Ep 93: The Prompt Master- A ChatGPT Conversation With Keven Ellison

Summary

Episode Summary:

Podcast: The ChatGPT Experiment – Simplifying ChatGPT For Curious Beginners
Episode: 93: The Prompt Master – A ChatGPT Conversation With Keven Ellison
Host: Kerry Weston
Guest: Keven Ellison, VP of Marketing at AIs
Date: December 2, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this engaging and practical conversation, host Kerry Weston interviews Keven Ellison, a self-proclaimed “AI Ambassador” and deeply curious AI enthusiast. The episode dives into Ellison’s creation of Prompt Master—a tool designed to help users go beyond basic ChatGPT prompts to create “super prompts” that deliver significantly better results. Together, they discuss best practices for communicating with language models, compare the major AI chatbots, and provide actionable advice and frameworks for beginners and more advanced users alike. The tone remains encouraging, demystifying, and focused on empowering listeners to harness AI with greater confidence—no tech background required.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Keven Ellison’s Background & Motivation

[04:05–06:13]

• Keven explains his 30+ years in tech marketing, evolving from office equipment to the cutting edge of applied AI.
• On why he dove into AI, despite being late-career:

  “When they told me that AI was going to be bigger than the Internet, I just went, oh, I have to jump on board on this.” (Keven Ellison, 06:15)

• He sees his role as both an internal advocate—filtering updates and insights for his busy team—and an external resource.

2. The Prompt Gap: Why Most People Don’t Get Great Results

[09:15–12:23]

• Keven observed that 95-99% of people “don’t know how to prompt—not their fault.”
• Common mistake: Treating ChatGPT like Google search; instead, context and specificity matter.
• AI will always deliver something, even if your question isn’t clear, sometimes “hallucinating” or making stuff up.

  “It wants to please us... so it does. It’ll make stuff up if we don’t put…guardrails.” (Keven Ellison, 11:29)

• The need for better prompting led Keven to design a scalable solution—Prompt Master.

3. What is Prompt Master & How Does it Work?

[12:51–15:07]

• Prompt Master is an AI tool that ‘interviews’ the user, asking clarifying questions to establish purpose, context, desired outcomes, and any needed resources for the prompt.
• It generates robust, context-aware prompts for ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude, and other major chatbots, recognizing each has different ‘prompting languages.’
• Also serves as an educational tool, revealing to users how much richer their inputs can be.

4. Uncovering the ‘Super Prompt’ & Prompt Engineering Breakthroughs

[17:36–21:35]

• Many viral “prompts”—short and simple—yield surface-level results. The Prompt Master approach builds extended “super prompts” by extracting more detail from users.
• Keven describes using ChatGPT to turn collections of popular prompts into a synthesized, multi-paragraph “super prompt”—a term GPT itself supplied:

  “It says, ‘Hey, you want to build a super prompt?’... it goes and builds a three or four page and it has all the questions of what specific things I need.” (Keven Ellison, 20:41)

• Kerry’s framework aligns: What are you doing? Why? What does success look like? Any questions for clarification?

Keven’s Enhanced Prompting Formula

[21:37–24:56]

1. Assign a role: e.g., “Expert business writer in the top 0.1%.”
2. Give context: Background, specifics, and relevant resources.
3. Define success: Output format, tone, examples.
4. Encourage clarifying questions:

   “Ask me any clarifying questions to ensure you complete this task with 100% accuracy.” (Keven Ellison, 24:26)

• Notable moment: The more consequence or urgency you give (“my job’s on the line!”), the more empathetic and thorough GPT gets (Kerry Weston, 25:55).

5. AI Model Landscape: When to Use Which Tool

[26:00–35:23]

• People experience overwhelm with so many AIs (ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, Grok, DeepSeek, Kimmy, etc). Keven’s advice: Pick a lane, get the basics right.
• ChatGPT:
  • “Best all around product.” (27:11)
  • Versions 4o and 5.1 Pro are highlighted.
• Claude (Anthropic):
  • Especially strong at making writing “more human”—solid for article and blog rewrites.
  • Example: Used Claude to mimic and improve an employee’s style so convincingly that she “was all in” on AI. (30:40)
• Gemini (Google):
  • Noted for its image creation (Nano Banana) and Notebook LM tool for infographics and data visualization.
  • “You don’t have to do this in Photoshop anymore.” (32:56)
• DeepSeek (China), Grok (Musk):
  • Other major players, each evolving rapidly.
• Key takeaway: Tools update weekly; learn foundational prompting, as most tools are just new “front ends” on similar tech.

6. Prompt Master’s Role: Translator for the AI Age

[37:41–37:56]

• Not about picking “the best” tool, but optimizing your approach for each model.

