How Does This End in Iran

Summary

The Chris Cuomo Project

Episode: "How Does This End in Iran"

Date: March 29, 2026
Host: Chris Cuomo
Key Guests: Rep. Ryan Zinke (R-MT), Senator Joe Manchin (D-WV)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Chris Cuomo focuses on the ongoing crisis with Iran, American foreign policy, political strategy, and the challenges facing U.S. democracy. He conducts in-depth discussions with Rep. Ryan Zinke and Senator Joe Manchin, mixed with listener calls that address critical issues such as the national debt and the flaws in America’s political system. The conversations are candid, occasionally combative, and reflect Cuomo’s signature approach: pressing for honesty while maintaining civility among politically diverse voices.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Iran Crisis – Threat Assessment & Policy Responses

(00:15 – 13:06)

Zinke’s Assessment of the Iranian Regime

• Zinke emphasizes the real threat posed by the Iranian regime, including their intent when they say “Death to America,” and the risk of nuclear proliferation.
• He stresses that everyone—military, intelligence, citizens—must do their duty for national security.
• Zinke claims over 200 individuals on terrorist watch lists have entered the U.S. and identifies this as a major vulnerability.
• He points out the regime’s threat to attack public gatherings and key infrastructure (00:48).

Ryan Zinke (00:48): “You got to take them at face value when they say destruction, death to America. These people mean it.”

Trump Administration’s Approach to Iran

• Zinke credits President Trump’s approach of making clear deals and threats to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, but acknowledges that Trump underestimated both the evil of the regime and the limitations of force.
• Cuomo pushes back that Trump never advocated for heavy military action but claimed he’d “make deals” and command respect (02:35).

Chris Cuomo (02:35): “President Trump... never suggested in any way that he was going to go heavy military on Iran. His argument was that hasn’t worked for us.”

The Perpetual Dilemma: Stay or Go?

• Cuomo questions the value and sustainability of continued U.S. involvement:
  • “So then get out. How does it get any better for us from here?” (03:56)
  • Expresses skepticism about the U.S. being able to eliminate the nuclear threat through military means (04:07).
• Zinke insists that nuclear material could end up in U.S. cities, so withdrawal is not a simple answer (06:00).

Ryan Zinke (06:00): “If they have nuclear material, Chris, it will be in a shipping container to Houston.”

Regime Change and the Future

• Zinke wavers on regime change but argues the only “hedge” is the Iranian people themselves rising up. He highlights the regime’s brutality and repression (09:24).
• He presents a disturbing quote attributed to Khomeini to underline the regime’s “evil” (09:24).

2. The Cost and Limits of Intervention

(11:04 – 13:06)

• Cuomo cautions that Americans are wary of more ground wars in the Middle East after Iraq/Afghanistan.
• Zinke agrees: “I don’t think putting troops in the ground is a wise idea.”
• Both acknowledge the economic fallout of instability in the Gulf, especially through oil prices, but Zinke contrasts this with the risk of a “nuclear holocaust.”

3. Domestic Political Ramifications: Government Shutdown & Border Security

(13:06 – 15:07)

• Zinke discusses the government shutdown situation, focusing on funding (or lack thereof) for ICE and DHS.
• Criticizes both political gamesmanship and the practice of casting too wide a net in immigration enforcement.

Ryan Zinke (14:44): "When the net is too wide, then you're gonna make mistakes. And those mistakes are people. It's not like they're numbers. They're people."

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Maintaining Political Civility

(15:25 – 16:35)

• Zinke and Cuomo agree on the need for robust, respectful debate—something missing in current American politics.
• The two compliment each other for engaging in honest, hard-edged discussions without antagonism.

Chris Cuomo (16:01): “Fighting is easy. Being fake tough is easy... I am always respectful of you for two reasons. One, I respect your service. Two, I show that respect by testing you…"

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Filibuster, Senate Dysfunction, and the Power Imbalance

(18:52 – 25:27)

• Senator Joe Manchin addresses listener concerns about the filibuster and why he fiercely defends it as crucial for minority rights in the Senate.

Joe Manchin (19:39): “If you don’t want [minority participation], you want to swing back and forth like parliaments... then that’s what you would have every two years. There would be no consistency.”

• Cuomo highlights that the zero-sum nature of modern politics is eroding intended Senate deliberation.

Manchin on Presidential Power

(23:09 – 25:27)

• Manchin laments increasing executive overreach and criticizes senators who act as extensions of the president, reminding that senators work for their states, not any president.

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Iran: Manchin’s Policy Checklist

(26:07 – 28:30)

• Manchin lays out his three priorities for U.S. policy:
  1. Secure a real deal with Gulf States.
  2. Avoid U.S. boots on the ground—let Israel handle enriched uranium if necessary.
  3. Encourage Gulf States to stabilize their own region; U.S. and Israel shouldn’t be running things.

Joe Manchin (26:07): “We can’t stay there and run the place. We can help them clean up their neighborhood... but unless you have [regional buy-in], you’re not going to fix this."

• Manchin is frank about the ideological tenacity of Iran’s leadership; war won’t end it.

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Listener Calls: Public Frustrations & Political Alternatives

Key Calls: 35:13 – 47:00

On U.S. Insolvency and National Debt

• John from New Jersey (35:13): Cites a Forbes article on U.S. insolvency and asks about fiscal responsibility.
• Cuomo breaks down the meaning of insolvency, linking it to unfunded liabilities versus actual U.S. capacity to print money (37:57).

Chris Cuomo (37:57): “America is different than you… It can print money and that’s why we keep going.”

