Podcast Summary: The Chris Cuomo Project

Episode: Dr. Drew Explains How Politics Hijacked Science

Date: September 18, 2025
Host: Chris Cuomo
Guest: Dr. Drew Pinsky

Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, Chris Cuomo sits down with Dr. Drew Pinsky to dissect how the intersection of politics and science, especially during and after the Covid-19 pandemic, has affected public trust, policy, and the collective mental health of American society. The conversation navigates personal perceptions, vaccine controversies, policy-making, media distortions, the role of public health institutions, and broader societal trends—including polarization, scapegoating, optimism vs. pessimism, and generational challenges.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dr. Drew’s Public Perception and Consistency

• Dr. Drew addresses the criticism that he has “switched sides” or become a Trump or MAGA supporter.
  • [01:56] Dr. Drew: “No, I have not switched. I'm still moderate. I spent most of my career fighting the right … and then the left came after me for not carrying water for canonic ideas, whatever they might be.”
• Drew explains that his stand has always been one of moderation, data, and reason—not team allegiance.

2. Covid-19: Policy, Science, and Institutional Failures

• Comparison of H1N1 response (under Obama) to Covid-19:
  • H1N1 was handled calmly, with little politicization.
  • Covid-19 response became a spectacle, with drastic decisions and divisive rhetoric.
• Critique of mandates and the lack of post-pandemic self-reflection:
  • [10:08] Dr. Drew: “Whenever we have a case, we do a postmortem, we study what we did right and wrong. Let's have a collective morbidity mortality report ... And there's just—all people have to do is say, ‘I got it wrong.’”
• Political leaders offloading responsibility onto the CDC (Trump & Biden), leading to further distrust.

3. Fauci, “the White Coat,” and Weaponized Information

• Dr. Drew both defends and critiques Fauci, calling for more open acknowledgment of mistakes and uncertainties.
  • [04:13] Dr. Drew: “…he seemed like he was obfuscating, like he knew some things he was not coming clean about … I mean, just be clear about it. Why are you taking that [stance]?”
• Cuomo’s perspective: It's less about deliberate deception and more about scientists being unaccustomed to political warfare.
  • [05:04] Cuomo: “…I don’t think Tony obfuscates. I think Tony is old. And I think Tony is a scientist and he is new to politics…”

4. The Vaccine Debate: Mandates, Risk, and Trust

• Both note that early Covid vaccines saved lives (especially during Alpha/Delta), but question the later mandates and lack of nuance.
  • [06:21] Dr. Drew: “…Operation Warp Speed and the vaccine during alpha and delta … saved some of my patients’ lives … But then mandates kicked in, and I was like, whoa, whoa, now we're mandating … That to me was bizarre.”
• Drew contrasts the US approach to school vaccine mandates with other countries that rely on education and voluntary uptake.
  • [11:55] Dr. Drew: "Are you aware that 88 countries have no mandate for school attendance ... The way they do it is through education and the physician recommendations."
• Deep concern over the loss of “informed consent” and the erosion of medical bioethics.

5. Science vs. Politics: Different Operating Systems

• Science evolves and changes with new data—politics punishes change.
  • [07:23] Cuomo: "In science, that's all you do—change your position. In politics, you're a dead man."
• The CDC's original role was advisory, not regulatory; mandates have shifted its function.
  • [08:25] Dr. Drew: “The CDC was never supposed to be a political organization… Its job is advisory.”

6. The Weaponization of Certainty and “Irrational Certitude”

• Both bemoan a crisis of excessive, unearned certainty (irrational certitude), harming science and discourse.
  • [23:32] Dr. Drew: "We have irrational certitude on the loose."
  • [23:41] Dr. Drew: "Our job as a scientist is to have rational uncertainty at all times."
• Dunning-Kruger effect in the age of endless information, where people believe themselves experts with little true expertise.

7. Social Psychology of Polarization and Scapegoating

• Drew likens current social dynamics to moments in history when mobs and crowds turn destructive, often under the guise of “the good.”
  • [34:39] Dr. Drew: "I've found myself studying crowds and 1789 France... Masses are a special thing and they get swept into frenzies... Social ill is always done in the name of good and often because of a hysteria that sweeps in."
• Both lament the rapid binary swings in American politics, where the “pendulum” always overcorrects.