  “Think of it as a translator…helping you interact with these AI tools in order for you to get your thoughts out to them, in order to get a great result back.” (Keven Ellison, 37:41)

7. Mindset, Curiosity, and Next Steps

[38:11–39:05]

• Keven is active on LinkedIn (username: Keven Ellison, “with two e’s!”) and shares regular updates and tool links.
• Reiterates curiosity as the core value:

  “I love talking about this. I just have a passion for it, and I think that’s what everyone should be because this is our future.” (38:44)

• Kerry’s parting words: “You can’t go wrong being curious. You can’t break it. You can only learn either to do it differently, better, or keep doing what you want.” (38:46)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On being motivated by massive change:
  “When they told me that AI was going to be bigger than the Internet, I just went, oh, I have to jump on board on this.” (Keven Ellison, 06:15)

• On the illusion of “good enough” from AI:
  “People…get a response and they don’t know how good their response could be.” (Kerry Weston, 15:14)

• On the Prompt Master’s value:
  “I needed to create a tool that would interview me or the person using it, and create a prompt so you can use it in two ways...you can actually learn from it on how much detail you need to put into it.” (Keven Ellison, 13:01–14:07)

• On “unconscious incompetence” with AI:
  “We call that unconsciously incompetent…You don’t know.” (Keven Ellison, 15:33–15:40)

• On prompt engineering:
  “The last thing is…I ask it, ask me any clarifying questions to ensure you complete this task with 100% accuracy.” (Keven Ellison, 24:23)

• On the power of context and consequence:
  “When I actually put those consequences on the line, the questions get better.” (Kerry Weston, 25:55)

• Advice for AI beginners:
  “Learn how to prompt first…you don’t need all these other tools. All they’re doing is putting front ends on ChatGPT or on Grok or on Google Gemini.” (Keven Ellison, 37:00)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Keven’s background & AI journey: [04:05–06:13]
• Prompting mistakes & need for Prompt Master: [09:15–12:23]
• Prompt Master explained: [12:51–15:07]
• Prompt frameworks and “super prompts”: [20:05–24:56]
• Model-by-model Chatbot guidance: [27:05–35:23]
• Keven’s LinkedIn & mindset tips: [38:11–39:05]

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Resources & Next Steps

• Prompt Master & Image Architect links (as discussed): Will be included in show notes
• Connect with Keven Ellison: LinkedIn – Keven Ellison
• Host’s site for podcast archives & beginner guides: chatgptexperiment.com

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Final Takeaway

Whether you’re a curious beginner or looking to deepen your AI skills, this episode offers practical frameworks, real-world examples, and timeless advice: get specific, be curious, and don’t be afraid to experiment. The real secret is not in memorizing “magic prompts,” but in learning how to communicate with AI—and use tools like Prompt Master—to unlock the true potential of these game-changing technologies.

Transcript

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[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Oh hey.

[Kevin Ellison]

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[Kevin Ellison]

Wow.

[Podcast Host (Kerry Weston)]

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[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

I'm the worst. I only got my mom a robe.

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[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

So I have to trade in my old phone, right?

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

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[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Incredible.

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[Kevin Ellison]

Forget that.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Aunt Liz will be jealous.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Sounds like my family drama.

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To T mobile. The holidays are better. AT T Mobile get four iPhone 17s on us. No trade in needed when you switch plus four lines for just 25 bucks a line. And now T mobile is available in U S cellular stores with 24 month legal credits and 4 eligible board inside essentials for well qualified customers. Auto pay + taxes, fees and 35 device connection charge credits and imbalance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Contact Us Finance Agreement 256 gigabytes 830 required Visit T mobile.com hey, it's Carrie.

[Kevin Ellison]

Hey.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

This week's show I have a guest. I'm going to share with you a.

[Podcast Host (Kerry Weston)]

Conversation that has some amazing value.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

You're going to learn about a tool.

[Podcast Host (Kerry Weston)]

Called Prompt Master that this guest has created which allows people to take their.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Questions, their prompts or inputs into tools.

[Podcast Host (Kerry Weston)]

Like ChatGPT and magnify them to create super prompts to get amazing outputs. You're going to learn the differences between doing that with ChatGPT and Claude and Gemini, as well as how to do that with images.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

He's got two things to share with.

[Podcast Host (Kerry Weston)]

You and I'm super excited. It's an amazing resource that I hope you stick around to listen to, grab and use.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

And if that sounds like something you want to learn more about, then stay.

[Podcast Host (Kerry Weston)]

With me and I'll see you on.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

The other side of the music.

[Kevin Ellison]

Hey gang.

[Podcast Host (Kerry Weston)]

Welcome to the ChatGPT experiment. This is the podcast designed to help you better understand what ChatGPT is and how to use it so you can get a nugget of value for your personal or professional needs? My name is Kerry Weston and I'm your host. I'm glad you're here.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Hey, right out of the gate.

[Podcast Host (Kerry Weston)]

The website for the podcast, chatgpt experiment.com. you'll find the episode archive there. There's some articles, some free guides for beginners. There's also some training options for workshops.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

And businesses and individuals. You can see all the details that you need and some videos that go over what those are.

[Podcast Host (Kerry Weston)]

And you can reach out and get.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

A hold of me as well, so.

[Podcast Host (Kerry Weston)]

You can ask questions, share stories, and if you've got something you want to share on the show, reach out. I'd love to hear about it. Maybe we'll get you on. Today's conversation is with Kevin Ellison. Now, Kevin is vice president of marketing.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

For a company called AIs.