On Electoral Reforms

• Political Consultant from Arizona (40:34): Suggests nationwide district-based electoral votes like Nebraska/Maine to force presidential candidates to pay attention to more states.
• Cuomo agrees the idea would be good for democracy but insists the two parties will never allow it (44:30).

Chris Cuomo (44:30): “The players like to control the game and the players want the smallest pool of voters possible... That’s why your idea is a good one, and that’s why it won’t happen.”

On the U.S. Obsession with Foreign vs. Domestic Evil

• Kara from Michigan (45:31): Calls out Zinke for decrying Iran’s treatment of women while ignoring domestic abuses like those exposed in the Epstein case.
• Cuomo agrees there’s a double standard and failures in accountability.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ryan Zinke (09:24): “Let me give you a quote. ‘Females in custody should be raped before executed so they don’t go to heaven.’ That’s a quote from Khomeini. This is the level of evil we see there.”
• Chris Cuomo (16:01): “Fighting is easy. Being fake tough is easy... I am always respectful of you for two reasons. One, I respect your service and your position. Two, I show that respect by testing you…”
• Joe Manchin (19:39): “If you don’t want that [minority participation], you want to swing back and forth like parliaments... then that’s what you would have every two years.”
• Chris Cuomo (44:30): “The only way we beat this is to destroy the two party system. It’s not in our Constitution. It’s a mere tradition... and it is stifling us.”
• Kara from Michigan (45:31): “Let us look no further than our own backyard. Like the calls coming from inside the house...”

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Important Timestamps

• 00:15: Introduction of Rep. Ryan Zinke and threat assessment on Iran
• 03:04: Trump’s Iran strategy vs. military force
• 09:24: Iran’s regime brutality – striking quote from Khomeini
• 13:06: Transition to domestic politics, government shutdown discussion
• 19:39: Manchin’s filibuster defense and Senate history
• 26:07: Manchin’s "what now" strategy on Iran for the President
• 35:13: Listener Q&A begins: National debt and insolvency
• 40:34: Electoral College reform and two-party system critique
• 45:31: Kara’s call on domestic hypocrisy regarding women’s rights

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Episode Tone and Style

• Language & Tone: Candid, occasionally combative, but always civil. Cuomo presses guests and callers for honesty, refusing political doublespeak. Guests are direct and sometimes blunt about their policy views.
• Atmosphere: High-stakes, urgent, but also accessible and human, inviting both expert and everyday voices.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Chris Cuomo Project delivers a timely, unflinching examination of U.S. strategy toward Iran, the dangers of unchecked executive power, the weaknesses in America’s crisis management, and the persistent need for real democratic debate. By weaving together political heavyweights and concerned citizens, Cuomo offers a panoramic view of the challenges—and hopes—facing the nation in 2026.

Transcript

[Ryan Zinke]

TikTok shop.

[Chris Cuomo]

Representative Zinke, who's on the phone right now, so let's bring him in.

[Ryan Zinke]

Good morning.

[Chris Cuomo]

Hey, Representative, how you doing? Thank you for joining us. And Republican Montana, in case you don't know, former special operator, former member of the Trump Cabinet in the first administration. Thank you for doing this. I wish you a happy Easter in advance. Can you give us a 30,000 foot view of the, the threat assessment that the regime presents and why you believe this was necessary?

[Ryan Zinke]

You know, I was quickly listening to the previous caller and I gotta tell you, he's, he's spot on in that

[Joe Manchin]

the, you know, you got to look

[Ryan Zinke]

at the front line and if the front line is healthy, then, you know, the, the force is healthy and the front line is also made of the people that supply the ammunition. So who's more important in war? Is it the person that supplies the resource or the person that squeezes the trigger? The point is, is everyone's important and everyone just has to do their duty. And if everyone does their duty, you know, our country is in shape and doing the duty is, hey, going to work every day and trying to contribute where he can. That's the duty on our, on what we face. You know, I'm co chairman of the Northern Montana Caucus, the, the, the Border Caucus, Northern Border Caucus as well. And there is at least 200 individuals that are on the terrorist watch list that made it through this country that are somewhere in this country. We don't know where they are. You know, obviously we're looking, but there is a danger. And you saw when, when the regime most recently said, hey, we're going to go after your parks, we're going to go after where people gather. We're going to go after, you know, the holidays. You got to take them at face value when they say destruction, death to America. These people mean it, you know, and having a nuclear weapon, and this is where Trump, I think was spot on. He made him, he made him a deal and the deal was this. You're not going to have a nuclear weapon. You're not going to have an arsenal of destruction with the missile array that will defeat, as we've seen even.

[Chris Cuomo]

He definitely said it, Ryan. He definitely said it. But let's be, let's be clear. President Trump, candidate Trump never suggested in any way that he was going to go heavy military on Iran. His argument was that hasn't worked for us. And I make deals and these guys will respect me in a way they don't respect other presidents. And I'll get it Done. This is not what he ever suggested. Let's just be frank about it.

[Ryan Zinke]

Well, yeah, and I would say the idea that, remember you also said, I'm going to end Ukraine on day one. I think he underestimated the extent of the evil he faced and he underestimated the value of the threat of using military force. I'm gonna, I'm in Ukraine in a day. I'm gonna, I'm gonna bomb Iran. Now, having said that, they lost their first, this is Iran. They lost their first and second echelon of military. They lost their first echelon of leadership. They've lost their two to a great degree, their air defense, their ability to communicate within, their ability to strike at will. Their, their, their miss Then get out, Ryan.

[Chris Cuomo]

So then get out. I mean, how does it get any better for us from here?

[Ryan Zinke]

Well, I think you go back to the deal. They, they can't have a nuclear weapon.

