The Charlie Kirk Show

Episode: Will Minnesota’s Turning Point Ever Come?

Date: December 30, 2025
Host: Charlie Kirk
Guests: Scott Johnson (Powerline Blog), Harmeet Dhillon (Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Division, DOJ), and contributors

Episode Overview

This episode digs deep into the ongoing scandal around large-scale public program fraud centered in Minnesota, specifically involving the Somali community and programs like daycare and Medicaid. Charlie and his guests evaluate law enforcement and prosecutorial responses, the political impact on Minnesota's trajectory, and the state’s shifting demographics. The episode also addresses conservative frustrations over the pace of accountability and explores national implications for elections and voter rolls.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Minnesota “Somali Fraud” Scandal: Background and Status

[01:09 – 06:50]

• Scott Johnson (Powerline Blog) lays out the history:

  • Fraud schemes under investigation have been ongoing for at least four years, particularly focusing on Medicaid and daycare programs.
  • The most publicized case, “Feeding Our Future,” began in 2021 and led to at least 50 convictions, with some 28 additional prosecutions expected soon.
  • Johnson underscores that the media surge is thanks to viral content like Nick Shirley’s investigative video but clarifies, "These matters are under investigation by the FBI and are being prosecuted..." ([05:40])
  • Notable quote:
    • "Minnesota is drowning in fraud. The volume of fraud is beyond the capacity of [the U.S. Attorney’s] office to remedy by prosecution alone." – Scott Johnson, paraphrased from his blog ([06:50])

• Law enforcement stretched thin:

  • Only five to six prosecutors working on these cases at the U.S. Attorney’s Office, limiting the speed of prosecutions.

The Scope and Evolution of the Fraud

[07:47 – 09:00]

• The original investigation (“Feeding Our Future”) revealed $300 million in fraud with indictments growing from 47 to over 70 as authorities followed the money through various public programs.
• The fraud became a multiplying phenomenon as overlapping “cast of characters” surfaced in new cases:
  • “The defendants... are basically a white woman who set up this Feeding Our Future nonprofit and recruited a Somali cast of characters to run these fraudulent program[s] around the state.” – Scott Johnson ([08:19])

Political Implications: Why Isn’t Minnesota Turning Red?

[09:00 – 10:18]

• Johnson attributes the state’s stubborn Democratic dominance to massive margins in Hennepin County (Minneapolis), driven in part by the Somali community’s voting bloc.
• Rural Minnesota is reliably Republican, but the urban vote outweighs it:
  • "If it doesn't happen in 2026, we've really got a problem." – Scott Johnson ([09:54])

[11:27 – 15:00]

• Discussion of the demographic shift and size of the Somali voting bloc; estimates range from 80,000 to 200,000.

• Trump’s margin of defeat in 2024 was 138,000 votes, paralleling estimates of the Somali bloc’s size ([15:00]).

• On Democratic defenses:

  • Governor Tim Walz and others label critics ‘white supremacists’ to delegitimize investigation.
    • "Governor Tim Walz is saying... you’re doing it because you’re white supremacists. What is your response to him?" – [12:03]
    • Response: Votes are the motivation, not racism ([12:13]).

National and Broader Trends

[16:12 – 20:44]

• Fraud schemes are spreading to other states with large Somali populations (Ohio, Washington).

• The fraud connects to earlier issues, including terrorism trials involving Somali Minnesotans attempting to join ISIS in 2016.

• Memorable moment: Johnson recalls how even educated assimilated individuals exploited systems:

  • "One of the defendants pulled out $500 on a debit card from his student loan to finance his trip to Turkey to try to get to ISIS." ([17:40])

• Ongoing suspicions that some program money is sent abroad, possibly linked to extremism—though not substantiated.