[Podcast Host (Kerry Weston)]

But more importantly to you and me, Kevin is super passionate about AI and he is a extremely curious individual. And you're going to hear me say that every time I'm around him and every time I'm in the room with him and I hear him talk about what he's doing and sharing his excitement, I can almost literally hear his head spinning.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

He's always thinking about solving problems, doing.

[Podcast Host (Kerry Weston)]

More, and taking what's coming out from AI and turning it around to help.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Others do good with it.

[Podcast Host (Kerry Weston)]

So that's why I'm super excited to.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Share this conversation with you.

[Podcast Host (Kerry Weston)]

And it's a good one. So, just like Kevin, remember your curiosity.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Is what's going to drive you to get more out of this tool.

[Podcast Host (Kerry Weston)]

So without further ado, I'm going to share Kevin's curiosity in the conversation he and I had recently. Okay, enjoy it and we'll talk soon.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Bye.

[Kevin Ellison]

Bye.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

So, hey, Kevin, welcome to the show, my friend.

[Kevin Ellison]

Hey, thanks a lot. Thanks for having me.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

So I always want to start, I want people to understand who we're talking to, what we're talking about. So could you give folks a little bit about who you are, what you do, and maybe who you do it for?

[Kevin Ellison]

Sure, sure. I'm Kevin Ellison. I'm the vice president of marketing at AIs. I've been marketing technology companies probably for over. Over 30 years. And I am not only the vice president of marketing of a technology company that offers everything from IT services to telecom to security cameras and access control, and we're now offering apps and AI as well as, oh, we often we Started our business. Our roots were office equipment, so copiers and printers. That was 23 years ago. And I've been with us for about eight years. And I'm also taking on the role of AI ambassador because I think it's really important for us to really immerse ourselves and really immerse our businesses into using AI effectively in the work we do.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Yeah. And you guys, you and I have been in the same room. We've had conversations over the past few years. You know, we've interacted. And every time I have a conversation with you or every time I see you talk about AI or tools like chat, GPT and whatnot, I always, I can almost hear your wheels grinding because you are always kind of ideating. I can also, I can always see you getting real into this and getting real excited. In fact, the last time you and I were in the room together, you show, you pull up your laptop and you showed me your agent map. Whereas if the agents were running my company, here's all of the things, right? Here's the robots taking over the world. And so I know you've been in this for a bit. I mean, you are, you are in this. You're excited about it. How did you get, like, what was your first taste of, hey, this is something I really need to pay attention to.

[Kevin Ellison]

That's a great question, a great story. So I'm 63 years old, okay. So I should be on my way out of my career. And when they told me that AI was going to be bigger than the Internet, I jumped in with two feet right away.

And the reason for that is because when I started in business, I didn't.

Have a cell phone or the Internet. Okay? Those were two amazing, innovative tools for us to do business with.

And when they told me something's going.

To be bigger than the Internet, I just went, oh, I have to jump on board on this. I have to dive in. So about two and a half or three years ago, when ChatGPT came out, I immersed myself and I constantly. I wake up in the morning at between 4 and 5am and I'm immediately online to see what the experts that I follow of what, what updates have happened in the last 24 hours. Because this is moving so fast and it's so hard and so overwhelming for all of us to get. And I dive into it because what I have to do is my team, my marketing team at AIs, they are so busy focused on the business is that they don't have time to go out and do the research on AI So what I do is try to grab those tidbits and then I drop those into our Microsoft Teams, into our like a Slack program so that everybody can be up to speed on what's going on.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Yeah. And listen, you didn't have, I know you didn't because you have a similar story than I do, as I do. It's basically been three years exactly to the day that when ChatGPT dropped in November of 22. And I remember being, it was in March of that, March or February of that following three months later I was in a conference room where somebody in my agency, my background, I sold it last year. But I had a, I had a marketing agency for 25 years and you know, almost 20 employees. And a lot of the stuff we did was creating content and thinking on behalf of companies and you know, that kind of stuff. And I know how long it takes to think about someone else's business and write about someone else's business and create articles and create social media and make it be relevant and focused, you know, and I had a big, there was a big screen presentation and somebody brought up this thing I'd never seen before, which is chatgpt, and gave it some simple prompts. And all of a sudden I saw a month worth of social media prompts in front of my eyes in 30 seconds. You know, and I've shared this before, but you remember the old Bugs Bunny, you know, the Aruga, you know, the wheels start going and the horns start blaring in my head. It's like if I don't touch this, I'm going to be missing out. And so I, I remember that very day, I remember the Wyoming conference room. We were in Jackson Hole. I remember the color and smell of the room. I just that happening and much like you, I just said if I don't touch this, I'm going to be behind. So one of the things that I'm really excited, Kevin, about having you here is that people listening here, the audience tends to be curious about what do I need to pay attention to and why does it matter and how do I make it work for me rather than being AI experts. Because there's people like you in the world that are absorbing it all, filtering it and then giving it out in bite sized nuggets so people can pay attention to it. Which is why I'm thrilled you're here. One of the things I've seen you create and I'm sure you've done it for internal teams, but I now see that you're sharing it with the world is you've got kind of a prompt master. You've actually dug into ChatGPT. I believe it's ChatGPT and you've got a prompt master. I'm not going to steal the lead here, but can you explain what that prompt master is and maybe the origins of it?