[Chris Cuomo]

Yeah, but you're not going to be able to control that this way. You're not going to be able to find that uranium. Just drop the bunker busters on their mountain, say you did what you could and then leave it to the region and leave it to Israel and get out. You don't think this is going to kill you guys in the midterms?

[Ryan Zinke]

Well, well, you know what sometimes is popular is not right now when they say they have nuclear material is. This is not a guess, Chris. And you know, we know how much they have. So when they say death to America, it's not just a ballistic missile.

[Chris Cuomo]

Look, when they say death, they mean it. And they would use whatever.

[Ryan Zinke]

They will be in New York, Chris.

[Chris Cuomo]

Absolutely. We saw the video.

[Ryan Zinke]

They just weapon will be in New York.

[Chris Cuomo]

We saw the video. They just made you and I. Well, I don't, I will never put myself on equal footing with you because of the service you've had to this country. But I, like you in a baby fashion, have looked into the eyes of these guys and they mean it when they say they are willing to die to take me with them. These are bad dudes. Everybody knows that. We saw the movie they just made right after the president said they promised him that they'd never have a nuke. They did a movie of a nuke killing America for everybody else. So we know that's who they are. My point is that I don't see how you remove that threat. I mean, the idea that. We know, we know. Okay. You said you obliterated their ability. The IDF didn't echo that at the time. Why they knew Trump was full of it, but they didn't want to embarrass him. And now we see that in just a few months they had more stuff than they ever had before after you said you obliterated it. That's my point. It's not to play gotcha, but just you've done what you can. Now get out before it becomes, you know, a slippery slope.

[Ryan Zinke]

Well, before it becomes a slippery slope, the threat is still there. If they have nuclear material, Chris, it will be in a shipping caner to Houston.

[Chris Cuomo]

I got you. But how do you get rid of it? You said you're not about regime change, so what are you supposed to do?

[Ryan Zinke]

Well, no, I didn't say that. I said that to the President. Had he gave him a deal, they didn't take it.

[Chris Cuomo]

I know, but the President says I'm not in the regime change business. He says I'm not in the regime change business.

[Ryan Zinke]

Well, I can tell you the first regime isn't around. As far as Khomeini, his son we haven't seen, but it is. What will it take to change their modus of operate to change their ability to strike us and our allies with nuclear weapons? Because we know they are. And so someone, you know, suggested the other day, well, you know, how do you deal with a threat? I can tell you when someone's pointing at the gun, you don't wait until they pull the trigger with or the rod. They're sitting on a nuclear trigger because they have material and doesn't have to go high order. As you know, you can wrap a couple hundred pounds of this, put it in a shipping container with conventional explosives and I can tell you're not going to walk in to blocks and blocks and blocks and blocks considering it's radioactive. So you know, they have the ability, what we have to do is make sure they don't have the ability to strike. And they and their, their modus of operatic was develop a, an arsenal of missiles that would inundate any defense system. And one of those missiles would either have nuclear material or nuclear warhead itself. And it only takes one. But this is the evil these people are.

[Chris Cuomo]

Nobody is arguing that these guys are evil. Nobody is arguing that they don't need to go. The question has always been how? And there is a reason that you guys didn't do this the first time. And it's not that they have all new capabilities. People stay out of there because it's a sinkhole that if you don't want to go in there, wipe them out and own A transition to a better idea then you don't do it. That is always held until now.

[Ryan Zinke]

Well, again, you don't wait until they strike. But they have lost much of their capability. Anything that's floating that we can identify, the Navy is gone. And you look at the Gulf, right? You have about 20 billion or 20 million barrels a day flowing out of the, out of the, out of the Gulf in the straits. That represents about 20%, by the way. The US isn't as vulnerable as much. We're vulnerable in price point because oil is a worldwide commodity. But you know, we produce now somewhere around 13 million barrels a day. We, we consume about 20. So we're not as exposed as Asia, China, etc. But having said that, you know, once they have a nuclear weapon, you don't think they can control the States. Now straits now wait until they have a nuclear.

[Joe Manchin]

We happened.

[Ryan Zinke]

Their leverage is increased in magnitudes.

[Chris Cuomo]

Listen, I don't disagree, I don't disagree with you. But the question is what you do about it? And you know. Well, I, I don't see, this is what I think. Yeah, go ahead, tell me, tell me.

[Ryan Zinke]

One is, I think the coalition forces, primarily those that have a navy and those that depend on oil, oil much more than we do, they need to participate in this and they need to make sure that the strait is secure for shipping, and that includes LNG. And for those that are not aware, the US has over $100 billion invested in Qatar on our liquid natural gas, ConocoPhillips, Exxon, et cetera. So one is the coalition forces have to be a participant in this. Second is you limit their ability to strike. That means continue to, on missiles, on drones and technology, continue to put pressure on them. And, and the hedge is this. The people of Iran themselves, we've seen hundreds of thousands of people in the streets now, now because they're using snipers and killing them. And anyone who appears, and anyone appears in a video, they're hunting down. But the regime can last only so long if the people rise. And so the hedges that, you know, as far as the culture goes, the Persian goals, culture is deep, it is sophisticated. They're well educated. That regime is repressive. And let me give you a quote. Females in custody should be raped before executed so they don't go to heaven. That's a quote from Khomeini. This is the, the, the level of evil we see there.

[Chris Cuomo]

Yeah, but everybody knows that the question is, what do you do?

[Ryan Zinke]

Or we take action.

[Chris Cuomo]

Right, but the idea is we took action. The Idea of being on the ground. I don't know how you guys sell that. I just. I don't know that the idea that there are guys on the ground, no one's going to die. And now we're going to switch to the argument of, yeah, but so few died. I mean, this is nothing like Iraq or Afghanistan. I don't think that's going to wash, Ryan. I really don't.