Accountability and the Role of Public Officials

[20:11 – 21:53]

• Johnson points out both Governor Tim Walz and Attorney General Keith Ellison have avoided substantive interviews on their knowledge or complicity in the fraud.
  • "It's unbelievable. You know, these guys have specialized in either looking the other way or facilitating." ([21:48])

Department of Justice Efforts & Conservative Base Frustrations

[24:25 – 27:53]

• Harmeet Dhillon addresses online right-wing frustrations about lack of high-profile arrests in the fraud cases and clarifies misconceptions about statutes of limitations.

  • Many convictions and ongoing investigations exist—just not at the speed the base desires.
  • “We have actually indicted 99 people so far. And we're just getting started. In the Minnesota Somali fraud rings, so far, there are over 60 convictions...” – Harmeet Dhillon ([27:53])
  • Emphasizes importance of building airtight cases, especially against public officials.

• Discusses challenge of prosecuting sitting officials due to legal hurdles and political control over prosecutor appointments in blue states ([32:00 – 35:47]).

Election Integrity and Future Directions

[37:25 – 42:08]

• Harmeet Dhillon describes work to force states to clean up their voter rolls; 23 lawsuits, voluntary compliance from 13 states.
  • "We are hiring very aggressively. So if anybody... is a lawyer who wants to help clean up our voter rolls... we're looking to hire people on that." ([38:20])
• Minnesota’s lax voter verification procedures cited as ripe for abuse:
  • “You can bring your eight Somali buds in and say, I vouch for the person’s address. That's all you need. You don’t need a utility bill. You don’t need anything but some potential fraudsters vouching. That’s insane.” – Harmeet Dhillon ([41:29])
• Acknowledgment of a significant rightward shift in conservative rhetoric and policy focus since 2015 ([40:16 – 41:29]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Scott Johnson:

  • “Minnesota is drowning in fraud... The volume of fraud is beyond the capacity of [the U.S. Attorney’s] office to remedy by prosecution alone.” ([06:50])
  • "If it doesn't happen in 2026, we've really got a problem." ([09:54])
  • “It's unbelievable. You know, these guys have specialized in either looking the other way or facilitating.” ([21:53])
  • "One of the defendants pulled out $500 on a debit card from his student loan to finance his trip to Turkey to try to get to ISIS." ([17:40])

• Harmeet Dhillon:

  • "We have actually indicted 99 people so far. And we're just getting started. In the Minnesota Somali fraud rings, so far, there are over 60 convictions..." ([27:53])
  • “If you cracked open a browser and did a little bit of research, you would find that there have been many arrests, many convictions, many indictments and ongoing investigations here.” ([29:55])
  • “You can bring your eight Somali buds in and say, I vouch for the person’s address. That's all you need... That’s insane. You can’t run a country like that.” ([41:29])

• On political rhetoric:

  • "Now Tom Emmer is on Fox, basically calling for prosecutions and accountability...the tone and tenor of the entire conservative movement...we are light years ahead of where we were a decade ago." ([40:09])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:09] – Start of in-depth Minnesota fraud discussion with Scott Johnson
• [05:40] – FBI/DOJ investigations, under-resourced offices
• [09:00] – Why doesn’t Minnesota turn red?
• [12:13] – The “white supremacist” label debate and Democratic responses
• [15:00] – Somali voting block and election results math
• [17:40] – ISIS trial anecdote: student loans used for terror financing
• [20:44] – Accountability: What did state officials know and when?
• [24:25] – Harmeet Dhillon on conservative online misinformation and DOJ progress
• [27:53] – Convictions, investigations, and the case for patience
• [32:00] – What it takes to indict a sitting governor; blue state obstacles
• [37:25] – DOJ efforts on election integrity and voter roll lawsuits
• [41:29] – Minnesota’s vulnerability to voter fraud; “voucher” system critique

Conclusion

The episode paints a detailed portrait of systemic public program fraud in Minnesota, and the slow grind of justice in the face of limited prosecutorial resources and complex political realities. While conservative activists and listeners express frustration with the pace of accountability, guests clarify that substantial progress is actually being made, but that building prosecutable cases—particularly against powerful officials—requires rigor and time. The conversation is a call for encouraging activist patience, ongoing grassroots work, and greater energy toward election integrity reforms.