[Kevin Ellison]

I found that our team inside our company at Aisle didn't really understand how to learn or how to use and how to prompt. Right? And when I say that is that I talk to probably many people all the time and I'd say probably 95 to 99% of the people out there.

Don'T know how to prompt and it's not their fault.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

So let's put. Let's pause. Yeah, let's pause right there. Just so we can get on the same page, expectation wise. When you say prompt, there are a lot of people that think that we have to be computer programmers and have this exact science.

[Kevin Ellison]

Right?

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

So when you say prompt, what are.

[Kevin Ellison]

You talking about when you ask ChatGPT a question? Okay, just like we all originally use Google search, right? That's how most people were using AI. And ChatGPT in the beginning was they were just doing it like a Google search. But that's not how we should be interacting with these AI tools. Okay. Whether it's ChatGPT or we have Gemini, which is Google's product, or we have Anthropic's product, which is Claude, or even we have Elon Musk's product, which is Grok, right? There's so many of them, there's probably, I don't know, 25 to 50 of them out there. But, but let's just talk about ChatGPT to start with, right? And when I say prompt, I mean.

How do you ask that specific question.

Or provide enough context in order to.

Get the result that you want? And when I say that 95 or 99% of the people out there do.

Not know how to prompt correctly, I'm.

Just saying they don't know how to ask the right question and provide the right amount of context in order to get that great result. And it's not their fault because whatever you put into it, you get a result out of it. For example, I was talking to one.

Of our senior salespeople the other day and he was doing some research with ChatGPT and he was going out on.

A company and he did some research on a business.

And I said, hey, that's really interesting. He goes, I can't believe it provided me this and this and this and I said, well, did you have a check its facts? Because AI hallucinates. And when I say hallucinate, I mean.

It makes stuff up. And it goes back to that question you have about prompting is because we put something in and if it. It wants to please us, okay. It wants to give us a result. And so it does. It'll make stuff up if we don't.

Put the sort of the.

The guidelines, what they call guardrails, the guidelines on the sides of it to say. I want you to be very specific. I want you to not BS me. I want you to give me right answers. I want you to verify your work.

I want you to source your work.

And then I want you to check your work before you come back to me again. But that's the type of things that you are level of detail. You need to put in a prompt. Now you could put in a prick.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

I'm guessing so. Guess. I'm guessing so. No mean to interrupt you. So I'm guessing you've probably said that 100 times.

[Kevin Ellison]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

In some versions. You've explained it to employees and partners and customers alike over and over.

[Kevin Ellison]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Right?

[Kevin Ellison]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Which led you to say, because I know we're both fans of Marcus Sherrod and if we talk about it once, we should have it in a scalable way where people can access it themselves. Is that where the idea came from that, listen, if I'm going to be explaining this and exploring this, people need help, I should probably build something that would allow this message to be scalable. Is that where this idea came from?

[Kevin Ellison]

Absolutely. That's exactly where it started. So I'm a big proponent of using AI to solve business problems. And this business problem was people.

Since they get a response and they.

Don'T know how good their response could be. I needed to create a tool that.

Would interview me or interview the person.

Using it, the user, and say, okay, I would like to write a article or I would like to do some research. And when you put that into this tool that I created called Prompt Master.

And I've made revisions to it since.

Then because I put it out, I think about a year and a half or two years ago, remember?

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Yeah.

[Kevin Ellison]

So what happens is it starts interviewing you. It'll ask you all those questions that it needs in order to provide a proper. And create a prompt so you can use it in two ways. You can either use it so that you can put your task in and it's going to go then into ChatGPT and then it'll answer that question for you after it's interviewed you, or you can use it to watch how it creates a prompt so you can actually learn from it on how much detail you need to put into it.

Okay.

Because. Yeah. And then I've taken that even a step further is because.

And this is probably a little technical.

But each of the different types of.

What we call chat bots, Chat CBT is one of them. And I said Grok, and I said.

Gemini, and I said Deep Seq.

There's a ton of them. Right.

So I took the five major ones.

That are out there, and I've learned that it's different.

You have to speak in a different language. You have to prompt a little differently for each one of them.

And so what I did was I.

Created that and put that within Prop Master in order for it to not only extract the information and interview you in order to create the prompt for Prompt Chat Chat. Or it'll create the prompt. You tell it, I want it for Gemini or I want it for Grok.

Or I want it for Claude.

And what it does is it recreates.

The prompt for those other platforms.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Okay. You're opening a door here that I get. There's so much that. Sorry. Now my mind. My mind's spinning because you got so much good here. I want to back up because what I heard you say is remarkably important. There are a lot of folks that get answers.

[Kevin Ellison]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

And they're satisfied with the answer, but they don't know how good the answer they can be. They don't know if it's the right use of the tool because they're. No matter what you say, you get something back.