[Joe Manchin]

Well, yeah, I don't.

[Ryan Zinke]

I don't think putting troops in the ground is. Is a wise idea.

[Joe Manchin]

You don't have to.

[Ryan Zinke]

And I've heard, you know, some. Some ideas. Well, they have an island.

[Joe Manchin]

It has.

[Ryan Zinke]

And this is where they produce their oil and gas. Well, you know, I don't think you should put troops on a platform that's, this. That's one, volatile. And two, I don't think that's what. What America wants is troops protecting other people's oil on the ground. If it was just oil, it'd be a different, I think, situation. And it is expensive, you know, for. It's gonna. It's gonna affect, you know, you and I driving to work are going to be bigger. That means that the groceries are going to be more expensive, etc. But there's a difference between that and facing a nuclear holocaust. So, again, we've been in this for, you know, about a month or so. I would. I would imagine that that that regime, what's left of it, can't survive that long. And I'm hoping, you know, in the region itself, you know who's on our side. Well, you know, now the Islamic countries around, the Monarchs are behind us on it. They don't have the capability. United States, no one has the capability that we do. But I'm hoping this. I'm hoping that we don't put ground troops in. I'm hoping that the regime, what's left of it, changes. And I'm hoping that in this case, we can wrap it up soon enough that the people of Iran decide for a better future. That's my hope. Is it practical? We shall see.

[Chris Cuomo]

All right. Representative, do you think there's any chance that the shutdown ends before Easter?

[Ryan Zinke]

Well, the Senate voted last night to fund everything but ICE and some of the enforcement, which is ironic, Chris, because if you're after ice, then why would you shut down DHS in the very beginning? Because ICE is fully funded under reconciliation. Matter of fact, they're swimming in it. They're swimming in funds. I don't even think they can execute the funds they have. So the bill that The House passed over that. They should have picked up. It reduced their spending and it. And it put in place some modest restrictions on their operations. That was the bill that was sitting there. But I think what happened is it became so political on ice. The Democrats have to show their fighting, that they'll fight for a bill that basically left in place ISIS policies, which I think we all agree. And there's some restrictions on operations because America should trust their law enforcement. And when you hit, when you have breaches across. And in the very beginning, remember, we're gonna go after the bad guys first. Bad guys. There's plenty of bad guys.

[Chris Cuomo]

Yep.

[Ryan Zinke]

But when you put the net to too wide, what happens is then you get.

[Joe Manchin]

Get kids.

[Ryan Zinke]

You get. You get people that maybe, you know, shouldn't be as high as a priority.

[Chris Cuomo]

Yeah.

[Ryan Zinke]

As the guy that's. That's. That's picking on kids. So I think the strategy. I love Tom Holman. Here's a guy that has it right. Go after the bad guys. Go after the bad guys that should have been every day showing bad guys. But when the net is too wide, then you're gonna make mistakes. And those mistakes are people. It's. It's not like they're numbers.

[Joe Manchin]

They're people.

[Chris Cuomo]

Listen, Representative Zinke, I think that this is a refreshing perspective from the right, and I wish you well. If I don't speak to you before, I wish you rebirth and renewal, the promise of Easter, and I appreciate you coming on the show as always.

[Ryan Zinke]

Chris, always a pleasure. You know, in your, you know, we talked about guys that squeeze the trigger. It's also important for people like you to get the message out and have a dialogue. You know, we may not agree on everything, but we agree on the principles. We agree in the Constitution. And I think it's important to have a lively debate. But when you and I talk, you know, look, you know, we may not agree, but we're not disagreeable. And that's what America, the heart of America, should be. We should have the debate. We should. We should have the discourse.

[Chris Cuomo]

100% angry. I mean, that's the only reason I'm still in the business. Fighting is easy. Being playing gotcha, being mean is easy. Being fake tough is easy. I am always respectful of you for two reasons. One, I respect your service and your position. And I show that respect by testing you, because that's the opportunity you should want from the media. And I'm afraid of you physically. So you have that going for me also. I don't want you to unscrew my head like a bottle cap. Be well, sir, and I'll talk to you again soon.

[Joe Manchin]

All right, thanks, Chris.

[Chris Cuomo]

You like that? Taste of Cuomo Mornings. That's my new show on SiriusXM, the Potish Channel 124 every weekday morning, 7 to 9 Eastern. But if you want to just join here on my YouTube channel, you'll be getting a steady diet of selects, and depending on your subscription level, you can have priority call in on that show. You can have more access to me to ask questions, smaller groups, individual conversations about what matters to you. It's all about your level of subscriber. So on the regular basis, we'll be putting excerpts of the show that resonate right here. And how much access you get is up to you. So check out the menu and make the choice that works best for your appetite. Support comes from Ethos Life Insurance. Look, if you want to be in the family game, if you want to have responsibility, you've got to take care of those responsibilities. And I know when I say life insurance, a lot of you are going to say, oh, it's a scam. It's expensive, it's too complicated. I get it. That's why you need ethos.com. i wish I had done it sooner. You know, if you're young and healthy, you can get like, $2 million in term life insurance for, like, two bucks a day. Go to ethos.com, e t-os.com they know how to do this. They've been doing it a long time. They have thousands of reviews, overwhelmingly possible. Okay. They have thousands of reviews, overwhelmingly positive. Ethos makes getting life insurance fast, easy. You can do it 100% online. You can get a quote in seconds. Again, if you're young and healthy, you don't need a doctor's appointment. You don't need any of that stuff, the blood tests, same day coverage. Now, what if you're not? What if you can't get 3 million or thereabouts in coverage, same day? You know, 30 bucks a month. Okay. They work with a lot of partners that can help you get what you need, that works with who you are, how you are, and what your budget is. Again, Ethos has 4.8 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot, over 3,000 reviews.

