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
- [45:09]
A
This idea of we are the speaking beings, Aristotle said that means that our capacity to think, our passive reason is rooted in our capacity to speak. And that's a moral good. You're only going to get rid of abortion if you can speak. It's not going to happen if you can't convince people. Right. And Isaiah says. Isaiah 1, we are going to reason together. Well, guess what? More science more ultrasounds, the WTTW you said, which is the window to the womb. I love that. I'm going to totally use that. That's how we're going to get rid of abortion. And so I love markets because I love human beings. I love freedom because I care about the moral good of every human being that's right now in the womb. That's getting crushed. No. The only way for them to be able to live a full life as Christ commanded us, is if the government protects the freedoms that God grants them.
- [45:53]
B
It's perfect. There you go. That's the quote.
- [45:55]
A
There you go. Well, Kristen, you're doing great work.
- [45:58]
B
Well, thanks for everything you all are doing. We see Turning Point all the time on campuses. I was on campus the other day with the Turning Point.
- [46:04]
A
We're getting more and more in the life issue. You know, that's good. And I speak about it a lot. We're gonna end this thing together. That's your daily miss Focus more broadly.
- [46:12]
B
But we won't work with you.
- [46:13]
A
I'm unafraid to talk about it. You know that.
- [46:15]
B
Thank you, Kristen. Thank you.
- [46:19]
A
Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us your questions. Freedom charliekirk.com God bless you guys. Speak to you soon. For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.