[Kevin Ellison]

Yeah. We call that.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

There's a lot of people using the tool.

[Kevin Ellison]

I was gonna say, we call that unconsciously incompetent.

Okay.

Because.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Yeah.

[Kevin Ellison]

You don't know.

Yeah, yeah, you're getting it back. Go ahead. Sorry.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Yeah, yeah, no, it's. That's. So that's important because this audience, a lot of the folks here that I hear from, they feel comfortable in some routines that they have, but they don't really know what else it can do or what else they should be doing. And so I love when you say it's not their fault because it's going to give you an answer, it's going to give you an output, it's going to give you something no matter how good or poor the input is. So I think I want everyone to hear what Kevin just said is the.

[Podcast Host (Kerry Weston)]

Fact that you're getting something bad back.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Doesn'T mean that you're using it to its full advantage or that you are getting the most out of it. And it's not your fault because it's actually programmed not to say no, not to say I don't know and not to be helpful. It's just the opposite. And so what your prompt master is doing is taking that one on one coaching, that one on one advice that's born from your own experience. And what I tell people is there are no experts really. They're just people that made a lot more mistakes than you.

[Kevin Ellison]

Yeah, right, exactly.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

And that's what's happening with this. Because it's the minute you get comfortable, the world changes and then you got to learn it all over again.

[Kevin Ellison]

Yep.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

So the first thing, I love that. So you are creating this tool to help people not only create meaningful prompts and get in depth questions that they can feed it, but you're also, it's also teaching people how they can do it themselves, which is great. And now the other door you opened, and I'm going to go in door number one first, but the second door you opened was it's also thinking about all the other models that you fed it and it's giving them advice on all those little models. So door number one, when you are teaching and sharing with people about prompting and about the interaction, what do you find gets the biggest? Aha. The biggest. Oh, or the biggest. I didn't know it could do that. That's awesome. Is there something specific that resonates over and over again that people become self aware and they're like, oh my goodness, that's great.

[Kevin Ellison]

Yeah. I mean there's so many because I keep testing it to do different things all the time and I am so surprised on what it can do. So I may say going down a path of I'm working on something and I've created something and I've put in and I've gotten a great result out of it. And then I can always go back and ask the question to it and say, okay, what am I missing here? If I want to apply what you just told me, what am I missing.

Here and what, what's the gaps in.

It in order for it to be even better. So let me give you an example. So there's a lot of people and it's about prompts. Right. So a lot of people are out there and everybody's sharing prompts and they're trading prompts and they're saying, hey, this prompt should be illegal.

If you're watching social media, everybody's saying.

That or I know.

Here's the five prompts you should know for every business.

Right, Right.

But if you look at those, they're.

Only about one or two or three or four sentences long, a very short paragraph. Okay?

That's a concept. That's not a really a prompt. Now, if you put that in a Chat GPT, it's going to give a result back, and you go, wow, that's a great prompt. But I have taken.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

I've.

[Kevin Ellison]

I've tried to show this to so many authors of these people that are putting out these prompts to say, this is a great concept, but let me show you what a great prompt is.

And so another thing that I've done is, and you can do this within.

Prompt Master is you can take any of these. If I find something that I think, wow, here's five great prompts or five great concepts of prompts that somebody's put online. I take a snapshot of my phone.

With my phone, and then I have.

ChatGPT, and I say, hey, ChatGPT, I want you to be an expert prompt.

Engineer, and I want you to recreate.

These prompts that I received from these screen captures that I've taken on my.

Phone, and I upload those, and boom, it puts it together.

Now it knows that I've done a.

Lot of work in building this prompt master. So now it just knows.

Because it knows.

[Podcast Host (Kerry Weston)]

It knows.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Because it knows your history.

[Kevin Ellison]

Yeah, it knows my history.

Right. Sorry. Good.

Good point to bring up.

So it knows my history. So what it does is now it asks me, kevin, would you like me.

To turn this into a super prompt for you?

And I didn't know what that terminology was. It blew my mind the first time it said that to me. And I go, okay, maybe I super prompt.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

So I've never heard. So this is new terminology for me. I understand the concept completely, but I've never heard the term super prompt before. So that's. That's actually a term?

[Kevin Ellison]

No. What?

Well, that's what Chat GPT called it. I didn't name it a super prompt.

It did.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

That's what I mean. Yeah, it came back. So what do they mean by super prompt?

[Kevin Ellison]

It meant that. Do you want me to put this into the. Into the way you create prompts and really build it? So I'll take it and put in maybe these little paragraphs that are good concepts. And I said, oh, that's probably a really good idea. I want to explore that a little bit better. I drop that into ChatGPT, and it says, hey, you want to build a super prop.

And it goes, and it builds a.