[Ryan Zinke]

All right.

[Chris Cuomo]

Help protect your family with life insurance through Ethos. Get your instant free', @ethos.com Cuomo E T H O S.com Cuomo application times rates. They're going to vary, but give them a try. Senator, thank you for Calling in this morning. The filibuster is a point of frustration for people. They say, look, we'll get more done if you get rid of it. We don't need it anymore. It's not how the system works. They don't work together. They're only, they're only incentivized to oppose. So let the elections matter and make it a simple majority so they can get more done and the people will decide in the next election. What is your problem with that argument?

[Joe Manchin]

Well, first of all, the whole scenario about you get more done, trust me, they'll get more undone. So anything you thought might have been good from one side of it, whether you liked it or not, from the Biden administration, that will be undone immediately and be qualified to be undone. Those things are, this is a swing, that two year swing. The only thing I have said is this, this country was born basically on the minority's participation. And if that was not so, then why did George Washington, why did all our founding fathers, why did they have a bicameral, why we even have a Senate? And when he had to tell big bad Massachusetts and New York when they were forming this government and says, we know we're going to have the People's House, which will be Congress, and we're going to have an upper chamber called the Senate. And guess what? Every state or every colony at that time will have two representatives. And someone had to say, you mean here in Massachusetts we're going to have to have the same legislative representation as Delaware and Rhode Island? Are you kidding me? They're so small they contribute nothing to the economy. And here we are carrying the whole load of this country. And someone had to say, we don't want the big guys beating up on little guys. That's the premise of what we have. So that if you don't want that, you want to swing back and forth like parliaments around other parts of the world, then that's what you would have every two years you would have swinging back and forth. There would be no consistency and the minority would have no say whatsoever. Why even have a House and a Senate if you're going to have both of them operating under the same rules? Makes no sense at all. But if they're going that direction, I've said this, then basically you need five Democrats right now, have enough courage to say, listen, I will sign, I will sign a document that I will never, as long as I'm a Southern US Senator, never vote to get rid of the filibuster. If you had five Democrats do that now it's over, then John Thune can just go about and try to get what they can and find some commonality. And if that's not the case, I know, Ron Johnson, we've talked about this. If you want a rule change and see who wants to go on record to go down in the annals of history of destroying the soul of the Senate, basically democracy as we know it, participation from the minority along with the majority, then have a 60 vote, 67 vote threshold to change the rules and see who wants to vote then. But you don't hear one Democrat talking about getting rid of the filibuster now and just what, two years ago, 30, 33, I mean, not 33, 48. Wanted to get rid of it. That's what we're dealing with, Chris. Makes no sense. It's basically been there for over 200 years. It served us well. We must become the most dependable, predictable country. We had stability. We had the reserve currency of the world. This is ours because that basically we're a safe haven and we've been able to be a world leader and a world power because of our sustainability and predictability. And you get, you're going to give all that away. So for the sake of politics right now, just throw caution to the wind and let her rip.

[Chris Cuomo]

Well, the strongest counter to that is, yeah, Trump doesn't want that. So Thune won't do it. He wants to get rid of the filibuster. And as we're seeing right now with the shutdown, what he wants wins. So how do you deal with that?

[Joe Manchin]

Well, they're going to have to. My Republican, my Republican Senate colleagues and friends are going to have to say, first of all, we have to start doing our job. Enough is enough. The bottom line is the president's going to have all the wishes, they all do. No matter who the president, Democrats or Republicans, once they become president, they think they have absolute power and they'll do anything they can to get it. I understand that governors seem to be the same way. We pushed a limit, you know, but then you have to say, wait a minute, there's a fine line. You've crossed it now. We can't cross that. But this president has a little stronger Constitution and he has people supporting him. So he's going to push it further. Someone has to say, I'm sorry, we're basically, the president is not my boss. You don't work for the president. The president didn't hire you or fire you. He can't fire you. Only the people of your State that you represent and you only take a note of the Constitution to defend and protect the Constitution. Just do your job. And you're saying, well, that pressure is going to come. They have to cave to that. I don't think they can look themselves in the mirror at night and basically say, listen, I flipped on that because it was easier than fighting the establishment or the strength of a very strong armed president. And I think if President Trump ever been in the Senate, I guarantee you he would not be for getting rid of the filibuster if he had ever served in the minority. Here's the other thing. You know, most of the rank and file senators, unless you're in leadership and unless you're the majority leader or minority leader, it doesn't really matter. You know, why you could always be involved. You were always being considered and you were always being asked to come to a meeting to see if we can find a pathway forward. So you always had input. So, I mean, everybody else from leadership was all stoked up about, oh, I'm not. I want to be in the leadership, I want to be the majority, I want to be the chairman, I want to be this, I want to be that. I always felt it didn't bother me that much whether I'm in a majority or in the minority. I still had the rights of a senator to participate. That will all be gone. That'll all be gone. But they need to start acting what the rules are and basically what their positions are. The Senate is the most powerful legislative body in the world. United States Senate, 100 of them. And they all have extreme amount of power. But, you know, our Founding Fathers thought they would use it in a tempered way and with the quorum and civility and, let's see.

[Chris Cuomo]

But that's what, that's, that's what's changed. The Founding Fathers were a little worried about, but probably did not envision the, the degree to which this would be just become a zero sum situation. I mean, I think that's, that's what's changed culturally here is that it's really just about which side is worse, especially with the Trump administration and he has so much power over the party. So let me ask you this one. In Iran, the president calls you up and says, joe, I'm a little stuck on this. What are my next three moves?