8. Majority vs. the Fringe

• Most Americans are exhausted by the polarization, want to move on, and are not represented by extremism.
  • [29:11] Dr. Drew: “The crazy town part is about 10 to 20% become evangelical… Everybody else, the 70%, just wanted to kind of get on with life... that's the group we got to worry about.”
• Cuomo: The conversation for the many is crowded out by the few.

9. Generational & Social Concerns: Young People, Community, Elder Care

• Drew worries most about young people's pessimism and disconnection, but also sees hopeful signs of renewed engagement and family-building in parts of the country.
  • [58:20] Dr. Drew: "The lack of ability to find meaning and to find satisfying relationships and to build families, this is profoundly concerning to me ... But… I'm seeing babies all over the place. I'm seeing marriages happening."
• Both discuss the changing nature of family structure, with a positive nod to multi-generational living.

10. Humility, Narcissism & What Comes Next

• Both argue that humility is desperately needed, but doesn't fit with current narcissistic cultural trends.
  • [55:53] Dr. Drew: "Humility is a really important virtue these days. Ah, but it doesn't really… go with narcissism."
• Science, conversation, and curiosity are “the cure”—but can also be used as “the poison” (when weaponized).
  • [53:21] Cuomo: "I do. I think conversation is the cure ... But it's also the poison. You know, it depends on how somebody is using it."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [06:21] Dr. Drew: "Operation Warp Speed and the vaccine during alpha and delta ... saved some of my patients' lives... But then mandates kicked in, and I was like, whoa, whoa, now we're mandating. ... That to me was bizarre."
• [10:08] Dr. Drew: "Let's have a collective morbidity mortality report on what we did. And there's just—all people have to do is say, 'I got it wrong.'"
• [23:32] Dr. Drew: "We have irrational certitude on the loose."
• [23:41] Dr. Drew: "Our job as a scientist is to have rational uncertainty at all times."
• [29:11] Dr. Drew: "The crazy town part is about 10 to 20% become evangelical… Everybody else, the 70%, just wanted to kind of get on with life…"
• [34:39] Dr. Drew: "Masses are a special thing and they get swept into frenzies and we should all be on our guard."
• [55:53] Dr. Drew: "Humility is a really important virtue these days. Ah, but it doesn't really… go with narcissism."
• [58:20] Dr. Drew: "The lack of ability to find meaning and to find satisfying relationships and to build families, this is profoundly concerning to me ..."
• [53:21] Cuomo: "I do. I think conversation is the cure ... But it's also the poison. You know, it depends on how somebody is using it."

Timeline of Important Segments

| Timestamp | Topic / Segment | |-----------|------------------------------------------------| | 00:30 | Opening framing: Dr. Drew’s public perception | | 01:56 | Dr. Drew on perception and political realignment | | 04:06 | Critique and defense of Fauci | | 06:21 | Operation Warp Speed and vaccine mandates | | 08:25 | CDC, federal mandates, and institutional drift | | 10:08 | Lack of post-pandemic self-assessment | | 11:55 | International comparison: vaccine mandates | | 20:19 | Medicine’s role in life expectancy gains | | 23:32 | The problem of “irrational certitude” | | 29:11 | The 10-20% fringe vs. the 70% silent majority | | 34:39 | Mob mentality and scapegoating in society | | 47:12 | The “many vs. the few”—majority’s challenges | | 55:53 | Humility, narcissism, and Dunning-Kruger | | 58:20 | Crisis/opportunity for this generation |

Tone & Language

• The episode is candid, searching, often philosophical and personal; both Cuomo and Dr. Drew are self-reflective and occasionally profane.
• The tone is sometimes exasperated but fundamentally committed to reason, dialogue, and realism over ideology.
• There’s humor and mutual respect: “Conversation is the cure… But it’s also the poison.” (Cuomo, [53:21])

Conclusion

This episode of The Chris Cuomo Project is a nuanced, high-level exploration of how politics has upended science, particularly in the post-pandemic era. Dr. Drew and Chris Cuomo model rational uncertainty, humility, and a relentless curiosity—qualities they argue are more necessary than ever. They highlight the need for reflection, context, and genuine conversation as a path back toward collective flourishing, even as American society grapples with polarization, pessimism, moral certitude, and the ongoing risk of social “mob” dynamics.

For listeners seeking reassurance that thoughtful discussion and principled disagreement are still possible in American media, this episode is an example and a call to arms for nuance, humility, and engagement with the many—rather than obsession with the few.