Three or four page and it also has all the questions in there of what specific things that I need.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Okay, so I've got a framework and it's much simpler than what you just said, but it's a concept, it's a philosophy. I'm just going to throw it at you and see if it relates to or similar to the way you go. So I tell people, in the SimpleTest form, the four part framework that I teach is if you can get into the conversation, what am I doing? Why am I doing it, what success looks like. And then the fourth one is to say, do you have any questions for me? Right. So in a prompt, if I can say, this is what I'm doing and this is what I need help and this is why I'm doing it. Right? This is the context, this is what success looks like. And then ask it, do you have any questions for me? That's how I get to the more complete prompt. So it sounds like you've got a super. This is on steroids. Here it is.

[Kevin Ellison]

But you've got, that's the basic framework.

And this is what I typically teach anybody that I'm working with is number.

One, you have to give it a role.

Okay, a role.

So you say, instead of saying I.

Want you to be an expert copywriter.

You'Ve got to give it a real.

Specific or real contextual role. And that is I want you to be an expert business writer in the.

Top 0.1% of industry in your field. In the industry. I watched the last three articles that you've written for your SAS company or.

Your enterprise company business that you had.

You've increased your traffic and engagement by 280%. Now that's a role. So you just see what I just.

Said, you want to give it a role.

I just expanded everything that you need to do to provide enough context there. Context and specificity is so important. Okay, then you said, I agree, you're going to put the context in. It's like starting a new job.

I wouldn't just give you a laptop and I would just say, hey, I.

Want you to go and do your job now. No, you need to learn.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Although we've all, although we've all done that more than we want to admit.

[Kevin Ellison]

Yeah, but you have to give it a lot of background. So here's another thing that I've done is, and I've noticed that something I've learned about it is that I did deep research using ChatGPT and I had do research on our organization, our business and I had it build a 10 page document of who we are as a company and then I refined it with it. So I worked with it and said this is not quite accurate. This is.

Okay, now I've got a boilerplate of.

Who we are as a company. I can use this across any of the other tools or any of the other chat bots that are out there because I can get it up to speed. So like if I'm doing work in ChatGPT, I might want Claude to know or I might like Gemini to know. So I constantly, every month give it updates to the other ones so that they know what I'm doing and when I've done with the other one. So now they all are at the same level of thinking of where I'm at. Okay, I probably just went there.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

I was going to say we've got. You just opened two more hours of conversation brief. So the first door you opened was the concept of what prompting and conversation is, what makes a good one and how you've used it. I think you gave some great context.

[Kevin Ellison]

But I didn't finish it. I'm sorry, I didn't finish it.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Oh, well, if you didn't finish it, then let's go.

[Kevin Ellison]

Okay, so the last two things, last few things you need and you have you touched on is what does success look like? Right. Success. That's the third thing.

Right. So you got to really tell it. Do I want a chart? Do I want a table? Do I want you to verify your work? Do I want.

What are all those things that I.

Want that, that are.

Here is a copy of something that.

I created that I want to be.

Just like this or in this format.

Right. So you can upload that. Right. And the last thing is, and I've.

Seen people do it, but I use.

A little bit longer question and I.

Ask it, ask me any clarifying questions.

To ensure you complete this task with 100% accuracy.

And by saying that exactly to it, if you don't do one, two or three steps correctly, it's going to interview you and ask you for all the.

Detail, like who's the audience, what the.

Tone is, what, what, where's the numbers for this analysis or strategy you're doing whatever it is, it's going to ask you all of that detail that you forgot or you didn't know that you needed to put in there.

Okay.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Okay. So regular listeners to the show are hearing some consistent themes in what you're saying, which is don't Assume you've got to have it, get full context. And even if you don't know what to say, that fourth tip that Kevin just gave you, which is ask me the clarifying questions you need to fully understand and do our best work. The best way to kind of fill in the gaps there, you know, curiosity before we. Before we get to the second door there. I started playing with Consequences not too long ago. And by that I mean I've told it literally. I've said this before, too. Hey, listen, I need you to do breastwork. Do you have any questions for me? By the way? If this doesn't work, this is my livelihood and I'll probably get fired and I'll probably be living in a car with my family, and I won't have anywhere to go or anything to eat. So this is really important. I've gone way, way, way over the top with it. And what I found with Consequences is it comes back from an empathetic point of view and it says, okay, I really understand how important this is now, so I do have some questions for you. When I actually put those consequences on the line, the questions get better.

[Kevin Ellison]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

So here's something that got my attention.

[Kevin Ellison]

Sure.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

And it is a constant question. And it's a constant question because the answer constantly changes. But at this moment, I know that you've been playing with this a lot. And so what I get are folks wondering because they're confused. First of all, they're anxious. They don't want to make a mistake. I have people that are afraid to start using one tool because they don't know if they're neglecting three others. It's a lot like social media. People say, am I supposed to spend all my time on this platform or this platform? And I don't want to get involved because I can't. I don't have time to do all five. And so I tell people to pick a lane and get comfortable with it. You have spent time understanding the nuances and differences between the Gronk and Descript and Claude and whatnot. So can you give a quick overview of what you're seeing? And I know, again, this is going to change by the time this episode comes out. The answer is probably going to change. Right. But just in general, if you were to give advice at an eighth grade level in terms of what tool you're seeing is best for what. And then after that, how did you work that into Prompt Master so that it's actually guiding people?