[Joe Manchin]

Well, you're a little stuck on this. You better make sure you have a deal with the Gulf states, because the end game is this. We can't stay there and run the place. We can't oversee their Governor, we can help them clean up their neighborhood and it needs to be cleaned up. So I don't fault him for doing what he has done as far as trying to basically eliminate their mass stockpiles of weapons. And they have more than what we anticipated because you can't say on one side we got rid of everything and they're still firing missiles. So we didn't get rid of everything and the will to fight for them. It's an ideology. It's not a movement, it's an ideology. You're not going to eliminate that with a war or killing mass amounts of the irg that's going to continue. But unless you have, first of all, we should not be putting any boots on the ground in no way, shape or form because you have Israel there, that's in their backyard. Israel is very good strategically going in. If there is enriched uranium and we need to eliminate that and make sure it's gone, then they can do it and do it very, very efficiently. And next of all, if the Arab countries, if basically the Gulf states, whether it be the Saudis Emirates, the Bahrainians and the Tataris, they have to get their act together and say we're going to basically clean up this part of the world so we can prosper and grow. That's what they're wanting. If you've been over there, they have some most unbelievable buildings, most unbelievable cities. They want to be. They want to be a Mecca for investments and finance, and they want to be a tourism destination. You can't be that with war in your backyard. They have more to gain and more to lose, and they're the only ones. You're not going to take a gentile country like the United States or take a Jewish country such as Israel and say we're going to oversee and put this back into order. You're going to have to have a Muslim country and the Arabs moving in there and basically putting some structure to it. Now, if he hasn't done that, then you're going to escape any way you possibly can. And right now, treating a lot of our allies the way they've been, feel like they've been treated, they're not in a hurry to come help us. And if you think you're going to gouge them into helping, they'll come reluctantly and they'll leave as quick as they came. So they're not going to keep their straits open. They're not going to spend resources there unless they know that there's going to be some relief other places. So that means we're going to have to get back to a civil operation with our Western allies, and we don't have that right now.

[Chris Cuomo]

Do you think that this was about pivoting away from the domestic agenda and distracting from Epstein and affordability?

[Joe Manchin]

You know, he's been, he's been a master at being able to deflect. I would tell you that. I think that his training over the years and word he's able to read that other people haven't seen, you have to give him credit for that. And President Trump has been able to say, okay, if I can do this by those threes out there, three, two, three, three things at one time out there, they're not going to be able to catch the one I really want. And, you know, that's been a master. But I think people pretty much have caught on to that now.

[Chris Cuomo]

Is that your way of saying yes?

[Joe Manchin]

Well, I think that, yep, in a way that he's been able, that that's been his mode of operandi. That just didn't happen, Chris. He didn't come up with this. That's how he's always operated and he won't. You know, I got to give the guy credit from this. When you meet with him, he wants to do something, whether you like it or not, whether it's right or wrong, he wants to do something and you can meet with, I've had many, many meetings with him. I knew, okay, we're going to do this. And maybe I had some input, maybe I didn't. I tried. But I knew something was going to happen. And I told him when we park that two battle groups out there, something's going to happen. We don't send them just for picture.

[Chris Cuomo]

That's absolutely, that's absolutely true and you were right. But so if, if all of his motives are so obvious, if he's flooding the zone, if he can't really deliver on a lot of things, how come Democrats don't seem to be taking advantage of the opportunities, of how obviously lacking the administration is?

[Joe Manchin]

Democrats can't get off the social agenda. That's the problem. Get out of people's lives, get out of their bedrooms, get out of their homes, leave them alone, let them live their life. We have to guarantee that everyone has the pursuit of happiness. I just don't have to agree with you, but I'm going to defend you. If you want to be who you want to be, whether she's transgender, whether it's lbgt, whatever, that's fine. I'm going to make sure you're able to have the best quality of life that you can enjoy. That's my responsibility. I take an oath for that. Just don't make it look like I'm wrong. And basically that's part of your agenda, political agenda, that's what's turned American people off. And next of all make sure that we have work ethic put back in the system. And I've said this, you know, you better figure out how you lost Democrats like me and a lot of Democrats because right now the largest growing population of parties, people are participating in party participation. There's no party affiliation. You know, about 45 to 50% people registered as independents. And they should be concerned about that, but they're not because they have total control. They control the primaries, how you get elected, who they, who they can target. They want fewer people voting now because they can control fewer votes. All this has to be changed. But Democrats don't have any grounds to stand on. Can a Democrat right now in Washington tell you we've got to get our financial house in order. We cannot withstand $39 trillion of debt. We put another trillion dollars of debt in the last five months. That is unsustainable, it's unconscionable and it's criminal what we're doing to our children. And look at the next generation of children now are thinking why am I paying all this and paying into FICA and everything else when there's not going to be a Social Security and will Medicare still be around? Can't we fix some things? And Democrats are not getting to the point. They're so involved. And I've said this in West Virginia, I can tell you the workers in West Virginia switched faster than most any state from a Democratic state, 1,000%, a very blue state, to a ruby red state in a 10 year period. And they did it. And I said here's one of the big problems you have. They believe that Washington Democrats are more concerned and spend more time resources on people who are able bodied, capable of working, that don't work or won't work than those who are out there still trying to make it. That's what pisses them off.

[Chris Cuomo]

Joe, don't you have a book out about this that people can read?

[Joe Manchin]

Dead center buddy. There it is in the middle.

[Chris Cuomo]

Book is called Dead center by Senator Joe Manchin. You're always welcome here to make the case. I appreciate you calling early in the morning. I appreciate you coming on at News Nation. You're always welcome wherever I am and I hope you get back into the leadership game.

[Joe Manchin]

Let me tell you where I am right now? I'm in your hometown of Albany.

[Chris Cuomo]

Oh, really? What are you doing up there? You buying property?

[Joe Manchin]

I'm up here. No, I'm speaking to the book club up here you have in your university. And I spoke to them last night. They're great people and they told me all the stories. I've seen all your watering holes. I've heard all your stories about playing ball. I've heard it all, brother. So now when we get together.

[Chris Cuomo]

I was arrested twice. One of them was bogus. Okay? One of the arrests was bogus. You won't find either in my record. So whatever they're saying has to be questioned, okay?

[Joe Manchin]

They all love you, buddy. They still love you, Joe.

[Chris Cuomo]

Take care of yourself. I'll talk to you soon.

[Joe Manchin]

Thank you for having me.

[Chris Cuomo]

Thank you for the insight. Dead center is the book. Senator Joe Manchin. Phil, keep the filibuster. And remember the spirit of Easter, rebirth and renewal. We can always get to a better place. Take care, Senator.

[Ryan Zinke]

You got.

[Joe Manchin]

Thank you, my friend.

[Chris Cuomo]

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[John from New Jersey]

Hey, Chris, thanks for taking the call. The other day, Forbes magazine had a. Had an article that the United States government is insolvent. Can you explain to the audience what that means?

[Chris Cuomo]

It means that we owe more than we're taking in now. Is that true? No. But we are allowing our debt to run away in a way that is going to create borrowing stress and obviously a lot of political stress. Because, you know, the people who are buying up the debt are starting to consolidate. You have Far east and near east consortiums that are collecting American paper. China has a lot of American paper. What does that give you? Leverage. So are we broke? No. In some ways America is very robust. I mean the president rightly put out some brag data the other day, which was also true under the Biden administration. It's even more true now, which is that America's never been as energy independent as it is right now. It's never made the oil that it's made. Right now America makes more oil than opec. Did you know that? So John, what is your take on the insolvency? Why does it matter to you and what do you want to happen?

[John from New Jersey]

Well, it seems like we're spending, you know, billions of dollars on wars and you know, we are repeating Vietnam again and we don't. If the Republican Party will not allow any type of increase to offset the debt and the tariffs didn't work, what does the next generation get other than more debt out of the policies that the president is implementing?

[Chris Cuomo]

Well, look, here's here and one more follow question for you. Does it matter? The debt has been a problem. People have been offering things. Nothing gets done. Does it really matter if Trump addresses the debt?

[John from New Jersey]

Not to again. Not if you listen on if you're, if you support him.

[Joe Manchin]

No it doesn't.

[John from New Jersey]

And this is what's happened every, every president, every Republican, Democrat. But since, you know, Bill Clinton and then new made the contract for America and there was a budget surplus when George Bush took office the junior then we've just made that debt worse. And it's not we don't have the ability to pay it back and do presidents.

[Chris Cuomo]

It used to be Reagan had the record for adding to the deficit because look, let's be honest, tax cuts for the rich that will trickle down to everybody else. That's what they used to call it. Trickle down economics has never worked.

[John from New Jersey]

The original big lie.

[Chris Cuomo]

Yeah. Has never worked. And Reagan did it and it ballooned the deficit. Then we had the dot com bubble and Clinton and the administration was overwhelmed with cash and they used it to pay down the debt and they got the deficit literally balanced. But they had a, you know, huge surplus of revenues coming in. And then the two presidents to take it to new levels were and I give them both the same excuse, the pandemic. Trump spent more money than anyone ever and then Biden beat his record and both of them were spurred by the pandemic. But make no mistake, Presidents like to spend money. Governments like to spend money. Why wins votes Wins votes. Okay, we gotta jump to break. All right, I don't wanna, by the way, just let me go to break. Just real quick. Do I have a reader? So look, here's why we're technically insolvent. Why? Because we have more unfunded liabilities. Okay? What is unfunded liability? It's kind of redundant. It means that it means the same thing both times. It means you, you owe this money. We have like 47, almost 48 trillion in liabilities against a 6 trillion in assets. So you have a 41 or whatever net, you know, deficit. So you're technically legally insolvent. But America is different than you. You know why? It can print money and that's why we keep going. And that's why the value of the currency and everything gets a lot of stress, okay? What doesn't need stress is the fundamental proposition of our democracy which I believe is embedded in the first amendment. And it's not just about press or redress or protest. It's the separation of church and state. What we call the establishment clause really establishes the framework of our democracy which is that church and state must be separate. And that is a fundamental of freedom. Why? Because we are not directed by dogs dogma. We're directed by our true religion, which is what the constitution and the laws thereof. Ffrf, the Freedom from Religion foundation fights for that premise and to keep it that way. They're not anti religion, they're pro freedom. Check them out. FFRF us or text Chris to 511-511-WHO fights to bring the lawsuits, to fight for policy, to lobby to keep our government, our agencies, our culture of politics secular. Time to break. Adam in Arizona, are you on the phone?

[Caller - Political Consultant from Arizona]

I am finally on the phone, Chris.

[Chris Cuomo]

All right, now let's see what was so important. What do you got?

[Caller - Political Consultant from Arizona]

I. I know and first of all, when I heard that Mr. Positive sharing a thought. I nearly died a few times last year. I was one minute I was healthy, next minute I'm waking up told I was in the OR about to die. So when you mentioned about warriors and pursuing your dreams, that's exactly what I did when I took away from that near death experience. So Delphi loved that message there. So with on that note, I'm a political consultant doing it right now for Dana Gutierrez running in Arizona Southern Christian district helping out Juan says mine in CD6. So I got involved in the very things I'm passionate about.