[Kevin Ellison]

Okay, good. Those are two really great questions.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Yeah, it's A long question. I apologize.

[Kevin Ellison]

So, okay, let's see if I can put it. CHAT GPT is probably the best all around product. Chat GPT 5.1 Pro. And when you're using Chat CBT, you don't always have to say, I want the latest and greatest model. Okay? That's a very important thing about using any of the ll. Any of the chatbots, okay. Because. Or the large language models like ChatGPT. Everybody says, oh, I want the latest and greatest, but that may be. Take the longest time for it to come out.

So chat GPT 5.1 Pro. Great.

Chat GPT 4O is really great. And it's fast. It's much faster than 5.1 or 5.1 pro R. So all around that's good.

Anthropic quad.

And they just increased. They've just did an update to it. It's really good for writing. And so that's a great.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

When you say writing, when you say writing, you mean what?

[Kevin Ellison]

So writing articles, writing social media posts, any type of documentation, white papers, anything like that. It is really good at that.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Okay, so, okay, so let's, let's define in your, in your opinion. It's all your opinion. Yeah, but when you say it writes really good, because I know CHAT writes really good too. So when you say it writes really good, what nuances are you referring to?

[Kevin Ellison]

Well, let me, let me give you an example. So we write a bunch of articles, blog articles at our company to educate our consumers that they ask, you answer Mark Sheridan model.

Right?

So we write a lot of articles, but what we do is we write.

It the outline and the first initial.

Article we have, we've created it like Prompt Master. We've created a way of writing articles the way we want to do it within ChatGPT. And it writes great outlines and then writes great article. Then what we do is we take.

It over and put it into Claude.

And say, Claude, rewrite this prop. And we have a new rewrite this article.

And we have a prompt there that teaches how to write like a human.

Okay.

Because ChatGPT can write really good and.

Get all the resources and the research.

And all the technical information, but we want it to be written like a human.

So we wanted to have those bullet points. We want it to be structured correctly, maybe throw a table in there, maybe take the language down and the tone. But we want to take it from Chat GPT to Claude. So that's where I say, I think Claude's really good at writing.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

That's a great example.

[Kevin Ellison]

Yeah. And then and then in our.

In working with my content manager, early on, she didn't want.

She didn't think that AI, this is a year and a half ago or two years ago. And I said to her, hey, you guys got to start using AI. And she said, I can write better than AI. And I said, oh, really?

[Libsyn Ads Announcer]

Great.

[Kevin Ellison]

Give me your best article and then give me the next article you're going to write on. And she goes, okay. And overnight I went home and I told ChatGPT, take this article written by this author and I want you to write us. Build a style guide of what the tone is, how she writes, how she breaks up, all of her sentences, how.

The tone of her writing. I want you to give me that.

Whole guideline of how she writes. And then I want you now to write, once you've done that, write this article that we want to do. I want you to do the research, give me the outline, and then write the article. So I brought it back to her the next morning and she goes, wow, Kevin, that's the best writing you've ever done. I go, I didn't write it. She goes, what do you mean? I said, AI wrote it. She goes, okay, I'm all in now.

But that's the type of thing we.

Need to do, right? So where were we going? Righty. So, okay, Claude's right.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

So we had ChatGPT. ChatGPT is kind of like the Swiss army knife, right? Claude gets a little bit more human in the. Right.

[Kevin Ellison]

So Gemini, what's Gemini is. And I have to go with this last release because you're hearing a lot in the news about Nano Banana. Okay. Nano Banana is.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Which is image portion.

[Kevin Ellison]

The image portion of. Of Google's Gemini product. Right. So they've got. Now Google is now Gemini 3 Pro and they've got Nano Banana, which is the code name they had with the developers back. And then he just released it because they thought it was cute. And Google does stuff like that. So it actually is really good at creating images.

When I say creating images, you need.

To learn how to prompt to do that. I also wrote and created a Chat GPT tool called Image Architect.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

And what it does now is that in Prompt Master.

[Kevin Ellison]

No, it's not.

It's a separate tool. And I'll be glad to give you.

The link so you can give it to your listeners.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

I was just going to say, because I'm going to put in the show notes, I'm going to put the link to Prompt Master, but if there's another.

[Kevin Ellison]

One, I can share that too.

There's another problem I had to solve.

Is that there's all these different tools out there that we can use. There's Leonardo, there's Sora, There's. There's chat GPT's Dall E3, there is.

Mid Journey, but there's all, There's Adobe Firefly, but there's all these image tools out there.

And I wanted to solve the business problem.

How do I write for each one.

Of those and how do I write.

A really good prompt?

Right? So that's, that's a whole other story. But going back to Google, Gemini and Nano Banana, great tool for creating, not.

Just telling it what an image is. You can load an image in and you can ask it to spin yourself.

Around and it'll give you all those images all the way around.

You could say, I could say, hey, Corey, I want to take a picture of you and I want to change the color of your, of your shirt. I want to put you in a different surrounding. I want to do all these different things that I would want to do with you. And you don't have to do this in Photoshop anymore because they can just provide you those.

Right.