[Chris Cuomo]

So first of all, good for you. Good for you. Before you ask me something, let me ask you something. First of All. Thank God you're okay, and thank God you're making the most of it. Good for you. Second, are these blue districts within Arizona or do you think they're going to be turned? What's the chance?

[Joe Manchin]

Good.

[Caller - Political Consultant from Arizona]

Very good question. So CPI has seven congressional districts at the D plus 13 and CD6 is even. And what I believe right now is you got to start with the margins, right? You start cracking at it, you make it single digits. It's a strategy. Once you do that, you get the other party to start investing not only in what was otherwise state district, but then you have to do it in the other competitive districts. And Arizona has many. It's going to be 6, 7, 1. And when you stretch the other party thinner, then you can start talking about getting on the offensive and taking advantage of the other party spending money. So there's a lot of strategy into it. So to answer your question, it is very doable. Even in the B13, we've seen a lot of surprises from both parties that upset the other. And we've seen, you know, even districts. Juan says Kamani is the most bipartisan member of the Arizona delegation. And I think a lot of what he's doing is going to carry over the top. Both Daniel Butiers, who's running and won for reelection, both genuine donor people. They know how to talk to the individual person. So I've always, when I consult, that's always the advice is reach people on an individual level. You can go on stage and speak, but when you talk to somebody eye to eye, tell them how it is, they may not like everything you say, but they're gonna respect you and you know you're gonna get something done.

[Chris Cuomo]

Hmm, good analysis. What's your question?

[Caller - Political Consultant from Arizona]

Thank you, sir. So as a political science major. Oh, and by the way, I'm really good friends with Joe Walsh. So Joe says hi.

[Chris Cuomo]

Nice.

[Caller - Political Consultant from Arizona]

So, yeah, as a political science major, you know, we always toy around with like how to strengthen democracy and propose ideas that may or may not ever happen. Probably not because we need a constitutional amendment. But I've always been fascinated with the way that Nebraska and Maine award their electoral votes in presidential election. That is awarded by congressional district and not statewide. And so that's my always working thinking is that what is this? All 50 states operated like that. Of course, you got a few states that it's just the whole state because it's one member. But what if we did just like that nationwide? Would it force presidential candidates to actually go to what would be otherwise be a very safe Democrat, a Very safe Republican. And they actually had to go to these otherwise states, to those districts. And I think, thus my thinking is that it's not going to be the same states every four years. That gets all the attention. And all the other states don't matter because we already know where they're going to, how they're going to go. But by doing that forces presidents, candidates to go and their vice president nominees and all their surrogates to each state. And so more voices get heard and more attention really is given towards the people and what they view. So thoughts on that?

[Chris Cuomo]

I like it. But we both know why it doesn't happen. The players like to control the game and the players want the smallest pool of voters possible. Now, insurgent candidates don't want to do that. They want to expand the map so that they can break the power structure because they're at a disadvantage systemically, endemically. But the reason that we see most of what's going on in politics is because the one thing that the two parties agree on is that they want to make it as easy as possible to acquire and retain power. And that's why it won't happen. That's why I keep saying, see the game. The only way we beat this is to destroy the two party system. It's not in our constitution. It's a mere tradition. That's what the Supreme Court called it. And it is stifling us. It's suffocating us. But that's why your idea is a good one. And that's why it won't happen. Kara in Michigan. Hey Chris.

[Kara from Michigan]

I've been on hold for 28 minutes stewing about some comments that Ryan Zinke made. I am beyond, beyond, beyond frustrated with Republicans like him getting out there, trying to air quote, sell this war to us of how evil the Iranians are. Yes, we know this is an evil regime. We have been fighting this regime for years and years and years. But hold on a second. You're trying to sell us by telling us that there is rape happening of women before they, before they're put to their death. That's so evil. Hold on. We need to look no further than our own backyard. Like the calls coming from inside the house clutching your pearls and how we should be all so horrified by these Iranian actions. Let us look no further than the Epstein files. Let us look that we have misogynist rapists, serial serial cheaters, pedophiles in our own house. Let's start there. Ryan Zinke has never spoken out against the Epstein files. He has Never spoken out against the pedophilia and the sex trafficking and the horrific treatment of women for years by this Epstein class. Speak out against that, then maybe I'll listen to you about how evil Irane is.

[Chris Cuomo]

Listen, I don't think you're wrong to be pissed off. I think there was a real heartbreak for people like you. I'm not even saying women like you. Because, you know, it's not just women that care about these things. Epstein was hyped up, in my opinion. But there was a very straight reveal promise made, and it was not delivered on. Now, they'll say they did, but we both know they didn't. And we know why they didn't. Now, I don't believe there is this client list and all this other stuff, but what there is is a bunch of people who have the privilege in society of power and position that knew this guy was a scumbag and either were scummy with him or did business with him despite being scummy. And I think the way to do it is to follow the money. And the money will reveal the people who were behind the perfidy. And you're right to be pissed off. Stay that way. Just be open to people doing better and reward the people that are asking the questions and taking the positions that you value. Kara. Don't just get sucked up into the negativity. Demand better. Thank you for calling in, guys. Have a great weekend. All right, I'll see you on Monday. Let's get after it. The best measure of where we are as a society is hearing from other members of that society in conversation. That has some cogency to it, some intelligence, not just, what do you think about Greenland? It's not about provocation, okay? It's about conversation. That's what we're getting after here on the YouTube channel for the Chris Cuomo project on News Nation, where I'm doing my Cable show, and SiriusXM POTUS, channel 124 for Cuomo in the mornings. Bon appetit.