It's a great collaboration tool to say.

Where we were coming up for our, our company's annual meeting, we have with all of our employees and I had.

It build out a whole bunch of imagery for different themes for it, and it did that. Another part of that is that. And although we use ChatGPT a lot.

Google is getting really good.

They've got a product called Notebook LM and it's got the image portion within that. And now it can create amazing infographics, those graphics you see where there's. You could take something that you're writing about and you can just drop it in a Notebook element. Say, create me an infographic. Boom, 30 seconds to a minute. You've got a great image that you.

Could put with your article. It's.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Would it be safe to say? Because this is a shortcoming of ChatGPT, ChatGPT is not so good at numbers. It can look at numbers and it can give you some basic stuff, but it's not so good at analyzing. And so I have workshops where there's a lot of accountants and CFOs and finance people and whatnot. And I tell them, don't get it. Get out of Chat GPT because you're not going to put your annual forecast and budgeting tool into Chat GPT and get something that you're proud of. Do you hear descript or Notebook is. Are they stronger in the numbers side? Is that something I'm hearing?

[Kevin Ellison]

Yeah, they are. And you're fighting chat. GPT is getting better at it as well. One of the things with just not only with visualization of data that Gemini's Nano Banana came out with, and with Notebook lm, it's really good at data visualization.

So you can take a bunch of.

Numbers and you can throw it now into NotebookLM so you could take all that data that you have for, say, an annual report. It'll build out all the pages of an annual report. I took one of my presentations, I also took one of our presentations that our president has given us, which has.

A ton of data in it.

And I said, here's another perspective on the way you should present this. He looked at it and he goes, wow, you just told me about Notebook 11. Is that what you did? And I said, yeah. And he goes, this is amazing. He was just blown away on how it took all of his slides that are so data heavy and that could just bore you to death, and now.

It made it into something that's really.

Intriguing and, and really fun to look at and learn.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Okay, so we've got ChatGPT, the Swiss army knife, very highly functional multitasking tool. Claude's a good writing, humanizing writing tool. Gemini is really getting good into data and graphics. What's a fourth one that you've put into Prompt Master?

[Kevin Ellison]

I also put in deepseek, which is a Chinese product. It's really good.

It's so hard to say every week these products are updated or every month they're updated. And it's just like just last week we had Claude update.

We had.

Google's Gemini updated.

There's another one called Kimmy, which is.

Another good one, which was updated recently.

Grok Elon Musk's product came out 4.1.

All of these products and Deep Sync, it just keep, they keep pushing the envelope.

And what's really difficult, and it's just like I'm finding it's very. And I'm sure your audience is finding that there's so many tools out there, right?

There are so many different tools, you.

Don'T know what, what to use.

But I have to go back and say the best thing you can do.

In this experience and for us to all learn is for you to learn the foundations of prompting first. Okay? That's what I teach everyone in our organization and I'm teaching anyone that that was willing to listen learn how to prompt first. Okay? And even though prompting may go away a couple years from now, five years from now, I don't know. But it. It may go away because it may get better.

But we learned the foundational approach.

You don't need all these other tools out there that people are selling. All they're doing is putting front ends on Chat GBT or on Grok or on Google Gemini. You don't need to know that.

All you really need to do is.

Learn the basics of how to use these LLMs or chats.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

That's a great point. I'm glad you brought it up. So your. Your Prom Master tool is not so much going to say, this tool is better than this tool. What it's going to say is, I've recognized that the way you interact with these different tools might be different. So if you put in what you want to get out of it, I'm going to help you give a tool that's relevant, that would get the most out of whatever tool you're going to use. Is that what I heard you say?

[Kevin Ellison]

Yeah.

Think of it as a translator.

Right.

So really what it is, is it's.

Helping you interact with this AI, each.

Of these AI tools in order for you to get your thoughts out to them, in order to get a great.

Great, great result back from them.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

Kevin, thank you. Thank you for. You've given us a lot to think about. You've given some really great perspectives, and this audience is highly curious. And I know that's probably a word that's safe to say about yourself.

[Kevin Ellison]

Absolutely.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

When I've talked with you and seen you and follow you, curiosity is a key for you. If people want to get in touch, if they want to learn more, if they want to reach out, where do they find you?

[Kevin Ellison]

Well, I'm sure you put it in.

The notes, but my name is actually Kevin with two E's. K E V E N. My last name is Allison. E L L I S O N. You can find me on LinkedIn. I write about this stuff three or four times a week, maybe more than that, about what's the latest and greatest, what things are happening. When I update any of my tools, you can see that I love talking about this. I mean, I just have a passion for it, and I think that's what everyone should be because this is our future.

[Podcast Host (Possibly Corey or Kerry)]

And what I always say is the spark that drives that is your curiosity. So you can't go wrong being curious. You can't break it. You can't do it wrong. You can only learn either to do it differently, better, or keep doing what you want. So, Kevin Ellison, thank you so much. I will put your contact information in the show notes. Appreciate you joining us. It's been a pleasure. We'll talk soon. Okay?

[Kevin Ellison]

Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Hey guys.

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